British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Crash and Burn
Thanks that has explained it all to me really clearly.
I assume the CC knew what BASSA were doing and were consulted along the way - or do they just turn a blind eye and let them get on with it.
How can they expect to get it back - what world are they living in - they should go and dance down the yellow brick road thats how far from reality they are.
Do these union guys work for BA? If not its not them who will be looking for jobs next year then or claiming unemployment benefit.
How stupid and shortsighted are people - this is all our futures they are messing with CC staff or not!!! I am so mad
Thanks that has explained it all to me really clearly.
I assume the CC knew what BASSA were doing and were consulted along the way - or do they just turn a blind eye and let them get on with it.
How can they expect to get it back - what world are they living in - they should go and dance down the yellow brick road thats how far from reality they are.
Do these union guys work for BA? If not its not them who will be looking for jobs next year then or claiming unemployment benefit.
How stupid and shortsighted are people - this is all our futures they are messing with CC staff or not!!! I am so mad
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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It would probably depend whether or not he was prepared to have a sensible discussion with BA beforehand.
Mrs HF works for BA and had her contract changed in May without her agreement. Unite didn't lift a finger for her.
Mrs HF works for BA and had her contract changed in May without her agreement. Unite didn't lift a finger for her.
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Ancient Observer, good post, very clear information, easy to understand why CC will fight tooth and nail.
May be the same post with some of the great T+Cs CC have gained over the years will show an even better picture.
CC unions and weak management over many years have made this party, now we have strong managemant and unions are still in the 1970s, looks like a good show, CC will be using the quickest fast track lane ever seen, if it takes the 12 day show to change all those years of head in the sand working practices, it will be worth it, changes are coming, the quicker they come, the better for most staff at the airline.
May be the same post with some of the great T+Cs CC have gained over the years will show an even better picture.
CC unions and weak management over many years have made this party, now we have strong managemant and unions are still in the 1970s, looks like a good show, CC will be using the quickest fast track lane ever seen, if it takes the 12 day show to change all those years of head in the sand working practices, it will be worth it, changes are coming, the quicker they come, the better for most staff at the airline.
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I remember a while back that BASSA had to get "permission" to hold a ballot from UNITE.
Unite had the power to say no but once they said yes it was totally upto BASSA how and what they did.
UNITE had no further say in the matter.
This was clearly shown last night on the ITN news when the UNITE big boss denied all knowledge of the BASSA email and also said he felt the 12 day strike was over the top.
It seems apparent that UNITE thinks BASSA have over reacted.
The question is that do UNITE now have the power to call off the strike or can only BASSA do that?
Who runs this show, BASSA or UNITE? I'm confused now.
Unite had the power to say no but once they said yes it was totally upto BASSA how and what they did.
UNITE had no further say in the matter.
This was clearly shown last night on the ITN news when the UNITE big boss denied all knowledge of the BASSA email and also said he felt the 12 day strike was over the top.
It seems apparent that UNITE thinks BASSA have over reacted.
The question is that do UNITE now have the power to call off the strike or can only BASSA do that?
Who runs this show, BASSA or UNITE? I'm confused now.
They get all that for HALF_TIME working
Those salaries that I put in an earlier post..........
I forgot to add that they only work a Maximum of 900 hours per year.
The average UK salary is £22,000 for 1700 hours per year.
BA CC average £30,000 for 900 hours per year. ...........50% more for HALF the working time!!!
I forgot to add that they only work a Maximum of 900 hours per year.
The average UK salary is £22,000 for 1700 hours per year.
BA CC average £30,000 for 900 hours per year. ...........50% more for HALF the working time!!!
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A Lurker - where did this 40 million come from? If it's from BASSA then it has no credibility, as we know from their earlier maths.
Did BA say they have saved 40 million since imposition?
In one month?
Did BA say they have saved 40 million since imposition?
In one month?
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Originally Posted by A Lurker
So if your husband had a contract with BA and they then wanted to change that contract without his agreement - what do you think he would say?
-Anger and frustration at it happening
-Some Communication between him and BA to see if there was any miscommunication on anyone's parts
-If that wasn't settled then, court or tribunal action to see the end result.
-Wait for the ruling
-Take appropriate action or compensation
And that is exactly what this "husband" aka BASSA/Unite did. They went to court and the court declared "We need to look at this further, come back in February". Until then, I am in the belief that the husband and anyone else in the same situation are to honour your side of the contract entirely, even if it angers one entirely and allow the breaching party to continue breaching their side until the date. That way, the husband protected himself from any attempt at counter suing attempts by BA and the court can look at the husband in good faith, thus having a higher chance of ruling in my husband's favour.
If the husband won this case, then I would anticipate some form of major compensation to him (Perhaps extra paid vacation days, extra sums of money or other bonuses).
Instead however, the husband decided to take what I would presume would be an illegal strike action (As action to sort the contract as been taken and is channelling through the system of legalese) according to the contracts signed and the Judge would look at this and come up with a potentially different result, which may or may not be in your favour. This also opens up the opportunity for the husband to be counter sued- for losses caused by not fulfilling his end.
