Qantas; the thread.
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mam
yes there are certainly a lot of casuals who work much more than they should. making themselves available when non req, but also sucking up to crewing.
unfortunately there are always gng to be people who will break the rules ie- working more than 6 days straight, doing duties that are just not legal!!!!!
people know who they are, and these people must remember that casuals are exactly the same as permanents, so stick to the rules!!!
you are just ruining it for yourselves, and other casuals for permanent employment
final note, i wouldnt hold your breathe re full time employment qf have a trick up their sleeve for casuals closer to the end of the year. if i was u i would be lookin for a 2nd job!
unfortunately there are always gng to be people who will break the rules ie- working more than 6 days straight, doing duties that are just not legal!!!!!
people know who they are, and these people must remember that casuals are exactly the same as permanents, so stick to the rules!!!
you are just ruining it for yourselves, and other casuals for permanent employment
final note, i wouldnt hold your breathe re full time employment qf have a trick up their sleeve for casuals closer to the end of the year. if i was u i would be lookin for a 2nd job!
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Gomam,
me too re the financial problems!
you able to give us some more details? it would certainly be appreciated. i do have another job but its bcoming increasingly difficult to keep my other bosses happy bcos of the 12 days thing- so i have been considering just giving it away (my other job that is) its not the best job in the world (bit boring) so no great loss to leave, but its close to home and the pay is not bad....now im wondering wot Qantas has hidden up there sleeve???? if you know about something in the works can you share it with us?
i really cant understand this morally corrupt/secretive/hidden agenda, attitude that some companies have in dealing with honest, hard working employees?
andie74
me too re the financial problems!
you able to give us some more details? it would certainly be appreciated. i do have another job but its bcoming increasingly difficult to keep my other bosses happy bcos of the 12 days thing- so i have been considering just giving it away (my other job that is) its not the best job in the world (bit boring) so no great loss to leave, but its close to home and the pay is not bad....now im wondering wot Qantas has hidden up there sleeve???? if you know about something in the works can you share it with us?
i really cant understand this morally corrupt/secretive/hidden agenda, attitude that some companies have in dealing with honest, hard working employees?
andie74
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Hmmm,
Well I think we would all like to know. It is not like we work for MAM coz we are rich and bored and need a job to stimulate our minds. We work coz this is the job we want and we do it for the money.
So if there is something that Q A N T A S and MAM have planned, well it's better we all know now, so we can prepare for it.
Don't be shy in coming forward with info.
Bizzi
Well I think we would all like to know. It is not like we work for MAM coz we are rich and bored and need a job to stimulate our minds. We work coz this is the job we want and we do it for the money.
So if there is something that Q A N T A S and MAM have planned, well it's better we all know now, so we can prepare for it.
Don't be shy in coming forward with info.
Bizzi
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I have no problem making myself AV when I am put down NREQ. I have to make a living and have bills and rent to pay. Majority of the time I get called up anyway. I also have no problem ringing up crewing and asking them for work, I want them to know my name and know that I am ready to work at the drop of a hat. The EBA is coming up soon anyway so maybe that will bring a few answers about, along with the FAAA MAM meetings next month. Since it has been so quiet lately, you really have to do what you have to do to get work, people should stop making others feel guilty about doing it. This month has been very slow, and I know a heap of single mothers with 2 or more kids that are suffering as a result of it.
Just a thought.
amongthestars
Just a thought.
amongthestars
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Maybe Goman is referring to a new clause QF want in the next EBA, which is being discussed at present. No new permanent recruitment into Short Haul. This clause will clearly effect MAM casuals as there will NEVER be an opportunity for permanent employment (which of course you were all made fully aware of when you applied), furthermore this will effect junior crew in terms of bidding. But if this clause gets in it will be voted up, just like the dropping of the time zone restriction and any other amendments QF wish to make to the short haul EBA.
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how Australian business works
"Ex Qantas chairman Gary Pemberton was today asked about his spectacular success with the Billabong surfwear company.
"Look, James Strong and I initiated the business strategy of ripping the guts out of a once great Australian company. Our philosophy was basically - sell off the farm ,the family silver and all the employees. Taking costs out of the business rather than growing it was our philosophy.
