Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 2nd Nov 2011, 09:08
  #1041 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: FL290
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
email from AJ

Email received

Hello XXXXXX

Now that Qantas has resumed normal operations I would like to update you on what the recent decision by Fair Work Australia means for you.

I apologise sincerely for any inconvenience that you or your family experienced during the grounding of the Qantas fleet between Saturday evening and Monday afternoon.

The decision to lock out some of our employees was an immensely difficult one and one that I did not want to have to make. But it was a decision that we were driven to by the industrial action of three unions, together representing less than 20 percent of Qantas employees.

As of last Friday, industrial action by those unions had forced the cancellation of hundreds of flights, disrupted 70,000 passengers and cost Qantas $68 million. Two union leaders had warned that industrial action could continue into next year.

This would have had a devastating effect on our customers, on all Qantas employees and on the businesses which depend on Qantas services.

On Saturday, I came to the conclusion that this crisis had to end. I made the decision to proceed with a lock-out, the only form of protected industrial action available to Qantas under the Fair Work Act, so that agreement could be reached quickly.

Unfortunately, it was necessary as a precautionary measure to ground the fleet immediately after the announcement that a lock-out would take place. While I deeply regret the short-term impact of the fleet being grounded, following the Fair Work Australia decision we now have absolute certainty for our customers. No further industrial action can take place. No more aircraft will be grounded and no services cancelled as a result of industrial action.

You can now book Qantas flights with complete confidence. This is an immeasurably better situation than last Friday, when Qantas faced the prospect of ongoing disruptions, perhaps for another 12 months.

We have now moved into 21 days of negotiations with each of the unions with the assistance of Fair Work Australia. All parties will be treated equally in order to reach reasonable agreements. If this cannot happen, binding arbitration will take place to secure an outcome. We will respect whatever decisions are reached.

Regardless of how and when the agreements are reached, the period of uncertainty and instability for Qantas is over. We are moving forward and putting this dispute behind us.

Our focus now is on our customers. We want to restore your faith by returning our on-time performance to its normal high levels, continuing to invest in new aircraft and lounges and ensuring the best possible in-flight experience.

The end of industrial action means we can concentrate on what matters – getting you to your destination on time and in comfort, offering the best network and frequency of any Australian airline and rewarding your loyalty as a Qantas Frequent Flyer.

Thank you for your patience and for your continued support of Qantas.



Alan Joyce
1a sound asleep is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 09:25
  #1042 (permalink)  
Sprucegoose
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
How do we know that crews were told inflight about the grounding? Were acars messages sent?
A friend who was about halfway through a long sector when it happened, said his crew new nothing about until they were told by ground staff at their destination.
Howard Hughes is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 09:28
  #1043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 101
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I think it's gunna cost AJ a little more than he and the board thought:


-- Qantas had offered customers refunds, the opportunity to rebook flights and compensation for expenses incurred by certain travellers. The airline was dealing with other claims on a case by case basis.

ACCC chairman Rod Sims said while that addressed some of the commission’s concerns, it didn’t go far enough.

‘‘These circumstances are extraordinary and there have been a huge number of passengers significantly affected,’’ Mr Sims said. ‘‘It is squarely in the airline’s camp to make good.

‘‘If you have incurred additional expenses as a result of the grounding, the ACCC is of the view that Qantas should compensate you for all your reasonable losses.’’ ---

AAP

That sounds a lot more expensive than the Qantas proposal to me

(sorry, don't know how to insert quote - and just plain too damn lazy to look it up right know - will do better!)
Bankstown Boy is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 09:31
  #1044 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AJ - Unfortunately, it was necessary as a precautionary measure to ground the fleet immediately after the announcement that a lock-out would take place.
AJ had to ground the fleet, one of the reasons being an impending lockout would otherwise result in pilots on the job & not focussing on tasks at hand.

I assume AJ did the same sort of risk assessment during the "alleged" death threats earlier this year.

Wouldn't want a CEO on the job & not focussed on tasks at hand.
Mstr Caution is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 09:36
  #1045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bangkok & Vegas
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1a please don't take any engaged love away from the richard cranium.

That stupid letter was signed something more touchy feely, only his first name,
as if we're mates. Yep, see you at the pub soon ****.

Makes me sick just thinking of it.

Funny how he states 'unions representing less than 20% of the QF workforce' as if it is insignificant yet look at the actions to quell it......

Douche
Mr Leslie Chow is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:04
  #1046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Western Australia
Age: 57
Posts: 808
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AJ had to ground the fleet, one of the reasons being an impending lockout would otherwise result in pilots on the job & not focussing on tasks at hand.

I assume AJ did the same sort of risk assessment during the "alleged" death threats earlier this year.
To play devils advocate, most large companys with health and safety department that is corporate/ legal focused, take the view that if there is a chance you may be mentally impaired or distracted due to what ever personal/professional circumstances, and you are in a profession where you can harm yourself or others, then you don't work.
rh200 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:10
  #1047 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: goulburn
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"We want to restore your faith"

Well the easy way to do that is go to the door, exit slowly, dont turn around and go to wherever you want to go away the hell from this Company. Also dont collect any money as you go.

