British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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YouTube - BASSA/UNITE - BA CABIN CREW STRIKE - THE TRUTH
Simple irrefutable facts......
Tiramisu - I believe your figures re:Short Haul pay for CSD's - What you need to address though is what the World Wide/Long Haul cabin crew are getting in supplementary pay. The link above shows that it must be more than £20k p.a. on top of their basic otherwise BASSA/UNITE would not have rejected BA's offer around a month ago! (Travel Supplement + Unchanged Meal Allowances)
Simple irrefutable facts......
Tiramisu - I believe your figures re:Short Haul pay for CSD's - What you need to address though is what the World Wide/Long Haul cabin crew are getting in supplementary pay. The link above shows that it must be more than £20k p.a. on top of their basic otherwise BASSA/UNITE would not have rejected BA's offer around a month ago! (Travel Supplement + Unchanged Meal Allowances)
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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...they will phone in sick rather than face the public or cross the picket line...
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In which case, they'd better actually be sick as it's likely BA will demand a doctor's note (the seven days "self-certification" is likely to be viewed quite dimly). Otherwise, it's getting into the territory of EG300 "Pattern Sickness" which is a disciplinary matter.
Sad but true.
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Ottergirl - can you honestly say, hand on heart, that you are justified in earning MORE than a junior FO???????? I don't doubt for one minute that you are a true professional and that your pax receive a top service etc etc, but for you, or ANY cabin crew to earn more than any flightcrew, is IMHO completely wrong and indefensible. If you would, consider the following scenario. The Captain pegs out just over the Alps on the way into Milano.Its very foggy and Low Vis Procedures are in force...........The aircraft maybe has a technical defect............Who has responsibility for getting the aircraft and all it's occupants safely on the ground???? You I guess since you earn more than the junior FO. Is my point easily understood?
I saw on a website yesterday, video footage of the ballot result being announced at the Sandown Park meeting. I have to say that the visible and audible reaction was both astounding and sickening.........It seemed to me as though the vast majority of those present were delighted at the prospect of (a) messing up so many people's Christmas arrangements(hardly any business travellers just the ordinary, travelling public....) and (b) possibly bankcrupting the company.
Hey guys and gals, some news for you...there are tens of thousands of other BA employees depending on BA's survival for their livlihoods, homes, pensions etc....IT ISN"T JUST ABOUT YOU!!!! Come out from your bubble world and have a dose of reality for gawd's sake. You ARE NOT THE ONLY WORKING GROUP BEING ASKED TO GIVE!!!!
I saw on a website yesterday, video footage of the ballot result being announced at the Sandown Park meeting. I have to say that the visible and audible reaction was both astounding and sickening.........It seemed to me as though the vast majority of those present were delighted at the prospect of (a) messing up so many people's Christmas arrangements(hardly any business travellers just the ordinary, travelling public....) and (b) possibly bankcrupting the company.
Hey guys and gals, some news for you...there are tens of thousands of other BA employees depending on BA's survival for their livlihoods, homes, pensions etc....IT ISN"T JUST ABOUT YOU!!!! Come out from your bubble world and have a dose of reality for gawd's sake. You ARE NOT THE ONLY WORKING GROUP BEING ASKED TO GIVE!!!!
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What you need to address though is what the World Wide/Long Haul cabin crew are getting in supplementary pay. The link above shows that it must be more than £20k p.a. on top of their basic
We all make our choices, whether its to train as a pilot or apply to be cabin crew, or to fly short-haul and have control over our life versus to fly long-haul and give it over to BA. We sign a contract, we know what the deal is so its a bit rich to start whining that someone else has a better/different deal. The same goes for crew post 1997, crew that didn't want promotion, crew at LGW, crew on charter carriers. We made our choices now we live with them and for what its worth, I wouldn't want to be a WW CSD for double what they get paid!
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The news is coming thick and fast.
British Airways has accepted an offer from the Unite union to reopen talks on cabin crew strike action today providing there are "no preconditions".
The airline made the move as it attempts to prevent Christmas travel misery for more than a million of its passengers.
However, there are no guarantees the talks will go ahead this afternoon.
Unite has said it will only talk if BA suspends the changes it has made to cabin crew working practices and rotas - a condition the airline says it is not willing to accept.
Later today, BA will begin a legal battle to protect customers from the "massive stress and disruption" a walkout from December 22 to January 2 would cause.
BA claims there were "irregularities" in Unite's strike ballot, which render it invalid.
The case will be heard in the High Court in London.
