PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

KRviator 9th Feb 2021 05:01

At what point are "they" going to say "Enough is Enough!"?? It's got out of HQ pretty much everywhere in Oz, NZ and even The Democratic Peoples Republic of Westralia, both during the 14-day period, and after.

I mean, if a pilot were to land gear up, they learn from it and odds are they don't bloody do it again, do they? How many more times is it going to get out, resulting in border closures, travel restrictions, missed funerals & cancelled weddings?

Sunfish 9th Feb 2021 05:29

Kraviator - from one of the planners, not me; "We know we are going to have occasional outbreaks because perfect HQ is not statistically possible. We then have to rely on the contact tracing system to protect us."

Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.

Chronic Snoozer 9th Feb 2021 05:50

Hotel Quarantine WA



Members of the public are also welcome to book rooms at the Pan Pacific Perth, another quarantine hotel.

In a statement, a WA Health spokesperson confirmed two Perth quarantine hotels were open to the public, saying both had to "meet strict requirements" and ensure that "the hotel is clearly divided into two very separate areas".


WA Premier Mark McGowan said the use of quarantine hotels by members of the public had been "queried at length" with medical advisors, and the advice was that "it is not a risk".

More than 2 million people endured a snap five-day lockdown in Perth and surrounding areas last week.

The shutdown was sparked by a single case of coronavirus contracted by a young security guard working at the Four Points by Sheraton hotel.

A review into the breach is ongoing and WA Health Minister Roger Cook has now made it mandatory for all workers in high-risk areas of hotel security to wear masks and eye protection.

Potsie Weber 9th Feb 2021 05:56

Perth Hyatt! How do divide this into 2 very separate areas?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2adf70285.jpeg

DirectAnywhere 9th Feb 2021 06:02


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10986640)
Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.

I’d bet London to a brick that the medical advice would have been remote quarantine.

Their political masters will have told the experts that’s not happening, make do with what you’ve got and provide ‘advice’ on the basis that hotel quarantine is the only option. That’s their ‘medical advice’. I suspect some politicians are regretting that decision, except the Feds who’ve managed to duck their constitutional responsibility with flair and aplomb.

The Holiday Inn/ Travelodge was a dive when it opened in the 70’s. It would be well past its use by date now and I can’t imagine the A/C would be up to scratch to prevent aerosol transmission either - as recent events would indicate all too well.

jrfsp 9th Feb 2021 06:10


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 10986646)
Perth Hyatt! How do divide this into 2 very separate areas?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2adf70285.jpeg

Probably some warning tape across the divide...."do not cross", im sure the virus knows this

McLimit 9th Feb 2021 07:47


Please also understand that all Premiers are acting on medical advice.
They are accepting medical advice that suits their political agenda. Anybody who trusts a politician in this environment is fool.

Global Aviator 9th Feb 2021 08:30


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10986695)
They are accepting medical advice that suits their political agenda. Anybody who trusts a politician in this environment is fool.

Only in this environment...............

currawong 9th Feb 2021 09:12

Remote quarantine, "controversial" a year ago...

"concerned about poor hygiene standards"

"too scared to touch their beds"


"worse than a prison"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...sland/11927300



SOPS 9th Feb 2021 09:28

HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.

morno 9th Feb 2021 09:31


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10986617)
Morno



Yes, I know very little about aviation having only worked for one airline and one defence/aerospace company apart from I.T, Government and the commercialization industry including sitting on the Board of a medical start up.

I received a private briefing from two key Covid investigators from the Peter Doherty Institute in March last year, the contents of which I shared on Pprune at the time which proved substantially correct.

The response I received then from one or two of your colleagues was exactly the same as yours.

If you continue to reject advice out of hand, no matter, or rather because of, the source, then you and your industry deserve your fate.

I still get tidbits, but I rarely share them.

I’ll take the official advice over something that a cranky old dude on pprune dishes out

Dannyboy39 9th Feb 2021 14:36


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10986766)
HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.

Why not go the whole hog and feed the 1 meal a day of gruel and replace hotel rooms with metal bars...

dr dre 9th Feb 2021 20:57


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10986766)
HQ is the problem. And it appears this new UK strain is showing positive after 16 days or more. Either we stop International Arrivals.. or we put them at isolated paces ( Christmas Island for example), for at least one month. 14 days it appears is no longer enough.

Very unlikely cases beyond 14 days incubation are suddenly showing up in Australian hotel quarantine. As the Vic CHO said yesterday it’s far more likely that the traveler was infected somehow during their last days of hotel quarantine and developed symptoms a few days out of quarantine.

