British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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At the meeting, we drew to the union’s attention a possible flaw in their ballot process.
Sounds to me like BA are saying: "Bring it on, we have all the bases covered".
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It appears WinstonSmith that you live in a different world to everyone else, a dictatorship or Orwellian dream, that bears no resemblance to reality.
Living in a democracy, people can still legally protest against imposition that has been elaborately engineered and contrived by a disengenuous management.
Living in a democracy, people can still legally protest against imposition that has been elaborately engineered and contrived by a disengenuous management.
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you live in a {snip} Orwellian dream, that bears no resemblance to reality
that has been elaborately engineered and contrived by a disengenuous management.
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"At the meeting .... ballot process".
A cynic, such as me, would suggest that is a way of BA and Unite trying to cobble together a face saving solution to help Unite out of the position BASSA have put them in.
FE
You've got to be Leo H C from the Ryanair postings - it's the sort of thing he says.
A cynic, such as me, would suggest that is a way of BA and Unite trying to cobble together a face saving solution to help Unite out of the position BASSA have put them in.
FE
You've got to be Leo H C from the Ryanair postings - it's the sort of thing he says.
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I know that the majority of CSD's I work with have always played a role in service. However, sometimes they don't, for a number of reasons. Historically, working with 14 on a -400 has worked perfectly well in those cases.
The company has decided (and it's their train set) that it is worth having the odd flight where the IFE gets left for a while (a 50 seat Club service finished after 1.45 on my flight yesterday...) to not have to pay that salary cost. If they are wrong, and business suffers to the degree that it is worth selling £3/4million of tickets to fund it, it will change back.
I hope they do change certain things - putting the most junior member on Club kitchen seems daft, and who goes when on the breaks needs looking at, but as someone said earlier, its just your job to provide the service the company wants. I don't agree with some of the ways BA wants me to operate my flights, but it's their aircraft and their AOC so I do it to the best of my ability their way because thats what they pay me for.
The company has decided (and it's their train set) that it is worth having the odd flight where the IFE gets left for a while (a 50 seat Club service finished after 1.45 on my flight yesterday...) to not have to pay that salary cost. If they are wrong, and business suffers to the degree that it is worth selling £3/4million of tickets to fund it, it will change back.
I hope they do change certain things - putting the most junior member on Club kitchen seems daft, and who goes when on the breaks needs looking at, but as someone said earlier, its just your job to provide the service the company wants. I don't agree with some of the ways BA wants me to operate my flights, but it's their aircraft and their AOC so I do it to the best of my ability their way because thats what they pay me for.
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people can still legally protest against imposition that has been elaborately engineered
It's been quite simply engineered with BASSA's help.
But now Wicked Willie is hinting that BASSA might be legally obliged to pay BA damages if they strike. Let's hope BASSA's lawyer's haven't cocked up, that would be a tad embarrassing, wouldn't it?
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One particular CSD must hate coming into work these days and actually do a bit of work on the aircraft.
Before he would do boarding reluctantly - do a bit of complaining on the crew - place his backside in the CSD's office as soon as the signs came off and eat and drink whilst watching movies or listening to music - sigh and mutter and indirectly blaming you for having to hand out the hot dishes during the meal service in Club - do the hourly walk with disgust and complain on the crew for not wearing their name badge on the cardigan - get back to the CSD's office and give you the evil eye for daring to sort out your DF in his office.
I remember on flight in particular from MEX when one crew went sick downroute - he simply would not give us a hand with the 1st service in WT because he was dealing with a disappointed passenger in First which was far more important than doing a trolley - it turned out he was chatting away with a friend of his who was on the flight. He did give us a hand with the 2nd service - he told the Purser to take a trolley and himself would run the galley because it was more "appropiate" - which he did but it left him in a very lousy mood - he went back to his office as soon as the last tray had been given out and had his own meal behind closed curtains. Number 2 on that trip was also told to do the paperwork and close the DF trolleys somewhere else - BUT - not in the CSD's office.
