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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Radgirl 26th Dec 2021 11:38

doesnt stop you getting it - no but reduces risk that exposure leads to infection

doesnt stop you transmitting it - we used to agree but data in November shows vaccination halves risk of transmission

doesnt negate the need for wearing masks - nothing to do with science. Masks are a political decision and few politicians have any scientific knowledge. I agree, cloth masks and FFP2 masks have little and possibly no effect. In hospitals all staff and patients should wear FFP3 or N95 masks because hospitals have been a major source of infection

doesnt negate the need for testing - no because vaccines were developed to halve the risk of hospitalisation or death NOT infection, and testing reduced cross infection. Different strands to control. I could be persuaded that with Omicron we should stop testing and mix whereupon the wave would finish in 4-6 weeks with less economic damage. Just need to protect the immunosupressed

Only works for 6 months then you need a booster - long term I suspect it will be annual.....like flu vaccination. Indeed covid 19 may well replace or supplant flu so no change in number of vaccinations

In short an abject failure - if you are referring to the politicians or the modellers or the scare mongers then I agree. If you are talking about the dozen or so poor vaccines then I agree. If you are talking about Uger Sahin who is responsible for the mRNA vaccines (with his own money) then no these vaccines have possibly saved a million lives, will be modified within 90 days for future mutations and the technology is already being developed for oncology. Another million women's lives will be extended this decade due to avoiding death from gynaelogical cancers alone.

43Inches 26th Dec 2021 21:45


Originally Posted by Icarus2001 (Post 11160337)
Which is the very definition of unhealthy is it not!

Managed diabetes, asthma, hypertension etc can all exist in a healthy person that may well be more healthy than any of us, ie the management puts the person back to that of a healthy individual who is well aware of their problems. Add a disease that attacks the lungs and heart and combined with these conditions and that same person may become critically ill or die due to complications. More than likely you will know numerous people with diabetes, asthma or hypertension that just don't talk about it, but manage it quietly, the later being very common in anyone over 50. Like mental illnesses few people that have lived with these conditions let everyone know they have it.

Talking about comorbidity like they are some small portion of the community, and somehow most likely that persons choice or lifestyle results shows a lot of ignorance to how prevalent these conditions are and how they manifest.


Please, keep speaking up for the anti Vaxxers….they are a dying breed.
And that is the entire point, they are dying, not the vaccinated, and we are trying to sway their opinions so they don't lead others down the same garden path of delusion and death. It's sad to hear 70 years olds worried about what will happen to them in 20/30 years from a vaccine when the virus will kill you now, or a pregnant woman worried about her unborn child when the vaccine is proven to do no harm at all to pregnancy yet the virus has killed thousands of expectant mothers due to their low immunity, I personally know 2 that passed with child (both early 30s) as a result of not being vaccinated and contracting covid, the science is solid, the data is there in mass numbers, and not being vaccinated is stupider than smoking or drinking during pregnancy.

Now that being said we are moving into a phase of the virus now where its harm rate, of omicron, has dropped significantly, especially for the vaccinated. That doesn't mean you cant still get delta, however the high case numbers are mostly the new, low severity version. You still don't want to catch it, like flu or any other disease, but like Victoria and NSW are showing the case numbers are rising, but hospitalisation and deaths are steady. The need for closed borders has ended, vaccination rates are high, systems are prepared, just wear masks and practice good hygiene and don't hug and kiss strangers and lick windows (or other fixtures) and you should be fine.

BTW I do think the spread difference between NSW and Vic is directly related to mask policy.

WingNut60 26th Dec 2021 22:29


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11161172)
.......................the need for closed borders has ended, vaccination rates are high.......

Except that. if in my age group bracket, the vaccination that you received is now deemed to be damned near useless and, because of factors unfathomable, you will not be able to get a booster for another month.
That despite the government-run campaign exhorting us to "just go and get a booster".

Whenever the word "just" is used in a promotion you can safely presume that it's a crock.

43Inches 26th Dec 2021 23:15


Except that. if in my age group bracket, the vaccination that you received is now deemed to be damned near useless and, because of factors unfathomable, you will not be able to get a booster for another month.
That despite the government-run campaign exhorting us to "just go and get a booster".
I'm in the 'at risk' group as well, my folks are well into the high risk age group and so on being well over 60 and some in their 80s. The vaccine does not 'stop working' at 5-6 months, it just starts to reduce in effectiveness, so where it had 90% protection it might drop to 60% protection, the booster just kicks it back up to higher levels. Really just depends on what you consider acceptable protection for the circumstance. If Omicron is as docile as stated then even with 50% protection it probably would stop any severe infection, just the problem if you encounter any remaining delta, which is still circulating in Melbourne.

43Inches 26th Dec 2021 23:31

I'm not adding this to make fun of the individual, but to highlight that it's still a very dangerous virus to dice with. Part of fighting any virus is to alleviate the stress on the body while it copes naturally, which is what part of the focus of treatment is. This guy thought his strength and fitness would carry him through with some oxygen, but the stress on his body led to cardiac arrest and death. Which is a common way it can end you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rged-dies.html

Get vaccinated, and if you need to be in hospital, go there and let them help.

