British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[Entaxei]

Oh well done Tiramisu - a shot clear down the middle straight through the deliberate twisting of facts by BASSA - clean bowled.

In the mean time and thinking about various aspects of these discussions, it occurs to me that calling the source of your income "Self Loading Freight", is derogatary and, potentially downgrading the importance of your passengers in the minds of BA workers and the manner in which some may deal with problems or complaints.

The phrase is one that is very clever, in keeping with todays culture and brings a wry smile to the face, but is almost akin to saying 'throw your wallet in the basket as you board, we'll give you the residue when you get off'. All of which helps the union view that passengers have nothing to do with the reality of squeezing the last drop out of the orange.

I'm interested to hear your view from the action end.

Cheers Entaxei (Pax).

[Litebulbs]

What BASSA facts that are twisted are you talking about?

[Desertia]

There seems to be some confusion here as to the reason for Walsh wanting to cut costs. I do not believe that it was just about a temporary financial crisis, that was BASSA's elementary mistake.

In order to compete in the future in ANY market, whether it be in the cheap seats or the front cabins, BA have to cut costs to match their rivals. To make further cost savings, they have to look at replacing the flying dinosaurs they have now with modern airframes such as the Dreamliner and new airbuses. They also have to fund a massive pension deficit which is as much a function of changing demographics as anything else.

They have to slash costs now before they can consider doing any of those things. Of course, if they succeed, then things will eventually be rosy again (notwithstanding that oil price which will escalate again, and how predictably we don't know).

BASSA are making it hard on themselves and their members, when they could have played ball and asked for their share of the proceeds when things recover - but by stamping their feet and having childish tantrums they have cocked up very badly indeed. Which is where the finger pointing and the blame games come in.

In the absence of any verifiable information on the court case, I can only quote Mr. Walsh from the FT:

In a sign of the tensions over the latest ballot, which closes on February 22, Mr Walsh said he did not believe the cabin crew's Unite union could come up with "credible savings" to replace those BA had generated, and insisted he would not replace the crew taken off aircraft. "We're very comfortable with the decision we've taken to reduce crew. There's no question it's the right thing to do."

A brave thing to say before the decision is announced, no? What does he have up his sleeve? Or does he just have a good idea what the judgement will be, win or lose?

[Tiramisu]

I still can't see why BA did not reduce the service on board and then reduce headcount. That would have been a simple redundancy situation, less work, less people. That is what makes me think it was all or nothing and it is as big a gamble for certain figureheads, as Unite's all out opposition.

Litebulbs,

That's exactly what BA did!
Hot Towels were removed in the summer, sandwiches removed in the autumn, and that's just from shorthaul flights alone!
It was and is a case of less work, less people and half full planes!

I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of BA.

[Tiramisu]

Desertia,
Welcome back, we missed you!

[flapsforty]

Entaxei, this forum is for professional cabin crew. People who actually work in the industry. As cabin crew.
The term Self Loading Freight has been part of industry vernacular for ever. It“s a term of endearment.
If that offends you, then I suggest that you redirect your browser to somewhere dedicated to ex-engineers or professional airline passengers.
Like our very own PPRuNe Passengers & SLF forum, set up just for you.

Do not presume to come here and lecture us on what we call you on our own forum.

[malcolmf]

And a 50% reduction in the Club chocolates
One problem is that perhaps we have too many part timers in CC now, such that they don't feel that their future is inexorably tied up in the success or otherwise of BA. A trip is seen by some as a chance to get away from the kids and a trip to Pottery Barn. If that was all you had to lose it makes a Yes vote more understandable.

[617sqn]

Flapsforty
Beat me to it.Was just about to point out the SLF forum.

Malcolmf

I am part time.I like getting away etc etc but my job is still important.I need and want the money.
I am against a strike and have volunteered to come in on my part time block.

[Tiramisu]

And a 50% reduction in the Club chocolates

Oops, how could I forget that! Something I used to give my Flight Crew colleagues if there were any leftovers!

[malcolmf]

The sound of rattling chocolates is not good
617Sqn note the post edited to emphasise one word

[Beagle9]

Litebulbs
Just to add to what Tiramasu said in reply to you, regarding the fact that all the 1000, or so, cabin crew left voluntarily. They went voluntarily, with no bullying to do so by the Company, but, I know from talking to them, that some went because they were terrified of what the future held for them, from all of BASSAs scaremongering communication.

I hope it's not a decision they will regret.

[Tiramisu]

Their is no doubt a huge potential saving to be made within IFCE, just because a percentage of that group are very well paid and BA would rather have that money in its own pot, than the employees and I am sure their are some senior management jobs resting on that redistribution of wealth.

