British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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henkybaby
The 900 hours is a legal maximum that crew are allowed to fly (Civil Aviation Authority) - this takes into account the effects of working at altitude which as you know the cabin is pressurised to circa 7000 feet above sea level - and as a consequence any activity undertaken (pulling heavy carts and trolleys and even walking around ) takes more effort than if one was at sea level plus continuously crossing multiple time zones and the 'jet lag' this brings.
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Alurker
Thanks for your answer a couple of pages ago. Lets hope that this does not escalate any further. It certainly is a strange turn of events...
Edit to add:
I am not disputing that the 900hrs is a mandatory maximum and probably with good reason. I was merely suggesting that a lot of people have tough(er) jobs with more hours and less pay. I would be nice if CC could at least admit they do not have the worst job/remuneration ratio in the world...
Edit to add:
I am not disputing that the 900hrs is a mandatory maximum and probably with good reason. I was merely suggesting that a lot of people have tough(er) jobs with more hours and less pay. I would be nice if CC could at least admit they do not have the worst job/remuneration ratio in the world...
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I suspect the reason a lot of crew who voted for industrial action were hoping for a 3 day strike was so that they could call in sick, be scheduled off, be away from base etc and then return to work having given Willie a bloody nose.
A 12 day strike really shows a commitment to your cause and I hope Willie lets you back in when you decide your ready to come back........
A 12 day strike really shows a commitment to your cause and I hope Willie lets you back in when you decide your ready to come back........
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Question
Does anybody know ? Although a strike had been called for 12 days, suppose you were only rostered to fly, for say 4 of those days, can you just withdraw your labour for those 4 (i.e just lose 4 days pay) or do you have to withdraw for all 12 ?? This is probably a really dumb question but curious if anyone has any thoughts/can enlighten ? Would BA allow you to manipulate the issue like this ?
Guess the risk is crew were then available you could then be used in those 12 days if on stby or available etc ?
PS - am not crew and absolutely abhor this action, just curious if crew could manipulate the situ to minimise financial impact on them !
Guess the risk is crew were then available you could then be used in those 12 days if on stby or available etc ?
PS - am not crew and absolutely abhor this action, just curious if crew could manipulate the situ to minimise financial impact on them !
Last edited by TOM100; 16th Dec 2009 at 16:06. Reason: to male clear am not crew and detest this union's actions
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henkybaby
It is irrelevant - I might agree I might disagree (in fact I think staff at LGW are under paid where as I believe staff at LHR (CSD) are truly overpaid)....but it is irrelevant.
This is not a public sector company - it is a private sector company, the dispute (as I much as I deplore it!) is not about pay (it is about T&C's). I agree with the changes - in fact most staff in LGW will see a (minor) improvement, although let's be clear....BA management should hang their heads in shame , because this has been a problem in the making for well over a decade now.
Wat is het koud he?!
This is not a public sector company - it is a private sector company, the dispute (as I much as I deplore it!) is not about pay (it is about T&C's). I agree with the changes - in fact most staff in LGW will see a (minor) improvement, although let's be clear....BA management should hang their heads in shame , because this has been a problem in the making for well over a decade now.
Wat is het koud he?!
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henkybaby
Hey I'm not striking, hiope Willie nails them all to the ground. Just curious if crew can manipulate this to mitigate their losses in some way ??
I agree if they mean what they say, they will see it thru in its entirety, but having numerous crew friends I know they can occasionally be a little fickle
I agree if they mean what they say, they will see it thru in its entirety, but having numerous crew friends I know they can occasionally be a little fickle
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Doubtful if crew can mitigate it. I would have thought BA will have a number of means to determine who is on strike or not. Wiping rosters and insisting that everyone reports on each of the 12 days would be one... 
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A lot of people on here have been saying how they will come to work during the strike and have indicated their wish to do so to management.
Perhaps those that intend to strike should, out of courtesy (old fashioned I know), inform BA on day one that they are on strike.
I bet they don't!!!