This unimaginative business philosophy still holds true today. Australian senior mannagement are too stupid to generate profits so we generate our bonuses from cannabilising past successes. These days, senior manangement would much prefer to sit around drinking red wine and humming Peter Allen tunes.
Under the present Qantas management team , the plan is still to remove all 39,000 employee jobs offshore.
Now that ultimately translates into 39,000 UNEMPLOYED AUSTRALIANS. And what do you do when you're unemployed in this great country?? YOU GO TO THE BEACH!!
To do that you need good quality swimwear.
Enter Billabong . A win / win for the shrewd businessman!"
Another example of great Australian business practices at work......
"Look, James Strong and I initiated the business strategy of ripping the guts out of a once great Australian company. Our philosophy was basically - sell off the farm ,the family silver and all the employees. Taking costs out of the business rather than growing it was our philosophy.
This unimaginative business philosophy still holds true today. Australian senior mannagement are too stupid to generate profits so we generate our bonuses from cannabilising past successes. These days, senior manangement would much prefer to sit around drinking red wine and humming Peter Allen tunes.
Under the present Qantas management team , the plan is still to remove all 39,000 employee jobs offshore.
Now that ultimately translates into 39,000 UNEMPLOYED AUSTRALIANS. And what do you do when you're unemployed in this great country?? YOU GO TO THE BEACH!!
To do that you need good quality swimwear.
Enter Billabong . A win / win for the shrewd businessman!"
Another example of great Australian business practices at work......
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galley hag sometimes your contributions are interesting to read and other times you just cant help but show a catty side. qantas has ,depending on when you apply always told casuals that this will lead to full time employment. in the case of some new casuals only an indication has been entered into and then followed by an application form in the mail to invite you to apply for full time employment.........qantas appear to like to play staff off each other so i guess your exactly what they want. m8 not everyone can do the join eastern thing,although i do think everyone loves flying and what they do and to that end being a casual flight attendant does not mean your instantly a scab looser or of inferior intelligence....try droping your attitude. happy landings gigs
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hey hey
hey gigs
i think that galleyhag is on the mark. sorry there. But GH is always full of great information, and she is a great help as well. i dont think she referred that casuals are scab labour at all!
most new people circa 2003/04 where told its only casual it will never lead to full time. yes there are some who were told it may lead to full time, but was never put into the contract!
anyways just my 2 cents, if they make u non req keep it that way i say. they will ring if they need u
otherwise u could always go to another airline which offers permanent employment. QF aint the be all and end all, im sorry to say, and people need to start realising this!
i think that galleyhag is on the mark. sorry there. But GH is always full of great information, and she is a great help as well. i dont think she referred that casuals are scab labour at all!
most new people circa 2003/04 where told its only casual it will never lead to full time. yes there are some who were told it may lead to full time, but was never put into the contract!
anyways just my 2 cents, if they make u non req keep it that way i say. they will ring if they need u
otherwise u could always go to another airline which offers permanent employment. QF aint the be all and end all, im sorry to say, and people need to start realising this!
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that contribution has really helped enlighten me thanx so much nic from mel..................what is it your actually trying to say?......are forget it but..i can say that we all have a different percepion of reality and your opinion is yours.regretfuly we all have to live in reality.written word and verbal word all have a say in contract etc etc. incidentaly in so far as your saying almost like it or leave it well thats great isnt it...good luck to you im sure your post was meant in a positive manner and you do whatever, whatever! your employer instructs you to. cheers gigs
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It continues
This topic has finally been given the attention it has always deserved.
Just to point out, that even though yes many of us from the 2003/2004 intake where told that our position was casual and would not lead to full time employment. One has to be realistic and understand that in the bigger scheme of things, the following has occured despite what Q A N T A S has previously said :
* 32 MAM casuals commence full time employment July 1 2005
* New MAM casuals in 2005, where told that after 12 months with MAM, that they are invited to submit an expression of interest / apply for full time employment.
* Current MAM casuals have been sent letters of expression of interest for full time, for the new financial year.
Yes, now before you all start freaking and getting ready for the POST REPLY button.
The point I'm intending to make is that this is proof that Q A N T A S has said one thing and yet doing another. And we know this is the theme of the Giant Roo, and I'm not for one minute suggesting that more full time positions will come about, but to ease the negativity that people keep posting re: MAM.
