Luton-9 [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

AvGeek1

20th Sep 2017, 21:23

ABZ – 5
ALC – 15
AMS – 40
AYT – 2
BCN – 20
BSL – 7
BFS – 24
SXF – 13
BJV – 2
BOD – 7
CFU – 5
HER – 3
PFO – 5
DTM – 7
DBV – 3
EDI – 22
ESU – 2
FAO – 17
GVA – 13
GLA – 16
HAM – 6
IBZ – 7
INV – 12
IOM – 3
JER – 5
ACE – 2
LIS – 19
LYS – 6
MAD – 9
PMI – 16 (Jun, varies massively other months)
AGP – 20
MRS – 4
MAH – 3
MXP – 14
MUC – 6
JMK – 2
NTE – 4
NAP – 7
NCE – 16
CDG – 21
PSA – 8
OPO – 4
KEF – 6
RHO – 2
FCO – 6
AHO – 3
OLB – 2
SVQ – 3
CTA – 4
SPU – 4
ARN – 4
TLV – 12
TFS – 3
TLS – 6
VLC – 3
VCE – 7
VIE – 4
ZAD – 2
ZRH – 5

= 498 weekly departures (with June PMI)

BIQ & MPL not loaded

planedrive

20th Sep 2017, 22:39

HAM appears to end on 24th March 2018 on the easyJet website, not loaded for next summer yet

LGS6753

21st Sep 2017, 07:15

EZY to operate around 500 flights per week next summer, but that's not too far ahead of WZZ, who are currently operating about 350.

Spanish eyes

21st Sep 2017, 08:24

Which points to the fact that including routes from Easyjet, Tarom, Blue Air and Ryanair around half of all passengers using Luton are Eastern Europeans.

planedrive

21st Sep 2017, 16:58

Does anyone know whether Thomas Cook are returning next year?

southside bobby

21st Sep 2017, 19:14

No evidence of a Thomas Cook presence @ LTN in 2018...credit their own Summer 18 short haul timetable in PDF format..

LTNman

22nd Sep 2017, 15:16

From the Luton rumour mill. Norwegian looking into setting up a UK base at Luton with Luton as the UK HQ using Monarch assets I here.

pabely

22nd Sep 2017, 15:21

PA: Norwegian vurderer å kjøpe Monarch Airlines - Norwegian Air Shuttle - Næringsliv - E24 (http://e24.no/naeringsliv/norwegian-air-shuttle/pa-norwegian-vurderer-aa-kjoepe-monarch-airlines/24147621)

LTNman

22nd Sep 2017, 15:38

Monarch has such a long history at Luton which goes back 50 years from its inception. I hope it survives for another 50 years but if its name does disappear Norwegian could be very good for Luton and they could just snap up some of those new slots that will be coming to Luton with the completion of this phase of building work.

I guess it is a case of watch this space as easyjet and Wizz could do battle with a new boy on the Luton block.

Buster the Bear

22nd Sep 2017, 16:00

fjencl

22nd Sep 2017, 16:23

Regarding the new LTN base for wizz air. What routes is the 1 based aircraft operating each day. ???

LTNman

22nd Sep 2017, 16:34

I think officially there is one based aircraft but in reality 3 Wizz aircraft night stopped for the summer peak. No idea about what is happening for the winter season or even now.

toledoashley

23rd Sep 2017, 07:37

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/business/business-news/512319/norwegian-air-eyes-monarch-airlines-deal-sources-say/

I would suggest the prime targets are the slots for Manchester and Gatwick. A Luton base may just be a re-branding of current Monarch routes, should such a take over happen?

From what I'm being told Norwegian are not interested in short haul - specifically looking for Gatwick slots to expand long haul.

compton3bravo

23rd Sep 2017, 07:52

Could they not move some short haul from Gatwick freeing slots for long haul. Just a thought.

Buster the Bear

23rd Sep 2017, 08:04

They are also looking for feeder traffic for the long-haul, thus the recent deal with easyJet and the 'failed' agreement with Ryanair.

toledoashley

23rd Sep 2017, 08:15

Could they not move some short haul from Gatwick freeing slots for long haul. Just a thought.

Like Monarch, they have said they can't compete on SH, especially from the UK. So, I would rate that as unlikely.

AvGeek1

23rd Sep 2017, 15:15

daz211

23rd Sep 2017, 16:31

Agree IBZ is a good money maker and if you look at STN on a Saturday they have 7 flights to Ibiza with multiple carriers it one of those routes that sell well and fill well.

gilesdavies

25th Sep 2017, 08:26

I have always thought the same, easyJet should at least be 2 daily on weekends, with maybe an extra on a weekday, increasing to 9 weekly. Since Ryanair launched Faro head to head with easyJet, I have thought that maybe they might try LTN-IBZ.

If easyJet can get away with charging top dollar on the IBZ to LTN route, why would they want to dilute this by offering greater frequency.

Luton is the only London base they don't have competition on this route from another carrier at the same airport (with the exception of Southend and thats not a proper London airport), and have probably taken a view. That the price conscious traveller will fly to IBZ from another of their London bases and where they have to operate the same route cheaper to compete with the competition, reserving the seats out LTN for the people willing to pay more.

The Faro route is operate by an aircraft from Ryanair's base there and they don't operate a base out of IBZ. The LTN based aircraft for Ryanair, their schedule is pretty much maxxed out and with the exception of CPH (when that operated), Ryanair and easyJet seem to keep their distance at competing on routes.

Planespeaking

25th Sep 2017, 08:31

You state that SEN is not a 'proper London airport'. What is your basis for that assertion?

port_94

25th Sep 2017, 09:06

As loaders we hear all kinds of rubbish but this one is strange

We heard today from an EZY manager (former loader colleague) that the airport are in talks with them to relocate out of the big orange eyesore hanger and rip it down to explore all possibilities for the Mass Passenger Transit System?
The airport are in frequent talks with EZY to find possible land for the new Hangar they require.

Sounding stupid but easyJet’s response was also strange. Apparently from the roumor, some staff will be going soon and either relocating to their Euro HQ or down the job centre. From what we hear it’s kinda uncertain times for the big orange at LTN

Sounds stupid and unlikely to me but thought I’d share.

LTNman

25th Sep 2017, 13:02

I mentioned sometime ago that easyjet had outgrown their HQ and were looking for somewhere else close to the airport but I can’t remember now who told me. That might not be the case now that some of their jobs might move to the European mainland.

I also said before it was announced that the site of the orange hanger would be a good location for a station. With the station build delayed until the multi story is built they have time for second thoughts. The issue though is the timescale. Doubt the hangar could go in under 4 years.

toledoashley

25th Sep 2017, 18:22

May there be another HQ become available soon... maybe?

gilesdavies

25th Sep 2017, 23:38

You state that SEN is not a 'proper London airport'. What is your basis for that assertion?

Well...

I'm not looking to get into any arguments about it, which I'm sure you are gunning for, and I'm sure the SEN fanboys will disagree with my view.

However as you asked, I said that as:

- It is not considered a London airport if you search booking engines on major travel websites with just "London" or "LDN", with it only returning results for LHR, LGW, STN, LTN and LCY.

- The airport doesn't fall under London ATC.

- Public Transport to the capital early morning and late at night to/from London is almost impossible if you are catching a flight before 7.30am and arriving after 10pm. With it being a minor base for easyJet and FlyBE/Stobart Air, early departures and late arrivals are inevitable.

It sounds a very respectable little regional secondary airport for the people of Essex to use, but that's all it is. Being on par with the likes of Exeter, Humberside or Doncaster, just serving the locality.

That's all I'll say in the matter, in this forum, as it's a little off topic.

Expressflight

26th Sep 2017, 07:07

gilesdavies

Well I don't know if you don't consider Kayak, Skyscanner, Expedia, Opodo and Booking.com "major travel websites" but they all show SEN when 'London, all airports' is selected as the departure point. I didn't bother checking more than those five. The official London tourist website visitlondon.com lists SEN. IATA recognises SEN as a London airport.

Yes, a very good idea not to say any more I think.

LTNman

26th Sep 2017, 16:28

Plenty of business for all of London Airports. SEN could add another million or two and the other London Airports would not even notice.

Buster the Bear

26th Sep 2017, 20:54

I understand that Gulfstream will be leaving Luton for Stansted. Who will take their hangar? Sadly they cannot find a location to build a larger complex at Luton.

LTNman

26th Sep 2017, 22:56

The hangar back to Signature?

pabely

27th Sep 2017, 12:33

Buster, we knew about this back in June, posted on Luton -8
They already have an operation at STN but I was told they are moving to a new complex at another site, south of the river.

Buster the Bear

27th Sep 2017, 14:16

The assumption was the Luton operation would continue, but staff have very recently been told they will all be leaving at some point to Stansted having not found an agreeable site to expand into at Luton.

gilesdavies

28th Sep 2017, 07:24

I was hoping there might be someone on here with a good memory and previously remember what routes Ryanair was operating this winter from LTN...

Ryanair yesterday announced it was cutting a number of routes for the winter period at short notice, on top of the flights cancelled a few weeks ago.

While none in the announcement yesterday are saying Luton is effected. I've noticed Faro and Las Palmas are going to to end in October and restart next year in April.

Was this always the intention and has it previously shown up on there booking system as so?

I was under the impression both these routes were year round. Especially when you consider FAO and LPA are popular winter destinations.

I was just wondering if they had stealthily suspended the routes and will automatically transfer people on to these routes from STN. Because at the end of the day they still have the route operating in the sense of to/from London, all be it just from Stansted now.

1sky

28th Sep 2017, 07:34

robbie1973

28th Sep 2017, 08:41

Spanish eyes

28th Sep 2017, 09:34

Seems like there was some sort of meeting yesterday with a committee that wants to keep the local park intact.

There was talk of a terminal 2 going in on the long term car park with a single pier. This came from the committee rather then the airport who apparently looked a little surprised that they knew something was afoot. Something like this was drawn up by the committee as to what might be going through the airports mind.

https://i.imgur.com/zM6RkYU.jpg?1

pabely

28th Sep 2017, 11:09

We will await to hear from LTNman whether he attended?

I think most here always suspected that a T2 would be on the cards at some point.