This CSD must be having a joy nowadays.
Before he would do boarding reluctantly - do a bit of complaining on the crew - place his backside in the CSD's office as soon as the signs came off and eat and drink whilst watching movies or listening to music - sigh and mutter and indirectly blaming you for having to hand out the hot dishes during the meal service in Club - do the hourly walk with disgust and complain on the crew for not wearing their name badge on the cardigan - get back to the CSD's office and give you the evil eye for daring to sort out your DF in his office.
I remember on flight in particular from MEX when one crew went sick downroute - he simply would not give us a hand with the 1st service in WT because he was dealing with a disappointed passenger in First which was far more important than doing a trolley - it turned out he was chatting away with a friend of his who was on the flight. He did give us a hand with the 2nd service - he told the Purser to take a trolley and himself would run the galley because it was more "appropiate" - which he did but it left him in a very lousy mood - he went back to his office as soon as the last tray had been given out and had his own meal behind closed curtains. Number 2 on that trip was also told to do the paperwork and close the DF trolleys somewhere else - BUT - not in the CSD's office.
This CSD must be having a joy nowadays.
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I hope they do change certain things - putting the most junior member on Club kitchen seems daft, and who goes when on the breaks needs looking at
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If they have not complied with the requirements of the law and make a call for strike action based on a flawed ballot, Unite would be liable for our damages and their members would not be protected.
So have BASSA pointed out to the membership exactly what flaw BA were claiming? No. Have BASSA given any assurances that there is no flaw? No.
Be very, very careful out there. I truly fear for my fellow colleagues who are being blindly led by this Union. We have all, cabin crew, pilots, and even customers pointed out numerous mistakes that this Union have made. They are very likely to have made others, and you are literally putting your life in their hands if you strike.
And Fume, living in a democracy people can vote no if they disapprove of the Union's position, and come into work even if the Union calls a strike.
So Top Bunk, having read your WW quote I would like to add a 5th option:
5. BASSA strike and BA let them, and then sack the strikers due to an illegality in the ballot.
Best of luck Strikers. You are so gonna need it.
The above represents my own personal viewpoint, and not that of BA.
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At the meeting, we drew to the union’s attention a possible flaw in their ballot process. There are legal obligations that Unite must comply with running a strike ballot. If they have not complied with the requirements of the law and make a call for strike action based on a flawed ballot, Unite would be liable for our damages and their members would not be protected.
We hope Unite will consider its actions carefully and not put our customers’ travel plans and our cabin crew at risk.
We hope Unite will consider its actions carefully and not put our customers’ travel plans and our cabin crew at risk.
Is this because Unite is an association (I understand all assets are held in a trustee company) and therefore not a legal person and therefore cannot be sued or instigate legal action (I assume why Unite was not on the court papers for the legal action)?
Now that is a shot across the bows.
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The way I read it is that if they strike, and are therefore in breach of their contract, the members would not be protected, ie. contracts terminated.
But, heh, the BASSA faithful are soooooo confident that that can't happen.....
I do sincerely worry for the majority of my colleagues, many of whom, don't know what to think and are bullied by this Union into believing that because they are members, they have to conform. You only have to read some of the posts on here accusing anyone not conforming of ignorance, beligerence, etc. to realise how much pressure is exerted out there. A very good crew friend of mine, who is normally as tough as old boots, said they won't cross a picket line due to the reprisals so they will go sick! It's people like that that need protecting. The BASSA faithful can rot for all I care.
I am BA Cabin Crew. The above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
But, heh, the BASSA faithful are soooooo confident that that can't happen.....
I do sincerely worry for the majority of my colleagues, many of whom, don't know what to think and are bullied by this Union into believing that because they are members, they have to conform. You only have to read some of the posts on here accusing anyone not conforming of ignorance, beligerence, etc. to realise how much pressure is exerted out there. A very good crew friend of mine, who is normally as tough as old boots, said they won't cross a picket line due to the reprisals so they will go sick! It's people like that that need protecting. The BASSA faithful can rot for all I care.