Perhaps those that intend to strike should, out of courtesy (old fashioned I know), inform BA on day one that they are on strike.
I bet they don't!!!
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I reiterate an earlier post. Why if legal action is already pending RE the imposed changes are Unite mustering the troops for strike action?
Spare a thought for those BA employees who have already given their time for free - taken unpaid leave, pay cuts etc. Any cost saving they have generated for the company in these troubled times has already been well negated by the bad publicity alone!! Let alone the actual strikes!
I am sick of hearing cc complain of degrading product and customers complaining about the standards of service etc. People are paying less for their ticket and the company are losing money hand over fist! The management have acted accordingly. You cannot expect to supply the same product at a loss. You have to expect some degradation in the service to return to profitability!
ANYWAY THAT IS OUTSIDE YOUR REMIT!
Spare a thought for those BA employees who have already given their time for free - taken unpaid leave, pay cuts etc. Any cost saving they have generated for the company in these troubled times has already been well negated by the bad publicity alone!! Let alone the actual strikes!
I am sick of hearing cc complain of degrading product and customers complaining about the standards of service etc. People are paying less for their ticket and the company are losing money hand over fist! The management have acted accordingly. You cannot expect to supply the same product at a loss. You have to expect some degradation in the service to return to profitability!
ANYWAY THAT IS OUTSIDE YOUR REMIT!
A Runyonesque Character
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Lauderdale: Having spent some time up in Esher (those of you in the know will know what that means...) I can tell you that the Unions are just self serving destructive monsters (incl BASSA)
The first priority of a Union is not to serve the interests of its members.
The first priority of a Union is to serve the interests of the Union
Increased productivity = fewer people doing the same amount of work = fewer members for the Union = less subscription revenue. The one thing that is anathema to the Union, to be resisted at all costs.
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A message from Willie Walsh
Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year. In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.
I need to get intouch with our pay office i earn less perhaps i should inform the Serious Fraud Office instead.
Last edited by Watersidewonker; 16th Dec 2009 at 16:24.
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I have no axe to grind here, and have no longer any connection to BA, but I would like to make a few comments, the later which will appear rather strong.
I am British, part of a union of countries (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) I'm quite proud of that. I was also quite proud that Lord King had fashioned a flag carrier to be proud of. I flew BA back to work some weeks ago and can say that it was quite possibly one of the most appalling and unfunny experiences I have ever had. The cabin service was poor and the flying quite frankly was bellow average. I will never fly BA again. Moving on.
I had a partner who worked for BA. She led an honest hard working life and allowed herself a quality of life well within her means, which to my mind were marginal given her talents. She had been a nurse but found nursing in the NHS had become too much. She had a little book and I do not tell you a lie that in that little book she meticulously accounted for every single penny she earn't and she had to because to achieve the tiniest little things that many of you, many of us take for granted she lived hand to mouth. I would never have done her or her colleagues job for the pitance of pay she got and yet I would have expected her at a moments notice and without hesitation on board an aircraft to risk everything for myself or another. And yet I as a member of the public am expected to begrudge her what little if any she had and held dear on the altar of Unite and a BA management and board both of exceptionally limited talent. I imagine that this christmas she will work and I imagine that they will still take more from her and I imagine that next year she will lose her beloved little flat that she worked so hard and for so long to get. I also imagine like so many others she will wonder why she made all those bonkers sacrifices that she did make to do her 'bit'.
To the next person that comes on here and criticises the average hard working jo CC at BA and how much they 'earn' or whinges about a possible missed christmas, I say this to you; don't. Because if you do I am going to buy you a ticket to bring you out here to where I am and I am going to tattoo on your forehead 'please kill me because I am a superficial moron'.
Its hot out here and life is cheap, considerably cheaper than anybody on heres pay packet.
I am British, part of a union of countries (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) I'm quite proud of that. I was also quite proud that Lord King had fashioned a flag carrier to be proud of. I flew BA back to work some weeks ago and can say that it was quite possibly one of the most appalling and unfunny experiences I have ever had. The cabin service was poor and the flying quite frankly was bellow average. I will never fly BA again. Moving on.
