British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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ATOBREAK LOW
WILL HAVE TO AGREE TO DIFFER ON THIS CONTRAVERTIAL POINT.Youre comparison is not valid,a csd with 20 years of experience cannot be compared to a shop floor worker,he /she has the role of managing a crew of 10/15 crew and the responsibility of looking after the welfare of xxx passengers.The flight crew may have the ultimate legal responsibility on board but the roles cannot be compared when it comes to financial renummeration.If you want to stick with this analogy the csd would be the shop floor steward who would after 20 years of service would be earning more than a new junior mannager.
WILL HAVE TO AGREE TO DIFFER ON THIS CONTRAVERTIAL POINT.Youre comparison is not valid,a csd with 20 years of experience cannot be compared to a shop floor worker,he /she has the role of managing a crew of 10/15 crew and the responsibility of looking after the welfare of xxx passengers.The flight crew may have the ultimate legal responsibility on board but the roles cannot be compared when it comes to financial renummeration.If you want to stick with this analogy the csd would be the shop floor steward who would after 20 years of service would be earning more than a new junior mannager.
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They have agreed to meet BA but Woodley is still saying under no circumstances will the strike threat be removed until imposition is "suspended and rosters restored" "pause for peace" blah blah
In which case I would think the meeting will not last very long, as WW has no other choice than to point at the door.
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Learn from the past
All, dont you ever learn fom the past. Evolve or die. And as sure as eggs are eggs both unions of BA will die. Which they should have done years ago. Both dont do anybody any favours except themselves........please read betwen the lines
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Precisely
They are playing with words for PR to be able to trail "we have offered a second pause for peace in 5 days" having offered the same last Friday.
He attempted to argue it wasn't a pre-condition, when blatantly it is !
So they meet, UNITE say, we will call off if you remove imposition, WW says that's a pre-condition, then where ???
UNITE trumpet we offered again and BA are ruining 1,000,000 christmases.....and trail that on the news soundbites.....
I hope not, but sounds like a waste of time, although I guess any talking is better than no talking.......
He attempted to argue it wasn't a pre-condition, when blatantly it is !
So they meet, UNITE say, we will call off if you remove imposition, WW says that's a pre-condition, then where ???
UNITE trumpet we offered again and BA are ruining 1,000,000 christmases.....and trail that on the news soundbites.....
I hope not, but sounds like a waste of time, although I guess any talking is better than no talking.......
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But what about the whooping , cheering and high-fiving that occurred at Waterside when Bill Francis announced the imposition of new crewing levels to all managers present. That was almost disturbing.
Unless you can show us a video, please stop coming up with these sorry urban legends. And we don't want to hear about the 175 million of fictitious savings any more either.
Why don't you try and come up with something new (and truthful?).
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Electric flyer -
I don't know about that - all I do know is that they were voting to ruin a million holidays - I don't think the BA Managers at Waterside were doing that. We live in an electronic age - and the video was for all intents and purposes recorded by a CC person at the ballot as no press were allowed. Unfortunately the public who's holidays are being ruined have access to this. If they want to whoop and cheer in private fine - but what is private these days....
I don't know about that - all I do know is that they were voting to ruin a million holidays - I don't think the BA Managers at Waterside were doing that. We live in an electronic age - and the video was for all intents and purposes recorded by a CC person at the ballot as no press were allowed. Unfortunately the public who's holidays are being ruined have access to this. If they want to whoop and cheer in private fine - but what is private these days....
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Unite and BASSA brinkmanship
What options are open to the BA management team to safeguard the airlines future and that of all of its staff now that UNITE are grounding the airline for 12 days?
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I think if Tony Woodley came into my office using such venomous invective, and in the arrogant tone he's just displayed on Sky News, I'd bend his arm behind his back and throw the arrogant little **** out of the building myself.
No wonder BA find it so difficult to negotiate if they have try and make sense of this unintelligible Spartist bleating.
No wonder BA find it so difficult to negotiate if they have try and make sense of this unintelligible Spartist bleating.
