British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Winch-control:
I must respectfully disagree with your statement that Unions have no place in today's world.
The issue, as I see it, is a union recognizing times have changed, business practices have changed and be able to adjust to the new dynamics.
BA Cabin Crew should have reasonable, professional and businesslike representation to advocate their concerns and position. Unfortunately, that is not what they have at present.
I must respectfully disagree with your statement that Unions have no place in today's world.
The issue, as I see it, is a union recognizing times have changed, business practices have changed and be able to adjust to the new dynamics.
BA Cabin Crew should have reasonable, professional and businesslike representation to advocate their concerns and position. Unfortunately, that is not what they have at present.
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As you quite rightly say, the issue is with the unions accepting that life has moved on.
Unions per se have have no place to play in terms of negotiation in todays society.
It remains, at the end of the day, the fact that the market rate will determine the product.
The market rate (at present) for cabin crew is low, therefore, it is a 'buyers' market. Unions cannot influence this.
Unions per se have have no place to play in terms of negotiation in todays society.
It remains, at the end of the day, the fact that the market rate will determine the product.
The market rate (at present) for cabin crew is low, therefore, it is a 'buyers' market. Unions cannot influence this.
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Fom previous posts it would appear at least 260 CC are immediately available for employment..hmm I guess they will accept Terms and conditions for 'New Fleet" at the drop of a hat! Going rate plus 10 per cent! and BA still dont know what they are doing????
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Aviation is a very harsh trading environment
As we know, BA is a legacy airline and despite the post 1997 cabin crew contract there are a significant number (30%+) of cabin crew on pre-1997 crew contracts which coupled with the demographic of the workforce and some complex terms and conditions do not make for cabin crew costs to be in the lower end of the market.
It is not possible to determine the exact headcount of British Airways Cabin Crew. The physical count is agreed around the 12000+ but embedded in that is a mix of full time, 75%, 50% and 33% contracts. What the equivalent full time workforce stands at can only be estimated and someone may have a figure.
There is much comment about the lack of trust in British Airways and to that I would direct you to the new contract in 1997 and ask how many pre-1997 contract holders have had their contracts directly degraded as a result, the answer is none, British Airways has continued to honour pre-1997 contracts.
During the intervening time there have been numerous heavily subscribed part time lists, compulsory part time contracts for returning mothers and other initiatives including voluntary redundancy packages. Many pre-1997 contract holders have decided to reduce their working commitment and every one goes some way to lowering the cost base.
There are strong suggestions from BASSA that crew complement be restored either partially of fully to pre-Nov 2009 levels and their first call would be part time crew being allowed to increase their percentage working as their circumstances have changed. BA have made it abundantly clear that there will be no increase in part time working contracts. BA have patiently offered part time working over the 13 years and attracted legacy contract holders to apply and it has always been over subscribed, it is totally unreasonable to expect BA to give it all back and increase legacy contracts.
All of us are keen to get the best deal on whatever we buy, be it insurance, consumer items, food, the list is endless and that has driven prices down and markets are very competitive. Why is it such a surprise to a certain group of employees that the travelling public also searches for the best deal when they travel by air which has resulted in a very very competitive travel industry?
It is to the credit of British Airways that they have not already sought more draconian measures and driven crew costs down to the more accepted market level. It does come as quite a shock to employees when a previously benevolent employer decides to call a halt to the generous historic terms and conditions and introduces a hint of reality and reference to the actual market that they are trading in. The reality for any trading organisation is that you either adapt or flounder in today's trading environment.
We have all done in a quiet moment. Ask yourself what you could realistically earn if you lost your current job. Apart from the fact that there currently aren't many real jobs out there to be had, the answer is probably very sobering.
It is not possible to determine the exact headcount of British Airways Cabin Crew. The physical count is agreed around the 12000+ but embedded in that is a mix of full time, 75%, 50% and 33% contracts. What the equivalent full time workforce stands at can only be estimated and someone may have a figure.
There is much comment about the lack of trust in British Airways and to that I would direct you to the new contract in 1997 and ask how many pre-1997 contract holders have had their contracts directly degraded as a result, the answer is none, British Airways has continued to honour pre-1997 contracts.
During the intervening time there have been numerous heavily subscribed part time lists, compulsory part time contracts for returning mothers and other initiatives including voluntary redundancy packages. Many pre-1997 contract holders have decided to reduce their working commitment and every one goes some way to lowering the cost base.
There are strong suggestions from BASSA that crew complement be restored either partially of fully to pre-Nov 2009 levels and their first call would be part time crew being allowed to increase their percentage working as their circumstances have changed. BA have made it abundantly clear that there will be no increase in part time working contracts. BA have patiently offered part time working over the 13 years and attracted legacy contract holders to apply and it has always been over subscribed, it is totally unreasonable to expect BA to give it all back and increase legacy contracts.
