British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Perhaps it would be a greater loss for pilots were the company to fail as they are paid the market rate as we so often hear Ryanair will be waiting to take them on at an ever so slightly lower wage.
Why do you think O'Leary has never gone Long Haul?
2500 cabin crew at sandown park 20% of the workforce bearing in mind a full fleet flying today. Time to open your little ears Willie your staff are ready for a fight.
There is a huge difference between standing in a crowd and having to put your livelihood on a piece of paper.
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CFC,
You won't hear anything on a crewbus from the pilots.
Don't forget that BASSA cried 'Bully' if pilots expressed an opinion against the hive mind.
Edit: If you want to txt l33t speak then it's 'GR8'.
You won't hear anything on a crewbus from the pilots.
Don't forget that BASSA cried 'Bully' if pilots expressed an opinion against the hive mind.
Edit: If you want to txt l33t speak then it's 'GR8'.
Last edited by wobble2plank; 2nd Nov 2009 at 17:11.
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Just a point which needs to be made:
I believe a 'legal eagle' spoke at Sandown, to say that you cannot be sacked for taking part in legal industrial action. I find this so simplistic as to be almost intentionally misleading! Wobble2plank made a more accurate assessment in his post no 2484, and it needs to be well understood by those intending to withdraw their labour!
As I understand it, anyone withdrawing their labour will be sacked!
However, any such dismissal will automatically be deemed to be unfair, and as such the individual (or group) will presumably resort to the normal channel for remedy to unfair dismissal. This is a rather long, drawn out process, and in any case there is an upper limit to the size of any such award, and no requirement to offer re-employment.
Obviously, if support for a 'walkout' (not just a ballot!) is 100% solid, then those losing their jobs on the first day, might rely on their colleagues to refuse to return to work unless, and until all their colleagues are re-instated!
Particularly since such a relatively small percentage of the workforce are required to declare their position on the first day of IA, I guess it's a fine judgement to decide how much you anticipate your colleagues would be prepared to sacrifice their livelihoods, (or voluntary redundancy payments, or new part time contracts) to save yours!
High stakes indeed. Please don't be caught out by bad advice!
PS: I also believe a mass 'sick out' may be deemed as 'pattern sickness', and will put BA on an even firmer footing for dealing with individuals. Please don't take this route if you wish to retain your employment, as you will have no protection in law.
No personal axe to grind either way.
I believe a 'legal eagle' spoke at Sandown, to say that you cannot be sacked for taking part in legal industrial action. I find this so simplistic as to be almost intentionally misleading! Wobble2plank made a more accurate assessment in his post no 2484, and it needs to be well understood by those intending to withdraw their labour!
As I understand it, anyone withdrawing their labour will be sacked!
However, any such dismissal will automatically be deemed to be unfair, and as such the individual (or group) will presumably resort to the normal channel for remedy to unfair dismissal. This is a rather long, drawn out process, and in any case there is an upper limit to the size of any such award, and no requirement to offer re-employment.
Obviously, if support for a 'walkout' (not just a ballot!) is 100% solid, then those losing their jobs on the first day, might rely on their colleagues to refuse to return to work unless, and until all their colleagues are re-instated!
Particularly since such a relatively small percentage of the workforce are required to declare their position on the first day of IA, I guess it's a fine judgement to decide how much you anticipate your colleagues would be prepared to sacrifice their livelihoods, (or voluntary redundancy payments, or new part time contracts) to save yours!
High stakes indeed. Please don't be caught out by bad advice!
PS: I also believe a mass 'sick out' may be deemed as 'pattern sickness', and will put BA on an even firmer footing for dealing with individuals. Please don't take this route if you wish to retain your employment, as you will have no protection in law.
No personal axe to grind either way.
Last edited by 4468; 2nd Nov 2009 at 17:59.
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Don't forget that BASSA cried 'Bully' if pilots expressed an opinion against the hive mind.
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As you can see from my number of posts, I do not contribute, as a general rule, to pprune. This thread however has got me sooo riled that I have no choice.
