PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Turnleft080 18th Aug 2021 06:02


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 11097052)
Turban,

Like I said, get rid of the testing and the lockdowns and lets see how bad this 'virus' really is.

Every day, I watch the media conferences. The fear campaign is incredible.

Plus the higher the cases per day, the more fear they will express. Gladys and Chant almost look like they are about to have a heart attack. Would be interesting to check their blood pressure during the conference. You are ruining my chances of re-election. That's what happens when you run with the science solutions with having total disrespect for common sense ones. To put that another way, we need to live with the planet not against it.

ruprecht 18th Aug 2021 06:11


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11097054)
If you know anyone from WA that is currently in NSW and they want to
go home.. tell them to leave today.

I am pretty sure that the border will be shut to everyone from NSW as from tomorrow. No exceptions. Nil, nada, no way. And unless The Golden Girl can get the cases down, it could remain like that for the rest of the year.

I don’t want to know how you think this is a good/ bad/ terrible idea. I’m just warning people what I am pretty sure is about to happen.

So WA is going “Full McGowan”?

compressor stall 18th Aug 2021 06:17

Talk of banning everybody except those who they constitutionally cannot.

43Inches 18th Aug 2021 06:22

I would not be surprised if McGowan pushes to secede from Australia shortly, and I'm not joking.

They tried once before in 1933, got the votes but then lost power.

Capn Rex Havoc 18th Aug 2021 07:02

43 In

Now suicide rate might be stable but yeah there might be 50% are due to lockdown.
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.

43Inches 18th Aug 2021 07:25

https://www.coronerscourt.vic.gov.au...May%202021.pdf

You can read for yourself, no real change in stats or skyrocketing in any particular age group. That's victoria alone though.

MickG0105 18th Aug 2021 07:33


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11097082)
43 In
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.

Do you have a name for that psychologist or any details on the statistics she quoted?

Foxxster 18th Aug 2021 07:37


Originally Posted by Blackout (Post 11097066)
Its not about the facts anymore, its about identity politics !

SAD


nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys won’t do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

43Inches 18th Aug 2021 07:39

And that's the simple reason Dan just locks down the whole city or whole state, the suburb thing is a minefield of opinions.

Paragraph377 18th Aug 2021 07:51


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11097087)
Do you have a name for that psychologist or any details on the statistics she quoted?

Mick, try googling the information. You seem to be proactive at googling statements or reports that support your premise that everything isnít that bad. You are always on here saying how well the economy is going and how things are better than they seem. I call bollocks. There are countless economists online discussing how many businesses are failing. There are equally as many psychologists mentioning how counselling services are out of control. There are countless medical experts telling us that lockdowns are causing people to cancel doctors visits and things like cancer are going undiagnosed. Sure, online shopping, camper van and caravan sales and vehicle sales have skyrocketed. But ask the tourism operators and businesses, the taxi and transport industry and the hotel/motel industry how things are going and itís a different story. Our economy has been broken in half. We have now been saddled with decades more debt. Using rigged stock market prices and inflated house prices as a measure of a strong economy is an absolute false reading.





WYOMINGPILOT 18th Aug 2021 08:05

All borders to reopen.” I think somebody missed that memo.

43Inches 18th Aug 2021 08:05

The hallmark of a capitalist economy is simply survival of the fittest, regardless of the situation. There is no such thing as a normal economy, it changes like life itself, a business this year might be gone next year depending on what it specialises in and demand dictates.

Business failure is just part of the process, sounds harsh, but hence the term "that's business".

Covid is just a blip or hurdle to make business adapt, could be this is the new normal and we are seeing the extinction level event for face to face companies that has been coming since the internet spawned. The measure of a countries economic output is its GDP, so if that is not changing much, business is coping or adapting enough. I provided the bankruptcy stats for 2019 a while back, was easy to see that the stats were down for 2020/21, why, a bad business loses more cash when its operating in harsh competition, than when its hibernating. The good businesses have "pivoted " to online and takeaway. Yeah general revenue is down across the board, but this ain't no depression, and when things do open up, people will spend their arses off. That's also why there has been no mass layoffs apart from aviation and tourism.

