Luton-9

[PAXboy]

[Thread drift] The PM is only 'anti' anything that steps in the way of his birthright. He is 'pro' anything for himself.

[pabely]

How dare Luton take a Diversion today, just to bust pax numbers, no doubt!

[CAP A330]

Knowing a decent amount of people working out of Luton airport as pilots, engineers and Refuellers, a large percentage do not live in Luton. The most extreme example was one capt living in the west of England. He wasn’t flying full time but a lot of well paid jobs don’t go to lutonians.

[pabely]

Knowing a decent amount of people working out of Luton airport as pilots, engineers and Refuellers, a large percentage do not live in Luton. The most extreme example was one capt living in the west of England. He wasn’t flying full time but a lot of well paid jobs don’t go to lutonians.
Been like that for years, know a few who started off in Luton with Monarch & Britannia , once on ladder move to Harpenden, Ampthill or Woburn.
Luton Town will benefit from 3rd party businesses supplying the airport.

[Level bust]

There was a time when probably over 50% of the ATC staff came from Luton or the surrounding areas, but alas no more.

[pabely]

There was a time when probably over 50% of the ATC staff came from Luton or the surrounding areas, but alas no more.
Not those chaps/chapesses shown in the Luton Nostalgic thread of 16th Nov.......?

[pabely]

Wizzair using a SmartLynx from Riga today, demand that high or are delivery of new shiny new airbuses affecting them like Easyjet are experiencing?

[flyerguy]

Wizzair using a SmartLynx from Riga today, demand that high or are delivery of new shiny new airbuses affecting them like Easyjet are experiencing?

Looks as if the early morning RIX-LTN was HA-LWT (WizzAir) but returned to RIX shortly after take off so maybe a technical substitution

[Buster the Bear]

All the Stop LAE stuff feels like it's been written by a child. There's lots more data and facts out there that could be used to constructively criticise the expansion of the airport. Unfortunately it misses the mark every single time and just reads like an unbalanced Daily Mail piece, if that Daily Mail piece was being written as some kind of teenage tabloid competition. So easy to dismiss that it undermined peoples genuine concerns which is a great shame.

Written by locals who are facing a new terminal and all the health hazards that will bring, being built literally on their doorstep. Judging by what I have been told, garnering considerable support locally and politically for the work they are doing in highlighting the huge financial gamble allegedly being taking by a borough council.

[boeing_eng]

Written by locals who are facing a new terminal and all the health hazards that will bring, being built literally on their doorstep. Judging by what I have been told, garnering considerable support locally and politically for the work they are doing in highlighting the huge financial gamble allegedly being taking by a borough council.

A good summary there.....I am pro-airport in many ways but this current Council needs to be held to account. Those who simply support expansion at any cost need to realise that if this was any other major UK airport the situation would be far more balanced and local residents would at least have a local Council who might actually listen!

[PAXboy]

The Council only see the MONEY.

[pabely]

Vauxhall Way (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people/luton-council-s-scrutiny-board-refuses-to-give-thumbs-up-for-vauxhall-way-transformation-plans-1-9190330)

[LTNman]

The council in their documentation for airport expansion have not stated how traffic will travel the last mile from the A505 to the second terminal. They mention the locations of new sets of traffic lights that will be required from the junction of the A1M by Stevenage at junction 10 and changes to road junctions in Hitchin but then nothing.

They do mention that 7 sets of traffic lights will be required on residential roads of Wigmore in a half mile square area without stating that local residents streets will become the default route from the A1M to terminal 2. Any other council would be up in arms at proposals to use a local road network that does not even have a B road within it but this council is out of control with no respect for local public opinions.

[Kiltrash]

Perhaps this will prove to be the straw that gets the council to sort the ongoing route A5 - M1 (done) M1 - A6 - A505 ( still in consultation stage ) then link to T2. From Jansell House / Wigmore. Can't see it in my lifetime

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Kiltrash
As far as l am aware the A5-M1-A6 link has been approved, even after LBC objected to the routing.

[pabely]

Central Beds are due to sit on 8th Jan 20 to make a decision. Central Bedfordshire Council Planning Pages (http://plantech.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/PLANTECH/DCWebPages/AcolNetCGI.gov/PLANTECH/DCWebPages/acolnetcgi.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=613198)

[LGS6753]

Anyone know when the road will be extended to the A505 east of Luton?

[LTNman]

It has only ever appeared as a dotted line on a map around 20 years ago. It will happen one day but so far it is not officially sanctioned and will be the last bit of the Eastern/ Northern ring road to be completed. Whether that is in 5 years or 20 years time is anyone guess but you can bet Luton Council is keen for it to be built except it is in Hertfordshire so they will have no say.

[Buster the Bear]

Written by locals who are facing a new terminal and all the health hazards that will bring, being built literally on their doorstep. Judging by what I have been told, garnering considerable support locally and politically for the work they are doing in highlighting the huge financial gamble allegedly being taking by a borough council.

A good summary there.....I am pro-airport in many ways but this current Council needs to be held to account. Those who simply support expansion at any cost need to realise that if this was any other major UK airport the situation would be far more balanced and local residents would at least have a local Council who might actually listen!

As someone that worked at the airport for 20+ years and understanding the complexities of local Govt, it shocks me to see the apparent disregard for local people exhibited by a borough council intent on listening to consultants with very little big airport experience allegedly.

Anyway, what does a bear know about aviation in York.

[pabely]

November figures:
1,130,866, only +0.6%
Rolling 17,924,619 +9.5%
ATMs -2.2% which must please someone but shows a shift to bigger aircraft.

[LGS6753]

Gross numbers probably won't change much from now on until the planning cap is raised.
WZZ are using more A321s than 320s now, EZY more A320s than 319s, The WUK flights are almost all A321, but MON were using more 320s.

[LTNman]

The true figure is actually 18,127,372 and not the nonsense that is given to the council in a conspiracy of deception and even that figure does not include bizjets passengers. The cap imposed by the airport operator is actually to the number of movements and not the number of passengers although by restricting moments this would restrict passengers. The figures could just mean the passenger growth bubble has burst like it has at Stansted and has nothing to do with any cap imposed by the operator seeing ATM’s have dropped but that drop could include biz jet movements.

Neither the airport or the airlines would control how many empty seats are left on each aircraft and these figures reflects empty seats particularly in November as aircraft rarely arrive and depart full.

[davidjohnson6]

Would someone be able to either show a weblink to a document describing how traffic is capped, or describe the main details of how exactly the cap works ?

[LTNman]

There isn’t one that I know of, it is just an arrangement between LLAOL and LLAL/ Luton council not to increase movements. I assume there was quite a few new routes that started at the latter end of last year which would need to be added to by more new routes this year to sustain growth. Didn’t Wizz start new routes with its Monarch slots last November but has added no new based aircraft this year?

[LTNman]

Found this in the end. https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/LTN-W19-Capacity-Declaration_V4-with-revised-night-quota_26-SEPTEMBER-2019.pdf

First paragraph mentions a movement cap for the winter so it looks like it has started.

Seasonal Movement Cap
A seasonal limit of 39,129 commercial passenger movements will apply


For the summer the airport has put in a seat capacity cap instead of a movement cap.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/LTN_S20_Capacity-Declaration.pdf

Seasonal PATM Seat Limit
A total limit of 12,880,000 seats will apply across all Passenger Air Transport Movements coordinated in the S20 season.


If all those seats are reserved for the summer then Luton will not get any Euro football charters.
Also has the airport given each airline a quota dependent on their last years figures? Could seats be traded?

Southend will do well out of these restrictions as airlines go down the pecking order. Could also explain why Wizz opened a base on the Essex coast.

