British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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From BASSA
I'm still drunk with laughter, what a great way to start a Friday Night
Can't wait for my 1000s of shares, go BASSA, upset the deal, please, then I don't have to take a pay cut, I don't have to work extra, and I don't have to do 3 man HKG this winter, please save me.......................
Still no ESS from the Chief Pilot, in fact I think BA positively revel in all this
They love the "upset" that it causes, infact BASSA they positively want us to engage Cabin Crew, so keep the reports coming
So you will see, if no agreement is reached in ANY of the other areas then their deal will be off and all those thousands of shares they were promised, will not be going their way!
In BASSA we have always endorsed and promoted positive CRM, as we know this is a vital part of how we and the pilots need to work in a safety critical environment and so these unwarranted comments will, and are, starting to damage this excellent process that has been developed over the past few years.
We have complained to British Airways about this and have handed over reports to them as we feel this is totally unacceptable & bordering on, in some cases, bullying.
We have been told that flight crew management will be sending an email out via ESS to all flight crew reminding them of good CRM.
We hope that this will now stop those certain individuals who believe they have the right to lecture and preach to you about something that has no relevance as to their role as a Captain or First officer.
However as there will probably still be those that still think they have a "god" like status and are immune to any instructions and may continue to berate you, politely tell them that it’s not up for discussion and isn’t conducive to positive CRM.
If they continue please contact BASSA immediately with their name and we will have to warn other crew about these individuals. Everyone is under stress and pressure during this period of negotiations and the last thing you need is more being added to it from colleagues that are supposed to support & work with you.
In BASSA we have always endorsed and promoted positive CRM, as we know this is a vital part of how we and the pilots need to work in a safety critical environment and so these unwarranted comments will, and are, starting to damage this excellent process that has been developed over the past few years.
We have complained to British Airways about this and have handed over reports to them as we feel this is totally unacceptable & bordering on, in some cases, bullying.
We have been told that flight crew management will be sending an email out via ESS to all flight crew reminding them of good CRM.
We hope that this will now stop those certain individuals who believe they have the right to lecture and preach to you about something that has no relevance as to their role as a Captain or First officer.
However as there will probably still be those that still think they have a "god" like status and are immune to any instructions and may continue to berate you, politely tell them that it’s not up for discussion and isn’t conducive to positive CRM.
If they continue please contact BASSA immediately with their name and we will have to warn other crew about these individuals. Everyone is under stress and pressure during this period of negotiations and the last thing you need is more being added to it from colleagues that are supposed to support & work with you.
I'm still drunk with laughter, what a great way to start a Friday Night
Can't wait for my 1000s of shares, go BASSA, upset the deal, please, then I don't have to take a pay cut, I don't have to work extra, and I don't have to do 3 man HKG this winter, please save me.......................
Still no ESS from the Chief Pilot, in fact I think BA positively revel in all this
They love the "upset" that it causes, infact BASSA they positively want us to engage Cabin Crew, so keep the reports coming
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I read this with absolute astonishment.
I'm now really worried that Bassa really do believe they are cast iron buoyed up by the "hang them all" (ie: pilots, WW, anyone who dares to question them) mentality of the people who post on the cabin crew forums.
What is worrying me is that percentage wise, these posters are a mere drop in the ocean, but repeated enough, it becomes perceived wisdom and therefore we are being led, like lemmings, to the cliff edge
(this lemming is looking for a parachute!)
I'm now really worried that Bassa really do believe they are cast iron buoyed up by the "hang them all" (ie: pilots, WW, anyone who dares to question them) mentality of the people who post on the cabin crew forums.
What is worrying me is that percentage wise, these posters are a mere drop in the ocean, but repeated enough, it becomes perceived wisdom and therefore we are being led, like lemmings, to the cliff edge
(this lemming is looking for a parachute!)
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I've been browsing this thread since it started.
I don't work for BA, I don't even work in the UK, I work for AnAother airline.
While none of this is anything to do with me directly I felt I had to sign up to post to anti pilot comments, especially the one that said words to the effect that they wouldn't trust them to wash their car! Seriously? You seriously think that? Then what the hell are you doing the job for? I work with a number of pilots that I don't like on a personal level. I see their name on the crew list and sigh but would I trust them with my life? Damn straight I would. Most of them don't come from priviledged backgrounds and serve in the military or go into debt and work crappy jobs flying regional jets for next to nothing before they can get hired at a company like mine or BA. I agree that the pilots should stay out of it when you're at work but remember you taking strike action can drag the whole company down. What you do effects all of them.
