British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
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although this has made me laugh
Maybe BASSA should reflect on how their members "meetings" are run
BA instructs BASSA to remove a message from the BASSA CRC notice board as it was “distressing” our pilot colleagues. We of course decline this kind offer, managers remove it... we have replaced it! This will probably continue as perhaps mistakenly we believe that we do still live in a democracy and not Zimbabwe!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
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Just as SJ has pointed out, we don't have 737-700's at LGW. We have -400's, -500's (2) and a -300 as well as A319. That's the short haul aircraft anyways. Sometimes, it can be a bit rushed to get the service done, but that would normally be on JER or AMS if the aircraft is full. Otherwise, it isn't a major struggle, unless the crew are not doing their jobs properly.
Also, I'm getting mightily fed up with PiB's (and the like) attitude to crew earning less than LHR or indeed younger crew (as in new recruits) and the quality of their performance. This is very ignorant and shows your level of intelligence, really.
Gg
Also, I'm getting mightily fed up with PiB's (and the like) attitude to crew earning less than LHR or indeed younger crew (as in new recruits) and the quality of their performance. This is very ignorant and shows your level of intelligence, really.
Gg
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Oh how I laughed in CRC today, with the flyers lying around. Please, once again, let me share this with you. This shows where the BASSA focus lies; you can't deal with the truth, so attack an imagined enemy.
You really couldn't make this stuff up.
BASSA newsflash
On July 10th we published an article on the pilot harassment of cabin crew which involved putting undue pressure on crew to accept the company's proposals. Click here to view the original article
Yesterday, 16th July, BASSA had a call from IFCE saying the Flight Deck wanted us to remove the article from the BASSA notice board. BASSA replied that the article would be moved once we stopped hearing that crew were still being intimidated.
An hour later IFCE informed us that they would be removing the article from the BASSA notice board. We informed them that we would be putting it straight back but if they continued to remove it we would print extra copies to be left in public areas of CRC. We have a legal right to keep our membership informed at the workplace and if they deny us that right through the official channels (ie the notice board) then we reserve the right to leave messages elsewhere.
We also said if the Flight Deck management sent an ESS message out to all pilots reminding them not to engage cabin crew in unsolicited discussions over BA's proposals then we would immediately remove the article. IFCE management refused to make this very simple request. IFCE didn't seem too concerned that crew were still reporting to BASSA incidences where they felt bullied on a daily basis. Flight Deck demands are obviously more important.
Overnight the BASSA notice board was opened and the article was removed. BASSA has a legal right to that notice board and IFCE intrusion and removal of our message is quite frankly scandalous. It is also an indictment of how Willie Walsh runs this company and how much Bill Francis holds cabin crew in contempt.
Note to Flight Deck Crew
We very much accept the majority of our flight crew do not condone the behaviour of the minority of their colleagues and have been very supportive to us. Our messages are not in any way aimed at them, we are very grateful for their support and we apologise if it appears we are "placing all pilots under the one umbrella". Unfortunately we have to take these steps because IFCE management seem unwilling or incapable of looking after their cabin crew employees.
On July 10th we published an article on the pilot harassment of cabin crew which involved putting undue pressure on crew to accept the company's proposals. Click here to view the original article
Yesterday, 16th July, BASSA had a call from IFCE saying the Flight Deck wanted us to remove the article from the BASSA notice board. BASSA replied that the article would be moved once we stopped hearing that crew were still being intimidated.
An hour later IFCE informed us that they would be removing the article from the BASSA notice board. We informed them that we would be putting it straight back but if they continued to remove it we would print extra copies to be left in public areas of CRC. We have a legal right to keep our membership informed at the workplace and if they deny us that right through the official channels (ie the notice board) then we reserve the right to leave messages elsewhere.
We also said if the Flight Deck management sent an ESS message out to all pilots reminding them not to engage cabin crew in unsolicited discussions over BA's proposals then we would immediately remove the article. IFCE management refused to make this very simple request. IFCE didn't seem too concerned that crew were still reporting to BASSA incidences where they felt bullied on a daily basis. Flight Deck demands are obviously more important.
Overnight the BASSA notice board was opened and the article was removed. BASSA has a legal right to that notice board and IFCE intrusion and removal of our message is quite frankly scandalous. It is also an indictment of how Willie Walsh runs this company and how much Bill Francis holds cabin crew in contempt.
Note to Flight Deck Crew
We very much accept the majority of our flight crew do not condone the behaviour of the minority of their colleagues and have been very supportive to us. Our messages are not in any way aimed at them, we are very grateful for their support and we apologise if it appears we are "placing all pilots under the one umbrella". Unfortunately we have to take these steps because IFCE management seem unwilling or incapable of looking after their cabin crew employees.