Gnadenburg 18th Aug 2021 08:23

This isn't a blip. It's crushing in its inconsistency for business. It is more like a military occupation. This would be more apparent if Australia was not insulated in a number of ways.

MickG0105 18th Aug 2021 09:12


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11097097)
Mick, try googling the information.

That's my first recourse. I found nothing, hence the question to the Capn.


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11097097)
You seem to be proactive at googling statements or reports that support your premise ...

Yes, using readily accessible verified data to support an argument or contention ... what a novel approach!


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11097097)
You are always on here saying how well the economy is going and how things are better than they seem.

Am I? Always on here saying how well the economy is going? Near as I can tell I haven't said boo about the performance of the Australian economy since the 7th and that was simply to state the facts that while the Australian economy shrank in 2020, by Q1-21 the economy had recovered such that it was larger than in Q4-19.

And when have I ever said 'things are better than they seem'? I generally look to quote data - it is what it is.

Separately there was our exchange relating to inflation here, in the US and Europe. You might recall that exchange was where you posted a link to an article that contradicted the point you were trying to make.

Ninthace 18th Aug 2021 09:22


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11096620)
So many people putting trust in the Prime Minister and Premiers comments that once this magical number of 70 to 80% vaccination is reached, it will be freedom all around! Really? Show me the evidence. Show me the accurate data to prove that this will be the case, that 80% will do the trick. Not 81% and not 89.6% but 80% apparently. Show me the risk modelling factoring in known and latent risks.!

You might want to look at the UK data. Over 75% double jabbed, going on for 90% single jabbed, around 25k positive tests per day yet hospital admissions and deaths are low. We are suffering but we are functioning with the aid of ongoing public health measures. Most of us still mask up in shops and such, clean our hands and so on. It is not ideal, but things are returning to some semblance of normal.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

machtuk 18th Aug 2021 09:24


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11097082)
43 In
I saw a psychologist on the abc news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. The statistics she provided eclipses the "deaths" due Covid. She also said she is now seeing small children who are self harming due to the lockdown measures and home schooling.

That's the hidden tragedy of all this BS! The younger ones will suffer & the grubby Govt couldn't care less as most don't vote! Remember grubby politicians face reelection so Its all about staying popular and in a cushy job!

Green.Dot 18th Aug 2021 09:30


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11097157)
You might want to look at the UK data. Over 75% double jabbed, going on for 90% single jabbed, around 25k positive tests per day yet hospital admissions and deaths are low. We are suffering but we are functioning with the aid of ongoing public health measures. Most of us still mask up in shops and such, clean our hands and so on. It is not ideal, but things are returning to some semblance of normal.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk

Yep. Get vaccinated.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8bbd98194.jpeg


SOPS 18th Aug 2021 09:58


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11097090)
nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys wonít do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

No one was brave enough to say it up to now. Foxxster has nailed it.

Lead Balloon 18th Aug 2021 10:30

It also happens to be the area in which the lion's share of drug money is laundered, and that's for the whole of Australia. People who distribute drugs as a vocation are generally unperturbed by minor irritations like laws.

Ladloy 18th Aug 2021 10:56


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11097090)
nobody will say it.

but look at where the cases are. South west Sydney predominantly and also western Sydney.

you want to know why Gladys wonít do a proper lockdown there, Because she is afraid of being called racist. Yep. Afraid of being called racist by the kind of people who have just taken over in Afghanistan. There are hundreds of them in that part of Sydney. More like thousands. We saw them at their finest a few years ato at that protest in the centre of Sydney where they had their five year old children hold up signs saying behead all infidels. Did anyone really think they are going to worry about lockdown laws.But everyday we get Gladys at her press conference saying pretty please stay at home if you live in that area. Pwease. For gods sake.

The whole state is in some sort of lockdown now. If she didn't want to he called racist she may as well blanket the harsher rules throughout the state. Racism theory doesn't add up.


Lead Balloon 18th Aug 2021 11:11

None of the state of NSW is in 'lockdown'. The Local Government Areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are not in 'lockdown'.