If he wants to fly the national flag or use the term Spirit of Australia then he has to realise this is not his or the Boards personal play thing.

As one very wise passenger is reported as saying in LA...this is OUR Qantas..

The way things are shaping up Mr Joyce is in for a very long slow baking from those that count ie Govt, regulators and the media which he has brought onto himself with his own actions.

I also got the email and binned it without even reading until it was posted here because I know the credibility factor that comes with it NIL.

Lets hope his complacent institutional shareholders can now grasp the terms:

1. Regulatory risk.
2.Government relations.
3. Brand value.
4. Competitive advantage.
4. Business disruption while they address all the above.

Sooner or later they must be factored into the share price and bottom line results and it ain't going to be pretty.

ps I thought he and his team were actually paid to run an airline???
ohallen is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:13
  #1048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,140
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
To play devils advocate, most large companys with health and safety department that is corporate/ legal focused, take the view that if there is a chance you may be mentally impaired or distracted due to what ever personal/professional circumstances, and you are in a profession where you can harm yourself or others, then you don't work.
So, presumably, that situation existed immediately after the standown advice ...when all aircraft were on the ground ... but NOT immediately after the FWA decision... when aircraft needed to be put into the sky.

Pretty clever Pyschs they have ... Qantas and CASA!
peuce is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:21
  #1049 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,140
Received 3 Likes on 1 Post
Will it get you there alive is probably the question to be asking.
Yes, that's the first question I would ask and considering recent technical events, I'd have to think about it a bit.

However, assuming I decided that I had a pretty good chance of surviving such a trip.... what will make it any different from other Airlines that will probably get me there alive?

Maybe I have to be more blunt .... here is a scenario:

The aircraft is registered in Singapore
It has a Vietnamese technical crew
The aircraft was last serviced in Hanoi
The cabin crew are Thai
The fare is similar to Singapore Airlines

Will I buy a ticket just because it has a white rat on its tail?

Alan Joyce thinks I will !

Is that a very excellent business plan?
peuce is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 10:23
  #1050 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,051
Received 111 Likes on 53 Posts
Here is the QF AOC's holder under cross examination on this very issue. Sounds like CASA is putting a bit of pressure on QF over protracted industrial action and flight safety.

You're not in a position sitting in the witness box now, because you're not a trained psychologist, to give any informed view about what the impact may or may not be on an individual because of what is said to be a lockout, or for instance, the stress associated with a hearing such as this, are you?---Is the question am I a trained individual? No.

**** LYELL FRANCIS STRAMBI XXN MR MOSES
PN551

No, correct, I mean - - -?---But as my responsibilities go as the holder of the AOC, I have a responsibility and accountability though for ensuring the safe flight - the safe operation of flights, and these are factors that have to be considered in that.

PN552

But you've been aware for some 12 months that there has been negotiations and protracted disputes that have occurred between various parties in respect of matters between the pilots and Qantas?---Yes.

PN553

You haven't formed a view that that's caused any danger to safety as a result of those matters occurring, is that correct?---In one of the documents that I believe has been tabled, I have expressed a concern about the growing pressures on the business.

PN554

On the business?---On the airline, right? On the airline, and on the safety of flight. Now, in a protracted industrial relations environment and one that has such a high profile, that is going to put stresses on the airline. Our regulator has told us that so in my position I'm sitting here with that responsibility and I do see this balloon stretching over this timeframe.

PN555

The regulator has given no indication to you as to its view about what would be the psychological effects on staff as a result of industrial action, correct?---The regulator has made it very clear to me that while they have no provenance in industrial relations matters, they will take a very strong position, a very strong position where they perceive that to be a risk to flight. And I must add another point here - - -

PN556

And have they indicated that to - - -?--- - - -which helps the understanding of this. The regulator, in conversations with the regulator throughout this period and before this period, as we're giving our regular updates, this is a topical issue. It's raised if not by us it's raised by the regulator. In those conversations we have said and given undertakings that we will constantly review the growing stresses on the organisation, and an undertaking, and this is very important, an undertaking that we would take action before a regulator needed to take action, and that's consistent with the Qantas brand and it's consistent with the Qantas safety first approach. So we would not wait for the regulator to ground us, I would consider that a dereliction of my duties and I have to form that assessment on an ongoing basis.

**** LYELL FRANCIS STRAMBI XXN MR MOSES
PN557

Are you finished? Sir, are you finished? Can I ask you this question?---I though you asked me a question and I was answering.

PN558

CASA has not told you, has it, that if there is a lockout, if there is a lockout of staff on 72 hours' notice, that that would be a risk to safety? You haven't received that information from CASA have you?---CASA told me that they were concerned and watching and taking active steps, right, taking active steps to monitor and this, and this was pre-lockout. At the time of lockout there is an additional stress put into the system so you have a balloon that's expanding, as I said before, you have a regulator who is very focussed on this topic and now you introduce a new risk. And then I have to make an assessment at that point, is it safe to fly?

