British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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I think that would be the sum claimed in damages for mounting even the shortest of strikes......wasn't it £85 million that the last threatened strike from the cabin crew cost the company?
....and that didn't even materialise....Imagine how much a 'prolonged' strike would cost Unite in damages....If it didn't have SO MUCH MONEY to throw at the worst political party this country has ever seen (Labour's largest cash donor) I'd think it's reserves may be in jeopardy from the fallout of this ill-conceived, ill-advised & ill-fated strike ballot.
-vote no please
....and that didn't even materialise....Imagine how much a 'prolonged' strike would cost Unite in damages....If it didn't have SO MUCH MONEY to throw at the worst political party this country has ever seen (Labour's largest cash donor) I'd think it's reserves may be in jeopardy from the fallout of this ill-conceived, ill-advised & ill-fated strike ballot.
-vote no please
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The claim for £67m+ damages would have been made by BA if the temporary injunction was granted and the High Court then found in BA's favour in ruling that the changes were not a breach of contract. It doesn't seem to be related to the strike ballot itself.
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I have been with BA since 1996 and been through previous ballots for a strike. I never participated in the strike in 1997 as I was fairly new at the time and actually didn't want to risk my job (some people would call me selfish). In 2007, I did vote in favour of a strike but I was still not sure as to whether I wanted to participate. The feelings are pretty much the same and there is a lot of tension amongst the crew and a lot of resentment towards BA which is understandable as the management has played a couple of nasty tricks on us in the past years. There isn't much faith and it's probably why many crew are eager to go out on a strike. When you get to briefing or on the aircraft, this is what's being discussed and the risks involved in not having any crew at D5 during the safety demo. Perhaps I'm a bit naive but surely BA would never violate any regulations to save money?
Personally, I am very much confused on how to vote. I don't mind working harder and if this can save our jobs, I'm willing to do it. I've done three trips since the imposition and it has worked well considering the change of positions and CSD being part of the service. Yes, the service in Club World takes a bit longerthan before and some of us from WT, where I usually work, have gone there to help the crew finish the service. It's only a matter of time before everybody finds their feet and know how to do it properly. The service in First, Club World (UD) and WT has not been affected whatsoever from this imposition. As for re-setting AVOD, press a couple of times on the screen. We don't need the CSD to leave the trolley to do it.
I still haven't posted my ballot paper because I am very confused as to what I should do. BASSA is determined to keep things as they always have been at any cost. Even though I'm on the old contract, pre-97, I still am willing to change a few things. The Monthly Duty Payment can be to our advantage if negotiated properly as it would be evenly spread throughout the year and we wouldn't have to be concered about our pay when we are put on 24HR because we have almost reached 900 hours. We wouldn't have to rely on those LR trips to SIN, HKG, SYD or NRT to get as much allowances as possible. Some crew haven't seen SYD for years and never received any of those payments for a long time. CAI for instance would be worth a lot more and not only a couple of pounds.
On one side, BA has been generous. They never accepted the pay cut which was offered by BASSA. They could have if they had wanted but I actually think it was a good gesture of them not to do it. They only asked for a two year pay freeze as suggested by BASSA. I can understand though that the imposition and removal of an additional PSR will lower the chances of any future promotions. Personally I'm not interested to be promoted as I like to choose whether I want to work in either CW or WT but many crew do want to get promoted to either work in First or to PSR. How will this be affected? I personally believe it will only be a matter of time until they choose to remove the PSR from First and only have one PSR to supervise WT.
If New Fleet comes through, it basically means the end to the rest of us who will not transfer and accept a new contract. I'm not being cheap but if I were to transfer to New Fleet and accept those terms I would have to accept an almost 55% pay reduction in basic salary. It wouldn't be financially possible but on the contrary I am willing to work harder, as we now do onboard, but floating around 850 hours I can't take on any more trips and this is the case with many full-time crew on WW. No offence towards the crew on EF but there could be a great improvement in regards to operations and performance. Maybe shorten down the turnaround time at CRC which in the long run means shorter working days and more time at home which is surely what most crew want? I have never done EF myself but at least that's what I would want over more than anything else.
I'm not very fond of WW or BF but I do believe that they are honest about having to make these savings. Look all over the world and see how companies are struggling financially and having to lay off staff or even going into bankrupcy. Perhaps WW and BF are twisting the truth a little but I also think that BASSA is. They were denying the recession and financial crisis and thought they would go away accordingly.
