British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Hiflyer14, I am very sad to hear of the bullying that goes on. The no.1 reason that CC are on board is to ensure the safety and well being of the passengers. The law requires a mimimum number of CC to be on board in case of an emercency and if the crew cannot be working as a team then they are putting our (pax) lives at risk sould anything happen.
The union sould be putting a stop to this bullying not being the cause!!!!!
The union sould be putting a stop to this bullying not being the cause!!!!!
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Precise wording on BASSA ballot papers
I am curious to know whether any BASSA member who voted can recall the exact text on the ballot papers? Perhaps someone had the foresight to copy one?
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As SLF I would like to thank those of you who voted NO, and I am appalled that you face any reaction from any member of crew of the YES persuasion. Surely the way you vote is your affair and no-one elses?
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A little off track maybe but I see that the Unite "big guns" are in this meeting with WW, while "our Len" was last seen on BBC News in the snow demonstrating outside Parliament on the Cadburys issue!! Maybe they have actually realised that he really should not be allowed out on his own! However it does not bode well for Cadburys methinks.
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If dropping one crew member saves so much hotel costs, how about CC share rooms, that should save even more cash, but I guess the unions would want any cash saved poured into CC pay packets !
I wonder how many HMRC staff are enjoying this thread, they will be making plans I'm sure, when the dust settles, they will be at the door of all flying staff !
2010 will be a year to remember, CC T+Cs very reduced, pension to be closed or as good, HMRC at the door.
I wonder how many HMRC staff are enjoying this thread, they will be making plans I'm sure, when the dust settles, they will be at the door of all flying staff !
2010 will be a year to remember, CC T+Cs very reduced, pension to be closed or as good, HMRC at the door.
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As a long time member of this community (PPRUNE) can I just remind everyone that the idea behind this forum is that posters have some sort of ‘working knowledge’ of aviation. Having followed this thread closely for many weeks now (due to very close personal involvement) I have noticed that the level of posts by some is reaching dire levels of dribble. 
I specifically refer to those posts written obviously by those who know NOTHING about aviation dealing with (cc) salaries, hours worked (“uhm….there is a difference between flying hours and duty hours?” DUH!!) etc. An EZY CC member based at LGW will clear an awful lot more money than a BA CC member based on LGW – fact.
So in the interest of value – for those of you who are not in a position of making a valid contribution please feel free to sit back and monitor (or join one of the many non ‘professional’ sites) however please refrain polluting an otherwise great website.
Failure to do so will result in you having to explain EPR’s, re-clear and ETOPS!
I specifically refer to those posts written obviously by those who know NOTHING about aviation dealing with (cc) salaries, hours worked (“uhm….there is a difference between flying hours and duty hours?” DUH!!) etc. An EZY CC member based at LGW will clear an awful lot more money than a BA CC member based on LGW – fact.
So in the interest of value – for those of you who are not in a position of making a valid contribution please feel free to sit back and monitor (or join one of the many non ‘professional’ sites) however please refrain polluting an otherwise great website.
Failure to do so will result in you having to explain EPR’s, re-clear and ETOPS!
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On the other hand, I expect cc who show up for work despite the strike will be appreciated by the passengers quite a bit.
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The issue here is that BASSA forced BA into imposition by first offering a set of savings that were substantially below those required, then refusing to accept what was on the table for discussion.
Having forced BA into imposition, they have then started legal action to declare this illegal.
But the "up the worker" union nutjobs can't even wait SIX WEEKS for their day in court and have coerced everyone into a suicidal strike.
BA have no choice in this, it is they that run the company, and they must surgically remove BASSA before this diseased parasite kills BA.
Having forced BA into imposition, they have then started legal action to declare this illegal.
But the "up the worker" union nutjobs can't even wait SIX WEEKS for their day in court and have coerced everyone into a suicidal strike.
BA have no choice in this, it is they that run the company, and they must surgically remove BASSA before this diseased parasite kills BA.
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Thank you
I have no affiliation with BA, I’m just slf due to fly to Cyprus on 22nd to spend Xmas with my family. Or at least, I really hope I’m going to spend Xmas with my family.
I don’t know enough – of either side of this argument – to properly comment on the why’s and wherefore’s, but I just felt the need to say to all BA CC that will be working during the strike if it goes ahead, a sincere thank you. You are the CC that I always hope to get on my flights and that can often make the difference between a really unpleasant / boring experience and a fairly lovely travelling experience.
I hope to goodness that I get to spend Xmas with my folks. Its not been a great year, I’ve been without a job for most of it, my mum’s just come out of hospital and I’m desperate to see her. The idea that I might not get back is too distressing to be honest, so I’ve got my head in the sand! But whatever the case, I do want to say thank you – to the likes of Tiramisu, Hiflyer & co – for trying to keep the service running for all of us passengers even when they do have their own issues & grievances with their job.
