Qantas; the thread.
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nicky you dont offend the only thing you are telling me i dont know is what your "whingeing" friends have done.........again this is like eps ie. read the question! this thread is about a situation that exists for casual employees which requires them to provide a service to their employer( who they are very happy working for) in a unique situation for no valuable consideration.ie a legal term meaning in this case nothing.an airline who can achieve free reserve will affect all even the great galley hag!............so all i can see here is that you and others are imparting their views on casual airline employment while that airline sneaks in more bad stuff......something many permanent staff complain about but,is obvious here how it happens....ie..you and many like you are out of their depth......... where did you read or assume that i had applied or,ever appied for full time gainfull employment with qantas to wish me luck with that application???? the only other major issue really discussed here has been the fair and equal distribution of work.something that perm.staff have a process for we,dont and with all due respect to all 3 parties can be at times counter productive for each involved for a variety of reasons....i hope this places something into your head that this is not about your opinion of what casual employment is or what casuals want need or expect from that employment ... as stated to g/hag try to be articulate and read the posts your assumptions are showing you to look foolish. cheers gig
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keep it coming
must say f module a rather good sense of humor badly needed in todays qf environment. management has rather been quit lately so lets see who is left standing after july
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QANTAS/AO/QFLINK=here We Go.....
QANTAS had reportedly started axing jobs ahead of a possible profit downgrade this week.
Fairfax newspapers reported 14 QantasLink check-in staff at Newcastle Airport were told they would be out of jobs in two weeks on Monday after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to baggage handler Skystar.
Talk has mounted that Australia's biggest airline has plans to cut thousands of jobs and expand its overseas staff base in a bid to cut costs.
The Australian Services Union says the Newcastle job losses could be the start of a large job culling program.
And the talk of a profit downgrade has increased with Qantas chief financial officer Peter Gregg arranging an analysts briefing on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards
########### AO HAVENT EVEN SIGNED THEIR EBA AND THEY ARE PLANNING THE OVERSEAS BASES, THE ARROGANCE IS INCREDIBLE.........#########
Fairfax newspapers reported 14 QantasLink check-in staff at Newcastle Airport were told they would be out of jobs in two weeks on Monday after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to baggage handler Skystar.
Talk has mounted that Australia's biggest airline has plans to cut thousands of jobs and expand its overseas staff base in a bid to cut costs.
The Australian Services Union says the Newcastle job losses could be the start of a large job culling program.
And the talk of a profit downgrade has increased with Qantas chief financial officer Peter Gregg arranging an analysts briefing on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards
########### AO HAVENT EVEN SIGNED THEIR EBA AND THEY ARE PLANNING THE OVERSEAS BASES, THE ARROGANCE IS INCREDIBLE.........#########
Last edited by tow-truck; 22nd Jun 2005 at 00:05.
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Some further info
Downgrade, lay-offs ahead at Qantas
By Scott Rochfort
June 22, 2000
Qantas has already started laying off permanent staff as speculation mounts the airline could issue a profit downgrade as early as Friday.
As talk mounts that the airline has plans to slash thousands of jobs and expand its overseas labour base in order to cut costs, unions have already accused Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon of breaking his pledge that the expansion of Jetstar would not result in job losses at Qantas.
On Monday, 14 QantasLink check-in staff in Newcastle were told they could be out of a job within two weeks after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to its baggage handler at the airport, Skystar.
"All 14 of those have been met with and advised that we will work with them as to who's redundant and whether any of them have an interest of redeployment within the group," said Qantas's general manager of people, Kevin Brown.
Mr Brown denied Qantas had broken its pledge that no jobs would be lost as a result of Jetstar.
"What we said to the unions nearly 14 months ago was that Jetstar during start-up would not result in the loss of jobs in Qantas.
"Now here we are 14 months on from that commitment and you know it is a mature business. It's flying, it's growing, and naturally, in some locations, as parts grow and shrink and grow elsewhere, you're going to have those transition points.
"We're transitioning, the result of that is that not everything fits as neatly as it might," he said.
Mr Brown said Qantas "never said jobs would not be lost over time" after Jetstar's introduction.
But Australian Services Union assistant national secretary Linda White said Qantas had broken its word. "All the promises made about nobody in Qantas being made redundant is a farce," she said.