Litebulbs,
I'm not convinced that senior management jobs are resting on redistribution of wealth achieved through cost savings made in IFCE.

However, when that pot of money gets full, I'm sure BA will share that wealth with it's employees as it's historically done in the past.
BA has been and is an excellent employer. As Cabin Crew, we've enjoyed some of the best T's and C's in the industry and still do. For me it's time to give back to BA what it has given me all these years.
(Seriously, it's not asking for a lot.)

I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.

[Human Factor]

And a 50% reduction in the Club chocolates

Oops, how could I forget that! Something I used to give my Flight Crew colleagues if there were any leftovers!

They were much appreciated as well. However I now feel fitter (and thinner) than ever before. Wait a minute, the pension fund won't like you very much for that....

[ottergirl]

As a ground worker, and a member of Unite, said to me the other day -
"every other work group in BA have made savings and changed their working practices, except cabin crew! Why do they think they are so special?"
That from a ground worker!!

Sporran, we don't think we are special! In fact, BA have made it abundantly clear that we don't matter at all anymore and thats ok! (Nothing like knowing where you stand!). Historically a lot of money has been invested in persuading the crew through training that they are important as they are the eyes and ears of our customers and it takes a while to change such a heavily re-inforced concept. Many of my colleagues feel they are the guardians of the customer experience and its hard to let go of that. A couple more years of apologising should get us there though!

We just want to ensure that this is a level playing field and that IFCE are not being treated unfairly through some misguided attempt to break the unionisation and degrade our jobs. I suppose a mistrust of our management team is the main problem here which is why crew would like to see some sort of guarantee written into any agreement. It would be soul destroying to give up large tracts of current agreements only to have BA turn a 12% operating profit 2 years down the line at our expense. (We wish!) That being said, striking is not the way to achieve this.

Litebulbs

I still can't see why BA did not reduce the service on board and then reduce headcount.

Exactly so, why didn't they? On Eurofleet they did and actually, since the customer offering has been so reduced, we can manage quite well with the new crewing levels. Long-haul service is still the same as far as I know which either implies BA thought there was a lot of slack or couldn't see a way to further reduce the offering and yet remain competitive. I haven't travelled as SLF for some time so can't comment either way.

And a 50% reduction in the Club chocolates

Bit more than 50% I fear. 100% in some cases. And as for those strange skinny blue squares.....! Bring back Lily O'Briens I say. Strange stuff appearing in the name of costcutting. It seems that the stewards trousers have had their belt loops reduced from 5 to 3! How much could that have saved I wonder?

BA Cabin crew and these thoughts are my own.

[Human Factor]

It would be soul destroying to give up large tracts of current agreements only to have BA turn a 12% operating profit 2 years down the line at our expense. (We wish!) That being said, striking is not the way to achieve this.

Which is why flight crew have a share deal built in. Admittedly, it won't cover the losses but the principle for us now exists that we will share in the good fortune should BA recover economically. This option was also previously on the table for BASSA and would probably have remained there had they been prepared to negotiate. Ah, there's that word again.

[ottergirl]

Spot on Human Factor, there's a moral to this story. If you want excellent customer service delivered, get yourself some cabin crew; if you want negotiating done, get yourself a trained negotiator!

[Tiramisu]

if you want negotiating done, get yourself a trained negotiator!

Ottergirl,
I take it that what you're trying to say is, BASSA reps aren't trained to negotiate?

[The Blu Riband]

NO NO NO NO we will not re-start the discussion on the pilots“ deal!
f40
moderator


Nor do repeated sly references to management pay have any relevance; as , for example, Willlie's pay is well below average for a FTSE100 company.

Why do crew / Bassa not even discuss cost saving options. And the Travel Payment for example? By offering their "£150m" they have tacitly agreed the need to make the savings anyway. They must realise that eventually, one way or another, the cost savings will be found. Do they believe that they could get away scot free????

[strikemaster82]

If you want excellent customer service delivered, get yourself some cabin crew; if you want negotiating done, get yourself a trained negotiator!

If you want a kitchen fitted, get yourself a BASSA rep?

[ottergirl]

Tiramisu
Maybe what I am saying is that the skill-set one needs for cabin crew may not be the same skill-set that one needs to be a negotiator. While you and I negotiate everyday on the aircraft with our customers, I'm not sure I'd want to go head-to-head with some of BA's legal team. A winning smile, flexibillity and eagerness to please are probably not on their job description!
Ottergirl