BASSA has a legal right to that notice board and IFCE intrusion and removal of our message is quite frankly scandalous.
It is also an indictment of how Willie Walsh runs this company and how much Bill Francis holds cabin crew in contempt.
Simply put, the "scandalous" behaviour is that exhibited by BASSA, with it's "contempt" of any of its members who dare to hold contradictory views. BASSA are a disgrace!
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Poof In Boots wrote:
And there we have it. BASSA cronies would take down the whole company in order to defend the indefensible. So what would you say to the thousands of families who'd lose their jobs, their homes and future given your selfish attitude?
You don't even know the types of 737 BA op out of LGW - B737-700!!! -
PiB - you've lost touch with economic reality, you know BASSA are going to lose, the travelling public will not support you and to cap it all - you've lost your credibilty on this forum with your endless ill-informed rants.
I would rather see the airline go bust than support the current LT in BA.
You don't even know the types of 737 BA op out of LGW - B737-700!!! -
PiB - you've lost touch with economic reality, you know BASSA are going to lose, the travelling public will not support you and to cap it all - you've lost your credibilty on this forum with your endless ill-informed rants.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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PiB
If you're a BASSA rep then please heed. Find out what your members would actually prefer to give up (pay or productivity), negotiate a sensible deal with BA and get with the real world.
BASSA (you?) set the precedent on the rates of pay, crewing levels and service standards that you were happy to accept (in order to keep feathering your own nest) when you allowed SFG to happen. So stop bleating about it.
If you aren't going to do this then can you and your colleagues please resign en-mass and allow some adults to take your place. If I end up with a new contract being imposed on me then I will livid. You had other options. Many other options.
If you're a BASSA rep then please heed. Find out what your members would actually prefer to give up (pay or productivity), negotiate a sensible deal with BA and get with the real world.
BASSA (you?) set the precedent on the rates of pay, crewing levels and service standards that you were happy to accept (in order to keep feathering your own nest) when you allowed SFG to happen. So stop bleating about it.
If you aren't going to do this then can you and your colleagues please resign en-mass and allow some adults to take your place. If I end up with a new contract being imposed on me then I will livid. You had other options. Many other options.
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Firstly thanks to everyone for the support, I do know there a lot of crew out there who feel the same way, but its nice to hear it 
NJR- I found your post quite disturbing, if Im to be honest. I, like most of my colleagues, are part of the union to be represented, to have someone voice our opinions to the company as there really is no other way in a company as large as BA. Im not against BASSA, but Im disappointed that in all the time these negotiations have been going on they havent REALLY asked the opinions off ALL their members. As I said before, I have not been asked what I am willing to give up, compromise on and fight to keep!! Surely that kind of information is vital for BASSA to represent us properly, or are you just arguing over the points that you "think" we might object to, or the ones that are important to you as an individual??
Personally I feel that there is a compromise to be made, and that there is an adult and mature way for the current situation to be handled. I would like to see the company back on top form, Im very proud of the uniform I wear and the job I do and would like to continue to for many years to come.
NJR- I found your post quite disturbing, if Im to be honest. I, like most of my colleagues, are part of the union to be represented, to have someone voice our opinions to the company as there really is no other way in a company as large as BA. Im not against BASSA, but Im disappointed that in all the time these negotiations have been going on they havent REALLY asked the opinions off ALL their members. As I said before, I have not been asked what I am willing to give up, compromise on and fight to keep!! Surely that kind of information is vital for BASSA to represent us properly, or are you just arguing over the points that you "think" we might object to, or the ones that are important to you as an individual??
Personally I feel that there is a compromise to be made, and that there is an adult and mature way for the current situation to be handled. I would like to see the company back on top form, Im very proud of the uniform I wear and the job I do and would like to continue to for many years to come.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Kittenheals, I hope, (indeed I would pray if I thought it would do any good!) that your voice represents the "silent majority" of cabin crew at LHR. You have no-one but BASSA to represent you, and thus find yourself in a corner due to their undemocratic behaviour.
When the opportunity next comes to elect your reps, remember the contempt of the current incumbents for the opinion of the masses. Not once have they tried to sound out the view of the membership in a SECRET ballot, just relied on a highly intimidating show of hands, from a small minority of members, on a set of prepared (and mostly irrelevant) set of proposals.
I repeat. They have treated their members with CONTEMPT. They deserve the boot.