LTNman

28th Sep 2017, 11:46

Lets just say all that is lacking in the above interpretation is the wavy line for the DART link to T2. Can't think who drew the original.

pabely

28th Sep 2017, 11:54

Lets just say all that is lacking in the above interpretation is the wavy line for the DART link to T2.;) Can't think who drew the original.

Nuff Said!:oh:

LTNman

28th Sep 2017, 12:40

Hints of what is to come with the lattice work now in place over the future entrance to the security hall. The retail outlets will be the other side of the hoarding in the new build.

https://i.imgur.com/pQR9IxQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tTcfxMC.jpg

Work has started to finish off the front of the terminal. Note the cover that will block the view of the old terminal balcony. The ground in front of the terminal is now being raised with hardcore.

https://i.imgur.com/JQr5hCZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3sMzXQM.jpg

The roundabout has been planted.

https://i.imgur.com/e8rgpKR.jpg

Work has started to tidy up the surplus building material dumping ground. This is set to become the car hire centre car park after the new multistory is built but in the meantime it will slightly add a few parking bays as half the short term car park is due to close after Christmas.

https://i.imgur.com/4utRCxc.jpg

FRatSTN

30th Sep 2017, 22:27

Not sure if it's been mentioned but Sun Express (XQ) will start 2x weekly Luton to Antalya eff. 18JUN 2018

No sign of Izmir as yet for Summer '18

Captain_Caveman

1st Oct 2017, 23:55

Expect a few Qatar Airways A320 flights over the next few days operating for the UK CAA instead of scheduled Monarch flights. NAP/ARN/AGP arrivals will be first ones tomorrow. Sad times for everyone involved.

Lee Baker Street

2nd Oct 2017, 03:36

Well it’s now official. I think it is a shame and I hope all the staff and passengers are well looked after.

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 04:21

Shocking:{ For me there has always been a Monarch at Luton. What has happened to their engineering side, has that be wound up? Then there is their apprentice school.

Monarch have two large hangars next to each other plus other smaller former aircraft hangars. Could Gulfstream move into these or is it too late now and the contracts have been signed? What will happen their HQ and is it big enough for easyjet if they wanted to move out of the CTA?

At least 9 departures due out today using 5 aircraft so this will make a dent in the airports passenger figures. Luton will have plenty of overnight stands now available.

MKY661

2nd Oct 2017, 04:29

MAEL is not in Administration and is still operating at this current time. Wether it'll be rebranded remains to be seen.

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 04:36

Most of their work at Luton was for Monarch. It can only mean bad news. So sad for all the staff.:(

The MAEL team will be doing everything possible to ensure that our engineering business survives and prospers and carries forward the Monarch name with pride and dedication to professionalism and service.

I have put a photo on the History thread of Monarch in its heyday. http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/527527-luton-history-nostalgia-127.html

wallp

2nd Oct 2017, 08:35

Lee Baker Street

2nd Oct 2017, 09:06

Incredbly sad to learn of Monarch’s collapse. They’ve been around as long as I have. I’ve got so many fond memories of watching their planes - the old 720’s and 1-11’s at Luton as a kid and having the pleasure of flying with them since. A long, proud history, I guess their demise was inevitable in the end but the airline industrry and in particular Luton Airport without Monarch just wont be the same :(

I once viewed some photos of me as a child with their Bristol Britannia’s in the background. Like you, I loved the 720b’s and one-ellevens but equally the 707-320 that operated from LTN I think around 1978?

Does anyone know if a book was in the ‘making’ into what would have been it’s 50th year of operations next year? I need to buy it!

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 10:48

Media circus at Monarch HQ while 4 aircraft are parked up including these 2 on the south stands.

https://i.imgur.com/N9PEgUX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O8hyoxI.jpg

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 13:52

Just pulled the stat out for Monarch for 2016. They were Luton's 4th largest airline in terms of movements with 4,587, which was 4.5% of all airline movements.

wallp

2nd Oct 2017, 15:10

I presume easyJet will look to poach these slots?

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 15:16

Who knows, suddenly Gatwick has spare capacity, they could even move capacity out of Luton to fill Gatwick first.

pabely

2nd Oct 2017, 15:37

That would be up to KPMG to get the best price I would have thought, assuming they are of value on the books. If not used for a period of time would they not just go back into a pool to be sold by the airport?

22/04

2nd Oct 2017, 15:42

LTN and BHX will certainly be down next year now. Easy may well deploy more aircraft at LGW; LTN was to see at least a couple of A321 Neos I believe but may be not now. Remember that TUI will also base fewer aircraft next year too. I wonder if that might be reversed now- did Monarch carry many of their pax-or those of Thomas Cook

I thought Jet2 might have over-expanded but they and STN will probably be the overall winners.

MKY661

2nd Oct 2017, 15:55

I could see EasyJet Starting a LTN-GIB route from next year tbh.

pabely

2nd Oct 2017, 16:25

I was surprised they never did after they took over GB Airways but the MON product from Luton was loyal and good then.

LTNman

2nd Oct 2017, 16:28

Gatwick is the prize with Luton and Stansted doing well out of a lack of capacity at Gatwick. How many Monarch aircraft were based there as I doubt their slots will remain unfilled for long.

pabely

2nd Oct 2017, 16:34

Currently 9 parked up at Gatwick so likely to had at least 18 slot pairs a day.

Buster the Bear

2nd Oct 2017, 16:35

9 parked up at Gatwick, 11 at Birmingham, 9 at Manchester & G-ZBAR on lease from Air Malta at Leeds.

scr1

2nd Oct 2017, 17:43

Will anyone take over the ovda/eliat route. Was looking to go again in march. would be a shame to see it go. As it is a great shame that Monarch has gone

whitelighter

2nd Oct 2017, 20:48

Who knows, suddenly Gatwick has spare capacity, they could even move capacity out of Luton to fill Gatwick first.

Possible. I think it's probably more likely STN will lose an airframe or two if they can pick up Gatwick slots. That's assuming EZY are allowed to bid for them, or aren't out bid by BA or Norweigen who want to ramp up long haul at Gatwick

EZY can probably always get STN slots, though it's unlikely FR, TOM or TCX will want to jump into LTN so I guess Wizz is the on,y airline likely to scoop up the slots. *if* ezy do get the bulk of Gatwick slots then it's conceivable LTN may lose an airframe for a time

gilesdavies

2nd Oct 2017, 22:31

I hope another airline comes in and replaces Monarch and the slots are not absorbed by the big existing carriers based at LTN... While I appreciate the airline had a far smaller presence at the airport, that compared to other carriers, I think the airport needs to try and continue to diversify its portfolio as much as possible, and try not to be so reliant on on the likes of easyJet and Wizz...

The only actual routes lost is Gibraltar, Dalaman (think TOM might operate it as a charter route) and Ovda, and just shows the competition Monarch were up against, and this is just at Luton! Will be good to see Gibraltar and Dalaman brought back, but not sure if Ovda brings much value?

Im not sure we'll see easyJet adding much additional frequency to the old overlapping routes, as this just dilutes the current fares on these routes and frequencies might only get added closer to the start of Summer 2018, if and when existing flights get booked up.

Im not too sure how realistic it is another carrier will expand or open a new base at Luton, would be great to see Vueling grow, but not too convinced of that either, as it has remained static for the past year or two.

LTNman

3rd Oct 2017, 06:09

I think 2016 was Luton’s year with 2017 and so far 2018 being Stansted’s years for new airlines particularly jet2.

With plenty of stand capacity now available with the demise of Monarch and with the new stands that are now complete there will be no rush to grab them in fear of missing the boat. Factor in the spare capacity that has come on tap at Gatwick, the push at Stansted for new business and it is unlikely Luton will see a rush of new carriers. Luton’s bottom place Which survey of 29% will not help either or it’s focus on just low cost carriers.

Might be the case that Signature could get back the use of stands 16-19 for overnight parking if they asked nicely until they are needed again.

davidjohnson6

3rd Oct 2017, 06:36

If a London-Ovda route returns, it will almost certainly be from Luton or not at all. Ovda / Israel is offering some hefty subsidies to airlines bringing in foreign tourists and Ryanair has made use of this in a big way. The only catch is that while routes like Bratislava-Ovda have had healthy load factors, Luton-Ovda has sometimes had quite mediocre load factors - not sure if there is enough demand for a 5h30 flight to a destination which is expensive in GBP terms

gilesdavies

3rd Oct 2017, 10:57

While I am sure ex-Monarch pilots and cabin crew are already on the ball looking for jobs, I saw this on LinkedIn and thought I'd post...

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/gilesdavies/IMG_20171003_114514.jpg (http://s103.photobucket.com/user/gilesdavies/media/IMG_20171003_114514.jpg.html)

Wizz Air - Career Opportunities (http://ldd.tbe.taleo.net/ldd03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=WIZZAIR&cws=1&rid=753)

Also BBC Three Counties Radio were reporting easyJet were holding recruitment days this coming Thursday and Friday.

Probably a very different culture and working conditions to Monarch, but in this day and age we all need a job to pay our rent /mortgages to keep a roof over our heads and put food food in our mouths!

Hope it helps.

Buster the Bear

3rd Oct 2017, 17:57

IAG recently stated that after rapid expansion by Vueling, growth for 2017 was cut right back after many issues at Barcelona, but shareholders were to expect further expansion from the airline during 2018.

planedrive

4th Oct 2017, 16:52

Rumours of LTN and LBA bases for Thomas Cook next year to replace some of the lost Monarch capacity. Anyone know any more?

LTNman

4th Oct 2017, 16:55

Monarch was a scheduled service airline while Thomas Cook isn't. Seems unlikely but what do I know.

LAX_LHR

4th Oct 2017, 17:01

You can buy Thomas Cook seat only on many outlets as it is a scheduled airline now,

canberra97

4th Oct 2017, 21:25

But not in the same sense as Monarch were, even TUI sell a proportion of seat only sales but at the end of the day they are basically a charter airline just like Thomas Cook are, both affiliated airlines to their respective inclusive tour companies. Although Thomas Cook operate scheduled flights to the United States of America from Manchester all of their other flights are charter flights on behalf of the parent company Thomas Cook Holidays.

Thomas Cook Airlines and TUI are the last remaining British in house charter airlines affiliated to their respective holiday brands.

darren1

4th Oct 2017, 22:00

All Thomas Cook flights are available for purchase in the GDS under the code MT.

