British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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...and why did BASSA refuse to sigh tne Non Disclosure Agreement which would have allowed them the opportunity to scrutinise the parlous financial state of OUR company?
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Can't cope with grammar or punctuation though.
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Just add to the list Purser off the 767 on Eurofleet and not to be replaced by main crew,Purser off 757 replaced by main crew and so many more reasons to vote yes on the ballot sheet. Good luck to the BASSA team at the High Court today the fightback has started.
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IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE
QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
COURT 64
Before MR JUSTICE BUTTERFIELD
Thursday, 5th November 2009
At half past 10
APPLICATION NOTICE
IHQ/09/0971 Malone v British Airways Plc
QUEEN'S BENCH DIVISION
COURT 64
Before MR JUSTICE BUTTERFIELD
Thursday, 5th November 2009
At half past 10
APPLICATION NOTICE
IHQ/09/0971 Malone v British Airways Plc
So, any legal-beagles know if this is in 'open' court? Any reporters there?
How will we know the outcome?
I assume if BASSA 'win' we will know about it pretty sharpish, guess if we don't hear all the crew phones beeping by tea time we will know what has happened.
I also see the BASSA QC is off to court again on Friday to try and get an injunction to stop the post office using their 30,000 temps.
Just out of interest, anyone really been affected by the Post Office strikes... no, thought not. Doesn't seem to be in the news much either... Not a huge amount of support... Seen the picket lines on the news? 1000's of people there? No.
Take note.
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Perhaps those with an interest in continuity of employment, should consider the fate of the BMI staff recently sacked due to the downturn in air travel. BA is not immune from the downturn and if the dispute does escalate, it may have detrimental effect on those who seek to pursue it.
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Misdirected Anger!
It's very sad to see this thread degenerating into a virtual civil cyber war!
I suggest, if we're going to fling mud around, it should be directed at the British Airways overstuffed management who have destroyed the company!
Whatever happened to the British Airways' team spirit we used to pride ourselves on? If only the management could only have harnessed that raw power, energy and loyalty in a positive way, we could have taken the world by storm!
I understand that our own Ground Staff union talks are making progress. Whether or not I will be able to afford to remain with BA in the long-term remains to be seen, but, despite my earlier posts where I stated I don't really care what happens to BA, I don't really want to see it destroyed. I have far too many happy memories.
FWIW, I am receiving reports from staff at handling agents and airlines at Heathrow and Gatwick that their management are treating the staff with derision as well - BA is not on its own!
Our day will come when we can exact vengeance on the people who are really responsible for this fiasco. Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!
I think the time has come for all of us, Staff, (Decent) Managers, Pilots, Cabin Crew (whether BASSA or not), Engineers, Ground Staff and all to shake hands and remember that we are all come under the fabulous Speedmark that made BA what it is! ..............(not that stupid ribbon that Ayling introduced..)
PLEASE - someone get into the room with Willie Walsh, BASSA, UNITE, GMB and the management and knock their bloody heads together until they agree on something! Even the threat that there just might be industrial action is affecting our forward bookings.
I suggest, if we're going to fling mud around, it should be directed at the British Airways overstuffed management who have destroyed the company!
Whatever happened to the British Airways' team spirit we used to pride ourselves on? If only the management could only have harnessed that raw power, energy and loyalty in a positive way, we could have taken the world by storm!
I understand that our own Ground Staff union talks are making progress. Whether or not I will be able to afford to remain with BA in the long-term remains to be seen, but, despite my earlier posts where I stated I don't really care what happens to BA, I don't really want to see it destroyed. I have far too many happy memories.
FWIW, I am receiving reports from staff at handling agents and airlines at Heathrow and Gatwick that their management are treating the staff with derision as well - BA is not on its own!
Our day will come when we can exact vengeance on the people who are really responsible for this fiasco. Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!
I think the time has come for all of us, Staff, (Decent) Managers, Pilots, Cabin Crew (whether BASSA or not), Engineers, Ground Staff and all to shake hands and remember that we are all come under the fabulous Speedmark that made BA what it is! ..............(not that stupid ribbon that Ayling introduced..)
PLEASE - someone get into the room with Willie Walsh, BASSA, UNITE, GMB and the management and knock their bloody heads together until they agree on something! Even the threat that there just might be industrial action is affecting our forward bookings.
bealine
"Our day will come when we can exact vengeance on the people who are really responsible for this fiasco".
Yep, we can give the politicians a bloody nose at the General Election next year , though I don't see any chance of extracting vengance on the Banking Sector"
"Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!"
And go where? As you said, BA is not alone in the way it treats it's staff.
And, whilst, I agree that heads need knocking together that's probably against EG something, "bullying and harrasment" and also 'elf and safety regs.....
Yep, we can give the politicians a bloody nose at the General Election next year , though I don't see any chance of extracting vengance on the Banking Sector"
"Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!"
And go where? As you said, BA is not alone in the way it treats it's staff.
And, whilst, I agree that heads need knocking together that's probably against EG something, "bullying and harrasment" and also 'elf and safety regs.....