Yes, crew are worried about the amount of hours available and they have ever right to, let them post their concern here after all we should be using this as support forum to provide information and to share experience of the situation.
Now on the topic of changing status from NREQ to AV. After talking to crewing, I was told that NREQ status means that you will not considered if work is available, it's not like when we first started when they where understaffed. There is a lot of crew on the books, and making yourself AV is the only way to pick up work when you need it. I have tended to pick up work on AV days and you need to have a business perspective understanding to the whole equation.
Yes QF makes you NREQ 7 days out as they forecast not requiring crew, but we all know the nature of the business. They can not then turn around 2 days out and change your status once things change, because what system could they use, who would they choose to change status??.
Afterall the crew member they may pick to change to AV SPAN may have decided to pick up work at their 2nd job because they are NREQ (if they have one) and therefore create more work for crewing to have to find a suitable available crew member. So look at it realistically, they need surplus of crew and keep their budget in check, so they can only work with what they know and that is the pool of crew who have chosen AV status. Forecasting is one of the most difficult things to do especially when dealing with people, as there is many factors at play, schedules, sick leave, delayed flights, aircraft upgrades etc. They can only factor so much in 7 days out on your availability.
So to further expand on that point above. To keep your job casual and to allow you to have flexibility to work another job, then we want to keep the NREQ status and the freedom to change to AV. If we loose that, that will further restrict us. We have to work with the way the business operates.
I wish people would keep this forum as a positive way to express concern rather than a negative bashing of Q A N T A S and MAM.
Bizzi
Just to point out, that even though yes many of us from the 2003/2004 intake where told that our position was casual and would not lead to full time employment. One has to be realistic and understand that in the bigger scheme of things, the following has occured despite what Q A N T A S has previously said :
* 32 MAM casuals commence full time employment July 1 2005
* New MAM casuals in 2005, where told that after 12 months with MAM, that they are invited to submit an expression of interest / apply for full time employment.
* Current MAM casuals have been sent letters of expression of interest for full time, for the new financial year.
Yes, now before you all start freaking and getting ready for the POST REPLY button.
The point I'm intending to make is that this is proof that Q A N T A S has said one thing and yet doing another. And we know this is the theme of the Giant Roo, and I'm not for one minute suggesting that more full time positions will come about, but to ease the negativity that people keep posting re: MAM.
Yes, crew are worried about the amount of hours available and they have ever right to, let them post their concern here after all we should be using this as support forum to provide information and to share experience of the situation.
Now on the topic of changing status from NREQ to AV. After talking to crewing, I was told that NREQ status means that you will not considered if work is available, it's not like when we first started when they where understaffed. There is a lot of crew on the books, and making yourself AV is the only way to pick up work when you need it. I have tended to pick up work on AV days and you need to have a business perspective understanding to the whole equation.
Yes QF makes you NREQ 7 days out as they forecast not requiring crew, but we all know the nature of the business. They can not then turn around 2 days out and change your status once things change, because what system could they use, who would they choose to change status??.
Afterall the crew member they may pick to change to AV SPAN may have decided to pick up work at their 2nd job because they are NREQ (if they have one) and therefore create more work for crewing to have to find a suitable available crew member. So look at it realistically, they need surplus of crew and keep their budget in check, so they can only work with what they know and that is the pool of crew who have chosen AV status. Forecasting is one of the most difficult things to do especially when dealing with people, as there is many factors at play, schedules, sick leave, delayed flights, aircraft upgrades etc. They can only factor so much in 7 days out on your availability.
So to further expand on that point above. To keep your job casual and to allow you to have flexibility to work another job, then we want to keep the NREQ status and the freedom to change to AV. If we loose that, that will further restrict us. We have to work with the way the business operates.
I wish people would keep this forum as a positive way to express concern rather than a negative bashing of Q A N T A S and MAM.
Bizzi
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Hi!
"i'd wait to do your security check until they actually want to employ you."
Jesski, if you haven't done your security check, they won't want to employ you, you won't get to that stage, they'll just choose people that have already done all of that stuff and are just waiting for the call. I would get it done.
Unfortunately the $$$ side of it is just a part of the whole process. It's just annoying that some groups that have gone through haven't had to pay a cent for medicals and security clearances while the next group has, but its just luck of the draw i guess.
Good luck!
Oz
"i'd wait to do your security check until they actually want to employ you."