As a back-up to the legal action, BA said its managers have been establishing which cabin crew were willing to work normally during the strike period.
Chief executive Willie Walsh said: "We are absolutely determined to do whatever we can to protect our customers from this appalling, unjustified decision from Unite.
"Unite was told about the problems with its ballot on Friday. Yet it cynically went ahead with an extreme, highly-publicised threat to our customers."
Unite announced the strikes after its ballot showed a 92% majority in favour of industrial action. Some 80% of the union's 12,500 BA cabin crew members voted.
The union is protesting at the imposition of changes to crew numbers as well as a pay freeze and plans to introduce different rates of pay and conditions for new crew members.
Tony Woodley, joint general secretary of Unite, said Christmas travel on BA was being "held hostage by a macho management".
He said: "We offered to suspend any industrial action if the company would only agree to suspend its imposition of new terms and conditions on cabin crew.
"Willie Walsh turned this offer down flat. Confrontation, not negotiation, is his approach."
Airline analyst Andrew Fitchie, of Collins Stewart, estimates the strikes would cost BA between £10m to £30m a day.
That is on top of the firm's current losses of around £1.6m a day.
The airline made the move as it attempts to prevent Christmas travel misery for more than a million of its passengers.
However, there are no guarantees the talks will go ahead this afternoon.
Unite has said it will only talk if BA suspends the changes it has made to cabin crew working practices and rotas - a condition the airline says it is not willing to accept.
Later today, BA will begin a legal battle to protect customers from the "massive stress and disruption" a walkout from December 22 to January 2 would cause.
BA claims there were "irregularities" in Unite's strike ballot, which render it invalid.
The case will be heard in the High Court in London.
As a back-up to the legal action, BA said its managers have been establishing which cabin crew were willing to work normally during the strike period.
Chief executive Willie Walsh said: "We are absolutely determined to do whatever we can to protect our customers from this appalling, unjustified decision from Unite.
"Unite was told about the problems with its ballot on Friday. Yet it cynically went ahead with an extreme, highly-publicised threat to our customers."
Unite announced the strikes after its ballot showed a 92% majority in favour of industrial action. Some 80% of the union's 12,500 BA cabin crew members voted.
The union is protesting at the imposition of changes to crew numbers as well as a pay freeze and plans to introduce different rates of pay and conditions for new crew members.
Tony Woodley, joint general secretary of Unite, said Christmas travel on BA was being "held hostage by a macho management".
He said: "We offered to suspend any industrial action if the company would only agree to suspend its imposition of new terms and conditions on cabin crew.
"Willie Walsh turned this offer down flat. Confrontation, not negotiation, is his approach."
Airline analyst Andrew Fitchie, of Collins Stewart, estimates the strikes would cost BA between £10m to £30m a day.
That is on top of the firm's current losses of around £1.6m a day.
Sid (and others), I think this "you earn /I earn stuff" has been done to death and frankly it's getting boring. There's now a real risk of alienating some of the least militant Cabin crew, the one's who at the moment are willing to engage in constructive debate on this forum. If we're not careful we're only going to be debating with the likes of ALurker, PiB, etc..oh sorry, they don't do debate.
In short, please give it a rest.
In short, please give it a rest.
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Ottergirl - can you honestly say, hand on heart, that you are justified in earning MORE than a junior FO????????
Last edited by ottergirl; 17th Dec 2009 at 08:46. Reason: clarification
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I don t think I should apologise for what I earn taking into consideration that when I accepted my initial contract a flight to Amsterdam use to cost up to 500£ one way, it is/was all relevant, it was my choice at the time and it was what my company was offering at the time.
I also realize that a lot have changed around Ba since then and I am fully aware and prepared to work harder or more efficiently for what I earn but I should and would not compromise on what I believe is a fair wage.
We can belittle anyone's earning potential without having a minimum of history prospective and knowledge of how such wages came about, please lets change the subject and concentrate on the real issues that are truly endangering everyone future earning potential regardless of how much or little anyone earns.
I also realize that a lot have changed around Ba since then and I am fully aware and prepared to work harder or more efficiently for what I earn but I should and would not compromise on what I believe is a fair wage.
We can belittle anyone's earning potential without having a minimum of history prospective and knowledge of how such wages came about, please lets change the subject and concentrate on the real issues that are truly endangering everyone future earning potential regardless of how much or little anyone earns.
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I think you miss the point Ottergirl. Fundamentally!
The "You Earn/I earn" angle is not the issue.
BA Cabin Crew are NOT being asked for any pay cut.
