Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:25
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Journo cues for next Q presser

If Olivia surfaces will any journo dare to ask:

Did you or anyone from your office, including the paid "consultant" have any communication with any opposition MP, or their advisers, between 23rd October and 29 October?

and:

Did you or anyone from your office, including the paid "consultant" have any communication with the Chief of Staff or Advisors of either the Victorian Premier or the NSW Premier between 23rd October and 29 October?
airtags is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:28
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
airtags, yes, it's certainly looking a bit suspicious on the part of the Opposition.
SimonBl is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:30
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If Olivia surfaces will any journo dare to ask:
Did you or anyone from your office, including the paid "consultant" have any communication with any opposition MP, or their advisers, between 23rd October and 29 October?
and:
Did you or anyone from your office, including the paid "consultant" have any communication with the Chief of Staff or Advisors of either the Victorian Premier or the NSW Premier between 23rd October and 29 October?
Aagh now we start to see the reason she has gone to ground ? Perhaps Senator Xenophon would like to ask the same question of her? Should this question be asked of her before a parliamentary commision? Shouldn't be a problem, you can't get into trouble if you don't lie, agreed?
gobbledock is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:36
  #924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
An interesting (to me, anyway) article:

A Naked Conflict Between Profits And Wages | newmatilda.com
SimonBl is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:41
  #925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
An interesting (to me, anyway) article:

A Naked Conflict Between Profits And Wages | newmatilda.com
Thanks for the link. I found this paragraph interesting.

But is Qantas’ new low-cost Asian strategy necessarily the right one? And is it necessarily bad for unions to have a seat at the management table? The hard-line economists and management theorists say no, of course. And yet in Germany, all companies with more than 500 employees must have staff representatives on their board as a matter of law. Despite this, Germany still manages to be an industrial and manufacturing powerhouse.
Perhaps as part of the arbitration Qantas staff gets a seat on the board without buying shares ? Hmmm , 'they' wouldn't like that at all ... perhaps Cosgrove could bow out in the interests of the employees and give his board seat to the workers ? What do you think ?

Last edited by aseanaero; 1st Nov 2011 at 04:58.
aseanaero is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 04:57
  #926 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 1996
Location: Utopia
Posts: 7,366
Received 170 Likes on 101 Posts
Lets buy the damn thing, $15,000 each, and for those who cannot afford it, we go by stealth.
Teresa, that would buy 35,000 staff a mere 14.18% of the issued capital at todays price - it would actually cost $105,813 each for 35,000 staff to buy 100% control.

On the other hand, if all the staff owned an investment vehicle, were prepared to risk all their assets and employed a few very smart financial advisors, there would be nothing to stop them acquiring a controlling share..........
tail wheel is online now  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 05:03
  #927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Teresa, that would buy 35,000 staff a mere 14.18% of the issued capital at todays price
It's still a significant chunk of shares and in the event that there's 'assymetric disclosure' between the staff shareholder and the institutional shareholders there's legal ramifications with very sharp teeth.

Maybe Qantas staff ALREADY own a significant chunk of shares .

I think the easiest way is as part of the arbitration that Qantas staff have a representative on the board , what's wrong with that ? It would be another Qantas PR disaster for that to be refused.


.
aseanaero is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 05:30
  #928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I very much doubt that FWA will award something that hasnt been asked for.
apache is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 05:39
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Corporate Governance

Qantas must think again

Kerreen Reiger

November 1, 2011 Opinion


We now know how little regard the airline has for staff and travellers.
I am writing this on an American Airlines flight heading across the US. I've just been offloaded when the Qantas one was grounded, much to the horror of the conscientious and courteous staff about to be locked out. We heard the news when the captain was about to respond to a passenger's query about who won the Victoria Derby, only to find much more urgent issues demanding his attention. The cabin crew were just dumbstruck. So were we all.
How has it come to this? I am a social scientist who researches workplace and professional cultures and have long had an interest in airline work, especially research into gendered practices. Not only do I travel frequently but I saw the long-term impact and emotional toll wrought by the Ansett dispute and its aftermath on friends and on my local community. One of the most distressing scenes I recall from 1990 was the sight of middle-aged male pilots crying at the airport as they farewelled their families and headed offshore for jobs.
And now it's Qantas. Over recent weeks I have become more and more alarmed, not at union concerns at jobs going offshore and lowering safety standards, but at the evident agenda of Qantas's management in seeking to ''trash the brand'' itself.

'The evident agenda of Qantas's management is seeking to trash the brand itself.'