Ms White also warned the loss of 14 QantasLink staff in Newcastle could be the start of a larging culling process.
"It's the thin end of the wedge. First it's Newcastle and then it's everywhere else. The promises we had have basically gone out the window."
Labor's federal member for Newcastle, Sharon Grierson, said the outsourcing of check-in staff by Jetstar could represent a major risk to security.
"If these people [Skystar staff] are going to get paid such lousy money, what confidence can we have that these people are really going to deliver."
Chances of a potential profit downgrade by Qantas have been heightened by the airline's chief financial officer Peter Gregg pencilling in a briefing with analysts on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards.
Macquarie Equities issued a note two weeks ago warning that the airline could face a $700 million write-down from changes in how it treated its frequent flyer scheme on its books. It also said it "would not be overly surprising" if the airline was hit with a $100 million-$150 million redundancy bill.
Qantas is also expected to score a major breakthrough in its bid to hire more lower-paid Asian staff through its Australian Airlines subsidiary next week. The airline's 310 cabin crew are expected to vote for a deal next Wednesday which will allow the airline to access foreign crews.
When asked about Qantas's plans to source Asian labour, Qantas's Kevin Brown said: "We shouldn't be constrained given our network of where we fly, and given what our competitors have available to them …
Calling Qantas's approach to unions as "firm but fair and definitely tough", Mr Brown said: "We have to create a competitive business that'll create job security."
Check before you fly
- Fears of Qantas profit downgrade as soon as Friday
- QantasLink loses Jetstar check-in contract in Newcastle; 14 face redundancy
- Airline unions' nationwide day of action on Monday
- Qantas says line on unions "firm but fair and definitely tough"
- Australian Airlines flight attendants expected to vote for agreement next week to allow airline to access foreign crews freely
By Scott Rochfort
June 22, 2000
Qantas has already started laying off permanent staff as speculation mounts the airline could issue a profit downgrade as early as Friday.
As talk mounts that the airline has plans to slash thousands of jobs and expand its overseas labour base in order to cut costs, unions have already accused Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon of breaking his pledge that the expansion of Jetstar would not result in job losses at Qantas.
On Monday, 14 QantasLink check-in staff in Newcastle were told they could be out of a job within two weeks after Jetstar outsourced its passenger service contract to its baggage handler at the airport, Skystar.
"All 14 of those have been met with and advised that we will work with them as to who's redundant and whether any of them have an interest of redeployment within the group," said Qantas's general manager of people, Kevin Brown.
Mr Brown denied Qantas had broken its pledge that no jobs would be lost as a result of Jetstar.
"What we said to the unions nearly 14 months ago was that Jetstar during start-up would not result in the loss of jobs in Qantas.
"Now here we are 14 months on from that commitment and you know it is a mature business. It's flying, it's growing, and naturally, in some locations, as parts grow and shrink and grow elsewhere, you're going to have those transition points.
"We're transitioning, the result of that is that not everything fits as neatly as it might," he said.
Mr Brown said Qantas "never said jobs would not be lost over time" after Jetstar's introduction.
But Australian Services Union assistant national secretary Linda White said Qantas had broken its word. "All the promises made about nobody in Qantas being made redundant is a farce," she said.
Ms White also warned the loss of 14 QantasLink staff in Newcastle could be the start of a larging culling process.
"It's the thin end of the wedge. First it's Newcastle and then it's everywhere else. The promises we had have basically gone out the window."
Labor's federal member for Newcastle, Sharon Grierson, said the outsourcing of check-in staff by Jetstar could represent a major risk to security.
"If these people [Skystar staff] are going to get paid such lousy money, what confidence can we have that these people are really going to deliver."
Chances of a potential profit downgrade by Qantas have been heightened by the airline's chief financial officer Peter Gregg pencilling in a briefing with analysts on Friday on International Financial Reporting Standards.
Macquarie Equities issued a note two weeks ago warning that the airline could face a $700 million write-down from changes in how it treated its frequent flyer scheme on its books. It also said it "would not be overly surprising" if the airline was hit with a $100 million-$150 million redundancy bill.