When the areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are actually 'locked down', NSW will move from half-arsed to fully-arsed. The difficulty with going fully-arsed in those areas is that many of the residents are not used to and are not inclined to do what they've been told by the 'authorities'.

The same does not apply to much of the rest of NSW.

KRviator 18th Aug 2021 11:21


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11097155)
That's my first recourse. I found nothing, hence the question to the Capn.

I'm not sure I've read the same article, but I've seen several that seem to support that position. Here's but two...

Every day, paediatrician and child psychiatrist Alberto Veloso sees children as young as five struggling with anxiety, depression and thoughts of harming themselves. But what is different is the number of those seeking help has gone up drastically during the pandemic.

"We are getting a 30 to 40 per cent increase in referrals and increasing demand that we have trouble keeping up [with]," Dr Veloso said. "We now have a waitlist. To see one of our clinicians is a couple of months. Source

With Victoria undergoing its sixth lockdown, residents in rural areas of the state are waiting up to three months to see a psychologist, as the strain of repeated stay-at-home orders continues to grow.

Boort psychologist Naomi Malone said that, in every lockdown, more people sought help, and waiting times had blown out. "With our little practice, we usually get one or two enquiries a day, but [during] the last lockdown we had 30 enquiries a week," Dr Malone said. Source
Bear in mind these articles deal exclusively with those that have the courage to reach out for help. I don't know the percentage breakdowns of those that do, vs those that don't, but I'm fairly confident in saying it's heavily skewed towards those that don't and that being the case, there's an awful lot of people out there who need that help but aren't getting it....

MickG0105 18th Aug 2021 11:39


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11097215)
I'm not sure I've read the same article, but I've seen several that seem to support that position. Here's but two...Bear in mind these articles deal exclusively with those that have the courage to reach out for help. I don't know the percentage breakdowns of those that do, vs those that don't, but I'm fairly confident in saying it's heavily skewed towards those that don't and that being the case, there's an awful lot of people out there who need that help but aren't getting it....

Yep, thanks for that. I found the ABC piece that featured Dr Veloso talking about increased demand for mental health services. That increased demand is not in dispute - I'm involved with a crisis support service and we've seen a 20 percent increase in demand since the pandemic started.

What I could not find was a psychologist that was on the ABC news last night who was saying that the suicide rate in teenagers has skyrocketed. Hence the question to the good Capn.

Lead Balloon 18th Aug 2021 11:44

Yay! Australia's disgraceful rate of suicide is remaining stable. Go Australia!

Paragraph377 18th Aug 2021 12:51

Increases in those needing counselling services and those committing suicide during COVID;
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....icle/100305640

An estimated 2,500 cancer diagnosis missed in Victoria alone during COVID. That is just one State, as an example;
https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2021/...d-19-lockdowns

Airlines, tourism, transport, hospitality, healthcare, live entertainment, gyms, health clubs and yes retail - all smashed. Many people think that because online sales are up that means the overall retail trade is up. Wrong, retail is made up of more than Amazon and EBay. ABC article;
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp....icle/100305954

My reason for posting this is because Iím so sick of people saying Ďmost sections of the economy are goodí, except for aviation. Bullshit.



43Inches 18th Aug 2021 13:26

No one said the economy was "good", the economy is "fine", that is we are not in recession or depression. But compared the rest of the world we are doing OK.

The argument is over how many businesses will/have failed because of covid strategy vs how many are dying. You can talk about mental health, businesses shutting down, etc, all the severe effects of this are RBS monitored, and the results in are that no mass suicides are happening and no mass bankruptcy is going on.

That does not mean people are not getting mentally or economically stressed, they are, but are they suicidal and going out of business, NO.

Look at the list of things that stress a person out, number 1 - Death of a loved one, financial stress is down the line about number 7. If you think being open and letting people die is somehow better for mental health than what is currently happening you are misguided. How many would be considering suicide after they bring covid home and infect and kill their loved ones.

If you think its better for the economy when small businesses close because their owners died of covid or masses of workers are on sick leave for isolation or until testing negative, you are misguided. If you think having 30% of your population scared to leave home because they will get sick is good for the economy, you are misguided. If you think the economic losses due to increased amounts of long term sick due to long covid will not cost the economy a huge amount, you may, well you know the drill.