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I have worked for easyJet for 6 years, never went for sccm because it doesn't appeal to me.
I have just gone through my past pay slips and the highest I have ever been paid in the last 6 years was £16,000.
For the work I do I think it is a very nice pay deal!! Do I want a bit more, hell yes! So do you know what I am doing about it, resting my Maths GCSE so I get all 5 GCSE A-C, then putting my application in for the air force, where over a period of time, I will learn a new skill and will be rewarded financially and my skill and experience improves.
As cabin crew I can not understand why you are doing this to yourselves, have a look at the job market at the minute, there isn't a lot out there.
But on the other hand I must thank you, because I will now be much busier over the xmas period!
I have just gone through my past pay slips and the highest I have ever been paid in the last 6 years was £16,000.
For the work I do I think it is a very nice pay deal!! Do I want a bit more, hell yes! So do you know what I am doing about it, resting my Maths GCSE so I get all 5 GCSE A-C, then putting my application in for the air force, where over a period of time, I will learn a new skill and will be rewarded financially and my skill and experience improves.
As cabin crew I can not understand why you are doing this to yourselves, have a look at the job market at the minute, there isn't a lot out there.
But on the other hand I must thank you, because I will now be much busier over the xmas period!
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What options are open to the BA management team to safeguard the airlines future and that of all of its staff now that UNITE are grounding the airline for 12 days?
Replace them with the thousands that will queue up to get the job at half the salary.
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Isn't this ultimately about the right to withdraw one's labour?
The slave has to work, whether he likes it or not. Slavery denies to the enslaved their basic human rights. The slave is treated by the master like an unfeeling production unit, is kept and maintained while productive.
The master in effect owns and controls the slave through what he can force the slave to do by means of the laws of the land <1> and by force of economic necessity.
The free man may withdraw his labour. He enters into a voluntary agreement with someone else in which he agrees to carry out some specified work in return for a specified amount of pay. If there is disagreement between them he may freely withdraw his labour. This is a most essential right, the right of every citizen, of every worker, to associate with others and withdraw his labour, to go on strike.
Admittedly, the slave analogy is OTT, but the point is valid?
2p
The slave has to work, whether he likes it or not. Slavery denies to the enslaved their basic human rights. The slave is treated by the master like an unfeeling production unit, is kept and maintained while productive.
The master in effect owns and controls the slave through what he can force the slave to do by means of the laws of the land <1> and by force of economic necessity.
The free man may withdraw his labour. He enters into a voluntary agreement with someone else in which he agrees to carry out some specified work in return for a specified amount of pay. If there is disagreement between them he may freely withdraw his labour. This is a most essential right, the right of every citizen, of every worker, to associate with others and withdraw his labour, to go on strike.
Admittedly, the slave analogy is OTT, but the point is valid?
2p
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Henkybaby
As I have maintained - I didn't think that striking over the Christmas period would enamour the public to the CC - however as I also said - I hoped that this may well force both parties around the table to try to sort this whole mess out - let's see what this afternoon brings.
I must admit as well Henkybaby, I was away for a couple of days but reading back through some of the posts on here from BA Flight Crew - who by their rank are deemed Senior Managers - and I really do feel that the divide between 'them and us' has become much wider.
Also as this is a public forum, some work colleagues really do need to be mindful of what they say
I must admit as well Henkybaby, I was away for a couple of days but reading back through some of the posts on here from BA Flight Crew - who by their rank are deemed Senior Managers - and I really do feel that the divide between 'them and us' has become much wider.
Also as this is a public forum, some work colleagues really do need to be mindful of what they say
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Desertia: 100% agree with you - its time BA came into the 21st century which means it staff has too - its fallen behind and will fall even further until it sinks without trace - no-one wants that - Keep up with changes or resign - or as Desertia says be fired...
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Whats it all about . . . .
I am not cc, I do not work for BA and I am not pax flying over the proposed strike period. I, like everyone else am fed up with the who earns what debate and think it is pointless.