Buster the Bear

4th Oct 2017, 22:17

Can a MAX 8 reach the east coast of N American from Luton's runway?

I fully assume Greybull will hand the Boeing order over to another airline to operate long haul. Birmingham seems more likely though. Swaffield in the days before 'Admin' set up a consultancy company. As far as I am aware, the orders for MAX 8 have not been cancelled by Greybull, but they have placed the 'short haul' operation into Administration having taken KPMG on board to sell the short haul and 'failed'. Funny eh, how KPMG picked up the 'Admin' work!

Anyway, can Luton-Providence be flown on a hot day fully loaded from Luton?

pabely

4th Oct 2017, 22:47

Now why would you mention an airport which already has a European carrier with significant presence and ties with a Luton based airline and has other MAX8's on order........?:oh:

LAX_LHR

5th Oct 2017, 12:28

Thomas Cook based routes:

AYT: Tue/Fri
BJV: Sun
CFU:Thu
DLM: Mon/Wed/Thu/Sat
NBE: Tue/Fri
ADB: Sat
LCA: Wed
PMI: Mon

planedrive

5th Oct 2017, 13:11

Any source for that? Presume 1 a/c and a leased in one at that?

LAX_LHR

5th Oct 2017, 13:13

https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/generated/timetable_S2018.pdf

22/04

5th Oct 2017, 13:29

I think Thomas Cook placed considerable numbers of passengers on Monarch flights- goes back to the days when Airtours took much of the Saturday Palma etc. capacity on those A300s - remember MON 1326/7 anyone? They operated Corfu this year perhaps because Monarch no longer went there.

Unless they placed them on EasyJet flights , they would now be seriously short of capacity ex LTN next season. Whether these will be TCX aircraft or Smart Lynx etc. of course remains to be seen.

Enfidha and Izmir would be new though and surprised not more Palma.

LTNman

5th Oct 2017, 14:38

13 flight a week so would this be a Luton based aircraft? Seems like there is plenty of opportunity to add more flights otherwise the aircraft will be spending most of its time on the ground.

22/04

5th Oct 2017, 14:51

13 flight a week so would this be a Luton based aircraft? Seems like there is plenty of opportunity to add more flights otherwise the aircraft will be spending most of its time on the ground

Not really.

I have a friend who flies for TCX. He doesn't do more than two sectors a day and the aircraft only usually two return flights - one short (e.g. PMI or ALC) and one long e.g. AYT or MJV) or two long ones. So there isn''t really much slack there apart from Saturday when I suspect the aircraft will either do a W-pattern into somewhere else or say a second PMI will be added during the school hols.

TCX and TUI haven't got sucked into the short turnaround high utilisation game that the Loco's have- they still operate as they have for years and 1-1.5 hour turnarounds are the norm.

Falcon666

5th Oct 2017, 15:03

As 22/04 has just stated there are a lot of near 4hr flights.
Just checked for Enfidha in June and it's a 06.30 dep so yeah one based a/c it seems.

gilesdavies

5th Oct 2017, 16:50

Great news if this comes to fruition...

The routes and frequencies they want to operate, are quite a surprise. For example Dalaman 4x weekly and Enfida/Hammarmet 2x weekly. Especially as these are likely to be charter flights and airlines like Thomson would only operate these weekly, especially from a secondary base like Luton (when compared to the size of bases like LGW, BHX and MAN).

Also a surprise to see no routes to Spain, except for a token weekly service to Palma.

Even though the PDF says flights to be operated by Thomas Cook and has the MT prefix on their booking system, it appears the routes will be flown by an A320 and they only operate A321 type. So I suspect this will be a leased aircraft, I think this year Thomas Cook have been leasing an A320 from Avion Express of Lithuania, which is based out of Cardiff, so could be a similar arrangement next year.

The Scheduling looks like:
(According to the PDF)

Monday - Dalaman, Palma
Tuesday - Enfida, Antalya
Wednesday - Dalaman, Larnaca
Thursday - Corfu, Dalaman
Friday - Enfida, Antalya
Saturday - Dalaman, Izmir
Sunday - Bodrum

Reason for my caution is last year Thomas Cook announced they were meant to operate 4-5 routes from Luton, and as we got closer to the summer season these disappeared and only Corfu happened in the end. Also I cannot see the Antalya, Bodrum or Izmir flights on sale.

22/04

5th Oct 2017, 16:56

Agree about the destinations-

Dalaman, Larnaca would have been operated by Monarch as would Palma and they might be able to source capacity elsewhere for the latter.

Maybe the others are where they perceive they might be able to add capacity from a London area airport. As you say if these don't reach expectations, they may be able cancel the sub-chartered aircraft so needs to be treated with caution but welcome nonetheless.

Now it's laid out in an easier to read format what I said about Saturday in my last post looks to be true for Sunday.

robbie1973

5th Oct 2017, 17:12

If you try to book flights through Thomas Cook to either Bodrum or Antalya it shows EasyJet flight details, I wasn't able to find any schedule for the Izmir flight !

LAX_LHR

5th Oct 2017, 17:21

Izmir:

MT182 LTN 0630 ADB 1220
MT183 ADB 1335 LTN 1540

Saturday's.

FRatSTN

5th Oct 2017, 18:05

TCX and TUI haven't got sucked into the short turnaround high utilisation game that the Loco's have- they still operate as they have for years and 1-1.5 hour turnarounds are the norm.

But as you say yourself, they can only ever really operate two return trips per day because their average sector lengths are longer than that of say EZY or FR.

As such, there's no benefit in short turns for MT or TOM as on the whole it would never be sufficient enough to provide a third rotation. It's partially the same reason why low-cost long-haul has always been a challenge.

Good to see anyway MT are finally at LTN in some reasonable quantity. Just a shame it's only following such sad circumstances.

22/04

5th Oct 2017, 18:58

Interestingly many of the destinations are similar for LBA, except they have MAH and TFS. I am beginning if this is a slot sitter to protect their business until they can really assess the fall out of Monarch going, to destinations that are not themselves slot constrained.

Buster the Bear

8th Oct 2017, 00:20

Well I never! A new company, Shelfco, was set up, to hive off the prospective long-haul Monarch and its costly Boeing orders.

And

Records show Mr Swaffield became chief executive of another company, Shelfco 2017, that was set-up on September 25.

The other directors include Nils Christy, Monarch’s chief operating officer, and Christopher Bennett, its finance director.

It is registered at Monarch’s Luton Airport headquarters.

toledoashley

8th Oct 2017, 04:26

I was of the understanding the ShelfCo was the other way round, it was a mechanism to sell, rather than retention for LH.

gilesdavies

9th Oct 2017, 12:03

LTNman

9th Oct 2017, 12:17

The completion date for the physical connection of the taxiway to 08 is the 16th December with a 2 week reserve period in January if finished late.

No idea how long is needed after that before it opens.

canberra97

9th Oct 2017, 13:09

As I refuse to pay Wizz Air the extra to have a window seat on their flights, I've missed this the last few times as we've taxi'd out to runway 8...

The new taxiway is really taking shape, and looks like it might be ready for next summer!

Great work.

https://www.facebook.com/LDNLutonAirport/videos/1446072388779878/

I don't use Facebook and I've never been a member of Facebook but with that link that you provided it shows people's comments saying what a disgraceful airport Luton is and how ashamed they are with the fact that the airport classes itself as a London Airport. So after all the redevelopment people are still commenting on how terrible it is but to be totally honest it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Alsacienne

9th Oct 2017, 13:26

Travelled from here this morning (as SLF) but amazed at how unfriendly the entrance is ... the glass doors that face the bus stops/set down/car parks are for emergency exit only. As you approach them there's a white board fence with some adverts for the company doing the work, but it isn't helpful, and looks very amateur.

So you turn left 90° once you get to the metal hanger with the glass doors,to enter the building and less than 10 m (or so it seems) from the entrance, straight in front of you, suspended from the roof is a monitor of all the flights and their gates ... so everyone stops, and bunches up right back to the doors (and this was at a quiet time).

So, for those without baggage to check in, (which is relatively clearly marked) you have to find the departures security point ... on the far back wall almost hidden. There are snaking rows of cord to guide you to the scanners, but apart from the slightly wider lines used for prams, it seems to be random which line you should take.

Security was rapid and pleasant this morning ... so it was up the escalators to the same commercial disaster as Manchester or Stansted but with a matt floor rather than a glittery one. Thank goodness for some natural light at the furthest point in the departures lounge by Boots. But make sure you're fit because my gate was only shown at 10.05, my boarding pass said that the gate closed at 10H10 for a flight departure at 10H40 ... and Gate 3 is a 'sacré trot' from the departure lounge even for fit folk!

The more streamlining and user-friendly facilities for both passengers and professionals the better!

LTNman

9th Oct 2017, 13:53

I don't use Facebook and I've never been a member of Facebook but with that link that you provided it shows people's comments saying what a disgraceful airport Luton is and how ashamed they are with the fact that the airport classes itself as a London Airport. So after all the redevelopment people are still commenting on how terrible it is but to be totally honest it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

A look at Stansted reviews at https://www.facebook.com/pg/STNAirport/reviews/?ref=page_internal reveals they don't appear to be any better. The only difference is that at least moaning people get an airport spokesman to at least reply. At Luton they get nothing.

As for Southend people are moaning about freezing to death outside a locked terminal on this website. At least passengers at both LTN and STN can get inside.

https://www.sleepinginairports.net/community/reviews/london-southend-airport-reviews.htm

Alsacienne

9th Oct 2017, 13:59

Well I saw a large number waiting outside in the relative cool this morning around 09H45 after a Wizz and an EZY flight arrived at adjacent gates

LTNman

9th Oct 2017, 14:05

Travelled from here this morning (as SLF) but amazed at how unfriendly the entrance is ... the glass doors that face the bus stops/set down/car parks are for emergency exit only. As you approach them there's a white board fence with some adverts for the company doing the work, but it isn't helpful, and looks very amateur.

That entrance is temporary. When I say temporary I mean 2 years temporary.
:eek:

I live in hope that one of the finished entrances will open for Christmas seeing that the shell of that part of the building was erected at the end of 2016 but with not a hint of a canopy being installed and the front of the terminal just a pile of rubble I think I am going to be disappointed. I am thinking work will be carrying into next summer on the terminal for all those parts of the project that can't be started yet.

