British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[Desertia]

I have already stated that BASSA's proposal was extremely miscalculcated!

But you haven't admitted that:

(a) BA had BASSA's proposal properly reviewed - you essentially said that BA paid little or no attention to it. (A BASSA lie - they said BA "rejected it out of hand).

(c) BASSA keep claiming that the value of their offer was as high as 175 million, even though an independent audit told them its real value back in 1Q09. (Another BASSA lie).

I'm only asking you to stop repeating these two subsequent lies, not what you think of BASSA's initial "miscalculation".

Also, you commented:

BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time.

Perhaps if the idiots at BASSA had done some sensible negotiation in February 2009 and not acted like spoilt brats in the almost 12 months since, it wouldn't be a "very short time", would it?

I find BASSA's worries about the PCCC very amusing. It is just what cabin crew need: A group that supports cabin crew needs, not just those of the pampered few that run it.

Thank you.

[henkybaby]

So x-mass was ok, but Easter is not? Seems like admitting that the fun idea "12 days of x-mass" was a cock up...

http://www.unitetheunion.com/news

Press release

Unite rules out strike by BA cabin crew at Easter
20th January 2010

Unite will not call strikes at British Airways over the Easter holiday should further industrial action be sanctioned by the membership in the course of the dispute between BA cabin crew and the airline, the union said today (Wednesday).

Unite announced earlier this week that, since talks with the company have yet to produce a settlement to the dispute over crew levels and working conditions, it was to hold a fresh industrial action ballot of its approximately 12,000 BA cabin crew members. This ballot will open on January 25th and conclude on February 22nd.

Len McCluskey, the Unite assistant general secretary leading negotiations with the company, said: "It was never the intention of Unite and its BA cabin crew membership to call industrial action over Easter.

"I want to make it abundantly clear that, if industrial action receives the required mandate from the members and strike action is made necessary by continuing management intransigence, we will not call such action over the Easter holiday period. We are making this announcement now so families can plan their travel arrangements in confidence.

"It remains our hope that this dispute can be resolved through negotiation, without the need for strikes at any time at all. But this can only happen is BA management wake up and realise that treating their greatest asset - skilled and professional employees - as enemies is the road to ruin. You can't fly planes on management machismo."

[Desertia]

Commenting on today's judgement, Unite national officer for civil aviation Steve Turner, said: "BA's treatment of these women is disgraceful. There will be widespread revulsion that the national carrier - which flies the globe with this country's flag on its fin - has a policy of treating its overseas crew as second class citizens. Not only is it a waste of a talented and dedicated workforce to dismiss them at 45, it is immoral. This practice reflects very badly on BA as an employer, but it also does profound damage to Britain's reputation overseas.

Steve Turner .... Unite .... widespread revulsion. You have to admit, it has a ring to it.

By the way, let's remind ourselves what this is about, shall we. BA hired foreign nationals on local contracts overseas that says they will retire at 45 with a fixed payment, in accordance with Hong Kong employment legislation.

Now these same foreign nationals want to come and argue in a UK court that they are entitled to UK employment protection, viz. retirement at 60 and a pension. Have they so much as paid a single NI stamp?

I must admit I am developing a widespread revulsion for the amount of overseas freeloaders sticking their grubby hands out in the UK's direction.

I hope BA appeal this decision - which is purely about these foreign nationals wanting UK jurisdiction for their hearing.

And my widespread revulsion is aimed more at detritus like Steve Turner who seem to forget the "widespread revulsion" generated when he and his horrible little union lowlives sought to ruin every BA passengers holiday season.

[fincastle84]

Desertia

Is Steve Turner a BA employee?

[Desertia]

Fin,

You'd best pop those glasses on and read that first line again

[fincastle84]

I have, thanks. So he is paid by the Bassa members to wreck BA & their chances of employment.

Amazing!

[Desertia]

I'm not sure if he's paid by anyone to come out with the relentless nonsense that he does.

Some of his more memorable quotes:

"This imposition is completely unacceptable. It is a disgraceful attempt to intimidate workers into accepting poorer contracts. This imposition must be withdrawn. BA must step back from the brink and get back round the table to talk."

(I don't remember BA ever leaving the table, except when the injunction against the strike was awarded).

Steve Turner from the union Unite comments that BA have 'failed to grasp' the proposals put forward by cabin crew.

That's why they hired PWC, dummy.

Steve Turner and Brian Boyd, the aviation representatives for the union, have announced that they will not stop until strike action is approved and taken against the airline.

So really, they don't care what BA does, all they care about is their precious strike. And they dare to use words like "machismo" in relation to BA?

"We don't care whether it's legal or not. It is unacceptable. The only way we have to address unacceptable behaviour from an employer is to strike," said Turner.

Well that's probably why you aren't very good in the legal department, isn't it Stevie boy?

Oh I'm LOL'ing just reminding myself of this gormless twerp.

[spin_doctor]

PCCC Recognition

With regards to recognition of the proposed new union (PCCC), the following from businesslink.gov.uk makes it pretty clear:

"There is nothing to stop an employer from voluntarily agreeing to recognise one or more trade unions."

There would only be a problem if BA chose not to recognise it, as it is extremely unlikely that they would be able to get statutory recognition given that another union representing CC already exists.

As previously mentioned though, why would BA chose not to recognise a new union which states that it wants a collaborative and pro-active approach to negotiation?

[malcolmf]

It is also easy to start a derecognition process. How easy it is to finish it is a different matter.

[Desertia]

It is also easy to start a derecognition process. How easy it is to finish it is a different matter.

I would imagine if you completely ignored BASSA and refused to communicate with them, instead preferring to go through a more transparent organisation such as the PCCC, then eventually BASSA members would start asking themselves what they are getting for their 15 quid a month apart from the odd poorly-spelt, foaming-at-the-mouth, ranting email.

