International arrivals won’t stop , just get vaccinated and get on with it . This is part of life now .

Because it’s complete and utter bull**** that they’re closed to start with.

Ohh that and the fact that maybe some people might have very legitimate reasons, ie. work.

Not everyone believes in a North Korean fortress style border.

I give up, there’s no point arguing with a 7 year old.

And honestly, if you think flying is that hard that I need to be a psychologist and hold a doctorate, you’ve got serious issues buddy. It’s not that fecking hard. :rolleyes:

Yup, what a shambles this is turning into. Scomo won’t provide a roadmap to recovery because then there is no reason to keep the LNP in power. So it’ll be “keeping you safe” and “envy of the world” until the election is called.

So by that logic the PM should stay out then? What about the various government ministers that need to travel?

What about Australians that live overseas and need to come home to deal with various family issues? They can’t go back overseas?

What about the various business owners in Australia that need to travel to keep their businesses running?

What about Australians that have family overseas they need to see?

I could go on and on, but I’m sure you get the point. The border CAN NEVER be closed. No country on earth functions that way. By your logic, all airlines should stop flying to Australia as well, good luck getting any of that Pfizer vaccine that’s so important now!

Australian citizens have a right to access their own country. It’s up to the government to create a safe and effective way for that to happen during a pandemic. Just shouting “shut the border!” is not safe and effective.

Do you get that point? ITS UP TO THE GOVERNMENT to create an effective quarantine system. To allow citizens to move around so the country continues to function.

If there actually was a safe and effective quarantine system (NOT hotel quarantine), that was user pays, with an associated cap on numbers, plus all the issues with international air travel at the moment, plus the risk of getting COVID (cause most Aussies aren’t vaccinated) and people STILL want to travel with all that hassle and risk, who are you to say “no”??

What happened to our liberal democracy? What happened to some level of personal responsibility when presented with the associated risks?

This is not something that will go away this year or probably the next, the influenza continued to spike every year well into the mid 1920’s after the original outbreak in 1919. Shutting the country off from the world for multiple years is not a suitable response.

About time we incentivised vaccines in this country. There is enough vaccine to to cover the most at risk and at risk of causing breakouts.

1. You cannot enter this country unless you are fully vaccinated
2. You cannot leave this country until you are fully vaccinated
3. You can travel freely within this country if you are fully vaccinated. You are not subject to state border restrictions or lockdowns.
4. You can travel freely overseas to low risk countries from 31 Oct if you are fully vaccinated with quarantine on return for 1 test and then no quarantine but a follow up test in 7 days
5. You can travel freely to low risk countries from 1Dec if you are fully vaccinated with no quarantine but a test on return.
6. If you work in front line health, borders, emergency, international freight movements etc you get paid double time every single time you go to work for the next 6mths if you are fully vaccinated and you will receive a tax credit for the next 3yrs for your service to the greater good of the country.

Just watch how many would suddenly think the minimal risk of AZ side effects is acceptable when freedom and money comes into it.

All it needs is a plan!

I'm intrigued by what is going on in Australia right now, looking from afar in the UK. I still haven't cancelled my hotels in late Nov / early Dec in Brisbane and Adelaide for the Ashes, although I'm resigned to the fact I am locked out of Aussie for a long time. Did I see somewhere that there is talk of border closures until potentially 2023? Its insanity.

Are everyday Aussies really putting up with this never ending cycle of scare tactics, lockdown and political game playing? I thought there was a plan? I deeply feel for my fellow Australian friends and aviation comrades who are having to put with this nonsense day after day.

Were they putting up with it when Scotty from Marketing was walking around freely in the UK, tracing his family tree and mingling with political mates at the G7? At the same time saying how dangerous the UK is right now.*

*Newsflash - it isn't. The delta variant of course is a more infectious and possibly deadlier variant, but each of the vaccines are strongly effective against it and now over 80% of the adult population has had one dose and as of now all of the priority groups would've had their second. Life has almost returned to normal domestically and in fact, in reality, with Euro 2020 ongoing, it already has. In 18 days time, in theory, all restrictions will have been removed in the UK although I'm dubious as to what might happen later in the year. Right now there are around 20,000++ cases a day on average, but only around 200 a day going in hospital and on average around a dozen a day are dying. On a typical day probably around 1,300 people die every day in the UK. Perspective - something a lot of governments don't seem to have.

Being double vaccinated, I couldn't be any more protected apart from the exposure from widespread community transmission. But the vaccines are so miraculous, in over 90% of cases prevent you getting severe disease, even more so if you're under 50 where the risk really was significantly reduced before vaccines. Eventually, people who are fully vaccinated will be able to travel to amber countries without a return quarantine and most of Europe are now doing this from today with their new travel pass.

For what it's worth, I am 33 years old and had the AZ vaccine in around late March. I was groggy for 24 hours first time like most but absolutely fine - like 100,000s of others in my age bracket who had early access for whatever reason. Back at the time when there were question marks over this vaccine, there was 1.1 case in 100,000 of severe reaction which was slightly larger than the severe Covid risk for this cohort and as such the decision was made by UK JCVI, the regulator. Not for scare tactics, but a strategic risked based decision.

