Qantas Recruitment

[A320 Flyer]

Originally Posted by 43Inches

Where is the line to say yes to a 737 job for $275K paid out on my second day, I'm in!!

There must be a few current QF 737 drivers looking for that $275k right now, where'd it go, hmm, damn it Alan must have stolen it if I didn't say yes loud enough.

Year 4 on the 737 you can but you’re working a bit. Certainly nowhere near 1000 a year if you know how to make the agreement work but 275 is possible.

[Makiko]

Its easy to find for those who cannot

Just open the Contract & read the part where it says FO Base $160K for 53.5 hours 28 days (part A)

Then you do some OT(part B) , you will have to work pretty hard for this brass & allowances (part C)

& you have A + B + C = $275K

" i'm in" well it isn't as easy as that if you are an external applicant

Over past 15 years there have been 3 two week windows where applications have been open to externals

You will have to compete against 2000 other people , 25% will get a test , maybe 10% will get a job

You might find it an easier pathway to join group airline & transfer under their now annual mainline program - exclusive to Group Pilots

So clearly there isn't a charge out the door at ML to SIA to halve your income, and it exceeds to joys of ACMI flying at Atlas

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Originally Posted by Makiko

Its easy to find for those who cannot

Just open the Contract & read the part where it says FO Base $160K for 53.5 hours 28 days (part A)

Then you do some OT(part B) , you will have to work pretty hard for this brass & allowances (part C)

& you have A + B + C = $275K

Sure. But you’d need to be flying about 85 hrs/roster for the entire year, when FO divisors are currently in the mid 60s. And even if it was possible, would you really want to?

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard

Sure. But you’d need to be flying about 85 hrs/roster for the entire year, when FO divisors are currently in the mid 60s. And even if it was possible, would you really want to?

Fairly easy to pick up extra work if you want.

But on regular hours almost all F/Os, regardless on Yr 1 or 4, will make $200k+ this year, and most I’d say around $230-240k.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Originally Posted by aussieflyboy

You can see the world and come home with a house half paid off and grab a quick CMD at one of QFs subsidiary’s. You’ll end up with more money at retirement then if you went to QF as a SO and you’ll actually see the world.

See the World at EK or actually just the inside of a generic airport hotel on you min slip turnaround?

[havick]

Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster

See the World at EK or actually just the inside of a generic airport hotel on you min slip turnaround?

If you really want to see the world, corporate (large cabin) is where it’s at. The money and lifestyle is pretty good too.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by havick

If you really want to see the world, corporate (large cabin) is where it’s at. The money and lifestyle is pretty good too.

Horses for courses. I’ve had corporate pilots complain you’re at the beck and call of an executive, can spend lots of time away from home, be called out to fly on a whim, have schedules changed at the last minute making forward planning impossible. Some of the Execs they work for and are in close contact with are also the most horrible people you could ever imagine.

[SandyPalms]

You may be right dre, but havick is specifically talking about seeing the world. Not the quality of the job.

QF’s network is great. Except in Europe, but they do seem to be trying to improve that in the future. Fingers crossed.

I’ll leave Uganda and Burkina Faso to the Emirates folks. Not really my cup of tea.

[havick]

Originally Posted by dr dre

Horses for courses. I’ve had corporate pilots complain you’re at the beck and call of an executive, can spend lots of time away from home, be called out to fly on a whim, have schedules changed at the last minute making forward planning impossible. Some of the Execs they work for and are in close contact with are also the most horrible people you could ever imagine.

Depends on the flight department. There’s quite a few gems out there that have more than enough pilots to schedule and not be on call.

[Icarus2001]

QF’s network is great. Except in Europe,

Tell me about all the Asian ports...

