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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 23rd Aug 2021, 21:24
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Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
Class action inbound.
This is not a pandemic.
Something much more sinister going on.
BINGO!!!!!!
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 23:02
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Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related. And like voting if you didn't respond, you probably lost your chance to affect any outcome. Qantas can impose the jab, there's precedence in child care and other industries that mandate vaccination or can't attend work, they just put you on sick leave until vaccinate, or leave and then it's done. Anyone thinking it's illegal and won't stand up in court is deluding themselves.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 23:39
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related. And like voting if you didn't respond, you probably lost your chance to affect any outcome. Qantas can impose the jab, there's precedence in child care and other industries that mandate vaccination or can't attend work, they just put you on sick leave until vaccinate, or leave and then it's done. Anyone thinking it's illegal and won't stand up in court is deluding themselves.

It will be interesting to see how they go about actually enforcing vaccinations. From what I have seen, they seem incapable of even enforcing proper government mandated mask wearing protocols. So if you can't even get someone to wear a mask, good luck getting them to inject an unwanted vaccination into their arm! (Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated).
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 23:50
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It will be interesting to see how they go about actually enforcing vaccinations. From what I have seen, they seem incapable of even enforcing proper government mandated mask wearing protocols. So if you can't even get someone to wear a mask, good luck getting them to inject an unwanted vaccination into their arm! (Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated).
Same with any company, you only get disciplined if you get caught out doing the wrong thing. Like speeding or any other civil offence, you have to be caught to be dealt with. That said if they require proof of vaccination and you forge that document, you will be terminated on the spot, I know the answer to that one, they could even refer it to authorities and charges could be laid.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 00:02
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Same with any company, you only get disciplined if you get caught out doing the wrong thing. Like speeding or any other civil offence, you have to be caught to be dealt with. That said if they require proof of vaccination and you forge that document, you will be terminated on the spot, I know the answer to that one, they could even refer it to authorities and charges could be laid.
I hear what you're saying. It's just that I don't see any action being taken on people refusing to wear masks. Maybe it all happens in the background but it seems like the management responsible see their role as simply to send an email out to state the requirement. Even when non compliance is identified and escalated, nothing appears to happen. I'm just interested to see if the vaccine mandate is treated any differently to the mask mandate. Ie: actually enforced and the threatened punitive action actually occurs.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 03:59
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Originally Posted by turbantime View Post
I hope you also don’t go to the hospital when you’re fighting for your life because they’re full of the medical experts that you despise. By you, I don’t literally mean you, I mean the anti-vaxxers.
I've never heard of anyone who despises medical staff in a hospital, clinic, emergency response service and the like but regardless that is a terrible thing to say to your fellow citizens and human beings and really does call into question your common decency.

Although you weren't referring to me, if I was not vaccinated and caught C-19 I would not expect to require hospitalisation because of my condition and because the prevalent Delta variant, while more communicable, is much less virulent. I'd sit at home and wait for my immune system to deal with it, just as I do with a cold or flu. The mainstream media don't report that in India, where Delta was cooked up, the death rate was 1/7th that of the western world's experience up to then. Muller's ratchet dictates deleterious mutational effects in asexual species reproduction which is what we're seeing here. That means it's less harmful to you and me. That means you needn't live in fear, Turban. Why should anyone be forced to submit to an investigational vaccine just for something which is becoming closer and closer to flu-like effect?

That said, if I hadn't had the vaccine and I caught C-19 and was suffering enough to require hospitalisation I would not hesitate to present myself to a hospital and demand all the services they provide and I wouldn't for one single moment consider not doing so just because pro-vaccine people didn't like my hypothetical decision. And you'd have to just like it.

It's becoming understood that catching the disease and developing a natural immune response is safer than catching it and being "immunised" later with the experimental vaccine and that the latter process is producing some very unpleasant hyperimmune response effects for those people. This happens because there's no requirement to screen test-subjects for anti-bodies prior to their "vaccination." Given that many people have been unknowingly exposed and asymptomatic, that's a roll of the dice you'd be crazy to make in the face of the much less virulent Delta strain. Good luck with that.

In the UK there are currently 15,000 breakthrough cases a day of Delta in the "vaccinated"; this rate would normally preclude approval of a vaccination by the regulator and yet the hysteria and rush to become "vaccinated" are fanned every day. Why would you bother with it, other than to assuage your personal and irrational fears?

