British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Beeline
However, I think the passengers would sacrifice a premium cabin service during the flight to actually get them to the destination, thoughts customers?
If BA can be creative, if the Crew presents a positive face to the flying public, you may find many passengers more than willing to engage.
Its important to remember that the vast majority of the public (and that includes the flying public) is firmly against BASSA/Unite and the Militant Cabin Crews actions.
Properly put into action, this plan has the potential to be a significant win for BA and its responsible employees with the flying public.
I'm going to be watching this with interest.
One thing about the Brits, in particular, is that they do love the underdog. I suspect that the stand in CC will get a lot of moral support from passengers who realise that they're going beyond the call of duty to get them to their destinations. As someone else commented, there's likely to be a bit of a Dunkirk Spirit on board.
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If i worked for BA in a back line position yeah I'd love to go fly an aircraft to some nice places. HOWEVER, given the current climate of job losses you could also look at it the other way. If you can be released from your job to go fly, was your job needed in the first place?. Can they manage without you when you go back behind your desk. Why not get rid of you also!.
Yes you can fly both a plane and a desk but then your desk hours start couting to your flying.
WW is on a collision course with the CC and looking to replace them will p*ss a lot of neutral CC off.
Yes you can fly both a plane and a desk but then your desk hours start couting to your flying.
WW is on a collision course with the CC and looking to replace them will p*ss a lot of neutral CC off.
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Given the size of the vote in favour of a strike there are very few "neutral" CC out there, only those outside BASSA can be described as that. I think they will be as worried as the rest of us.
If however you mean that many of those who voted in favour didn't really mean it then that is different.
I think the next vote will be much more interesting, I suspect there will be a very large abstention.
If however you mean that many of those who voted in favour didn't really mean it then that is different.
I think the next vote will be much more interesting, I suspect there will be a very large abstention.
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I suspect that the stand in CC will get a lot of moral support from passengers who realise that they're going beyond the call of duty to get them to their destinations. As someone else commented, there's likely to be a bit of a Dunkirk Spirit on board.
If BA get enough staff volunteering, it could be a real PR coup for them - and might well go a fair way to restoring confidence amongst the public.
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Mr Angry,
The volunteers are not being brought in to replace the striking cc permanently. They will be brought in to get flights to their destination, working alongside experienced crew.
There will be staff from various departments who cannot voluteer, for several reasons, such as being below the minimum height requirement. I'm guessing here, but the offices will operated with skeleton staff for a short time, and that is do-able.
Personally, I think a flight with 5 experienced cc (777) and a pilot, an engineer, check-in agent, a baggage loader and a waterside manager sounds like great fun.
Gg
The volunteers are not being brought in to replace the striking cc permanently. They will be brought in to get flights to their destination, working alongside experienced crew.
There will be staff from various departments who cannot voluteer, for several reasons, such as being below the minimum height requirement. I'm guessing here, but the offices will operated with skeleton staff for a short time, and that is do-able.
Personally, I think a flight with 5 experienced cc (777) and a pilot, an engineer, check-in agent, a baggage loader and a waterside manager sounds like great fun.
Gg
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I'll acknowledge Another Lurker's post 2354 [subject to amendments!] because what he says is important ...
Does anyone in BASSA see the reality in any of this? The World has changed, and it will change even more. Honestly, some people should be VERY afraid about the future of BA and their jobs. It WILL happen if the wrong people make the wrong decisions.
My company used to spend about $35m p/a with BA, mainly on CW and F bookings, but that was 2-3 years ago when everything was rosy and you could choose BA over the other carriers when you were booking travel and no-one minded that they were a bit more expensive.
Last year we spent about $17m and it'll probably be less this year and the year after. I don't see us ever returning to the 'good old days' - we are now forced to use other, cheaper carriers; telepresence and actually getting travel signed off in the first place are all other factors in the reducing numbers above.
Last year we spent about $17m and it'll probably be less this year and the year after. I don't see us ever returning to the 'good old days' - we are now forced to use other, cheaper carriers; telepresence and actually getting travel signed off in the first place are all other factors in the reducing numbers above.
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Twenty 4 Seven
What that steward told you is precisely how it is. Anyone who dares to criticise the union will have a tough time for the remainder of the trip.
I learned long ago that to remain popular you have to pretend you think the union can do no wrong.
Those who do not agree with the union are afraid to speak up for the above reason and for their own good remain silent or say they support the union when they do not.
