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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

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MERGED: Qantas grounded effective immediately.

Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:16
  #801 (permalink)  
 
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from question time,
from transport minister albanese, casa at no time recommended any
grounds for 'grounding the fleet'.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:20
  #802 (permalink)  
 
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From what I'm seeing, CASA have yet to have 'signed off'. See below from CASA tweets:

CASABriefing CASA
Not yet. Not too far away
25 minutes ago

CASABriefing CASA
Work still underway on reviewing Qantas safety case for resumption of flights. Working as quickly as possible.
1 hour ago

CASABriefing CASA
CASA now working on Qantas safety case for resumption of flights. Will be completed as quickly as possible, while ensuring safety.
4 hours ago
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:22
  #803 (permalink)  
 
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So what was the cause of this stress? If the grounding was for that, they had a cure but needed a problem.

It does not make sense.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:33
  #804 (permalink)  
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You said it Jabba, stress would be considerably higher post this whole sorry scenario.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:41
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... verballing the PM & a Minister is not a good look is it .... if he twisted the truth there what else has he twisted along the way?

ABC 1525hrs
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese has angrily contradicted claims by Qantas boss Alan Joyce that he told the Federal Government "on multiple occasions" that he might ground the airline's fleet.

Fair Work Australia (FWA) ordered an end to industrial action in the early hours of this morning, telling Qantas to get its aircraft back into the sky and drop its plans to lock out its workforce.

Fronting a news conference in Sydney this morning, Mr Joyce said grounding the fleet "was not a surprise to anybody".

"We have been talking about it for weeks, months about the pain this was causing Qantas," Mr Joyce said.

But at a press conference this afternoon, a visibly annoyed Mr Albanese described three meetings he had convened with Mr Joyce, union boss Tony Sheldon and himself, where "at no stage" did Mr Joyce say Qantas would initiate a lockout and grounding.

Prime Minister Julia Gillard said she did not accept that Qantas's only choice on Saturday was "to take the extreme action" of grounding all planes and "leaving tens of thousands of passengers stranded".

She also denied newspaper reports that Mr Joyce had attempted to contact her before grounding aircraft.

"That is untrue and Mr Joyce has confirmed today that that is untrue," she told a press conference.

Mr Albanese went through a detailed timeline of telephone calls between himself and Qantas in which he rang Mr Joyce three times on Saturday after one of his staff had been alerted of the impending action.

He said it was only when Mr Joyce finally rang back that he got an indication the Qantas fleet would be grounded.

"That was the first occasion in which Mr Joyce or anyone else from Qantas had ever raised the issue of a lockout," Mr Albanese told reporters.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 05:42
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Qantas Default Fallback Decision

A precedent has now been set.
Whenever Qantas has difficulties with negotiations with any of its 16 unions it will call a lockout.This will in effect end all PIA for all unions at Qantas.
The Fair work act appears to work well......for Qantas.
As a qantas employee many will now have to make a decision :Stay and watch your Tand Cs disappear or go before the inevitable happens .
The staff travel advantages for the Red Q may something to consider and have incorporated into Qantas EBAs
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:01
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CASA approval

Okay, so CASA has now approved the resumption of service: http://twitter.com/#!/CASABriefing
Betcha there are some angry punters at the airport who thought they were resuming quite a bit earlier. I wonder how many domestic flights they actually will get off in what's left of the day?
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:02
  #808 (permalink)  
 
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I don't agree Race.

The grounding was a one off event: I suspect Joyce and the Qantas Board no longer have friends any in Canberra. The Government and FWA reaction may be very different if Qantas try that caper again.

I don't think the game has even reached half time. Events in coming weeks could be very interesting. As there is little honour or honesty in that Board room, I would not be surprised if Joyce is a casualty of his own folly in the fullness of time.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:03
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Un-Australian? The flying roo wants to be

Here is a great article by Stuart Washington. It shows the management for being the Un-Australian people they are.

