British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear
Now really, why was it ok for us all to work as "cheap CC" at LGW but it's SO unacceptable at LHR? Please, answer the question, I'd love to hear the answer. Why was LGW different? Why were all these principles thrown out of the window for us? A case of "Not in my backyard"?
But hey, keep posting on the BASSA forum and let yourselves believe that we'll all follow you out on strike.
*HINT* Bullying and harassment is so rife there that the only ones posting are those who comply with the militant viewpoint. Any chance you're kidding yourselves?
At the end of the day, if you strike, I'll have a job and you'll be applying elsewhere. Good luck with that. You'll need it, because the rest of the country (not BASSA, of course) is in a recession. My friends and family are losing jobs and you guys have your fingers in your ears going "La la la, WW is a winker!". Oh and "Why can't we be the same as pilots?"........."who we hate and won't talk to or have dinner with".
After all it suits them to see cheap CC. Puts the share price up for their future bonus.
But hey, keep posting on the BASSA forum and let yourselves believe that we'll all follow you out on strike.
*HINT* Bullying and harassment is so rife there that the only ones posting are those who comply with the militant viewpoint. Any chance you're kidding yourselves?
At the end of the day, if you strike, I'll have a job and you'll be applying elsewhere. Good luck with that. You'll need it, because the rest of the country (not BASSA, of course) is in a recession. My friends and family are losing jobs and you guys have your fingers in your ears going "La la la, WW is a winker!". Oh and "Why can't we be the same as pilots?"........."who we hate and won't talk to or have dinner with".
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It takes 3 years to train a GP, but only 15 months to train a pilot
So what justifies you in demanding your pay?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've already asked the questions, so if you have a look at the last couple of pages you can find them there, as I can't be bothered to post them again.
Also, on the New-new contract, you mention no promotion. No promotion as we know it, but when supervisors or whatever they're to be called are needed, they can go for such a position. This will increase their basic salary and possibly flight pay.
What is also interesting, is that Bassa has agreed on paper to this, so why are you saying it's such a rough deal? Surely you just follow what your union tells you?
Gg
Also, on the New-new contract, you mention no promotion. No promotion as we know it, but when supervisors or whatever they're to be called are needed, they can go for such a position. This will increase their basic salary and possibly flight pay.
What is also interesting, is that Bassa has agreed on paper to this, so why are you saying it's such a rough deal? Surely you just follow what your union tells you?
Gg
It takes 3 years to train a GP, but only 15 months to train a pilot with no previous experience of flying. In comparisom to GP's who earn between £110,000 to £150,000, pilots are grossly overpaid.
Result! Where do I sign?
By the way, the Emirates crews I have had the pleasure of working with all year are from all nations, incredibly professional and (dare I say it) appear friendly and happy with their lot.
Etihad on the other hand are another story.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Any BASSA rep would avoid this forum like the plague
If you're not a rep, then you'd do well to let them know about the debate that's going on here. They could learn a lot.
P.S One latest gem from the BASSA forum is a cry to stop paying into the pension scheme to screw BA over. Sorry, you think the result of this would be what? It certainly won't harm BA. It's simply YOUR pension that would be screwed. So juvenile and, as I've said again and again, achieving nothing. Yet the cries of "good post" and "people need to read this" keep flooding in. Such self-congratulation.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA would leap for joy if people stopped paying into the pension scheme - it would mean they could stop the employers element also. Once you have been stupid enough to leave the scheme - remember the only way to stop paying in is to tell BA, as you make your payments through payroll deductions - what on earth makes you think you could rejoin anything but BARP? That would save the company a lot of money.
You see the CC are not as stupid as some of the PIBs comments here would indicate. Some of them are actively thinking of ways to screw themselves over to help the company out. BA have not (yet) asked for NAPS to be closed to current members, yet here are some of the CC helping out by suggesting that for their colleagues. Dedication and loyalty like that is going beyond what is called for at the moment.
You see the CC are not as stupid as some of the PIBs comments here would indicate. Some of them are actively thinking of ways to screw themselves over to help the company out. BA have not (yet) asked for NAPS to be closed to current members, yet here are some of the CC helping out by suggesting that for their colleagues. Dedication and loyalty like that is going beyond what is called for at the moment.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there such a thing as a timetable of coming events in this dispute? It seems to be rolling along for ever, slopping bile and vitriol over the sides of the wagon at every bump. I just wondered if there is a specific date where a decision or ballot will take place?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tightslot,
The official deadline for negotiations between the unions and BA was 30th June. Following that, BA have called in ACAS to mediate with the Unite unions (including BASSA). It is not binding arbitration though. At some point, a halt will be called and unless an agreement is reached between both sides, expect BA to impose new Terms and Conditions on the cabin crew (and go to court using "Some Other Substantial Reason" to make it stick). At the same time, expect lots of bluster from BASSA and possibly a strike ballot. Whether or not they will get the support of their members or whether BA will put a stop to any action using SOSR is anyone's guess.