I think the airport also scores really badly when it comes to signage. It doesn't take much to create but it is really poor at the moment.

Also heard from a senior figure that the £100 million upgrade that became £110 million is looking more like £150 million due to severe over runs of the project.

pabely

9th Oct 2017, 15:23

Also heard from a senior figure that the £100 million upgrade that became £110 million is looking more like £150 million due to severe over runs of the project.

Would they not have been fixed price contracts or has more work just been committed to earlier, partly because of the rise in passenger numbers and the rail link coming on stream earlier?

Falcon666

9th Oct 2017, 16:01

I wonder if that overrun is due to all the work needed in supporting the Undercroft road section because that looked from the outside to have added at least 6-9 months work.
Is the second MSCP included in the new figure I wonder?

Wouldn't it be nice to just have the space that STN has!

Have heard all sorts of stories about larger biz jets wanting to use LTN and just being told it's full, sorry , off to STN with you.

southside bobby

9th Oct 2017, 16:30

Falcon666...Yes absolutely....STN has been accepting a fair bit of extra Biz traffic because of constraints @ LTN (I have viewed some unofficial figures) space is part of the problem for LTN but I understand there are also R/W usage & "noise" thresholds considerations in play too.

LTNman

9th Oct 2017, 17:48

That £110 million or £150 million, if the guy was telling the truth, is the cost of the 3 phases of the development. Phase 3 hasn't even started yet which is Taxiway Foxtrot, the extension to Taxiway Alpha, to get it closer to the end of runway 26 and the conversion and expansion of the Signature stands by the former flying club.

If you think that Luton suffers from a lack of bizjet stands just wait until 2019 when those stands go back to the airport.

The new multistory is not part of the existing development so will be funded separately or as part of the DART link.

Alsacienne

9th Oct 2017, 19:24

Saw all the biz jets and wondered who planned the spaces on the apron! More like aviation tetris!

LTNman

9th Oct 2017, 22:44

Nooks and crannies comes to mind or squeezing a quart into a pint pot. It must be a full time job for the tug drivers to move aircraft that are buried 2 or 3 deep to get them to the front of the apron for departure

This photo taken a few years ago highlights Luton's problem

https://i.imgur.com/jHo6XVB.jpg

Level bust

10th Oct 2017, 10:52

I was always amazed how they fitted them all in! Bit of a B****r if the one at the back suddenly decided to depart a few days earlier than planned!

planedrive

10th Oct 2017, 11:00

New timeline for the completion of works announced by the airport:
March 2018 - Pier B
Spring 2018 - Terminal Infill
Summer 2018 - Immigration Area and Security Phase 2
Autumn 2018 - Baggage Hall

LTNman

10th Oct 2017, 11:12

Bottom line, another 13 months of work in the terminal which is what I expected. That is assuming there are no more delays.

planedrive

10th Oct 2017, 12:16

Plus the added works for the new MSCP and drop off which aren't included. It's all going to lead to another horrible summer for passengers and staff.

LTNman

10th Oct 2017, 14:10

They were going to put in a temporary drop off area for next summer but that plan must have been dropped otherwise there would be no short term car park for next year with work starting on MSCP2.

So for next summer the congestion looks like more of the same. In 2019 work should then start on the new station which will be a year late in starting once the drop off area has moved into the new multistory.

Then there is the cut and cover tunnel through the CTA. I guess there is nothing stopping that work starting next year as planned.

Looking back on old photos the arrivals waiting area closed on 2nd June 2015 so as far as I am concerned the existing terminal project already goes back 28 months.
https://i.imgur.com/HSOgmpL.jpg

gilesdavies

10th Oct 2017, 22:42

After nearly 50 years of making LTN its home, the final Monarch bird left for the last time today... :sad:

6hMFd070-5w

LTNman

11th Oct 2017, 04:52

What now for the former HQ? The building is T shaped so is bigger than it first looks with what looks like a flight simulator building attached at the bottom of the T.

Easyjet converted one of H89 aircraft bays for more office accommodation a few years back so I doubt that Monarch’s HQ is big enough for them.

Seeing that Flight Safety Boeing’s former European HQ was turned into a hotel this would be a much easier project if this building met the same feat.

LTNman

11th Oct 2017, 11:59

]After nearly 50 years of making LTN its home, the final Monarch bird left for the last time today... :sad:

Not quite, still one there today on or around stand 11

MKY661

11th Oct 2017, 13:02

G-MARA left at 12:07 UK time today

southside bobby

11th Oct 2017, 13:06

LTN CEO on Radio 4 early this morning stating Monarch`s pax thruput at LTN was 900,000 PA.

LTNman

11th Oct 2017, 14:39

It was 4.5% in 2016 which would make around 675,000 passengers. Whatever the figure it is still a big hit when added to the lost Copenhagen figure of 767,000. One route and one airline comes to around 1.6 million passengers lost. I think Luton will see a hit next year but my views on that are quite clear as Luton will still be over capacity for much of next year.

southside bobby

11th Oct 2017, 14:57

CEO stated 6% & 900K...

AvGeek1

11th Oct 2017, 16:04

1. Amsterdam - 571,934
2. Budapest - 442,298
3. Bucharest - 429,357
4. Barcelona - 389,882
5. Warsaw - 333,953
6. Tel Aviv - 313,471
7. Malaga - 278,453
8. Faro - 272,368
9. Dublin - 270,000
10. Palma de Mallorca - 253,451
11. Belfast - 251,183
12. Cluj-Napoca - 249,984
13. Katowice - 238,136
14. Copenhagen - 235,335
15. Geneva - 230,030
16. Edinburgh - 228,902
17. Gdansk - 224,177
18. Alicante - 219,120
19. Sofia - 216,967
20. Paris - 214,334

Source: LLA

LTNman

11th Oct 2017, 16:38

CEO stated 6% & 900K...

I just had another read, the 4.5% was the percentage of movements not passengers so I need to correct my figure to 1,667,000 passengers lost if Copenhagen is included although there is still a token service on the route which the above table does not reflect.

Going back to Monarch, I doubt it would have happened but it would have been nice for the last Monarch to leave Luton to have done a flypast across the apron to allow those that remain in whats left of Monarch to savor the moment and to shed a tear.:{

Still can't believe they have gone.

southside bobby

11th Oct 2017, 17:09

I understand the sentiment but unfortunately business & reality are harsh masters..
Flight deck crew almost certainly sub contracted by the lessor & have no wish to jeopardise their own position.
I think a CLX crew were dismissed or certainly disciplined for wing waving a B748F departing BFI on a delivery flight.
We will be left to pay our respects to the type that started it all namely the Britannia parked/exhibited at Duxford in full livery perhaps.
Blimey I remember it being delivered into there during an air show!.

wallp

11th Oct 2017, 18:52

Won't deny I shed a tear watching that - so many memories watching Monarch planes at LTN - 1'11's, 720's, 737's, 757's, A300's, A320's and A321's.

I still can't quite believe that Monarch no longer exist - a Luton Airport without Monarch just doesn't feel right :(

gilesdavies

12th Oct 2017, 01:56

Saying passenger numbers will be down in part due to easyJet/Ryanair stopping their crazy war of 4x daily services to Copenhagen, is rubbish!

If this was the case why was the airport still reporting record growth this summer, after both airlines had removed the crazy over capacity on the CPH route. The 4x daily service was operating last summer too and after its cancellation passenger numbers have continued to grow.

easyJet has already replaced this capacity by opening up new routes and increasing capacity on existing routes.

With the exception of the morning rotation to Copenhagen by Ryanair which was operated by a Kaunas based aircraft (KUN-LTN-CPH-LTN-KUN), all others were operated by Luton based Ryanair aircraft. It would appear Ryanair have found other routes to replace Copenhagen for these based aircraft, as I'm not seeing any parked up for a few hours each day.

Luton is probably going to be hit least hardest in terms of passenger numbers, with regards to Monarch, compared to the likes of BHX and MAN.
I think numbers will plateau next year, but any dip in numbers will be a blip and soon recover.
Provided the Thomas Cook routes go ahead and base an aircraft here next summer we've already absorbed the loss on one Monarch aircraft.

As a general rule Monarch birds flew roughly two return sectors a day or eight flights for the four based aircraft. The airport only needs to find another six return sectors a day to be back at a similar number.

With Wizz constantly upgrading routes to LTN from the A320 to the A321, the additional numbers here will plug some of the gap. Plus I'd expect some moderate growth from them and easyJet who seem to grow ops years on year.

If Blue Air or Vueling add any new routes too, I think numbers will be very similar.

I've noticed Vueling were operating three flights a day to Amsterdam on the odd day or two a week.

The biggest threat to Luton and passenger numbers is the delicate situation Spain is in right now. If Catalonia declare independence were probably looking at Yugoslavia type civil war and other regions breaking away from Spain too. If that happens flights to Spain will drop off a cliff edge!

Plane.Silly

12th Oct 2017, 06:40

As a general rule Monarch birds flew roughly two return sectors a day or eight flights for the four based aircraft. The airport only needs to find another six return sectors a day to be back at a similar number.

True, Despite these being on A321's, seating 214, their Loadfactors were around 85%(ish), meaning 100% on Easyjet/RYanair's 180-189 seaters. not an impossible task, and i'm sure SOMEONE will be snapping those slots up soon. Almost business as usual after this, but like everyone else, LTN doesn't feel the same without the 'yellow/purple variety'

22/04

12th Oct 2017, 08:18

No Ryanai parked up of course- but there is still almost the equivalent of a fifth unit considering that on some days we have visitors from Kaunus, Malta and Faro.

compton3bravo

12th Oct 2017, 09:23

Personally Giles I would not worry about a civil war in Spain, not mentioned here at all only some German MEP spouting off. The government in Madrid will not allow Catalonia to become an independent republic under any circumstances for many obvious reasons. Most people from Catalonia do not want independence and it is only the CUP party that is keeping the present government in power. Too much at stake as has been seen with major companies already moving their HQ to Madrid.Not being able to keep the Euro (going back to the paseta has been mentioned) and leaving the European Union would be calamitous - border controls etc - (even if you do not care for the EU)
As far as one can see there is no tension among the people - national holiday today - more interested in the quality of the upcoming wine and olive harvest and as for Brexit hardly mentioned in the Spanish media.
A levelling off of passengers at a number of airport's including Luton would not be a bad thing hopefully giving a slightly more pleasant travelling experience.

pabely

12th Oct 2017, 16:05

Good to see new work at Luton http://www.stattimes.com/icelandair-appoints-mael-for-air-cargo-aircraft-b757-c-checks

compton3bravo

12th Oct 2017, 19:41

Passenger figures for September are 1,484,775 up 6 per cent on September 2016. Rolling 12 month figure was 15,723,076 up 12.2 per cent.

