British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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We travelling public
Oh yes, we're still here, watching as the moderate, hard working loyal BA employees regain control of the company from the militant grasp of Bassa & its cohorts.
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thought for the day
If B.A. want "other" Cabin Crew to "help out" during this (potential) "disruption" why don't they email the easyJet Gals and Guys, they would be up for it in a flash, and boy are they well trained, makes you realise how pathetic braincrank was ( is) Tennis in Singapore, suit you sir, beats the crew room at LGW and working max. hours/sectors all the time, oh and it might give eJ food for thought.
Don't mean it really, and then there's errrrrrrr well lots of other crew maybe at well somewhere in Essex
Don't mean it really, and then there's errrrrrrr well lots of other crew maybe at well somewhere in Essex
First BA longhaul of this year scheduled for March - greatly looking forward to willing, cheery service from well-qualified cabin crew - captains, engineers, FOs, SFOs...you know, the kind of people whose training demands years of disciplined application. If nothing else, the repartee should be improved.
iwalkedaway (and - most of the time - never regretted it)
iwalkedaway (and - most of the time - never regretted it)
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Would you strike indefinitely?
Interesting reading at another forum.
People are being asked if they would strike indefinitely. Everyone, except two or three with the argument that they could not afford it, are saying that they would and worry about money later.
Out of many replies there is a particulary shocking one:
"Hey, does Dolly Parton sleep on her back??!!! You bet Ron Jeremy's fat hairy a**e I would stay out, the longer the better!!!!"
I hope all of them get sacked.
People are being asked if they would strike indefinitely. Everyone, except two or three with the argument that they could not afford it, are saying that they would and worry about money later.
Out of many replies there is a particulary shocking one:
"Hey, does Dolly Parton sleep on her back??!!! You bet Ron Jeremy's fat hairy a**e I would stay out, the longer the better!!!!"
I hope all of them get sacked.
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would stay out, the longer the better!!!!
The difference between them will shortly become clear when they have no pay and no job.
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End Game
Pure speculation but...
BA win court case and pursue unite for costs of proposed IA
Unite confronted with BA legal action & numerous bassa procedural errors act as before and sell out bassa including the BA demand for a no strike clause.
Bassa walk away blaming unite for pulling the rug from beneath them. Again.
BA continue to train volunteers but now with the strike threat removed can recruit “new” crew from outside BA.
BA SOSR the crew with 90 days change of contract knowing bassa unable to call for the third strike and keeping their promise to the rest of BA that the costs of any IA will be recovered from the group involved.
So before this happens how can it be prevented? Sounds like a very high price for the CSD serving the passengers.
BA win court case and pursue unite for costs of proposed IA
Unite confronted with BA legal action & numerous bassa procedural errors act as before and sell out bassa including the BA demand for a no strike clause.
Bassa walk away blaming unite for pulling the rug from beneath them. Again.
BA continue to train volunteers but now with the strike threat removed can recruit “new” crew from outside BA.
BA SOSR the crew with 90 days change of contract knowing bassa unable to call for the third strike and keeping their promise to the rest of BA that the costs of any IA will be recovered from the group involved.
So before this happens how can it be prevented? Sounds like a very high price for the CSD serving the passengers.
Round two
Its clear that BASSA and Unite have been out maneuvered, that any strike will quickly fold and the new contract will be implemented. However, i wonder if Willy will be content to stop there. My feeling is that he will not and would be interested in any ideas as to what his next move might be.
Whoever is advising him on the Employee Relations/HR side is not one of the best in this field, so it makes prediction more difficult. Quite clearly in their business situation, they cannot just "win" this episode, they need real, deep, complete change.
That means removing the poison that is BASSA and any BASSA reps as completely as possible/legal.
Normally to do that the top team would aim to claim the "moral high ground" with customers, staff and shareholders. Bassa have played in to their hands with the first strike call, and will also get the second strike call wrong.
What BA then need is for the other staff groups to be onside. If McCarthy has not yet been out for lots of food and wine with the BALPA shower, and the ex-Engineers in Unite, he should do so in short order.
