MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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Joyce Has Nothing to Lose
Unlike most Qantas Employees Joyce has nothing to lose.He doesnt have a wife or kids and on his package he doesnt have a mortgage.If everything turns to mud he can return to Ireland with a handsome payout and retire.
He has no emotional attachment to Qantas or Australia.
The grounding of the entire Qantas fleet is evidence of that .In almost every management employee confrontation mangment wins.They have power and they have very deep corporate pockets.All workers have is their capacity to work.
On a personal level this makes me ill.
So Qantas employees need to put emotion aside and decide whether to go or stay.Many employees have unlike Joyce have an emotional attachment.
Some families have been with Qantas for three generations.Many have already made a decision and gone elsewhere.Many employees have been embraced by Virgin who appear to treat their employees with respect.
So do you stay and fight an unwinable war or move to greener pastures.
A very difficult decision.Stay work on your knees and remain angry or leave and stand tall ?
He has no emotional attachment to Qantas or Australia.
The grounding of the entire Qantas fleet is evidence of that .In almost every management employee confrontation mangment wins.They have power and they have very deep corporate pockets.All workers have is their capacity to work.
On a personal level this makes me ill.
So Qantas employees need to put emotion aside and decide whether to go or stay.Many employees have unlike Joyce have an emotional attachment.
Some families have been with Qantas for three generations.Many have already made a decision and gone elsewhere.Many employees have been embraced by Virgin who appear to treat their employees with respect.
So do you stay and fight an unwinable war or move to greener pastures.
A very difficult decision.Stay work on your knees and remain angry or leave and stand tall ?
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If it was unsafe / too stressful to take off two days before an impending lockout, what about landing flights that were in the air when the grounding was announced? Were those on board at that time endangered?
Amos, your recent posts make me think you are getting senile. Let me paint the picture for you again!
As a result of the initial EBA meetings it was obvious that ALL Qantas pilots would be made redundant (over the next few years) and replaced by pilots based offshore - if we didn't fight we were definitely going to lose our jobs, by fighting management, there was a possibility of retaining them.
It is very clear and unambiguous so I can't understand your position.
As a result of the initial EBA meetings it was obvious that ALL Qantas pilots would be made redundant (over the next few years) and replaced by pilots based offshore - if we didn't fight we were definitely going to lose our jobs, by fighting management, there was a possibility of retaining them.
It is very clear and unambiguous so I can't understand your position.
Nunc est bibendum
Management would have been careful not to announce it via ACARS or official communication, right? Do pilots have access to other communication networks prior to landing?
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Going Boeing, the only reason to replace the incumbent pilot workforce would be to introduce a new workforce on lower terms and conditions.
Did the Union ever consider finding out what changes they would need to make to become the pilot workforce of choice?
Did the Union ever consider finding out what changes they would need to make to become the pilot workforce of choice?
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Are you kidding? Aipa has asked "what do you need from us to get the nod" to be met with blank stares....
They don't want us.... Full stop.
Why? That bit I can't work out.
They don't want us.... Full stop.
Why? That bit I can't work out.
Did the Union ever consider finding out what changes they would need to make to become the pilot workforce of choice?
Posted by Amos2
"grow some balls"
"grow some balls"
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Going Boeing, thanks for that. Well then I am mystified why they are doing what they are doing. I stand by my comments on a different thread though, that against your competition from overseas you are paid too handsomely. A lot of that is due to previous management, and a lot due to Australia's inflation.
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Just found this link:
QANTAS – Finally the truth is coming out! | OzHouse Alt News
Sorry if its been posted before.
QANTAS – Finally the truth is coming out! | OzHouse Alt News
Sorry if its been posted before.
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Only one winner
There was only ever going to be one winner, and yes, I hear the bell ringing - And the winner is Qantas management!!
And a superb win at that. QF management are superior in intellect, we didn't graduate from accounting just to be outwitted by a bunch of dirty fingered mechanics and luggage lifters, please, give me a break.
The QF management team have truly earned their keep this week. Think about it? QF is the mother, the teat if you like, and the unions, shareholders and government are the suckling babe who cling to QF for their lifeline. It is a symbiotic relationship, but one that QF has the deepest of respect for.
1.First of all a brilliant outcome at the AGM. Management were justifiably rewarded for the excellent work they have undertaken in the past year. The remuneration packages for executives and the board are fair and reasonable, and a solid investment in keeping the key leaders moving the organization forward. To all the shareholders out there we thank you for your support.
2. The unions were outplayed, as well as the staff. A brilliant manouver that will go down in the analls of history. Management actually found the enemy quite easy to outwit.
3. The labor government were also outsmarted. This was a magnificently orchestrated move on the chess board. The long term gains of outsmarting the government will be reflected in a shareholder dividend, most likely in 2025 when the 787 comes onboard. It may take time but hey, it is worth the wait, and in these challenging economic times any dividend is proof that management are totally in charge.