I recently flew on the last leg of a so-called ''Qantas'' flight from Los Angeles via Auckland. Instead it was a Jetconnect flight bearing little resemblance to the professional standards traditionally associated with Qantas. The plane was shabby and service was minimal.
Jetstar, or worse, is clearly the model now being proposed for Qantas. Yet reports suggest that it's an awful organisation to work for. Indeed, I was horrified recently to hear that lower-paid Thai flight attendants had to sleep on a Jetstar plane on the tarmac instead of having a proper rest in a hotel.
There must be another way. Alan Joyce and his management's determination to strip back both Jetstar and now Qantas, shows both short-sightedness and lack of commitment to their workforce, their invaluable human capital.
We can take another tack though. Interestingly enough, airlines have led the international field in recognising the intrinsic link between the human factors making for crew error and mishaps and instituting training procedures to minimise accidents. This has now influenced the field of healthcare, yet some leading hospitals have gone further and are streets ahead of aviation, or at least of airlines such as Qantas.
They have shown that you can't have good outcomes without excellence in organisational cultures. Accordingly, influential healthcare leaders have set out to improve quality and safety through insisting on high standards of performance from everyone - from executives to cleaners - and always based on the shared value of giving effective service to patients or ''consumers''. The workplace practices espoused by the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, the Studer Group, and Planetree network in the US for instance are now well recognised.
Most tellingly for airlines struggling in a difficult market, US hospitals following these new management principles also become successful financially. Good leadership from the top down to improve performance and build collegiality pays off, lowering costs and gaining market share. Another model is out there to look to, if the damage done recently can be repaired.
Enlightened management consultants, rather than industrial relations antagonists, are needed to help get some genuine dialogue going. And some independent journalists not influenced by Qantas ''favours'' need to put their skills to work, too. We need to know the grounds for aircraft maintenance and safety concerns and have a national debate about aviation work standards, preferably before the risk of planes crashing increases.
We know that airline jobs are pretty good ones to have, but right now I, for one, don't begrudge the rewards of those who have them. As I'm on a plane about to climb down from 41,000 feet into JFK airport, and through an unseasonable and wild snow storm, I just see them working hard. I am also glad they see me as a passenger towards whom they have a ''duty of care'', not just a customer. We might take large jets hurtling across continents for granted now but on nights like this one, it pays to remember the extraordinary achievement this human endeavour remains and to respect those who make it possible for us to arrive safely.
Dr Kerreen Reiger is an honorary research fellow in the School of Social Sciences at La Trobe University and a Qantas frequent flyer.
fishers.ghost is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 05:48
  #930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: FL290
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Lets buy the damn thing, $15,000 each, and for those who cannot afford it, we go by stealth. Then offer Borgetti a block of flats to come back and get the joint up and running again, using, wait for it, Australians. Just a dream I suppose, but how good would it be.
I said this weeks ago and everybody scoffed. We may have trouble getting enough shares available for sale at a low enough price. Even up to $2 is still value. Just keep eating away at it, like an elephant. We dont need 51% to get on to the board.

Then sell of the orange blob and recoup at last 40% of the capital. Than focus back on Qantas
1a sound asleep is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 05:54
  #931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you're smart maybe you can get someone on the board for free , if the Govt can intervene on industrial action maybe they can lean on the Qantas board also
aseanaero is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:13
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Wherever I can log on.
Posts: 1,862
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Posted by aseanaero
If the workforce can be reduced from 35,000 Australians to 25,000 Australians and the other 10,000 jobs outsourced to Asia costs them HALF of what they are spending in OZ in simple terms they've saved about a half a billion dollars a year at a 10% return that's worth about $5 billion to the value of the company , they've doubled their money and will move on to the next investment opportunity.
The Clifford/Joyce plan doesn't stop at moving 10,000 jobs offshore - they want every job possible offshore which would mean the only Oz based jobs would be the essential customer contact staff at the terminals. I believe that more than 25,000 jobs will go which will have significant impact on the economies of many communities as well as reduced tax and superannuation available in the broader economy. The whole thing is driven by Clifford's lust for power and corporate greed by those around him.
Going Boeing is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:33
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've just heard from a relative, of a person ( a friend of theirs) who HAD to get home from Perth for a funeral yesterday and was charged $1000 by Jetstar…one way!!
I've just looked up the same for tomorrow and it's $389 return OR one way.

How on earth is it legal for these clowns to ground one half of the company and then price-gouge on the other half to cover their loses????
King William III is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:41
  #934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: goulburn
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was pleased to see that both the ASIC and ACCC dogs have been let loose on the Rat over these events by the Govt.

The fact that the Rat was able to direct passengers to Jetset and reward themselves for what they did deserves the harshest criticism. Lets see what the ACCC come up with on pricing at Jetstar because they were in the information loop and I hope the fares were pushed up before 5pm Saturday.