[pabely]

Central Beds are due to sit on 8th Jan 20 to make a decision. Central Bedfordshire Council Planning Pages (http://plantech.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/PLANTECH/DCWebPages/AcolNetCGI.gov/PLANTECH/DCWebPages/acolnetcgi.gov?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPNAME=Root.PgeResultDetail&TheSystemkey=613198)
Looks like this has been Approved by Central Beds

[LTNman]

That approved stretch of road has no impact on the airport. Only if the next two sections are put in will it make a difference.

The hypocrisy of Luton Council knows no bounds as they strongly objected to the road claiming that Central Beds did not listen to their objections, as they claimed it would add pollution and traffic to the March Farm council estates. At the same time they were and still are promoting airport expansion and promoting using local roads as the main access route from the A505 and the A1M to T2 while they also refuse to listen to objections.

I have found that most Luton Councillors are zombies and are incapable of independent thought. I suspect that many have been to Pakistan more times than they have been to the wards that will be mostly affected by airport expansion and are just not interested in the people who live in this part of town.

[Kiltrash]

Of course every time the State build a road it is not for the fun of things, it is so they can prepare access for the housing and light industry to follow.
I submit the housing springing up beside the M1-A5 link
But back to the argument of T2
Assuming T1 is currently handling 18m will they allow the Airport Capacity to rise to 36m? On a single Runway?

[LTNman]

Yes it is all about maximising the use of the single runway. Luton will get to 22.5 million passengers without a second terminal by expanding the existing terminal by in-filling some of the pavement fronting the terminal by the Eastern Apron.

[LTNman]

With the Dart opening next year this new wibbly wobbly roofed walkway and bus shelter will be redundant even though it has just been installed. It is unique to this side of the bus station and does not match the off the shelf design found on the other side.
https://i.imgur.com/SJ5BB96.jpg

The top two floors of the second multi story are due to open sometime on Friday. As can be seen, only one lift out of three has been commissioned. When it has been broken there is no alternative but to climb the stairs, which at the moment are also closed.
https://i.imgur.com/zp2LEd3.jpg

The final stages of the new route for the ring road are having its foundations laid. This will remove traffic from the side of Taxiway Delta. As mentioned before the former drop off area is now where meet and greet customers cars end up. This area is marked up on plans as a new apron with a pier running alongside the ring road.
https://i.imgur.com/8GsmTVo.jpg

Work on digging out one of two missing sections of tunnel continues. The other one is by Taxiway Alpha and the existing road tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/WYGLnno.jpg

Central Station. Concrete walls are being installed either end of the platform
https://i.imgur.com/1ZNEz4w.jpg

The areas around the strange structures in the foreground are having scaffolding and boarding erected. There are still no holes between the ground and first floor for lifts, stairs and escalators in the station. Plans show the station continuing to head in the direction of the camera so maybe this will be a foot passenger safety area while work continues above their heads.
https://i.imgur.com/DwzUfOZ.jpg

[Casadell]

The strange structures in the foreground are the footbridge that will cross the Thameslink platforms. Once erected the foreground will be free for the DART module to proceed towards the Hilton Hotel.

[LTNman]

Thanks. I would never have thought of that answer.

[ExpectmorePayless]

The wibbly wobbly bus shelter must be the most useless construction to date. :rolleyes:
It's blatantly too narrow to protect anybody from the horizontal wind and rain which​​​​ prevails the site for 9 months of the year.
Style over practicality. And no doubt will end up in a skip in a year or so once the DART enters service. :bored:​​​​​​

[Falcon666]

The wibbly wobbly bus shelter
Style over practicality. And no doubt will end up in a skip in a year or so once the DART enters service. :bored:​​​​​​

Ironic really , given the rest was practicality over style and that also got derogatory remarks.

[LTNman]

Interesting video for some of just how busy Luton was on Christmas Day during the morning peak as someone is dropped off in the under cover drop off zone and ends up catching the Level flight to Amsterdam. The filming continued through the security area where filming is meant to be banned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_3B_Fqyr-Y

[PAXboy]

We do people film like that? Are they hoping to catch a problem and sell the footage? When we went through LHR T3 in September, there was a man recording his bags being cling wrapped ... I must be old.

[pabely]

So what will happen to the £4M Vauxhall Way project?
Part of the development will be paid for by the £1.2m grant from South East Midlands Local Enterprise Partnership (SEMLEP), which has to be used by March 31st

[LTNman]

The £4 million cost is just the tiny bit by Hitchin Road. For the total cost you can add a zero to that figure as half a hillside has to be dug out opposite IBC. I had the figures somewhere so I will try and dig them out. The council seems to be on a mission to cut down every tree in the east of Luton. Even the Cemetery had all its trees cut down and don't get me started on our Park.

https://i.imgur.com/STBnjUA.jpg

The council were clever. They put out barriers and dug a small hole before the locals kicked off because they were not consulted which stopped the work in its tracks. I am guessing that because the work was started any funding will remain in place although no one else has come up with that theory. Can't think of any other reason why the Council would start a major road project and then not tell anyone.

Oh and those roadworks in the photo was the power cables going in for the Dart. They must have run a mile of cable to a substation.

[LTNman]

Might be old news and I have missed it but Wizz now carries more passengers out of Luton than Easyjet so have become the airports biggest carrier.

Also over 17,000 passengers used the airport on Christmas Day

[LGS6753]

From Airline Route:
Wizzair starting LTN-VIE once daily from 1st July with A321 in competition with EZY.
W62879 VIE1715 – 1840LTN 321 D
W62880 LTN1920 – 2240VIE 321 D

Edited to add: it looks as though EZY will not serve LTN-VIE after March 2020

[1sky]

From Airline Route:
Wizzair starting LTN-VIE once daily from 1st July with A321 in competition with EZY.
W62879 VIE1715 – 1840LTN 321 D
W62880 LTN1920 – 2240VIE 321 D

Edited to add: it looks as though EZY will not serve LTN-VIE after March 2020

I might be wrong but I recall that W6's VIE-LTN being announced last November.

[pabely]

I might be wrong but I recall that W6's VIE-LTN being announced last November.
Yes it was, EZY currently 4 weekly, can't remember if it was daily in S19 but it is an increase in capacity on route.

[LDNLTN]

I don’t often post on here but I do have my concerns. Being someone who currently works within the airport terminal, I notice a number of jobs still have not been complete interior wise. Also when there is a massive influx of passengers passing through, the main departure lounge area gets rather crowded. Also in terms of aesthetics, it looks very rushed and tacky inside the terminal.

I know that the new master plan states the current terminal being expanded again, and a new two story section will be built onto the back of the existing departure lounge. Could someone please explain what they actually plan or any rumours about the current terminal building and improvements still to be made. Personally I would love to see ceiling for one downstairs and improved flooring but they are minor.

[LTNman]

Where do I start. Maybe I should cover this in a construction update. Anyone notice the fire exit that has been closed off due to building work by the terminal entrance? On the subject of evacuation safety, if there was a panicked evacuation in the summer morning peak passengers could be penned in by the barriers to keep passengers out of the bus station bays and the balcony barriers that fronts the bus station. Just think of the Hillsborough disaster. The airport plans to reduce the pavement further by building a small angled extension at the front by the underground service road.

At the back of the terminal by what was the temporary outsize baggage area, that before that was check-in desks 200-210 or some such numbering, has been closed off, as has most of that end of the terminal apart from a route to the baggage storage room and the new outsize baggage area. No idea what is going on but there is no hurry and construction seems to be taking place by one man and his dog. I am not expecting much but after the customer agents desks were moved this has freed up space so maybe those check-in desks are coming back with a deeper passenger queuing area as it was very compact before and was hardly ever used. Don't know of any planned terminal extension at this end of the building as there is nowhere for it to go.

On the roof of the old 1960's terminal that can just be seen, a new barbed wire topped 4 or 5 metre fence is being erected. Why it needs a barbed wire fence to replace low safety barriers when it is on a roof is anyone guess but would maybe indicate the roof is becoming airside for some reason, which seems strange, as why make access for contractors so difficult as they would then need airside access.

