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Qantas; the thread.

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Qantas; the thread.

Old 13th Jun 2005, 07:18
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There are no longhaul MAM casuals.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 07:36
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.....and sometimes no meal at all because our wonderful leaders decided to UNDERCATER flights in order to save more money.

Argus - The said at a recent forum they will not be offering volantary redundancies as they haven't budgeted for it. There are hundreds of crew who can't wait for a package to be offered so they can get out before things get any worse.

Offering a package would cost money and therefore affect the 'managers' bonuses. So what they have done is forced hundreds of crew to go on leave etc. as there is no flying for anyone in Australia because the Kiwis, Thai's and POMS are doing it all.

What will happen in a few months when everyone has exhausted all their leave and the company has hundreds of crew sitting at home on reserve/low line (being paid) with no flying for them?

It really is time a change of 'morons' at QCC.

PS. How many concerned crew here have bothered to write to the press / MP's about the exportation of our jobs?

I send email to them everyday, so far the press haven't printed a thing. Its amazing what the ad buying power of a corporation can do!
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 07:53
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str,

Could not agree more!

Have you seen the latest from the faaa? any thoughts?

Which media have you tried to contact? I was thinking of the telegraph as they are keen or seem to be keen to criticise QF.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 07:57
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Given that the "idiot son" has been strategically placed on the qf board I wouldnt bother with any of the packer owned press.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:01
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I think your right with us getting no sympathy from the Packer owned media.

How about Tightslot's idea of a web page ,initially I thought it would not work but maybe it might just get some publicity,look at crikey.com
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:18
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There are crew coming to the end of their contract in the next month or so. From what I have been told they have not been offered renewal for the contract or permanent work for the future. They have been asked to hand back their uniforms and Asics. They are not Mam contractors.

Currently long haul are overstaffed and are trying to use up the annual leave bank to help alleviate the situation.

I wish all the contract crew good luck and hope they find themselves employment soon.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:19
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Negotiation..QF Style

QF management start at point A.Employees start at point ZED and then compromise to point A...QF management happy!!!
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:21
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Surely theres scope for some creative negotiation here.

Each side has something that the other side wants.

With the common ground thus established, you need a negotiation strategy to get what you want, without conceding too much from the other side.

Start with trying to establish some reasoned communication with the other side.

Look at longer term cost savings - a subject dear to any manager's heart.

And the serious talking is done behind closed doors, not through the media.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:26
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the problem with negotiations is to have someone to negotiate for you,is anyone else unhappy with the current direction the faaa is taking?
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 08:56
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Ah............qf are overstaffed with longhaul Australian based FA because much of our traditional flying has been leached to shorthaul.

This situation has been exacerbated by recent increases in overseas based employment.

Australian based crew are being forced to take long service leave by management in an effort to make the books looks better as unused LSL sits as a liability on the ledger.

Executive performance bonuses are at stake.

Jettlager
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 09:40
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Marsha,

I'm sorry to see so many good Australian based FAs let go in favour of overseas based crew.

The disease that afflicts qf is the, "management performance bonus."

It stifles investment in planes and equipment and guarantees that a short term approach to decision making is taken at all levels of [mis]management.

I seriously doubt that qf will ever hire permanent FAs ever again. Certainly not given the direction of the PRESENT federal government.

Why hire Australians, who you have to pay a living wage when you can hire offshore and do otherwise???

Jettlager
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 11:57
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I'm very unhappy with the current FAAA reps. They seem to be more interested in AO's conditions than long haul.

I cancelled my membership with them last year after the farce EBA was agreed to without any consultation with the crew. I suggest if you are not happy with them you do the same, they are running a business (in some respects) and without funds coming in from members they will struggle. If they see members cancelling maybe they will take action and change direction.

Just call and tell them you want to cancel - 1800 267 952 - if they ask why tell them exactly how you are feeling.

I've contacted the Australian and the SMH mainly because they recently ran stories that QF have threatened to send 3000 jobs overseas unless they get their own way. I've also written to members of parliment on both sides, on Labour seem interested as they are the only ones who reply. The Libs obviously have anything with the word QANTAS in it set to go to SPAM folder automatically!!