At my airline we've taken a large hit. We've made huge sacrifices to keep the company going. I've been with my airline 11 years and I'm still not a line holder. I'm still on reserve with a roster that would make you weep. Do I have to put up with it? No. I can leave and get another non flying job but I do the job because I love it. And guess what? It's the easiest job I've ever done and I come from a nursing background. We're not rocket scientists, we're not EMTs, we walk around asking if people want chicken or beef and if it all goes wrong we (hopefully) remember our training and evacuate the plane.
As for CSD's not working? Give me a break. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard.
I think you all need to take a long hard look at your terms and conditions and what's being offered and get a reality check!
I don't work for BA, I don't even work in the UK, I work for AnAother airline.
While none of this is anything to do with me directly I felt I had to sign up to post to anti pilot comments, especially the one that said words to the effect that they wouldn't trust them to wash their car! Seriously? You seriously think that? Then what the hell are you doing the job for? I work with a number of pilots that I don't like on a personal level. I see their name on the crew list and sigh but would I trust them with my life? Damn straight I would. Most of them don't come from priviledged backgrounds and serve in the military or go into debt and work crappy jobs flying regional jets for next to nothing before they can get hired at a company like mine or BA. I agree that the pilots should stay out of it when you're at work but remember you taking strike action can drag the whole company down. What you do effects all of them.
At my airline we've taken a large hit. We've made huge sacrifices to keep the company going. I've been with my airline 11 years and I'm still not a line holder. I'm still on reserve with a roster that would make you weep. Do I have to put up with it? No. I can leave and get another non flying job but I do the job because I love it. And guess what? It's the easiest job I've ever done and I come from a nursing background. We're not rocket scientists, we're not EMTs, we walk around asking if people want chicken or beef and if it all goes wrong we (hopefully) remember our training and evacuate the plane.
As for CSD's not working? Give me a break. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard.
I think you all need to take a long hard look at your terms and conditions and what's being offered and get a reality check!
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What makes me a little sad is the attitude towards crew when the others find out they are non members.
Did a nice long day trip recently, 5 crew, 2 pursars, one called off stand by. Fair enough, no others avail i guess.
Everyone got on really well the in charge pursar was a top bloke, very good at his job and ticked all the boxes. On the t/r the other pursar asked him for the bassa number and he said he doesn't have it, and wasn't in it.
Cue the rest of the day a bolshy attitude from the other pursar towards the in charge.........Pathetic. It's not a requirement.
....
My absoloute favourite recently was flying with a skip who had a phone call saying he got reported by a crew member for harrassment. The manager said they looked into it and it wasn't on his record and it had been disregarded. It transpired that the crew were in the bar and 3 of the 4 crew were crying out for facts on the state of the company, which were given. Just the one crew member felt it was all wrong and that the skip was spreading rubbish.....thus the need for a report.
Now, tell me which side of the f/d door has a 'god complex'.......
Did a nice long day trip recently, 5 crew, 2 pursars, one called off stand by. Fair enough, no others avail i guess.
Everyone got on really well the in charge pursar was a top bloke, very good at his job and ticked all the boxes. On the t/r the other pursar asked him for the bassa number and he said he doesn't have it, and wasn't in it.
Cue the rest of the day a bolshy attitude from the other pursar towards the in charge.........Pathetic. It's not a requirement.
....
My absoloute favourite recently was flying with a skip who had a phone call saying he got reported by a crew member for harrassment. The manager said they looked into it and it wasn't on his record and it had been disregarded. It transpired that the crew were in the bar and 3 of the 4 crew were crying out for facts on the state of the company, which were given. Just the one crew member felt it was all wrong and that the skip was spreading rubbish.....thus the need for a report.
Now, tell me which side of the f/d door has a 'god complex'.......
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Hi - to USFA and From Tunbridge Wells and thanks for sharing your objective views on what is an extremely difficult time for those of us caught up in it. It is really reassuring, for those of us that do not support the BASSA stance, to know that we are not going mad!
