MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.
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I wonder what it's like to be the most reviled person in Australia at the moment ?
He can't go out for a cafe latte or go see a musical ...
In his own social circles he's probably a hero but he won't be able to show his face at a public venue for a long long time.
Why did the company secretary retire on monday ? Too much pressure ? Didn't agree with what's going on ?
There's some dark forces at work (the 4 major shareholders) and they're very smart (including Joyce)
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He can't go out for a cafe latte or go see a musical ...
In his own social circles he's probably a hero but he won't be able to show his face at a public venue for a long long time.
Why did the company secretary retire on monday ? Too much pressure ? Didn't agree with what's going on ?
There's some dark forces at work (the 4 major shareholders) and they're very smart (including Joyce)
.
Last edited by aseanaero; 1st Nov 2011 at 01:53.
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Originally Posted by King William III
I guess to get to the top of the military takes the same skills as getting to the top of the corporate world……...
That said, Cosgrove is not one of these. He more than proved his merits in East Timor.
Last edited by bankrunner; 1st Nov 2011 at 03:03.
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I dont think anyone is doubting the Generals impeccable history.
What is testing the minds of some is the inconsistency with that record and the current actions to which he is a party.
There is a signifcant risk that if this thing goes pear shaped his legacy may be rewritten.
Re the Company Secretary you left out one critical element. The risk of being exposed to legal action both civil and criminal. If this thing does go pear shaped then the Company Secretary rates up there with the Board because of Corps Law obligations. Even if nothing goes wrong there are many who have expended years defending what they did, so it becomes all life consuming and potentially VERY expensive because no D&O Policy will indemnify if breaches of the law are found.
Of course I am talking theoretically and not specifically.
What is testing the minds of some is the inconsistency with that record and the current actions to which he is a party.
There is a signifcant risk that if this thing goes pear shaped his legacy may be rewritten.
Re the Company Secretary you left out one critical element. The risk of being exposed to legal action both civil and criminal. If this thing does go pear shaped then the Company Secretary rates up there with the Board because of Corps Law obligations. Even if nothing goes wrong there are many who have expended years defending what they did, so it becomes all life consuming and potentially VERY expensive because no D&O Policy will indemnify if breaches of the law are found.
Of course I am talking theoretically and not specifically.
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Interesting point. Cosgrove would have us believe he was a firm but fair leader, one that actually engaged his troops.
Read his book he talks about being in East Timor and in the trenches so to speak. This is not the kind of leadership he is demanding of the senior executives let alone fellow board members.
Rule No.1 in Leadership. Never expect others to do things you are not prepared to do yourself.
Read his book he talks about being in East Timor and in the trenches so to speak. This is not the kind of leadership he is demanding of the senior executives let alone fellow board members.
Rule No.1 in Leadership. Never expect others to do things you are not prepared to do yourself.
Why did the company secretary retire on monday ? Too much pressure ? Didn't agree with what's going on ?
Julia's reasoning that 431, if invoked, could be open to judicial review is a bull
t excuse!
t excuse!
Somebody also asked earlier where OW is? Again, she is a small time muppet with little to no effect on the airline other than fronting the media with bad hair and a facial expression like she just snorted vinegar.Obviously the Irishman felt that he, his red tie and bad teeth would make a more 'manly, executive, controlling demeanor'. I disagree, if that is the look they wanted they should have trotted out OW, or the Carbon Queen with her mannish walk and Hair Dresser in tow.
A Board decision requires a simple majority, not a unanimous vote.
The Board Members are bound by confidentiality.
We may never know how many or which Directors supported the motion and vote to ground Qantas, but it must have been at least a simple majority (50% plus 1 = 6 votes).
I still believe the game is only around quarter time and the umpire has only given one free kick so far.
The Board Members are bound by confidentiality.
We may never know how many or which Directors supported the motion and vote to ground Qantas, but it must have been at least a simple majority (50% plus 1 = 6 votes).
I still believe the game is only around quarter time and the umpire has only given one free kick so far.
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Is Joyce a Sponsored Immigrant ?
On what basis does Allan Joyce enjoy residency in Australia ?
Does he still travel on an Irish passport.
What is his status as a visitor to this country ?
Does he still travel on an Irish passport.