Just in front of that by the terminals main entrance the whole area has been concreted over and this is now the bin storage area for the terminal. I don't know if this is an additional area to the one in the underground service area but it is partially hidden by the builders temporary fence as they are still on site. Not a great advert for the airport to see a mass of large dustbins and cardboard compactor machines by the side of a passenger entrance.

As for the ceiling on the ground floor, enough said. It was never finished apart from the bit above where the Princess Royal stood last year as I suspect the council was ashamed of the exposed pipework.

[LDNLTN]

Where do I start. Maybe I should cover this in a construction update. Anyone notice the fire exit that has been closed off due to building work by the terminal entrance? On the subject of evacuation safety, if there was a panicked evacuation in the summer morning peak passengers could be penned in by the barriers to keep passengers out of the bus station bays and the balcony barriers that fronts the bus station. Just think of the Hillsborough disaster. The airport plans to reduce the pavement further by building a small angled extension at the front by the underground service road.

At the back of the terminal by what was the temporary outsize baggage area, that before that was check-in desks 200-210 or some such numbering, has been closed off, as has most of that end of the terminal apart from a route to the baggage storage room and the new outsize baggage area. No idea what is going on but there is no hurry and construction seems to be taking place by one man and his dog. I am not expecting much but after the customer agents desks were moved this has freed up space so maybe those check-in desks are coming back with a deeper passenger queuing area as it was very compact before and was hardly ever used. Don't know of any planned terminal extension at this end of the building as there is no where for it to go.

On the roof of the old 1960's terminal that can just be seen, a new barbed wire topped 4 or 5 metre fence is being erected. Why it needs a barbed wire fence to replace low safety barriers when it is on a roof is anyone guess but would maybe indicate the roof is becoming airside for some reason, which seems strange, as why make access for contractors so difficult as they would then need airside access.

Just in front of that by the terminals main entrance the whole area has been concreted over and this is now the bin storage area for the terminal. I don't know if this is an additional area to the one in the underground service area but it is partially hidden by the builders temporary fence as they are still on site. Not a great advert for the airport to see a mass of large dustbins and cardboard compactor machines by the side of a passenger entrance.

As for the ceiling on the ground floor, enough said. It was never finished apart from the bit above where the Princess Royal stood last year as I suspect the council was ashamed of the exposed pipework.

As for the toilets aswell. They are diabolical; run down and tatty compared to other airports which I have used. It’s surprising aswell to hear people complain about the lack of jet bridges especially when it’s raining or windy. But then again it is a low budget airport and we can only wait and see what they do which I doubt will be much.

[Spanish eyes]

Yes I agree, it is always a real eye opener watching the latest batch of Wizz and Blue Air passengers arrive and depart. I often point out the smoking areas to the EU masses that smoke by the two entrance but 90% just carry on and don’t give a sh** or they don’t speak a word of a English so give the impression that they don’t give a sh**

[compton3bravo]

On 20 May an era will come to an end when the airport will close from 0000 to 0500 so that the runway can be redesignated presumably to 25-07.

[pabely]

Yes I agree, it is always a real eye opener watching the latest batch of Wizz and Blue Air passengers arrive and depart. I often point out the smoking areas to the EU masses that smoke by the two entrance but 90% just carry on and don’t give a sh** or they don’t speak a word of a English so give the impression that they don’t give a sh**
Is that the EU masses arriving from the newer Wizzair routes to Porto, Tenerife, Oslo and soon Vienna?

[pabely]

On 20 May an era will come to an end when the airport will close from 0000 to 0500 so that the runway can be redesignated presumably to 25-07.
Closer to my old days using 24/06 !

[Spanish eyes]

Is that the EU masses arriving from the newer Wizzair routes to Porto, Tenerife, Oslo and soon Vienna?

No not there, further east I would say but I can’t say where as the R card will be waved.

[_aax1]

[QUOTE=Spanish eyes;10669648]Yes I agree, it is always a real eye opener watching the latest batch of Wizz and Blue Air passengers arrive and depart. I often point out the smoking areas to the EU masses that smoke by the two entrance but 90% just carry on and don’t give a sh** or they don’t speak a word of a English so give the impression that they don’t give a sh**[Your

EU masses? You’ll probably find British passengers flying to Benidorm in their masses in that smoking area. Pretty sure they’ll do the same in Alicante and won’t speak a word of Spanish when they get there either.

[darren1]

[QUOTE=Spanish eyes;10669648]Yes I agree, it is always a real eye opener watching the latest batch of Wizz and Blue Air passengers arrive and depart. I often point out the smoking areas to the EU masses that smoke by the two entrance but 90% just carry on and don’t give a sh** or they don’t speak a word of a English so give the impression that they don’t give a sh**[Your

EU masses? You’ll probably find British passengers flying to Benidorm in their masses in that smoking area. Pretty sure they’ll do the same in Alicante and won’t speak a word of Spanish when they get there either.

So true, but that won’t stop a certain element on here turning a blind eye to that fact.

[Manx]

[QUOTE=Spanish eyes;10669648]Yes I agree, it is always a real eye opener watching the latest batch of Wizz and Blue Air passengers arrive and depart. I often point out the smoking areas to the EU masses that smoke by the two entrance but 90% just carry on and don’t give a sh** or they don’t speak a word of a English so give the impression that they don’t give a sh**[Your

EU masses? You’ll probably find British passengers flying to Benidorm in their masses in that smoking area. Pretty sure they’ll do the same in Alicante and won’t speak a word of Spanish when they get there either.

Exactly, you can walk through the smoking area and clearly hear English/estuary accents. It should be no suprise that when the airport has lots of foreign passengers travelling through that they are also doing the same. It's a disgusting habit regardless of their nationality. It's unfortunate and an embarrassment that a thread about an airport attracts the same disparaging posts about Eastern Europeans customers every couple of months.

[Spanish eyes]

Glad I didn’t mention the words E*****n E******n then. It is a sad fact though that it seems to be a problem focused on our continental friends to take note of the signage that ardornes the front of the terminal. The English speakers are in the main the odd staff member who should know better. Same issue in the new undercover drop off area but then I would think the bigger danger comes from car tailpipes.

[_aax1]

Glad I didn’t mention the words E*****n E******n then. It is a sad fact though that it seems to be a problem focused on our continental friends to take note of the signage that ardornes the front of the terminal. The English speakers are in the main the odd staff member who should know better. Same issue in the new undercover drop off area but then I would think the bigger danger comes from car tailpipes.

You didn’t need to, its the inference of your post. I assume you work at the airport? Just remember it’s all those ‘EU masses’ that most likely keep you and the vast majority of Luton’s staff employed.

[AirportPlanner1]

It’s just the state of this country I’m afraid. I met a passionate Brexiteer who desperately wants us to stop immigration because it’s “ruining the country” but they live in Spain and didn’t see any contradiction in that. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad.

[LTNman]

Not only by the terminal entrances is there a disregard for the signs. All four were puffing away today but then the airport does provide a bin for the dog ends despite the ban.
https://i.imgur.com/0jpdXZm.jpg

[Dannyboy39]

On the overcrowding issue in departures, why not renumber the gates and give each pier Ax (gates 1-18), Bx (gates 19-28) and Cx (gates 30-50). If it says “go to A gates”, I’m sure many more people would find seats in the older part of the terminal.

Is that just too simplistic to do?

[Kiltrash]

When I last used LTN we used public transport, none of this drop off thievery and through Security OK. Waited in the bar area and could see what would be out (Wizz) aircraft arrive and park up so we knew where the gate area would be and went there well before it came up on the screens
However I would agree with the above to get the customers to head for area and get them out of the Retail Therapy area

[darren1]

Not only by the terminal entrances is there a disregard for the signs. All four were puffing away today but then the airport does provide a bin for the dog ends despite the ban.


And you have permission to break privacy laws to publish these photos online?

