British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Seriously though, I've learned a hell of a lot about unions from this thread.
I'm a member of Unite, much to my displeasure, but I joined it mainly for the workplace representation. My own reps are good guys who I work with on a daily basis, so I'm sure I'd get a decent service from them if I needed it.
I didn't know, for example, that it's possible to opt out of donating funds to Golden Brown and his clueless mates, so I shall investigate further as regards that.
Thanks again.
Professional Cabin Services Organization? Hmm...PCSO. Maybe not!
I'm a member of Unite, much to my displeasure, but I joined it mainly for the workplace representation. My own reps are good guys who I work with on a daily basis, so I'm sure I'd get a decent service from them if I needed it.
I didn't know, for example, that it's possible to opt out of donating funds to Golden Brown and his clueless mates, so I shall investigate further as regards that.
Thanks again.
Professional Cabin Services Organization? Hmm...PCSO. Maybe not!
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How about ditch one of the Cs?
PCC.....Professional Cabincrew Council or Professional Crew Council?
It may be an idea to avoid the term 'Cabin Crew' in case history repeats itself and people with nothing better to do decide that the term will henceforth be considered offensive and derogatory, like 'Stewardess'
Or go for CPC, Council of Professional Cabincrew
Or how about 'Peace' as in 'PCCCCcccccc', then you can have as many Cs as you like!
Professional, Committed, Caring & Considerate Coalition Council for Continued Conciliation, Coexistent Concentric Cooperation & Codependent Coordination in Companywide Cabin Crew Collaboration
It's got a certain ring to it....!
I think whoever brought up the 'P Cee Cee Cee' being a bit too much of a mouthful has probably got a point though, as that's what people will know you as, rather than what it stands for....I mean, how many people incorrectly think BASSA stands for British Airways S S A?!
My vote's with PCC, but regardless GOOD LUCK to you fine people, I feel sure you ALREADY enjoy the full support and backing of the 30,000 plus employees in British Airways who don't belong to BASSA!! GO GET 'EM!
peace out
PCC.....Professional Cabincrew Council or Professional Crew Council?
It may be an idea to avoid the term 'Cabin Crew' in case history repeats itself and people with nothing better to do decide that the term will henceforth be considered offensive and derogatory, like 'Stewardess'
Or go for CPC, Council of Professional Cabincrew
Or how about 'Peace' as in 'PCCCCcccccc', then you can have as many Cs as you like!
Professional, Committed, Caring & Considerate Coalition Council for Continued Conciliation, Coexistent Concentric Cooperation & Codependent Coordination in Companywide Cabin Crew Collaboration
It's got a certain ring to it....!
I think whoever brought up the 'P Cee Cee Cee' being a bit too much of a mouthful has probably got a point though, as that's what people will know you as, rather than what it stands for....I mean, how many people incorrectly think BASSA stands for British Airways S S A?!
My vote's with PCC, but regardless GOOD LUCK to you fine people, I feel sure you ALREADY enjoy the full support and backing of the 30,000 plus employees in British Airways who don't belong to BASSA!! GO GET 'EM!
peace out
Last edited by flybymerchant; 21st Jan 2010 at 15:31. Reason: type-oh
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I'm sure when I joined the union (back in BCAL ground staff days) it was pointed out to us that a portion of the subs went to labour party, and we were instructed how to opt out of that if we so desired....does that not happen nowadays?
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Legak cover
BAcrewboy
I can understand your concern about legal cover.Bassa love to boast how you need them to represent you.The fear of being on your own is what they live off.
Ask yourself, which legal team will they use?Will it be the one that advised them on the ballot?
Let's face it they couldn't be bothered to employ a tax specialist to sort out the recent audit.
It's your call, but could you buy a policy for £16 a month?
Could using a no win no fee soliciter work out cheaper?
Do you have confidence in them and trust them?
Ask yourself these questions and make up your mind.
I can understand your concern about legal cover.Bassa love to boast how you need them to represent you.The fear of being on your own is what they live off.
Ask yourself, which legal team will they use?Will it be the one that advised them on the ballot?
Let's face it they couldn't be bothered to employ a tax specialist to sort out the recent audit.
It's your call, but could you buy a policy for £16 a month?
Could using a no win no fee soliciter work out cheaper?
Do you have confidence in them and trust them?
Ask yourself these questions and make up your mind.
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I'm sure when I joined the union (back in BCAL ground staff days) it was pointed out to us that a portion of the subs went to labour party, and we were instructed how to opt out of that if we so desired....does that not happen nowadays?