I am BA cabin crew, and I am absolutely mortified by the way some of my colleagues are behaving. To all pilots everywhere, please please know that they do NOT represent the majority. I and many of my colleagues fully appreciate the very hard and skilled work that you do - I always have a superb rapport with the flight crew I work with, and have NEVER had cause to complain. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for your professionalism and expertise and am ashamed by the attitude of my colleagues. I'm not married to a pilot, I simply respect their profession.
The problem we have here is enormous. BASSA simply fight because they can. Not because they have reason or logic. Simply because they can. They want to be in control. They are nobodys that have become somebodys by attaining the grand position of Union reps and can now wield this enormous influence over people. So they do. Somebody said it is the blind leading the blind sheep, and that is exactly right.
BASSA have now told it's followers that the BA proposal is a 40% pay cut
. It is not. It is simply working harder, or longer, or more. That's all.
CSDs working on the plane (shock, horror)
Single nightstops for WW instead of double
Less time off on EF
A disruption agreement that puts the customer first.
And that is it. Nothing that isn't doable. Or perhaps negotiable.
But please, please help us. We do not know how to explain to our colleagues that BASSA are leading them to the dole queue. Some have tried, on other forums, only to be absolutely slated. As GG has stated, over on CF they are literally like rabid dogs. Some Cabin crew have actually been named on there and phrases like "I'd like to punch their ugly faces" are being banded about. The language is beyond obscene. These people are so so riled up by the BASSA hysteria that they have lost the little ability they had to think in the first place.
What can we do? This is getting dangerous now. CRM is at an all time low - not only between Pilots and Cabin crew, but within the cabin crew community. We need to stop the rot. Some have spoken out on our ESS forum and they are now in serious danger because they are being threatend on the CrewForum, which goes completely unmoderated. I am not prepared to sit back and let BASSA ruin our great company. But what alternatives do we have when faced with a pack of hysterical, abusive people who haven't had the sense to read and understand the proposals for themselves?
I am BA cabin crew, and I am absolutely mortified by the way some of my colleagues are behaving. To all pilots everywhere, please please know that they do NOT represent the majority. I and many of my colleagues fully appreciate the very hard and skilled work that you do - I always have a superb rapport with the flight crew I work with, and have NEVER had cause to complain. I have nothing but the greatest admiration for your professionalism and expertise and am ashamed by the attitude of my colleagues. I'm not married to a pilot, I simply respect their profession.
The problem we have here is enormous. BASSA simply fight because they can. Not because they have reason or logic. Simply because they can. They want to be in control. They are nobodys that have become somebodys by attaining the grand position of Union reps and can now wield this enormous influence over people. So they do. Somebody said it is the blind leading the blind sheep, and that is exactly right.
BASSA have now told it's followers that the BA proposal is a 40% pay cut
. It is not. It is simply working harder, or longer, or more. That's all.CSDs working on the plane (shock, horror)
Single nightstops for WW instead of double
Less time off on EF
A disruption agreement that puts the customer first.
And that is it. Nothing that isn't doable. Or perhaps negotiable.
But please, please help us. We do not know how to explain to our colleagues that BASSA are leading them to the dole queue. Some have tried, on other forums, only to be absolutely slated. As GG has stated, over on CF they are literally like rabid dogs. Some Cabin crew have actually been named on there and phrases like "I'd like to punch their ugly faces" are being banded about. The language is beyond obscene. These people are so so riled up by the BASSA hysteria that they have lost the little ability they had to think in the first place.
What can we do? This is getting dangerous now. CRM is at an all time low - not only between Pilots and Cabin crew, but within the cabin crew community. We need to stop the rot. Some have spoken out on our ESS forum and they are now in serious danger because they are being threatend on the CrewForum, which goes completely unmoderated. I am not prepared to sit back and let BASSA ruin our great company. But what alternatives do we have when faced with a pack of hysterical, abusive people who haven't had the sense to read and understand the proposals for themselves?
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With regard to CrewForum, I am not a participant there but am disgusted that it would appear that crew members who Dare to express a view not in line with the BASSA edict are threatened with violence.
I would urge anyone who is threatened in such a way should report this to the police. Anonymous forums are great, cowards can have a field day like this. As a member of the pilot community I have had first hand experience of crew self-harming down route. Attacks directed to individuals affect people in very different ways, some have thick skins, some don't.