A cynic would suggest that BA may be dragging the ACAS talks along to make sure any strike occurs after the summer period.
If I were you I'd be tempted to lock this thread until a decision is made one way or another, then unlock it and allow it to continue after that. There are one or two contributors who don't seem to get the message that pilots and cabin crew have totally unrelated jobs and should have totally unrelated treatment, which results in those pilots who take an interest (we'd like to keep our jobs at the end of this as well) being drawn in to defend our profession against what are clearly uninformed opinions. As a result the thread is going round in circles.
Bon chance.
PS: BA seem confident that all this will be sorted out by the beginning of October. The deal with the pilots relies upon that. Imposition of new contracts requires 90 days notice using SOSR (a previous post/link of mine refers) and ideally needs to be in place by the beginning of the winter season. Take a look at your calendar and see when a deal needs to be done by.
The official deadline for negotiations between the unions and BA was 30th June. Following that, BA have called in ACAS to mediate with the Unite unions (including BASSA). It is not binding arbitration though. At some point, a halt will be called and unless an agreement is reached between both sides, expect BA to impose new Terms and Conditions on the cabin crew (and go to court using "Some Other Substantial Reason" to make it stick). At the same time, expect lots of bluster from BASSA and possibly a strike ballot. Whether or not they will get the support of their members or whether BA will put a stop to any action using SOSR is anyone's guess.
A cynic would suggest that BA may be dragging the ACAS talks along to make sure any strike occurs after the summer period.
If I were you I'd be tempted to lock this thread until a decision is made one way or another, then unlock it and allow it to continue after that. There are one or two contributors who don't seem to get the message that pilots and cabin crew have totally unrelated jobs and should have totally unrelated treatment, which results in those pilots who take an interest (we'd like to keep our jobs at the end of this as well) being drawn in to defend our profession against what are clearly uninformed opinions. As a result the thread is going round in circles.
Bon chance.
PS: BA seem confident that all this will be sorted out by the beginning of October. The deal with the pilots relies upon that. Imposition of new contracts requires 90 days notice using SOSR (a previous post/link of mine refers) and ideally needs to be in place by the beginning of the winter season. Take a look at your calendar and see when a deal needs to be done by.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A friend of mine has just flown on EMIRATES (now owned by ETIHAD by the way).
They might have a great product, but the crew have been dumbed down for cheaper Asians rather than the usual ex-pat crew you used to see.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DFW
Age: 57
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been an advocate for Bidline for cabin crew for years for the reasons that have already been stated. In fact, it is used by a number of US carriers for their cabin crew. Perhaps if BASSA had been a little more flexible in the past, this could have been an option.
The bidding system is a real bone of contention over here as it's only of benefit if you're senior. At some of the carriers, NWA, UAL etc., reserve is running into 15 years at bases. That means you can only bid for your days off and pick up the slack that seniors drop, call sick on etc., We're paid a base guarantee of 75 hours but rarely will you go over that.
At my carrier seniority has stagnated since 2001 and I'm still on reserve and despite being fluent in English, Spanish and Italian, have only flown two international trips in the last year!
How does bidline work? Are the lines posted and you bid in preference or is it more similar to DL whereby you do preferential bidding?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poof In Boots wrote;
Perhaps.
The irony being is that BASSA is trying to protect the £60,000 CSD's who sit lording it over the other CC. Can BASSA really justify a £60K CSD? or perhaps more importantly, can BA justify £60k for a CSD these days?
BASSA, you are finished!!
You really have lost the plot. BASSA are happy to send everyone else to the wall to protect the few.
The day of the £60,000 Captain is not far away.
The irony being is that BASSA is trying to protect the £60,000 CSD's who sit lording it over the other CC. Can BASSA really justify a £60K CSD? or perhaps more importantly, can BA justify £60k for a CSD these days?
BASSA, you are finished!!
You really have lost the plot. BASSA are happy to send everyone else to the wall to protect the few.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re the question about dates of any ballot.
My guess is the CC unions are starting to understand how life will be after the changes, they may dragg out talks with ACARS to extend the old terms and conditions, ths gap is too big, it will not be sorted with ACARS, it will be sorted fast track by the company, any time delay now is in the company favour, they will be making detailed plans.
My thoughts with the CC, the unions and management have made this mess by a lack of action over many many years, it will never be the same.