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Ok people, you are all supposedly adults with the capability of grasping the written word. So the continued bringing up of the pilots´deal despite repeated requests not to, is a matter of "the rules don´t apply to me".
They do.
Moderating a thread is one thing, having to clean up continuously after adults who leave whatever cr@p anywhere they please is something else.
Fair warning:
You post about the pilots´deal, you are banned from this thread.
You go for the personal attack rather than the debating of arguments, you are banned.
They do.
Moderating a thread is one thing, having to clean up continuously after adults who leave whatever cr@p anywhere they please is something else.
Fair warning:
You post about the pilots´deal, you are banned from this thread.
You go for the personal attack rather than the debating of arguments, you are banned.
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Bealine, I understand and sympathise with your comments and your final plea!
Our day will come when we can exact vengeance on the people who are really responsible for this fiasco. Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!
This will never happen. There is no way BA or any other company will sit down in the future and say we're in this mess because of actions taken a few years ago. They will have moved on and will take steps to rectify the situation at the time. As hard as it is to accept, nobody is indispensable and nobody leaving will ever leave BA in the lurch. It's a nice thought but BA is far too big and for every one person leaving BA there is many many waiting to take their place. Like most companies today BA simply need to have a person in a position that can perform a given job at the time it is required. This of course does not apply to BA alone, unfortunately it's the way the world is today.
Our day will come when we can exact vengeance on the people who are really responsible for this fiasco. Once the recesiion eases and job vacancies return, many good people with years of experience, the airlines' and handlers' real assets, will disappear and leave their former employers in the lurch!
This will never happen. There is no way BA or any other company will sit down in the future and say we're in this mess because of actions taken a few years ago. They will have moved on and will take steps to rectify the situation at the time. As hard as it is to accept, nobody is indispensable and nobody leaving will ever leave BA in the lurch. It's a nice thought but BA is far too big and for every one person leaving BA there is many many waiting to take their place. Like most companies today BA simply need to have a person in a position that can perform a given job at the time it is required. This of course does not apply to BA alone, unfortunately it's the way the world is today.
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Well said Flapsforty 
As someone who would like to work for BA in the future its a shame there is such animosity between front and back. Once on board the aircraft safety and creating the best possible passenger experience should be the overriding priority of the whole team, so the said passengers come back again and again.
As someone who would like to work for BA in the future its a shame there is such animosity between front and back. Once on board the aircraft safety and creating the best possible passenger experience should be the overriding priority of the whole team, so the said passengers come back again and again.
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Beerdrinker, thanx 4 that post.
Am I right in saying that in the future, aircraft goes to LA for example, old crew get two nights rest local, new crew get one night rest and are back in the UK when old crew are still resting in LA ?
If I am right, will this not cause problems in the cabin with crew who may not be happy about this deal.
If I am right, new crew will used on routes to max savings for the company, old crew will be used to keep costs at a min, in the future all the two nights local flights will be crewed by new starters.
This reminds me of a time when new starters were not allowed to join NAPS and BARP was started, that was ok for old staff for a while, but then time went by and this set up was helpful in reducing T+Cs in both APS and NAPS.
It appears to me deal is ok for old crew now and will have company savings built in with the new starters, problem will be for old crew on old deal who intend staying in this job for a long time, would guess inside 4 years from now, two nights local rest will be gone, plus more changes.
Looks like CC unions have done a good job for their members, guess they will try and improve the deal before they accept it.
Am I right in saying that in the future, aircraft goes to LA for example, old crew get two nights rest local, new crew get one night rest and are back in the UK when old crew are still resting in LA ?
If I am right, will this not cause problems in the cabin with crew who may not be happy about this deal.
If I am right, new crew will used on routes to max savings for the company, old crew will be used to keep costs at a min, in the future all the two nights local flights will be crewed by new starters.
This reminds me of a time when new starters were not allowed to join NAPS and BARP was started, that was ok for old staff for a while, but then time went by and this set up was helpful in reducing T+Cs in both APS and NAPS.
It appears to me deal is ok for old crew now and will have company savings built in with the new starters, problem will be for old crew on old deal who intend staying in this job for a long time, would guess inside 4 years from now, two nights local rest will be gone, plus more changes.
Looks like CC unions have done a good job for their members, guess they will try and improve the deal before they accept it.
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Not quite, Binsleepen.
I can tell you that on the whole in my many years in BA, I've had a fairly good rapport with our Flight Crew colleagues. I don't bear a grudge against them in any shape or form. They do their job and we do ours. We are all paid accordingly for what we do and good on BALPA for getting a reeasonable deal for our Pilots.
The reason that we as CC earn what I call a fairly decent salary, is BA have been paying us according to the expensive fares they charged passengers for several years. With the downturn in travel and the general state of the economy, fares have had to come down. However not everyone appreciates this as our flights are full on most days, but what they don't realise is most passengers have paid very little for their tickets.
Our TUs have to get back to the table and negotiate, they have no choice. Striking is not the way forward and I will not and do not support it. It's a Deathwish.
