British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Do you all think that 3250 people turning up at Sandown Park is to support BA's cost saving plans i think not,they came to show anger at changes BA wants to impose. I'll say it once again i would rather see the company go under i can get another job, oh im not looking for a £80,000 basic perhaps im just a little more humble than you think. Terms and conditions cannot be just thrown away because some little man with 4 years service thinks he can get his little way the fight is about to start.
To take the rest of the company down, destroying the livelihoods and careers of tens of thousands of people who may not find it as easy as you to be re-employed, just because YOU can't have what YOU want seems staggeringly spiteful and self centered.
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I must say it's time to give up on this.
Anyone who can see good in destroying a company resulting in the loss of 40,000+ livelyhoods and believes that the application for their new jobs is going to look good with BA cabin crew in it has totally lost the plot. That is just the most irrational thinking I can imagine. If you all really work for BA then their recruitment process needs a major rethink.
Anyone who can see good in destroying a company resulting in the loss of 40,000+ livelyhoods and believes that the application for their new jobs is going to look good with BA cabin crew in it has totally lost the plot. That is just the most irrational thinking I can imagine. If you all really work for BA then their recruitment process needs a major rethink.
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Yes JayPee it is unlikely the government would be worried about how many crew there are on a 747. What a ridiculous comment.
The worry for the government is that the nations flag carrier could go under purely because of the stubborness of one individual. Already Gordon Brown has given up using BA jets, virtually saying they were ripped off by BA. Nothing to do with the cabin crew or other employees, but we suffer the consequencies of management decisions and incompetence as I have already listed in another post.
There is a saying in BA management circles that: success is rewarded and failure is compensated. They cannot lose, but they expect everyone else to pay for their cock-ups.
I can tell you now with absolute certainty and clarity, that if BA take on the cabin crew, they will lose. The unions will never allow this imposition to happen and the whole airline will grind to a halt as the dispute escalates. And it will get very ugly, with riot police in attendance, police on horseback driving through the lines of employees. Nothing like it will have been seen since the poll tax demonstrations, such is the depth of feeling amongst BA employees who see their livelihoods being taken away by Walsh.
And these people on the picket lines are not the Swampy's of the world or G7 anarchists, but middle class workers fighting a grave injustice. It will be mayhem.
Is it too difficut for any of you to imagine Willie Walsh in his old IALPA rep days facing imposition from Aer Lingus management. How would he have dealt with that? I tell you how, the same way we are.
Interesting times ahead.
The worry for the government is that the nations flag carrier could go under purely because of the stubborness of one individual. Already Gordon Brown has given up using BA jets, virtually saying they were ripped off by BA. Nothing to do with the cabin crew or other employees, but we suffer the consequencies of management decisions and incompetence as I have already listed in another post.
There is a saying in BA management circles that: success is rewarded and failure is compensated. They cannot lose, but they expect everyone else to pay for their cock-ups.
I can tell you now with absolute certainty and clarity, that if BA take on the cabin crew, they will lose. The unions will never allow this imposition to happen and the whole airline will grind to a halt as the dispute escalates. And it will get very ugly, with riot police in attendance, police on horseback driving through the lines of employees. Nothing like it will have been seen since the poll tax demonstrations, such is the depth of feeling amongst BA employees who see their livelihoods being taken away by Walsh.
And these people on the picket lines are not the Swampy's of the world or G7 anarchists, but middle class workers fighting a grave injustice. It will be mayhem.
Is it too difficut for any of you to imagine Willie Walsh in his old IALPA rep days facing imposition from Aer Lingus management. How would he have dealt with that? I tell you how, the same way we are.
Interesting times ahead.
Last edited by Fume Event; 4th Nov 2009 at 15:59. Reason: cna't type today
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Watersidewonker wrote:
Well, that's great for you, you've obviously got a skill set that is in high demand in one of the many sectors of the economy that is actively recruiting(???)
So, while you are sorted, having walked in to your great new job, I can only feel sorry for the vast number of crew who, although fantastic at their job, are technically unskilled labour, and have done nothing other than work for BA for many many years.
An awful lot of these crew are mums with kids at school and bills to pay. No one is going to be offering them such a flexible, well paid, essentially easy job, certainly not at the moment. The realities of the outside world will be a cold, hard shock.
So spare a thought for all your colleagues who aren't as fantastic and highly employable as you this Christmas.
I'll say it once again i would rather see the company go under i can get another job
So, while you are sorted, having walked in to your great new job, I can only feel sorry for the vast number of crew who, although fantastic at their job, are technically unskilled labour, and have done nothing other than work for BA for many many years.
An awful lot of these crew are mums with kids at school and bills to pay. No one is going to be offering them such a flexible, well paid, essentially easy job, certainly not at the moment. The realities of the outside world will be a cold, hard shock.