1. I had the dubious pleasure of a Lagos a few weeks ago and one Star led to another until there were 5 people left in the bar. Me, 2x CC and 2 other strangers. We all got talking and the 2 unknowns were an ex-virgin F/O that had been made redundant and an ex-XL PSR (obviously made redundant) that were now working for Arik (who?). What the 2 strangers & I could not believe was the belligerent attitude of the 2 CC who could just not see that change was mandatory. They genuinely felt it was better to bring the company down rather than accept different T&Cs.
2. I wonder if the BASSA leadership have taken today´s figures of a 250M loss as a positive thing. Afterall, last quarter it was 401M loss, so surely that means that the company will be in profit early next year. Oh hang on, we´ll be bust by then...
3. BA have missed a trick at today´s meeting. I assume that everyone who attended was baying for a strike. Well maybe the company should have sped their path to the Jobcentre by issuing all participants at the meeting with their P45 as they walked out of the door. That would certainly help to resolve the cash-flow problem.
Bring on New Fleet and pronto.
1. I had the dubious pleasure of a Lagos a few weeks ago and one Star led to another until there were 5 people left in the bar. Me, 2x CC and 2 other strangers. We all got talking and the 2 unknowns were an ex-virgin F/O that had been made redundant and an ex-XL PSR (obviously made redundant) that were now working for Arik (who?). What the 2 strangers & I could not believe was the belligerent attitude of the 2 CC who could just not see that change was mandatory. They genuinely felt it was better to bring the company down rather than accept different T&Cs.
2. I wonder if the BASSA leadership have taken today´s figures of a 250M loss as a positive thing. Afterall, last quarter it was 401M loss, so surely that means that the company will be in profit early next year. Oh hang on, we´ll be bust by then...
3. BA have missed a trick at today´s meeting. I assume that everyone who attended was baying for a strike. Well maybe the company should have sped their path to the Jobcentre by issuing all participants at the meeting with their P45 as they walked out of the door. That would certainly help to resolve the cash-flow problem.
Bring on New Fleet and pronto.
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4468's post is very good reading for those stepping up to the plate on strike day No1. WW may assume that the most militant will be on strike, so he will know exactly who to sack and subsequently refuse to re-instate at the eventual tribunal. Trouble-makers removed at a stroke? 
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Unite...
Are calling job losses at RBS "absolute madness". Sorry mate, a computer can tell me my balance, I'm sick of spending fortunes on the phone and in bank charges so I can talk to an inept and officious pin money housewife who can barely read the instruction manual.
And the front row of the BASSA meeting. Bovvered if I never have to ask any of THAT lot for a hot towel again?
Good old Sky are telling everyone BASSA might be calling a strike on December 14th, so the ensuing flood of cancellations means they need even LESS cabin crew.
If it wasn't for the thousands of actually sensible, professional cabin crew that will be affected by these BASSA knuckle draggers, I'd be falling about laughing.
Someone needs to explain to these fools the very simple concept of supply and demand.
And the front row of the BASSA meeting. Bovvered if I never have to ask any of THAT lot for a hot towel again?
Good old Sky are telling everyone BASSA might be calling a strike on December 14th, so the ensuing flood of cancellations means they need even LESS cabin crew.
If it wasn't for the thousands of actually sensible, professional cabin crew that will be affected by these BASSA knuckle draggers, I'd be falling about laughing.
Someone needs to explain to these fools the very simple concept of supply and demand.
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4468's post is very good reading for those stepping up to the plate on strike day No1. WW may assume that the most militant will be on strike, so he will know exactly who to sack and subsequently refuse to re-instate at the eventual tribunal. Trouble-makers removed at a stroke?
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Absolutely fantastic turnout today considering thousands of supportive crew were downroute, flying, long term sick and were not alble to make IT.... People who have never been to a meeting before but arE now angry were there showing there full support. Friends texting me from downroute wanting to know every detail!!!1
WELL DONE UNITE
we want everything legally done for a strike. We don't want to make the same mistakes as the pilots did now do we??
EXCELLENT SO PROUD TO BE PART OF AN EXCELLENT UNION WORKING ALONGSIDE THE BEST CABIN CREW...
