British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Why is Unite as bad for representing the views and interests of its members??
Other departments are predicted to register failure to agree also.
Prehaps the pilots are now bitter for selling out too early who knows.
All this nonsense for coming on marches over open skies and asking cc for support and when the shoes on the other support the selfishness rears its ugly head
Other departments are predicted to register failure to agree also.
Prehaps the pilots are now bitter for selling out too early who knows.
All this nonsense for coming on marches over open skies and asking cc for support and when the shoes on the other support the selfishness rears its ugly head
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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In precis of my previous (now disappeared - I thought it was relevant 
) post, the cabin crew need decent representation by decent reps.
Not so much by BALPA as like BALPA.
) post, the cabin crew need decent representation by decent reps.Not so much by BALPA as like BALPA.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Originally Posted by am i bothered
Prehaps the pilots are now bitter for selling out too early who knows.
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It's going to be interesting if Unite register a failure to agree for the other work groups tomorrow. I wonder what the reaction will be amongst GSS when Unite try to explain how they've gone from a solution their own BA union reps recommended to a centrally organised strike ballot in support of the cabin crew.
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Originally Posted by am i bothered
Why is Unite as bad for representing the views and interests of its members??
Other departments are predicted to register failure to agree also.
Why is Unite as bad for representing the views and interests of its members??
Other departments are predicted to register failure to agree also.
BA even offered an extension to the June 30th deadline to ground staff as an agreement was that close to being made.
am i bothered Please explain to me how being tied to the cabin crew can be anything but disastrous for the ground staff who will now face the prospect of an imposed deal as opposed to an agreed deal.
Last edited by Perry-oaks; 24th Jul 2009 at 07:59.
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Whilst BASSA members get all of the relevant information and a vote I'm not sure what CC89 members get even tho they are part of the same union .
Will be interesting to see whether the two branches now stick together or whether Amicus, as previously, forge their own path. They had 100% vote for continued negotiations at the last meeting - as opposed to the BASSA 100% against!
Can Amicus register a failure to agree, without first consulting the members, if the members voted for continued negotiations? They need to stay true to their members' desire for continued negotiations, and not be led by BASSA.
Amicus (new name for CC89)
Unite was formed by a merger between two of Britain's' leading unions, the T&G and Amicus
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It takes 3 years to train a GP, but only 15 months to train a pilot
Following that, it takes up to 6 months to complete a type rating and line training before being unleashed as a junior F/O. Starting pay is in the region of £20,000 to £30,000.
At this point you only have a Commercial Licence (CPL) and are not licenced to fly in command of airliners. That takes at least 1500 hours of experience which could take 2 - 3 years. Even then, no airline is likely to get insurance for a 1500 hour pilot to be in command but even if they did that's 4 - 6 years from start of training.
In BA, you need to have 2000 hours experience on medium jets before being elligible for command plus at least one year in the company. Those are flying hours, not duty hours and so will probably take 3 - 4 years to acquire.
So even if the seniority system allowed it, a new cadet would have to wait at least 5 years after basic training before getting a short haul command and probably nearer 10 years.
Do you still think you can train a pilot in 15 months?
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it also shows a complete ignorance of the medical profession as it takes far longer to train a GP, not least 5 years at medical school after which you are far from being able to go into general practise....if you arte going to make comparisons between professions, at least do some research 
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The militant lot are at it once again, by posting rubbish on the SkyNews website...
I don't know about the rest of you folks here, but it seems to me that certain posters come on here every so often just to stir up and then leave again, to see what happens.
I really do think that all the spouting on various forums makes some people look silly and uninformed, but that's just my opinion of course.
Gg
I don't know about the rest of you folks here, but it seems to me that certain posters come on here every so often just to stir up and then leave again, to see what happens.
I really do think that all the spouting on various forums makes some people look silly and uninformed, but that's just my opinion of course.
Gg
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Bassa are walking into a firestorm - no idea what's going to hit them.
If they think that BA will be impressed and back down when faced with 80% for a strike ballot after a 60% return, they'll be soon disappointed.
Not that Bassa have anthing to strike over.....yet.
If they think that BA will be impressed and back down when faced with 80% for a strike ballot after a 60% return, they'll be soon disappointed.
Not that Bassa have anthing to strike over.....yet.
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They reckon they'll be even stronger now, as they think the Gss and Check-in staff will fail to agree as well. Not been confirmed yet, of course, by that is obviously just a minor detail...