Especially if said PCCC were to ask for particular concessions and receive them almost immediately.

Then it doesn't really matter whether BASSA is recognised or not.

They'd be about as toothless as Tony Woodley was at LongBridge.

[Clarified]

Litebulbs, Litebulbs, Litebulbs!

Firstly, they were a recognised union, the AEEU. Now this may not be true, but if I remember, it was LGW that drove CC89 post BA's merger (it is still hard to say takeover as I was BCAL!) with British Caledonian, so you could easily define a bargaining group by geographical location.

As I recall the founders of CC89 were 2 LHR BASSA reps who defected. They wanted a different way of doing things and set up a new union to give crew who felt the same a choice, (I am getting a strange feeling of deja vu). One example of this different approach was to promise to postal ballot ALL members on issues before taking decisions and not leave it to member's meetings to decide on behalf of everyone else. (ringing any bells).
They were very successful, they had huge involvement in negotiating the long range agreement with BA, an agreement we all enjoy now. They also took a lot of people with them, especially from LHR longhaul. In fact I think they were the biggest union on longhaul for sometime. As you suggest I am sure they had membership at LGW, their legacy (AMICUS) is very strong at LGW now. They were also very strong and influencial at LHR, especially on longhaul.

(Things as I recall them, please correct me if I am wrong).

p.s. Letter of the week in BA News is very interesting.

[malcolmf]

From the Business Link website:

Derecognition owing to lack of support - worker application

A worker (or workers) from the bargaining unit can apply to the CAC for derecognition - but only where no such similar application has been made in the past three years.
If the CAC accepts the application as valid, it will try to help the workers, union and employer reach an agreement on derecognition.
If an agreement is not reached, the CAC will arrange a secret ballot to test worker support for derecognition.
However, it will do this only if it believes that:

• at least 10 per cent of the workers in the bargaining unit favour derecognition, and
• a majority of the workers in the bargaining unit are likely to favour derecognition

A union will be derecognised as a result of the ballot if a majority of those voting and at least 40 per cent of those entitled to vote favour derecognition.

[cessnapete]

henkybaby

This is only a PR stunt as they couldn't have a strike over Easter on this ballot.
Ballot result out 22/2. Any strike has to be not less than 7 days and not more then 4 weeks ie 22/3. So they would have to call 14/15 day strike to cover Easter or re ballot.
Probably not a good idea after last Press/Public reaction!!

[moo]

A letter published in today's BA News

"I AM a cabin crew member and what follows represents my own personal viewpoint.
I have deliberated about whether or not to write this letter because of the likelihood of reprisals from the more militant union members in the cabin crew community.
The cabin crew community is being led down a very rocky road by Unite, which has made decisions without proper consultation of all members.
Unite has rejected perfectly reasonable cost-saving plans by BA (crew complement changes) and instead it has suggested ones that are unacceptable to both BA and the community.
Speak to any cabin crew member and they will all say that they are prepared to work harder, but they do not want to lose money out of their salary.
So why has the union reached this impasse?
The complement changes and the head count reduction means that the union would pay the price by a reduction in membership fees.
A reduction in members and
fees means a reduction in the union’s power, so the union will want to avoid this at any cost.
And the cost of all this has been us, the crew community.
Over the past few weeks, Unite has brought shame to our good name.
We were once a proud, professional community, but the union brought that reputation into disrepute with our customers at Christmas.
The majority of crew are now overwhelmed and exhausted by this spat.
It is a power struggle that most crew now believe has gone too far. The only thing the union has achieved is to drive our customers away.
By re-balloting now, it is ensuring that they will stay away even longer.
So, having brought the crew community into disrepute, the union seems intent on destroying our company. It must stop.
This union must not be allowed to sabotage our community and, more
importantly, our company. I hope that every cabin crew
member can see the damage that this union is doing and resign from it.
I know that the wider community can see the damage that the union is doing to our company, and now the cabin crew community need to realise it too.
BA is our baby – if we don’t save it, who will?

This letter was unsolicited and the writer has asked us to withhold their name"

[Jockster]

All it needed at the end was a "Join PCCC instead" advertisement. Brave lady / gentleman who wrote it or did they? Of course the BASSA loonies will claim it was written by a manager......blah blah!!!

[fly12345]

moo, I wish you had the guts to publish your letter on the Ba forum.
i agree with you 100%.
Good luck to all of us. We sure need it.

[TorC]

Originally Posted by moo

"This letter was unsolicited and the writer has asked us to withhold their name"

And of course, the first thing bassa will do is claim it was written by a manager. After all, we know bassa can't imagine that crew have their own brains, with their own thoughts.

[BAcrewboy]

I am currently in UNITE and am voting no to a strike - if the result comes back as a yes, i shall break the strike and come to work. However, i am not sure about leaving the union 'cos i may need them one day to stand in my corner for, let's say a disciplinary? Can someone tell me about this PCCC and if it could stand in that position - in which case i will be waving goodye to BASSA.

[Desertia]

However, i am not sure about leaving the union 'cos i may need them one day to stand in my corner for, let's say a disciplinary?

I would almost agree with you, but how on earth could you trust such a bunch of liars to "stand in your corner"?

It is evident to the rest of us that they are only interested in looking after themselves.

They would probably "fight to the death" (well that's what they call it) to protect a suspended fellow militant who's made snide remarks over the PA about the service, but would they lift a finger to help someone who's been threatened with physical violence for questioning the wisdom of strike action?

I doubt it.

[Dawdler]

It seems to me that they stood in the corner of the LGW crews when it came to manning levels. However that would appear to be all they did, - stand in the corner and watch! Whether the PCCC are quite ready to stand up for you is a matter of some conjecture.