So spare a thought for all your colleagues who aren't as fantastic and highly employable as you this Christmas.
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Thanks for the support
I understand the anger of some people on the forum.
I am not for bringing BA down that serves no point.
The rational behind CC savings is not to do with the economic climate, it is a long term saving plan.
Since the introduction of SFG Gatwick some three years back this change has been on the cards.
I for one understand that savings have to happen it is the amount that I don’t agree with.
I feel rather disappointed by some of the comments by my colleges who I had support for during the open skies issue. Many pilots pointed out that BASSA had not recognised the implications that open skies would have on the CC community. It was suggested that we should join them in the fight.
Please understand that the CC community are a caring bunch and are willing to compromise.
We only want to protect our future in the company and liking us to other airlines is not helping.
Would our flight crew colleagues want to have the same pay and conditions as some of the low cost airlines?
I am not for bringing BA down that serves no point.
The rational behind CC savings is not to do with the economic climate, it is a long term saving plan.
Since the introduction of SFG Gatwick some three years back this change has been on the cards.
I for one understand that savings have to happen it is the amount that I don’t agree with.
I feel rather disappointed by some of the comments by my colleges who I had support for during the open skies issue. Many pilots pointed out that BASSA had not recognised the implications that open skies would have on the CC community. It was suggested that we should join them in the fight.
Please understand that the CC community are a caring bunch and are willing to compromise.
We only want to protect our future in the company and liking us to other airlines is not helping.
Would our flight crew colleagues want to have the same pay and conditions as some of the low cost airlines?
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And it will get very ugly, with riot police in attendance, police on horseback driving through the lines of employees. Nothing like it will have been seen since the poll tax demonstrations, such is the depth of feeling amongst BA employees who see their livelihoods being taken away by Walsh.
And these people on the picket lines are not the Swampy's of the world or G7 anarchists, but middle class workers fighting a grave injustice. It will be mayhem.
Yikes that's it then, we can't have middle class workers getting ugly, whatever next!
Thanks for making me laugh, great post.
And these people on the picket lines are not the Swampy's of the world or G7 anarchists, but middle class workers fighting a grave injustice. It will be mayhem.
Yikes that's it then, we can't have middle class workers getting ugly, whatever next!
Thanks for making me laugh, great post.
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Hi biteme.
Welcome. You wont get bitten I hope. The people that do are the ones that are actively proud of quoting the same tired old arguments and refusing to listen, so they can report back to crewforum. We quite understand the depth of feeling but its BASSAs intrasigence we are frustrated with.
Can I ask what is the sticking point in the proposals for you? If new fleet was ditched would you be happy to return to BAs previous savings proposal that didnt include it?
Welcome. You wont get bitten I hope. The people that do are the ones that are actively proud of quoting the same tired old arguments and refusing to listen, so they can report back to crewforum. We quite understand the depth of feeling but its BASSAs intrasigence we are frustrated with.
Can I ask what is the sticking point in the proposals for you? If new fleet was ditched would you be happy to return to BAs previous savings proposal that didnt include it?
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BB - You really have misjudged the anger coming from the crew community if you think we are just going to roll over.
I suspect its well out of your hands anyway, the courts will decide ultimately.
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Well done Fume Event i like your message.
There is a saying in BA management circles that: success is rewarded and failure is compensated. They cannot lose, but they expect everyone else to pay for their cock-ups.
I know who will lose the most and it won't be the low paid cabin crew and ground staff it will be the creamers of the company at Waterslide and a few others i dare to name ( i don't mean Cabin Crew )
There is a saying in BA management circles that: success is rewarded and failure is compensated. They cannot lose, but they expect everyone else to pay for their cock-ups.
I know who will lose the most and it won't be the low paid cabin crew and ground staff it will be the creamers of the company at Waterslide and a few others i dare to name ( i don't mean Cabin Crew )
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The main difference between OS and New Fleet is that had your daft union negotiated all those months ago, you may well have drowned it at birth.
Now it's come back, after 18 months, to haunt you.
As others have said, the courts will now decide your fate. You may win tomorrow, but I hope for your sakes that your union has very deep pockets. Should the judge find in you favour BA will appeal, and that will quite probably push any strike action past Christmas.
Your 'Counsel' cost us well over a million pounds - be careful how you tread.
BALPA did not have the luxury of negotiation with regards to OS, hence the course we took.
Now it's come back, after 18 months, to haunt you.
As others have said, the courts will now decide your fate. You may win tomorrow, but I hope for your sakes that your union has very deep pockets. Should the judge find in you favour BA will appeal, and that will quite probably push any strike action past Christmas.
Your 'Counsel' cost us well over a million pounds - be careful how you tread.