I just spotted Lauderdale’s post – I know I’m not qualified to post here, but I did genuinely want to say a thank you as I feel its necessary.
I don’t know enough – of either side of this argument – to properly comment on the why’s and wherefore’s, but I just felt the need to say to all BA CC that will be working during the strike if it goes ahead, a sincere thank you. You are the CC that I always hope to get on my flights and that can often make the difference between a really unpleasant / boring experience and a fairly lovely travelling experience.
I hope to goodness that I get to spend Xmas with my folks. Its not been a great year, I’ve been without a job for most of it, my mum’s just come out of hospital and I’m desperate to see her. The idea that I might not get back is too distressing to be honest, so I’ve got my head in the sand! But whatever the case, I do want to say thank you – to the likes of Tiramisu, Hiflyer & co – for trying to keep the service running for all of us passengers even when they do have their own issues & grievances with their job.
I just spotted Lauderdale’s post – I know I’m not qualified to post here, but I did genuinely want to say a thank you as I feel its necessary.
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Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
Ladyxxxx, for what it's worth, here I believe are some relevant facts taken from the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52) published on the government's website opsi.gov.
If (and it is a big if without evidence) the ballot papers did not conform to the requirements of section 229 (below), it would seem that the whole ballot may be open to legal challenge. E.g. Did the following statement appear, as apparently required by the legislation, on the Voting papers: “If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment.”.?
If (and it is a big if without evidence) the ballot papers did not conform to the requirements of section 229 (below), it would seem that the whole ballot may be open to legal challenge. E.g. Did the following statement appear, as apparently required by the legislation, on the Voting papers: “If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment.”.?
227 Entitlement to vote in ballot
(1) Entitlement to vote in the ballot must be accorded equally to all the members of the trade union who it is reasonable at the time of the ballot for the union to believe will be induced to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in the industrial action in question, and to no others.
(2) The requirement in subsection (1) shall be taken not to have been satisfied if any person who was a member of the trade union at the time when the ballot was held and was denied entitlement to vote in the ballot is induced by the union to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in the industrial action.
228 Separate workplace ballots
(1) Subject to the following provisions, where the members who it is reasonable at the time of the ballot for the union to believe will be induced to take part, or continue to take part, in the industrial action in question have different places of work, separate ballots shall be held for each place of work.
In such a case entitlement to vote in the ballot for each place of work shall be accorded only to such of those members as the union reasonably believes to have that as their place of work.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that all the members who are accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot have the same place of work.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that there is in relation to each of the members of the union who is accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot some factor (whether or not the same factor) which—
(a) relates to the terms or conditions of his employment or to the occupational description which is applicable to him in his employment,
(b) is a factor which he has in common with one or more of the other members of the union who are accorded that entitlement, and
(c) in a case where there are individuals employed by the same employer as he is who are members of the union but are not accorded that entitlement, is not a factor—
(i) which he has in common with any of those individuals, or
(ii) which individuals employed by that employer have in common as a consequence of having the same place of work;
nor does that subsection apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that the above conditions would be satisfied if any overseas members accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot were disregarded.
229 Voting paper
(1) The method of voting in a ballot must be by the marking of a voting paper by the person voting.
(2) The voting paper must contain at least one of the following questions—
(a) a question (however framed) which requires the person answering it to say, by answering “Yes” or “No”, whether he is prepared to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in a strike;
(b) a question (however framed) which requires the person answering it to say, by answering “Yes” or “No”, whether he is prepared to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in industrial action short of a strike.
(3) The voting paper must specify who, in the event of a vote in favour of industrial action, is authorised for the purposes of section 233 to call upon members to take part or continue to take part in the industrial action.
The person or description of persons so specified need not be authorised under the rules of the union but must be within section 20(3) (persons for whose acts the union is taken to be responsible).
(4) The following statement must (without being qualified or commented upon by anything else on the voting paper) appear on every voting paper—
“If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment.”.
230 Conduct of ballot
(1) Every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must—
(a) be allowed to vote without interference from, or constraint imposed by, the union or any of its members, officials or employees, and
(b) so far as is reasonably practicable, be enabled to do so without incurring any direct cost to himself.
(2) So far as is reasonably practicable, every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must—
(a) be supplied with a voting paper, or
(b) have one made available to him immediately before, immediately after, or during his working hours, at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him.
(3) So far as reasonably practicable, every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must be given either—
(a) a convenient opportunity to vote by post, or
(b) an opportunity to vote immediately before, immediately after, or during, his working hours at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him,
or, as alternatives, both of those opportunities.
No opportunity to vote shall be given except as mentioned above.