Unite will be influenced to distance themsleves from Bassa, and then it will be a field day on the Bassa mafia. There will continue to be cross-over in to this dispute from the Unite elections. This will be a pain.
As I accurately predicted the outcome of the first strike call, (the legal issue) some months ago, I predict the above with some confidence. However, as Carnage and I have noted, BA have been moving more slowly than our crystal balls tell us.
That means removing the poison that is BASSA and any BASSA reps as completely as possible/legal.
Normally to do that the top team would aim to claim the "moral high ground" with customers, staff and shareholders. Bassa have played in to their hands with the first strike call, and will also get the second strike call wrong.
What BA then need is for the other staff groups to be onside. If McCarthy has not yet been out for lots of food and wine with the BALPA shower, and the ex-Engineers in Unite, he should do so in short order.
Unite will be influenced to distance themsleves from Bassa, and then it will be a field day on the Bassa mafia. There will continue to be cross-over in to this dispute from the Unite elections. This will be a pain.
As I accurately predicted the outcome of the first strike call, (the legal issue) some months ago, I predict the above with some confidence. However, as Carnage and I have noted, BA have been moving more slowly than our crystal balls tell us.
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Desperation
Latest from BASSA (in an email)
My bold.
Checked with people in the know and was allowed to look myself.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO SUCH LINK ON THE BALPA FORUM AND THE REPS THERE HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT THEY WILL NOT AND CAN NOT ENCOURAGE FLIGHT CREW TO VOLUNTEER.
So CRM and safety is further eroded for what? A downright lie and a cheap shot at another Union. No wonder so many of us will have nothing to do with BASSA. If people ARE volunteering (they are, in droves
) it's because BASSA and it's deluded members leave them a stark choice. Let BASSA destroy BA or make sure BASSA are defeated. With partners, kids, mortgages, food bills and jobs that they appreciate, is it any surprise that they've stepped up to the plate?
It seems everyone is against BASSA - CC89, non-union members, "plastic" CSD's, pilots, BALPA, UNITE, WW, all other departments within BA, The Judiciary, the travelling public.....
.....wait, that might actually be true.
Lurker, PiB etc - despite the misgivings of the CAA that are reported on the BASSA Forum, the truth is that the CAA HAVE approved the training of other employees in the CC roles. They will be closely observing next week (as they should be) but rest assured, unless there is an unequivocal official announcement from the CAA that they are blocking BA, then those employees have passed SEP and are qualified. I look forward to working alongside such motivated crew. Will make a pleasant change from some of our number.
It's a funny old world...
It wasn't so long ago that our pilot colleagues wanted our help.
They were organizing a ballot for strike action over their fears regarding
the introduction of "open skies" and the impact it could have on their
future prospects and earnings.
Our pilot colleagues were, quite rightly, concerned and felt very
confident of their moral high ground and balked at the audacity of British
Airways for daring to seek to undermine them by employing cheap labour
pilots, on inferior terms and conditions.
BA attempted to end their legitimate ballot by legal action, and their
threats prevailed.
Sound familiar?
How surprising then, as we face a battle for our own survival, that BALPA
has tacitly set up a facility on its website forum, for its own members to
actively volunteer to work as cabin crew to break our strike.
How thoughtful of them to repay our support. They can rest assured that
when their time comes, and it will, that we will be equally supportive.
Apologies to those pilot colleagues - and we know there are many - who
have a conscience and would never dream of doing such an underhand act,
but to those that choose to do so and those that requested it....
Have a good long hard look at yourself and remember how much our two
communities will suffer. Our Unions may not have always seen eye to eye
but at the end of the sector when push comes to shove (and doors go into
manual) crew will always "protect" pilots ...............
It wasn't so long ago that our pilot colleagues wanted our help.
They were organizing a ballot for strike action over their fears regarding
the introduction of "open skies" and the impact it could have on their
future prospects and earnings.
Our pilot colleagues were, quite rightly, concerned and felt very
confident of their moral high ground and balked at the audacity of British
Airways for daring to seek to undermine them by employing cheap labour
pilots, on inferior terms and conditions.
BA attempted to end their legitimate ballot by legal action, and their
threats prevailed.