PN559

Can I assume from that answer that CASA did not inform you that if there was to be a lockout with 72 hours' notice that that would present as a safety risk, correct?---I would not have discussed that scenario.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:38
  #1051 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I'm wondering if Hotel rooms were booked, staff flown up on Thursday, Courier companies booked so on & so forth...then calling it a contingency plan is fair enough.......you need a contingency plan sure , and I do suspect the piccy of Ms Wirth on the 'Dingwa' in Canberra was a discussion of a contingency plan......has this contingency plan been put in place every weekend for several weekends, in case there was an escalation???

I think we should be told ....
Fliegenmong is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:39
  #1052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hello XXXXXX
Got the same one, with the same patronising salutation.

We're not on first name terms AJ, you c__t.
bankrunner is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:44
  #1053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by peuce
Pretty clever Pyschs they have ... Qantas and CASA!
Doubt it, at least from CASA's end. The current management at CASA see no particular value in the human factors section.
bankrunner is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 11:50
  #1054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm wondering if Hotel rooms were booked, staff flown up on Thursday, Courier companies booked so on & so forth...then calling it a contingency plan is fair enough.......you need a contingency plan sure , and I do suspect the piccy of Ms Wirth on the 'Dingwa' in Canberra was a discussion of a contingency plan......has this contingency plan been put in place every weekend for several weekends, in case there was an escalation???
There you go Senator Xenophon, a very good question to ask Messr Joyce. But may I suggest you not just accept a verbal answer, but may I ask you request evidence? Such as in the lead up to the lockout, how many rooms/accomodation/transport/tickets on other airlines etc etc in line with their big 'contingency plan' was/were booked. Then compare that to the so-called other weekends in which the 'contingency plan' was being put in place, possibly.
When will the Feds be brought in to investigate this sham? At least they can also pull phone records, locations, and any other tidbit that will assist in painting a picture of the truth.

Again, line up the lot of them, one at a time and (no, it is not what you are thinking) and asked pointed, straight to the core YES or No answers of Joyce, Clifford, Worth, Abbott, Hockey, Carbon Queen, the Minister for bad teeth, and any other major player in this folly. Ask them under parliamentary priveledge, in a court, in a sewer pit - who cares, just line them up and ask the right questions in an environment where any false statements or lies will see their head roll, and any truthful statement will see their precious souls vindicated. Amen.
gobbledock is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:29
  #1055 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
Posts: 1,082
Received 118 Likes on 30 Posts
EK haven't wasted much time. Assuming it wasn't planned beforehand, their next roadshows are in a few weeks (just got my email from them a few minutes ago).
DirectAnywhere is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:52
  #1056 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hamsterdam
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So while we are using the throw-away line of flight safety; what about the consideration of Occupational Health and Safety of the flying public that had either booked or were depending upon booking flights. What about doing no harm to passengers through grounding every aircraft without reasonable notice. What about the medical personnel that had critical matters to attend to? What about families who were reasonably dependent upon some level of service continuing, any level of service continuing? What about secondary and tertiary effect upon other people, children, businesses? Isn't this all outside of the realm of 'do no harm'? Is this a breach of Occupational Health and Safety legislation that should protect the public that were depending upon a level of service not, NO level of service? What do the miscreants, including their supporters, say about this?
Amygdala1 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:53
  #1057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,862
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
EK haven't wasted much time. Assuming it wasn't planned beforehand, their next roadshows are in a few weeks
Pilots resigning to go elsewhere is exactly what SLIC wants - it's best that everyone remains and they have to look at the huge costs of compulsory redundancy.
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 12:56
  #1058 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Interesting he thought every crew member was going to take the crash axe to the flight deck, nobody did anything to a aircraft in 89, so he did not get it there. He really must think the pilots are a bunch of knobs, he seriously must, just to add insult to injury. I enjoyed Richo get stuck into him and Clifford tonight, followed by Paul Murray, his fan base seems to be slipping rather badly, and it a long way from over yet. We still might see the last of him, and that tosser Clifford yet.
teresa green is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 13:08
  #1059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@JETRO6UL:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidbinbilla
David,

There is no need to place an @ in front of your posts. This is PPRuNe, not "Twatter"


Tell the Admins to add a quote button to the forum and then it'd be easier to distinguish between what people are posting and what they are quoting....

Precisely, although I do understand how some people will then quote endlessly and duplicate much info. For the moment I will happily continue to use @ and coloured text when I am responding to a particular post/poster
david1300 is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2011, 13:13
  #1060 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia, maybe
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Going Boeing, you must be very confident that the RedRat negotiators won't ask for and that the FWA arbitrators won't give them the ability to make pilots compulsory redundant on the basis of aircraft type.
I am not so confident.
Trent 972 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.