British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Don't you worry we have friends on the ground too & they will be doing their best to ensure any flights crewed by volunteers, will not be going very far
Could anyone with access verify?
MissM?
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Just looks like sabre rattling to me. T5 will be full of senior managers on strike day. And if the post is true, haven't BASSA learnt their lesson after their humiliation at the High Court? Internet posts like that are dynamite in the hands of BA management.
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In view of certain claims made on this thread a few weeks ago - albeit quoting allegations posted on the BASSA forum:
Statement by the Judicial Communications Office, 20 Jan 2010
There has been a series of unfounded allegations that Mrs Justice Cox flew on British Airways over the recent Christmas/New Year holiday period.
The Judicial Communications Office announced today that Mrs Justice Cox did not fly with British Airways, or on any other airline, over the Christmas/New Year period.
Had the judge been intending to fly with British Airways she would have declared this fact and recused herself from hearing the case 'British Airways plc -v- Unite the Union' because of the obvious conflict of interest which would have arisen.
Statement by the Judicial Communications Office, 20 Jan 2010
Mrs Justice Cox
British Airways Plc –v– Unite the Union
British Airways Plc –v– Unite the Union
There has been a series of unfounded allegations that Mrs Justice Cox flew on British Airways over the recent Christmas/New Year holiday period.
The Judicial Communications Office announced today that Mrs Justice Cox did not fly with British Airways, or on any other airline, over the Christmas/New Year period.
Had the judge been intending to fly with British Airways she would have declared this fact and recused herself from hearing the case 'British Airways plc -v- Unite the Union' because of the obvious conflict of interest which would have arisen.
Ends
In a judicial context, ´recuse´ means to excuse oneself from a case because of a possible lack of impartiality or to avoid any suggestion of lack of impartiality.
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TheTiresome1
It's not very reasonable to compare our imposition to your wife's.
BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time. It's a very long step for us to take. Some would claim that BASSA has refused to negotiate in the past and I won't deny it. Maybe if previous managements had approached BASSA and asked for small bits instead. Again, some would now claim that they did and BASSA refused to listen.
TopBunk
1. You can forget that I am going to answer simply to "humour" you.
2. Not necessary. Look at EF and what has happened there and some crew are going on about it. BASSA proposed similiar crew changes, i.e. removal of pursers on 757 and 767 and have those positions replaced with main crew.
It's not very reasonable to compare our imposition to your wife's.
BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time. It's a very long step for us to take. Some would claim that BASSA has refused to negotiate in the past and I won't deny it. Maybe if previous managements had approached BASSA and asked for small bits instead. Again, some would now claim that they did and BASSA refused to listen.
TopBunk
1. You can forget that I am going to answer simply to "humour" you.
2. Not necessary. Look at EF and what has happened there and some crew are going on about it. BASSA proposed similiar crew changes, i.e. removal of pursers on 757 and 767 and have those positions replaced with main crew.
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MissM,
Fair enough.
I thought that perhaps you would be in a position to confirm that this was rubbish.
I think it unlikely that anyone would be so foolish.... although my source sounded pretty sure and is usually reliable.
Fair enough.
I thought that perhaps you would be in a position to confirm that this was rubbish.
I think it unlikely that anyone would be so foolish.... although my source sounded pretty sure and is usually reliable.
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I would like to think, given Mr Walsh's intellect and pre-planning, that this website [and others] are being monitored and/or downloaded. I understand technology is very clever these days.
MissM - she's not tiresome at all!
But the savings HAVE to be achieved, MissM, and you are not being asked to take "a very long step" - just to do what other colleagues in BA do, and which other airlines do for less money. One fewer crew and the CSD does a bit of helping out. Is that honestly an Armageddon scenario? Is that the position from which to declare war on BA and the travelling public?
Thanks for the admission on BASSA.
MissM - she's not tiresome at all!
TheTiresome1
It's not very reasonable to compare our imposition to your wife's.
BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time. It's a very long step for us to take. Some would claim that BASSA has refused to negotiate in the past and I won't deny it. Maybe if previous managements had approached BASSA and asked for small bits instead. Again, some would now claim that they did and BASSA refused to listen.
It's not very reasonable to compare our imposition to your wife's.
BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time. It's a very long step for us to take. Some would claim that BASSA has refused to negotiate in the past and I won't deny it. Maybe if previous managements had approached BASSA and asked for small bits instead. Again, some would now claim that they did and BASSA refused to listen.
Thanks for the admission on BASSA.
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BA is asking for a lot of money. They are asking for almost £150 million and we need to do these savings in a very short time. It's a very long step for us to take. Some would claim that BASSA has refused to negotiate in the past and I won't deny it. Maybe if previous managements had approached BASSA and asked for small bits instead. Again, some would now claim that they did and BASSA refused to listen.
Im not sure about "claim" though. "State the fact" might be a better choice of words.
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Dave747436,
I can confirm that it is on cf. The sad thing is that it doesn't even surprise me anymore.
On a different note, it seems that unite are getting worried about the PCCC already:
This was sent out to unite cc members via email:
EMAILS FROM 'THE PROFESSIONAL CABIN CREW COUNCIL'
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
Unite seem to think that the PCCC is a BA management initiative. I can categorically state that this was not, nor has it ever been the brainchild of BA management. We are Cabin Crew (not pilots, that some would like to believe).
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
I can confirm that it is on cf. The sad thing is that it doesn't even surprise me anymore.
On a different note, it seems that unite are getting worried about the PCCC already:
This was sent out to unite cc members via email:
EMAILS FROM 'THE PROFESSIONAL CABIN CREW COUNCIL'
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
Unite seem to think that the PCCC is a BA management initiative. I can categorically state that this was not, nor has it ever been the brainchild of BA management. We are Cabin Crew (not pilots, that some would like to believe).
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by Glamgirl; 20th Jan 2010 at 18:32. Reason: slight tecnical problem
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This was sent out to unite cc members via email:
EMAILS FROM 'THE PROFESSIONAL CABIN CREW COUNCIL'
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
Unite seem to think that the PCCC is a BA management initiative. I can categorically state that this was not, nor has it ever been the brainchild of BA management. We are Cabin Crew (not pilots, that some would like to believe).
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
EMAILS FROM 'THE PROFESSIONAL CABIN CREW COUNCIL'
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
Unite seem to think that the PCCC is a BA management initiative. I can categorically state that this was not, nor has it ever been the brainchild of BA management. We are Cabin Crew (not pilots, that some would like to believe).
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by TorC; 20th Jan 2010 at 18:53. Reason: replaced "unite" with "bassa"
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I wonder if there will be an opening up of recruitment externally?
Let's take this scenario. BA could set up a conversion course for people with recent cabin crew expereience. Could train the basics in one week and give many people the opportunity to work for BA, who have lots their jobs by their company going under or being made redundant.
There are many experienced crew out there who are out of jobs and would be willing to work at BA. Come on guys, compare yourselves with other airlines and you have it good!
Let's take this scenario. BA could set up a conversion course for people with recent cabin crew expereience. Could train the basics in one week and give many people the opportunity to work for BA, who have lots their jobs by their company going under or being made redundant.
There are many experienced crew out there who are out of jobs and would be willing to work at BA. Come on guys, compare yourselves with other airlines and you have it good!
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EMAILS FROM 'THE PROFESSIONAL CABIN CREW COUNCIL'
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
We believe that BA management are setting up a ‘Professional Cabin Crew Council’ and have had reports of members being sent anonymous emails regarding the setting up of this council. If you receive any emails or correspondence please pass them onto us in confidence so that we can find out who is behind this venture. This ‘Council’ is not a recognised trade union and if crew join it they will not have the safety and security of being in a proper trade union. Be under no illusion, this ‘Council’ is purely a way of eroding the power of your union (the largest in the UK.) The company have clearly got no interest in what you as a crew member think about your job.