The "owner" of CF has a moral responsibility to shut this forum down if that is the state of contributions.
I would urge anyone who is threatened in such a way should report this to the police. Anonymous forums are great, cowards can have a field day like this. As a member of the pilot community I have had first hand experience of crew self-harming down route. Attacks directed to individuals affect people in very different ways, some have thick skins, some don't.
The "owner" of CF has a moral responsibility to shut this forum down if that is the state of contributions.
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Hi HiFlyer
Good post.
And we , as pilots , are well aware that many - probably the vast majority - of crew are open-minded and intelligent individuals who are prepared to discuss the situation and gain as much information they possibly can.
Even if that means actually talking to pilots, or even, god forbid, asking their opinion.
2 problems:
firstly, there are some crew who simply won't discuss any details, but rely totally on galley fm, and Bassa flyers. They don't like to read small print.
secondly, there are the barrack room lawyer types who tend to instinctively hate pilots, management, and anyone else who they perceive as being "different" in some way. Sometimes these crewmembers even try to trap you by starting the conversation then sneering about Balpa in some way.
I also accept that some pilots have overstepped their rights in order to - as they would put it - brief or inform - their crews.
We know that much of what Bassa writes is limited in its accuracy and clearly they are manipulating their members into a terminal fight.
Maybe they genuinely believe that this is the best approach.
But is it?
Most crew could work a little harder for a a very small pay decrease.
Some changes to limits and disruption agreements would very rarely affect them, and would often benefit them ( eg. get home earlier after disruption; less standby).
But no. It always has to be war because the reps have to protect their position and pay and bidding.
Good post.
And we , as pilots , are well aware that many - probably the vast majority - of crew are open-minded and intelligent individuals who are prepared to discuss the situation and gain as much information they possibly can.
Even if that means actually talking to pilots, or even, god forbid, asking their opinion.
2 problems:
firstly, there are some crew who simply won't discuss any details, but rely totally on galley fm, and Bassa flyers. They don't like to read small print.
secondly, there are the barrack room lawyer types who tend to instinctively hate pilots, management, and anyone else who they perceive as being "different" in some way. Sometimes these crewmembers even try to trap you by starting the conversation then sneering about Balpa in some way.
I also accept that some pilots have overstepped their rights in order to - as they would put it - brief or inform - their crews.
We know that much of what Bassa writes is limited in its accuracy and clearly they are manipulating their members into a terminal fight.
Maybe they genuinely believe that this is the best approach.
But is it?
Most crew could work a little harder for a a very small pay decrease.
Some changes to limits and disruption agreements would very rarely affect them, and would often benefit them ( eg. get home earlier after disruption; less standby).
But no. It always has to be war because the reps have to protect their position and pay and bidding.
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I am a member of Ground Staff and would just like to add my two pennyworth!
1. I cannot, and will not, accept the argument that BASSA Trades Union Reps are troublemakers or "nobodys" who have become "somebodys" by attaining the position of Shop Steward. That is downright libellous! Why does anyone become a Shop Steward? - it's a thankless job, being moaned at by members who think you aren't achieving enough, and by management who think you are asking for too much! You get the blame when someone you are representing at a Disciplinary gets the sack for being caught with their fingers in the till etc etc. I'll tell you, people become a Shop Steward from a genuine desire to help their colleagues and make a difference.
You get called in on your days off to help when a member screws up and swears at a manager or gets caught trying to steal duty-frees from the aeroplane. You continually get calls from members bitching when a manager or supervisor tries to break an agreement - once, I remember, when I was on the beach in Bournemouth with my children! Repping is not for the faint-hearted!
Have you ever attended a meeting between British Airways' management and the Trades Unions? No? Until the present hard-nosed Broughton/Walsh combination, the management and union reps worked very closely together and, notwithstanding the odd dispute here and there, jointly achieved a great deal.
The most noteworthy achievement was in the fallout from 09/11 when the TU reps approached Rod Eddington and offered temporary fixes to help muddle through the crisis - we even stood outside the Houses of Parliament to obtain cash to help the British Aviation Industry. Without that union obtained cash, those who so despise the unions would have no job today!