Jesski, if you haven't done your security check, they won't want to employ you, you won't get to that stage, they'll just choose people that have already done all of that stuff and are just waiting for the call. I would get it done.
Unfortunately the $$$ side of it is just a part of the whole process. It's just annoying that some groups that have gone through haven't had to pay a cent for medicals and security clearances while the next group has, but its just luck of the draw i guess.
Good luck!
Oz
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gigs
I apologise if you took offence to my post it certainly was not intended to offend.
However the reality and facts are that you are employed by an external labour hire company as a casual flight attendant. Qantas at no stage would ever guarantee that you would be offered permanent employment. If you wanted a position as a permanent flight attendant maybe you should have applied to an airline that offers such opportunities I dont think you are in a position to complain you would have clearly known when you joined MAM what the position involved and the MAM website states:
"Flexibility is the key to becoming a Casual Flight Attendant.You are required to be on-call 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. This will obviously include weekends and public holidays (Christmas and Easter). There is no guarantee of hours, as these will be determined by flight demand and existing staffing levels. This will often occur at short notice."
(amongthestars, maybe those single mothers should have paid careful attention to the section that stated no guarantee of hours before they signed the contract.)
As I have stated before the last time permanent positions were made available in short haul was early 2003. Now two and half years later they are making available a further 32 positions. So the chances of ever obtaining a permanent position are slim, more so once the governement takes control of the senate and industrial relation reform occurs.
Just for your reference I started with Eastern as I refused to take a casual or fixed term position and remained on the Qantas short list. After the collapse of Ansett I was offered a permanent position with Qantas. That was my choice as I wanted a career as a flight attendant, which is not possible when you are a casual.
I apologise if you took offence to my post it certainly was not intended to offend.
However the reality and facts are that you are employed by an external labour hire company as a casual flight attendant. Qantas at no stage would ever guarantee that you would be offered permanent employment. If you wanted a position as a permanent flight attendant maybe you should have applied to an airline that offers such opportunities I dont think you are in a position to complain you would have clearly known when you joined MAM what the position involved and the MAM website states:
"Flexibility is the key to becoming a Casual Flight Attendant.You are required to be on-call 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. This will obviously include weekends and public holidays (Christmas and Easter). There is no guarantee of hours, as these will be determined by flight demand and existing staffing levels. This will often occur at short notice."
(amongthestars, maybe those single mothers should have paid careful attention to the section that stated no guarantee of hours before they signed the contract.)
As I have stated before the last time permanent positions were made available in short haul was early 2003. Now two and half years later they are making available a further 32 positions. So the chances of ever obtaining a permanent position are slim, more so once the governement takes control of the senate and industrial relation reform occurs.
Just for your reference I started with Eastern as I refused to take a casual or fixed term position and remained on the Qantas short list. After the collapse of Ansett I was offered a permanent position with Qantas. That was my choice as I wanted a career as a flight attendant, which is not possible when you are a casual.
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great post bizzi but i guess as nic from mel puts it we should look for a full time job with another airline then when a problem of federal award level proportions happens we should then look for a full time job at another airline then if a problem with our conditions cramp our style we should look for a job at another airline. but we shouldnt even be here because as galley hag says "never stict his head out for a mam casual".good one, so positive.......if only thier powers were to be used for good then maybe things would be better and casual employment would not continue to denude the conditions of full time employees.
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Gigs,
I understand your point, BUT I refuse to look at working for another airline. I enjoy the product of Q A N T A S. I like our destinations, I enjoy delivering the service, I like the flexibility of being able to working J or Y class. Varied aircraft. In one day you can easily work on 3 different aircraft types. And may I add, overall being casual works for me. I refuse to let ppl make MAM out to be negative.
Both MAM and Q A N T A S are running a business, the business of staffing flights and they need casual crew for flexibility. This is a testing time we are in. And it annoys me when full timers bag out our situation. Some compassion would be appreciated, WE knew what causal meant, WE understand our contract, WE know what the MAM websites states. People who post on this forum to degrade our intelligence about our choice to work for MAM, your comments are of no assistance and I urge you to refrain from negativitity.
We are just using this forum as a way to express concern and to hear how others are dealing with the situation.
