British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Because I have heard something which I wont divulge on here except to say that even if BA lose the court case, and by what I was told it actually looks like they will due to some legal precedent about 'established practice over time' - upon which they have no defence - there will be a shock and awe anouncement that will go one of two ways.
Oh, and I hope your franchise goes bust as well.
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As someone who spent 12 years on BA engineering at a time when the communist run unions had a grip on the throat of BA and we had terrible and incompetant management - if the union blacked you, the management fired you - I have followed this thread and would like to make a few points.
This whole fight by BASSA is to get control over BA - and incidentally keep control of a gross income of £1,894,320 pa (10524 members x £15pcm) - and control the members by calling them out on a nonsense strike proving to the world the power they have.
Suggestions ;
1. Don't try to take over BASSA, it will take too long and they have the funding under their control.
2. Under no circumstances allow anyone to join PCC who has held any type of authority in BASSA - they will only try and undermine PCC - and you cannot afford that in any new startup organisation.
3. Don't worry about BA still continuing to negotiate with BASSA, they would continue to do so to cover the total CC staff, but would undoubtably encourage PCC, (what a change for them to work together with a union, both looking to improve the job, service offered to customers and changes that help both sides). When BASSA has shrunk to the point of being a minor bitter residue of bankrupt fools, they can ignore them.
4. Talk to BALPA, they have already proved to be a democratic organisation who are willing to help a new startup union get off the ground, and of course, unlike BASSA they show intelligence. I would believe that this would also give PCC credance in BA's view.
5. I cannot see that PCC would need to affiliate itself to any other union.
6. With the potential amount of income from members at £15 per month totalling £1.8m, I would think that the subs could be reduced £10 per month by the end of the first year, once the basic organisation and costs are set up, and the membership has reached a stable level - after all there would not be any affiliation fees to pay!.
As a paying PAX these days I wish you all the very best of luck in getting rid of a parasite on your and BA's backs.
Entaxei.
This whole fight by BASSA is to get control over BA - and incidentally keep control of a gross income of £1,894,320 pa (10524 members x £15pcm) - and control the members by calling them out on a nonsense strike proving to the world the power they have.
Suggestions ;
1. Don't try to take over BASSA, it will take too long and they have the funding under their control.
2. Under no circumstances allow anyone to join PCC who has held any type of authority in BASSA - they will only try and undermine PCC - and you cannot afford that in any new startup organisation.
3. Don't worry about BA still continuing to negotiate with BASSA, they would continue to do so to cover the total CC staff, but would undoubtably encourage PCC, (what a change for them to work together with a union, both looking to improve the job, service offered to customers and changes that help both sides). When BASSA has shrunk to the point of being a minor bitter residue of bankrupt fools, they can ignore them.
4. Talk to BALPA, they have already proved to be a democratic organisation who are willing to help a new startup union get off the ground, and of course, unlike BASSA they show intelligence. I would believe that this would also give PCC credance in BA's view.
5. I cannot see that PCC would need to affiliate itself to any other union.
6. With the potential amount of income from members at £15 per month totalling £1.8m, I would think that the subs could be reduced £10 per month by the end of the first year, once the basic organisation and costs are set up, and the membership has reached a stable level - after all there would not be any affiliation fees to pay!.
As a paying PAX these days I wish you all the very best of luck in getting rid of a parasite on your and BA's backs.
Entaxei.
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Lurker,
FWIW, that person didn't say s/he had access to your personal details or email. S/he claimed to have put two and two together. If this person was talking rubbish, surely you would take it in your stride and post how wrong s/he were? If you leave now, everybody will think that the poster in question was actually correct in their "investigations".
With some of your posts, you come across as completely unreasonable. In some posts you come across better. I know this is a stressful time for all concerned, but it is a forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion (within reason).
I'm posting this purely as advisory. No malice or bad intent at all. If you wish to read it, that's your choice.
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
FWIW, that person didn't say s/he had access to your personal details or email. S/he claimed to have put two and two together. If this person was talking rubbish, surely you would take it in your stride and post how wrong s/he were? If you leave now, everybody will think that the poster in question was actually correct in their "investigations".
With some of your posts, you come across as completely unreasonable. In some posts you come across better. I know this is a stressful time for all concerned, but it is a forum where everyone is entitled to an opinion (within reason).
I'm posting this purely as advisory. No malice or bad intent at all. If you wish to read it, that's your choice.
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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A Lurker
That is an absolutely staggering quote - you are in effect being selective as to who you allow to join your 'council' - how can that be all inclusive? Is it because I am black? Is it because I am Scottish? Is it because I don't subscribe to the 'council' line?