Should the person at the pointy end earn more? Probably. Should the person who has 25 years service in what ever position in the back earn more? Probably.
Who actually cares?!?!? Each of the people have signed up to their contract with their t's and c's and thats their lot. If they decide they want more, they apply for promotion or go else where!
From what is said there is no threat of pay cuts. Everyone has to work a little harder in every industry until the better times return, by which time it will have become the norm and everyone carries on getting on with it, but they work for a better run more prosperous and secure company as part of the reward.
Should new people starting carears have different t's and c's? Why should anyone already employed care? The new people sign their contract and are happy with it. What is to be gained by a strike? What are you protecting? The dinosaur t's and c's are killing the airline and do need to change. This is not overnight, but as people move on, retire or get promoted, they should be replaced with a cheaper more profitable alternative who is happy to sign up to that contract.
Have I missed something . . . or what is it all about?
Should the person at the pointy end earn more? Probably. Should the person who has 25 years service in what ever position in the back earn more? Probably.
Who actually cares?!?!? Each of the people have signed up to their contract with their t's and c's and thats their lot. If they decide they want more, they apply for promotion or go else where!
From what is said there is no threat of pay cuts. Everyone has to work a little harder in every industry until the better times return, by which time it will have become the norm and everyone carries on getting on with it, but they work for a better run more prosperous and secure company as part of the reward.
Should new people starting carears have different t's and c's? Why should anyone already employed care? The new people sign their contract and are happy with it. What is to be gained by a strike? What are you protecting? The dinosaur t's and c's are killing the airline and do need to change. This is not overnight, but as people move on, retire or get promoted, they should be replaced with a cheaper more profitable alternative who is happy to sign up to that contract.
Have I missed something . . . or what is it all about?
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Whiskey Zulu:
It may be everyone's right to strike - but the alternative is if your not happy with your lot you can resign and get another job. What CC are doing will affect the whole airline worldwide not just them - a bit of thought for the future wouldn't go amiss. I wonder when applying for other CC jobs with other airlines at much lower pay and conditions when there is no longer a BA to work for will they wonder what if.... - far far too late
It may be everyone's right to strike - but the alternative is if your not happy with your lot you can resign and get another job. What CC are doing will affect the whole airline worldwide not just them - a bit of thought for the future wouldn't go amiss. I wonder when applying for other CC jobs with other airlines at much lower pay and conditions when there is no longer a BA to work for will they wonder what if.... - far far too late
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But what about the whooping , cheering and high-fiving that occurred at Waterside when Bill Francis announced the imposition of new crewing levels to all managers present. That was almost disturbing.
Right beside the ww anouncing your 40% pay cut and the handing out of rolex's at the flight ops retirement ball in monte carlo!
Where you there when they started clapping at waterside? Bet you know somebody who's sister met somebody who etc etc etc
Every time a unite/bassa troll attempts to propegate yet another bit of political spin they insult out intelligence. You may have bought your unions pathetic lies but nobody else has.
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ladyxxxx
Regardless of other options, union members have the 'right' to strike if they feel compelled to do so. 92% is pretty solid support for their right to take (or until it actually happens, threaten) such action.
Regardless of other options, union members have the 'right' to strike if they feel compelled to do so. 92% is pretty solid support for their right to take (or until it actually happens, threaten) such action.
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Am sorry to be asking this but am getting confused. Did it all come to this because....
a) BA said that new conditions are being imposed & that is that or..
b) did this situation arise as Bassa/Unite weren't prepared to negotiate at all to get costs down & therefore impositions were unleashed
c) none of the above
I have read/followed this thread but am my brain is not what it used to be.
a) BA said that new conditions are being imposed & that is that or..
b) did this situation arise as Bassa/Unite weren't prepared to negotiate at all to get costs down & therefore impositions were unleashed
c) none of the above
I have read/followed this thread but am my brain is not what it used to be.
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Re #5568
BBC/Business News 1300GMT Today: The number of people unemployed in the UK rose by 21,000 between August and October to 2.49 million.