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I wonder if there will be an opening up of recruitment externally?
Let's take this scenario. BA could set up a conversion course for people with recent cabin crew expereience. Could train the basics in one week and give many people the opportunity to work for BA, who have lots their jobs by their company going under or being made redundant.
There are many experienced crew out there who are out of jobs and would be willing to work at BA. Come on guys, compare yourselves with other airlines and you have it good!
Let's take this scenario. BA could set up a conversion course for people with recent cabin crew expereience. Could train the basics in one week and give many people the opportunity to work for BA, who have lots their jobs by their company going under or being made redundant.
There are many experienced crew out there who are out of jobs and would be willing to work at BA. Come on guys, compare yourselves with other airlines and you have it good!
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Apologize for regressing the thread to the previous pages about folks volunteering during a possible IA. But just saw all of these updates.
For those of us who use BA frequently, in my case numerous times a year in Club World, we who are living stateside can volunteer too. Having taken an early retirement from business, sent an email saying I'd be happy to work as a volunteer anywhere in my local American airport for BA if any of their stateside staff want to volunteer for cabin crew duty. That could free up more staff in a crisis.
Passengers all over the world have a stake in keeping BA flying, as we recently learned during the possible 12 day Christmas season fiasco (into which I was caught up big time).
So if you are stateisde and want to help BA out, maybe some of us can volunteer to replace a staffer (albeit not as efficiently as the pros of course) working in one of the U.S. airports.
Even if they can't accept the gesture due to FAA restrictions (security etc), at least we tried. And many of us in the D.C. area already hold extensive security clearances that wouldn't take any time at all to reactivate and might be even higher than some required at airports?
I'm not anti-union, having been a member once and dealt with both sides. But BA needs to keep flying while staff and management sort themselves.
For those of us who use BA frequently, in my case numerous times a year in Club World, we who are living stateside can volunteer too. Having taken an early retirement from business, sent an email saying I'd be happy to work as a volunteer anywhere in my local American airport for BA if any of their stateside staff want to volunteer for cabin crew duty. That could free up more staff in a crisis.
Passengers all over the world have a stake in keeping BA flying, as we recently learned during the possible 12 day Christmas season fiasco (into which I was caught up big time).
So if you are stateisde and want to help BA out, maybe some of us can volunteer to replace a staffer (albeit not as efficiently as the pros of course) working in one of the U.S. airports.
Even if they can't accept the gesture due to FAA restrictions (security etc), at least we tried. And many of us in the D.C. area already hold extensive security clearances that wouldn't take any time at all to reactivate and might be even higher than some required at airports?
I'm not anti-union, having been a member once and dealt with both sides. But BA needs to keep flying while staff and management sort themselves.
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Hello all,
I am a member (former member?) of BA's pilot hold pool. I wrote to BA yesterday also volunteering to help if required as I very much want BA to survive and prosper so they will recruit and expand in the (near?) future. I got a very quick and appreciative reply this morning from a senior BA Capt. He said that unfortunately due to the legalities of employing individuals from outside BA they are unable to use me. Only people from within BA's present work force could be used. I guess this would also apply to the CC hold pool and any recent retiree's?
Big Brutha I don't know why but one of my post from a couple of days ago has been deleted. Maybe because it was off topic, but you have rightly been criticising those who want to bring BA down. I obviously don't understand the technology but you said you have only been on pprune for a couple of years yet your join date says Jun 2001 and in the post that A Lurker alluded to you say,
my bold
Can you explain this?
Regards
I am a member (former member?) of BA's pilot hold pool. I wrote to BA yesterday also volunteering to help if required as I very much want BA to survive and prosper so they will recruit and expand in the (near?) future. I got a very quick and appreciative reply this morning from a senior BA Capt. He said that unfortunately due to the legalities of employing individuals from outside BA they are unable to use me. Only people from within BA's present work force could be used. I guess this would also apply to the CC hold pool and any recent retiree's?