Sound familiar?
How surprising then, as we face a battle for our own survival, that BALPA
has tacitly set up a facility on its website forum, for its own members to
actively volunteer to work as cabin crew to break our strike.
How thoughtful of them to repay our support. They can rest assured that
when their time comes, and it will, that we will be equally supportive.
Apologies to those pilot colleagues - and we know there are many - who
have a conscience and would never dream of doing such an underhand act,
but to those that choose to do so and those that requested it....
Have a good long hard look at yourself and remember how much our two
communities will suffer. Our Unions may not have always seen eye to eye
but at the end of the sector when push comes to shove (and doors go into
manual) crew will always "protect" pilots ...............
Checked with people in the know and was allowed to look myself.
THERE IS CATEGORICALLY NO SUCH LINK ON THE BALPA FORUM AND THE REPS THERE HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR THAT THEY WILL NOT AND CAN NOT ENCOURAGE FLIGHT CREW TO VOLUNTEER.
So CRM and safety is further eroded for what? A downright lie and a cheap shot at another Union. No wonder so many of us will have nothing to do with BASSA. If people ARE volunteering (they are, in droves
) it's because BASSA and it's deluded members leave them a stark choice. Let BASSA destroy BA or make sure BASSA are defeated. With partners, kids, mortgages, food bills and jobs that they appreciate, is it any surprise that they've stepped up to the plate?It seems everyone is against BASSA - CC89, non-union members, "plastic" CSD's, pilots, BALPA, UNITE, WW, all other departments within BA, The Judiciary, the travelling public.....
.....wait, that might actually be true.
Lurker, PiB etc - despite the misgivings of the CAA that are reported on the BASSA Forum, the truth is that the CAA HAVE approved the training of other employees in the CC roles. They will be closely observing next week (as they should be) but rest assured, unless there is an unequivocal official announcement from the CAA that they are blocking BA, then those employees have passed SEP and are qualified. I look forward to working alongside such motivated crew. Will make a pleasant change from some of our number.
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How thoughtful of them to repay our support. They can rest assured that
when their time comes, and it will, that we will be equally supportive.
when their time comes, and it will, that we will be equally supportive.
Openskies was based on the legal interpretation of 'Scope' not the assumption of the contractual viability of agreements. BASSA have never supported BALPA, more they have always sponged of the innate ability of BALPA to organise and negotiate. For example in the process of Pensions negotiations.
So, sorry if it doesn't phase the majority of pilots that BASSA have withdrawn their 'support'.
For the vast majority of professional Cabin Crew who operate our aircraft CRM will not be affected in the slightest as they have the ability to differentiate between on ground rhetoric and airborne required professionalism. If the BASSA tub thumpers have a problem with it then they will be off loaded.
It would seem that the rest of BA are behind the company as well:
There has been a fantastic first response from right across the airline
with every department volunteering to back BA since the intranet site was
launched on Monday.
Colleagues have once again proved they care about the airline’s customers.
It’s clear from the response that colleagues do not want to sit back and
watch Unite ruin this great airline.
with every department volunteering to back BA since the intranet site was
launched on Monday.
Colleagues have once again proved they care about the airline’s customers.
It’s clear from the response that colleagues do not want to sit back and
watch Unite ruin this great airline.
I wonder how long the 'back BA become a temporary pilot' training course would be?
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A downright lie and a cheap shot at another Union.
Another beauty from the self-promoting Len McCluskey: "Trying to grind skilled and professional employees and their organisation into the dirt is a short hop to catastrophe for BA."
He's absolutely right. Fortunately the ones BA are trying to grind into the dirt, along with their "organisation" (and I use the term loosely), I would not describe as either skilled or professional.
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He's absolutely right. Fortunately the ones BA are trying to grind into the dirt, along with their "organisation" (and I use the term loosely), I would not describe as either skilled or professional.
There are many, many very good, professional and loyal Cabin Crew who are, unfortunately, being led to destruction by a handful of idiots!
Last edited by wobble2plank; 22nd Jan 2010 at 09:54.