A last point. I don't think a strike is the solution as it will only affect us financially and put us in an even worse situation than what we are already in. We would need to make additional savings and who knows what sort of crew reduction and other actions that might be.
Even if I choose not to strike and the majority do go out on a strike, what's the point? Will it be to any favour for us who go to work? Surely BASSA would be wanting to find out the names of those not participating in a strike?
Sorry for this long and less meaningfull post. Any suggestions as to how I should vote would be appreciated even though it's a personal choice. Or, maybe I have made up my mindn after all? Perhaps it's time for me to do something else. I'm only 31 years old and was only meant to fly for a year anyway.
Personally, I am very much confused on how to vote. I don't mind working harder and if this can save our jobs, I'm willing to do it. I've done three trips since the imposition and it has worked well considering the change of positions and CSD being part of the service. Yes, the service in Club World takes a bit longerthan before and some of us from WT, where I usually work, have gone there to help the crew finish the service. It's only a matter of time before everybody finds their feet and know how to do it properly. The service in First, Club World (UD) and WT has not been affected whatsoever from this imposition. As for re-setting AVOD, press a couple of times on the screen. We don't need the CSD to leave the trolley to do it.
I still haven't posted my ballot paper because I am very confused as to what I should do. BASSA is determined to keep things as they always have been at any cost. Even though I'm on the old contract, pre-97, I still am willing to change a few things. The Monthly Duty Payment can be to our advantage if negotiated properly as it would be evenly spread throughout the year and we wouldn't have to be concered about our pay when we are put on 24HR because we have almost reached 900 hours. We wouldn't have to rely on those LR trips to SIN, HKG, SYD or NRT to get as much allowances as possible. Some crew haven't seen SYD for years and never received any of those payments for a long time. CAI for instance would be worth a lot more and not only a couple of pounds.
On one side, BA has been generous. They never accepted the pay cut which was offered by BASSA. They could have if they had wanted but I actually think it was a good gesture of them not to do it. They only asked for a two year pay freeze as suggested by BASSA. I can understand though that the imposition and removal of an additional PSR will lower the chances of any future promotions. Personally I'm not interested to be promoted as I like to choose whether I want to work in either CW or WT but many crew do want to get promoted to either work in First or to PSR. How will this be affected? I personally believe it will only be a matter of time until they choose to remove the PSR from First and only have one PSR to supervise WT.
If New Fleet comes through, it basically means the end to the rest of us who will not transfer and accept a new contract. I'm not being cheap but if I were to transfer to New Fleet and accept those terms I would have to accept an almost 55% pay reduction in basic salary. It wouldn't be financially possible but on the contrary I am willing to work harder, as we now do onboard, but floating around 850 hours I can't take on any more trips and this is the case with many full-time crew on WW. No offence towards the crew on EF but there could be a great improvement in regards to operations and performance. Maybe shorten down the turnaround time at CRC which in the long run means shorter working days and more time at home which is surely what most crew want? I have never done EF myself but at least that's what I would want over more than anything else.
I'm not very fond of WW or BF but I do believe that they are honest about having to make these savings. Look all over the world and see how companies are struggling financially and having to lay off staff or even going into bankrupcy. Perhaps WW and BF are twisting the truth a little but I also think that BASSA is. They were denying the recession and financial crisis and thought they would go away accordingly.
A last point. I don't think a strike is the solution as it will only affect us financially and put us in an even worse situation than what we are already in. We would need to make additional savings and who knows what sort of crew reduction and other actions that might be.
Even if I choose not to strike and the majority do go out on a strike, what's the point? Will it be to any favour for us who go to work? Surely BASSA would be wanting to find out the names of those not participating in a strike?
Sorry for this long and less meaningfull post. Any suggestions as to how I should vote would be appreciated even though it's a personal choice. Or, maybe I have made up my mindn after all? Perhaps it's time for me to do something else. I'm only 31 years old and was only meant to fly for a year anyway.
Lol!!!! I was in the throes of posting a replyl to one of Fume Events more lengthy and emotive postings, only to see Fume's post get scrubbed away very quickly by the Mods. Ah well, it remains to be seen whether Fume Event will be back soon to continue.
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Oh dear Fume!
Spin Spin Sugar!