What that steward told you is precisely how it is. Anyone who dares to criticise the union will have a tough time for the remainder of the trip.
I learned long ago that to remain popular you have to pretend you think the union can do no wrong.
Those who do not agree with the union are afraid to speak up for the above reason and for their own good remain silent or say they support the union when they do not.
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In regards to being afraid of speaking up, I can also tell you that union reps treat eachother like this. It is truly beyond belief now.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who feel bullied and scared, both by colleagues and union reps. This is another reason for getting in touch with the PCCC.
Gg
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who feel bullied and scared, both by colleagues and union reps. This is another reason for getting in touch with the PCCC.
Gg
Last edited by Glamgirl; 19th Jan 2010 at 17:09. Reason: typo
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Haven't been on here for a few weeks but what's the PCCC? Is this the Crew Council?
(apologies - have read the last couple of days and see it is!!).
(apologies - have read the last couple of days and see it is!!).
Last edited by Ben Asher; 19th Jan 2010 at 17:35.
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during the last strike ,the crew buses had to have the windows blacked out.
The crew check in area was screened off and all names wiped from rosters.
It is nasty and it is scary.
The crew who come in to work have to worry about severe reprisals.
There is already talk of " if you work we will remember"
Bullying from Walsh? Give me that any day than what will happen in a strike.
The crew downroute in a hotel will worry they are spotted and will face abuse.
It is very scary.Those that work are risking a lot.
The crew check in area was screened off and all names wiped from rosters.
It is nasty and it is scary.
The crew who come in to work have to worry about severe reprisals.
There is already talk of " if you work we will remember"
Bullying from Walsh? Give me that any day than what will happen in a strike.
The crew downroute in a hotel will worry they are spotted and will face abuse.
It is very scary.Those that work are risking a lot.
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@ Glamgirl ...
Does BA not have some form of HR CHIRP? This is bullying in the workplace, and is surely illegal? Or is that simply a manifestation of how far BASSA has been able to take over the Farm?
[Allusion to George Orwell's "Animal Farm", and in no way intended as disrespectful to employees].
[edit = 617sqn's post also noted.]
In regards to being afraid of speaking up, I can also tell you that union reps treat each other like this. It is truly beyond belief now.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who feel bullied and scared, both by colleagues and union reps.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who feel bullied and scared, both by colleagues and union reps.
[Allusion to George Orwell's "Animal Farm", and in no way intended as disrespectful to employees].
[edit = 617sqn's post also noted.]
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What If
In all of this nobody has posed the question what happens if the current situation drives BA into liqidation. Not just jobs will be lost but pensions may disappear as well.
Found this today in the Telegraph. Apparently the government pension rescue fund is creaking at the seams....
>>>More than 200,000 Britons with final salary pensions are waiting to hear whether they will receive compensation after their companies went bust
A lifeboat fund for workers who have lost their pensions is currently assessing 201,000 cases, up from 123,000 in March 2008. Experts warned the Pension Protection Fund is being stretched to the limit as it compensates increasing numbers of savers and may soon have to reduce the amount it pays out. It paid out £37.6 million in the tax year ending 2009 compared with £17.3 million the previous year and £1.4 million in the tax year ending 2007. The fund is a safety net for workers whose companies which have collapsed and can no longer afford to meet guarantees to provide final salary pensions. It means workers will at least receive some money in retirement, with the average payout from the PPF being just under £4,000 a year. The fund, which began making its first compensation payments in 2006, is partly funded by fees it charges to remaining final salary pension schemes. Laith Khalaf, a pensions analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown, said: “The PPF is funded by the final salary schemes left standing, so each member that falls into the PPF is not just one more mouth to feed but is one less pair of hands to do the feeding. The worry is that at some point the burden of compensation at current levels will become too great.” There are 7,300 final salary schemes in Britain, according to the Pension Protection Fund. These provide members with a pension based on their final salary – as opposed to a defined contribution pension, which relies on the performance of the stock market. Companies are closing the final salary pension schemes as they can no longer afford to guarantee members that they will pay out what they promised
Found this today in the Telegraph. Apparently the government pension rescue fund is creaking at the seams....