[LTNman]

And you have permission to break privacy laws to publish these photos online?

I suggest you contact them then and see if they have an issue. While you are at it you can point out the no smoking signs and remind them of UK law.

[Manx]

glad i didn’t mention the words e*****n e******n then.

further east i would say but i can’t say where as the r card will be waved.

🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️🤷🏿‍♂️

[Boeing737-8]

Tenerife goes from 3 weekly to daily on the 1st June.

New route to Gran Canaria from the 4th June. (3 weekly)

[LTNman]

To add seats and routes other seats or routes will have to be dropped for this year. I never did establish whether each airline is allocated seats they can trade or even if there is a market to sell seats between airlines.

[Dannyboy39]

To add seats and routes other seats or routes will have to be dropped for this year. I never did establish whether each airline is allocated seats they can trade or even if there is a market to sell seats between airlines.
Or it just reaffirms how much of a b0llocks policy it is?

[lutonboi]

I’m sure I read somewhere that Wizz acquired a load of slots from TUI, so probably just filling them

[LTNman]

Or it just reaffirms how much of a b0llocks policy it is?

Planning law is planning law but we all know that Luton Borough Council will be approving the planning application by their partner LLAOL as the planning system is corrupt in Luton when it comes to planning applications by LLAL or LLAOL. For 2021 expect the capacity to have increased to 19 million with a further relaxation of night noise limits also being approved. No real point in the councillors turning up apart from claiming their allowances as this is just a rubber stamp exercise that they are obliged to vote on. Just hope they keep awake.

[1sky]

To add seats and routes other seats or routes will have to be dropped for this year. I never did establish whether each airline is allocated seats they can trade or even if there is a market to sell seats between airlines.

The evening SOF flight is moving to LGW.

[Boeing737-8]

Looking like Sofia evening flight is staying at LTN. LGW flight is an additional flight on top of the 3 daily from LTN.

[Smpl]

According with caa statistics, the total passengers of 2019 was 18,213,901. The airport only can increase in 4.3% in order to reach 19MM.

When the airport could start the new expansion of the old terminal?

[LTNman]

According with caa statistics, the total passengers of 2019 was 18,213,901. The airport only can increase in 4.3% in order to reach 19MM.

They plan to add capacity in small steps to 22.5 million in the expectation that no one bothers to complain rather than just announce plans to add a further 4.5 million in one hit. The planned terminal extension is only tiny as they have all but run out of room. Think it has more to do with adding a few more check-in desks. 18 million was meant to have maxed out the space available so expect even less room for passengers upstairs.

The builders will have real issues gaining enough access for the mini build as all men and materials will have to cross the main passenger access route to the terminal and also will have to close off a large chunk of pavement for access via the bus station. It will also once again reenforce the view that the airport is a permanent building site.

[pabely]

According with caa statistics, the total passengers of 2019 was 18,213,901. The airport only can increase in 4.3% in order to reach 19MM.

When the airport could start the new expansion of the old terminal?

I think there was approval to go for new South East stands (6 pack) - upgrade run-up bay (2 stands) this week. Plans show Pondarosa being given back (or lease back) which will please Signature but net gain is 4 overnight Class C stands (47), bets please on who will benefit most, WZZ UK, EZY, RYR. That will add just under a million pax alone depending on based aircraft size.

Next expansion +4 more stands between current NE 8 pack and South Stands.......

[LTNman]

I think there was approval to go for new North East stands (6 pack) - upgrade run-up bay (2 stands) this week. Plans show Pondarosa being given back (or lease back) which will please Signature but net gain is 4 overnight Class 4 stands (47), bets please on who will benefit most, WZZ UK, EZY, RYR. That will add just under a million pax alone depending on based aircraft size.
...

They don’t need approval.

If the bullsh!ters at the airport are to be believed those extra stands have nothing to do with expanding the airport above 18 million. Lies and teeth comes to mind as the council, LLAL and LLAOL have form when it comes to telling pokies. They claim those new stands are part of the application for 18 million yet we all know they are not as Pabely points out.

[Falcon666]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZUInXiPZ-o

latest drone footage of DART for anybody interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXMlguyk9xc

2019 development time lapse

[PAXboy]

Will the Dart have a station in the Mid-Term car park, or will they still be on busses?

[Falcon666]

Will the Dart have a station in the Mid-Term car park, or will they still be on busses?

No, the plans were dropped for the Mid-term station

[seer557]

The more I see of the "ski jump" embellishment to the DART bridge, the more ridiculous it looks. What a waste of money!

Seer

[Lee Baker Street]

The more I see of the "ski jump" embellishment to the DART bridge, the more ridiculous it looks. What a waste of money!

Seer

When I look at the so called ‘ski jump’ I see something modern and inspiring and I vision- reaching for the skies. The fact is we all see things from a different angle and I like to think I am unbiased though it is becoming apparent this forum has now been hijacked by the green brigade!

[LTNman]

The ski slope and supports wasn’t painted before it was transported down the hill so the road has got to be closed for painting. Think the airport approach road and the A1081 are meant to be closed overnight this week but the work might have been delayed.

As for the bridges appearance, it looked impressive when being built by the Ibis and not so impressive when it was first erected as it is on a bend in the road so only a quick glimpse is seen. Now the ski slope looks rather pointless after driving under it many times. I am sure it has cost a small fortune to build and added to the cost of transporting the bridge as the front support actually needed its own temporary supports to hold it in place.

Also looking at the video the top of the slope appears to be much taller than the approach light.

[PAXboy]

Lee baker Street This forum has most certainly not be hijacked by the green brigade. There are many posters concerned at the haphazard expansion of LTN (as also happens at other airports and infrastructure in the UK) but I cannot see those who want to reduce the level of operations. Make them better? Yes. Stop?

[1sky]

Looking like Sofia evening flight is staying at LTN. LGW flight is an additional flight on top of the 3 daily from LTN.

No it isn’t.

[DC3 Dave]

The ski slope and supports wasn’t painted before it was transported down the hill so the road has got to be closed for painting. Think the airport approach road and the A1081 are meant to be closed overnight this week but the work might have been delayed.

Are you sure it will be painted? The “in thing” with these signature bridges is to use weathered steel. At least I recall reading that somewhere.

There’s a footbridge over a railway line in Chiswick, that’s been up over a year without any sign of a lick of paint. It’s a lovely shade of rust.


Edit: Found some pics to show what I mean.

https://expedition.uk.com/projects/chiswick-park-footbridge/

[Falcon666]

Wizz dropping OSL / PRG / SVG from June.
They haven’t really had much luck with the Scandinavian routes since starting. I guess putting the A321 on some of the routes from the start was a tad over optimistic.
TOS finishes at the end of March- if it is seasonal I am not sure.

PRG/ VIE end up swopped over between Easy and Wizz so no actual loss of route.

[compton3bravo]

Tromso is seasonal as is Grenoble which finishes about the same time as Tromso. Wizz do not mess about if a route is not working, move on and start new routes which might work better. The slots will be used for example extra Tenerife and the new Gran Canaria service.

.

[pabely]

Tromso is seasonal as is Grenoble which finishes about the same time as Tromso. Wizz do not mess about if a route is not working, move on and start new routes which might work better. The slots will be used for example extra Tenerife and the new Gran Canaria service.

.
With the loss of the Scandinavian routes but extra Canaries I think there is still more to come.