(4) A ballot shall be conducted so as to secure that—
(a) so far as is reasonably practicable, those voting do so in secret, and
(b) the votes given in the ballot are fairly and accurately counted.
For the purposes of paragraph (b) an inaccuracy in counting shall be disregarded if it is accidental and on a scale which could not affect the result of the ballot.
231 Information as to result of ballot
As soon as is reasonably practicable after the holding of the ballot, the trade union shall take such steps as are reasonably necessary to ensure that all persons entitled to vote in the ballot are informed of the number of—
(a) votes cast in the ballot,
(b) individuals answering “Yes” to the question, or as the case may be, to each question,
(c) individuals answering “No” to the question, or, as the case may be, to each question, and
(d) spoiled voting papers.
(1) Entitlement to vote in the ballot must be accorded equally to all the members of the trade union who it is reasonable at the time of the ballot for the union to believe will be induced to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in the industrial action in question, and to no others.
(2) The requirement in subsection (1) shall be taken not to have been satisfied if any person who was a member of the trade union at the time when the ballot was held and was denied entitlement to vote in the ballot is induced by the union to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in the industrial action.
228 Separate workplace ballots
(1) Subject to the following provisions, where the members who it is reasonable at the time of the ballot for the union to believe will be induced to take part, or continue to take part, in the industrial action in question have different places of work, separate ballots shall be held for each place of work.
In such a case entitlement to vote in the ballot for each place of work shall be accorded only to such of those members as the union reasonably believes to have that as their place of work.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that all the members who are accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot have the same place of work.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that there is in relation to each of the members of the union who is accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot some factor (whether or not the same factor) which—
(a) relates to the terms or conditions of his employment or to the occupational description which is applicable to him in his employment,
(b) is a factor which he has in common with one or more of the other members of the union who are accorded that entitlement, and
(c) in a case where there are individuals employed by the same employer as he is who are members of the union but are not accorded that entitlement, is not a factor—
(i) which he has in common with any of those individuals, or
(ii) which individuals employed by that employer have in common as a consequence of having the same place of work;
nor does that subsection apply if at the time of the ballot it is reasonable for the union to believe, and it does believe, that the above conditions would be satisfied if any overseas members accorded entitlement to vote in the ballot were disregarded.
229 Voting paper
(1) The method of voting in a ballot must be by the marking of a voting paper by the person voting.
(2) The voting paper must contain at least one of the following questions—
(a) a question (however framed) which requires the person answering it to say, by answering “Yes” or “No”, whether he is prepared to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in a strike;
(b) a question (however framed) which requires the person answering it to say, by answering “Yes” or “No”, whether he is prepared to take part or, as the case may be, to continue to take part in industrial action short of a strike.
(3) The voting paper must specify who, in the event of a vote in favour of industrial action, is authorised for the purposes of section 233 to call upon members to take part or continue to take part in the industrial action.
The person or description of persons so specified need not be authorised under the rules of the union but must be within section 20(3) (persons for whose acts the union is taken to be responsible).
(4) The following statement must (without being qualified or commented upon by anything else on the voting paper) appear on every voting paper—
“If you take part in a strike or other industrial action, you may be in breach of your contract of employment.”.
230 Conduct of ballot
(1) Every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must—
(a) be allowed to vote without interference from, or constraint imposed by, the union or any of its members, officials or employees, and
(b) so far as is reasonably practicable, be enabled to do so without incurring any direct cost to himself.
(2) So far as is reasonably practicable, every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must—
(a) be supplied with a voting paper, or
(b) have one made available to him immediately before, immediately after, or during his working hours, at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him.
(3) So far as reasonably practicable, every person who is entitled to vote in the ballot must be given either—
(a) a convenient opportunity to vote by post, or
(b) an opportunity to vote immediately before, immediately after, or during, his working hours at his place of work or at a place which is more convenient for him,
or, as alternatives, both of those opportunities.
No opportunity to vote shall be given except as mentioned above.
(4) A ballot shall be conducted so as to secure that—
(a) so far as is reasonably practicable, those voting do so in secret, and
(b) the votes given in the ballot are fairly and accurately counted.
For the purposes of paragraph (b) an inaccuracy in counting shall be disregarded if it is accidental and on a scale which could not affect the result of the ballot.
231 Information as to result of ballot
As soon as is reasonably practicable after the holding of the ballot, the trade union shall take such steps as are reasonably necessary to ensure that all persons entitled to vote in the ballot are informed of the number of—
(a) votes cast in the ballot,
(b) individuals answering “Yes” to the question, or as the case may be, to each question,
(c) individuals answering “No” to the question, or, as the case may be, to each question, and
(d) spoiled voting papers.