>>>More than 200,000 Britons with final salary pensions are waiting to hear whether they will receive compensation after their companies went bust
A lifeboat fund for workers who have lost their pensions is currently assessing 201,000 cases, up from 123,000 in March 2008. Experts warned the Pension Protection Fund is being stretched to the limit as it compensates increasing numbers of savers and may soon have to reduce the amount it pays out. It paid out £37.6 million in the tax year ending 2009 compared with £17.3 million the previous year and £1.4 million in the tax year ending 2007. The fund is a safety net for workers whose companies which have collapsed and can no longer afford to meet guarantees to provide final salary pensions. It means workers will at least receive some money in retirement, with the average payout from the PPF being just under £4,000 a year. The fund, which began making its first compensation payments in 2006, is partly funded by fees it charges to remaining final salary pension schemes. Laith Khalaf, a pensions analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown, said: “The PPF is funded by the final salary schemes left standing, so each member that falls into the PPF is not just one more mouth to feed but is one less pair of hands to do the feeding. The worry is that at some point the burden of compensation at current levels will become too great.” There are 7,300 final salary schemes in Britain, according to the Pension Protection Fund. These provide members with a pension based on their final salary – as opposed to a defined contribution pension, which relies on the performance of the stock market. Companies are closing the final salary pension schemes as they can no longer afford to guarantee members that they will pay out what they promised
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617sqn
It is very scary.Those that work are risking a lot.
617sqn, I understand your concern, but it shouldn't phase people. We live in a democracy, if you or anyone else chooses to support their company they can. They will also be supported in that process, not only by the company but by an increasing amount of peers, not all of which fly, yet!
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For those who are frightened of breaking a strike:
The laws about picket lines and behaviour have changed a lot since last time (thankfully).
The (small) picket there may be, will be pretty far away from report centres.
The company will have a plan as to how to get you to work (and back) safely.
Who's going to know whether you worked or not? Everybody who's coming to work during a strike are in the same boat, and surely will keep their mouths zipped.
In regards to the bullying issue. It's sometimes done very subtly, as it's difficult to prove. The union die-hards are very clever with this (shame that this is what they're clever about...). They make people feel it's their own fault for "getting it wrong", and therefore outcast without anyone to turn to. It's the nasty side of work that isn't talked about enough. We need to support eachother, that's my main message of today.
Gg
Ps. Ben Asher, yes, the PCCC is the Professional Cabin Crew Council
The laws about picket lines and behaviour have changed a lot since last time (thankfully).
The (small) picket there may be, will be pretty far away from report centres.
The company will have a plan as to how to get you to work (and back) safely.
Who's going to know whether you worked or not? Everybody who's coming to work during a strike are in the same boat, and surely will keep their mouths zipped.
In regards to the bullying issue. It's sometimes done very subtly, as it's difficult to prove. The union die-hards are very clever with this (shame that this is what they're clever about...). They make people feel it's their own fault for "getting it wrong", and therefore outcast without anyone to turn to. It's the nasty side of work that isn't talked about enough. We need to support eachother, that's my main message of today.
Gg
Ps. Ben Asher, yes, the PCCC is the Professional Cabin Crew Council
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It is very scary.Those that work are risking a lot.
Closed shops, "all out", all in the past now.
Anyone chosing to work will feel safe enough I'm sure, especially in an airport..! Cant see anyone getting away with being unruley in T5 for long, can you?
Last edited by Snas; 19th Jan 2010 at 17:44. Reason: typo
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Surely every BASSA member is aware that a percentage of their subs go to the Labour Party?
You can opt out of yours being donated, but it is an opt out scheme, by default Gordon Brown will get ya’ pennies.
You can opt out of yours being donated, but it is an opt out scheme, by default Gordon Brown will get ya’ pennies.
There will be no picket lines on BA or BAA property!!!
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People think only the minority are hard-line militants, there are more than people realise.
You also get those who are not too militant but believe everything bassa says or more usually another crew member tells them, without questioning whether it might be correct or not.
You also get those who are not too militant but believe everything bassa says or more usually another crew member tells them, without questioning whether it might be correct or not.
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I would say the normal rumour I hear is how BASSA reps always seem to get the 2 long range trips per month. Explain that one.
Rumour 2 - Most of the reps seem to be on similar 6 and 3 patterns and 2 of the preceding strike dates fell cannily on the beginning of those 3 days off for the majority of them.
Winstonsmith is saying what they think, not what they'll do.
Rumour 2 - Most of the reps seem to be on similar 6 and 3 patterns and 2 of the preceding strike dates fell cannily on the beginning of those 3 days off for the majority of them.
Winstonsmith is saying what they think, not what they'll do.