British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[FL370 Officeboy]

Albert Salmon

I have no idea what you are talking about..you have well and truly lost me.

Le's see my post again:

I am a BA gold card holder who has crossed the Atlantic three times a month - exclusively with BA - for the last 11 years. Not Virgin and not any other carrier; I fly solely with BA. I have done this principally because of the superior cabin service.

So, if you have not flown with any other carrier over the last 11 years how exactly do you know BA's cabin service is superior? Surely you have nothing to compare it to?

How you got from that to:

Fao: Fl370
Be careful with what you say, FL370. Customers are totally disillusioned with the BA cabin crews' arrogance.

If we vote with our credit cards you could be out of a job in your front office sooner than you think.

FYI I don't work for BA and my airline is doing a roaring trade thank you very much....so (some of) the BA cabin crew and their arrogance are helping me keep my job in my front office!

For what it's worth, I hope WW destroys this bunch of idiots and saves the BA business. I have too many good friends who work at BA to enjoy seeing the mess they are in, however much it benefits my own employer.

[fincastle84]

Albert Salmon

YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU HAVE ALIENATED YOUR PASSENGERS WITH THIS CRASS AND SUICIDAL STRIKE THREAT

Oh I think they do know how they have alienated their customers. That's why the strike will fail & the years of restrictive practices will come to an end.

[Fume Event]

I was told by a union official around two weeks ago that the strike would be for 12 days.

Just because it was not on the ballot paper, does not mean it was not common knowledge.

[tomkins]

I heard from another one that he didnt think a strike would happen;

[Watersidewonker]

Desertia i bet that was the Daily Mail pardon me but does this mean 29k plus 16-18k allowances for BA with a total of approx 45k if so the pay office at BA seems to have short changed quite afew people. last time BA recruited cabin crew 12.5k was the basic. Perhaps if you have been with a company 20-30 years unlike Villie then your basic would be higher.

[sharksandwich]

From the Timesonline:

A BA air steward's defence



When a BA air steward responded anonymously in the comments to Daniel's post on the strike, I thought it worth highlighting their defence to get your reactions.*

Here's what they wrote:
Free speech? I think not.
I risk losing my job if I am identified. 5 senior crew have already been suspended for comments such as these. This is an honest, sincere & truthful response to the above.
Having read all the previous comments, and been deeply upset at the viciousness and hatred toward BA cabin crew, I am compelled to write "our" version of the situation, which I don't believe people are actually aware of.
In reply to those of you who think BA crew are glorified waitresses/waiters, can I just say what a short memory you have!
It was not that long ago that the crew of the BA038 were being praised as heroes for a successful evacuation and saving lives, as without their skill, professionalism and dedication that could have been a very different outcome.
Please do not be brain washed by the reports you are hearing about our salaries - £56,000 for a senior crew member, what a joke; after 23yrs with BA on longhaul, I would love to earn that kind of money. My last P60 reflected more in the region of £29,000 (75% contract), full time Max approx. £35,000 (trip dependent).
As an in charge crew member, now doing 2 jobs, my own and that of the Club Purser (who the company have removed without negotiation either with us or the Unions), then I feel no one has the right to question what I earn.
BA get more than their money's worth out of me and my colleagues. I manage 13 crew, have the responsibility for the safety, comfort and well being of 400 passengers in the cabin, and my crew and I are the front line face of BA.
I'm "expected" to report for my trips at least 1 hour prior to a flight (for which I get no payment), in order to print out all the required paperwork, liaise with the Executive Club, customer services, etc. etc.
It is the same on my return to base when I have to file all the necessary paperwork and follow up on any issues from the trip, of which I can assure you there are ALWAYS many!
More often than not I leave the Crew Report Centre at T5 several hours after everyone else on the crew has gone home; again unpaid. I have not even mentioned the increasing number of medical, safety and security issues we have to deal with.
A major draw on my time on board is spent dealing with the in flight entertainment system or 'AVOD' - well do not get me started on that, as I have to be able to fix this system when it breaks down, along with dealing with all the product shortfalls on board which have to be sorted there and then.
This and nights out of bed, not able to sleep,jetlag & missing loved ones' birthdays, parties and family get-togethers - not much of a social life.
You seem to think we have the life of luxury, staying in 5 star hotels, having room parties and an easy life of it. I assure you most of us are too shattered by the time we get there to enjoy anything.
I wish you could come fly with me for a 6 day Back to Back (across the pond 4 times in 6 days); let's see what an easy life you think we have then??
Could you do a 6-mile walk around a hill 5000' above sea-level 4 times in 6 days? Because that's what we do. On some of our flights they are removing 2 crew members.
For those of you who are happy to wait for your service on board, then fine, but please don't then complain & compare us with the likes of Cathay and Singapore airlines who have 18 crew.
Also it is hardly a fair to compare us with airlines like Easyjet/Ryanair who offer a completely different product/fare structure.
Do not think this decision was taken lightly I assure you, we know only too well and understand what it is like to miss out on family events, especially at xmas, as most of our family members who would have had the chance to be with us on our trips - reality is that most of them would have been left behind anyway, as is always the risk.
This year our families will be very upset & suffering too, and missing their mummies & daddies over xmas. It will be complete chaos & uncertainty for us too. Do any of you who have written spiteful comments hoping our families will suffer, think we have not taken that into consideration???
Do you think we would do this to you and them, unless we were not desperate to make the company get back to the negotiating table? This is not about a pay rise, I assure you this is about bullying tactics from what used to be a well respected employer, who we were proud to work for.
We are scared, if we accept these impositions I assure you they will be back for more, there is no doubt in my mind.
You may not have realised but over the past 9 months of negotiation with the company our unions have offered them savings in the region of between 56-60 million!! THIS WAS REJECTED!!
I ask you, what CEO of a company, in such dire financial circumstances refuses an offer of 60 million savings?? They have always had a different agenda, and the imposition made on the 16th Nov. is just the beginning.
We could have made these changes together but NO, they did not want that. You accuse us of being selfish, costing the company money, with a possible outcome of BA going down the tubes...what about the huge price fixing fines we have had to suffer & pay over the past few years, due to mismanagement.
This has also cost us millions. And the managers responsible walk away. We have been told for years by our managers, that it is the quality of our cabin crew which keep our customers returning time and time again (survey results).
All of a sudden that does not matter anymore. Mr. Walsh states these new impositions have not affected our customers, well, as front line staff I beg to differ.
Since the 16th Nov., myself and my fellow senior colleagues spend a lot of our time on the aircraft apologising to our customers for numerous reasons but now for the length of the club service.
This is meant to be a premium brand we offer and our customers pay for exactly that…he is wrong to say it is working...IT IS NOT!!
For all you premium customers out there, who want value for money and a good premium product, do not shoot us down in flames for trying to get that for you, otherwise please do not waste my time on board by asking to see me immediately and then spend the next half hour telling me how unhappy you are with both the service and the product.
This is what we are fighting for... Please think about what I have written, it comes from the heart, I assure you. I am furious with BA for putting us all in this position.
If i lose my job with BA tomorrow I will be sad, very sad, but I will not go down without a fight...this situation is wrong, and as hard as it is, I can only ask for your patience and understanding, and I am sincerely hoping it is resolved asap.
* No vitriol or abuse please.