I'm getting very tired of all the kindergarten behaviour, I must say
Gg
I'm getting very tired of all the kindergarten behaviour, I must say
Gg
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One does find the same old childlike disdain for Trades Unions rather distasteful.
Let me assure you, in the Terminals on the Ramp and Check In (and the Watersplash clerical workers) both GMB and Unite are standing solidly with the Cabin Crew in total rejection of any contractual changes. I hope a strike can be avoided, but if it comes to the crunch, based on the show of hands at our mass meetings, I would expect almost 100% support.
There are quite a few issues which can't be divulged, at this stage, to which no sane British worker would ever willingly agree. As long as everyone remains solidly opposed to the change of contracts, BA cannot force the issue legally so I don't really see the need for a strike.
Both sides need a cooling off period to gather their thoughts and then get back to talking. Eventually a compromise agreement will be reached I am sure.
Casting blame on anyone, Management, BASSA or Ground Staff will not help anyone - please stop it now and give both sides breathing space!
Let me assure you, in the Terminals on the Ramp and Check In (and the Watersplash clerical workers) both GMB and Unite are standing solidly with the Cabin Crew in total rejection of any contractual changes. I hope a strike can be avoided, but if it comes to the crunch, based on the show of hands at our mass meetings, I would expect almost 100% support.
There are quite a few issues which can't be divulged, at this stage, to which no sane British worker would ever willingly agree. As long as everyone remains solidly opposed to the change of contracts, BA cannot force the issue legally so I don't really see the need for a strike.
Both sides need a cooling off period to gather their thoughts and then get back to talking. Eventually a compromise agreement will be reached I am sure.
Casting blame on anyone, Management, BASSA or Ground Staff will not help anyone - please stop it now and give both sides breathing space!
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Let me assure you, in the Terminals on the Ramp and Check In (and the Watersplash clerical workers) both GMB and Unite are standing solidly with the Cabin Crew in total rejection of any contractual changes. I hope a strike can be avoided, but if it comes to the crunch, based on the show of hands at our mass meetings, I would expect almost 100% support.
From your posts its clear you're living in the 70s. Times have changed.....
Last edited by air_wolf; 24th Jul 2009 at 23:37.
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Bealine
Unless they use SOSR, which (if you'd read this thread thoroughly) you'd begin to see requires very little "evidence of necessity" on BA's part in order to IMPOSE new contracts on us.
Others, who appear far better educated than me on this subject, seem pretty certain that Willie will block any strike with a legal challenge. So, you'd better hope that BASSA haven't made even the slightest mistake in any of the build-up to industrial action. I get their letters all the time and they're more fantasy than fact and little more than playground taunts. Meat and drink to Willie imo.
Be sure that you're backing the right horse if you follow BASSA out on strike. You're braver than me if you do and doubly brave in the current climate - especially against Willie, who seems unlikely to shower the perceived troublemakers in Hotline tickets as his predecessor did.
Nutjob
[Ecstatic about all the changes I appear destined to have forced upon me, simply because my union is acting like children]
[And hoping against hope for a decent redundancy offer - and not fancying my chances!]
As long as everyone remains solidly opposed to the change of contracts, BA cannot force the issue legally
Others, who appear far better educated than me on this subject, seem pretty certain that Willie will block any strike with a legal challenge. So, you'd better hope that BASSA haven't made even the slightest mistake in any of the build-up to industrial action. I get their letters all the time and they're more fantasy than fact and little more than playground taunts. Meat and drink to Willie imo.
Be sure that you're backing the right horse if you follow BASSA out on strike. You're braver than me if you do and doubly brave in the current climate - especially against Willie, who seems unlikely to shower the perceived troublemakers in Hotline tickets as his predecessor did.
Nutjob
[Ecstatic about all the changes I appear destined to have forced upon me, simply because my union is acting like children]
[And hoping against hope for a decent redundancy offer - and not fancying my chances!]
Last edited by Nutjob; 25th Jul 2009 at 09:37.
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This has now gone beyond what is in the best interests of Cabin Crew, Ground staff etc,
UNITE and the GMB have now made this about union breaking, therefore do not expect any agreement in the next couple of weeks, only soviet style rhetoric and a ballot for strike action.
UNITE and the GMB have now made this about union breaking, therefore do not expect any agreement in the next couple of weeks, only soviet style rhetoric and a ballot for strike action.