WingNut60 26th Dec 2021 23:51


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11161187)
I'm in the 'at risk' group as well, my folks are well into the high risk age group and so on being well over 60 and some in their 80s. The vaccine does not 'stop working' at 5-6 months, it just starts to reduce in effectiveness, so where it had 90% protection it might drop to 60% protection, the booster just kicks it back up to higher levels. Really just depends on what you consider acceptable protection for the circumstance. If Omicron is as docile as stated then even with 50% protection(that one depends on who you believe also) it probably would stop any severe infection, just the problem if you encounter any remaining delta, which is still circulating in Melbourne.

Quite a few real & implied "probabilities" in your surmise.
And being, like your parents, in the high risk age group I am not at all impressed by a national directive to "just get vaccinated" when the same government will not allow me to do so.

Atagi 24 Dec

  • ATAGI recommends bringing forward the minimum interval between the primary course and the booster dose from 5 months to 4 months as soon as practical, noting the holiday period. It is understood that this is achievable from 4 January, although some providers may have flexibility to administer before that time.
  • In addition, as soon as practicalities allow, ATAGI recommends providing boosters to all eligible adults from a minimum of 3 months following the second dose of the primary course.

.....and the practicality is that the earliest that I can get a booster is 5-1/2 months after my last A-Z shot.

I can't help but suspect (strongly suspect) that either the vaccine, hardware or resources for administering same are simply not available.
But hey, you won't win a federal election by admitting that.



Australopithecus 27th Dec 2021 00:41

Yeah, the booster program for A-Z recipients is skewed against you. You can try your luck at a chemist. My wife went in and explained that she was a carer and she got the booster 3 weeks before she was due. Of course the next day they changed the recommendation from 5 to 4 months anyway.

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 00:45

I heard a Professor of Viral Disease ( or something like that) from UWA interviewed last week. He said that anyone that has had AZ should get a third shot ASAP as AZ is almost useless against omicron.

WingNut60 27th Dec 2021 01:00


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11161198)
Yeah, the booster program for A-Z recipients is skewed against you. You can try your luck at a chemist. My wife went in and explained that she was a carer and she got the booster 3 weeks before she was due. Of course the next day they changed the recommendation from 5 to 4 months anyway.

You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

C441 27th Dec 2021 01:30

If you're in Brissy and you're now eligible for a booster, shop around. I previously had an appointment for 5 months and a day after 2nd dose but was able to move that forward to Jan 4th (2 weeks earlier and closer to home) with a little search on Hotdoc.

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 01:51


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161199)
I heard a Professor of Viral Disease ( or something like that) from UWA interviewed last week. He said that anyone that has had AZ should get a third shot ASAP as AZ is almost useless against omicron.

Useless as in preventing severe illness, or useless as in preventing infection?

Australopithecus 27th Dec 2021 01:54


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11161201)
You would need to luck onto a pharmacy with vaccine.
All pharmacies & clinics in this area advise that they are not taking bookings until vaccine becomes available and that is not expected until the middle of January.

They can cut the recommendation to 3 days and it still won't get me a booster before 5-1/2 months.

Why isnít it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.

WingNut60 27th Dec 2021 02:22


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 11161210)
Why isnít it available now? Some local chemists here have Moderna, and I got a Pfizer booster last week at a local clinic.

Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 02:28


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161208)
Useless as in preventing severe illness, or useless as in preventing infection?

Actually.. that is a very good question.

theheadmaster 27th Dec 2021 05:33


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11161213)
Bl..dy good question. If you have an answer I'll be keen to hear it.

I happened to be listening to the news when they announced that you could get a booster 5 months after initial vaccination course. As luck would have it, the announcement was made 5 months after my initial course, so I booked immediately and had my booster done at the local chemist a week later. The pharmacist told me they were surprised by the announcement, as it happened immediately AFTER chemists had to put in their vaccine order. She told me that I was lucky I booked straight away, as they were expecting demand would outstrip supply as they were unable to amend their order after the changed time frame announcement. Make of that what you will, being third hand information, but it appears consistent with people here not being able to get boosters this month.

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 09:39


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161216)
Actually.. that is a very good question.

It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 10:38


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161296)
It's the kind of question you should be asking yourself before swallowing the crap the mainstream media feeds you and especially before regurgitating the same misleading statement to others

And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 10:41


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11161313)
And your information comes from where? Information from YouTube?

I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes

SOPS 27th Dec 2021 11:03


Originally Posted by Jester64 (Post 11161315)
I can assure you I use YouTube for more entertaining purposes


So please inform us of what you know. And who told you what you know. My Doctor rang me today to tell me to get my third shot in two weeks.. as I have had AZ. I assume she is telling me crap, because she listens to MSM?

Jester64 27th Dec 2021 11:22

WTF are you on about?? I have not provided this forum any information or opinion regarding covid or the vaccine. You however provided us with a very significant and possibly misleading statement regarding the vaccine and Omicron, which I questioned you on. You then admitted to not knowing the answer. So Iím calling you out on spreading possible misinformation.


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