I am BA Cabin Crew. The above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
Interestingly, no comments yet from the hardliners about Topbunk's post (#4610) with the quote from Willie Walsh about yesterdays meet with Unite. I would have expected CFC, Fume Event and other like-minded posters to come barrelling in with a(nother) slating of the CEO, and how it is all lies! Not a bite! Most unusual, given that the quote is pretty fundamental to this entire ballot. biteme, on the other hand, may have retched when he/she saw it, which is why biteme has exited stage left?
Doesn't give BASSA and/or Unite much time to ensure their feet aren't made of clay, and on the weekend too! I wonder if the lawyers charge more on a weekend ......
Doesn't give BASSA and/or Unite much time to ensure their feet aren't made of clay, and on the weekend too! I wonder if the lawyers charge more on a weekend ......
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I will put money on the fact that the flaw is the ballot being sent to 1000 VR crew who have now left the company.
When asked about this, one rep replied "Can't you see what we're trying to do for you?" Err Lose my job? Cos that's about the only thing I can see the Union doing right now.
I am BA cabin crew. The above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
When asked about this, one rep replied "Can't you see what we're trying to do for you?" Err Lose my job? Cos that's about the only thing I can see the Union doing right now.
I am BA cabin crew. The above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
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LD
"Is this....legal action)?"
A most interesting point - I hadn't realised Unite was an association.
Someone will have to pay the costs and, if Unite have protected their funds, these may well fall to BASSA and when they run out of money who next?
I asked several pages back why BASSA did not obtain some indemnity against costs for its members or state categorically that the individual was not responsible.
Thank goodness we don't get the X factor in Finland - just Midsomer Murders tonight and it's Morse tomorrow afternoon. Coronation Street is up to about 1965 but I don't watch that (retired nigel).
"Is this....legal action)?"
A most interesting point - I hadn't realised Unite was an association.
Someone will have to pay the costs and, if Unite have protected their funds, these may well fall to BASSA and when they run out of money who next?
I asked several pages back why BASSA did not obtain some indemnity against costs for its members or state categorically that the individual was not responsible.
Thank goodness we don't get the X factor in Finland - just Midsomer Murders tonight and it's Morse tomorrow afternoon. Coronation Street is up to about 1965 but I don't watch that (retired nigel).
Last edited by finncapt; 12th Dec 2009 at 19:13. Reason: added
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HiFlyer14
A good friend of mine - very pro-BASSA - said that all those who have left on VR have contacted UNITE to let them know about them receiving a ballot and not being eligible to vote.
Amusing, is it not?
I will put money on the fact that the flaw is the ballot being sent to 1000 VR crew who have now left the company.
Amusing, is it not?
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TwoRoles asks:
I am not a regular in J-class, but have sampled it twice recently, once LHR-TLV on a 767 before imposition and once LHR-SIN on a fairly full High-J 747. I assume that on that occasion I was only in J because WT+ was oversubscribed.
On both occasions the speed and level of service was the same to my inexperienced eye.
Have you flown in Club on a full Hi-J 747 aircraft or a 3 class 777 and if so how did your experience differ from before 16th November?
On both occasions the speed and level of service was the same to my inexperienced eye.
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A good friend of mine - very pro-BASSA - said that all those who have left on VR have contacted UNITE to let them know about them receiving a ballot and not being eligible to vote.
No matter, it would still render the vote invalid as there is no way of verifying whether or not they did actually vote.The fact that BASSA are handling this in such an amateurish and cackhanded fashion says it all really...If the stakes weren't so high it would be very amusing...but I am genuinely fearful for people's jobs now.
Slidebustle, given this latest development you may want to reconsider as you may actually benefit from NOT being a member of the union now. Being a member of the Union looks like a very unsafe place to be right now.
I am BA cabin crew. The above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
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So it looks like BASSA have mismanaged the ballot - at least as far as BA believe. So I guess that injunction preventing the strike will be arriving shortly. BASSA look like chumps. How utterly utterly utterly predictable.