[LTNman]

The digging out of the 2 remaining sections of tunnel inside the CTA continues. The photo shows the route of one track as a concrete wall sits in between each pathway
https://i.imgur.com/IIXEHBR.jpg

This is believed to be the 2 winding gear locations that can be seen in the maintenance area. A similar arrangement exists on the ground floor of Parkway Dart station.
https://i.imgur.com/NzGylhb.jpg

The new route for the ring road opened at midday on Wednesday. In the background can be seen the roof of the Dart maintenance area . The road to the right leads to the delivery area for the terminal and the access point for Dart construction traffic. The top 2 floors of the new multi story did not open as expected and remains closed.
https://i.imgur.com/6XUWWXY.jpg

Despite morning frost the new de-icing facility was not in use with aircraft being de-iced on stand today. Has it ever been used apart from testing? In the foreground is the former drop off area that is now the meet and greet parking area. Behind that is the now closed ring road. In the background to the left of the easyjet at the runway holding point can be seen a digger. Has work started on the taxiway extension to runway 26?
https://i.imgur.com/GxHY7TR.jpg

The airport is proposing to add capacity to the existing terminal by infilling this section. The terminal extension would extend to approximately the smoking area and would be tapered to cover part of the front of the existing new build
https://i.imgur.com/yN59Y5i.jpg

I would assume that all of the pavement to the right of the railings would be used as the access route and for the construction compound. I am thinking access would be via the service road and not the bus station as I stated last week.
https://i.imgur.com/DwWKv8g.jpg

[VHF4]

Tenerife goes from 3 weekly to daily on the 1st June.

New route to Gran Canaria from the 4th June. (3 weekly)


Thats good news hearvit might be extended ...

[Musket90]

LTNman
Several airports have remote aircraft de-icing facilities but they are not routinely used unless the weather dictates it. This morning's slight frost with no precipitation likely didn't warrant their use as hold over time following de-icing is much longer than when precipitation occurs. In a beast from the east type weather situation it's possible they would have been used but there are so many variables involved before deciding whether there is any benefit in using them over remaining on stand for de-icing. This winter so far being so mild has not warranted any airport's using their remote de-icing facilities.

[Buster the Bear]

Has there been any news or comment about the recently revealed revamp of the local government funding formula and the potential impact on revenue that might affect some of the future plans by LBC to borrow and expand the airport?

[vlieger]

In the background to the left of the easyjet at the runway holding point can be seen a digger. Has work started on the taxiway extension to runway 26?


From what I've seen from the flightdeck in the last few months, the answer to that question would be yes.

[LTNman]

Are you sure it will be painted? The “in thing” with these signature bridges is to use weathered steel. At least I recall reading that somewhere.

There’s a footbridge over a railway line in Chiswick, that’s been up over a year without any sign of a lick of paint. It’s a lovely shade of rust.


Edit: Found some pics to show what I mean.

https://expedition.uk.com/projects/chiswick-park-footbridge/

The rusty bits underneath are indeed not going to be painted as far as I know. It is the supports to the ski jump that are going to be painted as they are 5 different shades of grey at the moment.

[LTNman]

Seems the council is running into a few problems regarding its airport and its plans to jump the gun by starting building the £124 million approach road for the second terminal before the terminal is approved. The council thought they were clever keeping the road out of the DCO process, which will be decided by Government, as they claimed the road was for a business park. Most of this planned business park occupies the same public park that is required for airport expansion so can never be built.

Because it is not part of the DCO the council has discovered that despite the planning application coming from its own airport the road has got to be funded by the council and they can't afford it. They have already stated that the only way to fund the interest payments on the road is to cut council services but it gets worse. The dual carriageway is only viable if it serves a second terminal and not a business park but there is no guarantee the government will allow the airport to build a second terminal.

Now the councillors who have to vote this through and are normally compliant and somewhat intellectually challenged are surprisingly starting to ask questions which is resulting in that the decision for funding keeps getting deferred. I have no doubt that eventually this will be approved as the council has spent so much money on this project that it can't afford to quit now.

This leads to the next problem for the council which is a major one. The Government in a general funding consultation considers airports to be "high risk" properties so should be removed from local rating lists and placed on a central list. Should this happen it would have a very significant impact on Luton, as London Luton Airport is a major part of the Council’s current rating list. It would make Luton far more reliant on the business rates ‘top up’, and remove the potential link between future development of the Airport providing additional business rates income for the town.

[DC3 Dave]

The rusty bits underneath are indeed not going to be painted as far as I know. It is the supports to the ski jump that are going to be painted as they are 5 different shades of grey at the moment.

Looks like the designers have managed to incorporate the unfinished aesthetic found elsewhere at the airport!

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/business/easyjet-unveils-plans-new-head-office-luton-tipped-2022-1392789

[LTNman]

More info here https://www.easyjet-new-home.co.uk/. To be noted that easyjet are keeping well away from the airport owned Century Park business park location which isn't surprising seeing the airport also want to expand the airport on most of the same site. Not sure where easyjet have found all those trees.

[Captain_Caveman]

More info here https://www.easyjet-new-home.co.uk/. To be noted that easyjet are keeping well away from the airport owned Century Park business park location which isn't surprising seeing the airport also want to expand the airport on most of the same site. Not sure where easyjet have found all those trees.


Century park has got nothing to do with the decision, the main reason is that easyJet wanted land which they could own themselves Which was near to the airport and not leased off of a third party. Hence the location.

[LTNman]

They have picked the only spot near the airport that isn't in an Enterprise Zone
https://i.imgur.com/BZRReMd.jpg

[Captain_Caveman]

and pretty much all of that land in your map is owned by the airport ! hence why the land for the new hq has been bought by easyJet. Also the current HQ isnt in the enterprise zone.

[LTNman]

Certainly a good move for Easyjet owning their own land. Did hear a few months ago when the rumours started about easyJet’s new HQ location that they were going to rent a couple of floors in one of the multi-storey car parks to free up space for the building work. No idea if that is even being considered but that is what I heard.

[Captain_Caveman]

Certainly a good move for Easyjet owning their own land. Did hear a few months ago when the rumours started about easyJet’s new HQ location that they were going to rent a couple of floors in one of the multi-storey car parks to free up space for the building work. No idea if that is even being considered but that is what I heard.

you heard right but that was for car parking not for office space... Navigation house next to H89 is also being used as well as the academy and capability green at the moment.

[pabely]

you heard right but that was for car parking not for office space... Navigation house next to H89 is also being used as well as the academy and capability green at the moment.
Don't they use a compond at the bottom of airport hill and bus employees to CTA?

[davidjohnson6]

Once the building site has been completed, is it planned that Easyjet will own the land outright, or do they plan to sell the site to a property company (if Easyjet originally bought the site) and enter into a 10 year lease ?

Being the main tenant in an office building is one thing. Being the long term owner of the building is quite different. I imagine that Easyjet will be a very different company in 10 or 20 years time, and their needs for office space in 10+ years will also be rather different. Property companies are good at mamaging office space but lousy at flying; airlines are good at flying but not very good at managing office space when the size and shape of the airline changes significantly over time. Easyjet may well prefer a 10 year tenancy over building ownership

[Captain_Caveman]

Once the building site has been completed, is it planned that Easyjet will own the land outright, or do they plan to sell the site to a property company (if Easyjet originally bought the site) and enter into a 10 year lease ?

Being the main tenant in an office building is one thing. Being the long term owner of the building is quite different. I imagine that Easyjet will be a very different company in 10 or 20 years time, and their needs for office space in 10+ years will also be rather different. Property companies are good at mamaging office space but lousy at flying; airlines are good at flying but not very good at managing office space when the size and shape of the airline changes significantly over time. Easyjet may well prefer a 10 year tenancy over building ownership


land is already purchased and will remain owned by easyjet

[LTNman]

They have bought the whole site which also contains the staff car parking for the IBC van plant and I think an off site parking company as well as a coach company yard and offices. They won’t need the whole site so will they sell off the bits they don’t need or become a landlord?

The next question is will Easyjet keep their existing Hangar 89 just for its hangar space or will they vacate the whole building?

[Captain_Caveman]

They have bought the whole site which also contains the staff car parking for the IBC van plant and I think an off site parking company as well as a coach company yard and offices. They won’t need the whole site so will they sell off the bits they don’t need or become a landlord?