While they are at it, ASIC should be looking at whether institutional shareholders were as equally informed as Retail shareholders for the AGM. Every instinct in my body says they had more information and lets see if that pans out. I hope they check the personal diaries of every Rat Exec to see who they met up with in the period 18 October to the AGM as well as any linked emails.

This whole issue warrants a stringent multifront investigation and if any private equity bid arrives a Royal Commission.

If they need volunteers to help search, let me know.
ohallen is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:53
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I doubt these will stay on the front pages for long so;

Abbott denies having prior knowledge of Qantas grounding - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Tony Abbott tells Parliament he 'had no prior notice'' of Qantas lock-out | News.com.au

One of the comments (not mine) at the bottom of the news.com article…….
Abbots was told that Qantas "HAD" shut down at 16.45, but was he told well beforehand that they "WOULD" shut down. He accuses government of failing to "interfere" with a "business problem". If they had done so, he would have accused them of "interfering" with a "business matter"

Good to see the tide turning away from Qantas over at Murdochsville…..they obviously sway with popular opinion and Qantas are losing this PR battle badly ( guess that's why Livvy's been in hiding since her retired/grounded incident…she'd only make it even worse!!)

King William III is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:55
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The 'Bat Cave' @ HLP in the Big Durian Indo
Age: 61
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Qantas political brawl has escalated dramatically with an extraordinary suggestion that Opposition Leader Tony Abbott had prior knowledge that Qantas was to ground its aircraft.

Mr Abbott was forced to deny the claim in Parliament, saying he heard about the grounding only a few minutes before it came into force on Saturday.

Transport Minister Anthony Albanese called a press conference to question why Mr Abbott suddenly changed his rhetoric on Friday to demand the Government intervene in the dispute.

Mr Albanese questioned whether Mr Abbott had been told about the lockout and grounding well before Qantas boss Alan Joyce told the Government at 2pm on Saturday.

Mr Joyce insisted the Qantas board only made the lockout decision on Saturday morning.

"Why did Tony Abbott change his position on Friday morning one day before Qantas says they made the decision to lock out the workforce and to shut down the airline at 5pm on Saturday?" Mr Albanese asked journalists.

And he made the extraordinary suggestion that the Opposition may have colluded with Qantas to "orchestrate" the lockout and grounding.

"Was Mr Abbott, his office or any colleagues in his party involved in an orchestrated campaign in the lead-up to this announcement with Qantas' decision they say was made on Saturday to lock out its workforce and to ground its fleet?" he asked.

If I had prior notice to what Qantas was intending I would hardly have booked myself and my family on Qantas the following day.

Tony Abbott
"What contact did Mr Abbott or his frontbench have with Mr Joyce or [Qantas chairman] Mr Clifford prior to Qantas' announcement on Saturday?"

In Question Time, Prime Minister Julia Gillard stepped up the pressure on Mr Abbott, demanding he "tell the truth" and saying he was "in cover-up mode".
Abbott denies having prior knowledge of Qantas grounding - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
aseanaero is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 07:58
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: BHX LXR ASW
Posts: 2,267
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
King William it's called a captive market. if no one else is flying that route at that particular time, then they will charge what they like, in this case $mega!. Unfortunately there will be people who have to pay this price because of circumstances, which in this case will only add to the grief.

We have Ryanair in the UK who regularly rip people off for whatever reason, but people still come back for more. That's how these people survive. They don't care about anyone other than their greedy selves.
crewmeal is online now  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 08:00
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by aseanaero
In his own social circles he's probably a hero but he won't be able to show his face at a public venue for a long long time.
Not exactly. Nobody would mind seeing him having to line up at Centrelink (or whatever became of the CES)
bankrunner is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 08:02
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Netherlands
Age: 67
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I was under the (perhaps misguided) impression it was something called price gouging which is illegal in this country? Maybe I'm wrong.

I can imaging Virgin could get away with it being a different company ( although there is no evidence so far to suggest they did anything other than offer discounted fares ) however Jetstar ARE Qantas with full knowledge of ALL the timings of this action……..that SURELY cannot be legal ??
King William III is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2011, 08:11
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Look up and wave
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Can the two political parties stop playing school yard politics about who said what and who knew what. It's like girls gossip time at band camp.

Both political parties should be asking the hard questions towards Qantas management. The longer politicians bicker amongst themselves, the longer these so called business leaders are not held to account.

Pretty soon the witch hunt will be directed by labor towards business leaders as politicians scramble to save their seats.

I bet Abbott did know. I bet the intention was to let him know. I bet he was played. Along with the leaders of the NSW and Vic liberal party. Deals will be done and favours will be called upon regarding industrial legislation during the Liberal parties landslide election win next term.

Just as the greens forced Julie to become Juliar, Abbott will be blackmailed in regards to work choices.

Checkmate.

It's what I would do.

Ter be sure ter be sure
MACH082 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.