This Broughton/Walsh combination were brought in to deliberately break the unions and that is exactly what they are seeking to do, using the recession as an excuse. Why else would Walsh reject out of hand the unions offer made 9 months ago to help temporarily for the duration of the downturn? He insisted any changes would have to be permanent.
Our Trades Union Reps, to a man, (even BASSA) are reasonable people - they are not militant. The truly militant Shop Stewards were hoofed out a few years ago. I would dearly love to know exactly what the "Restrictive Union Agreements" that Walsh keeps harping on about really are, because as far as I know, all the "Restrictive" stuff disappeared with the "T5 Agreement".
What does fill me with disgust is the thought that people who are so "holy" that they don't believe in Unions (usually because Daddy or Sugar Daddy gives an independent income and the person doesn't really need the job at BA) gets all the benefits that are negotiated by the Unions. In my opinion, non-union members should have to go cap-in-hand to management and negotiate their own deals - with Willie Walsh, I suspect I know how far they would get!
2. I don't believe in calling a strike at this stage, unless BASSA is backed into a corner. Apart from the blindingly obvious inconvenience to our non-deserving customers, I rather suspect that a strike would (a) result in Cabin Crew, many of whom are personal friends, losing jobs as the teams of "pool crews" Willie has created are brought in to operate services and (b) a strike would possible dewstroy British Airways for ever!
3. A strike would place us Customer Service people in a very difficult position. Secondary action is illegal, but I would have great difficulty in knowingly checking-in or boarding passengers on to an aircraft manned by what wouljd effectively be "scab-labour". If I refuised, British Airways would have the right to sack me for refusing a legal instruction and if I worked, I would be acting against my principles. Quite a tough decision.
4. The deal done with BALPA left our pilots with their Terms and Conditions almost intact. (I have been corrected here and await full details of the agreement) Those who drive an Aston Martin to work will still be able to do so and can look forward to a nice fat share option in a couple of years. It is a diabolical insult to the Three Front-Line Groups to expect us to sit back and accept lifestyle changing contractual changes. This deal with BALPA doesn't mean, asnd shouldn't mean, that we have any axe to grind with the pilot community - they managed a reasonable deal, good luck to them! However, just because the pilot community has sorted out a deal, that does not give them the right to tell the rest of us to accept a metaphorical scythe slicing throuh our contracts!
5. One of the major sticking points is that BA wants to include a clause of "Total Flexibility" when they refuse to define what they mean by that. If you're happy to be sent home today for two days, but called back in on your rostered days off, then fine - but some of us have families and busy lives to organise.
As far as I am concerned, the only way out of this mess (which effectively gives a massive pay cut to all of us - whether 40% I don't know, but at least a 25% cut) is for Willie Walsh to be removed from office. I hope, against hope, that there will be a vote of no-confidence called for at the Shareholders AGM - the first one in our history where a Question and Answer session has been refused - and that the shareholders do the sensible thing.
One thing I suspect is that, whatever the outcome of this horrible Broughton/Walsh created mess, British Airways will never be the same company again!
..........and we need our Trades Unions as never before!
1. I cannot, and will not, accept the argument that BASSA Trades Union Reps are troublemakers or "nobodys" who have become "somebodys" by attaining the position of Shop Steward. That is downright libellous! Why does anyone become a Shop Steward? - it's a thankless job, being moaned at by members who think you aren't achieving enough, and by management who think you are asking for too much! You get the blame when someone you are representing at a Disciplinary gets the sack for being caught with their fingers in the till etc etc. I'll tell you, people become a Shop Steward from a genuine desire to help their colleagues and make a difference.
You get called in on your days off to help when a member screws up and swears at a manager or gets caught trying to steal duty-frees from the aeroplane. You continually get calls from members bitching when a manager or supervisor tries to break an agreement - once, I remember, when I was on the beach in Bournemouth with my children! Repping is not for the faint-hearted!
Have you ever attended a meeting between British Airways' management and the Trades Unions? No? Until the present hard-nosed Broughton/Walsh combination, the management and union reps worked very closely together and, notwithstanding the odd dispute here and there, jointly achieved a great deal.