Remember that MAM casuals tend to be the most appreciative crew, given we accept what duties we get, what ever destinations they give us. I could open up a whole bag of worms about how much full timers complain about their roster, how many overnights, how many regionals etc. The nature of crew is so negative, spare a thought for those who are willing to work. That is what we are, willing and able when it is available.
It is quite amazing to hear so many CSM's praise casuals for their efforts at work, and their positive attitudes. I don't think I need to expand on that one at all.
Bizzi
I understand your point, BUT I refuse to look at working for another airline. I enjoy the product of Q A N T A S. I like our destinations, I enjoy delivering the service, I like the flexibility of being able to working J or Y class. Varied aircraft. In one day you can easily work on 3 different aircraft types. And may I add, overall being casual works for me. I refuse to let ppl make MAM out to be negative.
Both MAM and Q A N T A S are running a business, the business of staffing flights and they need casual crew for flexibility. This is a testing time we are in. And it annoys me when full timers bag out our situation. Some compassion would be appreciated, WE knew what causal meant, WE understand our contract, WE know what the MAM websites states. People who post on this forum to degrade our intelligence about our choice to work for MAM, your comments are of no assistance and I urge you to refrain from negativitity.
We are just using this forum as a way to express concern and to hear how others are dealing with the situation.
Remember that MAM casuals tend to be the most appreciative crew, given we accept what duties we get, what ever destinations they give us. I could open up a whole bag of worms about how much full timers complain about their roster, how many overnights, how many regionals etc. The nature of crew is so negative, spare a thought for those who are willing to work. That is what we are, willing and able when it is available.
It is quite amazing to hear so many CSM's praise casuals for their efforts at work, and their positive attitudes. I don't think I need to expand on that one at all.
Bizzi
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g/hag subject of discussion is 48hrs av means you should be able to change it when ever you want//this is backed so far from my reaserch by law...........for your info g/hag ive twice declined a selection process for full time as i dont want to relocate..........im not,therefore, complaining about my type of employment only my conditions that is all this thread is about............in initial interview m.alex...this for many of my staff has lead to full time......qantas in training school......youll be full time in 6 mths..........interview for fultime a little while latter....sorry took over southern......letter follows mam casuals shall always be the feeder for full time.....interviews for per then as you say latter in a few yrs interviews for per .this year letter to invite you to apply for full time....now not withstanding anything to the contray i think there is a message here......this for your info and,as stated im happy with casual pls try to be articulate and see the big picture its conditions here and we affect yours big time. cheers gigs oh and no offence at all taken.
Last edited by gigs; 21st Jun 2005 at 09:35.
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OK I can see where this discussion is headed, the poor hard done by casual crew and the whinging permanent crew.
I have very few problems with MAM casuals on board but it never ceases to amaze me on prune that the only people that think they do a good job are MAM casuals, Auckland, Bangkok and London based crew a bit of a pattern developing here in your own minds I think. I never see any real difference in the level of service or committment between permanent and casual crew.
Your conditions are not my problem as I choose not to go that road, therefore I will leave it at that.
I have very few problems with MAM casuals on board but it never ceases to amaze me on prune that the only people that think they do a good job are MAM casuals, Auckland, Bangkok and London based crew a bit of a pattern developing here in your own minds I think. I never see any real difference in the level of service or committment between permanent and casual crew.
Your conditions are not my problem as I choose not to go that road, therefore I will leave it at that.
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even as a csm as your posts indicate our working conditions could well still at some time be a problem for you galley hag i dont whinge either my posts are to invite positive feed back from other folk to assist me in my situation you still appear to show attitude and a divide and well leave it at that..cheers gigs
Last edited by gigs; 21st Jun 2005 at 11:19.
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hmmm
gigs
it wasnt a stab at u or anyone ok so if i offended im sorry. I know of a few people who decided not to whinge and instead have been proactive and interviewed with other airlines, and now are working as permanent employees.
Thing is its just not virgin blue that is here in australia, there are many overseas as well u know.
i wish u all the best with the application for "possible future employment with the qantas group"
it wasnt a stab at u or anyone ok so if i offended im sorry. I know of a few people who decided not to whinge and instead have been proactive and interviewed with other airlines, and now are working as permanent employees.
Thing is its just not virgin blue that is here in australia, there are many overseas as well u know.
i wish u all the best with the application for "possible future employment with the qantas group"