Qantas is also expected to score a major breakthrough in its bid to hire more lower-paid Asian staff through its Australian Airlines subsidiary next week. The airline's 310 cabin crew are expected to vote for a deal next Wednesday which will allow the airline to access foreign crews.
When asked about Qantas's plans to source Asian labour, Qantas's Kevin Brown said: "We shouldn't be constrained given our network of where we fly, and given what our competitors have available to them …
Calling Qantas's approach to unions as "firm but fair and definitely tough", Mr Brown said: "We have to create a competitive business that'll create job security."
Check before you fly
- Fears of Qantas profit downgrade as soon as Friday
- QantasLink loses Jetstar check-in contract in Newcastle; 14 face redundancy
- Airline unions' nationwide day of action on Monday
- Qantas says line on unions "firm but fair and definitely tough"
- Australian Airlines flight attendants expected to vote for agreement next week to allow airline to access foreign crews freely
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issues
hey gigs
yes i understand your frustration re the allocation of work, it is easy for this to be organised with full timers.
unfortunately with the casuals its not so easy, and im sure in the faaa meeting next month this issue should be brought up. IT doesnt make sense that some people are still doing 120+hours per month, and others are doing only 40 hours.
it could be that some people are making themselves more available then others, but i dont think that matters this month, as most people are being made non req.
i hope i am making senseeeeee!
yes i understand your frustration re the allocation of work, it is easy for this to be organised with full timers.
unfortunately with the casuals its not so easy, and im sure in the faaa meeting next month this issue should be brought up. IT doesnt make sense that some people are still doing 120+hours per month, and others are doing only 40 hours.
it could be that some people are making themselves more available then others, but i dont think that matters this month, as most people are being made non req.
i hope i am making senseeeeee!
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I totally agree NO bonus payments should be made when people are loosing their jobs.
I also feel this is a sign of things to come. If QF announce a profit downgrade this will be their excuse to lay-off even more staff which has always been on their wish list anyway.
Im not surprised the Qantaslink staff at Newcastle have been let go, between eastern and sunstate we have very few flights through this port now and Jet* have always had their own ground staff therefore this announcement shouldnt come as a shock.
I also feel this is a sign of things to come. If QF announce a profit downgrade this will be their excuse to lay-off even more staff which has always been on their wish list anyway.
Im not surprised the Qantaslink staff at Newcastle have been let go, between eastern and sunstate we have very few flights through this port now and Jet* have always had their own ground staff therefore this announcement shouldnt come as a shock.
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Easternboy - The staff at NTL airport actually wear both the QF and JQ uniform. They check-in both airlines and just change uniforms depending on what they are allocated that day.
The new ground contract for NTL is with Skystar who will provide their own staff.
This will leave only a couple of the 14 staff employed by QF/JQ left to despatch and checkin the QFLINK services.
The new ground contract for NTL is with Skystar who will provide their own staff.
This will leave only a couple of the 14 staff employed by QF/JQ left to despatch and checkin the QFLINK services.
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Oh ok wasnt aware of that.
Still with the reduced number of QFLink services Im not surprised they are sourcing a cheaper option for ground handling out of this port, just like they did in Sydney, Melbourne etc
Still with the reduced number of QFLink services Im not surprised they are sourcing a cheaper option for ground handling out of this port, just like they did in Sydney, Melbourne etc
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yeah i wholeheartedly agree- the allocation of hours really does need to be addressed by the FAAA. i dont see how its a fair & equitable system when particularly this month you dont even get work on your mandatory days? i was made NREQ for 2 of the 3 mandatory days, and i know that others have been given work on those days when its not their mandatory days?? - not their problem of course, but doesnt make sense why crewing would do this?
also anyone able to clarify this? i thought the trade off for Casuals being required to give 12 days min, with 3 of those being mandatory, was that we were supposed to be given AV spans for at least those 12 days?? i cant remember where or why ive got this into my head??? others have said no thats not the case- and so i guess i must've got it wrong?? ive checked the contract etc and it doesnt state it in there either- anyone know for certain?
gigs im like you -also happy with casual employment as i mentioned in a previous post, and definitely not beating down anyones door desparate for full time work! i choose in my last job to move from perm to casual bcos it suits me better.
this job and the people are great! am 100% happy to be casual and pick my own days off, being able to work a 4 day week when i want to and know that i can spend time with my partner/friends/family suits me just fine. for me work is not the be-all and end all!
however wots becoming increasingly frustrating is the inconsistancy and the inequality that appears to be going on- and id feel exactly the same no matter wot job i was doing with any other company if i was being treated the same way. its an awfully simplified way to look at things to simply say to people "well you knew you were agreeing to a casual job so if you dont like it - go look elsewhere".
