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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 31st Oct 2011, 20:36
  #881 (permalink)  
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The flights may be full, but are they making enough money?

Sydney to Frankfurt in Business on QF5 01MAR12 $11409 (QF Website)
Sydney to Frankfurt in Business on QF5 01MAR12 $2313 (S7 Website)
S7 airlines are a QF One World partner, yet their fare is $9000 cheaper.
QF must be losing out here.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 20:47
  #882 (permalink)  
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Agreed, there are competitive prices but is this competition to Qantas? The two sides of the equation must work and obviously COST is one of those. There would be no doubt that Qantas costs would be high and this is NOT only staff. Look at any ex-government business and managment all think they are business savvy but are really quite unsophisticated. My point is that they must have the product right so leave something that is working alone or don't do things that will destroy it. Work on the costs without destroying the product. Staff can actually help there and the primitive reduce staff numbers and cost is such an unsophisticated approach to business - hell anyone can do that and you don't need to pay multi-million dollar salaries to find someone who can (and then use another unsophisticated and sole argument of justification by comparison). This is just another example of sub-optimal management without leadership.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 20:51
  #883 (permalink)  
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Ethiad boss comments

Apologies if posted elsewhere. Interesting read.

Quite why Middle Eastern airlines have become the whipping boys in the latest Qantas dispute is a mystery to me – as an Australian who is not afraid of a little competition, and as a global airline chief executive who understands that every airline juggles with a grab bag of advantages and disadvantages.

The stream of wrong assertions about the amazing benefits Middle Eastern airlines have that somehow make Qantas unable to compete badly needs some balance.

For example – the claims that Gulf carriers are funded by generous and unlimited government subsidies. Etihad doesn’t receive a cent in subsidies.

Or that it doesn’t matter if we make a profit. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are very clearly focused on profitability.

Then there is the furphy that we get our fuel for free. In 2010 we fixed the price of 75 per cent of our jet fuel needs in a hedging portfolio with 17 global financial institutions. The fact is we pay more to refuel our jets in Abu Dhabi than we do in Singapore or Chicago.

We also pay for airport and landing charges at our hub in Abu Dhabi. The airport has the same profitability mandate as Etihad – why would they waive fees and charges for us? We pay market rates – the same rates as the other 34 airlines that fly to our home base.

And the no-tax refrain. Etihad operates in the same tax-free regime as all companies in the United Arab Emirates – including our airline competitors. But, we have tax obligations in the 43 other countries to which we fly.

And then of course, the claim about slave labour. Not only do we pay well, but we pay you the same for the job you do whether you are Australian or Thai or Congolese or any one of the other 120 nationalities we employ. On top of that we provide a host of other benefits such as housing, schooling for your children, health care, and even fitness centres.

It is not sovereign guarantees, government protection and cheap labour that underpin the success of airlines from the Middle East – and, as falsely claimed, are helping to nobble the Flying Kangaroo.

What is driving the increasing number of Australian travellers seeking a better alternative for their overseas travel?

There is one basic factor: choice. That is what we have offered following the exit of a raft of European airlines over an extended period – before Etihad was even born, I should point out.

And informing that choice are four things: network, product, service and dedicated staff.

Customers want access to modern and dynamic networks, with as few stops along the way as they can get. Middle Eastern airlines offer this.

Customers want new aircraft, with fresh products and innovative service. Middle Eastern airlines offer this.

Middle Eastern airlines have the right to take people to and from – and through – the Middle East. Certainly Qantas isn’t willing to fly through the Middle East, although it could it if chose.

It has chosen instead to focus on a different part of the world. Quite rightly, they are taking advantage of their own geography, and their other multiple benefits, which include consistent profitability, a strong brand and a long history.

It may be uncomfortable for established national carriers to face new competition. But that has been shown time and time again to be good for the consumer and – over the long term – good for the market.