What is his status as a visitor to this country ?
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Re OW, I am sure I heard AJ mention that she was one of the team of 4 (IIRC) that implemented Saturday's actions. Anyone else recall this?
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On what basis does Allan Joyce enjoy residency in Australia ?
Does he still travel on an Irish passport.
What is his status as a visitor to this country ?
Does he still travel on an Irish passport.
What is his status as a visitor to this country ?
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Couple of points here AJ.
Not so long ago you had me do an online ethics course. Did you do it? I'm thinking you didn't. To leave so many pax in the dark is beyond forgiveness. The stories I've heard on the TV and radio are so sad it make's me ashamed.
You've had all these business leaders say you were right to do what you did. That's funny, because I've had a heap of mate's (Got any of those?) say you make way too much money.
I've also been wondering about that thing called "respect" Not you to me, because I know that just is'nt. I'm talking me to you. How in God's name can I respect you? The things you do & the things you say about me and my 35,000 brother's and sister's, it just can't happen. It make's me wonder how you can live with that...Maybe your pay packet is a nice thing the curl up with at night.
I said on here a while back. "God is watching you" Look into your heart, or talk to a worker on the floor and either one of them will be able to tell you what he's saying.
Not so long ago you had me do an online ethics course. Did you do it? I'm thinking you didn't. To leave so many pax in the dark is beyond forgiveness. The stories I've heard on the TV and radio are so sad it make's me ashamed.
You've had all these business leaders say you were right to do what you did. That's funny, because I've had a heap of mate's (Got any of those?) say you make way too much money.
I've also been wondering about that thing called "respect" Not you to me, because I know that just is'nt. I'm talking me to you. How in God's name can I respect you? The things you do & the things you say about me and my 35,000 brother's and sister's, it just can't happen. It make's me wonder how you can live with that...Maybe your pay packet is a nice thing the curl up with at night.
I said on here a while back. "God is watching you" Look into your heart, or talk to a worker on the floor and either one of them will be able to tell you what he's saying.
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Lets buy the damn thing, $15,000 each, and for those who cannot afford it, we go by stealth. Then offer Borgetti a block of flats to come back and get the joint up and running again, using, wait for it, Australians. Just a dream I suppose, but how good would it be.
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Breakfastburrito,
You were right, thanks, as was I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGDhTPgjo - go to the 3:25 mark for the relevant section.
You were right, thanks, as was I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgGDhTPgjo - go to the 3:25 mark for the relevant section.
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Not so long ago you had me do an online ethics course. Did you do it? I'm thinking you didn't. To leave so many pax in the dark is beyond forgiveness. The stories I've heard on the TV and radio are so sad it make's me ashamed.
This is one example of many. I am glad the decision makers in this farce who grounded the airline can sleep well at night making decisions like that. This was a totally arrogant self centered greed induced act that cannot and should not be forgiven and forgotten. Disgusting corporate turds.
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Minister for Mascot's pre question time presser made some interesting allegations - Q time in the chamber seems to suggest that there might be more to Ms Worthless being MIA than first suggested......ASIC inquiry may become a necessity if shareholders were to complain
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Joyce's Bona Fides
The post was an attempt to establish Joyce's status in this country.
It has been said elsewhere that an Australian born CEO would not have made the decision to ground the Qantas Fleet and lock out its workforce.
Joyce does not appear to have any memory of 1989 nor an understanding of the Australian concept of fairness.
Further Joyce is no longer welcome in this country if he continues down this very divisive path with his apalling treatment of Australian workers and his total disregard for paying Qantas customers.
If the Qantas workforce were disengaged before this event they most definitely are hostile now.There will never be harmony or trust in the Qantas workplace after this.The business will suffer accordingly
It has been said elsewhere that an Australian born CEO would not have made the decision to ground the Qantas Fleet and lock out its workforce.
Joyce does not appear to have any memory of 1989 nor an understanding of the Australian concept of fairness.
Further Joyce is no longer welcome in this country if he continues down this very divisive path with his apalling treatment of Australian workers and his total disregard for paying Qantas customers.
If the Qantas workforce were disengaged before this event they most definitely are hostile now.There will never be harmony or trust in the Qantas workplace after this.The business will suffer accordingly
Last edited by watch your6; 1st Nov 2011 at 03:14.