Shame you chose to return to the forum with yet more tripe and didn't leave it long enough for us to forget that you are still avoiding answering the questions that have been asked of you.
I think your unwillingness to address them reveals what we all suspect...that the answers confirm the outrageousness of BASSA's stance against our wage payer.
These answers highlight a dark alley with a ticking time-bomb at the end of it; the alley down which you're so desperate to send your fellow colleagues, without the illumination of factual information or the protection of an honest and transparent union.
For shaaaaame!
Shame you chose to return to the forum with yet more tripe and didn't leave it long enough for us to forget that you are still avoiding answering the questions that have been asked of you.
I think your unwillingness to address them reveals what we all suspect...that the answers confirm the outrageousness of BASSA's stance against our wage payer.
These answers highlight a dark alley with a ticking time-bomb at the end of it; the alley down which you're so desperate to send your fellow colleagues, without the illumination of factual information or the protection of an honest and transparent union.
For shaaaaame!
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...or did Fume Event remove the post him/herself once he/she was rumbled as manure-mixing?!
Nope. Fume Event has gone, ceased to be, wafted away to join the choir eternal. Until he resurrects himself under another username, of course. Like before. And before....
Mods
Nope. Fume Event has gone, ceased to be, wafted away to join the choir eternal. Until he resurrects himself under another username, of course. Like before. And before....
Mods
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A.Lurker.
Interesting info, thanks.
If the debate about BA rates of pay (in comparason to EU/Rest of the World rates) is to make any progress, more facts are needed...
In the past I've spent a lot of time & effort trying to ascertain other (non-UK) arline rates of pay for Cabin Crew, and drawn a complete blank.
Some of the US carriers payscales seem to indicate a similar "top of scale" rate as BA, in terms of gross pay, but no real indication of average pay, or unit pay (approx cost "per hour flown" to the company).
For the EU airlines, I've had no luck at all.
My only feeling is that surely Unite know these details (at least for EU airlines).
If Iberia/AF/KLM/Lufthansa rates are the same as BA (or more), why aren't Unite shouting these numbers from the rooftops? (Lufthansa's average cost per unit flown is X! BA crew are only paid X - 10%!!!, for example)
So what do these airlines pay? Even if, as W2P points out, cost of living etc would be different - at least knowing the raw figures would be a start.
Without the basic data I don't see how we can really make any progress?
Perhaps some of the BASSA members who post here have some personal knowledge, or would be willing to ask their reps some questions?
Interesting info, thanks.
If the debate about BA rates of pay (in comparason to EU/Rest of the World rates) is to make any progress, more facts are needed...
In the past I've spent a lot of time & effort trying to ascertain other (non-UK) arline rates of pay for Cabin Crew, and drawn a complete blank.
Some of the US carriers payscales seem to indicate a similar "top of scale" rate as BA, in terms of gross pay, but no real indication of average pay, or unit pay (approx cost "per hour flown" to the company).
For the EU airlines, I've had no luck at all.
My only feeling is that surely Unite know these details (at least for EU airlines).
If Iberia/AF/KLM/Lufthansa rates are the same as BA (or more), why aren't Unite shouting these numbers from the rooftops? (Lufthansa's average cost per unit flown is X! BA crew are only paid X - 10%!!!, for example)
So what do these airlines pay? Even if, as W2P points out, cost of living etc would be different - at least knowing the raw figures would be a start.
Without the basic data I don't see how we can really make any progress?
Perhaps some of the BASSA members who post here have some personal knowledge, or would be willing to ask their reps some questions?
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Alexandraa,
That is the most poignant post I have read on this thread.
I re-read several times.
It's difficult beyond belief when a complex situation demands a yes/no answer.
As an outsider, I wouldn't dare to suggest a course of action. I would suggest that, being armed with all the relevant information, you follow your inclination.
Good luck!
LU
That is the most poignant post I have read on this thread.
I re-read several times.
It's difficult beyond belief when a complex situation demands a yes/no answer.
As an outsider, I wouldn't dare to suggest a course of action. I would suggest that, being armed with all the relevant information, you follow your inclination.
Good luck!
LU
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Alexandra
a mature and intelligent post which will ring true to many, perhaps most, BA crew.
You know that BA 's proposals are neither unfair, nor the end of the world for all cabin crew.
What you need, and deserve, is honest and sincere representation.
