British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Count,
Alas, I think that the damage is already done. This is the last straw in a steady stream of events that have turned customers away, Gate Gourmet, Terminal 4 Baggage, Terminal 5 startup and now this. Alongside a pensions black hole, ex-staff who still have generous travel rights and now, mass defection of a significant amount of revenue earning customers at one of the busiest times of the year. Most pax will not wait to see what happens, they will already be making alternative arrangements. The deal is done, BA are history...sadly!
Alas, I think that the damage is already done. This is the last straw in a steady stream of events that have turned customers away, Gate Gourmet, Terminal 4 Baggage, Terminal 5 startup and now this. Alongside a pensions black hole, ex-staff who still have generous travel rights and now, mass defection of a significant amount of revenue earning customers at one of the busiest times of the year. Most pax will not wait to see what happens, they will already be making alternative arrangements. The deal is done, BA are history...sadly!
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What is the chance, or risk if you prefer, of WW closing down the airline entirely during the industrial action?
HKG could as well be operated or passengers could be re-booked onto either Cathay Pacific or Qantas. My bet is that some of the long-haul destinations as HKG, JNB, LAX, NRT, SFO and SIN will be run as much as possible. None of the ICC (International Cabin Crew) will be going on a strike but obviously won't be able to operate if there are no flights departing.
HKG could as well be operated or passengers could be re-booked onto either Cathay Pacific or Qantas. My bet is that some of the long-haul destinations as HKG, JNB, LAX, NRT, SFO and SIN will be run as much as possible. None of the ICC (International Cabin Crew) will be going on a strike but obviously won't be able to operate if there are no flights departing.
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BA CC, you might win the battle, but you will loose the war!
Believing BA can not be another Swiss Air is naive. For those supporting a 12 day christmas strike - what goes around comes around, you will get everything you deserve looking for future employment.
The recession is not over in the UK or in the world, recently SAS announced they had to cut back on 4000 jobs over 3 countries operations. Good riddance to striking BA CC crew!
Believing BA can not be another Swiss Air is naive. For those supporting a 12 day christmas strike - what goes around comes around, you will get everything you deserve looking for future employment.
The recession is not over in the UK or in the world, recently SAS announced they had to cut back on 4000 jobs over 3 countries operations. Good riddance to striking BA CC crew!
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Tiramasu and others,
As SLF I am sure that I and others appreciate your efforts to keep things going over the festive season. We have no desire for you to disrupt your holidays on our behalf and hope that this dispute can be resolved or BA re-schedule flights to minimise cancellations. Waterside w*nker and friends demonstrate an attitude that lives back in the 70's and is doomed to failure, more so in this 21st century. You cannot fight modern armour with bows and arrows.
Whilst I have no liking for WW and his managerial style we all have our bosses to work for, and most display similar styles. What is clear is that staff have to tread a thin line beween supporting the 'company' and achieving an acceptable living standard.
Negotiation is the only way forward.
As SLF I am sure that I and others appreciate your efforts to keep things going over the festive season. We have no desire for you to disrupt your holidays on our behalf and hope that this dispute can be resolved or BA re-schedule flights to minimise cancellations. Waterside w*nker and friends demonstrate an attitude that lives back in the 70's and is doomed to failure, more so in this 21st century. You cannot fight modern armour with bows and arrows.
Whilst I have no liking for WW and his managerial style we all have our bosses to work for, and most display similar styles. What is clear is that staff have to tread a thin line beween supporting the 'company' and achieving an acceptable living standard.
Negotiation is the only way forward.
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My emotions the last 3 days...
- Threat of a strike - don't like it, don't agree, but sh1t happens...
- Yes vote - don't like it, don't agree, but sh1t happens...