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by Makiko

Its easy to find for those who cannot

Just open the Contract & read the part where it says FO Base $160K for 53.5 hours 28 days (part A)

Then you do some OT(part B) , you will have to work pretty hard for this brass & allowances (part C)

& you have A + B + C = $275K

" i'm in" well it isn't as easy as that if you are an external applicant

Over past 15 years there have been 3 two week windows where applications have been open to externals

You will have to compete against 2000 other people , 25% will get a test , maybe 10% will get a job

You might find it an easier pathway to join group airline & transfer under their now annual mainline program - exclusive to Group Pilots

So clearly there isn't a charge out the door at ML to SIA to halve your income, and it exceeds to joys of ACMI flying at Atlas

But including OT is an unfair comparison, I know SAAB captains at Rex that will nudge $250k this year. Would you rather fly a SAAB than work for SIA/EK? It's not all about cash as well. Also your point was that you would be on that coin on day 2 of working for QF, so would have to be direct entry for that to happen and onto a 737 and immediately earning $275k is unlikely. And to counter any talk about carreer progression on the SAAB, how long before you can get a wide body command at QF compare to the likes of EK, which is where the real money flows.

Tell me about all the Asian ports...

Yes, apart from having significant flight schedules to Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and South America they have a fantastic network to all destinations.

[dr dre]

I mean it’s all up to personal preference. But when mainline open up recruitment they get thousands of applicants. They have enough on the hold file to fill courses for a year (what other Aussie carrier can say that) and when they reopen applications again sometime in the next 12 months for only a few weeks they’ll get a few thousand more applications, that’ll stock the coffers for the next 3-4 years in the future.

Most Australians want to live in Australia, and mainline has the best T&Cs and overall career prospects of anyone based here. With the only exception being a quick command, you’ll have to go elsewhere for that.

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by dr dre

I mean it’s all up to personal preference. But when mainline open up recruitment they get thousands of applicants. They have enough on the hold file to fill courses for a year (what other Aussie carrier can say that) and when they reopen applications again sometime in the next 12 months for only a few weeks they’ll get a few thousand more applications, that’ll stock the coffers for the next 3-4 years in the future.

Most Australians want to live in Australia, and mainline has the best T&Cs and overall career prospects of anyone based here. With the only exception being a quick command, you’ll have to go elsewhere for that.

I agree to a point, conditions are being eroded regularly at Mainline QF though, so who knows where you will stand in 10 years, especially when it takes so long to move through the ranks. Already Rex has overtaken QLink dash 8 pay so offers better pay and conditions than the equivalent QF sub. How long will mainline be the top conditions into the future. Granted Rex management keep kicking own goals in staff treatment, but QLink does much the same so who knows where either will be in a few years given the pilot drain. VA and Rex 737 operations might pull a rabbit out of the hat and suddenly start competing for workforce. So its very much in a state of flux at the moment wrt to pay and conditions in the industry.

[Makiko]

Why is including OT " unfair" , OT is scheduled & more available

The minimum of 53.5 hours per 28 days or month (can't remember) is likely the lowest in the world

Nobody saying the large OS carriers wouldn't be fun & an experience

But they have all changed a lot the ME3 don't count bunk time as "stick time" so you fly 50% more than BA, AF , Luftansa etc

SIA well you might get "best practise" rosters the expat allowances have gone

I would be telling your SAAB friend to join the QF group(or Virgin,Alliance) get some jet time , unlikely to be competitive for Sing/ME

43 could you detail specifically where the conditions at ML have been eroded ( Yes understand there is now a B Scale for Airbus SOs - but that was voted in by the QF pilots ) . Aside from that I doubt you could detail anything

[43Inches]

Originally Posted by Makiko

Why is including OT " unfair" , OT is scheduled & more available

The minimum of 53.5 hours per 28 days or month (can't remember) is likely the lowest in the world

Nobody saying the large OS carriers wouldn't be fun & an experience

But they have all changed a lot the ME3 don't count bunk time as "stick time" so you fly 50% more than BA, AF , Luftansa etc

SIA well you might get "best practise" rosters the expat allowances have gone

I would be telling your SAAB friend to join the QF group(or Virgin,Alliance) get some jet time , unlikely to be competitive for Sing/ME