The world really is full of inconsistencies at the moment... it does irk me how science differs depending on your nationality, wallet size or celebrity status.

Yep. Either don't go, or stay out if you do. And it's by their own logic.

Define "need". Who's going to die if pollies don't travel overseas? Who's going to declare war on us or stop sending us Christmas Cards?

Each of those trips involves dozens of hangers-on who each pose a 'quarantine' hotel leak risk, and each of those leaks has cost and continues to cost the country billions.
Define "need". Who's going to die if they don't come home or can't go back overseas unless they stay there until the pandemic is under control?
Define "need". Who's going to die if they don't travel?Define "need". Who's going to die if they don't "see" the overseas family?

There are inumerable examples of people who "need" to travel within Australia but are prohibited from doing so. Lives and businesses are being destroyed here, and people are being cut off from family here, due to the restrictions on travel within Australia, and those restrictions have been triggered by outbreaks caused by infections from overseas travel!

And there are thousands of travellers let in from overseas who aren't Australians and aren't visiting dying relatives!

It's about the rank hypocrisy.

Much of this could have been avoided if the Commonwealth had stepped up to its responsibilities and started building proper quarantine facilities over a year ago. But, just as Scotty from Marketing doesn't hold a hose, he doesn't lay bricks.

Thats a disgrace & needs to be stopped as you say.
You get 1 chance & 1 chance only.
This situation is controlled by federal govt?

Yes. The Federal government decides who comes here, and the circumstances in which they come.

So you’ll pay my mortgage when I can’t travel
overseas for work. Or better still, can you please point me to a job based here I can take… maybe I’ll call up some local airlines and offer to work at pennies on the dollar and ruin it for local crew (that’s sarcasm). Some. People have a legitimate reason to travel overseas multiple times.

And what about the people who can't pay their mortgage because their business in Australia has died, due to lockdowns caused by overseas travel by others?

The country will reopen , up to you to be vaccinated or not when living with covid .

What about those who have and will lose their livelihoods due to an extended border closure in Australia?

Quarantine was bungled, vaccination rollout a shambles and lockdowns debatable. I really can't blame Australians travelling overseas to make a living. Seems unfashionable to be a profitable Aussie these days.

I agree.

My point is that the 'fallout' from the bungled quarantine arrangements and vaccine rollout should be equitably shared. But it seems that some people are more equal than others.

It’s not the porous border policy that is causing this. They’ve had 15 months to sort this out by throwing practically unlimited resources at it and the net result is arguments about traveller quotas and a plan to build quarantine centres God only knows when. What about the complete lack of common sense that sees limo drivers (of international flight crew FFS) not testing or masking up (allegedly), receptionists working outside a COVID ward unvaccinated, the sub-standard information flow about which vaccines are available and to whom slowing the entire roll out down, not to mention unmasked, multi-jobbing hotel ‘security’ guards and mixing domestic and international travellers at quarantine hotels?

If someone wants to go through hotel quarantine 8 times, that is their business, however that’s 7 people that could have returned from overseas - that is an issue.

I agree.

But I don't agree that tolerating numerous stupid things is a justification for continuing to tolerate all of those stupid things.

So how do you stop people coming to Australia with fake Vaccinnation certificates ? Unlikely for borders to open before 2025.

As long as Covid doesn’t morph into something that can beat the vaccines, borders will be more or less completely open by this time next year. Wouldn’t surprise me if we’re allowing those vaccinated to travel to certain countries with minimal iso on return by February or March.

The same way you stop people coming on fake documents of any kind I’d suggest. I can’t see it being an issue.

Doesn’t seem much of an improvement. We are going further backwards with 50% caps for the rest of this year and “hope we are living in the second phase next year”. The second phase means unvaccinated caps back to today’s level, possible increase in vaccinated travel but still existing quarantine for unvaxxed and maybe 7 day home quarantine for vaxxed. That’s hardly opening up.

Even with home quarantine - its still not fun and really only those who need to travel or those taking extended leave will be going, no-one will be going to Bali for a week only to return to a week or two of home quarantine.

Why do you believe that? I just can't see the impetus for anyone in government to do anything. The Feds are hamstrung by the States and the States are basically running their own countries now so why will they surrender that? There is no constitutional pressure, and the states can just keep on waivering any sort of rule of law by declaring emergencies. What's the circuit breaker to end this?

or there will be massive non compliance. Can you really see the 20 and 30 somethings actually complying completely with a weeks home detention. Uni students…etc…


Once we reach around 70% fully vaccinated, there should be NO measures like social distancing, QR codes, masks, lockdowns or ANY quarantine period for returning international travellers. That’s the whole point of a MASS vaccination program. Anything else and there will be bloody riots and I’ll be up the front.

as for fake certificates.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...esearchers-say


and fake vaccines

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le34979344.ece

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...bal-crime-wave

Something positive and you talk it down with negatives that are just crap. Digital certificate embedded in your passport. Problem solved. Facial recognition scan. Problem solved. Government encrypted app. Problem solved.