You have just lost all credibilty as a 'council' as you have clearly stated on a public forum that you are not an all inclusive organisation - BA will never listen to you in a 1000 years after that statement - well done for killing youe new 'council' - you are no better than racists or fascists as you only allow in who you deem acceptable - that is disgraceful
You have just lost all credibilty as a 'council' as you have clearly stated on a public forum that you are not an all inclusive organisation - BA will never listen to you in a 1000 years after that statement - well done for killing youe new 'council' - you are no better than racists or fascists as you only allow in who you deem acceptable - that is disgraceful
Hiflyer14 did NOT say you couldn't join PCC. It was merely pointed-out to you that with views as strongly held, and as opposite to those of the PCC, as yours, it would be highly unlikely they could do anything for you that you would be likely to appreciate.
Bearing in mind that it is a fledgling organisation, mainly focused on offering an alternative to the 1000's of crew caught-up in this mess (most without 2nd or 3rd incomes btw), it'd be wrong to focus so much effort on any one individual.
If you email them you will recieve plenty of thought-provoking literature that just may open you to some different views, and offer you some degree of hope. That in itself may help you to help yourself.
I am BA Cabin Crew. These thoughts are my own, not those of my employer.
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A Lurker
That is it - I have had it on here.
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and email address has made threats against me - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and email address has made threats against me - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
I am BA Cabin Crew. These thoughts are my own, not those of my employer.
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A Lurker
Whilst I don’t agree with all that you post, this is a forum and you should have the right to speak freely without threats. I would suggest you take legal advice as blackmail is a criminal offence and should not be tolerated on any forum.
Please don’t be put off by these threats; lively debate and open discussions are what’s needed as well as mutual respect
Please don’t be put off by these threats; lively debate and open discussions are what’s needed as well as mutual respect
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That is it - I have had it on here.
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and email address has made threats against me - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and email address has made threats against me - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
I have no answers only rhetoric, my opinions are based on half truths and spin. I demand respect but will not demean myself to give it. I need not compromise or engage, listen or debate. My self interest is paramount, my self worth beyond measure. I've been rumbled so I'm off.
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Before the drama queens board the SS moral outrage and set themselves on yet another bullying crusade a small point.
Informing an employer of am employees contractual non compliance is not b&h it might even be the resoponsible action of a diligent employee. Informing hmrc of attempted tax evasion is rewarded and could be considered a moral obligation.
Running to the apron strings of mother pc only works if your not actually in the wrong!
Informing an employer of am employees contractual non compliance is not b&h it might even be the resoponsible action of a diligent employee. Informing hmrc of attempted tax evasion is rewarded and could be considered a moral obligation.
Running to the apron strings of mother pc only works if your not actually in the wrong!
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Lurker,
the post had been removed. It wasn't made by a moderator and contained nothing but cryptic info so that you would know that the person knew who you where. Any 'threat' was to inform the company that you possibly had enployememt that may be restricted by your contract. If your not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to be concerened about.
Again, logic suggest that a mod knows your details without having to work it out by referance to your post history! Like lala if you showed some restraint when embellishing your grievances you might not illicate the level of anger that can only lead to conflict.
I pretty sure you said you hadn't informed the company in an earlier post and stated you knew you should have. So for clarity you will be striking even in the court finds that BA has not imposed a contractual change on principle but feel quite happy to admit you haven't complied with that contract on an other matter!
Why do bassa/unite followers think the truth is a weapon to be manipulated to prove/disprove any position that differs from theirs?
the post had been removed. It wasn't made by a moderator and contained nothing but cryptic info so that you would know that the person knew who you where. Any 'threat' was to inform the company that you possibly had enployememt that may be restricted by your contract. If your not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to be concerened about.
Again, logic suggest that a mod knows your details without having to work it out by referance to your post history! Like lala if you showed some restraint when embellishing your grievances you might not illicate the level of anger that can only lead to conflict.
I pretty sure you said you hadn't informed the company in an earlier post and stated you knew you should have. So for clarity you will be striking even in the court finds that BA has not imposed a contractual change on principle but feel quite happy to admit you haven't complied with that contract on an other matter!
Why do bassa/unite followers think the truth is a weapon to be manipulated to prove/disprove any position that differs from theirs?
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Whilst I was catching up on this thread THREE pages disappeared! This at around 4.30am, that must mean a record number of posts have been deleted.
Either way now that he has withdrawn from the forum we'll never find out. Pity as he was giving a very interesting insight as to the thinking inside the Bassa bunker.
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Bunker, I think it's more of a big top!
My posts have survived the great lurker cull. No doubt what's gone never existed but if it had the content would have been reasonable and balanced, full of compromise and hope. Alas I'm sure on a forum somewhere in cybertweetspace there is a story of nasty pilots and turncoat crew, refusing to accept the truth or seeing reason, deleting great words of wisdom because they fear them.