On my last trip -777 with 11 crew - they were laughing and joking around because they discovered (after a couple of drinks) that they had all voted no.
I do expect the Yes vote to be a clear majority. But what the step after that will be who knows. Hopefully Bassa will realise they have to negotiate or face a real catastrophe.
a mature and intelligent post which will ring true to many, perhaps most, BA crew.
You know that BA 's proposals are neither unfair, nor the end of the world for all cabin crew.
What you need, and deserve, is honest and sincere representation.
On my last trip -777 with 11 crew - they were laughing and joking around because they discovered (after a couple of drinks) that they had all voted no.
I do expect the Yes vote to be a clear majority. But what the step after that will be who knows. Hopefully Bassa will realise they have to negotiate or face a real catastrophe.
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Alexandra:
My heart goes out to you. It is very difficult to be placed in a situation that you didn't ask for.
All I can suggest is to think beyond a possible strike. Will BA be making any money with their aircraft sitting on the ground? Will the employees have a job if BA fails? Even if BA survives, will your loyal customers return?
Good luck & thank you for being so honest
My heart goes out to you. It is very difficult to be placed in a situation that you didn't ask for.
All I can suggest is to think beyond a possible strike. Will BA be making any money with their aircraft sitting on the ground? Will the employees have a job if BA fails? Even if BA survives, will your loyal customers return?
Good luck & thank you for being so honest
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Alexandraa, a fine post.
I've read it a few times and can understand your frustration but I think you have come to the wrong forum for advice - reading any previous page will prove that to you.
Some of your thoughts I have had but it all boils down to the future New Fleet. A No vote will help in the evolvement of this fleet which in turn, as you mention, will probably be an end to your flying career. On the other hand, a Yes vote sends out a clear message to WW/BF that we as a workforce are not happy with their latest style of imposition and suggested future of BA.
I'm sure you'll agree that even the Yes voters do not want to strike or harm the company in any way, in fact most of the Yes voters have voted this way because of their passion and loyalty for BA which many on this thread just cannot see.
You mention you have done some flights already with not much change....I have and have seen a notable drop in service to our most loyal premium pax. If you doubt me, volunteer for No6 -777 or No7 -747 on your next trip, then come back to this forum and say how it went.
Think of your first few months flying for BA back in 1996 and compare those thoughts to how you see that same job today - many changes to your outlook I think. Now think foward a few years and how will you then think about your job...and will you then think in hindsight that you wish you had voted the other way....?
I've read it a few times and can understand your frustration but I think you have come to the wrong forum for advice - reading any previous page will prove that to you.
Some of your thoughts I have had but it all boils down to the future New Fleet. A No vote will help in the evolvement of this fleet which in turn, as you mention, will probably be an end to your flying career. On the other hand, a Yes vote sends out a clear message to WW/BF that we as a workforce are not happy with their latest style of imposition and suggested future of BA.
I'm sure you'll agree that even the Yes voters do not want to strike or harm the company in any way, in fact most of the Yes voters have voted this way because of their passion and loyalty for BA which many on this thread just cannot see.
You mention you have done some flights already with not much change....I have and have seen a notable drop in service to our most loyal premium pax. If you doubt me, volunteer for No6 -777 or No7 -747 on your next trip, then come back to this forum and say how it went.
Think of your first few months flying for BA back in 1996 and compare those thoughts to how you see that same job today - many changes to your outlook I think. Now think foward a few years and how will you then think about your job...and will you then think in hindsight that you wish you had voted the other way....?
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I've read it a few times and can understand your frustration but I think you have come to the wrong forum for advice - reading any previous page will prove that to you.
And I'm sure if she takes the time to read this thread, she will be able to make a more informed decision.
Who's trying to scare who here? She might regret voting NO?
Considering all the information that is available here and not given to BASSA members by their untrustworthy union leadership, voting yes to IA would be a slap in the face that these "leaders" richly deserve - and would signal to the company that many BASSA members are willing to share in the fight to revive the company, not try and kick it when it's down just to protect their own lucrative little niches.
With these selfish individuals out of the way, BA cabin crew can find some educated, unselfish representatives who want to work with the company to the benefit of all of its employees and other stakeholders.
VOTE NO AND RESIGN FROM BASSA!
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You mention you have done some flights already with not much change....I have and have seen a notable drop in service to our most loyal premium pax. If you doubt me, volunteer for No6 -777 or No7 -747 on your next trip, then come back to this forum and say how it went.