So please don’t blame Middle Eastern airlines for doing what they have a right to do: compete.
Link A perverse airline blame game | James Hogan, Etihad Airlines CEO | Commentary | Business Spectator
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 21:57
  #884 (permalink)  
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15 years of poor management decisions is ALL it takes to get to this.

AIPA need to publish a timeline of corkups and a dollar figure ongoing.

I bet it would shock them also.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 22:09
  #885 (permalink)  
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The Propaganda machine.

This article Media Matrix and General Reality (scroll to page 22) gives a very good perspective on the MSM propaganda machine. You need to have an understanding of these processes to have any hope of making sense of the forces at play. Although it is applied to trading, it is highly relevant to the Qantas situation.

He mentions three sources: Propaganda: Edward Bernays - the father of the "pubic relations" industry.

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (1988), by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky

Manufacturing Consent - Noam Chomsky and the Media - YouTube
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 22:47
  #886 (permalink)  
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From Business Spectator-
Qantas returning to normal today | News | Business Spectator

Moody's flag possible Qantas downgrade
Ratings agency Moody's investor service has placed Qantas Airways Ltd under review for a possible downgrade this afternoon, citing its weekend grounding and ongoing industrial action.

Moody's said the weekend grounding of Qantas' fleet and other industrial relations actions over the weekend were likely to place pressure on the airline's forward bookings, profitability and future brand equity.
The announcement by Moody's, which came almost simultaneously with the take-off of the first post-grounding Qantas flight, represents another setback for the airline with the unions already seeking legal advice on challenging the ruling by Fair Work Australia that ended their stand-off between with Qantas.
"Qantas' Baa2/P-2 ratings have already been weakly positioned within the rating – as indicated by the previous negative outlook – due to the challenging operating environment as well as rising tensions on the industrial relations front for the airline over a longer period of time," Moody's vice president and senior credit officer Ian Lewis said in a statement.
and in another Business Spectator article we have this-
The AFR also said the Qantas plans to temporarily double the earn rate on frequent flyer points in a move targeted at regaining the high-yielding corporate market, which has defected to Virgin since the industrial action picked-up in August.
The preparations for the campaign with advertising agency M&C Saatchi have been in the pipeline for at least a week adding weight to the idea that Qantas' plans to ground the airline were well advanced by the time it enacted it on Saturday.
Qantas set to cut prices: report | News | Business Spectator
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 22:54
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Moody's said the weekend grounding of Qantas' fleet and other industrial relations actions over the weekend were likely to place pressure on the airline's forward bookings, profitability and future brand equity.
Moody's are not fooled, read the wording very carefully - it has become a self fulfilling prophecy. The actions over the weekend were likely to place pressure on bookings. Not before, but as a direct result of unilateral actions by management, not the unions.

Just remind us Alan, who is "Trashing the Brand".
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 22:57
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Re post #914, I am not sure where those shareholder figures come from, but from the Qantas Annual Report for 2011 (Page 109), Qantas declare the following largest shareholders:

1. J P Morgan Nominees Australia ................ 514,714,244 shares .... 22.72%
2. HSBC Custody Nominees (Australia) Limited 428,322,920 shares .... 18.91%
3. National Nominees Limited ...................... 413,707,968 shares .... 18.26%
4. Citicorp Nominees Pty Limited ................. 253,053,991 shares .... 11.17%

300 million staff shares would represent only 13.24% of the issued capital (2,265,123,620 shares) and have little impact at an AGM.

Any significant staff equity participation, without the support of the Board and institutional investors, is simply impossible and a pipe dream.

Interesting the share price is up 7.32% since the ASX opened on Monday morning but 39,003,746 shares traded in the past 26 hours or so appears abnormally high? Short term speculation or long term participation?

By comparison, Virgin shares are up 4.17% since Monday ASX opening, but an unusually high 26,133,837 shares have been traded?

Between Friday's close and the current share price (10.30 am 1 November) Qantas market capitalisation has risen $260,489,216, slighly higher than the total cost of industrial action and fleet grounding losses........
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:17
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FWA CUP. Place your bets !!