Seriously if you think mental health and economic issues are only part of the lockdown solution, you may need a jackhammer to loosen up that grey matter.

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...substance-use/

Thats from the USA, the pandemic in general is causing all the same issues, its not a "lockdown" thing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7503043/

A study on Sweden being more free, found mental health issues were no different than Italy or China which had severe lockdowns.

Ninthace 18th Aug 2021 15:30

Or you could have a look at this
https://biblescienceforum.com/2021/0...ner-fuellmich/
realise it is all BS and regain the1hr:22min you would have wasted.

https://medika.life/reiner-fuellmich...onspiracy-con/
https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2...9;t-novel.html

SOPS 18th Aug 2021 16:04


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11097319)

And what worries me is that it appears that there are people here, that I assume are in charge of large jet aircraft, actually believe this conspiracy crap. It really concerns me.

( Although I must admit, now that Iím fully vaxed, my 4G phone has great 5G reception 😂😂)

hamfists 18th Aug 2021 20:52

It may all be bullshit but if youíre trying to find truth on ABC, Reuters, AP, The New York Times or the American news networks youíll be out of luck..the BBC is about 50/50

I donít know what they teach in journalism school but it doesnít include any sort of investigation

Xeptu 18th Aug 2021 20:58


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11097342)
And what worries me is that it appears that there are people here, that I assume are in charge of large jet aircraft, actually believe this conspiracy crap. It really concerns me.

( Although I must admit, now that Iím fully vaxed, my 4G phone has great 5G reception 😂😂)

Morning All :) It's certainly eyebrow raising but when you think about it it's no different to God fearing people that think they're off to heaven when they die.

RodH 18th Aug 2021 21:40

I read in the ABC News web site this morning that our illustrious Qld. premier has asked for 100 Commonwealth troops to be stationed along the NSW border to keep those pesky infected NSW people out of the Sunshine State.
Things are getting pretty nasty and desperate ATM.
No way things will change much until most of us have had two doses of the vaccine.
Until then Chaos will reign supreme.

Paragraph377 18th Aug 2021 21:58


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11097467)
Morning All :) It's certainly eyebrow raising but when you think about it it's no different to God fearing people that think they're off to heaven when they die.

If there is a higher source I doubt he would want the heavens infected with COVID. I donít want to be the one though that has to tell that to those who believe they have a higher calling (politicians, elitists, airline CEOís etc)

Gnadenburg 18th Aug 2021 22:54


Originally Posted by RodH (Post 11097490)
I read in the ABC News web site this morning that our illustrious Qld. premier has asked for 100 Commonwealth troops to be stationed along the NSW border to keep those pesky infected NSW people out of the Sunshine State.
Things are getting pretty nasty and desperate ATM.
No way things will change much until most of us have had two doses of the vaccine.
Until then Chaos will reign supreme.

Crossed the border 12 times into QLD and back to NSW on my hike yesterday afternoon. Beautiful! Didn't see a Queenlander. Glad they are being kept safe by Annastacia.

C441 18th Aug 2021 23:02


Originally Posted by RodH (Post 11097490)
I read in the ABC News web site this morning that our illustrious Qld. premier has asked for 100 Commonwealth troops to be stationed along the NSW border to keep those pesky infected NSW people out of the Sunshine State.
Things are getting pretty nasty and desperate ATM.
No way things will change much until most of us have had two doses of the vaccine.
Until then Chaos will reign supreme.

And then there's this from the 'beloved' Qld CHO…..:rolleyes:
“One case of Delta means we need a lockdown ... until we get 70 per cent of our population vaccinated,” she said on Wednesday. “If we don’t find the first case, we won’t be locking down for one or two weeks, we’ll be locking down for months.”

KRviator 18th Aug 2021 23:11

But, C441 she has kept 'em safe up there. She's done so well, she's been promoted to Governor of Queen-P's-Land.