The most noteworthy achievement was in the fallout from 09/11 when the TU reps approached Rod Eddington and offered temporary fixes to help muddle through the crisis - we even stood outside the Houses of Parliament to obtain cash to help the British Aviation Industry. Without that union obtained cash, those who so despise the unions would have no job today!
This Broughton/Walsh combination were brought in to deliberately break the unions and that is exactly what they are seeking to do, using the recession as an excuse. Why else would Walsh reject out of hand the unions offer made 9 months ago to help temporarily for the duration of the downturn? He insisted any changes would have to be permanent.
Our Trades Union Reps, to a man, (even BASSA) are reasonable people - they are not militant. The truly militant Shop Stewards were hoofed out a few years ago. I would dearly love to know exactly what the "Restrictive Union Agreements" that Walsh keeps harping on about really are, because as far as I know, all the "Restrictive" stuff disappeared with the "T5 Agreement".
What does fill me with disgust is the thought that people who are so "holy" that they don't believe in Unions (usually because Daddy or Sugar Daddy gives an independent income and the person doesn't really need the job at BA) gets all the benefits that are negotiated by the Unions. In my opinion, non-union members should have to go cap-in-hand to management and negotiate their own deals - with Willie Walsh, I suspect I know how far they would get!
2. I don't believe in calling a strike at this stage, unless BASSA is backed into a corner. Apart from the blindingly obvious inconvenience to our non-deserving customers, I rather suspect that a strike would (a) result in Cabin Crew, many of whom are personal friends, losing jobs as the teams of "pool crews" Willie has created are brought in to operate services and (b) a strike would possible dewstroy British Airways for ever!
3. A strike would place us Customer Service people in a very difficult position. Secondary action is illegal, but I would have great difficulty in knowingly checking-in or boarding passengers on to an aircraft manned by what wouljd effectively be "scab-labour". If I refuised, British Airways would have the right to sack me for refusing a legal instruction and if I worked, I would be acting against my principles. Quite a tough decision.
4. The deal done with BALPA left our pilots with their Terms and Conditions almost intact. (I have been corrected here and await full details of the agreement) Those who drive an Aston Martin to work will still be able to do so and can look forward to a nice fat share option in a couple of years. It is a diabolical insult to the Three Front-Line Groups to expect us to sit back and accept lifestyle changing contractual changes. This deal with BALPA doesn't mean, asnd shouldn't mean, that we have any axe to grind with the pilot community - they managed a reasonable deal, good luck to them! However, just because the pilot community has sorted out a deal, that does not give them the right to tell the rest of us to accept a metaphorical scythe slicing throuh our contracts!
5. One of the major sticking points is that BA wants to include a clause of "Total Flexibility" when they refuse to define what they mean by that. If you're happy to be sent home today for two days, but called back in on your rostered days off, then fine - but some of us have families and busy lives to organise.
As far as I am concerned, the only way out of this mess (which effectively gives a massive pay cut to all of us - whether 40% I don't know, but at least a 25% cut) is for Willie Walsh to be removed from office. I hope, against hope, that there will be a vote of no-confidence called for at the Shareholders AGM - the first one in our history where a Question and Answer session has been refused - and that the shareholders do the sensible thing.
One thing I suspect is that, whatever the outcome of this horrible Broughton/Walsh created mess, British Airways will never be the same company again!
..........and we need our Trades Unions as never before!
Last edited by bealine; 11th Jul 2009 at 12:19.
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Bealine
Wrong about the "pool crew" at last count it was barely 500 in the pool.
Wrong again, read back through the thread to see exactly what is happening to our (pilots) terms and conditions, if you can't be bothered to trawl through it ,then PM me and I will send the grissily details. But I assure you they have not been as you say
Aston Martin?? Try a 10 year old french diesel car
I don't believe in calling a strike at this stage, unless BASSA is backed into a corner. Apart from the blindingly obvious inconvenience to our non-deserving customers, I rather suspect that a strike would (a) result in Cabin Crew, many of whom are personal friends, losing jobs as the teams of "pool crews" Willie has created are brought in to operate services and (b) a strike would possible dewstroy British Airways for ever!
The deal done with BALPA left our pilots with their Terms and Conditions intact. Those who drive an Aston Martin to work will still be able to do so and can look forward to a nice fat share option in a couple of years. It is a diabolical insult to the Three Front-Line Groups to expect us to sit back and accept lifestyle changing contractual changes.
with their Terms and Conditions intact.