We don't have the stomach to fight... hahahaha don't think so. We are the best and we will keep out terms and conditions. The fight is far from over. We are not going to roll over. Excellent report from Sky. Went to see my friend who doesn't fly and was impressed with us. Full support from non flyers on certain websites. We are not rich and will fight to keep our terms and conditions.
p.s IT WASN'T JUST ONE GUY SHOWING SUPPORT FROM LGW THERE WERE MANY ACTUALLY.
WELL DONE UNITE
we want everything legally done for a strike. We don't want to make the same mistakes as the pilots did now do we??EXCELLENT SO PROUD TO BE PART OF AN EXCELLENT UNION WORKING ALONGSIDE THE BEST CABIN CREW...
We don't have the stomach to fight... hahahaha don't think so. We are the best and we will keep out terms and conditions. The fight is far from over. We are not going to roll over. Excellent report from Sky. Went to see my friend who doesn't fly and was impressed with us. Full support from non flyers on certain websites. We are not rich and will fight to keep our terms and conditions.
p.s IT WASN'T JUST ONE GUY SHOWING SUPPORT FROM LGW THERE WERE MANY ACTUALLY.
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I noticed the headline on Sky News tonight was "BA Cabin Crew planning Christmas misery". Ouch, and they'd been so kind to Sky letting them into the meeting, and all standing up appauding like trained monkeys when told to do so.
Don't think we are going to roll over. Passengers love us. I am constantly told that we do an amazing job with the product we have.. 
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Good luck flying chick, but watch out for the company's tactics - when they call you up to ask if you're working, when they tactically cancel and get LGW crew to fly the 777....etc
The week before Christmas is a poor time to get P45'd IMHO.
It is a VERY rocky path you are headed down
The week before Christmas is a poor time to get P45'd IMHO.
It is a VERY rocky path you are headed down
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4468: I used the question mark after my posting to be thought-provoking, the innocent lambs to the slaughter may well end up being sacked.
fc: you don't have to be rolled over, WW's tactics will split your resolve into pieces, you can be as defiant as you like, but a dismissal letter concentrates the mind wonderfully, and the Chatham Dockyard Union flag will still be roaring overhead the picket lines, I think you'll find
fc: you don't have to be rolled over, WW's tactics will split your resolve into pieces, you can be as defiant as you like, but a dismissal letter concentrates the mind wonderfully, and the Chatham Dockyard Union flag will still be roaring overhead the picket lines, I think you'll find
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Flying Chick
Are you for real?
They might love you at this very moment but not when (OR IF) you go on a ridicilous strike at Christmas. Do you really think it will be like this:
2 days before Christmas - Most flights cancelled - Terminal 5 cramped with passengers
Kid: Mummy! When are we going home?
Mummy: Not now. Our plane has been cancelled.
Kid: But mum! I want to go home to dad!
Mummy: I said no. We're going to miss Christmas with daddy because our plane isn't going anywhere! Just be quiet now and read your book.
Kid: Nooooooooo! *bursts into tears* I want to go home to daddy!
Mummy: Listen to mummy. We should cheer ourselves up instead! Do you remember what I told you earlier today? The staff are not working because they don't want to work any harder or change anything. And what else did I tell you? We love BA's Cabin Crew more than anything else, don't we? We don't care that we are not getting home from Christmas. Because we love them and they deserve this! There'll always be a Christmas next year.
gl
Are you for real?
Passengers love us. I am constantly told that we do an amazing job with the product we have..
2 days before Christmas - Most flights cancelled - Terminal 5 cramped with passengers
Kid: Mummy! When are we going home?
Mummy: Not now. Our plane has been cancelled.
Kid: But mum! I want to go home to dad!
Mummy: I said no. We're going to miss Christmas with daddy because our plane isn't going anywhere! Just be quiet now and read your book.
Kid: Nooooooooo! *bursts into tears* I want to go home to daddy!