It’s the hotel system that needs changing.

WingNut60 9th Feb 2021 21:04

And once you've infected a healthy person during their stay in your quarantine hotel, do you then charge them for the following 3 weeks in quarantine / hospital?

Seems like an open door for a damages suit.

Australopithecus 9th Feb 2021 21:13

The government is charging a hotel quarantine fee to arriving passengers. As you say, the door is open for damages, wide enough to drive a bus full of lawyers through.

Foxxster 9th Feb 2021 21:33


Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere (Post 10986648)
I’d bet London to a brick that the medical advice would have been remote quarantine.

Their political masters will have told the experts that’s not happening, make do with what you’ve got and provide ‘advice’ on the basis that hotel quarantine is the only option. That’s their ‘medical advice’. I suspect some politicians are regretting that decision, except the Feds who’ve managed to duck their constitutional responsibility with flair and aplomb.

The Holiday Inn/ Travelodge was a dive when it opened in the 70’s. It would be well past its use by date now and I can’t imagine the A/C would be up to scratch to prevent aerosol transmission either - as recent events would indicate all too well.


I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.

McLimit 9th Feb 2021 22:27


I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.
What?? You're saying there's an expert contradicting an expert?? No way champ. Doesn't fit the narrative.

McLimit 9th Feb 2021 22:34

Take some time to read the breathtaking arrogance from someone who had over 800 people die from decisions he was responsible for


Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has insisted his state won’t take as many returned travellers as NSW because his quarantine system has “higher standards”.

“This is not about boasting, it’s just a fact,” Premier Andrews told a press conference on Monday.

Victoria is due to increase its arrival limit from 1,120 to 1,310 next week in response to Prime Minister Scott Morrison ending a temporary reduction of numbers nationwide. However, these figures are substantially lower than NSW, which will return its cap to 3,010.

“We will have less capacity because we have a different model and I lead higher standards,” said Premier Andrews.

“I can say it because it’s true. And whether that’s convenient for people or not, is not really my concern. There’s not 3,500 private security working in our system. Do I need to go any further than that?

“If I was to align many of the criticisms that have been levied, over a long period of time, with what we do now, I’m very confident that we have a system that is worthy of being copied by others, and it is.

“If it was anything other than one of the best systems – the AMA over in WA were calling it the gold standard – they’re not terms I use, but that’s what they said, if it was anything other than a good system, then I doubt very much that the first ministers across the country would have agreed to copy it.

“It’s not a point of criticism of anyone else. They can speak to their systems. I’m simply making the point that we will not be getting to 3,000, because I don’t believe that 3,000 would be safe. That’s my judgment, and I’ll be accountable for that.”

Premier Andrews also listed the improvements made to the system following last year’s second wave of COVID cases that killed 801 people and is thought to have originated from the hotel quarantine system.

“We’ve ripped out the air conditioning in a number of these places and put new systems in, we’ve changed the way air flows, we rip up the carpet in all the common areas … so hallways for instance, and lino is put down so we can clean shared spaces where there could be a transmission to industrial standards,” he said.

“No one else does this. There’s 50 other points where we do things differently, sometimes significantly differently, sometimes it’s a smaller thing, but when you add all that together, it’s a very risk averse model.

“It needs to be, and I can’t rule out further changes.”

Nationwide, from 15 February, the new limits will be:
  • NSW 3,010 (now 1,505);
  • Queensland 1,000 (now 500);
  • Victoria 1,310 (now 1,120);
  • SA 530 (now 490);
  • WA 512 (now 512);
  • Total 6,362 (now 4,127).
In January, temporary cuts to the caps formed part of the biggest overhaul of the quarantine program since its inception, and also included a provision for passengers to wear masks on all domestic and international flights; for hotel staff to be tested daily and for ex-pats to require a negative result before boarding a repatriation flight.

Arrival caps were introduced in July and sat at 4,000, before increasing to 6,500 at the end of 2020 and then decreasing to just over 4,000 in January 2021.

Critics have argued limits have stopped Australians abroad being able to return home by reducing availability and increasing prices.
"I'm not having a go but......." What a load of horseshit. Megalomainiac, narcissist, sociopath.

Also, you lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot.

ruprecht 9th Feb 2021 22:39

Sticking healthy people in hotels with closed windows for 14 days and making them breathe recycled air with an airborne pathogen lurking is a recipe for disaster.