I've always thought it strange that a trade union, whose purported raison d'etre is to protect workers in a particular industry, should align itself with any political party.
Unite are very big on equality. Even to the point of priniting posters extolling their non-discrimination policy, so surely there can be no objection to anyone wanting to opt out of donating to a political party of whatever persuasion?
Anyway, enough thread creep. Thanks to all for your imput. I shall look into it further.
CPC. Yep. That sounds good to me!
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PCC = Police Complaints Commission and Press Complaints Commission, so maybe not the best to use!
PCCC is fine on literature, how about when using it in speech saying 'P triple C'?
PCCC is fine on literature, how about when using it in speech saying 'P triple C'?
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flybymerchant
Or go for CPC, Council of Professional Cabincrew
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Political Contributions
If I recall a part of trade union reform introduced by Margaret Thatcher was to prevent a percentage of union subs by default making a contribution to political parties at the diktat of the TU concerned. Legislation was introduced which meant if an individual wished to make such a contribution they had to opt-in instead of making a passive payment in many cases unaware they were doing so.
Now it could be that that piece of TU reform was amended by the current government. Individuals who feel strongly about this should of course contact their respective TU and find out the current situation.
Now it could be that that piece of TU reform was amended by the current government. Individuals who feel strongly about this should of course contact their respective TU and find out the current situation.
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As I seem to be the only surviving customer on this thread ...
We customers would be grateful for that sort of positive engagement with the company, I suspect. I have previously expressed dissatisfaction with levels of customer service here; I now have a greater understanding of how and why that may have arisen.
The bottom line remains ... that it is the customers who pay to operate the airline. See my earlier post; I'm now taking about a £6k bet on being able to fly in April, following further 'investment' today.
Not a time for posturing, folks, regardless of how strongly some people feel. We, and our money, will simply walk away. And BA goes away with us.
Again, good luck to you all.
Originally Posted by JayPee28bpr
I'll give you an example of the latter. A few pages back Slidebustle detailed some aspects of the new work arrangements she feels aren't working and said "I'm going to feed back to my manager". The impression given is that the fedback will be constructive. Ideally it will involve suggestions of how to change/improve arrangements so they do work. Most importantly, however, such feedback looks as though it will be of the "punters aren't getting what they think they paid for" variety, and not "it isn't in my T&Cs".
Now, imagine she also says, "I'm in PCCC. We've discussed this and suggest we do X, Y, and Z to see if we can make it work. We're happy to trial it for you if you agree". I'm going to assume here that where SB has issues correlates to relatively poor customer feedback. If this is a reasonable assumption, we now have a position where SB's manager also has an opportunity to look smart in front of his/her manager, by identifying the reasons for the poor customer feedback and putting forward some options to try and improve things. Even better for BA generally is that PCCC offers an organised group willing to engage in product development and management from a customer marketing perspective, not one of "does it comply with our work agreements?".
Now, imagine she also says, "I'm in PCCC. We've discussed this and suggest we do X, Y, and Z to see if we can make it work. We're happy to trial it for you if you agree". I'm going to assume here that where SB has issues correlates to relatively poor customer feedback. If this is a reasonable assumption, we now have a position where SB's manager also has an opportunity to look smart in front of his/her manager, by identifying the reasons for the poor customer feedback and putting forward some options to try and improve things. Even better for BA generally is that PCCC offers an organised group willing to engage in product development and management from a customer marketing perspective, not one of "does it comply with our work agreements?".
The bottom line remains ... that it is the customers who pay to operate the airline. See my earlier post; I'm now taking about a £6k bet on being able to fly in April, following further 'investment' today.
Not a time for posturing, folks, regardless of how strongly some people feel. We, and our money, will simply walk away. And BA goes away with us.
Again, good luck to you all.
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``If you're only looking for representation in the event of disciplinaries/accidents etc, you can get legal insurance for such events and use legal advice under that cover.`
No you cant as I understand it you have to go by BA rules (all the EG`s) and be supported by your reps otherwise you have to represent yourself you cant employ an outsider at that time!!Maybe after if you loose your job you can!
No you cant as I understand it you have to go by BA rules (all the EG`s) and be supported by your reps otherwise you have to represent yourself you cant employ an outsider at that time!!Maybe after if you loose your job you can!
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Well the City seems fairly comfortable with the present situation. BA shares leading the FTSE-100 today up 3.6%.
Although I do have some reservations ... who failed to predict, or created, the crash?