43 could you detail specifically where the conditions at ML have been eroded ( Yes understand there is now a B Scale for Airbus SOs - but that was voted in by the QF pilots ) . Aside from that I doubt you could detail anything

Mid east carriers have taken direct from the SAAB in the past, if they are desperate enough, the jet time requirement turns into turbine time and so on. In any case I think most Rex pilots have a resume in somewhere or are waiting on start dates. I was using that as an indication that you can make close to that income flying a 30 seat turboprop, so comparing someone flying a 180+ seat jet is only earning $25k more. Those chasing quick cash all jumped at Atlas anyway and the US conditions on offer atm. There's a good chunk of ex-rex pilots representing in every airline in Australia.

I seem to remember some pay freezes and such going on at ML for a number of years, would that not be an erosion of conditions to begin with, and if you are not achieving at least CPI on your yearly increments you are losing ground.

[Makiko]

You would be entirely incorrect 43

The latest SH & LH EBAs , late 2019 & early 2020 , bought with them healthy annual pay raises & all sorts
of improvements to T & Cs . Juicy pay rates for the A350

As did the SH/LH EBAs 3 / 4 years before

And the SH/LH EBAs again 3/4 years before that

There has never been a pay freeze in ML

Can you please outline where specifically TCs have been eroded ?

[Icarus2001]

Mid east carriers have taken direct from the SAAB in the past, if they are desperate enough, the jet time requirement turns into turbine time and so on.

I can remember when Emirates wanted jet time > 50 tonnes MTOW, then it became 2000 jet, then turbprop time, then a warm body and a pulse.

They are fickle when they can be, at present they want CURRENT Airbus and Boeing pilots. Next month, who knows.

[43Inches]

Depends how you look at worth, year 1 in 2011 was $109k inflation makes that worth $151k in Australia today, but current base is $145k. For a year 4 $119k in 2011 is worth $162k today, current EBA is $157k. That's an erosion, as it has not kept pace with inflation.

I've been in the game long enough to see the swings and roundabouts at work. The gap between QF and the others has definitely waned over the past 30 years. You only get OT when OT is available, plenty right now, what happens when the music stops and your chair is fixed.

[SandyPalms]

Originally Posted by Icarus2001

Tell me about all the Asian ports...

what do you want to know about them?

I presume you’re suggesting that there isn’t many, and that may be true, but QF flys to:
Indonesia (2 destinations)
Singapore
Thailand
India (2 destinations)
Philippines
China HK
China (not yet, but it’s in the schedule)
Japan
South Korea
United Kingdom
Italy
USA (5 different destinations)
Canada
Chile
New Zealand
Tonga, Samoa, PNG, New Caledonia and Fiji (but no one overnights there)
South Africa
and they have stated their desire to add France.
And of course, all over Australia

It may only be 1 destination in most of them, but how many cities in a any country do you need in order to experience a country?
I think that’s pretty good, and I can live in Australia to do it. If you’d rather go elsewhere, go elsewhere.

The biggest problem is the different fleets, so no one goes to all of them, but the A330/350 fleet (if it’s approved by CASA) would touch most of them.



Not a bad spread if you ask me.

[RealSatoshi]

Originally Posted by 43Inches

...if you are not achieving at least CPI on your yearly increments you are losing ground.

That there is the MOST important part of the EBA puzzle missing in Australian aviation.

CPI to CPI increases from EBA to EBA simply means you are holding your own against a predetermined basket of goods - albeit not really, as those goods are usually ones catering more for the working class than the professional class. This means that even on CPI to CPI increases from EBA to EBA your pilot lifestyle will be going backwards.

If the unions got it right, EBA's would be CPI (guaranteed) increases year-on-year - not up for negotiation - with the CPI(+) portion negotiated in response to productivity improvements, EIS of new types and/or market forces.

It is not Rocket Science people...or is it...?