British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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everynowandthen
This came about because the union could not agree with the changes BA wanted.
The Union made a counter proposal which by BA's own figures was worth £53m and this was rejected and which was worth more than the imposed conditions which BA now value at £40m.
The company imposed their conditions and the union then balloted for action.
The Union made a counter proposal which by BA's own figures was worth £53m and this was rejected and which was worth more than the imposed conditions which BA now value at £40m.
The company imposed their conditions and the union then balloted for action.
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whiskey zulu - yes they do have a right to strike but did the union tell them 'well if you strike it will be for 12 days over the christmas period' I wonder if they would have got 92% then
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The Union made a counter proposal which by BA's own figures was worth £53m and this was rejected and which was worth more than the imposed conditions which BA now value at £40m.
PWC were asked to audit these figures and said that they were worth 54 million. BA therefore rejected them as inadequate. It was not "BA's own figure", it was PWC's figure, and they are internationally respected auditors.
BASSA have pretty well acted like spoiled children ever since they were found out.
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AL....am I being thick here?
You're saying that Mr Union man says "Here you go Mr BA man, heres 53m quid of savings" but Mr BA man says "nope, be off with you from the negotiating table. I want 40m quid of savings & I won't accept a penny more. In fact, consider my savings imposed" ??
You're saying that Mr Union man says "Here you go Mr BA man, heres 53m quid of savings" but Mr BA man says "nope, be off with you from the negotiating table. I want 40m quid of savings & I won't accept a penny more. In fact, consider my savings imposed" ??
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everynowandthen,
You're not being thick, the BASSA version makes no sense. Probably because it's crap.
edited to add - it's only BASSA that thinks the imposed changes are worth less than their offer, BA values them a bit higher.
You're not being thick, the BASSA version makes no sense. Probably because it's crap.
edited to add - it's only BASSA that thinks the imposed changes are worth less than their offer, BA values them a bit higher.
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Quote:
BBC/Business News 1300GMT Today: The number of people unemployed in the UK rose by 21,000 between August and October to 2.49 million.
and to think BA only need 9000 of them to replace the baa baa BASSA sheep.
BBC/Business News 1300GMT Today: The number of people unemployed in the UK rose by 21,000 between August and October to 2.49 million.
and to think BA only need 9000 of them to replace the baa baa BASSA sheep.
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The imposed changes to current crew may be £40 mill - is that verified? Remember BA has said any new crew will be on new terms - that'll be the rest of the savings then.
All the BASSA rhetoric is actually referring to the new fleet changes (paycuts/promotion/days off) which they cant actually strike over.
All the BASSA rhetoric is actually referring to the new fleet changes (paycuts/promotion/days off) which they cant actually strike over.
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everynowandthen
As Desertia said the figures quoted are independently verified - £53m was offered as a saving by the union - the company said no.
As you can see there is more to this than meets the eye - the company wanted to change the agreements permanently - hence they made imposed changes which they themselves value at £40m. It was never about cost cutting it was about changing agreements and contracts
The union did not agree with the changes as they felt they where contractual - and they balloted for strike - the union has once again offered BA the £53m of savings which once again they rejected.
As you can see there is more to this than meets the eye - the company wanted to change the agreements permanently - hence they made imposed changes which they themselves value at £40m. It was never about cost cutting it was about changing agreements and contracts
The union did not agree with the changes as they felt they where contractual - and they balloted for strike - the union has once again offered BA the £53m of savings which once again they rejected.
BA CC Average earnings - the facts
The average pay for BA cabin crew is £29,900, according to the UK Civil Aviation Authority. This compares with an average of £20,200 at easyJet and £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic Airlines. At XL Airways UK crew receive an average of £6,900.
But wages among BA’s 13,500 cabin crew are far from uniform. The majority work out of Heathrow, where they earn far more than colleagues at Gatwick. Long-haul staff receive several thousand pounds more than those working short-haul routes.
The wages paid to cabin crew on board a single aircraft also vary wildly. The most senior grade, cabin services directors, earn basic pay of £38,006, which is almost £20,000 higher than the average pay of the main crew.
When allowances for overtime and food are included, the most senior crew earn an average of £56,325 on long-haul flights, which includes £18,319 in allowances. Pursers earn £49,810, including £17,670 in allowances. Main crew earn £34,980, including £16,287 in allowances.
This compares with £27,422 paid to BA crew managers working out of Gatwick, £23,778 to pursers flying from there and £18,323 for main crew.
The company says that cabin crew working on a four-day return flight between Heathrow and Tokyo receive £935 in allowances on top of their salary every time they make the trip. Those on a six-day return trip to Shanghai receive £866 in allowances.
But wages among BA’s 13,500 cabin crew are far from uniform. The majority work out of Heathrow, where they earn far more than colleagues at Gatwick. Long-haul staff receive several thousand pounds more than those working short-haul routes.
The wages paid to cabin crew on board a single aircraft also vary wildly. The most senior grade, cabin services directors, earn basic pay of £38,006, which is almost £20,000 higher than the average pay of the main crew.