LTNman

12th Oct 2017, 20:09

Quite remarkable for such a small footprint. Explains a great deal about customer perceptions of Luton.

Lee Baker Street

14th Oct 2017, 19:25

LTNman,

Whilst you and many others and that includes myself -are very saddened by Monarch's demise-the fact remains LTN will still continue to grow! I am adamant that LTN will not be going into decline in the near future.

Sixteen million passengers remains achievable by the year end on December 31st.

I think that we have 'almost' seen the end of any given month handling less than one million passengers.

What interests me is-Thomas Cook-and potentially other airlines taking over former Monarch routes.

I estimate that October, November and December will still achieve between 3 and 4 percent growth when compared to last year.

As long as Monarch Engineering has a presence at LTN, then Monarch will always be here!

LTNman

14th Oct 2017, 20:05

It would seem that I was too pessimistic about the loss of Monarch. Can’t go into sources of info but there will be no vacant slots with the loss of Monarch for next summer.

Don’t just think of Easyjet and Wizz and don’t dismiss one of Luton’s smaller carriers to take up some of the slack.:oh:

22/04

14th Oct 2017, 20:32

Blue Air?

Vueling?

TUI staying with 3 airframes?

planedrive

14th Oct 2017, 21:08

I too have heard these rumours LTNman. Such a shame as I thought we might actually get a year when the terminal was allowed a little breather before heaving through another summer. Good news for the customer if it comes to fruition though!

LTNman

14th Oct 2017, 22:17

This wasn’t a rumour but more of a fact that is not set in stone yet.

Boeing737-8

14th Oct 2017, 22:31

LTNman I have also heared some about this but I'm pretty sure it is a rumour otherwise it would of be announced.Regarding Thomas Cook, originally they wanted to base 2 planes but couldn't do so because of slots so decided to use both Monarchs and easyJet's flights. The flights which are being replace are mostly underserved or not served routes by Easyjet. Turkey is one location which seems to be growing and hopefully Sunexpress will add a few more flights and also show the Izmir flights.

Callum Paterson

15th Oct 2017, 13:29

With Wizz Air now a registered UK company and seemingly in the process of gaining a UK AOC, I wonder, would this give Wizz Air the right to fly between the UK and Moscow? And if so, could we see Wizz Air launch a LTN-Moscow route?

Currently Wizz Air serve two destinations from Moscow. Both in Hungary.

Thoughts?

getonittt

15th Oct 2017, 19:24

[QUOTE=gilesdavies;9925999]Blue Air by any chance?!

Their route map seems to have been updated over the weekend!

I can make out destinations as:

Portugal - Lisbon
Spain - Seville, Malaga and Palma
Italy - Alghero, Catania, Lameza, Bari, Naples, Rome (FCO), Florence, Bologna and Turin
Israel - Tel Aviv (That will make a change! :rolleyes:)
Sweden - Stockholm (ARN)
Finland - Helsinki
Then a load in Romania!

Just boarding a flight back to Luton now, so unable to check their cooking engine... QUOTE]

I think the cooking engine will route you through existing route hubs for some of these . If I'm wrong then BHX is getting a Helsinki flight .

Callum Paterson

15th Oct 2017, 19:40

These will be connections. Unless they are planning to launch a base at GLA with flights to just about every city in Italy and Romania plus Tel Aviv and Halsinki. And I think it's safe to assume they aren't.

Buster the Bear

16th Oct 2017, 16:59

All connections from what I can see and some only 1 per week unless they are going to base an airframe and announce something soon?

gilesdavies

16th Oct 2017, 21:31

Sorry I was a little enthusiastic with that Blue Air post, when I saw the map and thought these were all new routes, about to be opened up and didn't realise they were connections...

Hence why I have deleted that post.

Never knew Blue Air offered connections... They are a pretty unique Low Cost airline, offering all these connections and with their in-flight service which includes drinks and a meal/snack.

Buster the Bear

18th Oct 2017, 10:55

https://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/govia-thameslink-railway/pressreleases/thameslink-makes-it-even-easier-to-reach-london-luton-airport-by-train-2222311

LTNman

18th Oct 2017, 11:18

Mercedes Citaro buses are standard coaches and not the bendy buses that were cut back a few years ago.

pabely

18th Oct 2017, 11:30

The article does not mention which type of Mercedes Citaro bus, the picture only shows a bending bus which is one type they do under the Citaro range, they do two, three & articulated axle types. Logically they would be the same type as the ones currently in use though until such time that DART comes on-line.

LTNman

18th Oct 2017, 13:03

Yes it does

The 230 extra services each week will be achieved by increasing the fleet from five to seven, with two additional Mercedes Citaro buses.

Lee Baker Street

18th Oct 2017, 14:04

BBC report Wizzair to recruit a further 100 staff as it is going to expand at LTN during 2018.

pabely

18th Oct 2017, 15:45

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/wizz-air-opts-to-pursue-uk-aoc-442270/
So they will based with UK contracts? Will mean they will release some of their block bookings at budget hotels around the airport?

LTNman

18th Oct 2017, 17:10

Last summer Wizz had officially one aircraft based at Luton but in reality it was three. Will these existing three aircraft now be officially at Luton?

Lee Baker Street

19th Oct 2017, 07:52

Wizz are heading for growth!

Blue Air to increase services at Luton from April 2018!

It’s all growth...

robbie1973

19th Oct 2017, 07:56

Where did you get your information from regarding Blue Air ?

southside bobby

19th Oct 2017, 10:56

Where did you get your information from regarding Wizz?
If you are relating to the application for the UK AOC it probably has to be read carefully..
The application is to take over the Wizz Hungary base @ LTN,expand that unit with G-dash a/c with service & a/c transferred from routes already flown.
The intention being Brexit ready.

LGS6753

19th Oct 2017, 13:53

Summer 18 slots capacity declaration:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/LTN-S18-Capacity-Declaration.pdf

toledoashley

19th Oct 2017, 14:37

RE Wizz - This is an interesting article from Romania. Maybe the plan for the UK AOC is to fly to the US? INSIDER / Wizz Air vrea sa zboare din Londra in Statele Unite si Canada ? Aeronews (http://aeronews.ro/insider-wizz-air-vrea-sa-zboare-din-londra-in-statele-unite-si-canada/)

pabely

19th Oct 2017, 16:04

Summer 18 slots capacity declaration:

Is that Max r/w capacity +3 / hr then?

LGS6753

19th Oct 2017, 18:00

Pabely -

I was trying to link to the S17 figures for comparison, but somehow the weblink address is the same as S18.

In S17 runway capacity was 31 in each hour from 08 to 21 inclusive. Max movements was 114 in any 4 hour period.

It looks as though runway capacity is being increased due to the western taxiway link opening.

LGS6753

19th Oct 2017, 18:02

A further notification from ACL is on runway closure:

This Notice is issued to inform all stakeholders of the planned annual closure of the Airfield for
essential maintenance and the new taxiway Bravo tie in works to the Runway.
Notification
The Airfield will be closed for 27 nights during November 2017; the closures will be as follows:
The Runway will be closed each night between 00:01-05:30 starting from Monday 6th
November through to and including Saturday 2
nd December.
ATC Services
There will be no ATC service available between 00:01 – 05:00.
The Airfield will be closed to all aircraft movements and any towing; engine runs etc, will need
to be undertaken outside of these hours

LTNman

19th Oct 2017, 18:07

Summer 2016 the limit was 114 movements in any 4 hour period.

I haven't got the figure for this summer but for winter 2017 for some reason that had dropped to 112 movements per any 4 hour period.

Next summer the rate has increased to 124 movements per any 4 hour period.

Maximum hourly rate

S2016 34
W2017 34
S2018 37

That figure should increase again when the taxiway is extended at the 26 end.

Summer 2016 there were 37 stands including 3 in reserve.
Summer 2018 looks like 41 stands are available but 2 are kept in reserve.

LTNman

19th Oct 2017, 18:12

http://aeronews.ro/insider-wizz-air-vrea-sa-zboare-din-londra-in-statele-unite-si-canada/

Translation

According to sources, Wizz Air wants to start transatlantic flights from London Luton Airport to New York and Toronto in March 2018.
Flights to the eastern coast of the United States would be operated with the A321ceo (Current Engine Option), a model that has an autonomy of 5950 km. Wizz Air has 22 in the fleet and has to receive 19 more by 2019, and in June it ordered 10, and they will enter the fleet in 2018 and 2019. Moreover, Jizsef Varadi, Wizz Air CEO, said that he wants to obtain a British Operator Certificate (AOC), which would allow the low-cost operator to start direct flights from London to the US, but also cancel out the effects of Brexit. If the flight information to the US confirms, Wizz Air will join Norwegian, WestJet, Aer Lingus, Icelandair, Air Canada and WOW Air operating transatlantic monocular aircraft. via pasazer.com

What Wizz Air says: "We do not comment on rumors and speculation in the press.

LTNman

20th Oct 2017, 04:15

I am surprised no one has commented on the possibility of Wizz opening services to America and Canada from Luton. I would have thought it was the biggest good news story to come out of Luton this year.:confused:

pabely

20th Oct 2017, 07:16

Non stop they would need the 321NEO, when are they due?

Falcon666

20th Oct 2017, 08:22

A321 NEO due in 2019
Although the stated range of the A321CEO is 5950 Kim's , the distance from London to New York is 5571kms and Toronto 5713kms ( quick check on the web)
The NEO version has a range of 6850kms.

Wizz obviously think it's fine according to that release with a CEO version

pabely

20th Oct 2017, 10:39

With a normal Wizzair high density configuration........or would we see muti-class configuration like Primera will be running? If Jet Blue arrive from US as well, they were supposed to had talks already, then it will be a busy market segment!

canberra97

20th Oct 2017, 16:10

Don't look into JetBlue too much just because they are supposed have already held talks with LTN management as an airline they would probably be in contact with many airports but it doesn't conclude to them ever flying from those airports. In my opinion if or when JetBlue do announce transatlantic flights it will be from STN rather than LTN.