[Human Factor]

While you're on FE, how are BA to reverse the imposition when the crew they need to do so have left the business?

[ladyxxxx]

fume event: I can't tell you how much that saddens me and 92% of an 80% turnout still said yes even though they knew it would be over Christmas and for 12 days - I believed from what I have heard from CC staff that they didn't know - just covering their backs maybe?

All I know is I am so upset for all those 000's of people who will be affected by this strike - its so sad. And the saddest thing of all is that this is the last time there will be an option to strike because this is now the beginning of the end of a company with such a proud heritage on its knees.

[spin_doctor]

I was told by a union official around two weeks ago that the strike would be for 12 days.

Just because it was not on the ballot paper, does not mean it was not common knowledge.

Funny how none of your colleagues seemed to know anything, and also odd that you only admit to this after it has been released to the public.

[Human Factor]

Watersidewonker, same question to you:

How are BA to reverse the imposition when the crew they need to do so have left the business?

[windytoo]

FE-- I always wondered who you were and how you could possibly be so unable to discuss anything in an adult manner. There are really only two people who I can think of who have consistently shown a similar mentality, Mr. Bin Laden and Mr. Tony Blair. Please help me to narrow it down. Do you live in a cave?

[ladyxxxx]

To Air Steward:

Firstly I would never abuse anyone on-line or off-line - however, whatever yours and other CC is the reality is this has already happened and you will not get that extra crew member back.

I am not CC but have travelled many many times on BA as a spouse and have had varying service from flight to flight depending on who the crew is. Some are absolutely charming and cannot do enough for you - others are rude and quite honestly seem that doing there job is beneath them. How can you say 1 person less is going to make such a difference - take 1 out of economy then and put into club. If club is empty put into economy - surely thats the way you work isn't it. If other airlines and Im not talking about the Ryanairs or Easyjets but respected carriers can work with these numbers why can't BA.
The reality is unless change is accepted then you will not have a job nor will the other 000 of staff worldwide as there won't be an airline.
You may have considered this thorougly but the reality is that you are meant to be doing your job over the busiest time of the year and you are refusing - in my world thats a sacking offence.
You cannot in any way understand what you are putting the public through - the ones that have booked cruises, hotels, car hire, honeymoons etc etc etc and will lose all their money - money they have saved for months if not years for. How can you possibly understand and I find it crass of you to say you do.