Race of the day is at 1300 sharp Nov 21, 2011, so get your bets in as it will be a big event.

Main race as follows:

Horse 1: ‘Bad Hair Day’, rider is Olive Wirthless, trained by Stefan. Odds 60/1

Horse 2: ‘Rio Tonto’, rider is Lee Cliffhead, trained by L. Ranger. Odds 66/1

Horse 3: ‘Al’s Boy’, rider is TBA, there has been many jockeying and trying out for this ride. Odds 70/1

Horse 4: ‘Orange Clown’, rider Antony Belowtheknees, trained by Hawke. Odds 80/1

Horse 5: ‘Il Deuce’, rider S. Donohue, trained by C.Storrie. Odds are a massive 99/1, but a win would position the industry very well, creating not only history but long term gain for all punters

Horse 6: ‘Bow Tie’, rider Ched Dixon, trained by L. Strabismus. Odds 88/1

Horse 7: ‘Bruceters Millions’, rider TBA, but is to be an outsourced consultant jockey. Odds 90/1

Horse 8: ‘Beijing Babe’, rider Lee Lee Clifford, trained by Mao Tse-tung. Odds 75/1

Horse 9: ‘Paddle Pop’, rider S.Purvinas, trained by B.Jackson. The starting odds on this race have improved after an incorrectly perceived slow start. With such a long race to run and a field consisting of predominately weak, spineless competition, Odds are now 6/1

Horse 10: “LATE SCRATCHING”! ‘Seven Eight Seven’, a young gelding that has been scratched to a delayed arrival into Australia for the cup. He is expected to race next in the 2012 cup.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:18
  #890 (permalink)  
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Who owns Qantas?
By James Cogan
31 October 2011
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has made repeated reference to the “96 percent support” he received from shareholders at the company’s annual general meeting on October 28—the day before he and the Qantas board grounded the airlines’ entire global fleet.
He did not mention that the biggest 20 shareholders control 80.3 percent of total voting shares, and that just the top four, a group of major global financial conglomerates, hold over 70 percent.
Qantas is an example of how the most powerful financial interests exert sway over the commanding heights of the economy. Just 240 of the company’s 133,392 shareholders own 82.49 percent of the stock. Contrary to claims that some type of “shareholders democracy” exists, small investors have no say in the company’s direction or conduct.
The largest Qantas shareholder—with 22.72 percent of the company—is J. P. Morgan Nominees Australia, a division of the global J. P. Morgan investment house.
The second largest is HSBC Custody Nominees with 18.91 percent. Next is National Nominees with an 18.26 percent stake. The fourth largest is Citicorp Nominees.
These four investment funds are also among the largest shareholders of Australia’s four major banks, the Commonwealth Bank, National Australia Bank, Westpac Bank and ANZ Bank, which in turn are large shareholders of the investment funds.
J. P. Morgan, HSBC, National Nominees and Citicorp are also the top four shareholders of Australia’s two largest resource companies, BHP-Billiton and Rio Tinto. They appear prominently in the top 20 list of shareholders of numerous companies, ranging from oil corporation Caltex to construction and property giants Leighton Holdings and Lend Lease.
This web of interconnections guarantees that the executives of any company serve as the direct representatives of finance and carry out their dictates. They move seamlessly between different companies, serving the same essential masters.
Qantas chairman Leigh Clifford, for example, was previously the CEO of Rio Tinto. The other board members include former executives of the banks, mining conglomerates, industrial companies and global equity funds, as well as retired military chief General Peter Cosgrove, who commanded the neo-colonial Australian intervention into East Timor in 1999.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:24
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I can feel a 'save Q' sticker campaign coming on sort of like buy Australian or 'dolphin firendly'...........