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Hi Da Dog - thanks for your response.
Okay - even 500 would mean a good number of flights could operate - even more if we wet leased from our usual suppliers!
Okay - I will take your word for that! I have skimmed 17 pages and can't find anything but if you PM me, I will certainly pass the "grisly details" around our TU reps and staff to ensure that everyone knows exactly to what you agreed.
Ah - that's you! I asure you though, that when I take my trusty VW Polo into work, I am often followed by pilots in rather tasty cars. (Not that I'm jealous - if I had seriously considered aviation as a career before mid-life, I may very well be a pilot and earning enough to live instead of trying to support a family on a little over £20K pa and just about to go into arrears on the mortgage for the first time in 28 years (after successive years of pay freezes and miniscule increases, I find it galling that Broughton/Walsh want to attack the lowest-paid employees in the company!)
Wrong about the "pool crew" at last count it was barely 500 in the pool.
Wrong again, read back through the thread to see exactly what is happening to our (pilots) terms and conditions, if you can't be bothered to trawl through it ,then PM me and I will send the grissily details. But I assure you they have not been as you say
Aston Martin?? Try a 10 year old french diesel car
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As far as I am concerned, the only way out of this mess (which effectively gives a massive pay cut to all of us - whether 40% I don't know, but at least a 25% cut) is for Willie Walsh to be removed from office. I hope, against hope, that there will be a vote of no-confidence called for at the Shareholders AGM - the first one in our history where a Question and Answer session has been refused - and that the shareholders do the sensible thing.
And the major shareholders in the City, the ones that are able to do anything, as far as I can see support WW.
Have a read of
British Airways Strike Risk Grows as Unions Attack Walsh Cuts - Bloomberg.com
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any replacement would have the same objectives.
And the major shareholders in the City, the ones that are able to do anything, as far as I can see support WW.
The City can't be entirely stupid though, can it? If the Broughton/Walsh combo is left in place, there is a strong possibility that British Airways could collapse! These two are bringing the company to the very brink! Surely investors must see that BA is in a very deep, Broughton/Walsh manufactured crisis?
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I cannot, for the life of me, understand why! What "Restrictive Practises" do we have nowadays?
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Surely investors must see that BA is in a very deep, Broughton/Walsh manufactured crisis?
The investors believe that the future lies the Walsh/Broughton route. That is why they are there. Not 1 single investor was prepared to lend us the cash to survive the winter on the old business plan. Lenders are prepared to lend us money with the cost cuts in place. The new business plan goes through or we run out of cash and go bust.
The problem lies with the fact that even our major shareholders do not have a significant holding. Standard Life has the biggest stake, and they only account for 7% of the issue.
Invesco own 11% alone, the other 7 are Lloyds 5.4%, Iberia 9.1%, HBOS 6%, Barclays 6.9%, AXA 4%, Standard life 7% and Legal and General 4%.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 11th Jul 2009 at 13:00.
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I understand what you say, although British Airways has manufactured its own downfall by successively leading Price Wars year after year after year ever since privatisation. The glorious years of "World Offers" and "Winter Warmers" have bitten us in the bum!
What I also cannot understand is how the Government can stand idly by, and watch the Unions being deliberately provoked in this way, in order to start an all out war! Bearing in mind "Labour" still gets more than a small part of its funding from the Trades Unions, if Unite and GMB lose 40,000 odd members, there will be quite a hole in Labour's purse!
Are there "Restrictive Agreements" among our crews then (that aren't CAA / FAA driven)? I don't think there are any more.
What I also cannot understand is how the Government can stand idly by, and watch the Unions being deliberately provoked in this way, in order to start an all out war! Bearing in mind "Labour" still gets more than a small part of its funding from the Trades Unions, if Unite and GMB lose 40,000 odd members, there will be quite a hole in Labour's purse!
Bealine, I am aware there are hardly any dodgy practices on the ground anymore.
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ACAS talks from Bassa's point of view!
bealine - Personally (as an ex-ground engineer) I wouldn't appreciate Unite joining my departments negotiations to that of Bassa's.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Your BASSA reps have not as yet been invited to attend, as the central Union officers of UNITE met with British Airways side to discuss practical arrangements for any future talks facilitated by ACAS. ( ie dates, venues etc before the specifics were dealt with by your BASSA negotiators.)