Get on the phone at customer services and speak to some passengers you are letting down at this most important time of the year.

Everybody has a right to speak but ultimately this is about saving the company not yourselves. Accept the envitable (whether we like it or not) because striking is not going to change anything other than put the company of the road to no recovery. Thousands of other staff have accepted changes why can't you. T5 Will be working with a 1/3rd less staff - you are not the only ones you are going to have to work a bit harder.
This is the reality of the world we live in - everyone in every industry has to put in a bit more effort - the good old days are long gone

[HiFlyer14]

FE - Allow me, from one No Voting CC member to another, staunch left BASSA supporter offer you some friendly, caring, colleague-type advice.

They don't like us. In fact they hate us. (Understatement). We have ruined millions of people's Christmas plans to be with their loved ones at Christmas. Not only that, while many people across the UK, across the continent, and across the globe are taking redundancies, low-paid jobs etc, we have done this in the Name of One Crew member off an aircraft.

It ain't going down too well, Fume. Mr Salmon and other loyal, loyal BA customers are taking their business (and our salaries) away as we type. Literally.

Go get yourself some humility Mate. If not for your own sake, then mine as I INTEND TO COME TO WORK EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR THE NEXT FEW WEEKS IF I HAVE TO to try and retrieve a modicum of the business back from Mr Salmon and others that we so desperately need.

Failing that, then just shut-up. I for one have had about as much as I can take from the likes of you and your -up self-centred, Union.

[Lamyna Flo]

How can you say 1 person less is going to make such a difference - take 1 out of economy then and put into club. If club is empty put into economy - surely thats the way you work isn't it.

No, it's not. It's not as simple as that. Perhaps "airsteward" would like to come on here and tell you how to restructure your working environment?

[Lauderdale]

basti0n

What is breathtaking(ly frustrating) are comments like these:

£56,325 PA, divide that by a max of 900 hours = £62.58 PH.

Not to forget the above is very lite on tax, HMRC are working on that though.

My partner is cc who voted NO to the strike and has volunteerd to help wherever she can (main crew operating out of LGW) and clears (!) just over (£1,200 pcm) and can be away from home well over 300hrs per month with no shift pay etc etc. Oh, now thats 1200/300 = £4 (after taxes). Same stupid argument

However all this salary info paints an irrelevant and incorrect picture. If you feel they are overpaid: 1) none of your business as it is a private company or 2) apply for the job yourself 3) start a new thread as it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

[wiggy]

Frankly the " I only voted for a 2 day strike at anytime other than Christmas" defence is tosh. The ballot paper was quiet clear, there were no caveats.

Maybe from now on Union members, whatever their union, will pay more attention to what is going on in their union and the political affiliations and political history of their senior Reps.

[Papillon]

Lauderdale, I fully appreciate the frustration at the lack of understanding, but I would equally point out that many in cabin crew or flight deck are more than content to pontificate on how the airline should be run, with no commercial understanding of costs or revenues. I very rarely post here because I am no expert on flight deck or indeed crewing, but I do very often find laughably ignorant comments on the realities of trying to make an airline generate money. It does cut both ways - unless you want me to test you on your in-depth knowledge of DOCs, scheduling, RoS, slot acquisition and retention, CoC..... etc etc.

Don't mean to dismiss you at all, you have an opinion as does everyone else, but aviation does not begin and end at the gate. Having said that, I repeat that I more often read than comment, so please take it in the spirit it's meant.

[Lauderdale]

other airlines manage why should'nt you

Point is: the turnover over levels at most carriers (including VS, EZY etc) are higher than Zsa Zsa Gabors husbands (as we all know - right???) due to the conditions being S**T!

Although we DISAGREE with the strike - think BASSA are the nearest thing to the gutter, we also believe that there are people who like to make a CAREER out of flying like people can with other carriers like KLM, AF etc etc

[finncapt]

AL

So the judge wouldn't go into Captain's discretion or maybe her union said it wasn't covered by the disruption agreement.

[TOM100]

High Court

Just saw on Sky, that Bruce Carr Qc (BA) saying BASSA knowingly, and encouraged, crew who were leaving the business to vote YES to IA. His evidence a posting on the Bassa (or crew) forum from Ms Malone (a few days before the ballot began) which kind of blows the defence of any error made in "good faith" ! Shows how these forums can be used.....BA clearly watching.....

Also, how can Woodley and Simpson say we want to negotiate and we only ever wanted a negotiated settlement to this dispurte. IIRC tho my memory isn't what is used to be wasn't it BASSA on a show of hands at Sandown a few months ago (yes months) who said they would not negotiate any further on the issue with BA ?? Hypocrisy of it all.....yet this is all of BA's making for refusing to negotiate !

edit - typo