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I guess BA pilots aren't happy with what cabin crew want. I still don't understand why they want to increase their salary. They earn more than other airlines and virgin atlantic.
Similar to Virgin Blue, they also want to increase their salary - same as Qantas' salary.
Similar to Virgin Blue, they also want to increase their salary - same as Qantas' salary.
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There are many, many very good, professional and loyal Cabin Crew who are, unfortunately, being led to destruction by a handful of idiot!
Let me state now for the record that if BASSA decide to go on strike, I will purchase a BAH-LHR-BAH scheduled for the period of the strike simply to show my support to the airline and to the many decent cabin crew to whom you refer.
And if you need a hand on the trolley, I'd be happy to help out
Cheers.
D
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Mixed cabin crew
For those of you that are looking forward to working with or flying with volunteers from Engineering, Check In, Dispatch, and loading you may be disappointed.
The training requirements to bring these groups up to the required standard is 20 days. Quite a long period for what may be a possible short strike.
Former Cabin Crew and pilots need only a couple of days, so I would think they would be the priority.
Back to my spanners
The training requirements to bring these groups up to the required standard is 20 days. Quite a long period for what may be a possible short strike.
Former Cabin Crew and pilots need only a couple of days, so I would think they would be the priority.
Back to my spanners
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Statement from Jim McAuslan, General Secretary BALPA:
Statement from Jim McAuslan, General Secretary BALPA:
Last summer, and following a thorough review of the company’s finances, BALPA members recognised that major changes needed to be made to the company’s cost base. Other staff groups, including engineers, shared that view.
As a result pilots voted to contribute £26 million of annual savings to help the company survive and thrive and in return will have some equity in the company.
BALPA and the vast majority of its members have a very different analysis of the situation in BA to representatives of the cabin crew union. We recognise the frustration that must have prompted so many cabin crew members to vote for strike action last year, but BALPA members were stunned by the threat of a 12 day strike at Christmas.
BALPA is not in dispute with BA and if and when a strike is called by the cabin crew union we will issue guidance to our members to ensure they comply with the law and operate normally to fulfil their full range of duties.
We understand a number of pilots have responded to BA’s call for volunteers to keep the airline operating through any strike and from their postings it is clear that this is out of concern for their own futures and that of other employees. For the avoidance of doubt, BALPA’s position on this is neutral and we will not dictate to our members. Nevertheless the suggestion that BALPA has “tacitly set up a facility on its website forum, for its own members to actively volunteer to work as cabin crew to break our strike” is entirely false and I have written to Unite explaining this.
We will continue to highlight to both our own members, and to the leadership of other unions that, once any strike is settled, it will be important for good and safe operations for fellow employees whether they operate on the flight-deck or in the cabin, to work together.
BALPA still hopes that both sides can reach a negotiated settlement and if
there is any role we can play to help with this then we only need to be asked.
Last summer, and following a thorough review of the company’s finances, BALPA members recognised that major changes needed to be made to the company’s cost base. Other staff groups, including engineers, shared that view.
As a result pilots voted to contribute £26 million of annual savings to help the company survive and thrive and in return will have some equity in the company.
BALPA and the vast majority of its members have a very different analysis of the situation in BA to representatives of the cabin crew union. We recognise the frustration that must have prompted so many cabin crew members to vote for strike action last year, but BALPA members were stunned by the threat of a 12 day strike at Christmas.
BALPA is not in dispute with BA and if and when a strike is called by the cabin crew union we will issue guidance to our members to ensure they comply with the law and operate normally to fulfil their full range of duties.
We understand a number of pilots have responded to BA’s call for volunteers to keep the airline operating through any strike and from their postings it is clear that this is out of concern for their own futures and that of other employees. For the avoidance of doubt, BALPA’s position on this is neutral and we will not dictate to our members. Nevertheless the suggestion that BALPA has “tacitly set up a facility on its website forum, for its own members to actively volunteer to work as cabin crew to break our strike” is entirely false and I have written to Unite explaining this.
We will continue to highlight to both our own members, and to the leadership of other unions that, once any strike is settled, it will be important for good and safe operations for fellow employees whether they operate on the flight-deck or in the cabin, to work together.