A website would be easy to set up, I used to be a web site designer in a previous life! However, I was thinking maybe a chain email would be a start.

Not sure how to word it but basically we could voice our concerns that QF are sending jobs offshore and over 100 crew just lost their jobs to English people. Pass it onto everyone at Qantas.com.au email domains and get as many names as possible. Once it gets to several thousand (which I think we could manage) pass it onto Dixon and his cronies

[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

Whats your thoughts on starting something like that off?
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 14:54
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I hope this post is as balanced as I can make it. Just my reflections on the london base. A bit of history,I was an 11 month contractor,who's only choice to get full time employment with qantas was to move to london for two years. It was a hard choice,but as others have mentioned I would be unemployed as the guys I trained with are now if I hadn't taken the two year contract. Some would say blackmail,and it feels like it at times.

I think peanut pusher is being a bit over the top about how great london is. He or she may be having the time of his/her life,but it isnt all roses. Already I am very homesick,and a lot of the crew are tired and sick.

The crew are mostly great,some of the new ones are taking a long time just to get tha basics happening and it gets a bit tiring having to carry several people on every sector. The flying is ok,not much different to working out of Australia. It is funny watching all the younger ones from both Australia and the UK making fools of themselves at slip ports! The clothes the girls wear and the the amount of drinking they do! Some of them are going to get into a bit of trouble down line I think!

Its kind of a strange base,depends on who your csm& css is on the trips. Its clearly divided,the short haul csms are all very strict,they wont even let us have a glass of wine on the bus! There are rumours of crew having discipline action taken against them for doing it! I know I was only long haul for a year out of australia, but I always had a drink with the crew on the bus on every trip! It kind of takes away a lot of the fun,a lot of the fun isnt here in the new base. You just learn to ignore those csms and keep out of their way. Haven't seen one room party since I have been here! The british crew are all very clicky and dont seem to mix with us from australia that much. I think maybe cos they only hired girls out of here there are only about 5 local british boys hired out of all of them that I know of. From experience the boys are always the ones driving the social stuff in slip ports!

The long slips are great though,just got back from 4 days in Hong Kong, the new hotel is great! The 31 and 32 are even worse than they used to be,as sometimes there is only you who knows what they are doing! The 32 is a long flight home! We also have 4 day slips in singapore, they are great as a lot of the crew go out there and I get to see friends from sydney. The 32 hour slips in bangkok are a bit hard, but there is only so much you can do there!

Meeting the Sydney crew at the aircraft is kind of strange, even people I knew before I left have been rude to me. Sometimes I cannot believe how rude these crew are to fellow crew,and it makes me sad. Do they not realise some of our choices were to come here or get sacked? There doesnt seem to be a lot of compassion from sydney crews,it all seems to be about them! But a lot of them just get on and say hi and go about their business. The thai crew are a mixed bunch,some bag sydney crew to us,others argue constantly with the css,and some are nice.

Living in london isnt as expensive as everyone said. The rent is hideous but the day to day living is ok. I dont know how the local hired crew do it without the relocation allowance though. The food here is terrible,and I have put on so much weight! Yes there was one girl who got fired for going on holiday on sick leave. A lot of crew seem to be in trouble up here,everyone talks about people who have been in trouble. The office people here are all nice to your face,but everyone knows they are very quick to pull you up on the smallest things. I just try to avoid them by coming in to the office as close to sign on as I can.

Overall I am content for the time being,but cannot wait to get back home. The two years cannot go quick enough for me!

This is only my view on my base. It isnt all good, and it isnt all bad. The people who say it's all bad obviously aren't here,and the people who say it's all good are just trying to defend it.

It's just another base.
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Old 13th Jun 2005, 21:00
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As I have mentioned before,we live in a free world and can make decisions that we feel are best for us.

Unfortunately that is also our achilles heel.

the company does a superb job of divide and conquer ,using jobs and other enticements to further their goals.these continual cuts in emplyees conditions is not about returns to the share holder,the share price has not gone up one cent,it is about bonuses for those on the board

I understand the frustration of people looking for a job and I think it is disgraceful the way QF treats employees and also people they are hiring.