Being casual is one thing..... being taken advantage of is another. isnt this what industrial relations is based on?? not allowing employers to just do what they like when they like. its is NOT ok for ANY company to tell you one thing then do another. i dont understand why anyone would be happy to see a fellow worker be it casual/full-time/part-time be taken advantage of- standing up for yourself isnt whinging. looking at the bigger picture- surely if they can do wot they like with casuals, eventually it has to have a follow on effect and will somehow affect everyones working conditions?
its too easy for people to say "stop whinging" to others in this thread- since when is expecting your employer to treat you with a little respect and fairness whinging?
andie74
also anyone able to clarify this? i thought the trade off for Casuals being required to give 12 days min, with 3 of those being mandatory, was that we were supposed to be given AV spans for at least those 12 days?? i cant remember where or why ive got this into my head??? others have said no thats not the case- and so i guess i must've got it wrong?? ive checked the contract etc and it doesnt state it in there either- anyone know for certain?
gigs im like you -also happy with casual employment as i mentioned in a previous post, and definitely not beating down anyones door desparate for full time work! i choose in my last job to move from perm to casual bcos it suits me better.
this job and the people are great! am 100% happy to be casual and pick my own days off, being able to work a 4 day week when i want to and know that i can spend time with my partner/friends/family suits me just fine. for me work is not the be-all and end all!
however wots becoming increasingly frustrating is the inconsistancy and the inequality that appears to be going on- and id feel exactly the same no matter wot job i was doing with any other company if i was being treated the same way. its an awfully simplified way to look at things to simply say to people "well you knew you were agreeing to a casual job so if you dont like it - go look elsewhere".
Being casual is one thing..... being taken advantage of is another. isnt this what industrial relations is based on?? not allowing employers to just do what they like when they like. its is NOT ok for ANY company to tell you one thing then do another. i dont understand why anyone would be happy to see a fellow worker be it casual/full-time/part-time be taken advantage of- standing up for yourself isnt whinging. looking at the bigger picture- surely if they can do wot they like with casuals, eventually it has to have a follow on effect and will somehow affect everyones working conditions?
its too easy for people to say "stop whinging" to others in this thread- since when is expecting your employer to treat you with a little respect and fairness whinging?
andie74
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andie74: re question of 12 day obligation
i had the same query as you. During my initial training i was told by 'MAM' that QF would prefer our casual job with them to be our main source of income as your main job is the one u r more loyal to. In turn, they realised they needed to provide us with something in return ie. 12 days with min 4 hrs duty
not sooo apparently!!! After querying with crewing and then with MAM, we must provide 12 days however on those 12 days we could be assigned a duty, AV span or not req. However we must have a duty on our mandatory 3 days...which that doesnt seem to be happening either! lets hope next month with school hols and new financial year that hours increase yet again, otherwise time to start scouring mycareer.com
i had the same query as you. During my initial training i was told by 'MAM' that QF would prefer our casual job with them to be our main source of income as your main job is the one u r more loyal to. In turn, they realised they needed to provide us with something in return ie. 12 days with min 4 hrs duty
not sooo apparently!!! After querying with crewing and then with MAM, we must provide 12 days however on those 12 days we could be assigned a duty, AV span or not req. However we must have a duty on our mandatory 3 days...which that doesnt seem to be happening either! lets hope next month with school hols and new financial year that hours increase yet again, otherwise time to start scouring mycareer.com
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thanks flying elvis.
glad to hear im not going crazy! i was pretty certain i had heard it said about supposedly getting a min 4hrs pay on the 12 min days.....and so much for getting work on your mandatory days eh!
andie74
glad to hear im not going crazy! i was pretty certain i had heard it said about supposedly getting a min 4hrs pay on the 12 min days.....and so much for getting work on your mandatory days eh!
andie74
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Still with the reduced number of QFLink services Im not surprised they are sourcing a cheaper option for ground handling out of this port, just like they did in Sydney, Melbourne etc
Since Eastern started in Melbourne they have:
- Contracted Aerocare to despatch aircraft (QF CSOs did it before) - although this may now be cheaper with the QF segmentation.