When allowances for overtime and food are included, the most senior crew earn an average of £56,325 on long-haul flights, which includes £18,319 in allowances. Pursers earn £49,810, including £17,670 in allowances. Main crew earn £34,980, including £16,287 in allowances.
This compares with £27,422 paid to BA crew managers working out of Gatwick, £23,778 to pursers flying from there and £18,323 for main crew.
The company says that cabin crew working on a four-day return flight between Heathrow and Tokyo receive £935 in allowances on top of their salary every time they make the trip. Those on a six-day return trip to Shanghai receive £866 in allowances.
They didn't. The journo took that from the CAA web-site.
Quite why the CAA publishes this stuff, I have no idea, but it does make an interesting read.
Quite why the CAA publishes this stuff, I have no idea, but it does make an interesting read.
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ladyxxxx
I think this is more or less the story.
Unite is the result of the eventual merger between Amicus and the TGWU a couple of years ago. Each of those unions was in their own turn a merger or amalgamation of other unions. Unite has over two million members and is the largest union in the UK. It exists to further the interests of workers in the UK and also overseas and to better enable them to deal with the challenges presented by the labour markets and forces in the 21st century. BASSA, which is an association of British AirlineS (my big S) Stewards and Stewardesses is a sub group of Unite. Unite also, in its charter, exists to promote its members interests politically. Therefore it is no democratic organization because it is by its own definition a political entity or and membership, for which you pay, presumes adherence to the party political line which is a bit far left or communist.
Hum-Confised? I also. But I think that technically the strike has been called by Unite acting as the protective umbrella for BASSA, the association, in this case the BA part of that association, which has voted by 92% on an 80% turn out, to strike. It is quite conclusive that the vote for a strike on the part of BASSA was overwhelming. Anyone who had done their union research would know that the timing of the strike was then going to be up to the militant factor. Militants are not known for their sense of christian charity. Trotsky deserved what he got all those years ago in Mexico but his venom lives on after him.
???
I think this is more or less the story.
Unite is the result of the eventual merger between Amicus and the TGWU a couple of years ago. Each of those unions was in their own turn a merger or amalgamation of other unions. Unite has over two million members and is the largest union in the UK. It exists to further the interests of workers in the UK and also overseas and to better enable them to deal with the challenges presented by the labour markets and forces in the 21st century. BASSA, which is an association of British AirlineS (my big S) Stewards and Stewardesses is a sub group of Unite. Unite also, in its charter, exists to promote its members interests politically. Therefore it is no democratic organization because it is by its own definition a political entity or and membership, for which you pay, presumes adherence to the party political line which is a bit far left or communist.
Hum-Confised? I also. But I think that technically the strike has been called by Unite acting as the protective umbrella for BASSA, the association, in this case the BA part of that association, which has voted by 92% on an 80% turn out, to strike. It is quite conclusive that the vote for a strike on the part of BASSA was overwhelming. Anyone who had done their union research would know that the timing of the strike was then going to be up to the militant factor. Militants are not known for their sense of christian charity. Trotsky deserved what he got all those years ago in Mexico but his venom lives on after him.
???
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Forgive me if the figures are a little bit out but....
BA wants £140 million savings from CC. £40m will come from the reduced crewing levels, and £100m from the introduction of new fleet. The £100m will not be realised right away, but in 3 or 4 years those are the savings we'll see. Savings that will be realised every year from then on, (apart from inflation!)
BASSA offered a self calculated £173million worth of savings, which was later found out to be worth £53m (somewhat short of £140m). BUT, and it is a very big BUT... BASSA wanted this money paid back to CC within 2 years.. So BA saves £53m this year and then is right back were it started in 2 years time. "Temporary solutions for temporary problems" was the mantra.
Before anyone says that the CC were being asked to save too big a chunk of money.. Every other Dept in the airline has contributed savings over the past 10 years.. BASSA refused, so it has now all gone into one very LARGE pot! Too BAD!
So offering temporary savings of £53m when the company wanted £140m every year was never going to be a good enough offer, so the company refused... Simple really.
CB
BA wants £140 million savings from CC. £40m will come from the reduced crewing levels, and £100m from the introduction of new fleet. The £100m will not be realised right away, but in 3 or 4 years those are the savings we'll see. Savings that will be realised every year from then on, (apart from inflation!)
BASSA offered a self calculated £173million worth of savings, which was later found out to be worth £53m (somewhat short of £140m). BUT, and it is a very big BUT... BASSA wanted this money paid back to CC within 2 years.. So BA saves £53m this year and then is right back were it started in 2 years time. "Temporary solutions for temporary problems" was the mantra.
Before anyone says that the CC were being asked to save too big a chunk of money.. Every other Dept in the airline has contributed savings over the past 10 years.. BASSA refused, so it has now all gone into one very LARGE pot! Too BAD!
So offering temporary savings of £53m when the company wanted £140m every year was never going to be a good enough offer, so the company refused... Simple really.
CB
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... and now they'll want the costs of the strike covered on top. Expect the cabin crew to have to find well over £200m in savings when this is all over.