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Why didn't the minister revoke the PIA?
Simply because there were no grounds to until qantas' actions came about. The actions of the 3 unions involved were not hurting the economy.
Some of you should read the media more critically when it comes to politics, as you all know they tend to lie to suit their own agenda when it comes to reporting on aviation industrial matters, what makes you think the same bull**** isnt written when it comes to politics.
Murdock is a genius in that he publishes for the working man that have managed to convince the worker that things that are good for them are actually bad eg. the rite to take protected action in support of industrial claims
Simply because there were no grounds to until qantas' actions came about. The actions of the 3 unions involved were not hurting the economy.
Some of you should read the media more critically when it comes to politics, as you all know they tend to lie to suit their own agenda when it comes to reporting on aviation industrial matters, what makes you think the same bull**** isnt written when it comes to politics.
Murdock is a genius in that he publishes for the working man that have managed to convince the worker that things that are good for them are actually bad eg. the rite to take protected action in support of industrial claims
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The problem here is that the institutional investors see an opportunity for a windfall profit.
You could be a food producer , make toilet seats , whatever , in this case you're an airline and in their eyes an inefficient, out of date dinosaur
If the workforce can be reduced from 35,000 Australians to 25,000 Australians and the other 10,000 jobs outsourced to Asia costs them HALF of what they are spending in OZ in simple terms they've saved about a half a billion dollars a year at a 10% return that's worth about $5 billion to the value of the company , they've doubled their money and will move on to the next investment opportunity.
The arguments about high safety (why does Qantas need to be safer than other airlines they will ask, why does Qantas have a zero total hull loss record when other major listed airlines can have a major accident every decade and still trade as normal) and being an Australian icon have no currency in their eyes.
The only way I can see the staff getting into a better position to fight is to have equity in the company , as a significant shareholder you have rights to know the corporate strategy to increase 'shareholder value'. To buy the whole company would cost something like $100,000 to $150,000 per employee depending on what happens to the share price but even as a 5% to 10% shareholder ($7,500 to $15,000 per employee) you have significant rights and power.
Politically it would be supported , Qantas staff buying shares in their own airline that in some cases has been their employer since they left school. If you want to fight for survival this is one option open to Qantas staff and you would have board representation , you would know what they know and if facts are concealed from your board member then you have legal rights also. In the longer term with just emotional arguments you are going to lose , the benefits are just too great for the institutional shareholders to walk away and sell down their investments.
Qantas staff need to buy a seat on the board.
I wonder how many Qantas shares Qantas employees ALREADY own collectively ?
.
You could be a food producer , make toilet seats , whatever , in this case you're an airline and in their eyes an inefficient, out of date dinosaur
If the workforce can be reduced from 35,000 Australians to 25,000 Australians and the other 10,000 jobs outsourced to Asia costs them HALF of what they are spending in OZ in simple terms they've saved about a half a billion dollars a year at a 10% return that's worth about $5 billion to the value of the company , they've doubled their money and will move on to the next investment opportunity.
The arguments about high safety (why does Qantas need to be safer than other airlines they will ask, why does Qantas have a zero total hull loss record when other major listed airlines can have a major accident every decade and still trade as normal) and being an Australian icon have no currency in their eyes.
The only way I can see the staff getting into a better position to fight is to have equity in the company , as a significant shareholder you have rights to know the corporate strategy to increase 'shareholder value'. To buy the whole company would cost something like $100,000 to $150,000 per employee depending on what happens to the share price but even as a 5% to 10% shareholder ($7,500 to $15,000 per employee) you have significant rights and power.
Politically it would be supported , Qantas staff buying shares in their own airline that in some cases has been their employer since they left school. If you want to fight for survival this is one option open to Qantas staff and you would have board representation , you would know what they know and if facts are concealed from your board member then you have legal rights also. In the longer term with just emotional arguments you are going to lose , the benefits are just too great for the institutional shareholders to walk away and sell down their investments.
Qantas staff need to buy a seat on the board.
I wonder how many Qantas shares Qantas employees ALREADY own collectively ?
.
Last edited by aseanaero; 1st Nov 2011 at 03:45.