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£56,325 PA, divide that by a max of 900 hours = £62.58 PH.
Not to forget the above is very lite on tax, HMRC are working on that though.
The company has to pour loads of cash into pensions to match the above, time for change.
Not to forget the above is very lite on tax, HMRC are working on that though.
The company has to pour loads of cash into pensions to match the above, time for change.
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92%!
Oh it is so nice to be back.
How wrong you all were. Ha ha!!
Scroll back and find my prediction for the ballot outcome that I made nearly two weeks ago. How out of touch most of the posters here who claim they are BA cabin crew!
Poor Gg. All these months pushing her agenda and only a fraction of her colleagues voting NO.Hardly the basis to start a new union.
As I also predicted, you will not see any other manager or Director on the telly giving interviews. Only Walsh.
So how will this matter be resolved? Walsh only has to drop the imposition until after the result of the High Court hearing in February, and everyone's Christmas is safe. If he continues to play the little hard man, well it is not going to work at BA like it did at Aer Lingus. Surely the penny has dropped by now?
It will be interesting to see how Walsh's "Fight for Survival" gets on.
How wrong you all were. Ha ha!!
Scroll back and find my prediction for the ballot outcome that I made nearly two weeks ago. How out of touch most of the posters here who claim they are BA cabin crew!
Poor Gg. All these months pushing her agenda and only a fraction of her colleagues voting NO.Hardly the basis to start a new union.
As I also predicted, you will not see any other manager or Director on the telly giving interviews. Only Walsh.
So how will this matter be resolved? Walsh only has to drop the imposition until after the result of the High Court hearing in February, and everyone's Christmas is safe. If he continues to play the little hard man, well it is not going to work at BA like it did at Aer Lingus. Surely the penny has dropped by now?
It will be interesting to see how Walsh's "Fight for Survival" gets on.
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Stoic, have a look at Sky News. BA say the union was also in breach because they did'nt say the strike was at Christmas or for 12 days apart from ballotting staff that have left or are leaving.
But I did hear a member of the CC say that he voted yes but didnt know it was for Christmas or for 12 days just a YES or NO vote - but I'm sure CC members can clarify further.
Lets hope they BA win the case - it won't have won the war but at least its a start.
But I did hear a member of the CC say that he voted yes but didnt know it was for Christmas or for 12 days just a YES or NO vote - but I'm sure CC members can clarify further.
Lets hope they BA win the case - it won't have won the war but at least its a start.
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Withdrawal of one's labour
Whiskey Zulu (post # 5568) said:
But they do not declare a strike that ultimately may bring down everybody else's jobs. They do not threaten the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of other people in allied jobs in their company. They have a modicum of consideration for external contractors' staff and families.
Or is being selfish and egotistical just the BASSA way of doing things?
I know what I will be doing - in fact, I did it this morning. I cancelled my company's travel account with British Airways. That's £250,000 a year BA has lost.
Or put another way, that's 6.4 CSD salaries less for BA. If you like, 10 rank and file CC could have been paid with my firm's money.
YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE ALIENATED YOUR PASSENGERS WITH THIS CRASS AND SUICIDAL STRIKE THREAT.
.
"Isn't this ultimately about the right to withdraw one's labour?"
Nobody needs to declare a grievance in order "to withdraw one's labour". All one needs to do is to write a letter of resignation, hand it in to one's line manager and to leave at the completion of the appropriate period of notice. Thousands of people, up and down the land, do that every day of the year.But they do not declare a strike that ultimately may bring down everybody else's jobs. They do not threaten the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of other people in allied jobs in their company. They have a modicum of consideration for external contractors' staff and families.
Or is being selfish and egotistical just the BASSA way of doing things?
I know what I will be doing - in fact, I did it this morning. I cancelled my company's travel account with British Airways. That's £250,000 a year BA has lost.
Or put another way, that's 6.4 CSD salaries less for BA. If you like, 10 rank and file CC could have been paid with my firm's money.
YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE ALIENATED YOUR PASSENGERS WITH THIS CRASS AND SUICIDAL STRIKE THREAT.
.
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Lauderdale
Your arrogance is breathtaking...................................
So in the interest of value – for those of you who are not in a position of making a valid contribution please feel free to sit back and monitor (or join one of the many non ‘professional’ sites) however please refrain polluting an otherwise great website.
Failure to do so will result in you having to explain EPR’s, re-clear and ETOPS!
Failure to do so will result in you having to explain EPR’s, re-clear and ETOPS!
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Albert Salmon - well said - but it saddens me that through no fault of their own other BA staff (my husband) will be tarred with the same brush as CC staff when they have already accepted cuts and redundancies. If all companies do what you have just done (and I don't blame you one bit you have a business to run) and withdraw their business there won't be anything left to fight for.