The next question is will Easyjet keep their existing Hangar 89 just for its hangar space or will they vacate the whole building?

the existing car park that easyJet uses will merge into the new hq, it’s adjoining land. Hanger 89 lease has been extended and decisions on the office space at the front of the building will be made in the next year.

[pabely]

I assume Navigation House, the academy & offices at capability green will have their leases expire then.

[LTNman]

There was a planning application last year to turn Navigation House into the only hotel inside the CTA.

[LTNman]

Several Wizz arrivals have ended up in Stansted today.

[nt639]

And Ryanair, Easy & Blue. High winds & an airport on a hill don’t mix.

[LTNman]

More to do with the direction of the runway. Stansted is better aligned for the direction of the wind. Several more in the hold or not even bothering to go into the hold

[daz211]

More to do with the direction of the runway. Stansted is better aligned for the direction of the wind. Several more in the hold or not even bothering to go into the hold

Not much of a diversion, Seen a Norwegian and a British Airways, both from the States, DY diverted to CPH and BA is on its way to FRA, both we’re heading to LGW. :eek:

[barry lloyd]

The Wizzair Poznan-Luton has diverted to Newcastle!

[AirportPlanner1]

Not much of a diversion, Seen a Norwegian and a British Airways, both from the States, DY diverted to CPH and BA is on its way to FRA, both we’re heading to LGW. :eek:

Also an STN-bound FR from Sweden currently heading somewhere in France

[LiamNCL]

The Wizzair Poznan-Luton has diverted to Newcastle!

Really not bad at all up here , dry and a slight breeze.

[ssflyer]

Wizz Air from Cracow diverted to BHX
https://www.newsflare.com/video/337839/extreme-bumpy-landing-for-diverted-plane-in-storm-ciara-crosswinds
SS

[dvc]

The more I see of the "ski jump" embellishment to the DART bridge, the more ridiculous it looks. What a waste of money!

Seer
I see it installed wrong way round. I believe on 3D rendering was also other way round.

[LTNman]

The superstructure is being covered in scaffolding again after being covered when it was by the Ibis. I assume for the painting of the 5 shades of grey to a single grey.

[LTNman]

There has been some debate here whether the consent sort by LLAOL to add new stands were more than the 48 originally approved in the 2015 planning application.

I have provided the evidence submitted by LLAOL that they consider they are still within the existing limit with the existing stand layout of 43 stands and the proposed layout of 47 stands. Seems that cargo stands don't count.

As can be seen stands 16-19 will revert back to Signature and will be called just stand 16.

In the original application Signature stand 80 was meant to be 3 terminal stands and stand 80 was meant to be 1 terminal stand . Also on the hangar line there was one extra stand making 48 in total plus cargo.

Now
https://i.imgur.com/ejhy6FP.jpg

Proposed
https://i.imgur.com/ozi717z.jpg

[pabely]

Have stands 80/81 and Cargo ever been used for sheduled Aircraft? I did imply on a previous post about stand 16 going back to Signature full time.

[LTNman]

Ocean Sky put in the planning application for stands 80 and 81 in 2013. They then appeared on the airports expansion plans for terminal stands. I have never seen either stand used for terminal passengers although I have seen an easyjet parked on there once. Cargo stands have been used for diverted passenger aircraft but then so has taxiway extension to Taxiway Bravo

[STN Ramp Rat]

NOT wanting to start a LTN v STN war ..... just a heads up that El AL are reintroducing TLV-STN-TLV services from June, they appear to be complimentary to the Luton services not "instead of" and are bookable on the EL AL website.

[daz211]

yet you post on the LTN thread, rather than just the more relevant STN one :ugh: I think it should be posted on the Luton thread, if only to stop the questions regarding a possible airport switch, I think it a very relevant post.

[LTNman]

EL AL are dipping their toes back into Stansted because they cannot get extra flights into Luton due to seat capping at Luton. Also there could be an argument that there is less competition.

[davidjohnson6]

EL AL are dipping their toes back into Stansted because they cannot get extra flights into Luton due to seat capping at Luton.

Slots at Heathrow are traded for money. Is there any reason why slots at Luton should not be bought/sold ? Yes, I know people would have laughed at the idea 5 years ago

I'm wondering if the likes of Vueling or SunExpress might be persuaded to move to Stansted in exchange for some cash from El Al...

[LTNman]

The cap is only expected to last this year with a planning application from the council’s business partner being heard soon. There is no doubt about the outcome as it is council policy to ignore objections as it puts its own interests first, which makes a mockery of Luton’s corrupt planning process.

[Spanish eyes]

It wasn’t that long ago that the airport operator stated that the airports capacity was 16 million but the bully boys at the council wanted more with the airport operator eventually conceding. Now according to reports here the operator has put in an application for 19 million which makes me wonder if it is actually the council putting in the application to itself via the company that is running the concession. This I would imagine is linked to the other planning application to relax noise limits as the operator doesn’t wish to comply.

This is a classic tale of abuse of power by a local authority where there are no checks and balances and where the planning committee goes through the motions to make everything appear legal but the process is not impartial.

[Lee Baker Street]

It wasn’t that long ago that the airport operator stated that the airports capacity was 16 million but the bully boys at the council wanted more with the airport operator eventually conceding. Now according to reports here the operator has put in an application for 19 million which makes me wonder if it is actually the council putting in the application to itself via the company that is running the concession. This I would imagine is linked to the other planning application to relax noise limits as the operator doesn’t wish to comply.

This is a classic tale of abuse of power by a local authority where there are no checks and balances and where the planning committee goes through the motions to make everything appear legal but the process is not impartial.

Spanish eyes, I must be one of many Luton tax payers who ‘demand’ LBC allow the airport to reach its potential which will entail continued growth. In turn there will be employment opportunities for those seeking work.

For decades the airport was under used and now it has the potential to become the UK’s 3rd Airport (yes 3rd Airport) and I live within twenty five seconds of departing aircraft from the runway over south Luton.

You claim or have inferred that the council is breaking the Law. Can you please state exactly what Laws have been broken.

I await your response...

[Spanish eyes]

No I haven't said the council was breaking the law, I said it was an abuse of power.

https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/probity-planning-councill-d92.pdf

"Members of a planning committee, Local Plan steering group (or full Council when the local plan is being considered) need to avoid any appearance of bias or of having predetermined their views before taking a decision on a planning application or on planning policies"

The airport is a limited company and so should be treated like any other limited company.


Now tell me they all go into that meeting with an open mind when it is council policy to expand the airport at any cost. Even airport supporters, and I am one of them, can see something is not right here. So who is really pushing this application? Couple of clues here from the past with the then airport operator saying the capacity was 16 million.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCxgfo8Tb5o


Or here when the council wanted more and had a big falling out.

AirportWatch | Second consultation at Luton Airport ? this time it?s the Master Plan (http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2012/03/british-airways-is-big-loser-as-public-stay-grounded/)

[ericlday]

Any successful business with year on year increases should be given the opportunity to expand,

[inOban]

Really? Many of our most successful and growing businesses are completely illegal. Going back a few decades we had very successful and growing tobacco businesses. Times change.

[boeing_eng]

LBS...Your enthusiasm for expanding LTN at any cost is well known on this thread. However, many of us who have always been big supporters of the airport in the past can see that the current situation with LLC & LLA is simply becoming a farce and its time for change!

[Buster the Bear]

Any successful business with year on year increases should be given the opportunity to expand,

Really? At the expense of the environment, destruction of open land and building a huge terminal on the doorstep of a large residential area. Not to mention the ever increasing debt level being accrued by a local council that seems to be happy to cut local services, whilst it meets it's repayment burden?

[LTNman]

For decades the airport was under used and now it has the potential to become the UK’s 3rd Airport (yes 3rd Airport) and I live within twenty five seconds of departing aircraft from the runway over south Luton.

..

Just interested to know at what point would even you say enough is enough, 32m, 50m, 100m or more?