What you earn is in the public domain and some are saying it is inflated - It is important to appreciate this fact in order to ask oneself the following question.
If Cabin Crew are NOT being asked to give up some of their arguably inflated pay, WTF are they striking for?
The "You Earn/I earn" angle is not the issue.
BA Cabin Crew are NOT being asked for any pay cut.
What you earn is in the public domain and some are saying it is inflated - It is important to appreciate this fact in order to ask oneself the following question.
If Cabin Crew are NOT being asked to give up some of their arguably inflated pay, WTF are they striking for?
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Ottergirl,
Very justified comments. Would others on this forum honestly believe BA's CEO should earn 4 times more than the Prime Minister? Walsh is trying to manage an airline, the PM is managing the whole country.
This " how can you justify your salary" argument is null and void.
Get used to it an deal with it.
Very justified comments. Would others on this forum honestly believe BA's CEO should earn 4 times more than the Prime Minister? Walsh is trying to manage an airline, the PM is managing the whole country.
This " how can you justify your salary" argument is null and void.
Get used to it an deal with it.
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sidthesexist
"can you honestly say hand on heart you are worth more.........".
Luckily situations like you have just described don't happen too often,however what if the FO copped it as well,then maybe the CSM would have to contact the control tower and ask how to turn on the automatic pilot.
Don't compare things that are not comparable!A CSD with 20 or so years worth of experience in my view is worth just as much ,and more than a fresh out of trainning junior FO.
"can you honestly say hand on heart you are worth more.........".
Luckily situations like you have just described don't happen too often,however what if the FO copped it as well,then maybe the CSM would have to contact the control tower and ask how to turn on the automatic pilot.
Don't compare things that are not comparable!A CSD with 20 or so years worth of experience in my view is worth just as much ,and more than a fresh out of trainning junior FO.
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SAMPLE LETTER TO SEND TO BA MANAGEMENT AND EVERY NATIONAL NEWSPAPER.
British Airways retired staff volunteer to help their airline:
The proposed strike by cabin crew fills me with a mixture of disgust and despair. But to sit back and do nothing to help is not in my or many other of my colleagues nature.
May I volunteer to work unpaid in whatever capacity that might be useful in order to protect my airline from the consequences of the proposed strike?
I realise that refresher training of volunteers at short notice may not be possible, or might not produce enough qualified people to make much actual difference. But the good publicity of BA retired staff getting out of their armchairs to come to the aid of their airline may be worth rather more.
With very best wishes for your efforts to deal with a multitude of threats to the well being of our airline.
British Airways retired staff volunteer to help their airline:
The proposed strike by cabin crew fills me with a mixture of disgust and despair. But to sit back and do nothing to help is not in my or many other of my colleagues nature.
May I volunteer to work unpaid in whatever capacity that might be useful in order to protect my airline from the consequences of the proposed strike?
I realise that refresher training of volunteers at short notice may not be possible, or might not produce enough qualified people to make much actual difference. But the good publicity of BA retired staff getting out of their armchairs to come to the aid of their airline may be worth rather more.
With very best wishes for your efforts to deal with a multitude of threats to the well being of our airline.
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Since this strike is not at all about pay, can we stop this discussion?
Officially the strike is about that BA did not involve the unions in changes that may or may not be contractual.
The latter was to be decided by a judge, but that was not good enough for BASSA. There is no conflict about pay. On neither side.
Officially the strike is about that BA did not involve the unions in changes that may or may not be contractual.
The latter was to be decided by a judge, but that was not good enough for BASSA. There is no conflict about pay. On neither side.
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Right Engine,
You are correct. The strike is not over pay. It is over management imposition rather than through meaningful negociation. The notion that it will therefore set a precedent for future changes to working practices, crew complements and T and Cs is deeply disquieting.
less than two years ago, management pledged a new dawn in TU relations, heralding an era of proper negociation through mutual respect etc.
That has now been thrown out the window and been forgotten. Despicable.
You are correct. The strike is not over pay. It is over management imposition rather than through meaningful negociation. The notion that it will therefore set a precedent for future changes to working practices, crew complements and T and Cs is deeply disquieting.
less than two years ago, management pledged a new dawn in TU relations, heralding an era of proper negociation through mutual respect etc.
That has now been thrown out the window and been forgotten. Despicable.
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What shocking arrogance.
Knowing the value of one's worth is not arrogant. How very British Stiff Upper Lip to believe so
And how very arrogant to imply that Ottergirl, with her years of experience and education, is worth less than, say, a Junior FO still repaying his bond.
Right, back to the subject at hand, methinks.