This is not going to end anytime soon.

Green.Dot 9th Feb 2021 22:39


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10987303)
Take some time to read the breathtaking arrogance from someone who had over 800 people die from decisions he was responsible for



"I'm not having a go but......." What a load of horseshit. Megalomainiac, narcissist, sociopath.

You lot from other States wonder why NSW shakes their heads at you lot.

Bro, almost anyone in the industry thinks he is a f#}kwit. Our thoughts won’t stop him getting re-elected though.

McLimit 9th Feb 2021 22:47

I know mate, but finally that ****wit is putting on paper how much of an a-hole he is. Meanwhile, the 'I stand with Dan' lemmings will ensure he remains in power for some time to come.


Bro, almost anyone in the industry thinks he is a f#}kwit. Our thoughts won’t stop him getting re-elected though.
Except Sunfish, he loves him :hmm:

KRviator 9th Feb 2021 23:03

So let's look at those new numbers, then consider them as a function of the Australian population.

Interestingly, though completely unsurprisingly, NSW is again carrying the lions share of the incoming passenger load, vastly over and above their fair share. And as has been proven many times over, from all states, this bug can get out of HQ. This bug will get out of HQ again. But the likes of QLD and WA in particular, see absolutely no issue with closing their borders to NSW as a result of that leakage, even though they are happy to let NSW process the overwhelming majority of returning travellers - and in the case of WA, demanding "28 days pestilence free" before they'll even think about reopening their borders. The WA hard border to NSW went up 05 April 2020, reopened 08 December, was reintroduced December 17 and remains current. That's a total of 303 days (over 80% of the last year) of NSWelshmen being unable to travel to WA, either at all, or without quarantining.

Perhaps Gladys needs to call their bluff.... "Alright you lot, you want to lock out NSW citizens over 1 case when we're doing the heavy lifting, fine! I'm closing our HQ system for returning passengers. You want them home? You deal with it. We've done our bit for the cause, and I'm not going to have my constituents punished through border closures, lost holidays, cancelled weddings and missed funerals because you're a bunch of selfish, paranoid & un-Australian asreholes!"
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0b291fc807.jpg

LapSap 9th Feb 2021 23:03


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 10987277)
I heard an interview from an expert from ANU yesterday. He said remote quarantine was NOT feasible.

An expert in what? Medicine? Transport logistics? Security? Air conditioning?
Not feasible from what perspective?
If he/she meant “hard work” or it might upset somebody rather than feasible, then tough sh1t. Get on with it.


Telfer86 9th Feb 2021 23:17

Quite incredible that Andrews is boasting after nearly 1000 deaths

Does anyone believe the "aerosol transmission" being promoted by Andrews Govt right now to explain latest infections of HQ in Melbourne ?

When will Qld & Tasmania close their borders to Victoria again ?

(can't figure out why Qld would still be open to Vict , when they closed to parts of WA , but I am dumb so maybe someone could explain this to me)

Update Midday: Now two staff from Airport Travelodge infected , building evacuated more infections expected. Talking about a nebuliser or something
, looking like a breakdown in basic protocol or lack of commonsense. Also a staff infection at City Hyatt

So is Melb facing an illusive , highly complex mode of transmission that is so much more difficult than anywhere else ? or is it just a breakdown of basic sh*t same as July 2020 ?

neville_nobody 9th Feb 2021 23:44

About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.

WingNut60 10th Feb 2021 00:06


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 10987336)
About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.

Regarding "want ...................the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep".
We may wish it, but we know better than to expect it.
And I can't help but see the irony in your expecting that an Asian invasion would target WA to the exclusion of the "eastern states".

jrfsp 10th Feb 2021 00:33


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 10987336)
About time a few premiers were summoned to a meeting in Canberra about the functioning of the Commonwealth. The fact there are a few out there who think they are a independent country in itself is a concern. The hypocrisy of it is that they still want federal grants and welfare paid for them and for the people from other states to defend them when a Chinese Armada turns up at their doorstep yet they won't enable the constitution to function as it is written.

"about the functioning of the Commonwealth" Quite right, they are responsible for quarantine after all!

SOPS 10th Feb 2021 01:03

It looks like Melbourne has community transmission again. Another lock down coming??

Foxxster 10th Feb 2021 01:32


Originally Posted by LapSap (Post 10987319)
An expert in what? Medicine? Transport logistics? Security? Air conditioning?
Not feasible from what perspective?
If he/she meant “hard work” or it might upset somebody rather than feasible, then tough sh1t. Get on with it.

go to the 59.30 mark.