[pabely]

The only way to go above 32M pax would be a second runway and build South and thus bring Herts into the party!

[Flitefone]

The only way to go above 32M pax would be a second runway and build South and thus bring Herts into the party!

Err, LGW currently around 46m on a single runway, STN planning more than 35m on a single runway. The LTN plan talks of 32m, for which - with the right runway capacity tools and configuration - one runway is more than enough.

FF

[pabely]

Err, LGW currently around 46m on a single runway, STN planning more than 35m on a single runway. The LTN plan talks of 32m, for which - with the right runway capacity tools and configuration - one runway is more than enough.

FF
But much longer runways attracting bigger aircraft. Stand capacity as well, no room for more stands above what is planned. Currently LGW has 57 based airbuses!

[LTNman]

The council is actually looking at 38million which is a figure already seen in some council publications. There are plans for an additional apron to achieve this figure.

[pabely]

The council is actually looking at 38million which is a figure already seen in some council publications. There are plans for an additional apron to achieve this figure.
Was, https://futureluton.llal.org.uk/

[LTNman]

https://www.llal.org.uk/press-release.html

. Under the London Luton Airport (LTN) Vision for Sustainable Growth 2020-2050, passenger capacity would go from 18 million to 36-38 mppa, and the airport would accommodate 240,000 annual air traffic movements.


Just to make it clear, as stated above, the true figure is 36-38 million. The only reason it was dropped was that the council found out that by going for the upper figure they would have to pay for major M1 improvements. By going for 32 million they avoid the costs but they can then give themselves planning permission to add another 4 million later.

[Flitefone]

But much longer runways attracting bigger aircraft. Stand capacity as well, no room for more stands above what is planned. Currently LGW has 57 based airbuses!

A single runway should comfortably be able to support 250K movements per year, and the DfT forecasts agree. Luton already sees an average of more than 160 pax per Air Transport Movement, this could give a theoretical runway capacity of 40m. The overall trend will continue to see increasing size of aircraft and passengers per flight. Its the transition of the multi sector a day A319 type through to A321 that will make the most difference, not the one rotation per day wide bodies. Of course there would need to be other changes, taxiways, stands etc. as well as loss of the existing corporate activity at LTN (much of which is already planned and in some cases already happening). The further expansion of LTN, STN and LGW is all more likely than R3 at LHR. None of it is certain of course.

FF

[LGS6753]

The 2020 Initial Co-ordination Report has been published by ACL.

If I read it correctly it shows no S20 FlyBosnia, no Air Serbia or Smartwings. In fact, the only operators are EasyJet, WizzAir, Ryanair, Blue Air, Level/Vueling, Sun Express, TUI, El Al, Freebird, DHL and MNG.
From the initial schedule, there are reduced ATMs by DHL, El Al, TUI and Vueling.

The ridiculous and bureaucratic passenger cap is obviously taking its toll across the board. In the peak week only 10 airlines will operate (Putting EZY/EJU together, WZZ/WUK together and Level/Anisec/Vueling together).

[compton3bravo]

Yes it looks like the last Air Bosnia flight will be on 18 April. Not too surprising really, the airline is really struggling to keep going with one of there two Airbus aircraft has been returned to the lessor. On most days there is just one return service to Rome.

[pabely]

The 2020 Initial Co-ordination Report has been published by ACL.

If I read it correctly it shows no S20 FlyBosnia, no Air Serbia or Smartwings. In fact, the only operators are EasyJet, WizzAir, Ryanair, Blue Air, Level/Vueling, Sun Express, TUI, El Al, Freebird, DHL and MNG.
From the initial schedule, there are reduced ATMs by DHL, El Al, TUI and Vueling.

The ridiculous and bureaucratic passenger cap is obviously taking its toll across the board. In the peak week only 10 airlines will operate (Putting EZY/EJU together, WZZ/WUK together and Level/Anisec/Vueling together).
Yes 18M cap is hitting hard now.
An award, that's new for Luton!

https://www.airport-technology.com/news/luton-customer-experience-accreditation/

[LTNman]

It is not a ridiculous and bureaucratic passenger cap. They are just following the conditions of the previous planning application. They got away with it over the breach of the night noise limit for a number of years but now they have been rumbled.

I have no sympathy as LLAOL and the council have brought this on themselves. The council offered massive incentives to LLAOL to grow passenger numbers as fast as possible. They knew what the limit was and how fast it was approaching yet they wait until the 11th hour before doing something about it. Maybe they were arguing about whether LLAOL, LLAL or the council should put in the planning application to bust the councils own limit. Maybe the council has had to offer LLAOL more incentives to do their dirty work so their "dodgy" planning committee can approve it.

[AndrewH52]

Given the scale of proposed expansion (i.e. in excess of 10 million increase in passengers) this is classed as a nationally significant infrastructure project and so is not determined by the local planning authority. The government will make the decision on whether to grant the necessary development orders, not the planning committee.

[LGS6753]

As a freemarketeer, I reiterate that the cap is ridiculous and bureaucratic. It is ridiculous because it limits the ability of passengers to fly from/to where they want, and airlines to use the airport they choose. It is bureaucratic because it gives the decision on where flights can be offered from to the bureaucrats of Luton Borough Council, or some Government planning quango.

These people don't know best. If passengers, airlines and the airport authority are happy to allow more passengers to use the airport, why should a bunch of unelected, non-specialist bureaucrats stop them? If the airport becomes overcrowded, passengers and airlines will choose to go elsewhere, or put pressure on the airport to increase capacity.

At all times, all the participants know that operations must be safe and comply with the regulations that apply everywhere else. But setting a cap on passenger numbers is intellectually indefensible - it has no impact on noise, pollution, air or ground congestion. It merely inconveniences the "man in the street" who wants to fly.

/Rant mode off.

[inOban]

In any one year over half the population don't fly at all, and 15 % make 70% of all flights. So what does the man in the street want?

[LTNman]

Given the scale of proposed expansion (i.e. in excess of 10 million increase in passengers) this is classed as a nationally significant infrastructure project and so is not determined by the local planning authority. The government will make the decision on whether to grant the necessary development orders, not the planning committee.

Sorry you are wrong. The application for 32 million will indeed go to Government as a DCO but mini applications by LLAOL to increase capacity in small chunks up to a maximum of 22.5 million passengers within the airports existing boundary can and will be decided by the local planning authority. The first application for an extra million is on the councils planning portal.

[LTNman]

As a freemarketeer, I reiterate that the cap is ridiculous and bureaucratic. It is ridiculous because it limits the ability of passengers to fly from/to where they want, and airlines to use the airport they choose. It is bureaucratic because it gives the decision on where flights can be offered from to the bureaucrats of Luton Borough Council, or some Government planning quango.

These people don't know best. If passengers, airlines and the airport authority are happy to allow more passengers to use the airport, why should a bunch of unelected, non-specialist bureaucrats stop them? If the airport becomes overcrowded, passengers and airlines will choose to go elsewhere, or put pressure on the airport to increase capacity.

At all times, all the participants know that operations must be safe and comply with the regulations that apply everywhere else. But setting a cap on passenger numbers is intellectually indefensible - it has no impact on noise, pollution, air or ground congestion. It merely inconveniences the "man in the street" who wants to fly.

/Rant mode off.

You make no mention about the residents and communities that would be affected by increased passenger numbers that are presently protected by the existing planning permission. In your eyes they don’t matter. The planning committee is meant to way up all views and opinions before making a decision about an increase in numbers. The fact that they won’t is well known. You seem to be advocating that any planning permission should be ignored.

What about if a builder got planning permission to build a 1000 houses. You seem to be saying he should then be allowed to ignore that permission and build as many as he likes if the demand is there.

Also it isn’t the council deciding where people can fly to as it remains the airlines that pick and choose where they fly. They can introduce new services by dropping weak destinations. What has happened is that for this year only it stops new airlines coming to Luton. If you consider the fact that for years no new airline has wanted to come to Luton this isn’t a big deal.