Un-Australian? The flying roo wants to be
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:14
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Stress and safety

If it was unsafe / too stressful to take off two days before an impending lockout, what about landing flights that were in the air when the grounding was announced? Were those on board at that time endangered?
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:18
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The Government and FWA reaction may be very different if Qantas try that caper again.
Julia was at great pains to point out that she was acting to defend the national interest ie the economy and the tourism industry.

Friends in Canberra or not, if true she would be forced to act the same way again if QF tries the lock out game.

Ergo there is no longer any such thing as protected PIA for any QF employee ever again. And you can extend that logic to all employees working for any major corporate that would hurt the economy if it suddenly stopped trading.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:19
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If it was unsafe / too stressful to take off two days before an impending lockout, what about landing flights that were in the air when the grounding was announced? Were those on board at that time endangered?
Presumably, the crew on board would not know about it. Management would have been careful not to announce it via ACARS or official communication, right? Do pilots have access to other communication networks prior to landing?

--SLF
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:38
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Some Uni IR professor was just on ABC midday news saying that Qantas played the game to the hilt and as others on here mentioned literally forced the hand of Govt to intervene thru FWA and they then had no choice but to decide on termination of PIA as opposed to a temporary suspension.
No agreement has been reached in past (how many months??) between the company and unions given the managements and boards decision to destroy the remains of the company and set up offshore subsidiaries, offshore operations etc so what are the odds they will come to an agreeable compromise in the next 3 weeks???
I’m thinking Zero basically since the arrogant pricks think they have won and will continue to destroy the company with their "Masters of the Aviation Universe Plan".

That means the FWA will forcibly impose a resolution that neither side will likely be happy with given they will/may have to show some " balance " in their decisions to avoid it looking like a totally biased entity.
Or is it already???

FWA approved the past PIA based on the evidence they already heard months ago and now because Qantas pulled this one up brinksmanship move and the national economy will be affected by a prolonged shutdown that makes all the difference so that means all our past hearings and decisions were basically meaningless?? That’s right isn’t it??.

ANOTHER POSSIBILITY, if we think outside the box --

Qantas and the govt are relying now on 1 thing only; BOTH sides agreeing to the FWA process.
What happens if they DO NOT AGREE TO ABIDE BY IT????

If after 21 days no agreement is reached and FWA is forced to come up with a forced agreement that may or may not be a "Fair" compromise, IF ALL the unions involved decide to take REAL Industrial Action and go on strike, a REAL strike, non of this PIA politically correct nonsense.
Then what happens???

Are the Govt and the company going to sit back and watch Qantas totally go under??? NO……
Who gets forced to back down then??

They cannot fire everybody or take everyone and every union to court etc can they???
That won’t solve anything if no one is at work then no flying and no more airline.

That is EXACTLY what Joyce just did, NO WORKERS ARE ALLOWED TO WORK SO I WILL GROUND THE ENTIRE FLEET AND TO HELL WITH THE $20-30MILLION A DAY IT’S COSTING THE COMPANY LET ALONE THE NATIONAL ECONOMY!! SCREW YOU ALL.

The unions could force the Govt to change the Qantas sales act to prevent this setting up offshore companies etc whilst destroying the Australian company, and then intervene to have the board and all upper management removed and get in a group who can do to Qantas what Fyfe and his team did with ANZ in the past 10 yrs.
If it can be done to ANZ it certainly can be done with Qantas!!!

They just “intervened” now to force FWA to take action, whether it was legal or not, to give the company what it wanted so they can do it again to make the situation “Right”.

The Govt gets around its own laws when it suits them for whatever reason/excuse they want to give, national interest, national security etc.

I LIKE SOOOOO MANY OTHERS AM SICK TO DEATH AND FED UP WITH SEEING GOVT AND GREEDY CORPORATIONS SCREW OVER THE COUNTRY AND ITS PEOPLE UNDER SOME BS TOTALLY MISGUIDED GUISE OF “DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR THE PEOPLE/WORKERS/NATIONAL INTEREST” WHEN THE ONLY DAMN INTEREST BEING SERVED IS THEIR OWN!!!