Get enough vaccinated and no need for health passports , facial recognition , hotel quarantine, home quarantine , daily updates on coronavirus or lockdowns and border control .
It gets called a common virus and we forget about it .

you should get onto the FBI and international customs departments. I’m sure they will value your input and you easily, cough cough implemented ideas. After all seeing as they are so easy, they have already been implemented world wide so there are actually no fake certificates now and nobody using them and getting caught.

and as I said, once we get to around 70% vaccinated there should be NO NEED FOR ANY MEASURES.

I believe you have missed the point completely.

So this magic 30000 number of Australians wanting to get home has popped again today.

The new international arrival cap is 3035 people a week. So in around 10 weeks, all Australians that want, should be home, right?

You'd like to think so, but nah.

Most of the 30,000 are nobodies like us.

Most of the 3,035 will, in contrast, be special people. Some are going for their Platinum Frequent Quarantiner membership.

The circuit breaker will be significantly decreased sickness and hospitalisation overseas from Delta Covid. The circuit breaker will be a population that is 80%+ vaccinated by Christmas this year demanding to know why they can’t travel without onerous restrictions that the rest of the world doesn’t have to deal with. The Australian public have been pretty resilient and patient waiting for the ‘way out’ (vaccines). Once that arrives the patience will start to dissipate as quickly as the virus.

Nope!! Congrats on figuring out the basic maths, but what you keep missing is the “30,000” is not static.

Pre-COVID there was upto 1 Million Aussies living and working overseas. Combine that with the fact 1/3rd of Australians were born overseas, means there’s a never ending amount of people with a need to get back.

I’m overseas and not included in that 30,000 along with dozens of other Aussies I know. So what happens later this year or early next when we all decide to come back?

(For any reason by the way, why people travel is none of your business to be honest! I’m an Aussie citizen, access to my own country eventually would be nice “mate”)

What is the continuous period (up until now) you've been stuck overseas, aviation enthus?

Define “stuck”. I’m lucky to still have a job, a visa and a house to live in. Over the past 18 months I’ve encountered plenty of people that had massive problems returning home due to the border restrictions.

Haven’t visited Australia on holidays since mid 2019. Given the current issues around travel and the border, I don’t expect to visit again until mid next year. So that’ll be about 3 years by then. That’s longer than normal, as an expat you anticipate being able to head home once a year.

Currently working overseas, but like many it’s not a permanent decision, we will come back. Australia is our country. Our home.

Probably 99% of the Aussies I’ve spoken to in the last 18 months are pissed off about the way they’ve been treated by their own country. Plus it’s ironic that Australia thinks it’s the “envy of the world” with their pandemic management. I can tell you with a straight face that’s a load of BS. The rest of the world is laughing at us!!

I'd suggest to you the relatives of the 128, 000 dead UK citizens from Covid aren't laughing....

Aaaannnddd there it is….
 

No I’m sure they aren’t. And I’m also glad that elderly relatives have largely been saved back home.

However….

You misunderstood why they are laughing. It’s the lack of care and respect for their own citizens both inside and outside of Australia. COVID can be tackled will still showing some care for you own citizens….

- only country ON EARTH to threaten jail time for citizens trying to come home

- look at the fiasco around Christmas/NYE when Victorians were locked out of returning to their own homes

- the multiple times QLD has denied access for people from NSW to access hospitals in SEQLD

That’s just a few off the top of my head that regularly come up in conversation.

Now Australia is an island. So a strategy that plays to that strength is great. By all means have quarantine on arrival, even user pays after the first few months.

But the way Australian citizens are treated is what they’re laughing at mate. What are we loosing in the name of “health advice”…??

What annoys me is the way the Aussies look at death rates and claim victory over the Poms like it’s the ashes!
Yes they did well by locking down hard and fast, but they never seem to acknowledge the luck that geography and population density differences provided. Apples and Oranges.

It may appear that way but remember, all politics is ‘local’. I can’t comment for all Aussies… (as ‘average’ as I am) but I don’t think most gloat in that way.

Media & politicians are all pandering to the click-bait / re-election motivators; sad & frustrating to many.🙄

That's my observation, too.

One of the reasons those Aussies and their families and friends are so pissed off is that they are slowly getting a better insight into how many non-Aussies have been getting special treatment and permitted to travel back and forward to Australia. The rich and 'important'. Orwell's more equal animals.

Are politicians risk adverse and keeping us all " safe " or politically and electorially selfish unwilling to make the call that is obvious to most?

What really is the point of the last 18 months if there is no exit strategy or drive to leave this farce behind, move on and learn to live with this disease like we do with all others?

Remember, COVID19 is a health affliction as well as a major industry with many hangers on with a vested interest in the current rudderless situation.

This embarresment is certainly nothing to be proud of. Smilling politicians and bureaucrats milking it for all its worth whilst the country slowly implodes.

They are simply Scum.

MCD