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PCC - Precision Cast Components. They make the turbine blades in your engines.
Just for reference, I used to work years ago for Honda in Swindon. They had a Workers Council arrangement there. Maybe contact them for advice also.
Just for reference, I used to work years ago for Honda in Swindon. They had a Workers Council arrangement there. Maybe contact them for advice also.
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If you do not belong to a union and have a disciplinary then you are on your own.
As far as accidents at work are concerned, there are a multitude of companies advertising to fight such cases on a no win no fee basis.
Check your home insurance, you may find you can get free legal representation from them.
Obviously it is better to be in a union as none of us know what might happen but it is difficult if you do not have much faith in the union.
As far as accidents at work are concerned, there are a multitude of companies advertising to fight such cases on a no win no fee basis.
Check your home insurance, you may find you can get free legal representation from them.
Obviously it is better to be in a union as none of us know what might happen but it is difficult if you do not have much faith in the union.
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Without commenting on the various "opinions" on the rights and statutory procedures for representation, I would suggest that anyone with any queries first of all reads the ACAS booklet on disciplinary and grievance procedures, available for download at :
http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=272&p=0
Note the right to "accompany" by either a TU official or workplace companion, and the rights to paid leave for a workplace colleague to research and prepare. There is no requirement for a nominated TU official to come from a "recognised" union.
Presumably, if the PCCC wished to take on this sort of role, and they weren't a trade union, they could still provide workplace colleagues as part of their membership services.
Although ACAS Code of Practice advice has no statutory effect, in reality Employment Tribunals use them as their "bibles" and woebetide any employer that develops any alternative procedures that weaken the individual's position. The majority of successful unfair dismissal claims are because an employer fails to follow procedures from the ACAS guidelines.
The ACAS website also contains a vast amount of information about the application of legislative rules in the UK workplace. ACAS regional offices will always provide free impartial procedural advice to any employee subject to disciplinary process.
The one good thing of being represented by a "Full time" union official (not a rep), is that they may spend a great deal of their time doing just that, and are therefore tend to be much more procedurally aware than atypical employer middle manager.
http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=272&p=0
Note the right to "accompany" by either a TU official or workplace companion, and the rights to paid leave for a workplace colleague to research and prepare. There is no requirement for a nominated TU official to come from a "recognised" union.
Presumably, if the PCCC wished to take on this sort of role, and they weren't a trade union, they could still provide workplace colleagues as part of their membership services.
Although ACAS Code of Practice advice has no statutory effect, in reality Employment Tribunals use them as their "bibles" and woebetide any employer that develops any alternative procedures that weaken the individual's position. The majority of successful unfair dismissal claims are because an employer fails to follow procedures from the ACAS guidelines.
The ACAS website also contains a vast amount of information about the application of legislative rules in the UK workplace. ACAS regional offices will always provide free impartial procedural advice to any employee subject to disciplinary process.
The one good thing of being represented by a "Full time" union official (not a rep), is that they may spend a great deal of their time doing just that, and are therefore tend to be much more procedurally aware than atypical employer middle manager.
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If you do not belong to a union and have a disciplinary then you are on your own.
On a different theme, as fairly frequent SLF, I have noticed that BA will credit EC members with the tier points for any flight they are booked on that is cancelled because of the strike (assuming that it is going to happen), as well as giving a full refund. That effectively removes the risk of booking, and even goes a little bit further.
I seem to recall that around the time of the first ballot there were suggestions that it had multiple legal problems, not just the one BA took to court. If this is true and the other faults are still there, will BA go to court again, or will they call BASSA's bluff and let them have their strike?
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@ Dairyground ...
I found that one today. Interesting, as ISTR that VS were offering the same on their website today [sorry, being tempted to disloyalty, because I have to!! ]
I have noticed that BA will credit EC members with the tier points for any flight they are booked on that is cancelled because of the strike (assuming that it is going to happen), as well as giving a full refund.
]
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No court injunction this time. BA will let BASSA go ahead and strike but meet them head on. Volunteers are being trained to act as cabin crew in the event of a strike in there thousands and come the day of the strike the first strikers will be sacked as an example to others.
Then the rest will realise that this isnt la la land but hard nosed business and will be back at work by lunchtime.
BASSA meantime will loose all respect and members will resign in their thousands.
Buy BA shares now!
Then the rest will realise that this isnt la la land but hard nosed business and will be back at work by lunchtime.
BASSA meantime will loose all respect and members will resign in their thousands.
Buy BA shares now!