Unless, of course, you personally are giving poor service in order to make a point?
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Fincastle84
you mentioned in reply to CFC "therefore I consider your comments to be c***!"
Firstly - personal attacks against posters is not allowed and secondly - he or she is totally correct in what he or she says - as the latest figures released by BA for October show a decrease in Customer Satisfaction in the Premium Cabins.
Firstly - personal attacks against posters is not allowed and secondly - he or she is totally correct in what he or she says - as the latest figures released by BA for October show a decrease in Customer Satisfaction in the Premium Cabins.
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the latest figures released by BA for October show a decrease in Customer Satisfaction in the Premium Cabins
Junior trash
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as the latest figures released by BA for October show a decrease in Customer Satisfaction in the Premium Cabins.
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as the latest figures released by BA for October show a decrease in Customer Satisfaction in the Premium Cabins.
Here are just a couple of comments from the numerous threads, shocking!
Originally Posted by Jess Fletcher
I spoke with a number of passengers during the service & explained in some detail why this new service was being introduced. They gave their full support to us & several commented, that that was now no difference between the flag carrier & the low cost airlines.
Originally Posted by u-pack-u-stack
encourage the pax to fill a comment card on the flight ensuring all flight details are on it. photo copy it and give BASSA a copy before you put in the mailbox in crc. explain to pax that change will never happen if they don't complain!!
Originally Posted by Psioneer
We're only telling it like it is, how we feel, why we're no longer going "the extra mile", why BA can no longer rely on our "goodwill" to cover up their failings.
If pax want to see it as "...a bit like a low-key dirty protest" then so be it.
Hello! we are in dispute with our employers!!!
If pax want to see it as "...a bit like a low-key dirty protest" then so be it.
Hello! we are in dispute with our employers!!!
Originally Posted by NJR@D1L
As per many posts on here.STICK TO THE STANDARDS/ROUTINES LAID DOWN BA and let it **uking fall to bits.
Stop trying to make it work.If we do then they'll take another crew member off next year and where will it stop?.
If you are one of the MUPPETS posting on the DARKSIDE.......STOP giving them suggestions and clues on how this can work.WAKE UP FOR **** SAKE.YOU ARE KILLING OUR JOB!!
More importantly,if you are one of the kiss ass CSD's,why can you not smell the coffee?.Stick to your trolley,leave the IFE for 3 hours,stop running crew round the aircraft to help BA get away with this IMPOSITON.Why are you doing it?,more brownie points at your next review?.Again.WAKE UP!!
As above keep these reports rolling in for weeks to come.I can assure you these will not just be seen as teething problems they will be long term.They will not go away.
Can I urge all CSD's to just give each galley a load of comments forms to hand out for complaints,as you do not have time to deal with passengers for ten minutes at a time.Please take any left over comments forms and save them for 'big' complaint days.
I have collected over 300 comments form and will be giving each crew member a couple each at the briefing.
I will not have time to say hello to First and Golds,reset IFE for 2-3 hours and as for IFA's on Pursers,well sorry as I'm doing the Purser role myself together with many other things I just won't have time will I!!
Stop trying to make it work.If we do then they'll take another crew member off next year and where will it stop?.
If you are one of the MUPPETS posting on the DARKSIDE.......STOP giving them suggestions and clues on how this can work.WAKE UP FOR **** SAKE.YOU ARE KILLING OUR JOB!!
More importantly,if you are one of the kiss ass CSD's,why can you not smell the coffee?.Stick to your trolley,leave the IFE for 3 hours,stop running crew round the aircraft to help BA get away with this IMPOSITON.Why are you doing it?,more brownie points at your next review?.Again.WAKE UP!!
As above keep these reports rolling in for weeks to come.I can assure you these will not just be seen as teething problems they will be long term.They will not go away.
Can I urge all CSD's to just give each galley a load of comments forms to hand out for complaints,as you do not have time to deal with passengers for ten minutes at a time.Please take any left over comments forms and save them for 'big' complaint days.
I have collected over 300 comments form and will be giving each crew member a couple each at the briefing.
I will not have time to say hello to First and Golds,reset IFE for 2-3 hours and as for IFA's on Pursers,well sorry as I'm doing the Purser role myself together with many other things I just won't have time will I!!