British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[Looking Up]

View From the Outside

Hi,

I'm a customer of British Airways. I'm a silver card holder (my hard-earned) and BA has always been my favourite airline.
Whether working abroad and seeing the aeroplane as my ride home or arriving at LHR/LGW and seeing the Chatham Dockyard flag as a great start to a holiday.

I've read this thread a lot; many of the 500K+ hits are mine, I think :-)

My take (FWIW) is this:

- Don't vote strike until you understand what you are striking for
- Don't vote strike until you really believe there is a net benefit
- Don't vote strike for any other reason

My sense is that there is an underlying dissatisfaction with lower and middle management in BA being exploited by private agendas.

BA: Fix your management-staff interactions.
CC: Don't rise to the bait. It's not worth it. Even if provoked. And do not accept bullying from any side.

I rely on everyone in your organisation to get me from A to B.
As a customer, my sense of the worth of a service provider is formed in many ways.
I can equally-well fly with another airline.

Good luck to all.

[fincastle84]

Tiramisu

WWW. What will IA achieve?
Welcome back to WWW. We've missed your erudite contributions to this discussion.
You are obviously keen on IA. What in your expert opinion will IA achieve, apart from even greater losses being inflicted on BA?

WWW seems to be very selective in his responses to this thread.
I think the above question is more than reasonable & yet it is completely ignored. Maybe WWW doesn't have a cogent reason for attempting to wreck a great company.

Good luck to you & your fellow LOYAL employees in your brave attempts to make people see common sense. Fly safely.

[LD12986]

Which is ironic, because as soon as some LHR crew fly a leisure route like LAS, MRU or CPT they complain how demanding the leisure pax are.

Indeed. Whilst you do get the odd corporate DYKWIA prima donna on some of the business routes, in many respects regular business travellers are quite happy to take things as they come and be left alone. As they do so many trips, they know the service routines well and that the floor area in CW needs to be clear and the CW seat has to be locked in position for take-off and landing etc etc.

It's the failures/frustrations of the service on the ground that get business travellers' backs up ("fast" track security queues, inconsistent priority boarding, bussing, lack of priority baggage-handling etc).

[ottergirl]

So, whilst every pilot can and must live under the threat of being demoted such a system doesn't apply to the CSD's/Pursers.

Actually it does. I can think of a few occasions where people have been demoted for misconduct; luckily our mistakes don't tend to jeopardise peoples lives in the same way though.

WWW seems to be very selective in his responses to this thread.
I think the above question is more than reasonable & yet it is completely ignored.

As crew it's quite possible that the poor guy/girl (how do you tell?) has had to go flying! The silent spells might just indicate he's airborne!

[fincastle84]

Ottergirl

As crew it's quite possible that the poor guy/girl (how do you tell?) has had to go flying! The silent spells might just indicate he's airborne!

But when he or she arrives home, his/ her PMs will still be available for a reply. Maybe you would like to answer the question on his/ her behalf?

[ottergirl]

I don't think any reply that I give you will be one that WWW would approve of! This will be the third CC strike of my career and I can't recall the other two gaining much at all.

Better to wait for the real deal, I'm sure he'll be back soon. The forum life is strangely addictive. Nite nite!

[HiFlyer14]

Can I suggest to all BA crew (flight and cabin) that it may be unwise to publish or discuss ASR type incidents on an open forum.

Moving swiftly on...

You're probably right, Flyer, but if BASSA had participated in meaningful talks right from the get go, perhaps these changes could have been eased in gradually?

Desertia, you have hit the nail on the head. Therein lies the problem. The Union have never asked us what we want. Whereas in the last few weeks we have had flyers through the post at a rate of knots from Unite, in the months when negotiation (I use the word very loosely) was ongoing, we received nothing, nada, niente.

So while BA was surveying us for our views, asking which of each of the issues we would accept, and which we did not, the Union did not ask our views. Of course in the much heralded February court case, BA will simply present the survey results, along with all the personal emails, demonstrating that the CREW THEMSELVES WANTED ONE CREW MEMBER OFF in order to keep their pay. And what evidence, do the Union have about what the crew want? Err.. None M'lord.

Again, just another minor oversight by the Union.....

But of course they are fully competent and know what they're doing....

Vote No.

The above represents my own personal views, and not that of BA.

[fincastle84]

Ottergirl writes:

This will be the third CC strike of my career and I can't recall the other two gaining much at all.

Thanks Ottergirl, you've answered my question in full. I guess that this will make it 3x3, that's assuming that the lemmings actually go over the cliff!

[d192049d]

So if I vote NO???

Ok so I have this ballot paper in front of me...if I vote NO...what support measures will I be offerred by BA come the day of the strike...if called?

Turning right into the crew car park access road I can just see the placard waving, egg throwing, digital camera waving hoard...the chants of scab and other such pleasantries...

Information on the airline contingency planning in this area would really help at this stage...these are worrying times on many levels not least from a personal protection standpoint.

Any thoughts....??

[Hotel Mode]

Turning right into the crew car park access road I can just see the placard waving, egg throwing, digital camera waving hoard

Picketing doesnt work like that anymore. Theres a limit to numbers and the car park is on private BAA land so cant be picketed without their permission (which will be well policed). BA will then no doubt have some method to get you to T5 unaccosted like they did at Compass the last time. The Police wont take kindly to any mass picketing or disruption at LHR, for security reasons amongst others. Thats why the Gate Gourmet lot ended up on a hillock beside one of the more minor access roads.

You wont get BA giving you their contingency plans, but they will have some.