All of us are keen to get the best deal on whatever we buy, be it insurance, consumer items, food, the list is endless and that has driven prices down and markets are very competitive. Why is it such a surprise to a certain group of employees that the travelling public also searches for the best deal when they travel by air which has resulted in a very very competitive travel industry?
It is to the credit of British Airways that they have not already sought more draconian measures and driven crew costs down to the more accepted market level. It does come as quite a shock to employees when a previously benevolent employer decides to call a halt to the generous historic terms and conditions and introduces a hint of reality and reference to the actual market that they are trading in. The reality for any trading organisation is that you either adapt or flounder in today's trading environment.
We have all done in a quiet moment. Ask yourself what you could realistically earn if you lost your current job. Apart from the fact that there currently aren't many real jobs out there to be had, the answer is probably very sobering.
Sky now changed its mind and reporting talks continue
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No more mucking about rime for BASSA to flex it's muscles and pull the trigger out we go for 10 days at least.
I'm sure BASSA are flexing at least one muscle - or at least, it will be twitching
Quite possibly not the ones you are hoping for WWW 
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Unite/bassa are are a complete inept bunch of morons, there is no no saving grace for them.
BA, well finally they have woken up to the fact that the unions have no power, good grief that was painfull!
and finally they realise they can amploy CC at half the present cost!
Why o why did this take over a year !
BA, well finally they have woken up to the fact that the unions have no power, good grief that was painfull!
and finally they realise they can amploy CC at half the present cost!
Why o why did this take over a year !
Diplome
I think you are missing the irony in Big Brutha's post.
Andyismyname
"To save face allows a strike again in a year or two"...yep, at the end of all this the CEO has to convince the City and the majority of the BA workforce that:
1. The Cabin Crew community have achieved their cost saving target.
and that
2. The threat of IA from the Cabin Crew Union(s) every couple of years is removed.
Anything else would be failure.
Andyismyname
"To save face allows a strike again in a year or two"...yep, at the end of all this the CEO has to convince the City and the majority of the BA workforce that:
1. The Cabin Crew community have achieved their cost saving target.
and that
2. The threat of IA from the Cabin Crew Union(s) every couple of years is removed.
Anything else would be failure.
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wiggy:
I believe you are correct.
My apologies Big Brutha...and there is a part of me that shares your sentiment and truly would like to see a strike just to observe the results.
I believe you are correct.
My apologies Big Brutha...and there is a part of me that shares your sentiment and truly would like to see a strike just to observe the results.
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There will be no, nor should there be, any union involvment in BA in the future, it should be a company allowed to run its course at market forces.
Just because BA CC are pressumed to take a reduction in pay is neither here nor there.
Bottom line.. the dollar...
Just because BA CC are pressumed to take a reduction in pay is neither here nor there.
Bottom line.. the dollar...
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winch wrote:
BA have always honoured existing contracts and no reason to believe that will change.
The high street is a shadow of it's former self, indeed virtually all of us food shop at Tesco/Sainsbury etc , consumer appliances from Comet/PC World etc, insurance from the now famous Meerkat site instead of your local insurance broker. The high street is dead for the legacy traders that used to frequent it and the aviation industry is no different.
Airlines have changed and there is no way whatsoever that BA can continue paying significantly above the market rate. It can honour existing contracts and I am sure it will but the economics are clear, if you hope to compete in this market you have to cut costs wherever you can. The market rate + 10% is certainly going to attract the required applicants, indeed most UK applicants will probably have a degree, and that salary level will help to spread the recruitment net to Europe given the dire value of the £ against the Euro.
Take a look at the Terms of Endearment on this site and you will see young men and women are borrowing up to £100k to get themselves into the right seat of a A320 at easyJet on a seasonal deal. That is the current "market rate" for new jet aircrew in the UK so it confirms that market rate is the level at which a suitable applicant will do the job for..
So at the end of the day, the going rate for BA CC is....the going rate..! Not 59k not 29k. but 12k.....same as every other airline!
The high street is a shadow of it's former self, indeed virtually all of us food shop at Tesco/Sainsbury etc , consumer appliances from Comet/PC World etc, insurance from the now famous Meerkat site instead of your local insurance broker. The high street is dead for the legacy traders that used to frequent it and the aviation industry is no different.
Airlines have changed and there is no way whatsoever that BA can continue paying significantly above the market rate. It can honour existing contracts and I am sure it will but the economics are clear, if you hope to compete in this market you have to cut costs wherever you can. The market rate + 10% is certainly going to attract the required applicants, indeed most UK applicants will probably have a degree, and that salary level will help to spread the recruitment net to Europe given the dire value of the £ against the Euro.
Take a look at the Terms of Endearment on this site and you will see young men and women are borrowing up to £100k to get themselves into the right seat of a A320 at easyJet on a seasonal deal. That is the current "market rate" for new jet aircrew in the UK so it confirms that market rate is the level at which a suitable applicant will do the job for..