Big Brutha I don't know why but one of my post from a couple of days ago has been deleted. Maybe because it was off topic, but you have rightly been criticising those who want to bring BA down. I obviously don't understand the technology but you said you have only been on pprune for a couple of years yet your join date says Jun 2001 and in the post that A Lurker alluded to you say,
I can vouch for approximately 50ish pilots here, and they are all prepared to see the company go under if thats what it takes. With respect, its completely irrelevant what the general public or indeed other pilot groups think.
Can you explain this?
Regards
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MissM,
You seem to be a sensible and intelligent woman. You give good and honest answers unlike some militant crew members who either give very vague answers or none at all. I can acknowledge that you receive many replies and that you probably do your very best to reply each and every one of them.
You say that you do not always agree with BASSA. You say that you read everything everything received from both BA and BASSA carefully. It is a good sign that you are wanting to do research and base your decisions on facts and own opinions and not by what your fellow crew members or union are telling you. I understand you do not trust BA Management after having been lied straight into your face and it is understandable to take a suspicious stand.
Please, think about your vote.
Please, think about your actions.
Please, think about your colleagues and not only your cabin crew colleagues.
Please, think about your income.
Please, think about your job.
Please, think about your future.
Please, do not let BASSA lead you down the road of unemployment.
BASSA is acting purely after own interest because of their personal anger towards BA and they will sacrify you.
You are still very young. Are you willing to sacrify your job because of pure and evil greediness of your selfish union? Will they be there if you lose your job?
Please, do yourself a favour and give BA Management a bit of faith and trust them. Just this time. They will save your job. BASSA will not.
You seem to be a sensible and intelligent woman. You give good and honest answers unlike some militant crew members who either give very vague answers or none at all. I can acknowledge that you receive many replies and that you probably do your very best to reply each and every one of them.
You say that you do not always agree with BASSA. You say that you read everything everything received from both BA and BASSA carefully. It is a good sign that you are wanting to do research and base your decisions on facts and own opinions and not by what your fellow crew members or union are telling you. I understand you do not trust BA Management after having been lied straight into your face and it is understandable to take a suspicious stand.
Please, think about your vote.
Please, think about your actions.
Please, think about your colleagues and not only your cabin crew colleagues.
Please, think about your income.
Please, think about your job.
Please, think about your future.
Please, do not let BASSA lead you down the road of unemployment.
BASSA is acting purely after own interest because of their personal anger towards BA and they will sacrify you.
You are still very young. Are you willing to sacrify your job because of pure and evil greediness of your selfish union? Will they be there if you lose your job?
Please, do yourself a favour and give BA Management a bit of faith and trust them. Just this time. They will save your job. BASSA will not.
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Flaps 40
Thank you for that information. Can you say where it is available?
Its strange and kind of puts "other forums" into perspective, I have seen posts of people swearing blind that she flew with BA, and that certain people had both her PNR numbers and even credit card details.
In fact BASSA et al did nothing to quash these unsubstantiated vindictive rumours which spreed around their website, the website that most British Airways Cabin Crew perceive is "the truth and nothing but the truth"
Perhaps some of Pprunes BASSA members would care to comment on the Judicial Communications Office statement?
I would not expect BASSA to be broadcasting the outcome of the review on their website
Its strange and kind of puts "other forums" into perspective, I have seen posts of people swearing blind that she flew with BA, and that certain people had both her PNR numbers and even credit card details.
In fact BASSA et al did nothing to quash these unsubstantiated vindictive rumours which spreed around their website, the website that most British Airways Cabin Crew perceive is "the truth and nothing but the truth"
Perhaps some of Pprunes BASSA members would care to comment on the Judicial Communications Office statement?
I would not expect BASSA to be broadcasting the outcome of the review on their website
Last edited by Da Dog; 20th Jan 2010 at 20:21.