- 92% yes vote - start to seriously doubt if BA CC realize what is at stake
- Announcement of the '12 days of x-mass' - feel insulted by BA CC and they lose what little understanding I had for them
- Read the leaked BASSA memo - I am now seriously angry and hope that BA crushes the strike even if it affects my x-mass
- See the videos and the response of the cc - I now hope that BA fires the lot of them and have written WW to voice my support as Gold Card Holder for his position.
6 months ago I would have never thought I would ever support WW...
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tiaw
I am genuinely sorry to hear you will not be flying BA again. All I can say is that the average or surly BA cabin crew to whom you have been exposed are likely to be amongst the most militant, and will only retain their jobs by deceit. That is, they will attempt to go sick, rather than do as they said they would, and strike! (Non of those here will ACTUALLY strike. That is absolutely guaranteed!) A large proportion of the CC that remain will be those that GENUINELY have a passion for you, our customer. Many will have risked a great deal to reinstate to our customers their Xmas that would have otherwise been stolen by BASSA!
WW is trying to cut out a cancer within, All such surgery comes with some pain, and some risk. Yours is not underestimated. But it should hopefully transform the health of this particular body. Those inside, that do not wish to enjoy the new health, will simply be left behind!
As far as your gf leaving HKG on 25th I would say this. It would be much better if she could change her flight to leave on Xmas eve. The reason I say this is that HKG AFAIK is a 5 day trip for CC. That means there is a higher likelihood that CC will be found to operate the outbound flight on the 21st, the day before the strike. I would imagine that HKG will indeed be a priority flight on the first evening of the strike (22nd) but the earlier day would be better. I know that the HKG based CC will be working as normal, or even overcrewing to return aircraft to Heathrow.
Moving on, I would like to say how much I admire tiramisu and very many others who have declared their intention to work. This must be a very difficult decision.
Without giving too much away, you will very definitely not be alone. You may even be surprised to find members of 'other departments' assisting you in the cabin! (Not to mention other previously employed CC!)
You will indeed 'be many', and many will be looking out for your welfare.
As far as tomorrow's court case is concerned. I know for a fact that a sizeable number of CC who have voted 'yes' are desperately hoping BA win! I suspect a number of officials at Unite/Bassa/Grinch are also hoping to be let off the hook by such a result!
FWIW, I actually think BA expect to lose. However WW must be seen to be doing everything in his power to protect the customers. (Short of risking the long term viability of BA by caving in to the 1970s 'throwbacks'!) Once he has demonstrated this, he then has carte blanche to do absolutely whatever is necessary to keep as much of this airline flying as is humanly possible! Any BASSA cronies who come back here tomorrow whooping and cheering (yes we've ALL now seen the video of those disgusting scenes!) Should pause for thought. Because a result in favor of BASSA will seal the fate of those withdrawing their labour (not that I expect there to be many - if any!)
Finally: Is it really true that all the BASSA reps have taken themselves off flying duties to 'man the office' on strike days?? Wouldn't want them exposing themselves to the risk of dismissal now would we? Best leave those consequences to the cannon fodder!
Sleep well.
I am genuinely sorry to hear you will not be flying BA again. All I can say is that the average or surly BA cabin crew to whom you have been exposed are likely to be amongst the most militant, and will only retain their jobs by deceit. That is, they will attempt to go sick, rather than do as they said they would, and strike! (Non of those here will ACTUALLY strike. That is absolutely guaranteed!) A large proportion of the CC that remain will be those that GENUINELY have a passion for you, our customer. Many will have risked a great deal to reinstate to our customers their Xmas that would have otherwise been stolen by BASSA!
WW is trying to cut out a cancer within, All such surgery comes with some pain, and some risk. Yours is not underestimated. But it should hopefully transform the health of this particular body. Those inside, that do not wish to enjoy the new health, will simply be left behind!