LTNman

20th Oct 2017, 16:17

Another 6 months and some of Luton's major infrastructure projects should be completed. Even though there will still be work taking place in the terminal I would hope that passengers perceptions will start to improve just a tad.

daz211

20th Oct 2017, 16:30

If Wizz do start transatlantic flights from Luton I think they will do better than Primera at Stansted this is not due to lack of demand but Wizz is a well know airline at Luton and primera isn’t In fact its not well known in the UK
Even though it’s great news for Stansted I fear if it fails people will think Stansted can’t attract and support transatlantic flights I wish it were a more well known airline
But if true I wish Wizz and Luton all the best.

southside bobby

20th Oct 2017, 16:40

JBU...& maybe neither..CEO of Norwegian stated during the week that they may seek to co-operate with JBU on transatlantic services a la EasyJet.

southside bobby

20th Oct 2017, 17:02

daz211...Not accounting for economic geography.
Primera staged a large event to coincide with their transatlantic launch plans in Cambridge clearly stating the "Cambridge Corridor" is very important in their planning.
Not to mention North & East London of course.
I might also query an overall public perception of Wizz..Yes well known @ LTN for multiple flights to "Eastern Europe" but not really perhaps a huge advantage over a new entrant into a "new" created market.
If WIZZ comes to fruition they clearly regard the Primera concept as a valid business model to emulate.

LTNman

22nd Oct 2017, 05:31

I might also query an overall public perception of Wizz..Yes well known @ LTN for multiple flights to "Eastern Europe" but not really perhaps a huge advantage over a new entrant into a "new" created market.

If I want a flight to Toronto to visit family like most people these days I would do an internet search. If a low price was the main focus I would not give a monkeys about the name of the airline or even if I had heard of them.

I have a friend who has just booked a flight on Norwegian and wanted to know who they were so for many people the price and the departure point is the only consideration.

Buster the Bear

23rd Oct 2017, 12:24

The plan is to feed in customers from E Europe where connections to the eastern N America are sparse and expensive. Looking at the proposed development plans, could a starter extension to both ends be added as part of the parallel works?

whitelighter

23rd Oct 2017, 15:12

If I want a flight to Toronto to visit family like most people these days I would do an internet search. If a low price was the main focus I would not give a monkeys about the name of the airline or even if I had heard of them.

I have a friend who has just booked a flight on Norwegian and wanted to know who they were so for many people the price and the departure point is the only consideration.

I quite agree, though is the same not true for Primera out of STN?
I think the point about wizz being well known is somewhat made irrelevant by your (totally correct and very accurate) post above

SWBKCB

23rd Oct 2017, 17:17

If Buster is right (and transfers can be made to work), Wizz would start with a huge advantage over Primera.

Assuming, of course, the 321 (CEO or NEO) can do LTN - East Coast USA

davidjohnson6

23rd Oct 2017, 18:21

I wonder how Lufthansa Group (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss) would react to some of their business between North America and Central/East Europe migrating away...

LTNman

23rd Oct 2017, 20:11

Looking at the proposed development plans, could a starter extension to both ends be added as part of the parallel works?

There was a plan to do just that with the new parallel taxiways joining the runway from the ends rather than the side near the end but there was money to be saved by shortening the taxiways so the plan was dropped.

Lee Baker Street

24th Oct 2017, 20:33

The prospect of a full length taxiway ever reaching the end of 08 (in the future) has now probably been made impossible, due to the fact the current digging in that area—appears to be excessive.

It is interesting to note that Norwegian has pulled out of the Spanish market to and from BHX.

gilesdavies

24th Oct 2017, 20:53

Just to pour some water of the fire, of Wizz starting ops from Luton to the USA anytime soon, a few things need to be considered...

Wizz Air are not due to receive the A321neo's until 2019-2024, and seeing the huge demand for the A320neo family aircraft type, I doubt Wizz Air will be able to jump the delivery waiting list.

That then moves us on to their exisiting A321ceo's... The Airbus website states the maximum range of this aircraft type is 3200 miles with a "Typical Seating" of 185 seats, Great Circle Maps states the distance from Luton to New York JFK is 3447 miles.

When you factor in Wizz Air operate their A321's in some of the highest seating configuration on the market, this is going to limit the range further. Also the distance of 3447 miles distance, does not factor in the jet stream, which aircraft fly against when flying west bound and need further range to account for this.

There is a reason why we are not seeing the existing A321ceo's operated by other airlines, currently flying transatlantic. Take for example Aer Lingus currently operate the A321ceo and these are only operated in Europe. The airline chose to lease Boeing 757's from ASL to open some new markets from Dublin, to Hartford, Philadelphia, Newark and Toronto for example, as the existing A321's are not up to the job, they have however ordered A321LRneo's to replace the leased 757's in 2019.

Hopefully Wizz Air will prove me wrong and can operate the routes, but on paper it does not seem to be possible.

Just one final point, Wizz Air have ordered the A321neo which has the range to reach the north east of the USA, but if the airline is serious about flying to the USA, they should be considering the A320LR neo. Which has an even longer range and specifically marketed by Airbus as an aircraft for the transatlantic market and to replace the 757s that currently fly these longer thinner routes.

Lee Baker Street

25th Oct 2017, 01:38

It seems that Southend are now pushing connections to various USA destinations via Dublin.

pabely

25th Oct 2017, 10:06

So the big question would be whether Wizzair change any 321neo orders to 321LRneo, if this does occur then we will know that they are serious about this from 2019, how late they can make amendments to existing Airbus orders I don't know but would have thought that discussions might already being made.

whitelighter

25th Oct 2017, 18:40

canberra97

25th Oct 2017, 19:29

What do you mean by 'narrow body TA trees'?

There is no A322 on offer let alone a A322LR so how would airlines be willing to try it!

whitelighter

26th Oct 2017, 17:46

I phone auto correct - should have been TA triers.
Thought Airbus had announced the A322\LRneo - looked and had very similar spec to a 757.

Maybe they changed their minds.

canberra97

27th Oct 2017, 06:34

Airbus didn't change their mind.

There is no A322 it's not currently happening and it's an idea that's been banded about on forums such as this but no commitment from Airbus who are concentrating on the A320/321 NEO.

canberra97

27th Oct 2017, 06:39

Wonder if any of the narrow body TA trees might be willing to try the A322LR?
As far as I am aware airbus dobt hadecorders for that aircraft - surely more seats with similar performance makes it more viable?

Can you explain 'As far as I am aware airbus dobt hadecorders for that aircraft'?

It's something you might be 'aware of' but to be honest it's confused me!

LTNman

27th Oct 2017, 07:22

Seems that the airport has been having a deep look INSIDE the CTA for the placement of a second terminal. The location under consideration is on the south side of the CTA. The only place available would be next to the second multistorey on the site that is earmarked for the car hire centre. A terminal here could serve the south stands via a pier but any other apron would have to be on the other side of Delta and the new Taxiway Foxtrot so would need some sort of link.

If true and this source should know, it seems a strange location as the CTA can’t cope with a single terminal let alone a second one but the new drop off zone that is going in next year and the station would be fine for both terminals.

I have another location which seems far more realistic away from the CTA but I can’t go into that plan just yet for confidentiality reasons but that plan is older than the CTA plan so might be out of date and the CTA location might be the replacement location

pabely

27th Oct 2017, 09:21

As that South CTA area has had 08 Localizer issues in the past, I wonder if that site is wise!

ClearLand08

28th Oct 2017, 10:52

I've said this before, but the construction of taxiway foxtrot provides a unique opportunity to allow access to the part of the field to the east of where foxtrot will be. When they construct foxtrot they should do it with a cut and cover tunnel. Once foxtrot is complete, they can then build a joining cut and cover tunnel under taxiway delta without major disruption to aircraft movements. This would create underpass access from the CTA to the eastern part of the field. This access could be used for airside passengers, an extension of the DART, airside road or landside road or combination of the above.

wallp

28th Oct 2017, 12:46

I’ve avoided using LTN with all the development works going on but am currently considering booking flights to Sicily. The flight leaves LTN at 07.45 on a weekday morning. I imagine that’s at the heart of the Wizz rush so can’t imagine a pleasant experience?

gilesdavies

29th Oct 2017, 00:34

Deleted Post, regarding the number of flights with change to Winter timetable.

Flight Radar 24 on my phone app was only showing two flights departing between 6am and 7am, when this clearly wasn't the case!

Captain_Caveman

29th Oct 2017, 01:50

I count 28 departures between 06:00 and 08:00 today - Sunday morning with another with another 18 flights in the next hour up to 09:00 - taken from LLA website

compton3bravo

29th Oct 2017, 05:19

Giles, I think you will find most airports go quieter over the winter months, routes to destinations like Ibiza, Mahon almost cease for six months, even down here, flights from/to Malaga drop off quite considerably. I note Vueling has three Amsterdam flights today (Sunday).

LTNman

29th Oct 2017, 06:04

Just done a traffic congestion check. In July the traffic was queuing all the way from the railway bridge on the A1081. Today at the same time there are no queues anywhere.

InsideLTN

29th Oct 2017, 20:18

The third Vueling Amsterdam flight was a re-scheduled service. Saturday's (28th) evening arrival (VY8406) returned mid-journey to Amsterdam, due to an issue. All 126 passengers were accommodated for the night and travelled today (Sunday).

Lee Baker Street

29th Oct 2017, 21:44

I see SunExpress have increased destinations from Luton commencing June 2018.

Boeing737-8

29th Oct 2017, 22:16

A lot of expansion in Turkey next year. Thomas cook have based most of the schedule in Turkey and Thomson/TUI have brought back the Dalaman flight. Luton have seem to caught a growing trend this year. Not sure about Ankara or Gaziantep but an unserved market so may well pay off. Also looks as if there is more flights to be added with the Izmir flight coming in the morning and not going back to after midnight.

LTNman

29th Oct 2017, 22:47

Did hear a while back that TUI are going to base another aircraft at Ltn for next summer due to the loss of Monarch. Don’t know how much truth there is in that statement which is why I haven’t bothered to mention it before.

robbie1973

29th Oct 2017, 23:38

I see SunExpress have increased destinations from Luton commencing June 2018.