I had a partner who worked for BA. She led an honest hard working life and allowed herself a quality of life well within her means, which to my mind were marginal given her talents. She had been a nurse but found nursing in the NHS had become too much. She had a little book and I do not tell you a lie that in that little book she meticulously accounted for every single penny she earn't and she had to because to achieve the tiniest little things that many of you, many of us take for granted she lived hand to mouth. I would never have done her or her colleagues job for the pitance of pay she got and yet I would have expected her at a moments notice and without hesitation on board an aircraft to risk everything for myself or another. And yet I as a member of the public am expected to begrudge her what little if any she had and held dear on the altar of Unite and a BA management and board both of exceptionally limited talent. I imagine that this christmas she will work and I imagine that they will still take more from her and I imagine that next year she will lose her beloved little flat that she worked so hard and for so long to get. I also imagine like so many others she will wonder why she made all those bonkers sacrifices that she did make to do her 'bit'.
To the next person that comes on here and criticises the average hard working jo CC at BA and how much they 'earn' or whinges about a possible missed christmas, I say this to you; don't. Because if you do I am going to buy you a ticket to bring you out here to where I am and I am going to tattoo on your forehead 'please kill me because I am a superficial moron'.
Its hot out here and life is cheap, considerably cheaper than anybody on heres pay packet.
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With all due respect Tonka Toy, your partner is cabin crew, not a bl**dy martyr. There are plenty who sacrifice their lives for others on a daily basis and don't get nearly as many benefits. Nurses being one of them.
And I reserve the right to "whinge" (as you so eloquently put it) about my potential "missed Christmas" if I like - we all have extenuating personal circumstances, only some of us don't feel the need to parade them around on public forums.
And I reserve the right to "whinge" (as you so eloquently put it) about my potential "missed Christmas" if I like - we all have extenuating personal circumstances, only some of us don't feel the need to parade them around on public forums.
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Hi Tonka Toy, all being well, WW will sack the strikers and then they'll have some real money issues.
It's them or me and I hope to God it's them. Because if 3000 strikers are sacked, 37,000 keep their jobs in BA and we can make it a great airline once again.
Nothing excuses the way that BASSA have played this. It started by refusing to examine the accounts at BA. HOW can they make an informed judgment on what did / didn't need to be saved if they failed to take in this vital piece of information?
That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Denial of the FACTS by refusing to even do the most basic research. This awful mess has followed. Despicable.
It's them or me and I hope to God it's them. Because if 3000 strikers are sacked, 37,000 keep their jobs in BA and we can make it a great airline once again.
Nothing excuses the way that BASSA have played this. It started by refusing to examine the accounts at BA. HOW can they make an informed judgment on what did / didn't need to be saved if they failed to take in this vital piece of information?
That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Denial of the FACTS by refusing to even do the most basic research. This awful mess has followed. Despicable.
Last edited by Nutjob; 16th Dec 2009 at 17:24.
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WWW
Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. True
Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. True
Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. I haven't seen everyones P60 but given what happened to Ms Malone in the Court today I doubt Walsh would lie in public about this
According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.True
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year.True
In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.Pretty undeniable really
I need to get intouch with our pay office i earn less perhaps i should inform the Serious Fraud Office instead. I guess thats why its called average earnings - remember I see the same CC in NRT/SIN/CPT time after time
Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. True
Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. True
Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. I haven't seen everyones P60 but given what happened to Ms Malone in the Court today I doubt Walsh would lie in public about this
According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.True
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year.True
In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.Pretty undeniable really
I need to get intouch with our pay office i earn less perhaps i should inform the Serious Fraud Office instead. I guess thats why its called average earnings - remember I see the same CC in NRT/SIN/CPT time after time
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Lam - 'Ex' - 'Ex'! and when I want a lecture on martyrs and sacrifice I'll go elsewhere for that ta very much, unless you really do want that ticket! I think you may have paraded a little bit! 
Nut, -Quite!
Nut, -Quite!