The winner of this court battle is not whom the judge sides with, but rather who has to make a bigger payout and to whom. Why this? Money talks, people like money and if they get some, even if they are morally wrong, as long as it's legal- they will not care!
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A Lurker: they have changed his contract and he has accepted it along with thousands of other ground crew - he doesn't like it but knows if everybody refuses there will be no airline - his contracts have been altered over the years to align with the ever changing airline world. This is much the same in terrible times - we are in the worst recession in living memory - people are being made redundant every day - why are you so blinkered - tomorrow you may not have a job to fight for.
When or if BA survive they may be bought out by another airline - Virgin for example as the share price will go so low that BA will become an easy target - do you think for one minute contracts are going to remain the same - no way - think about next year and the year after - the question is do you want BA to survive or not - its losing millions each week - the first law of business is cut your overheads - they are not asking for compulsory redundancies. All businesses want to keep their staff employed but sometimes things have to change to do this. I run a small business with 20 employees - this year they have been told no pay increases, no Christmas bonuses which they usually get and no elaborate christmas parties - do they moan and strike - NO they are happy to just keep their jobs and that is why we are doing it. If you give it now you can't get it back and its too late.
When or if BA survive they may be bought out by another airline - Virgin for example as the share price will go so low that BA will become an easy target - do you think for one minute contracts are going to remain the same - no way - think about next year and the year after - the question is do you want BA to survive or not - its losing millions each week - the first law of business is cut your overheads - they are not asking for compulsory redundancies. All businesses want to keep their staff employed but sometimes things have to change to do this. I run a small business with 20 employees - this year they have been told no pay increases, no Christmas bonuses which they usually get and no elaborate christmas parties - do they moan and strike - NO they are happy to just keep their jobs and that is why we are doing it. If you give it now you can't get it back and its too late.
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unfair
They get all that for HALF_TIME working
That is a lot of duty time, a lot of jet lag and a lot of night flying.
It equates to doing a stateside trip two days off, another trip two days off etc for ever.
To fly 1700 hours per year you could not have a day off!
Shorthaul on the other hand is inefficient, so yes shorthaul crew do get those salaries for close to half the work.
They average 500 ish flying hours per year vs 700 for pilots.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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To be fair to Lurker/Ancient Observer, the limits are 900 hours flying time (brakes off to brakes on) and 2000 hours duty time (report until end of duty) per year.
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Having been an active participant in this from the beginning it is all extremely sad.
Huge thanks to Mr Bunker and others for defending some of us NO VOTING cabin crew. Unfortunately when you are one person, one lone voice or even a handful of people trying to speak out amongst 14000 it is very difficult, nay impossible, to make yourself heard.
On top of that we have endured ABSOLUTE BULLYING tactics by the Union. We have been bullied on our very own internal BA forum and it was closed down because of it, we have been bullied on the BASSA forum, and also on CrewForum. You could be (and I have been) alienated on a flight by the rest of the crew if you mention the words VOTE NO in the same sentence.
I fully understand the anger that our customers must feel - and myself, Tiramisu, Slidebustle, and many others on here are determined in whatever small way we can to try and help you get to where you need to be for Christmas. Believe me we feel your anger too because we didn't want this to happen, we have tried to warn our colleagues about the damage that would happen but we have been literally trampled on in the process. Now we must go to work and face the wrath (understandably) of the public. We also stand to lose our jobs, - and the company we love and have all worked for for many many years is slowly disintegrating infront of us. For the last 9 months we have been powerless to stop it.
Somehow, we must move forward. I hope the Injunction is successful, for the sake of all our customers. But I also hope that BA sues UNITE into the ground, and claims every possible penny that they can.
Those of you looking in from the outside, only know the half of it. This Union must never be allowed to operate, or receive subscriptions from anyone again. They are quite simply evil. They lie, they threaten and they use innocent people as scapegoats. The one and only thing that I am thankful for in this whole sorry mess is that now the whole world knows what we, BA Cabin Crew have been up against for years.
Get rid of the Union, and BA will be great again.
Good Luck in Court Mr W. We are all praying for a victory.
I am BA Cabin Crew and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
Huge thanks to Mr Bunker and others for defending some of us NO VOTING cabin crew. Unfortunately when you are one person, one lone voice or even a handful of people trying to speak out amongst 14000 it is very difficult, nay impossible, to make yourself heard.
On top of that we have endured ABSOLUTE BULLYING tactics by the Union. We have been bullied on our very own internal BA forum and it was closed down because of it, we have been bullied on the BASSA forum, and also on CrewForum. You could be (and I have been) alienated on a flight by the rest of the crew if you mention the words VOTE NO in the same sentence.
I fully understand the anger that our customers must feel - and myself, Tiramisu, Slidebustle, and many others on here are determined in whatever small way we can to try and help you get to where you need to be for Christmas. Believe me we feel your anger too because we didn't want this to happen, we have tried to warn our colleagues about the damage that would happen but we have been literally trampled on in the process. Now we must go to work and face the wrath (understandably) of the public. We also stand to lose our jobs, - and the company we love and have all worked for for many many years is slowly disintegrating infront of us. For the last 9 months we have been powerless to stop it.