As far as your gf leaving HKG on 25th I would say this. It would be much better if she could change her flight to leave on Xmas eve. The reason I say this is that HKG AFAIK is a 5 day trip for CC. That means there is a higher likelihood that CC will be found to operate the outbound flight on the 21st, the day before the strike. I would imagine that HKG will indeed be a priority flight on the first evening of the strike (22nd) but the earlier day would be better. I know that the HKG based CC will be working as normal, or even overcrewing to return aircraft to Heathrow.
Moving on, I would like to say how much I admire tiramisu and very many others who have declared their intention to work. This must be a very difficult decision.
Without giving too much away, you will very definitely not be alone. You may even be surprised to find members of 'other departments' assisting you in the cabin! (Not to mention other previously employed CC!)
You will indeed 'be many', and many will be looking out for your welfare.
As far as tomorrow's court case is concerned. I know for a fact that a sizeable number of CC who have voted 'yes' are desperately hoping BA win! I suspect a number of officials at Unite/Bassa/Grinch are also hoping to be let off the hook by such a result!
FWIW, I actually think BA expect to lose. However WW must be seen to be doing everything in his power to protect the customers. (Short of risking the long term viability of BA by caving in to the 1970s 'throwbacks'!) Once he has demonstrated this, he then has carte blanche to do absolutely whatever is necessary to keep as much of this airline flying as is humanly possible! Any BASSA cronies who come back here tomorrow whooping and cheering (yes we've ALL now seen the video of those disgusting scenes!) Should pause for thought. Because a result in favor of BASSA will seal the fate of those withdrawing their labour (not that I expect there to be many - if any!)
Finally: Is it really true that all the BASSA reps have taken themselves off flying duties to 'man the office' on strike days?? Wouldn't want them exposing themselves to the risk of dismissal now would we? Best leave those consequences to the cannon fodder!
Sleep well.
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Really? OK it is a mixture of pilots, support staff and cabin crew all which added to the problems.
Sep 1999 - Strike (School holidays if i remember)
Feb 2000 - Strike cost Ansett $2.5 million
Mar 2000 - Engineering maintenance strike
Sep 2001 - Strike
Sep 1999 - Strike (School holidays if i remember)
Feb 2000 - Strike cost Ansett $2.5 million
Mar 2000 - Engineering maintenance strike
Sep 2001 - Strike
Sep 1999 - Strike - was involving Ansett NEW ZEALAND pilots, an airline completely seperate from Ansett AUSTRALIA, in fact if my memory serves me correctly, they didn't even have the AN flight code.
Feb 2000 - Involved Reservations/Check-In staff during a stop work period of several hours.
Mar 2000 - You were correct on this occassion, Engineering and Maintenance staff did have a 24 hour strike.
Sep 2001 - Not sure who striked then as the airline only operated for 2 weeks in that said month. Perhaps it was a bird strike that you're referring to?
In any case, I have failed to see any connection between these industrial issues and cabin crew, who you eluded to as helping cause the company to collapse.
May you have a very merry christmas.
Now back to the topic at hand.
RR.
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Originally Posted by Irish_Avro_Driver
Looking to create Facebook hate group of BA CC and Union - if anyone already has post the link here please.
SUPPORT BA CABIN CREW!!!! | Facebook
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Well done to all those who have Pm'd me asking how to resign from the Union - it's easy - just phone pay services (BA internal) and cancel your subscription if you're a BASSA member, or if you're an Amicus member simply cancel your direct debit with your bank.
If you want to you can also send a letter - I published mine earlier, and here it is again - perhaps if we all send it we will "send a message to Mr McCluskey and cronies."
Bye, Bye BASSA. We will not allow you to ruin our lives, the lives of thousands of BA employees, and the Christmases of many, many thousands of customers.
If you want to you can also send a letter - I published mine earlier, and here it is again - perhaps if we all send it we will "send a message to Mr McCluskey and cronies."
Mr Len McCluskey
Unite
35 King Street
Covent Garden
London
WC2E 8JG
Dear Mr McCluskey,
Please accept my resignation from the union Unite. I am resigning due to the deplorable actions and stance that this Union has taken over the past 9 months.