..............unfortunately we're the bloody tuna in this and inevitably we're being gutted and squashed into a made in Asia can.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:32
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neo-colonial Australian intervention into East Timor
Neo-colonial? That ridiculous emotive phrase damn near blew the writer's otherwise sensible argument to oblivion.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:46
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Hi hotnhigh

Yes, agreed that big business can now circumvent pia by pulling such a stunt.
This will only change if the target, in this case, economic damage, is changed.
You are, unfortunately, absolutely right.

What should have happened at FWA...
1. The assessment should have simply been whether Qantas' actions (lockout) were commensurate with the unions' PIA previously approved by FWA, and if not, a lockout of staff completely prohibited
2. Each industrial dispute (AIPA, TWU, ALAEA) vs. Qantas should have been handled separately.

The goal-posts are in completely the wrong position for a myriad of reasons. If Qantas were a small business (without access to national economy damage) this would not have been an option to them.

Big business is controlling Julia under her own, bull**** legislation.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 23:57
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The Punch.
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 00:54
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I hear the `muppets` talk about the safety of the a/c etc. Certainly didn`t see any security around the grounded A/C in Syd. What if someone sabotaged these aircraft? And now they`re flying.
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 01:06
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I'm surprised General Cosgrove as a high profile and respected figure hasn't jumped in to defend the CEO or perhaps he didn't agree and has been muzzled
If he had an ounce of integrity he would resign and hold a press conference stating why!

I guess to get to the top of the military takes the same skills as getting to the top of the corporate world……...
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 01:12
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Following email sent to engineers from the esteemed Mr Nassenstein:

Hi everyone,

I’d like to thank each and every one of you for your professionalism you have shown over the last 48 hours, I am pleased to say we are flying again.

With so much going on and a lot of distractions it is important to ensure our focus and priority is on keeping our aircraft flying safely and assisting our passengers.

As always, please continue to stay focused on the task at hand and keep safe.

Take care,

Chris Nassenstein
Executive Manager, Qantas Engineering
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 01:12
  #898 (permalink)  
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Lateline part 1 2 3

Shorten interview

Barry Jackson interview

The feeling is, AJ has upset many in Canberra..... and has OW been sidelined?

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Old 1st Nov 2011, 01:15
  #899 (permalink)  
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Interesting point. Cosgrove would have us believe he was a firm but fair leader, one that actually engaged his troops.

Read his book he talks about being in East Timor and in the trenches so to speak. This is not the kind of leadership he is demanding of the senior executives let alone fellow board members.

Rule No.1 in Leadership. Never expect others to do things you are not prepared to do yourself.
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Old 1st Nov 2011, 01:33
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From page 679 of the Fair Work Act 2009:
Division 7—Ministerial declarations
431 Ministerial declaration terminating industrial action
(1) The Minister may make a declaration, in writing, terminating
protected industrial action for a proposed enterprise agreement if
the Minister is satisfied that:
(a) the industrial action is being engaged in, or is threatened,
impending or probable; and
(b) the industrial action is threatening, or would threaten:
(i) to endanger the life, the personal safety or health, or the
welfare, of the population or a part of it; or
(ii) to cause significant damage to the Australian economy
or an important part of it.
(2) The declaration comes into operation on the day that it is made.
(3) A declaration under subsection (1) is not a legislative instrument.
I fail to see why this wasn't invoked prior to Joyce announcing the lockout and grounding! The only possible reason, that I can see, is Julia wanted her pet (FWA) to sort the matter out and therefore show how good a system it is. If that is the case why didn't they make the application to FWA prior to the 5pm deadline?

Julia's reasoning that 431, if invoked, could be open to judicial review is a bullt excuse! Who cares if it was contested judicially, at least she would have stopped the grounding of an airline! As it is 424 maybe contested by the TWU, so what is the difference? The only difference, that I can see, is that the 431 clause was carried over from the previous legislation (Work Choices) and Julia wanted to get kudos for her own legislation ie 424!

As a side note, the Fair Work Act is 670 pages long. No wonder each side has a team of lawyers just to decipher the legislation!
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