Somehow, we must move forward. I hope the Injunction is successful, for the sake of all our customers. But I also hope that BA sues UNITE into the ground, and claims every possible penny that they can.
Those of you looking in from the outside, only know the half of it. This Union must never be allowed to operate, or receive subscriptions from anyone again. They are quite simply evil. They lie, they threaten and they use innocent people as scapegoats. The one and only thing that I am thankful for in this whole sorry mess is that now the whole world knows what we, BA Cabin Crew have been up against for years.
Get rid of the Union, and BA will be great again.
Good Luck in Court Mr W. We are all praying for a victory.
I am BA Cabin Crew and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
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The £40m is a BA figure.
£40m is the yearly savings of having 1000 less crew, 3000 on part time (savings from wages and NI and pensions etc) and the reduced cost of Hotac and allowances for having 1 less onboard.
Amazing how much you can save from such a tiny, insignificant, change. If it was two off, the savings would have been £80m amazing... over half the target set by the company......
CB
£40m is the yearly savings of having 1000 less crew, 3000 on part time (savings from wages and NI and pensions etc) and the reduced cost of Hotac and allowances for having 1 less onboard.
Amazing how much you can save from such a tiny, insignificant, change. If it was two off, the savings would have been £80m amazing... over half the target set by the company......
CB
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On arrival at LHR yesterday a passenger who was disembarking stated that BA CC were now public enemy No.1 and despised more than Car clampers and Traffic Wardens!
Sadly UNITE have ruined what little goodwill remained with the majority, if not all BA pax.
Mrs Darkstar also works for BA over in Waterworld and her dept. have suffered nearly 18% cuts in their MPE and they had no say in it at all. BUT they kept their jobs. Now the CC/BASSA seem hell bent on taking everything and everyone with them. What a bl**din' selfish bunch of
Sadly UNITE have ruined what little goodwill remained with the majority, if not all BA pax.
Mrs Darkstar also works for BA over in Waterworld and her dept. have suffered nearly 18% cuts in their MPE and they had no say in it at all. BUT they kept their jobs. Now the CC/BASSA seem hell bent on taking everything and everyone with them. What a bl**din' selfish bunch of
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I work a 60 hour + week every week apart form the 5 weeks holiday I get.
Maybe stopping to grab a half hour break for a sandwich at lunch. No cosy 2 hour breaks in my day for a sleep.
Anyone who lives near to cabin crew know you are home more than you are at work, it's a part time job on a blummin good full time salary. Our local Gym relies on the crew to keep them going, they spend so much time there.
Maybe stopping to grab a half hour break for a sandwich at lunch. No cosy 2 hour breaks in my day for a sleep.
Anyone who lives near to cabin crew know you are home more than you are at work, it's a part time job on a blummin good full time salary. Our local Gym relies on the crew to keep them going, they spend so much time there.
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To Hiflyer 14 and all the other non-striking CC.
On behalf of the being 'one of the public' even though I travel as staff (my husband is BA Ground crew) I applaud you all. I hope as many of you will work as is possible and will ignore the growing resentment around you.
Keep to your convictions - you are morally right and no-one can take that away from you - I wonder when it comes right down to it who will have that courage to turn up for work. More than we may think.
I don't believe so many will strike when they must now understand the backlash against them and the company that has kept them in work.
Have they been misled by the Union - I don't know but I do expect they didn't think they would be striking for 12 days over Christmas.
Is this someone's idea of a bad joke. I don't know any other industry that has striked for such a long time apart from the miners in the 70's.
On behalf of the being 'one of the public' even though I travel as staff (my husband is BA Ground crew) I applaud you all. I hope as many of you will work as is possible and will ignore the growing resentment around you.
Keep to your convictions - you are morally right and no-one can take that away from you - I wonder when it comes right down to it who will have that courage to turn up for work. More than we may think.
I don't believe so many will strike when they must now understand the backlash against them and the company that has kept them in work.
Have they been misled by the Union - I don't know but I do expect they didn't think they would be striking for 12 days over Christmas.
Is this someone's idea of a bad joke. I don't know any other industry that has striked for such a long time apart from the miners in the 70's.
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I think we are going to start seeing a lot of reports about passengers being abusive towards CC on the run up to the strike. I'd also wonder about disgruntled passengers being tempted to approach picket lines to vent a bit.
The reporting that 90% voted yes will legitimize in many people's mind that most all CC should be assumed to have contributed towards their holiday woes and are legitimate targets.
On the other hand, I expect cc who show up for work despite the strike will be appreciated by the passengers quite a bit.
It will be interesting to read the reports of interactions between CC and SLF over the next couple weeks.
The reporting that 90% voted yes will legitimize in many people's mind that most all CC should be assumed to have contributed towards their holiday woes and are legitimate targets.
On the other hand, I expect cc who show up for work despite the strike will be appreciated by the passengers quite a bit.
It will be interesting to read the reports of interactions between CC and SLF over the next couple weeks.