The tragedy is that for every vocal and opinionated lurker/miss m there are 20 who have no clue and will blindly follow the militants out the door.
My posts have survived the great lurker cull. No doubt what's gone never existed but if it had the content would have been reasonable and balanced, full of compromise and hope. Alas I'm sure on a forum somewhere in cybertweetspace there is a story of nasty pilots and turncoat crew, refusing to accept the truth or seeing reason, deleting great words of wisdom because they fear them.
The tragedy is that for every vocal and opinionated lurker/miss m there are 20 who have no clue and will blindly follow the militants out the door.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Either way now that he has withdrawn from the forum we'll never find out. Pity as he was giving a very interesting insight as to the thinking inside the Bassa bunker.
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Hi Entaxei,
I'm not a BALPA rep, but I do know they are entirely neutral in this. They gave assistance to CC89 in the past but at present there is nothing to suggest that BALPA have any desire to take their eye off their own business.
BALPA are deeply concerned by the outright lies against the pilot community, and personal abuse of their reps by BASSA, and the grave impact BASSA's venom has on the business of the day - safely flying aeroplanes from A - B. Any suggestion BALPA are actively undermining BASSA is not helpful - besides, BASSA are self destructing anyhow, they don't need anyone elses help
I appreciate your comments are likely based on the CC89 startup, and I agree entirely with the rest of your excellent post!
4. Talk to BALPA, they have already proved to be a democratic organisation who are willing to help a new startup union get off the ground, and of course, unlike BASSA they show intelligence. I would believe that this would also give PCC credance in BA's view.
BALPA are deeply concerned by the outright lies against the pilot community, and personal abuse of their reps by BASSA, and the grave impact BASSA's venom has on the business of the day - safely flying aeroplanes from A - B. Any suggestion BALPA are actively undermining BASSA is not helpful - besides, BASSA are self destructing anyhow, they don't need anyone elses help
I appreciate your comments are likely based on the CC89 startup, and I agree entirely with the rest of your excellent post!
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re: HeavyHeavy's post above
Ignorance is no excuse.. IMO.
Having said that, it is worrying that their only real choice in representation is the lying bunch at the top of UNITE/BASSA...
You should see their forum whenever people question the ballot.. "READ THE FACTS, ONLY 200ish VOLUNTEERS!", "THE ONLY PEOPLE TO TRUST AND LISTEN TO IS BASSA!!!".. Really, do they question anything? There are thousands of volunteers and Unite knows it.
While I feel sorry for the thousands of misrepresented cabin crew within our company, I do have to wonder why so few take the time to investigate claims and statements made by their union, especially since they're always made in such emotional fashion, and usually without much background information. I have a feeling they will be kicking themselves in a few months for not being a tiny bit more openminded about who's distorting the truth.. Then again, they will probably just blame management, and believe it would have been even worse if BASSA wasn't there to protect them.....
Let's hope for better times, and less lying, once the PCCC steps in. Hopefully sooner than later!
Having said that, it is worrying that their only real choice in representation is the lying bunch at the top of UNITE/BASSA...
You should see their forum whenever people question the ballot.. "READ THE FACTS, ONLY 200ish VOLUNTEERS!", "THE ONLY PEOPLE TO TRUST AND LISTEN TO IS BASSA!!!".. Really, do they question anything? There are thousands of volunteers and Unite knows it.
While I feel sorry for the thousands of misrepresented cabin crew within our company, I do have to wonder why so few take the time to investigate claims and statements made by their union, especially since they're always made in such emotional fashion, and usually without much background information. I have a feeling they will be kicking themselves in a few months for not being a tiny bit more openminded about who's distorting the truth.. Then again, they will probably just blame management, and believe it would have been even worse if BASSA wasn't there to protect them.....
Let's hope for better times, and less lying, once the PCCC steps in. Hopefully sooner than later!
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20,000 Volunteers
More like 20000 volunteers from Excel, Globespan, Virgin, BMI and BMIbaby who live in the real world.
PCC go! We need change and proper representation. Not this militant BASSA BS!
PCC go! We need change and proper representation. Not this militant BASSA BS!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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''Ladies and Gentlemen,good afternoon my name is B**** N*ser and I am your pretend CSDAngry on the flight.I would like to welcome our 2 passengers in Club World,you will getting two fillings in your sandwich and your Purser in that cabin is Captain Nigel.P.Ension on £156,000 per annum.For the six of you in W/T you will be getting one filling in your sandwich,your Purser is SFO Dave.T.Rawler on £96,000 per annum.There is no Purser in First or on the upper deck as we do not have enough crew to man those cabins.