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Not seeking to inflame here, but found a couple of comments on another forum which shocked me:
"I cannot look at our horizontal, 2 breaks, 5 bellys aircraft drivers without thinking the 4 letter "C" word. I arrived at the T5 crew report centre the other day and could'nt help myself saying the "C" word under my breath as I passed by them. Is it just me? I could'nt even acknowledge them on my trip or look them in the eye. Thank goodness I did'nt have to cater for them or listen to them mincing for a tea or coffee. At the hotel swimming pool I could'nt help myself but to blank the skipper as I passed by. Whats happening to me? Am I stereotyping them all with the same brush. Let me get this right.... BALPA are not supporting us cabin crew? BALPA are all BA pilots? If crew strike and sink BA, then all BALPA members loose their jobs and pensions right?? So why do they not support us? Because they are all "C****" and I'm alright JACK, excuse the lingo."
and...
"Did they pick up the check? Thought not! The reason they did not say anything was to keep you sweet. They know that if they said anything negative we/ you would jump down their throats. Yes very wise and professional of them not to say anything. They have not got a clue! They would feel even more isolated if they do not have anyone to go out for dinner with. They're there to manage the flight deck and play on their Iphones, nothing else....pathetic.... "
The picking up the check thing is about someone saying they had dinner with some pilots that were ok.
Seriously, I'm ashamed that we have people like this in our company. It's not professional, it's very immature and if this is an indication as to the attitude of the militants, then we do have some great worries ahead of us.
Still not been able to get answers to my questions to some posters on here.. Where have they gone? Maybe to pull a switch near the bunks...?
Gg
"I cannot look at our horizontal, 2 breaks, 5 bellys aircraft drivers without thinking the 4 letter "C" word. I arrived at the T5 crew report centre the other day and could'nt help myself saying the "C" word under my breath as I passed by them. Is it just me? I could'nt even acknowledge them on my trip or look them in the eye. Thank goodness I did'nt have to cater for them or listen to them mincing for a tea or coffee. At the hotel swimming pool I could'nt help myself but to blank the skipper as I passed by. Whats happening to me? Am I stereotyping them all with the same brush. Let me get this right.... BALPA are not supporting us cabin crew? BALPA are all BA pilots? If crew strike and sink BA, then all BALPA members loose their jobs and pensions right?? So why do they not support us? Because they are all "C****" and I'm alright JACK, excuse the lingo."
and...
"Did they pick up the check? Thought not! The reason they did not say anything was to keep you sweet. They know that if they said anything negative we/ you would jump down their throats. Yes very wise and professional of them not to say anything. They have not got a clue! They would feel even more isolated if they do not have anyone to go out for dinner with. They're there to manage the flight deck and play on their Iphones, nothing else....pathetic.... "
The picking up the check thing is about someone saying they had dinner with some pilots that were ok.
Seriously, I'm ashamed that we have people like this in our company. It's not professional, it's very immature and if this is an indication as to the attitude of the militants, then we do have some great worries ahead of us.
Still not been able to get answers to my questions to some posters on here.. Where have they gone? Maybe to pull a switch near the bunks...?
Gg
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The thing is Glamgirl that attitude is commonplace amongst some of your LHR colleagues, and existed long before the current dispute. What amuses me most is that they have the vanity to believe that their behaviour is some sort of sanction against the pilots, and that we are in some way upset that they choose not to socialise with us. The reality is quite the opposite! We can spot the ones with attitude problems a mile off and are quite pleased when they voluntarily segregate themselves. It means we can have a pleasant time with the more normal members of our crew without having the you-know-whos whispering behind our backs all evening.
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CM,
I understand what you're saying, but my previous post is a shining example of how detrimental (sp?) to CRM this attitude is. To not even say hello to someone just because they happen to wear a slightly different uniform amazes me, nevermind tarring everyone with the same brush.
I've met a couple of pilots who I didn't particularly like or get on with, but I would still be professional and treat them politely and with courtesy. Just as I've met cc with same scenario.
A big concern for me is how these kind of people (as described in previous post) can call themselves professionals and a "people person" and are supposed to be trusted to treat our passengers with great customer service.
Gg
I understand what you're saying, but my previous post is a shining example of how detrimental (sp?) to CRM this attitude is. To not even say hello to someone just because they happen to wear a slightly different uniform amazes me, nevermind tarring everyone with the same brush.
I've met a couple of pilots who I didn't particularly like or get on with, but I would still be professional and treat them politely and with courtesy. Just as I've met cc with same scenario.
A big concern for me is how these kind of people (as described in previous post) can call themselves professionals and a "people person" and are supposed to be trusted to treat our passengers with great customer service.
Gg