4. The grounding of the fleet was particularly thoughtful of management. The undue stress that was being placed on staff was totally out of sync with the need for a 'just culture'. Management felt that in the interests of a just culture and under OHS legislation it would be prudent, even predictive ether than reactive, and in the best interest of staff health. Sadly this fact has been twisted by some in the media an some of our dear employees.
5. Shareholder value. It is important to consider the real heroes in this saga - the investor. They are both heroic and inspirational. They have endured countless stock downgrades, lack of dividends being paid, a lack of solid I any return on their investment, yet they loyally stick by the company's directors. They are inspirational, the unsung hero.
6. The passenger. Although a handful were inconvenienced, they understand that the grounding was undertaken with their best interest at heart. Management have no doubt that the fare paying public will fully agree on this point. Management look forward to putting this glitch and minor nuisance behind us as we embark on a new era, a new generation, the dawning if a new day in aviation.
QF management eagerly look forward to many more years directing this magnificent ship. Management are consumed with building a stronger brand and strategically conquering the Asian aviation market. Management aren't focused on the destination, it is the journey that lay ahead that is lined with streets paved out of gold.
Yes, this week has been monumental, a successful AGM, the unions crushed, a labor government outwitted and payrises and bonuses. It is a time for reflection, a time to prepare for the next journey, a time to rejoyce...
And a superb win at that. QF management are superior in intellect, we didn't graduate from accounting just to be outwitted by a bunch of dirty fingered mechanics and luggage lifters, please, give me a break.
The QF management team have truly earned their keep this week. Think about it? QF is the mother, the teat if you like, and the unions, shareholders and government are the suckling babe who cling to QF for their lifeline. It is a symbiotic relationship, but one that QF has the deepest of respect for.
1.First of all a brilliant outcome at the AGM. Management were justifiably rewarded for the excellent work they have undertaken in the past year. The remuneration packages for executives and the board are fair and reasonable, and a solid investment in keeping the key leaders moving the organization forward. To all the shareholders out there we thank you for your support.
2. The unions were outplayed, as well as the staff. A brilliant manouver that will go down in the analls of history. Management actually found the enemy quite easy to outwit.
3. The labor government were also outsmarted. This was a magnificently orchestrated move on the chess board. The long term gains of outsmarting the government will be reflected in a shareholder dividend, most likely in 2025 when the 787 comes onboard. It may take time but hey, it is worth the wait, and in these challenging economic times any dividend is proof that management are totally in charge.
4. The grounding of the fleet was particularly thoughtful of management. The undue stress that was being placed on staff was totally out of sync with the need for a 'just culture'. Management felt that in the interests of a just culture and under OHS legislation it would be prudent, even predictive ether than reactive, and in the best interest of staff health. Sadly this fact has been twisted by some in the media an some of our dear employees.
5. Shareholder value. It is important to consider the real heroes in this saga - the investor. They are both heroic and inspirational. They have endured countless stock downgrades, lack of dividends being paid, a lack of solid I any return on their investment, yet they loyally stick by the company's directors. They are inspirational, the unsung hero.
6. The passenger. Although a handful were inconvenienced, they understand that the grounding was undertaken with their best interest at heart. Management have no doubt that the fare paying public will fully agree on this point. Management look forward to putting this glitch and minor nuisance behind us as we embark on a new era, a new generation, the dawning if a new day in aviation.
QF management eagerly look forward to many more years directing this magnificent ship. Management are consumed with building a stronger brand and strategically conquering the Asian aviation market. Management aren't focused on the destination, it is the journey that lay ahead that is lined with streets paved out of gold.
Yes, this week has been monumental, a successful AGM, the unions crushed, a labor government outwitted and payrises and bonuses. It is a time for reflection, a time to prepare for the next journey, a time to rejoyce...
Last edited by Management In Charge; 31st Oct 2011 at 11:34.
Nobody likes what has happened. But life is short. You enjoying flying. You have a pretty good life in probably the best country in the world. Sometimes being happy with what you have is far better than being unhappy about what you dont have
There will always be Jobs for Australian pilots at Qantas, in our lifetimes, both domestically and internationally. To what extent and in what numbers we do not know. If you want to continue being part of it you get on with the job, keep your head clean and enjoy your career. If you take the smart road you will likely have a job to retirement. Become a stirrer and a **** fighter and you may well find yourself creating so much stress for yourself that you will hate your life. Enjoy
There will always be Jobs for Australian pilots at Qantas, in our lifetimes, both domestically and internationally. To what extent and in what numbers we do not know. If you want to continue being part of it you get on with the job, keep your head clean and enjoy your career. If you take the smart road you will likely have a job to retirement. Become a stirrer and a **** fighter and you may well find yourself creating so much stress for yourself that you will hate your life. Enjoy
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This bit did make me laugh well done.
Yes, this week has been monumental, a successful AGM, the unions crushed, a labor government outwitted and payrises and bonuses. It is a time for reflection, a time to prepare for the next journey, a time to rejoyce...