Yep. A real top effort. You just have to look past the devastated families who missed seeing their dying relatives, or their funerals, the infant who was flown from the Northern River's to Sydney instead of Brisbane for treatment and died as a result and the comment that if you're rich enough, you can buy your way in to the state.

But she's kept them safe! No matter the cost!

Gnadenburg 18th Aug 2021 23:16


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11097272)
No one said the economy was "good", the economy is "fine", that is we are not in recession or depression. But compared the rest of the world we are doing OK.


As we should be! We are a bountiful and lucky country. We are benefiting from world-wide stimulus driving a healthy balance of payments. There is confidence Australia's economy will bounce back quickly from the Delta blip. But is it a given with current leadership? Somebody has to say, moving forward into a post-COVID world, some Australians will have to die.

COVID is round one from the CCP btw. However which way you look at it. Australia needs a strong economy and strong leadership. We've been exposed in our COVID response on many fronts inviting CCP interference.

I'm sure there are never-ending links to support this argument but I won't fall into the trap of thinking anyone here clicks on them.


Foxxster 18th Aug 2021 23:17


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11097546)
But, C441 she has kept 'em safe up there. She's done so well, she's been promoted to Governor of Queen-P's-Land.

Yep. A real top effort. You just have to look past the devastated families who missed seeing their dying relatives, or their funerals, the infant who was flown from the Northern River's to Sydney instead of Brisbane for treatment and died as a result and the comment that if you're rich enough, you can buy your way in to the state.

But she's kept them safe! No matter the cost!


and done a wonderful smear job on AstraZeneca purely for political purposes. She and her health nutter knew full well the weakness of the federal libs especially Morrison was the lack of Pfizer. But there was plenty of AstraZeneca. So we get the chook making up bullshit stories so she can get Pfizer and the quack doing a hatchet job on AstraZeneca not once but twice. Keeping Queensland safe. I think not.

Foxxster 18th Aug 2021 23:23


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11097212)
None of the state of NSW is in 'lockdown'. The Local Government Areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are not in 'lockdown'.

When the areas in Sydney in which most of the cases are arising are actually 'locked down', NSW will move from half-arsed to fully-arsed. The difficulty with going fully-arsed in those areas is that many of the residents are not used to and are not inclined to do what they've been told by the 'authorities'.

The same does not apply to much of the rest of NSW.


and they are of a group that is very vocal and quick to shout racist. And they are a group fully supported by the leftist agitators. That is why they are not property locked down.

when 550 out of 630 cases are in their area. And then same proportion of cases has been repeated for the last 6 or 7 weeks then it becomes a very expensive sick joke on the premier. Too scared of being called racist. How pathetic.

43Inches 18th Aug 2021 23:36

To bring some sanity back to this argument;

The Western suburbs are just indicative of how and where communicable diseases best spread. Low socioeconomic areas with large family groups, hence why I said last year that Sydney was just lucky they got away with opening when Melbourne got it bad. Last year it was Melbourne that got it in the Western suburb groups and it spread among large family/school group areas. This year in Sydney and Melbourne is no different. Northern suburbs Sydney outbreak, rich people, small families, low population density, little social interaction. Easy to contact trace. Western suburbs, poorer families, more casual floating workforce, large families that congregate to assist and help each other out, large religious gatherings and following of all faiths (not just one particular faith). More dense and interactive population. Lower education levels also leads to mistrust of the system so can be hard to have any control over, especially rules about not visiting family etc.

I remember a few years back driving with a friend around town, next thing surrounded by all these colored folk in gowns and head-dress, friend turns and seriously asks. "Are you worried living among all these Muslims?", I responded "Dude these are Sikhs".

I don't know what Gladys has done other than single out certain shires. Dan got in early with community leaders and the like even donating funds to some local ethnic youth groups to help spread the message in those areas, he's also been keen to keep the focus on the virus and not particular suburbs or cultures.

Turnleft080 19th Aug 2021 00:33

Melbourne figures out. 57 cases, 44 in iso, leaving 13 in the community which is the danger figure. Funny how Vic gov like to leak this stuff around 0830am, and NSW go all out bang at 1100am. Days of our lives stuff.


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:04.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.