Professor Peter Collingnon.

https://medicalschool.anu.edu.au/peo...r-collignon-am
he is a professor at the ANU, infectious disease expert. Goes for about 10 minutes. He goes through a number of things very well. And I think much better qualified than anyone posting here.

https://www.2gb.com/podcast/drive-wi...ow-february-8/


McLimit 10th Feb 2021 01:36


We may wish it, but we know better than to expect it.
We put well deserved shit on you, but really? You think that?

bekolblockage 10th Feb 2021 01:49

So DA has reversed the decision to increase overseas intake numbers due to the “load” on the system.
I heard the tail end of the federal briefing last week and could have sworn I heard the CMO state that l, at that moment, there were a total of 9 Covid patients hospitalised in the whole of Australia and zero in ICU. (1 as of a day or so ago I understand ).
Is this the “load” he is talking about?

clark y 10th Feb 2021 02:02

So apparently now this new strain is a hyper-infectious mutant strain.


https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...02f60e20444095

Telfer86 10th Feb 2021 02:18

All very high powered Dan & the gang talking about hyper infective mutant strains & thermo nuclear vortex effect spread through nebulisers

Does anyone believe this s**t ?

WingNut60 10th Feb 2021 02:21


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10987365)
We put well deserved shit on you, but really? You think that?

121 years of narking, patronising disparagement and we're supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about the eastern states? Really?

jrfsp 10th Feb 2021 02:22

Well AMA Victoria seems to...id imagine they are fairly qualified to comment.....All comes back to hotels not being suitable for quarantine purposes…how many times do we need to be told.

Taken from ABC:"The AMA's Julian Rait said risks posed by new highly infectuous strains highlighted the need for better air flow at these sites.

"The use of these nebulisers then this emphasizes there's need for greater scrutiny of the ventilation in hotel quarantine and we also need to look at it much more carefully because we know of the variants arising from the UK and South Africa and so," he said.

On Twitter, he said that many city hotels were "woefully inadequate" for quarantine purposes.

"The AMA would like to see the original ventilation audit to demonstrate that the Holiday Inn was safe to use in the first place," Professor Rait tweeted.

Foxxster 10th Feb 2021 02:37


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10987379)
Well AMA Victoria seems to...id imagine they are fairly qualified to comment.....All comes back to hotels not being suitable for quarantine purposes…how many times do we need to be told.

Taken from ABC:"The AMA's Julian Rait said risks posed by new highly infectuous strains highlighted the need for better air flow at these sites.

"The use of these nebulisers then this emphasizes there's need for greater scrutiny of the ventilation in hotel quarantine and we also need to look at it much more carefully because we know of the variants arising from the UK and South Africa and so," he said.

On Twitter, he said that many city hotels were "woefully inadequate" for quarantine purposes.

"The AMA would like to see the original ventilation audit to demonstrate that the Holiday Inn was safe to use in the first place," Professor Rait tweeted.

you are talking about Victoria. Who have shown themselves to be utterly incompetent. And when caught out, are led by someone whose default position is to blatantly and repeatedly lie.

if anyone thinks that a remote site managed ,using that word extremely loosely, by these fools would be any better than their keystone cops hotel quarantine then you need medical help yourselves. Of the psychiatric variety.

Telfer86 10th Feb 2021 03:06

All is well Premier Andrews had assured us that our HQ is superior to that of NSW - "that is just a fact" & he also told us we teach the other states about
all this stuff in his late night conference after 1st infection (1 week ago)

He has also assured us that guests will be asked not to use nebulisers & requested us not to blame or become angry with the man who did as that would just be mean

The other states just don't understand they are backwards we are the superior "education state"

All fixed now

itsnotthatbloodyhard 10th Feb 2021 03:40


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10987378)
121 years of narking, patronising disparagement and we're supposed to feel warm and fuzzy about the eastern states? Really?

To be fair, Queensland and Tasmania have always copped plenty of narking, patronising disparagement as well. So would SA, except that nobody cares enough about it to be bothered.

WingNut60 10th Feb 2021 04:22


Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard (Post 10987398)
To be fair, Queensland and Tasmania have always copped plenty of narking, patronising disparagement as well. So would SA, except that nobody cares enough about it to be bothered.

Very correct

jrfsp 10th Feb 2021 04:34

SA now looking to close to greater MEL, i reckon TAS, NT, ACT maybe QLD will follow


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:09.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.