[wobble2plank]

d192049d,

Your are correct to be concerned and to request answers. I am sure many of your more balanced colleagues will be secretly asking exactly the same question.

As Hotel Mode has alluded to the rules for picketing have changed substantially in the last few years and, after the mass hordes that were seen in the 08's, the right of someone to work irrespective of the IA views of others have to be protected.

As with every other dispute in the past BA have been very good at supporting those who wish to work including screening off buses and the crew check in areas.

All of this should be moot however as BASSA being the king of shouting 'bully' would never find its members being accused of the same over IA would it?

[Juan Tugoh]

A simple digital camera will help in these matters. With picture evidence and a formal complaint of Bullying and Harassment, BA will be forced by their own policy to investigate the complaint.

This will almost inevitably lead to a disciplinary and subsequent dismissal for the idiots who chose to behave in such a fashion. Even if what they are doing is legal it will be contrary to the relevant EG procedure. BA will be quite happy to get rid of such idiotic extremists.

Remember, it is the completely peaceful, legal demonstrations that are the hardest for the company to deal with. Good Luck to those who wish to work, goodbye to those who wish to intimidate and browbeat.

[4468]

I may of course be wrong, but I think I recall from the last cc dispute that BA arranged for crew to report at a totally different (and totally secure!) location to normal. Also as stated earlier, buses with privacy glass/screens were provided to transport crews from there to report.

BA will do everything to ensure the security of yourselves and your property if you choose to exercise your right to work during IA.

They cannot however guarantee total anonymity. Sadly, if it comes to this, don't underestimate the lengths BASSA will go to, to discover the identities of those choosing to work! And also to 'influence' their decisions! On the other hand, neither should you underestimate the numbers of your colleagues who will also wish to work! There will be many.

If it comes to actual IA (Far from certain even if there's an overwhelming 'yes' vote!) things get unpleasant for people on both sides of the divide. The only difference being that one group will retain their jobs, the others will have to rely totally on the 'solidarity' of others, risking their livelihoods to 'force' BA to reinstate them!

Unless I believed utterly in the 'cause', and trusted totally in the unselfish resolve of all those around me, it would be a complete no-brainer.

Those are the two questions every CC member should be asking themselves.

Take care out there.

[Nutjob]

4468

It's posts like yours that will become ever more relevant as the first strike date approaches. As many have indicated, those who strike will be risking everything. The very real possibility of losing your job will be a frightening and sobering prospect. As it should be - it's one heck of a gamble.

I WILL be going to work and I believe I'll be in the majority, whatever the size of the "Yes" vote. I wouldn't want to be relying on the determination of others to join me on the (very small) picket line. Many will feel the same and will decide that it's not worth the risk on the day. That could leave the militants very isolated.

Good luck. You'll need it!

[Clarified]

Flyeruk69

FlyerUK69

As for who refused to meet with who during the ACAS meetings, I very much doubt you or anyone on the forum were actually present at the time. so it boils down to who's side of the story and the rumour mill you decide to listen to and make a judgement.

Oh Dear!

According to a response by Bill Francis to a question around this issue the following took place. (source: BA cabin crew forum, 7th Oct 2009 @17.42 post number 70).

At the beginning of October BA arranged to meet at ACAS with Amicus and BASSA. This NSP had been agreed by the joint General Secretaries of Unite and Willie Walsh at an earlier meeting.
They had agreed to meet with NO preconditions (blank piece of paper). 'Unfortunately BASSA refused sit in the same room as Amicus', and '..therefore a full NSP could not be convened as agreed'.
Picture it, all the full time officers of BASSA, UNITE and AMICUS plus BA and ACAS there for 3 days trying to convene a full NSP but unable to.
Then came BA's response, saving where it believes it can and without the permission of Unite.
One day we'll look back on the run up to these events and all the missed opportunities. (Actually I am already starting to, outside looking in as I don't belong to a Union anymore).
You're quite right re. making a sound judgment about who to listen to, I trust the integrity of Bill Francis's post, he was there after all. I haven't heard any counter to the events he describes so assume it's accurate, not withstanding the legal stuff if it wasn't accurate.
Have you heard anything different from this?

[fly12345]

British Airways crew hit back online with tales of in-flight aggravation - Times Online

[Golden Ticket]

To be honest The Times is not the most unbiased publication and will pick any opportunity to stick the boot in, they've long since ceased to be the newspaper they used to be.

It all ended when they switched to tabloid format.

If you want a more balanced view take a look at the FT.com site.

They didn't report the fact that for three years the same working practices have been carried out at LGW and that many flights have operated without problems since 16th Nov.

[Hotel Mode]

If they couldnt secure the cabin sensibly then the CSD had made the breaks too long. End of story.

[deeceethree]

Correct, Hotel Mode. The rush to get to breaks is definitely a priority on long-haul these days. If some of the crew spent more time resting prior to a flight, instead of shopping until just before pick-up, they could manage far better. But ...... some people think the whole purpose of their roster is to get them to the nearest large mall.

[Jean-Lill]

Cabin Secure- It is obvious to anyone who has flown that they started the second meal service far too late for their own reasons, the purser should be asked what the reason was. On long haul flights there is no exuse for that sort of thing, they have time on their side.

Picket Line- New laws have been introduced only 5 pickets are allowed and they have to be orderly, the most they can do is look. They cannot throw eggs or shout abuse, the law does not allow it. The crew car park is about the only place they can picket outside. In the 1997 strike there were no pickets there, I worked through that strike because I was not a Bassa member at the time, I belonged to the other union who were not in dispute.

Why not go to work by the tube that day, park somewhere else and catch the tube, they cannot picket inside T5.