BASSA was represented by Steve Turner, National Secretary of UNITE.
In a somewhat clumsy and transparent attempt to isolate the Cabin crew community British Airways have insisted that all other areas, Ground staff, A scales etc are dealt with and balloted first before any discussions with cabin crew would be allowed to go ahead.
As we have previously warned you elements within the Leadership team are intent on singling out and isolating the cabin crew for the brunt of cost cuts. This manoeuvre would allow them to do that by leaving us to stand alone by possibly offering settlements elsewhere with the aim of weakening your resolve and to allow them to claim to the media "other areas except cabin crew have accepted cuts". This heralding a flood of outraged letters to BA news from "Andrew" in the IM department demanding crew accept these changes, as he has had to downgrade to a slightly smaller laptop, so why shouldn’t we have our agreements decimated etc etc...
Fortunately, our colleagues in the other areas of the union and led by Steve Turner were wise to this ploy and have refused to allow BA to isolate cabin crew and have insisted that the cabin crew discussions remain alongside all the other areas affected.
British Airways departed the talks in a state of some huff as they couldn’t get their own way, leaving a somewhat bemused ACAS who thought they were dealing with an airline in crisis.
BASSA was represented by Steve Turner, National Secretary of UNITE.
In a somewhat clumsy and transparent attempt to isolate the Cabin crew community British Airways have insisted that all other areas, Ground staff, A scales etc are dealt with and balloted first before any discussions with cabin crew would be allowed to go ahead.
As we have previously warned you elements within the Leadership team are intent on singling out and isolating the cabin crew for the brunt of cost cuts. This manoeuvre would allow them to do that by leaving us to stand alone by possibly offering settlements elsewhere with the aim of weakening your resolve and to allow them to claim to the media "other areas except cabin crew have accepted cuts". This heralding a flood of outraged letters to BA news from "Andrew" in the IM department demanding crew accept these changes, as he has had to downgrade to a slightly smaller laptop, so why shouldn’t we have our agreements decimated etc etc...
Fortunately, our colleagues in the other areas of the union and led by Steve Turner were wise to this ploy and have refused to allow BA to isolate cabin crew and have insisted that the cabin crew discussions remain alongside all the other areas affected.
British Airways departed the talks in a state of some huff as they couldn’t get their own way, leaving a somewhat bemused ACAS who thought they were dealing with an airline in crisis.
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Without wishing to go off topic any more...
Individuals make up 97% of shareholders and own 10% of the shares
2% of the shareholders (Banks and other companies) own 88% of the shares.
Makes you wonder who will have the most influence........
Look at Page 61 of the 2008/09 Annual Report
http://www.britishairways.com/cms/gl...AR_2008_09.pdf
Individuals make up 97% of shareholders and own 10% of the shares
2% of the shareholders (Banks and other companies) own 88% of the shares.
Makes you wonder who will have the most influence........
Look at Page 61 of the 2008/09 Annual Report
http://www.britishairways.com/cms/gl...AR_2008_09.pdf
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Are there "Restrictive Agreements" among our crews then (that aren't CAA / FAA driven)? I don't think there are any more.
That is why I cant fathom why ground Unite wish to get mixed up in the inevitable calamity that BASSA are bringing on themselves and sadly their membership.
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To highlight some the restrictive agreements that Bassa still operate - this is taken from another site and I hope the original poster doesn't mind. It occurred fairly recently.
This is through no fault of the crew concerned but the silly union agreements that are stuck to rigidly.
Edited to add -
Five crew rostered for a single sector European flight at the start of a 3 day tour. The flight was delayed by 3 hours and arrived at 2355Z. This meant because of post flight duties it became a night duty.
The crew were then given 30 hrs off on full allowances and position home as passengers.
To summarise 5 cabin crew, 3 days away and they only operated one 40 minute sector.
The crew were then given 30 hrs off on full allowances and position home as passengers.
To summarise 5 cabin crew, 3 days away and they only operated one 40 minute sector.
Edited to add -
The pilots also qualified for 30 hrs off under BLRs but elected to take sufficient rest (12 hrs) and operate 3 further sectors which might otherwise be cancelled.