RANT OVER ….. SWITCHES OFF.

Last edited by aussie027; 31st Oct 2011 at 07:00.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:38
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So how many pilots are now going to call in 'sick due workplace relations stress'? Then over time that 'WRS' becomes 'PTSD' and so on....Psychiatrists and Psychologists will be booked out for months!

Torres totally agree with your assessment, I think this is just the start! Do you think DB (may he RIP) would have had the balls to do a Joyce?
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:44
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Are the Govt and the company going to sit back and watch Qantas totally go under??? NO……
Wanna bet?

QANTAS, Virgin Aust & the Govt. have 21 days to get all the paperwork sorted for overseas carriers to come out and operate domestic services.

Next time everyone will be ready for a QF shutdown, this one took most people by surprise, the next one won't.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:48
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The interview this morning on the Today Show with the 'Minister for Bad Teeth' was hilarious! Has he had a stroke or was he drunk?? An inarticulate buffoon who can't even speak English! When Karl asked the question as to 'what regulatory work was required by CASA to get QF back in the air' the Minister kept dribbling about schedules. WTF??? A totally inept monkey boy. It was an absolute popcorn moment, very entertaining and embarressing. But not as embarressing as watching the Carbon Queen live at SPROGM in Perth, walking like a man with her Hair Dresser in tow !! F#ck me this country has taken a dive towards the bottom of the sewer pit.

Who would have thought that our Nation and national icon would be held to ransom by a potato farmer from cloud cuckoo land?
One thing is for certain wee man, Australians know how to fight outside the rule set, you can work that one out for yourself, but if it is low blows and a dirty war you want then that is what you will get, I think you have understimated what you perceive to be your enemy.
Tick tock tick tock.

And of course CASA signed off QF ASAP. What a surprise, NOT. They can't do ANYTHING without it taking months and/or years but they can get the Rat back in the air after a handful of hours?? Spare me.
However, I would like to be a fly on the wall at Fort Fumble, I imagine that all this farcicle behaviour would have the Skull screaming at the top of his voice!! Somebody better get the angry man an extra case of stoogies !
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 06:59
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Can somebody tell me what stress the pilots and engineers were suffering from when they had no idea of this snap shutdown?

Surely it was no different to a week ago?

Anyone?

I was on the last plane out of Sydney.....sounds like a song, to Brisbane so was I so much at risk? I doubt it
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 07:03
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You may say that CASA signed off ASAP, but they're obviously getting some stick via T W I T T E R (stupid censorship):

CASABriefing CASA
We only got Qantas plan at 10:30 am.
6 minutes ago

CASABriefing CASA
We have human factors people. All done carefully
6 minutes ago

CASABriefing CASA
Had to make sure safety was up to standard.
9 minutes ago

Last edited by SimonBl; 31st Oct 2011 at 07:13.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 07:22
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Am stranded in LHR AND on staff travel, soooo it looks like a full fare on SQ. (At least in 89 I was only in CBR!) Oh well **** happens. Guys am so sorry that you have been insulted, abused, and degraded, by that little Joyce, am so sorry that the travelling public do not know the truth, the sad, slow destruction of such a great company and airline, but if it makes you feel any better I have told everybody stranded at LHR that I could speak to, the actual truth. I feel at least I could put in my own little protest on behalf of many of you. (Not all obviously). Oh well, we had them too. Good luck to you all, don't let the bastard get you down, people power guys, people power, they won back Libya, you can win back the company, and let QF go on to be the great company it was and can be again. Good luck to you all, fight back and don't let the turkey get you down. Viva le victory, QF staff.
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Old 31st Oct 2011, 07:23
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Originally Posted by A Smug DJ737
Next time everyone will be ready for a ... shutdown
So they will, DJ737. Be careful what you wish for.
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