Change has to happen and most of what BA proposes is reasonable, but to take a Purser off a 767 is a big mistake. On full flights to Athens, Istanbul, Larnaca and Moscow, these flights are a nightmare at the best of times for both the CSd and the Purser on board.
What I 'd like to know is what happens when the CSD is taken ill on aflight and unable to operate. Who is going to take charge of the flight? Surely not a main crew member with very little experience.
I can tell you that on the whole in my many years in BA, I've had a fairly good rapport with our Flight Crew colleagues. I don't bear a grudge against them in any shape or form. They do their job and we do ours. We are all paid accordingly for what we do and good on BALPA for getting a reeasonable deal for our Pilots.
The reason that we as CC earn what I call a fairly decent salary, is BA have been paying us according to the expensive fares they charged passengers for several years. With the downturn in travel and the general state of the economy, fares have had to come down. However not everyone appreciates this as our flights are full on most days, but what they don't realise is most passengers have paid very little for their tickets.
Our TUs have to get back to the table and negotiate, they have no choice. Striking is not the way forward and I will not and do not support it. It's a Deathwish.
Change has to happen and most of what BA proposes is reasonable, but to take a Purser off a 767 is a big mistake. On full flights to Athens, Istanbul, Larnaca and Moscow, these flights are a nightmare at the best of times for both the CSd and the Purser on board.
What I 'd like to know is what happens when the CSD is taken ill on aflight and unable to operate. Who is going to take charge of the flight? Surely not a main crew member with very little experience.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 5th Nov 2009 at 12:04. Reason: Punctuation
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Tiramasu
You can be in charge of a cabin with 1 year's experience.
In the situation you describe I'm sure the most senior crew member will 'step up to the plate'. People have the ability to rise to the occasion! Besides, do you not think that the flight crew might have the experience to offer advice?
You can be in charge of a cabin with 1 year's experience.
In the situation you describe I'm sure the most senior crew member will 'step up to the plate'. People have the ability to rise to the occasion! Besides, do you not think that the flight crew might have the experience to offer advice?
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Not in the least, cautious I would say.
Bigbrutha, if you are a Pilot you would know that they would send a replacement. If you've read my post, precious is one thing I'm not!
As for cabin crew, it's experience I'm talking about. As a very senior and mature crew member, I have a good deal of experience in managing in my role. Pilots don't have to manage crew and passengers, that's what I 'm referring to. On one of my recent flights to Athens which was full with staff on jumpseats, it was a bit of a nightmare with problems with crew and passengers. So take a Purser off and let's see what happens.
The other problem that we will have on shorthaul flights is that no main crew member will want to take charge of the economy cabin without being paid for what will be essentially, a Purser's job. Will that leave someone who's been in the airline for a couple of months to supervise the Eurotraveller cabin? Think about it, would you?
As for cabin crew, it's experience I'm talking about. As a very senior and mature crew member, I have a good deal of experience in managing in my role. Pilots don't have to manage crew and passengers, that's what I 'm referring to. On one of my recent flights to Athens which was full with staff on jumpseats, it was a bit of a nightmare with problems with crew and passengers. So take a Purser off and let's see what happens.
The other problem that we will have on shorthaul flights is that no main crew member will want to take charge of the economy cabin without being paid for what will be essentially, a Purser's job. Will that leave someone who's been in the airline for a couple of months to supervise the Eurotraveller cabin? Think about it, would you?
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Overstress, of course I agree with you that someone with a year's experience would be able to take charge. The problem we have is not whether they could, but whether they would.
I have flown with many crew of late who've all said that unless they are paid a Purser's salary, they would refuse to take charge.
As for stepping up that's what I do anyway, Overstress.
I am a SCCM.
Pilot's offering advice, are they going to help organise the crew in Eurotaveller when the CSD is dealing with all the IFE, meal and seating problems with 72 club passengers.
Are you a BA Pilot be any chance with experience on these flights? No offence intended.
I have flown with many crew of late who've all said that unless they are paid a Purser's salary, they would refuse to take charge.
As for stepping up that's what I do anyway, Overstress.
I am a SCCM.
Pilot's offering advice, are they going to help organise the crew in Eurotaveller when the CSD is dealing with all the IFE, meal and seating problems with 72 club passengers.
Are you a BA Pilot be any chance with experience on these flights? No offence intended.
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I have flown with many crew of late who've all said that unless they are paid a Purser's salary, they would refuse to take charge.
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Bigbrutha, I have read and do read my JPMs.
You manage the crew but not in the way I do.
What I'm talking about is managing and organising the service, the IFE problems which you can't always sort out, the meal problems, things that you are not always able to offer a solution to and of course on shorthaul there is a time factor. With all due respect, I totally respect what you do and have sought advice when needed from your goodselves.
You manage the crew but not in the way I do.
What I'm talking about is managing and organising the service, the IFE problems which you can't always sort out, the meal problems, things that you are not always able to offer a solution to and of course on shorthaul there is a time factor. With all due respect, I totally respect what you do and have sought advice when needed from your goodselves.