- contracted Aerocare to clean aircraft on turnaround (Southern crew did them selves)
- contracted Aerocare to marshall aircraft as apparently everybody forgot where the gates were when eastern took over.
Real cheap mate.
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Hi,
I'm a MAM casual in sydney and I have heard that we have to give Qantas 12 days AV a month. However if it is a quiet month Qantas doesn't have to give us any work for the whole month if they want to. They can make us NON AV the whole month!! Don't think it would come to that though.
I think there isn't that much work this month because the 40% of regional flying has gone to Long Haul this month. They are doing most of our Perth returns and Cairns overnights.
Apparently Maurice has been asking Qantas for the last year to give the casuals notice when it is a quiet month so that we can plan holidays or other jobs etc around this time. I guess Qantas doesn't want to say this incase its busy and then they have no casuas!
Did notice the sneaky A4 piece of paper they put up near our mailboxes last week telling us to stop calling crewing about NON AV days and that this month as well as Dec/Jan is always a quiet period!
Letsfly
I'm a MAM casual in sydney and I have heard that we have to give Qantas 12 days AV a month. However if it is a quiet month Qantas doesn't have to give us any work for the whole month if they want to. They can make us NON AV the whole month!! Don't think it would come to that though.
I think there isn't that much work this month because the 40% of regional flying has gone to Long Haul this month. They are doing most of our Perth returns and Cairns overnights.
Apparently Maurice has been asking Qantas for the last year to give the casuals notice when it is a quiet month so that we can plan holidays or other jobs etc around this time. I guess Qantas doesn't want to say this incase its busy and then they have no casuas!
Did notice the sneaky A4 piece of paper they put up near our mailboxes last week telling us to stop calling crewing about NON AV days and that this month as well as Dec/Jan is always a quiet period!
Letsfly
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Sky News are reporting tonight Anderson has one final concern about the Aviation industry and that is the future of Qantas. He is concerned because Qantas does not have enough access to European ports. This surprises me considering Qantas has withdrawn from Rome and Paris in the last couple of years and increased capacity to London.
It bothers me a little though that the current transport minister is concerned for the future of the airline I work for, if he is worried should we be?
Who knows we could all be working for Singapore Air in 5 years.
It bothers me a little though that the current transport minister is concerned for the future of the airline I work for, if he is worried should we be?
Who knows we could all be working for Singapore Air in 5 years.
Last edited by GalleyHag; 23rd Jun 2005 at 10:56.
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Yes "Letsfly", I saw the sneaky piece of A4 paper with that message next to our mailboxes.
When I read it, it annoyed me I tell you. I thought it was an insult. I understood the msg, but thought it was not called for in the manner it was written.
Some casuals complained to John Mills and if you have noticed it is not longer on the wall near our mailboxes.
Hmm.
Hours starting to pick up, hang in there kids.
Happy landing.
Bizzi
When I read it, it annoyed me I tell you. I thought it was an insult. I understood the msg, but thought it was not called for in the manner it was written.
Some casuals complained to John Mills and if you have noticed it is not longer on the wall near our mailboxes.
Hmm.
Hours starting to pick up, hang in there kids.
Happy landing.
Bizzi
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The problem is that the faaa is not intersted in any media action .
So the question is "what are we prepared to do about it"
With no financial or other support from the faaa ,how about a website?
Instead of responding to antagonistic posts let's come up with ideas! otherwise the company has won.
So the question is "what are we prepared to do about it"
With no financial or other support from the faaa ,how about a website?
Instead of responding to antagonistic posts let's come up with ideas! otherwise the company has won.
Last edited by lowerlobe; 25th Jun 2005 at 09:17.
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More flights
Qantas has announced extra flights to Johannesburg and Shanghai - will this assist with bringing down the over staffing in long haul that has been mentioned previously?
Wasn't sure where to put this question so just popped it here - hope you don't mind
Wasn't sure where to put this question so just popped it here - hope you don't mind