BALPA still hopes that both sides can reach a negotiated settlement and if
there is any role we can play to help with this then we only need to be asked.
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And further repudiation of the outright lies from BASSA:
Lizanne,
This has become a regular complaint now. We have, in the past, tolerated snipes and snide remarks from your organisation but as the stakes are so high for you, and our employer, we must now play this completely by the book (and letter of the LAW).
YET AGAIN you have posted a completely false and potentially libelous statement about BALPA on your forum. I attach it below. We have never and will never put any link or other tacit support for Backing BA on our forum or elsewhere. In this dispute we remain neutral as an organisation, our Chairman Brendan O'Neal made that very clear the moment "Backing BA" was launched. Our members are at liberty to volunteer for the scheme if they so wish. We give no guidance or assistance if they choose to do this. This is in line with any other voluntary scheme BA have ever run. BALPA does not dictate actions to our members.
To correct another obvious error, we never asked for your "support" during the OpenSkies dispute with BA. I made several phone calls to Sean Beatty to brief him but never made an approach for assistance. BALPA as a whole did seek a Unite endorsement for our campaign at the TUC but that was downstream of our dispute. A handful of your members supported us on our march on 15th March but that numbered no more than half a dozen. There were of course many spouses and partners of our members that may well have also been members of your union- we did not log marchers' affiliation. It is however incorrect to say BALPA asked for support or indeed that any was given by BASSA either overtly or otherwise.
I ask you to consider the effect your communications may have on relations between our two communities. Our respective members work together in a very proximate and safety critical environment. Creating a divide and spreading false and inflammatory comments about our community and/or union will not help either side maintain a safe, dignified and professional atmosphere in the workplace. We must both do our utmost to preserve relations between our respective workgroups.
The above will be followed up by a letter from John Moore to Steve Turner. Once again, we request you remove or edit the offending article at the earliest opportunity and in any event by midday today (22nd Jan). We reserve our right to litigate if you fail to comply.
The above is all subject to disclosure due to your ongoing legal action with BA. I will also post it on our forum for our members for their information. You are free to do likewise.
xxxxxx xxxxxxx
British Airways Company Council
BALPA
This has become a regular complaint now. We have, in the past, tolerated snipes and snide remarks from your organisation but as the stakes are so high for you, and our employer, we must now play this completely by the book (and letter of the LAW).
YET AGAIN you have posted a completely false and potentially libelous statement about BALPA on your forum. I attach it below. We have never and will never put any link or other tacit support for Backing BA on our forum or elsewhere. In this dispute we remain neutral as an organisation, our Chairman Brendan O'Neal made that very clear the moment "Backing BA" was launched. Our members are at liberty to volunteer for the scheme if they so wish. We give no guidance or assistance if they choose to do this. This is in line with any other voluntary scheme BA have ever run. BALPA does not dictate actions to our members.
To correct another obvious error, we never asked for your "support" during the OpenSkies dispute with BA. I made several phone calls to Sean Beatty to brief him but never made an approach for assistance. BALPA as a whole did seek a Unite endorsement for our campaign at the TUC but that was downstream of our dispute. A handful of your members supported us on our march on 15th March but that numbered no more than half a dozen. There were of course many spouses and partners of our members that may well have also been members of your union- we did not log marchers' affiliation. It is however incorrect to say BALPA asked for support or indeed that any was given by BASSA either overtly or otherwise.
I ask you to consider the effect your communications may have on relations between our two communities. Our respective members work together in a very proximate and safety critical environment. Creating a divide and spreading false and inflammatory comments about our community and/or union will not help either side maintain a safe, dignified and professional atmosphere in the workplace. We must both do our utmost to preserve relations between our respective workgroups.
The above will be followed up by a letter from John Moore to Steve Turner. Once again, we request you remove or edit the offending article at the earliest opportunity and in any event by midday today (22nd Jan). We reserve our right to litigate if you fail to comply.
The above is all subject to disclosure due to your ongoing legal action with BA. I will also post it on our forum for our members for their information. You are free to do likewise.
xxxxxx xxxxxxx
British Airways Company Council
BALPA