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Of course there will be always jobs in Qantas for Australian pilots 1A, but its just that the majority of Australian pilots would prefer that Australian engineers fix the buggers, and Australian flight attendants do their thing down the back, you would not think that unreasonable now would you? Well according to Mr. Joyce you are all being very unreasonable, because for half the price he can get the job done (hopefully) and a set of steak knives thrown in, by those from a country that pays peanuts. And he wonders why the staff are behaving badly.
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Highlights from tonight's 7.30 report..... some good stuff here for those who missed it...
King William III, sorry mate, I could have put it better, "It's all good" did refer to the 2nd video, the reason why I broke it up. I also feel the ABC have really taken this issue buy the horns since AJ refused to go on air for a second day in a row. more later on that...
Am I the only one that thinks Joyce wanted a "suspension" so that he could then keep the airline grounded for non-fwa reasons and start making staff redundant?
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Am I the only one that thinks Joyce wanted a "suspension" so that he could then keep the airline grounded for non-fwa reasons and start making staff redundant?
I'm suspecting that there won't be an agreement at the end of 21 days, the "Umpire" will make a ruling, and it will wipe out the current EBA's, starting from that date, no back pay with greatly reduced conditions.
If there does happen to be some dialogue between the warring parties, it will be a flat 2.5% to 3%, end of story. The rest of the log of claims will be discarded, people will go back to work, and QANTAS will be one big happy harmonious family with Alan Joyce steering us into a brighter, stronger and more certain future.
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Me thinks the Australian public and the world at large cannot be fooled for too long...the recent engine problems with QF planes looked very suspicious. Blame outsourcing.......... the QF board knows better, they had picked the brains of other airline management and professionals, not forgetting the manufacturers. Pilot safety, safe pilots; well this is 2011 and nobody gets easily fooled by all those grandiose claims of superiority of those false sky gods.
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The Problem Is:Management in Charge
Qantas management is both elitist and adversarial
They claim success for the brand and yet are known as "the visitors"
To gloat over sticking the boot into the workforce is indicative of a Hitlerian mentality.
What we have here are dysfunctional educated idiots claiming credit for the success of a business built on the sweat,integrity and intellect of others over 90 years
Other corporations are inclusive of their workforce and reap the benefits.
Corporate bullies can sometimes end up incarcerated.An outcome the dilettante author of the post 891 should take time to consider.
Being someone's girlfriend for that poster should prove for him an interesting experience.
It most certainly has entertainment value for many who frequent this forum
They claim success for the brand and yet are known as "the visitors"
To gloat over sticking the boot into the workforce is indicative of a Hitlerian mentality.
What we have here are dysfunctional educated idiots claiming credit for the success of a business built on the sweat,integrity and intellect of others over 90 years
Other corporations are inclusive of their workforce and reap the benefits.
Corporate bullies can sometimes end up incarcerated.An outcome the dilettante author of the post 891 should take time to consider.
Being someone's girlfriend for that poster should prove for him an interesting experience.
It most certainly has entertainment value for many who frequent this forum
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Its interesting to note that in all the press and tv reports today, they talk about how the management are going to repair the business by getting back the customers.Not one report asks how the management is going to get its now totally disengaged 35000 staff back on line.
This is a service industry and lets not forget that!.We do not all work on a factory production line and therefore have to obey each command from the factory foreman.The company cannot force you to smile or go that extra mile for a customer.People will go into work,do their day and go home..Nothing more, nothing less..
I can safely say that they can shove their next Engagement Surveys up their ar*e!!..(if they have the audacity to bring another one out that is).
With staff goodwill gone,morale shattered,interest evaporated AJ and co will lead a force of zombies!..They may have won this battle, but will lose the war in the long run.
Its not only outdated Engineering practices that will bring this airline down, its outdated management style..You only have to look at the positive moves at ANZ or VA.
The only solution now is to bring onboard a CEO that knows how to extract the best from his staff and find a Chairman who has a passion for putting this company back on top, instead of spending his well paid time annilating eveyone who doesn't seem to share his views..
This is a service industry and lets not forget that!.We do not all work on a factory production line and therefore have to obey each command from the factory foreman.The company cannot force you to smile or go that extra mile for a customer.People will go into work,do their day and go home..Nothing more, nothing less..
I can safely say that they can shove their next Engagement Surveys up their ar*e!!..(if they have the audacity to bring another one out that is).
With staff goodwill gone,morale shattered,interest evaporated AJ and co will lead a force of zombies!..They may have won this battle, but will lose the war in the long run.
Its not only outdated Engineering practices that will bring this airline down, its outdated management style..You only have to look at the positive moves at ANZ or VA.
The only solution now is to bring onboard a CEO that knows how to extract the best from his staff and find a Chairman who has a passion for putting this company back on top, instead of spending his well paid time annilating eveyone who doesn't seem to share his views..