Mummy: Listen to mummy. We should cheer ourselves up instead! Do you remember what I told you earlier today? The staff are not working because they don't want to work any harder or change anything. And what else did I tell you? We love BA's Cabin Crew more than anything else, don't we? We don't care that we are not getting home from Christmas. Because we love them and they deserve this! There'll always be a Christmas next year.
gl
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Perhaps Flying Chick is a Troll, surely no-one could swallow that much rubbish and spout it so far without wanting to incite debate! 
As to BASSA 100% I think we will be far, far from that. Take the VR and part timers out of the equation and you have lost a significant part of your 14,000. Add in LGW and the nay sayers and another big chunk is gone.
I would quite happily man a door and a bev maker whilst the worlds favorite crew make themselves comfy round a brazier. I would also be quite happy, in my pilots uniform, to explain the reasons to any of the CC's favorite passengers, who all love them, why I'm there.
Passengers on side? Over Christmas? Not a hope.
Good luck, the Job Centers are already full!
As to BASSA 100% I think we will be far, far from that. Take the VR and part timers out of the equation and you have lost a significant part of your 14,000. Add in LGW and the nay sayers and another big chunk is gone.
I would quite happily man a door and a bev maker whilst the worlds favorite crew make themselves comfy round a brazier. I would also be quite happy, in my pilots uniform, to explain the reasons to any of the CC's favorite passengers, who all love them, why I'm there.
Passengers on side? Over Christmas? Not a hope.
Good luck, the Job Centers are already full!
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Those who believe that BA crew are the best and are universally lauded by the customers are living in an unreal world. If they asked passengers flying out of LHR on particularly the Far Eastern or Gulf based airlines what they thought of BA cabin service and why they weren't flying BA they would get some very enlightening answers. There are many who simply won't travel BA because of the long standing huge variability between one trip and another. Even people on opposite sides of the cabin can be experiencing very different things and starting a journey wondering what it's going to be like today is a big turnoff.
The folk who obliged Sky by showing delight at the possibility of a strike and wrecking countless families Christmas holiday plans should be ashamed of their behaviour. If they hate their employer and their customers that much (and sadly quite a few do) they should be honest and resign.
Finally those who do get the chop as result of their/BASSA intransigence will find it a cold world out there. Few other employers are going to want to touch them,- why buy trouble or risk poor attitudes?-so they would do well to think about what the cold reality of life after BA would really look like.
The folk who obliged Sky by showing delight at the possibility of a strike and wrecking countless families Christmas holiday plans should be ashamed of their behaviour. If they hate their employer and their customers that much (and sadly quite a few do) they should be honest and resign.
Finally those who do get the chop as result of their/BASSA intransigence will find it a cold world out there. Few other employers are going to want to touch them,- why buy trouble or risk poor attitudes?-so they would do well to think about what the cold reality of life after BA would really look like.
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Doom, gloom and more doom Skylion!!
I'm sure 21 cabin crew on some of our far eastern competitors can hold a smile longer than 15 - soon to be 14 on a BA 747. However just as many pax realise thats all they get on certain carriers unlike BA crew who can also hold a conversation as well as a smile.
The drivel on here is so consistant throughout this thread. How many times were we to be beaten with a big stick by BA up to today - but it has'nt happened some of you are so sorry to see.
And finally, should there be any cancellations around the Xmas period, its Willie Walsh and gang who you should be blaming. They are paid to manage but haven't seen much of that at all.
I'm sure 21 cabin crew on some of our far eastern competitors can hold a smile longer than 15 - soon to be 14 on a BA 747. However just as many pax realise thats all they get on certain carriers unlike BA crew who can also hold a conversation as well as a smile.
The drivel on here is so consistant throughout this thread. How many times were we to be beaten with a big stick by BA up to today - but it has'nt happened some of you are so sorry to see.
And finally, should there be any cancellations around the Xmas period, its Willie Walsh and gang who you should be blaming. They are paid to manage but haven't seen much of that at all.
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flying chick said
Strange,BALPA used the same QC as BASSA are using on November the 5th, lets hope he is a bit sharper this time
WELL DONE UNITE we want everything legally done for a strike. We don't want to make the same mistakes as the pilots did now do we??