Antalya commences 15/06/18 with flights on Monday and Friday -

XQ530 08:00 AYT - 10:40 LTN /
XQ531 11:30 LTN - 17:45 AYT

Ankara commences 17/06/18 with flights on Sunday and Tuesday -

XQ741 14:05 LTN - 20:15 ESB /
XQ740 21:05 ESB - 23:25 LTN

Gaziantep commences 20/06/18 on Wednesday -

XQ742 14:25 GZT - 17:25 LTN /
XQ743 18:25 LTN - 01:05 GZT

Izmir flights commence 17/06/18 on Sunday and Tuesday (from Izmir) and 18/06/18 on Monday and Wednesday (from Luton) -

XQ884 11:10 ADB - 13:15 LTN /
XQ885 00:25 LTN - 06:15 ADB

Hopefully this will be a success for Sun Express with more routes to come !

PAXboy

30th Oct 2017, 00:45

Sorry to be late on the December start of Powdair (operated by BackBone, I think) what equipment are they using on the Sion (SIR) route. Thanks.

davidjohnson6

30th Oct 2017, 02:38

Gaziantep commences 20/06/18 on Wednesday -
XQ742 14:25 GZT - 17:25 LTN /
XQ743 18:25 LTN - 01:05 GZTForgive me if I'm being unduly pessimistic, but looking at a map Gaziantep airport appears to be about 30 mins drive from the Turkish-Syrian border. Furthermore, the Foreign Office has Gaziantep province very clearly marked as 'Advise against all but essential travel' - thus ruling it out completely for any kind of package tourist.

Who exactly is going to be on this flight ? The flight times seem very much off-peak, and the lack of a LTN-Adana route (Adana as a city has a great population than Gaziantep, is by the coast, has far more air passengers than Gaziantep and doesn't have a FCO warning) means the only people I can think of are those travelling to/from Syria or Syrian refugees. Is this some kind of "Aleppo in northern Syria is closed, and Gaziantep is the nearest alternate airport" ?

robbie1973

30th Oct 2017, 06:26

I also had to look at a map to ascertain Gaziantep’s location and the same thoughts crossed my mind when I realised how close it was to Syria.

compton3bravo

30th Oct 2017, 07:13

Thank you regarding the "third" Amsterdam on Sunday morning. Am I correct in thinking that the only other 'loco' flying to Turkey's capital Ankara is Pegasus from Stansted. I can see a market there for the many Turks and of Turkish origin in the London area. Regarding Tui they are scheduled to remove one aircraft from Luton for next summer, maybe having second thoughts?

cj241101

30th Oct 2017, 15:47

Sorry to be late on the December start of Powdair (operated by BackBone, I think) what equipment are they using on the Sion (SIR) route. Thanks.
According to their timetable (https://www.powdair.ski/destinations/timetable.html) 5 flights per week from 11 Dec ( Mo We Fr Sa Su) Luton-Sion, equipment not specified, rumoured to be EMB-170 or-190.

AirportPlanner1

30th Oct 2017, 16:19

This was formally a Kibris route from STN until their demise. Since that time there have been weekly charters around the time of the school summer holidays, though I'm not sure they operated this summer.

Gaziantep has a substantial population of its own, also as noted Adana isn't too far and there is no route there from the UK (also a former Kibris route to STN). It is a bit of a niche route but there is probably just enough demand, though I'd have thought the security services will be taking a very close look at the passenger lists.

daz211

30th Oct 2017, 16:45

Arr good old Kibris I had a lot of dealings with them at STN
Passengers turning up at check in with car parts and house hold appliances trying to bribe the check in staff with sweets and gifts even money to waver the masses of excess baggage most passengers checked in with them red or blue massive laundry bags bursting at the seams grandma hiding round the corner with with about 30kg of hand baggage

Sorry just reminiscing- back to thread

southside bobby

30th Oct 2017, 17:01

.......bags & bags & bags of Cadbury`s chocolate once airside......

Buster the Bear

31st Oct 2017, 10:36

Ryanair have stated that they will 'take up the slack' created by the collapse of Monarch by basing additional airframes around the country, so could we see a 5th at Luton?

Lee Baker Street

31st Oct 2017, 11:02

Air Berlin at LTN this morning. Management finalising a deal with Easyjet perhaps? Maybe Easyjet gaining additional fleet?

toledoashley

31st Oct 2017, 11:30

Buster - I would have thought it would be more likely served by non-UK bases, especially thinking of Tenerife, Porto, Faro... etc.

Blakedean

31st Oct 2017, 12:15

The Air Berlin was one operated by TUI & it ended up in a TUI hangar so make your own mind up.

pabely

31st Oct 2017, 13:52

Wasn't that a 737? I think it went to MAEL anyhow for work.

Lee Baker Street

31st Oct 2017, 13:59

Yes was a 737. I never realised MAEL, carried out their maintenance.

LGS6753

31st Oct 2017, 14:29

ACL have published "start of season" data for W17:

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/LTN-W17-Start-of-Season.pdf

Headlines:

Monarch flights still included.
Blue Air +15% (over W16)
Backbone listed as 140 ATMs (for Powdair to Sion)
EasyJet +6%
DHL -20%
Ryanair -21%
Titan Airways listed with 30 ATMs - a weekly ski season Chambery charter.
Transavia France returning on Orly 2x pw from Feb.
Wizzair +17%

Overall ATMs +4.5%, passenger capacity +7.5%.
Adjusting for Monarch: ATMs +0.9%, pax +3.4%

A320ECAM

31st Oct 2017, 14:30

How is the construction going on at London Luton?

Have they still not finished it yet?

pabely

31st Oct 2017, 15:34

Which project part? Perhaps LTNman might give a photo update?

Lee Baker Street

31st Oct 2017, 15:46

3 to 4% growth, BlueAir increasing services. Seems my Chrystal ball is spot on!

LTNman

31st Oct 2017, 15:58

I took in a camera yesterday but to be honest not much has changed in the last few weeks since the last update so I didn't bother taking any photos.

The gaps in the cladding of the new terminal frontage have been filled in apart from a small half metre gap at floor level.

The brick balcony of the old terminal has had framework erected that will eventually hide it. Below the balcony it is open with no framework.

When facing the terminal from the bus station the right hand entrance recess is in yellow while the left hand arrivals recess is in grey. Windows have been fitted to both the arrivals and departures entrances.

Pier B now has all its windows in place but the external doors have still to be fitted.

The bus station now has traffic lights. When a bus or coach wants to leave a bay the driver presses a button that puts the bus in a queue. The bay gets a green light when it is its turn to leave. It might be safer but it take longer to get in and out.

Behind the hoardings the terminal external walls have been removed to link it to the new build but it is only visible when a workman passes through a hording door.

Still no sign of a canopy being fitted.

At the back of the terminal the framework to expand the immigration hall was meant to have started last week but as of yesterday it had not began. The framework will be put up between 2am and 5am on weekdays when immigration is empty as the building is gaining a floor that is no immigration related.

AvGeek1

31st Oct 2017, 16:06

Didn’t realise that easyJet’s Luton-Hamburg route ends 24th March 2018

Buster the Bear

31st Oct 2017, 16:58

Summer 2017 & 18 for comparison.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2m5xc08.jpg
http://i63.tinypic.com/xmr4es.jpg

pabely

31st Oct 2017, 17:05

Didn’t realise that easyJet’s Luton-Hamburg route ends 24th March 2018

We will see if this base does close as Air Berlin were No. 2 (EZY No.4) or will it all be left to Lufty & German Wings and they consolidate in Berlin.

inOban

31st Oct 2017, 17:43

They could always operate the route from LTN rather than Hamburg. The EDI route has always worked that way.

compton3bravo

31st Oct 2017, 17:58

Two interesting points there: Transavia returning albeit only two weekly and DHL having to use Stansted and/or East Midlands because of the runway closures during November and December.w

Falcon666

31st Oct 2017, 18:37

The Hamburg route is operated by a LTN based a/c.
Am a regular user so sad to see it go!!

LTNman

31st Oct 2017, 21:15

I have always wondered how many scheduled cargo flights Luton would handle of it had more than two cargo stands?

cj241101

31st Oct 2017, 22:57

Luton handled more cargo flights when it had no cargo apron or cargo centre. Remember the TNT 146's, Air Bridge/Hunting Merchantmen/Electras in the late 80's/early 90's? Not to mention Aer Turas DC-8's on horse flights and a host of smaller aircraft (SD330's/360's, Bandeirantes, Beech 99's, Trislanders) operating small parcels and mail flights nightly. The cargo apron originally had 5 stands - so do executive jets which often sit around for days at a time make the airport more money than cargo aircraft?

22/04

2nd Nov 2017, 09:54

As someone who keeps an eye on the airport in the evening when cooking dinner, the winter feels like the bleakest for sometime. Last night I think the last scheduled arrival was 23.10; particularly absent are the late night Canaries, Cyprus etc that Monarch used to have. A glance at the boards might suggest that Wizz are the biggest operator although I guess they haven't topped EasyJet yet. I notice Jersey was still operating earlier this week? Is this now year round? Ryanair are definitely less busy than for several years. Of course the night closures might be partly responsible.

Why is taxiway alpha partially closed at night?

Buster the Bear

2nd Nov 2017, 10:03

Any idea why there is 3 months of construction works in the area of the Long term and Harrods ramp?

compton3bravo

2nd Nov 2017, 11:16

The next six weeks are usually the quietist time of the year until the ski flights and a few Santa charters start around the middle of December.

LTNman

2nd Nov 2017, 11:34

The work in the long term car park is located behind one of the Harrods Hangars but hasn't started yet. A sign says don't park here while another one says the work will end at the end of February.

Maybe the airport want to dig various test pits as the car park sits on the former council tip. When the airport carries test drillings on Wigmore Park every dog walker for miles spots what is going on. It was not helped by decontamination showers being installed the last time holes were dug on the park.