Despite there being the biggest world recession on since World War II, the union have dismissed the need to make savings for BA. BA have been reasonable in every manner. They have not made compulsory redundancies, they have not imposed a pay cut, they have not forcibly reduced our working hours. But still Unite refuses to co-operate and meet them in the middle.
The ballot paper was completely unnecessary. You had the opportunity to negotiate a decent monthly payment which would have secured our position against New Fleet. You didn’t do that. You had the opportunity to ask all the members what they wanted, but you didn’t do that either.
Now, despicably you are putting us to immense public shame. You claim that we are the best cabin crew in the world. We are not. Try Singapore, Cathay, Emirates to name but a few. You claim that you are concerned about the passenger service. Well, they’re not passengers, they’re customers. And just how concerned are you when families will be apart this Christmas due to your selfish actions.
I love my job, I love working for BA but I abhor the Union and the negative, militant, selfish attitude that it inflicts on our community.
I hope that you feel proud of the shame that you have brought on our once great community, along with the financial damage that you are now causing to our once great airline.
Unions are supposed to save jobs; what will you say to the 50,000 BA employees worldwide when you and your selfish actions are the cause of this company going bankrupt?
Yours sincerely,
Unite
35 King Street
Covent Garden
London
WC2E 8JG
Dear Mr McCluskey,
Please accept my resignation from the union Unite. I am resigning due to the deplorable actions and stance that this Union has taken over the past 9 months.
Despite there being the biggest world recession on since World War II, the union have dismissed the need to make savings for BA. BA have been reasonable in every manner. They have not made compulsory redundancies, they have not imposed a pay cut, they have not forcibly reduced our working hours. But still Unite refuses to co-operate and meet them in the middle.
The ballot paper was completely unnecessary. You had the opportunity to negotiate a decent monthly payment which would have secured our position against New Fleet. You didn’t do that. You had the opportunity to ask all the members what they wanted, but you didn’t do that either.
Now, despicably you are putting us to immense public shame. You claim that we are the best cabin crew in the world. We are not. Try Singapore, Cathay, Emirates to name but a few. You claim that you are concerned about the passenger service. Well, they’re not passengers, they’re customers. And just how concerned are you when families will be apart this Christmas due to your selfish actions.
I love my job, I love working for BA but I abhor the Union and the negative, militant, selfish attitude that it inflicts on our community.
I hope that you feel proud of the shame that you have brought on our once great community, along with the financial damage that you are now causing to our once great airline.
Unions are supposed to save jobs; what will you say to the 50,000 BA employees worldwide when you and your selfish actions are the cause of this company going bankrupt?
Yours sincerely,
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Just seen the clip of the strike ballot being announced at the Unite meeting on the 10 o'clock news.
The result that called for the strike was cheered to the rafters by the cabin crew in the room.
As one of your passengers I now know that the cabin crew are virtually united in being prepared to stuff a bankrupt company and it's customers.
I'm sorry for the small minority who have some appreciation of the real world and know just how well they are treated compared with the rest of the industry...but it's a little late now to claim that no one really wants to strike.
This must be a godsend to Virgin with their problems.
The result that called for the strike was cheered to the rafters by the cabin crew in the room.
As one of your passengers I now know that the cabin crew are virtually united in being prepared to stuff a bankrupt company and it's customers.
I'm sorry for the small minority who have some appreciation of the real world and know just how well they are treated compared with the rest of the industry...but it's a little late now to claim that no one really wants to strike.
This must be a godsend to Virgin with their problems.
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Henky, what is your occupation please?
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This is getting nasty!
There are some pretty heated and ill-considered expressions of views and emotions developing on this site. This major - and I do mean major - episode in the company's history is rapidly heading for a very messy and unhappy ending. As a business management consultant who listens and listens and listens I can see both sides but in my capacity as an advisor I have to say that those who are about to strike will most certainly put their own jobs and those of their colleagues in serious jeopardy.