When the opportunity next comes to elect your reps, remember the contempt of the current incumbents for the opinion of the masses. Not once have they tried to sound out the view of the membership in a SECRET ballot, just relied on a highly intimidating show of hands, from a small minority of members, on a set of prepared (and mostly irrelevant) set of proposals.
I repeat. They have treated their members with CONTEMPT. They deserve the boot.
Join Date: Dec 1998
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Some facts wouldn't go amiss in this entire debate from both BASSA and BA. The audit of the figures should start to go some way to amending this I hope. That said on the BA forum, some crew think that the BASSA proposal is better because a 2.61% paycut only equates to around £30 a month. Ah, I see where the cost savings are coming from. Equally one guy suggesting that BA shouldn't pay for upgraded rooms or free internet for pilots as we should be showing our willingness to save money already! Shame I can't point out to him that those things are cost neutral to the airline and provided by the hotel at no extra cost. Facts, people, please and then we can advance this debate properly. Shouting and just waving headline figures with no substance to back them up isn't going to get us (here or in the corporate sense) anywhere productive at all. Spouting long held (if mistaken) beliefs and myths isn't doing any of us any favours at all.
MrB
MrB
Join Date: Jan 2008
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i did hint at it in earlier post, but if we can work at lgw as we do , surely if consistency is what it's s'posed to be about, that should be the model across the fleet, in total. we're all now nsp (cough!), so what is the problem. bassa accepted, didn't stop the single fleet, in fact reps advocated it, so why arent we all working to the same moa. excuse me if i'm being really stupid, but WE CAN DO IT, why can't you? (and yes that's to pib/njr etc- we've changed, so should you, coz if you dont, dont expect any support from the other base!
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Other airlines can do it too.
I flew on German airline today from FRA-NCE, 737 a/c business class and economy cabins all full, only 3 cabin crew on the 70 minute sector. I noticed all 3 c/crew working as an efficient team in both cabins. It can be done with some good team work. Their catering is similar to BA's.
I flew on German airline today from FRA-NCE, 737 a/c business class and economy cabins all full, only 3 cabin crew on the 70 minute sector. I noticed all 3 c/crew working as an efficient team in both cabins. It can be done with some good team work. Their catering is similar to BA's.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 19th Jul 2009 at 19:18. Reason: mistake
Join Date: Dec 1999
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JetBlue yesterday-full A320, and they did a great job with min crew. Better than the AA crew I recently suffered-also with min crew...
Goes to show that numbers are unrelated to service...
Goes to show that numbers are unrelated to service...
Join Date: Feb 2007
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loving this latest Gem - so only saves the company when additional costs are already experienced then....
FROM BASSA: In the past BA has provided to us (as a reason to change the long range agreement) the following argument - each time an aircraft diverts on a long range to a UK airport (where crew then require a double nights rest) the total cost, when factoring in crew displacement, pax
displacement and aircraft displacement is approximately 1 million pounds
for each diverted aircraft. This happened 30 times during the last bad
winter, so over an 18-month period this can easily total 60 times, at a
cost of 1 million pounds per time, equals 60 million pounds.
displacement and aircraft displacement is approximately 1 million pounds
for each diverted aircraft. This happened 30 times during the last bad
winter, so over an 18-month period this can easily total 60 times, at a
cost of 1 million pounds per time, equals 60 million pounds.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I think most airlines are flying with as little crew as possible. I have flown on both KL and LH, which can be compared to BA, and they have had four crew on B738 and A321.
The service can be done with less crew. It's all about the attitude amongst the crew.
Having read a couple of the comments on the CF some of them make me a bit worried:
"It's great that BASSA really have YOUR interests and your future at heart..."
"Please everyone go down to the BASSA office & pick up a copy of this update & give them out at your briefings, everyone needs to know"
The service can be done with less crew. It's all about the attitude amongst the crew.
Having read a couple of the comments on the CF some of them make me a bit worried:
"It's great that BASSA really have YOUR interests and your future at heart..."
"Please everyone go down to the BASSA office & pick up a copy of this update & give them out at your briefings, everyone needs to know"
Join Date: Apr 1999
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A million pounds per aircraft? They're 'aving a laugh! Even if that were the case, the disruption costs attributable to the crew are no more than allowances, hotac and positioning costs for both the diverted crew and their replacements (if any). The rest of the cost is on somebody elses budget yet BASSA are trying to claim those costs as a saving! Ludicrous! With that kind of monkey maths no wonder BA laughed at their savings!!!
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JetBlue yesterday-full A320, and they did a great job with min crew. Better than the AA crew I recently suffered-also with min crew...
Goes to show that numbers are unrelated to service..
Goes to show that numbers are unrelated to service..