The people who bully others into submitting to this experiment may well have a lot to answer for down the track.

Originally Posted by turbantime View Post
This would have to be the most scrutinized vaccine in history.
Seriously? Phase III trials usually take as long as four years before the drug is approved for broader use. In this case they tested the drugs on many times more people than normal in order to speed it up and called it Phase III trials. Conventionally they use those years to scrutinise the longer term effects of the drug. These drugs have not at all been scrutinised the way others have been. Everyone who's had this injection is a Phase IIIB guinea pig; a lab rat. Good luck.

Originally Posted by turbantime View Post
Because people like you are a health risk and will be directly responsible for filling up hospitals. Because people like you means that I don't get to enjoy further freedoms.
It's the people who are spreading unfounded fear amongst the population (including you and others here) and those who are making the decision to lock down the country over this much-less virulent Delta variant who are costing you your freedoms. Don't blame those who choose to examine the issue rationally for your own selfish plight even though your despicable leaders are encouraging you to do just that. Why do you believe everything you're told without at least questioning it?

Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
I hope all those that are worried about putting a vaccine in their body don't eat chicken or any other mass produced meat. Most cattle is poked and prodded with various antibiotics and vaccines these days, GM growth supplements etc... Even your veggies are probably assisted by lab altered gene splicing and such for pest and weed control, climatic resistance etc.... You are best not eating anything, better still hold your breath if you live near a farm or city, the stuff floating around in the atmosphere might affect you over the long term.....
That's funny. I'd be amazed if you're not aware there are easily accessible alternatives in mainstream supermarkets to those foods to which you've referred; there is "organic" chemical and hormone-free chicken and beef easily available and the F&V sections have produce grown without pesticides or genetic modification. Not much you can do about the air but you can filter your water. It all costs money though so most are content to eat and drink with eyes and mind closed to the reality of what they're consuming.

You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 04:32
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I agree with most of what you're say Mutley, however, here's my take on it,

I took the vaccine AZ not out of fear or dying and I do see it as experimental whether it is in fact or not. I do see myself as an experimental subject and knew that at the time. I concluded on account of my age and circumstances I would be the best place to start before the rest of my younger family roll up their sleeves.
I hope that there are no consequences in the longer term. Had I been 20 I would not have been at the front of the queue and I'm still not comfortable with that age group.

Having personal exposure to the effect of long covid I do honestly believe that if the vaccination solves that issue, which appears to be the case then it's a better way to go, although I believe the long term consequence of having been infected will be significant enough and yet to reveal itself.

I respect anyone's decision not to be vaccinated, that must remain a personal decision as must being vaccinated. If you choose not to, then don't get infected and I really don't know how you can avoid that and remain within our society.

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Old 24th Aug 2021, 04:35
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That's funny. I'd be amazed if you're not aware there are easily accessible alternatives in mainstream supermarkets to those foods to which you've referred; there is "organic" chemical and hormone-free chicken and beef easily available and the F&V sections have produce grown without pesticides or genetic modification. Not much you can do about the air but you can filter your water. It all costs money though so most are content to eat and drink with eyes and mind closed to the reality of what they're consuming.
Never said anything about hormones added to your meat, they get vaccinated with some pretty harsh stuff to keep them virus free as well, even the "natural" ones. People just worry about the growth hormones, don't realise all the other stuff gets pumped into and onto farm animals to keep them healthy. Filtered water removes some stuff, but you are not ever going to get to 100% H2O unless you have some serious science lab stuff.

You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
Actually in hindsight you are right, I'm far more likely to get cancer or a heart condition from car fumes and farm pesticides than anything I have to worry about in a vaccine. Thanks for highlighting that!

What I find even funnier is that this is a pilots forum, where you are encased in a Aluminium tube coated in horribly cancerous anti corrosion fluid, surrounded by hydrocarbon fittings that emit cancerous fumes when heated or exposed to UV, breathing bleed air that with small mechanical faults lets in mists of cancerous turbine oil and aircon lubricant while hurtling in a part of the atmosphere that offers little protection from solar radiation. And you care about the future effects of a vaccine that is doing everything it should, and well, with what is considered very small side effects compared to many other medicines. I could go on, but the kids might start getting scared of flying.

Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Aug 2021 at 05:02.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 07:06
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You're right about the prevalence of these toxins in our day-to-day world but to compare it to this investigational vaccine is disingenuous and ignorant and a pretty cheap shot.
Given Pfizer now has full FDA approval, you are no longer correct referring to it as an investigational vaccine.....may need to update your schtick.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 09:26
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
The adult approach would be to get vaccinated for your community and stop coming up with excuses as to why not.

Frankly the way people are harping on about these vaccines is like a 14 year old tantrum, irrational and making a scene for no reason.
Whilst I agree with most of what you say too 43, you need to understand that when someone is presented with something they don't know about or even unsure about and they believe they are being coerced into doing something without consideration, then they will respond adversely, possibly aggressively or even violently, it's our fundamental defensive reaction. Some 30 year olds in the unaffected states haven't even thought about it yet let alone discussed it, Think about it like someone is trying to sell you something you don't want and they won't take no for an answer.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 09:49
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This discussion is sooo 2020.


43Inches wrote:
Considering that only 4% of 12,000 respondents were against a vaccine mandate by Qantas there seems to be a fair weight of anti vaxers here with dubious stats and information. Sounds like the vast majority do not even work at Qantas or when given the chance they didn't respond. Pretty sure I only see a couple of names that are truly Qantas related.
You are spot on. A recent survey here into who writes anti vaccine posts on various internet forums, found a small group of people who produce a large amount of anti-vaxx posts. A few people making a lot of noise and they do it wherever they can. Seen any first time posters in this thread?
Believe it or not, but the vaccine resistance is organized with directions on how and what to say. They often point to what looks like official information, say you need to educate yourself, ask you not to trust the official information since the authorities have a hidden agenda, call normal information channels fake news, make claims that are incorrect, but difficult to prove not to be, all pro vaxx are sheep, and so on.
I even got a nicely done pamphlet in my mailbox (quite early on in the pandemic), describing a spiders web of who is trying to press us into taking the vaccines. Designed to scare me.

Why would anybody work so hard against something that is completely voluntary to do?

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Old 24th Aug 2021, 09:51
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Whilst I agree with most of what you say too 43, you need to understand that when someone is presented with something they don't know about or even unsure about and they believe they are being coerced into doing something without consideration, then they will respond adversely, possibly aggressively or even violently, it's our fundamental defensive reaction. Some 30 year olds in the unaffected states haven't even thought about it yet let alone discussed it, Think about it like someone is trying to sell you something you don't want and they won't take no for an answer.
Concur entirely. It is hard to judge though on here who is genuinely a lost soul that has got caught up in the "conspiracy" or is one of the protagonists pushing it and just recycling old information to swamp what's real out there or, just a pot stirrer amusing themselves.

I even got a nicely done pamphlet in my mailbox (quite early on in the pandemic), describing a spiders web of who is trying to press us into taking the vaccines. Designed to scare me.
I got one from Clive Palmer and his mob with a scare campaign similar. Everything was completely false and twisting facts to their angle.

Believe it or not, but the vaccine resistance is organized with directions on how and what to say.
I was introduced to some of those by some friends who were quoting their rubbish, they used what looked like fake names and profiles on facebook, lots of easy to disprove snippets from real studies and stats, but taken way out of context and misquoted. I can't work out if they really believe in anti-vax, are anarchists or just control freaks.

Last edited by 43Inches; 24th Aug 2021 at 10:03.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 10:18
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Originally Posted by ManaAdaSystem View Post
Why would anybody work so hard against something that is completely voluntary to do?
The purpose is to create distrust, unrest, civil strife, divide the people, in the hope of collapsing our democracy. There are a number of Authoritarian Regimes in a number of countries that would like to achieve that. As of Aug 31 we can probably add Afghanistan to that list.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 11:02
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Concur entirely. It is hard to judge though on here who is genuinely a lost soul that has got caught up in the "conspiracy" or is one of the protagonists pushing it and just recycling old information to swamp what's real out there or, just a pot stirrer amusing themselves.
I understand entirely and I'm sure you noticed I fell right into it myself only yesterday. Easy to get caught up in without careful consideration over time.

The other issue is that what we write has no body language and can easily be misinterpreted. Years ago I has a lecturer that what say "You will do this" and You will do that" after a day of that I was so infuriated I wanted to knock him out. That night among colleagues and telling the story, they said no mate he's a really good guy, english isn't his first language, are you sure he didn't mean "will you" oh! oh shit! he must think I'm the biggest arsehole that walks the planet.