You must know the parlous state of BA's finances and you must also know that unless dramatic and painful steps are taken to stop the "blood letting" the airline will go under. Part of that cost cutting excercise involves reductions in staff and reductions in CC costs. What has been offered, in my view, is insufficient in the present climate to save your company BUT it might just. If you wish to continue to be employed accept the offer - with bad grace if you must - but at least you have the prospect, if not the certainty, of a job. Those new CC staff who join the company on inferior terms will join knowing exactly what to expect and will either accept the T & C and join or reject and seek employment elsewhere. Don't fight battles for them.
I would, as you can imagine, suggest that all CC inform their employer by email that they will be turning up for work on the 22nd and thereafter. It is a decison that however uncomfortabable at the moment will prove to have been the wisest. If you know of others who intend to strike then I suggest you ask them to consider again very carefully whether they fully understand the consequences of their actions.
Expecting the union to defeat any injuction sought by BA will be a very hollow victory. It is up to you now. You have just 6 days to make your mind up. I wish you all the best. PS I would add that I have no connection whatsoever with the company at this time.
You must know the parlous state of BA's finances and you must also know that unless dramatic and painful steps are taken to stop the "blood letting" the airline will go under. Part of that cost cutting excercise involves reductions in staff and reductions in CC costs. What has been offered, in my view, is insufficient in the present climate to save your company BUT it might just. If you wish to continue to be employed accept the offer - with bad grace if you must - but at least you have the prospect, if not the certainty, of a job. Those new CC staff who join the company on inferior terms will join knowing exactly what to expect and will either accept the T & C and join or reject and seek employment elsewhere. Don't fight battles for them.
I would, as you can imagine, suggest that all CC inform their employer by email that they will be turning up for work on the 22nd and thereafter. It is a decison that however uncomfortabable at the moment will prove to have been the wisest. If you know of others who intend to strike then I suggest you ask them to consider again very carefully whether they fully understand the consequences of their actions.
Expecting the union to defeat any injuction sought by BA will be a very hollow victory. It is up to you now. You have just 6 days to make your mind up. I wish you all the best. PS I would add that I have no connection whatsoever with the company at this time.
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Hi Pinkaroo - welcome back! What's your occupation again? 
I have done everything I could, in my own humble way, to prevent this strike from happening, and will continue to do everything I can to support BA to operate as full an operation as possible over the coming weeks.
See you as I cross the picket line...
I am BA Cabin crew, and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
I have done everything I could, in my own humble way, to prevent this strike from happening, and will continue to do everything I can to support BA to operate as full an operation as possible over the coming weeks.
See you as I cross the picket line...
I am BA Cabin crew, and the above represents my own view and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 15th Dec 2009 at 23:27.
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I too have just seen the clip on tv of the ballot result being announced...have I just been transported back to the 70s or did that really just happen???
Shocking behaviour - no regard for the company, the customers (who pay our wages let's not forget) and colleagues.
The message really isn't sinking in is it -if Unite / CC do follow through with this action, it WILL accelerate BA's decline for sure. Customers know there are alternatives out there (who do just as good a job, if not better to be honest) - so why on earth would they want to risk their travel plans again?
Seriously - to those who remain steadfast to the strike cause - the dole queue beckons....you'll be crying then for the Terms and Conditions that you think are so terrible now!
Shocking behaviour - no regard for the company, the customers (who pay our wages let's not forget) and colleagues.
The message really isn't sinking in is it -if Unite / CC do follow through with this action, it WILL accelerate BA's decline for sure. Customers know there are alternatives out there (who do just as good a job, if not better to be honest) - so why on earth would they want to risk their travel plans again?
Seriously - to those who remain steadfast to the strike cause - the dole queue beckons....you'll be crying then for the Terms and Conditions that you think are so terrible now!