My guess is the CC unions are starting to understand how life will be after the changes, they may dragg out talks with ACARS to extend the old terms and conditions, ths gap is too big, it will not be sorted with ACARS, it will be sorted fast track by the company, any time delay now is in the company favour, they will be making detailed plans.
My thoughts with the CC, the unions and management have made this mess by a lack of action over many many years, it will never be the same.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: England
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree 100% with Matt101!!! Pib, your comments are simply racist and obviously biased... Well, let me tell you I have flown 4 sectors on EK between LHR and DXB (and rtn) and a friend of mine used to fly for them. It is a well known fact in EK that Filipino cabin crew are some of the hard workers and most dedicated crew so stop your malicious and racist remarks about them being there to find an European husband - please be more respectful of others.
Just like Matt101 sais, we DO witness (often!) in BA those same safety issues you wrote about not to mention poor service by some crew.
I have lost count of the times the trolley with newspapers is positioned at 2R during boarding, starting push-back with some pax still standing up and overhead lockers open and the list goes on.......
Just like Matt101 sais, we DO witness (often!) in BA those same safety issues you wrote about not to mention poor service by some crew.
I have lost count of the times the trolley with newspapers is positioned at 2R during boarding, starting push-back with some pax still standing up and overhead lockers open and the list goes on.......
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forgive the intrusion, but I am a pilot. Human Factor, feel I have to disagree with you. All aircrew's jobs are related. We have many common concerns and interests. It is the nature of our work. If you can not see that I feel truly sorry for you. I am proud to work for an airline who's aircrew all wear the same wings irrespective of which side of the flight deck door we work. The day all aircrew present a united front to management is the one that all management fear. I hope it may happen one day. Balpa let in Flight Engineers just before they became history.(Flight Engineers not Balpa
) What a pity they can not set up a cabin crew branch.
) What a pity they can not set up a cabin crew branch.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dd,
I don't disagree. There are a number of issues where pilots and cabin crew have similar interests and I do not dispute this. If that was how I came across, that wasn't my intention.
What I object to strongly is the assertion by certain posters on this forum that in terms of actual role, pilots and cabin crew are directly equivalent. As you know, this is far from the case as the required training and legal responsibilities bear out.
Incidentally:
It would appear the ACAS talks have just broken down. Coincidence?
I don't disagree. There are a number of issues where pilots and cabin crew have similar interests and I do not dispute this. If that was how I came across, that wasn't my intention.
What I object to strongly is the assertion by certain posters on this forum that in terms of actual role, pilots and cabin crew are directly equivalent. As you know, this is far from the case as the required training and legal responsibilities bear out.
Incidentally:
PS: BA seem confident that all this will be sorted out by the beginning of October. The deal with the pilots relies upon that. Imposition of new contracts requires 90 days notice using SOSR (a previous post/link of mine refers) and ideally needs to be in place by the beginning of the winter season. Take a look at your calendar and see when a deal needs to be done by.
Interesting nuigini, very interesting. It would appear that the bullet or the blade (take your pick) has already entered BASSA's 'soft tissue' and will shortly tear into some 'vital organs'. Prognosis? Not good ...........
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amazing isn't it? PIB, Skywatch and the rest of the BASSA sheep happily mouth off about WW, BF, pilots, other airline crews and anyone else in the most appalling manner, but if anyone presents an argument that opposes the BASSA childlike mentality, then we are vile.
To all people everywhere, I apologise on behalf of PIB and their racist remarks. Please rest assured that they do not represent the majority of our community, who are by and large nice, respectable people. PIB you are a disgrace to BA cabin crew everywhere.
The failure to agree now lends us to yet another stage of worrying. Did BASSA let PWC audit the proposals? Why not?Has BF denied the rumours of contract letters being sent out? Why not?
Can we actually sue UNITE if/when they lead us down this road to ruin? Once again the suggestion of BALPA taking over the CC union has been made. I am all for it!
To all people everywhere, I apologise on behalf of PIB and their racist remarks. Please rest assured that they do not represent the majority of our community, who are by and large nice, respectable people. PIB you are a disgrace to BA cabin crew everywhere.
The failure to agree now lends us to yet another stage of worrying. Did BASSA let PWC audit the proposals? Why not?
Has BF denied the rumours of contract letters being sent out? Why not?Can we actually sue UNITE if/when they lead us down this road to ruin? Once again the suggestion of BALPA taking over the CC union has been made. I am all for it!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by skywatch77
cash and burn you are utterly vile.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Cooling off period' as BA talks with union fail - Times Online
Looks like Unite is just as bad as Bassa!
It is understood a similar “failure to agree” will be registered tomorrow on behalf of other BA workers, including baggage handlers and check-in staff.