LTNman

2nd Nov 2017, 14:05

Well its a new sign that was dug in so I will add it. As can be seen any driver heading for the terminal needs to keep calm.
https://i.imgur.com/MwWpRfQ.jpg

The immigration hall is being expanded on the ground floor while the building picks up a new first floor.
https://i.imgur.com/NxPCyyH.jpg

The old terminal balcony is being hidden from public view.
https://i.imgur.com/klfyrqz.jpg

Still not a hint of a canopy being installed.
https://i.imgur.com/ZgIqJdJ.jpg

I have no idea what is happening here. It looks like a concrete base for a trolley park but trolleys are paid for at Luton plus the whole area is isolated from public access. Maybe the airport is squeezing in a few extra parking bays for when the short term car park loses half its spaces. This is also the route for the rail link cut and cover tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/VFuaFS1.jpg

Pier B is progressing well
https://i.imgur.com/kT0jySE.jpg

Finally just one ramp of many at Luton that is heaving with bizjets. The pond has passed back to the airport but you would never know it.
https://i.imgur.com/hmzDRa6.jpg

boeing_eng

2nd Nov 2017, 17:49

Half the Pond goes back to the airport for overnight parking (usually 2 x EZY's) Signature use it for the rest of the day:D

Lee Baker Street

3rd Nov 2017, 19:29

After the very sad and unfortunate demise of Monarch Airlines, EasyJet stated on October 2nd 2017 they were seeking to fill 100 cabin crew roles at Luton and 500 at LGW.

Based on typical crewing levels per flight (180 pax=4 cabin attendants) are they currently short of crew or are they looking to expand in the new year?

Is there a potential 5 aircraft to join the current fleet of 23/24 at Luton in 2018 based on the 'industry' standard of 5 'sets' of crew per one aircraft?

That figure may seem generous, but they did state a few years ago about doubling their presence at LTN which meant having a planned fleet of at least 30 based A/C.

Only time will tell...

inOban

3rd Nov 2017, 19:56

Presumably they have to fill quite a few roles each year simply due to natural turnover, never mind expansion?

southside bobby

3rd Nov 2017, 20:23

The pitch will be aimed at ex MON c/c to replenish EZY`s own natural wastage as well.

Musket90

4th Nov 2017, 19:36

I think the car drop off charge is probably the one that irritates most. The other charges seem comparable with Heathrow and Gatwick.
I can understand the reason for charging for drop off given the congestion that could occur if it wasn't implemented. Trouble is many don't realise there is a charge until beyond the traffic lights which causes delays at the exit point and unless they've researched before travelling then they won't know.
I can't imagine many non-regulars actually seeing this sign because of concentrating on the unfamiliar road ahead, especially if there are several other signs nearby that contribute to sign blindness.

LTNman

4th Nov 2017, 20:06

Remarkably the £3 minimum charge for Luton is actually cheaper than Stansted.

Musket90

4th Nov 2017, 21:58

Thanks LTNman - It certainly is and it's not easy to find the details on the STN website.
For LTN once the new transit is operational from the railway station to the terminal it will be a premier London Airport for access from London, so no wonder why airlines are keen to start or expand their existing operations.

LTNman

5th Nov 2017, 05:33

canberra97

5th Nov 2017, 06:18

Those coal wagons (I like the description) will probably be emblazoned with tacky advertising such as HSBC so that the airport can gain extra revenue from it's investment, I can't see them in just a plain livery with just LLA added.

southside bobby

5th Nov 2017, 07:02

Musket90...
Could you please reference which "airlines are keen to start...operations".Ta.

Lee Baker Street

5th Nov 2017, 08:10

The rail link will make a big diffence for that final mile. With Luton always looking to save the last penny I just hope that what is proposed is what we end up with. I have this vision of early railways where passengers wearing top hats travelled in converted open coal wagons. The only difference is that the Luton coal wagons will have LLA written on the side.

£35 million will cover construction, £115 million will cover civil work, that leaves up to £50 million to purchase actual rail stock. I can see no reason that the airport / LBC will not be operating state of the art trains.

Does anyone know what stock the council / airport are currently looking at? If you consider it, there is no point carrying out all this ground work when you don’t know what will be actually using the track!

canberra97

5th Nov 2017, 08:27

It was a humorous remark made by LTNman that I was referring to I wasn't inferring that the trains would be inferior, of course they will be modern state of the art trains but I still wouldn't be surprised to see them emblazoned with advertising. Regardless of how the planned shuttle is financed it would still be a financial gain by having some form of advertising even with a LLA logo.

Not that I am a fan of over advertising I do see the financial gains.

DC3 Dave

5th Nov 2017, 08:38

Unless there will be only one train, a signalling system will be required, and that cannot be specified without knowing the stock to be used.

I would imagine the cars will be similar to London Underground's new District / Metropolitan trains with very basic interiors, lots of standing room and 3 double doors per car. Those trains cost around £8.5 million each, but Luton's order will be a tad smaller.

pabely

5th Nov 2017, 11:20

Unless there will be only one train, a signalling system will be required, and that cannot be specified without knowing the stock to be used.

All plans show two tracks all the way just like LGW and talk about state of the art technology. I can only see a single track used at quiet times overnight when maintenance takes place.
As far as advertising, we have had EZY sponsoring the LGW shuttle for years, now replaced by BA, perhaps they will be back at LTN being painted Orange!

LTNman

5th Nov 2017, 12:19

Yes two trains on two tracks with no crossovers and no spare rolling stock in reserve. I don't know if this is standard with the likes of Birmingham and Gatwick.

I also don't know how many carriages each train will have either. When I asked at the public event I was told it hadn't been decided but I am guessing 2 or 3.

I hope they take the long term view and build the stations with enough platform to take an increase in passenger numbers if more carriages are needed later.

Enabling work.

New compound for airport equipment is almost complete. This is needed to clear the route for the rail link.

Note the airport camera van that sits at this location to catch any cars stopping at the bus stop.

https://i.imgur.com/e7zPI1W.jpg

New airside fence to allow the rail route to remain landside
https://i.imgur.com/o20BhLb.jpg

gilesdavies

5th Nov 2017, 21:07

I remember the LGW North to South Terminal Transit a good few years ago was sponsored by British Airways... They use to force you to listen to some commentory welcoming you to the BA transit link and then played some hideous operatic music.

I think it would be foolish if they didn't get some sort of sponsorship or advertising for the service, after the large investment. Maybe it could be sponsored by Wizzair and the train can WIZZZZ you up to the terminal, or sponsored by easyJet and called the easyTrain! :}

I've not really read much on the new proposed service, but I can imagine something similar to that of the transit that runs at Stansted Airport... Where the actual cars are on tyred wheels running of a guided concrete track and not a train as we know it, running on steel rails, which is a lot more expensive.

I am curious what the charging structure will be for the transit and who will operate and maintain the service? The service might be free from the Mid-Stay Car Park to the Terminal, but I highly doubt it will be from the railway station, and the airport/council will want to recoup the costs invested...

At present the bus link between Luton Airport Parkway and the Airport is operated by Govia Thameslink and is considered part of the UK rail network, as you can buy a train ticket directly from any UK station to the airport and the ticket includes the bus part of the journey. Will it remain part of the "national rail" network and use the same ticketing structure or will it be completely seperate, with seperate ticketing and machines to board the service?

I suspect the council will not want to run it directly itself and will do a similar deal to the airport and offer a 10-20 year revenue sharing lease of the transport system, to run and maintain it.

I can imagine it being something similar to that in New York at JFK Airport... Where you travel on the NYC Subway system from Manhatten to Howard Beach station using the subway's normal ticketing. Then in-order to use the JFK AirTrain at Howard Beach, you go upstairs and purchase a $5 ticket using a different ticketing system, to board this automated train to the approriate terminal. This causes a lot of confusion and many passengers expect their Subway passes to be accepted on the airport link.

If the new transit is future proofed and has sufficient capacity/frequencies, I could see the airport moving the entire drop off area completely away from the Central Terminal Area, and to a new location (AKA Mid Stay), where all passengers have to use the service to get to the terminal and something similar for car hire.

Maybe offering a smaller "premium" drop off area by the terminal where the charge is maybe £10-20, as the fee would have to be hefty to persaude people not going up to the terminal. As the currrent £3 fee, does not seem enough to make people to use the free bus link from the Mid-Stay car park.

davidjohnson6

5th Nov 2017, 21:40

Will the cheapskates like me still be able to walk between the Kimpton Road entrance to Parkway train station and the airport without having to pay ?

ExpectmorePayless

5th Nov 2017, 22:03

I can see it now.
easyTrain from Luton Airport Parkway to Luton Airport = £59.99 return.
EasyJet from Luton Airport to Tenerife = £29.99 return.

They'll probably charge extra for passengers with baggage too. :rolleyes:

LTNman

5th Nov 2017, 22:17

I think the trains will be on tyres on a concrete track. There will be provision for a station in the mid term but it won’t be built as part of this phase.

For the system to work seamlessly then it has to be ticket free otherwise it will lose much of its benefit. This can be achieved now if a passenger buys a ticket to Luton Airport rather than Luton Airport Parkway but passengers with through tickets still wait their turn to have their ticket checked before boarding.

If some sort of standard combined fare is introduced then anyone starting their journey from Parkway will be paying for a link that they will not use.

This rail link is being funded by the council rather than by London Luton Airport Operations Ltd or London Luton Airport Ltd. The general airport upgrade to 18 million passengers is being funded by Aena. Not sure why the council would be paying for this link rather than their 100% owned airport company who seem to be paying for Century Park.

gilesdavies

5th Nov 2017, 23:42

Hi LTNman

Just done a bit of rummaging about and it appears it is the LLAOL (the airport), submitting the application for the transit link to the airport and not the council.

The council are providing the funding as a loan.

It also states in the planning application that it is a "2.2km twin guideways mass passenger transit (MPT) system", so I think people including myself referring to it as a train service are mistaken.

It also states in other documents Ive read, the building contractors would be announced in October, but that doesn't seem to have happened yet.

I am imagining the system with be something similar to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Innovia_APM

LTNman

6th Nov 2017, 06:47

The platforms at Parkway will be around 38m long excluding buffers and other non tracked sections which is twice as long as the 18m Volvo bendy buses.

Looking at the timescales work proper starts May next year with work on the central station starting next June but that can't be started now until the new multistory is finished and opened so I would say that part of the project will be delayed by a year. The station has a 59 week build and when complete work is meant to then start on the systems and equipment so the whole project could already be a year behind schedule.