A number of people went to LHR and AKL because that is the only way they could get a job with QF and were told that by QF and I bet most are hoping that they will get a job when they return and for their sake ,I hope they are correct .I believe that if there is a vacancy then people should be hired full time not to be used as QF thinks fit on a contract and not to be used as a pawn in their game when it suits them.

For Longhaul crew to be told that if they did not accept an increase in working hours and a decrease in conditions with the flying to JFK then QF would replace them with foreign crew is nothing short of immoral and the faaa went along with that under the guise that they are protecting our jobs!!!!! What the ****

You can't blame those locals that apply for a job in one of the bases ,they are only looking for as job and do not know the politics being played at home.

I think there should be a concerted publicity camapign to show the public the problems that will happen if this MO of Australian companies is allowed to continue.

What will happen next,checkout girls at supermarkets brought to Australia on 11 month contracts,doctors from the sub continent..the list could go on until the only people employed in Australia are the ones on boards of companies.

the faaa has recommended that AO crew accept the pre-conditions set out by AO and vote when everone in the industry can see what QF is doing to both Longhaul and short haul by playing them of against each other and opening up bases all over the place.

Can you imagine what will happen to the flying lines and reserve of existing AO crew when they get unlimited bases with NO cap.

And all we get from the faaa is a newsletter that sounds like it was written by GD himself.

A friend talked to AS at the faaa the other day and AS laughed at the suggestion of a media campaign.So can we call for an extra-ordinary meeting of the faaa and put up a vote of NO confidence,perhaps we should pay a little more and hire a legal team with experience not ACTU apprentices who seem to be out manouvered at every step..?

Last edited by lowerlobe; 13th Jun 2005 at 21:41.
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 03:28
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Cart Elevator

Thanks for the update on London, that was very interesting. Interesting about the ex short haul CSM's not letting you drink on the bus. I know what Id be saying if they told me I couldn't have a beer on the bus after an 18-hour tour of duty (go forth and multiply!) They must be ex Melbourne CSM's (the most anal morons on the planet) Unfortunately the flying is only going to get harder in the coming months. The long slip in HKG will go when they start the 4th weekly service in November and the QF 15/16 will increase shortly too cutting out any decent slip time in SIN. Qantas was smart in starting the base in the summer months over there. Wait until the 6 month winter sets in and the sick leave starts spiraling! Hopefully the whole thing will collapse and you can come and start flying out of Oz again!
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 09:40
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Pro Golfer 69,

I read this part of your post with interest:

"Interesting about the ex short haul CSM's not letting you drink on the bus. I know what Id be saying if they told me I couldn't have a beer on the bus after an 18-hour tour of duty (go forth and multiply!) They must be ex Melbourne CSM's (the most anal morons on the planet)"
Without wanting to sound 'anal', here are the following problems associated with drinking the bus (and no, I'm not a short haul CSM):
1) You are in uniform. Doesn't matter if you're at work, on duty, or otherwise, you are 'seen' by the public to be at work. Just like a police officer would be naturally deemed to be 'at work' if they wore their uniform.

What - you don't get seen by the public? No windows on your bus then? What about when you have to walk through the hotel lobby? Think QF wants a set of boozy crew tumbling through the lobby?

Whilst I have no doubt that after a long duty you all DESERVE a drink (as we all do), couldn't you at least wait till you got into the room? Or better still, wait for other crew to join you in any room for a good old fashioned room party? In the privacy of your hotel room, no one knows what you get up to (unless, of course, you invite the general public IN )

2) Drinking in uniform - in ANY airline - is verboten (except maybe Aeroflot, but that's another story...) Even going so far as to be seen PURCHASING booze in a liquor store is enough, in most airlines, to be given a reprimand.

Apparently - airline crew don't drink (that's the image airlines want to portray) - this, despite the fact, that most of management's actions these days DRIVE US TO DRINK!

Back to the topic at hand (hic)...

Fact is, if any CSM pulled you up on this, they WOULD BE IN THE RIGHT TO DO SO! And don't think they wouldn't report you for it - for it is this reason why they enforce this requirement - to save their own skin!