Last edited by Xeptu; 24th Aug 2021 at 11:24.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 12:26
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I'm not a pilot. I do know that aeronautical pursuits involves science. Ergo, I would have thought that pilots would trust science more than say Tarot card readers or water diviners. From an SLF perspective, I'm more than happy that Qantas is mandating this. Any pilot that believes so strenuously that "Karen from Facebook" has all the answers when it comes to vaccines is not the dude I want behind the yoke when I am in the back. If a failure of some sort occurs, I want the crew to consult the aircraft manual for the correct procedure to fix the issue, rather than instead decide that there was a you-tube video last week from a 13 year old that showed an alternative solution, and we'll take their advice.
. .
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 12:43
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Originally Posted by Mk 1 View Post
I'm not a pilot. I do know that aeronautical pursuits involves science. Ergo, I would have thought that pilots would trust science more than say Tarot card readers or water diviners. From an SLF perspective, I'm more than happy that Qantas is mandating this. Any pilot that believes so strenuously that "Karen from Facebook" has all the answers when it comes to vaccines is not the dude I want behind the yoke when I am in the back. If a failure of some sort occurs, I want the crew to consult the aircraft manual for the correct procedure to fix the issue, rather than instead decide that there was a you-tube video last week from a 13 year old that showed an alternative solution, and we'll take their advice.
. .
Except that those making the Mandate are not pilots either and vaccines have nothing to do with what pilots do.

Since we're going to allow Companies to just make up laws why stop at vaccinations. You won't mind then if your company mandate all those over age 40 that are overweight and or have diabetes are in a high risk group to both yourself and those you work with, we therefore mandate those in that high risk group to resolve that condition by November 15. This is made after careful consideration of the undisputed science.
On that basis you'll be more than happy with that.

Last edited by Xeptu; 24th Aug 2021 at 13:52.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 20:52
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Except that those making the Mandate are not pilots either and vaccines have nothing to do with what pilots do.

Since we're going to allow Companies to just make up laws why stop at vaccinations. You won't mind then if your company mandate all those over age 40 that are overweight and or have diabetes are in a high risk group to both yourself and those you work with, we therefore mandate those in that high risk group to resolve that condition by November 15. This is made after careful consideration of the undisputed science.
On that basis you'll be more than happy with that.
But pilots want to fly.

How many non believers are going to sell their souls for pieces of silver (vaccine)?

Ex reservations consultant now retired and fully vaccinated.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 21:49
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Originally Posted by Chris2303 View Post
But pilots want to fly.

How many non believers are going to sell their souls for pieces of silver (vaccine)?

Ex reservations consultant now retired and fully vaccinated.
Troo believers trust the science.

Some of the smartest people on the planet have been involved in the research and development of the COVID vaccines. Budgets worth billions. Thousands of scientists, doctors, immunologists and virologists yet the non believers think theyíre smarter with a glass of red and half an hour using google to confirm their bias.

The next time you get on an aeroplane how do you know itís safe to fly on? Is the engineering up to scratch? Has the Captain had a bender the night before due to their divorce. What about the F/O whom just scraped through on their last sim. Nope you get onboard having faith and trust in those appointed as specialists in their field to keep you safe so you can recline knowing that the thousands of engineers and pilots that built and fly the machine are experts in what they do.

At what point in society do we acknowledge and let the experts make the call? What makes the ignorant suddenly such experts on immunology and vaccines? Do you even know what a confidence interval or p value is? Let us all know when you understand the full gamut of the subject otherwise youíre not qualified to comment.Iím certainly not either.

I trust the science. Iím not smart enough to know otherwise and Iím certainly no expert in any of the above fields but Iím humble enough to know what I donít know and thatís a significant amount.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 22:20
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Originally Posted by machtuk View Post
they have indeed gone missing Keg, seems dictatorship/censorship is infiltrating these pages!
Itís been well publicised that it ďwent missingĒ from a number of mainstream forums as well, when it was exposed as complete BS.
Alan Jones either maliciously or stupidly failing to understand data. Ironically backed up by Craig Kelly calling for having government officials that ďcan understand the dataĒ.

Freedom of speech isnít the same thing as telling dangerous lies.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 03:26
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heh.
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