For those of you who wish to buy Duty Free,you should have done it at London Heathrow as none of the crew know how to operare the Skybars.
Your Inflight entertainment today is your personal copy of the Daily Mail as I don't know how to operate the system.
If you have any problems on the 11 hour flight you will have to wait to wait to speak to the ground staff on arrival as I've never had to deal with a problem as this is my first flight in charge.
For anyone with medical problems I have a sticky plaster in my cabin bag (free of any union labels) otherwise we hope you have travel insurance.
If you need anything on the flight,just ask as we'll all be in the cabin and neither understand industrial agreements,breaks or to be truthful where the crew rest area is.
Finally in the event of an emergency good luck.
Thanks for listening and we hope you enjoy your flight on our Premium Global Airline''.
NJR. VOTING YES with an X
For those of you who wish to buy Duty Free,you should have done it at London Heathrow as none of the crew know how to operare the Skybars.
Your Inflight entertainment today is your personal copy of the Daily Mail as I don't know how to operate the system.
If you have any problems on the 11 hour flight you will have to wait to wait to speak to the ground staff on arrival as I've never had to deal with a problem as this is my first flight in charge.
For anyone with medical problems I have a sticky plaster in my cabin bag (free of any union labels) otherwise we hope you have travel insurance.
If you need anything on the flight,just ask as we'll all be in the cabin and neither understand industrial agreements,breaks or to be truthful where the crew rest area is.
Finally in the event of an emergency good luck.
Thanks for listening and we hope you enjoy your flight on our Premium Global Airline''.
NJR. VOTING YES with an X
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Makes me wish I was travelling myself now!
I think there would be a great atmosphere on a flight where pilots were helping out enthustiastic cabin crew. I'm sure that anyone capable of plotting ETOPS, operating FMS and autopilot systems would have no trouble figuring out where the reset button for the IFE was. Especially when it was pointed out to him by the rest of the cabin crew.
More importantly, it would help to break down barriers of mistrust and prove that pilots are humans like the rest of us and that they're all part of the same team, willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Go BA!
I think there would be a great atmosphere on a flight where pilots were helping out enthustiastic cabin crew. I'm sure that anyone capable of plotting ETOPS, operating FMS and autopilot systems would have no trouble figuring out where the reset button for the IFE was. Especially when it was pointed out to him by the rest of the cabin crew.
More importantly, it would help to break down barriers of mistrust and prove that pilots are humans like the rest of us and that they're all part of the same team, willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Go BA!
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"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome onboard this flight to XXX. Despite BASSA's best efforts, you will be getting to your destination today, and might even get to use your return ticket as the union will not bankrupt the company - making 10,000's of people lose their jobs.
You will see that despite verbal threats and namecalling by BASSA, thousands have volunteered to keep the company going, and your flight departing. These people, who actually understand the state of the business and the economy and have made sacrifices to protect their jobs, have all passed CAA approved SEP and AVMED programmes. They might not have done CPR before in real life, but then again there would be a 97% chance that on a full complement of normal crew nobody would have either. In fact, they have all recently passed their training so are all very current on teir procedures.
You will probably get a partial refund if you're travelling in FIRST or Club, although everybody knows that getting to your destination in a comfortable seat is much more important than our oven cooked meals and duty free bar (everything can be ordered onboard and sent to your home address via a form anyway!).
You might be surprised to hear that on today's flight to XXX (insert East Coast destination here), there will be no clearly audible complaining in the galley. This is due to the fact that your crew here today all appreciate their jobs for what they are, and value your business accordingly.
Finally, please observe the fasten seat belts sign, and cut the flight crew in the cabin some slack - they're not used to wearing skirts. Except on sundays.
We hope you enjoy your flight!"
You will see that despite verbal threats and namecalling by BASSA, thousands have volunteered to keep the company going, and your flight departing. These people, who actually understand the state of the business and the economy and have made sacrifices to protect their jobs, have all passed CAA approved SEP and AVMED programmes. They might not have done CPR before in real life, but then again there would be a 97% chance that on a full complement of normal crew nobody would have either. In fact, they have all recently passed their training so are all very current on teir procedures.
You will probably get a partial refund if you're travelling in FIRST or Club, although everybody knows that getting to your destination in a comfortable seat is much more important than our oven cooked meals and duty free bar (everything can be ordered onboard and sent to your home address via a form anyway!).
You might be surprised to hear that on today's flight to XXX (insert East Coast destination here), there will be no clearly audible complaining in the galley. This is due to the fact that your crew here today all appreciate their jobs for what they are, and value your business accordingly.
Finally, please observe the fasten seat belts sign, and cut the flight crew in the cabin some slack - they're not used to wearing skirts. Except on sundays.
We hope you enjoy your flight!"