How do I know this?

Well...let me tell you a story...

I used to work for Air NZ as ground staff (years ago - but not much has changed). With time, I got to know many of the Long Haul characters that made up the Intl flights - both 'anal' and otherwise.

One day, I met an arriving flt in and once all passengers had disembarked, the ISD (Air NZ's version of CSM) asked me over. She explained that a passenger was not upgraded ex AKL with his u/g certificate, even though a seat was available.

I said "Why didn't you upgrade him onboard?"

She said, "Oh I'm not allowed to - anyway, my job is worth more to me than that!"

"What do you mean?"
"Well, I'd risk getting dobbed in for it"
"Huh?"
"That's right. The opportunities for promotion are so limited here (this was pre-2001) that other crew will dob you in for the slightest infraction so that it releases a new ISD position on board"

This story was relayed to me a number of times (citing various stories) by both ISD's and ISC's (CSS) over the years. Both from those who were cautious, and those who weren't and got demoted/punished.

SO - at the risk of sounding like a nagging mother - look over your shoulder Pro Golfer 69. Be careful. The good old days of flying are gone, as cart elevator indicates here:

"A lot of crew seem to be in trouble up here,everyone talks about people who have been in trouble. The office people here are all nice to your face,but everyone knows they are very quick to pull you up on the smallest things. I just try to avoid them by coming in to the office as close to sign on as I can."
Do we have to like it? No - of course not. But why risk putting ourselves in a position where we risk being attacked - if not by management, then by our 'colleagues'?
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 09:52
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So we can't have a beer on the bus [that we have paid for] after a long day at the office for fear of being dobbed in by one of our own "brown nosing ladder climbers".

How completely and utterly pathetic.

It begs the question. How do the ex shortlaul CSMs cope with the actions of our thirsty tech crew given that we share transport on occasions?

Jettlager
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 11:11
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Jettlager

I don't agree with it, but sadly - that's the way of life now. In the drive to climb the ladder (so to speak), people will do whatever it takes to get ahead.

I was only lamenting this the other day to my colleagues about how selfish and nasty society in general has become - not least of which in the workplace. Funnily enough, this attitude has existed at management level (in all industries) for many years - perhaps, only now, it's starting to filter down to those of us doing the hard work as we all duck for cover to protect our jobs?

Re: the Tech Crew...they're next on the block. New QF Second Officers have already been told that they'll be based in Singapore - the thin end of the wedge perhaps? Who would have thought all those years ago that the AKL and BKK bases would have swelled offshore labour to the extent that Cabin Crew have now?

It's all in D&G Reporting Points. How true this is, I don't know...but their terms and conditions, much like ours, are very much threatened. Because there's more Cabin Crew than Tech Crew (naturally), we have a bigger impact on the numbers in terms of hotels, allowances, leave accruals, etc. because there are more of us. That, and we have a greater proportion of Cabin Crew Managers chasing performance bonuses left right and centre than compared with pilot counterparts.

One thing I don't understand though - what did you mean re:
"So we can't have a beer on the bus [that we have paid for] after a long day at the office..."
We have paid for?? Maybe it's the Sav Blanc, but I don't understand?!

As I've said before - I don't agree with it either. That doesn't, however, negate the possible threat to my employment.

Pathetic? God yes!
A Real Risk? Absolutely!
Can I do anything about it? Not a chance.

The times have changed - and not for the better either.
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 11:42
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We Have Paid...

Qf Crew are able to purchase alcohol from onboard stores.Another way of QF generating revenue
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Old 14th Jun 2005, 11:59
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Mr Seatback 2,

what I meant was that crew drinking beer on the bus to the hotel will have paid for the beer and hold a reciept from the duty free seller.

I've NEVER heard of a longhaul SYD based CSM having a problem with the, "one can sector".
What happens under the direction of "power trippers" at other bases I can only guess.

Having said that I would suggest that in Brisbane a beer on the bus would be compulsary.

Attacks on our conditions/culture and lifestyle I can expect to come from management.

Why after all would qantas want happy, cheerful and relaxed staff............?

Its a sad day however, when we live and work in fear of our own.

Jettlager
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