BALPA did not have the luxury of negotiation with regards to OS, hence the course we took.
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WatersideWonker,
This is why there is some animosity towards the tiny minority at BASSA who spout your relentless rubbish.
Please, tell the assembled posters, why is it that you are so special that every other department, ok one department actually, has to take bigger cuts to preserve your little world of insanity? Why should those who have chosen a different career with different responsibilities, different training and a totally different job resulting in a different (are we getting the idea yet?) pay scale, pay for you holding on to your outdated 1980's style pay agreements that don't belong in this era?
I know who will lose the most and it won't be the low paid cabin crew and ground staff it will be the creamers of the company at Waterslide and a few others i dare to name ( i don't mean Cabin Crew )
Please, tell the assembled posters, why is it that you are so special that every other department, ok one department actually, has to take bigger cuts to preserve your little world of insanity? Why should those who have chosen a different career with different responsibilities, different training and a totally different job resulting in a different (are we getting the idea yet?) pay scale, pay for you holding on to your outdated 1980's style pay agreements that don't belong in this era?
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What will happen tomorrow if it does not all go Bassa's way? Has anyone even considerd that might happen ?
One can never be 100% sure what the court will decide.
Very amusing post number 2704
I know how working with one less crew will affect you, I did the job for 36 years.
One can never be 100% sure what the court will decide.
Very amusing post number 2704
I know how working with one less crew will affect you, I did the job for 36 years.
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Leave it to the union
I for some strange reason care about our customers and am worried how far this company will degrade the service. If the problem is cash flow then why not accept a short term resolve?
I believe that WW was put in his position to do a specific job.
That was to tackle the TUs be it CC or ground services. A presentation was put to our investors a few years back and one major point was CC terms and condition being changed dramatically.
I get the fear people have about what we as a community have to do.
Understand that when you attack BASSA you attack every one that is a member. If you had been at the meetings you would understand that BASSA are more understanding than previous years. They have asked the members what we want to accept and what action we want them to take.
I know how companies tackle TUs and BA is following very old tried and tested formulas.
So I will leave the negotiations to my elected representatives as you all would faced with similar circumstances.
Please respect others and their opinions, I find some comments rather antagonistic and ill informed.
Lets all hope this turns out to be a happy ending.
Not like one in BKK though.
I believe that WW was put in his position to do a specific job.
That was to tackle the TUs be it CC or ground services. A presentation was put to our investors a few years back and one major point was CC terms and condition being changed dramatically.
I get the fear people have about what we as a community have to do.
Understand that when you attack BASSA you attack every one that is a member. If you had been at the meetings you would understand that BASSA are more understanding than previous years. They have asked the members what we want to accept and what action we want them to take.
I know how companies tackle TUs and BA is following very old tried and tested formulas.
So I will leave the negotiations to my elected representatives as you all would faced with similar circumstances.
Please respect others and their opinions, I find some comments rather antagonistic and ill informed.
Lets all hope this turns out to be a happy ending.
Not like one in BKK though.
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"holding on to your outdated 1980's style pay agreements that don't belong in this era"
In addition not all crew are on the 'old' contract. A lot of us now fly on the 'new' contract.
In addition not all crew are on the 'old' contract. A lot of us now fly on the 'new' contract.
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If the problem is cash flow then why not accept a short term resolve?
They have asked the members what we want to accept and what action we want them to take.
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My final point
Hotel Mode
I think that 3000+ at the last meeting was a major voice for an absent work force.
Do you think the figures they will save from the CC budget is fair deal?
Do you suggest that the CC to give up a good well-paid job to save the airline?
As I asked earlier would the pilot community be happy to work to the same conditions as a budget airline, No sorry 10% above the market value would be the offer.
I am convinced that this whole issue is not about any monetary figure but about breaking the TUs and our terms and conditions.
Sorry but that is my opinion, I am sure if others were in a similar position they would look at this from another perspective.
I think that 3000+ at the last meeting was a major voice for an absent work force.
Do you think the figures they will save from the CC budget is fair deal?
Do you suggest that the CC to give up a good well-paid job to save the airline?
As I asked earlier would the pilot community be happy to work to the same conditions as a budget airline, No sorry 10% above the market value would be the offer.
I am convinced that this whole issue is not about any monetary figure but about breaking the TUs and our terms and conditions.
Sorry but that is my opinion, I am sure if others were in a similar position they would look at this from another perspective.
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Do you think the figures they will save from the CC budget is fair deal?
Do you suggest that the CC to give up a good well-paid job to save the airline?
As I asked earlier would the pilot community be happy to work to the same conditions as a budget airline, No sorry 10% above the market value would be the offer.
I am convinced that this whole issue is not about any monetary figure but about breaking the TUs and our terms and conditions.