Finally you mention more choices for passengers. Luton’s restrictions means that ELAL will fly from Stansted this summer so I assume you are delighted.

[hatters united]

You make no mention about the residents and communities that would be affected by increased passenger numbers that are presently protected by the existing planning permission. In your eyes they don’t matter. The planning committee is meant to way up all views and opinions before making a decision about an increase in numbers. The fact that they won’t is well known. You seem to be advocating that any planning permission should be ignored.

What about if a builder got planning permission to build a 1000 houses. You seem to be saying he should then be allowed to ignore that permission and build as many as he likes if the demand is there.

Also it isn’t the council deciding where people can fly to as it remains the airlines that pick and choose where they fly. They can introduce new services by dropping weak destinations. What has happened is that for this year only it stops new airlines coming to Luton. If you consider the fact that for years no new airline has wanted to come to Luton this isn’t a big deal.

Finally you mention more choices for passengers. Luton’s restrictions means that ELAL will fly from Stansted this summer so I assume you are delighted.

LTNMAN, You are getting very boring with your Airport bashing.
You have been over the years promoting airport expansion and getting more aircraft, airlines and passengers through the door.
Now because you brought a house very near to the said airport and the airport is going to get even closer to you, its nothing but whinge, whinge, whinge, you are a true NIMBY of the highest order.

[LTNman]

I don’t oppose the airport, never have done. Not a nimby either. What you don’t like are the plain facts of my post because it isn’t your view which is fair enough. It would be better for you to pull apart my argument with counter points and debate rather than make pointless posts because you haven’t the ability to challenge what I say.

I see Luton’s council tax is increasing by the maximum 4% allowed due to a shortfall caused by airport income now being diverted to pay interest payments on airport debts associated with expansion. I am sure you won’t mind paying the extra. If anyone thinks I am wrong then challenge me and I will link you to the council finance report that spells it out. This is the report the council hoped residents would not read but they were predicting trouble a year or two ago.

The dual carriageway for T2 is being funded by the council directly where they admit they cannot afford it and that project will have to be funded by council cutbacks. This is why this road still hasn’t been approved by councillors despite it getting planning permission a year ago to serve a business park where they forgot to mention that it would also need to serve the new terminal to make it viable.

[boeing_eng]

hatters_united....rather than just resort to personal insults open your eyes and take a good look at the financial mess that LBC have now managed to create in the name of speculative airport expansion. This isn't about Nimbyism....As a local tax payer and airport worker I want to see the airport thrive and remain a local asset. However, LBC are now simply well out of their depth trying to grapple with the finances which as they stand mean that local services will get cut and council tax bills will rise with no guarantees of any long term returns...

[hatters united]

hatters_united....rather than just resort to personal insults open your eyes and take a good look at the financial mess that LBC have now managed to create in the name of speculative airport expansion. This isn't about Nimbyism....As a local tax payer and airport worker I want to see the airport thrive and remain a local asset. However, LBC are now simply well out of their depth trying to grapple with the finances which as they stand mean that local services will get cut and council tax bills will rise with no guarantees of any long term returns...

Wasn't a personal insult at all, just stating a fact that all LTNMAN does now is whinge about the expansion because it is now going to effect him.
Before you claim I don't know what airport noise and intrusion is like, I live just under the flight path about five miles out and work in aviation so know all about it myself.

[LGS6753]

You make no mention about the residents and communities that would be affected by increased passenger numbers that are presently protected by the existing planning permission. In your eyes they don’t matter. The planning committee is meant to way up all views and opinions before making a decision about an increase in numbers. The fact that they won’t is well known. You seem to be advocating that any planning permission should be ignored.

What about if a builder got planning permission to build a 1000 houses. You seem to be saying he should then be allowed to ignore that permission and build as many as he likes if the demand is there.

Also it isn’t the council deciding where people can fly to as it remains the airlines that pick and choose where they fly. They can introduce new services by dropping weak destinations. What has happened is that for this year only it stops new airlines coming to Luton. If you consider the fact that for years no new airline has wanted to come to Luton this isn’t a big deal.

Finally you mention more choices for passengers. Luton’s restrictions means that ELAL will fly from Stansted this summer so I assume you are delighted.

LTNman,
I appreciate your point of view, and as a Luton resident I can understand your reticence about further expansion, particularly as LBC seem to have made such a mess of the finances. However, the point I made was that the passenger cap per se has no effect on the local community. It makes no attempt to curtail freight flights, night flights, executive jet movements, and as such is intellectually bankrupt.
As for El Al, I'm sure they would rather keep all their North London operations together - as a smallish airline they are now serving three London airports - not really sustainable. I also suspect that the reason they moved from Stansted to Luton was the latter's proximity to the large North London Jewish population cluster.
I'm afraid I don't agree that your example of a housing developer is comparable. What would make that comparable would be the planners deciding that only 2000 people could live in the 1000 houses!

Feel free to contradict/comment - I know you have a fair and reasonable view of all matters LTN.

[LGS6753]

... as I said:
I know you have a fair and reasonable view of all matters LTN

[Dannyboy39]

As someone else who has lived in the town until very recently and owe a lot to having an airport walking distance from my home, I can understand both points of view. I also use the airport 25-30 times a year.

The question - why have a cap. What is the aim here? An arbitrary cap for the sake of planning? To reduce ATMs? To make the airport a more tolerable experience for the traveller? To reduce pollution and increase QOL for the local community?

The arguments for sure have merit... although for me it is a bit pointless having an arbitrary cap - it doesn’t exactly reduce ATMs unless larger types are used. It also doesn’t allow for free market competition and increase opportunities for the local people it serves. The drop off zone improvements have helped immeasurably in comparison to the previous offerings albeit it is a mile to walk. The DART will be a worthwhile investment... eventually. What is wrong with the “ski jump” considering people were accusing the airport of constantly cheaping out?

I think what would help is a reduction or elimination of the drop off charge for local residents who have very little feasible public transport option. That would get people on side.

People also tend to forget that council tax rises are a result of central government policy. The airport keeps taxes lower than what it could have otherwise been. In Central Beds it is significantly higher for a worse service.

As to those voted into LBC - it is unfair for those on the council to have such a broad knowledge of policy brief... I certainly wouldn’t have a clue about social care! It is unfair to say those in St Albans are more knowledgeable. That said, having seen planning meetings in the past, it wouldn’t be unfair to say that some of them do not have the knowledge needed for the job.

[Buster the Bear]

When local public services are being cut, as a direct result of the debt that LBC is carrying, clearly something very serious is wrong.

The only end that I can see, is the town having to sell THEIR airport to service the huge debts.

The airport was always seen by the Council as proud achievement and profits redirected into the community, now this very community is subsidising unprecedented debt levels being accrued, on speculation that a new franchisee will assume this debt in 2032!

[pabely]

I too was a resident for over 25 years and had benefited from one of the lowest shire rates (council tax) around.
The latest publish accounts for LBC I can find is for y/e 18/19. Looking at the Debt relating to Airport Debenture to LALL, interest charged then Share Dividend & rents going the other way I cannot see a great issue, they are servicing the Debt, but maybe I am seeing outdated information? I am no accountant either.
The Debenture seems to be mostly covered by the Special Infrastructure Rate Loan Scheme operated by Central Government at very favorable rates but had to be started before 2022 to qualify hence the hast to get the DART up and running before .........T2.

[LTNman]

The question - why have a cap.
The arguments for sure have merit... although for me it is a bit pointless having an arbitrary cap - it doesn’t exactly reduce ATMs unless larger types are used. It also doesn’t allow for free market competition and increase opportunities for the local people it serves.
.

It is all about planning condition 10 and remaining compliant.
The current winter cap is a limit on ATM’s. This is to limit passengers while the summer cap is just a straight limit on passenger seats that can’t be got around by putting on larger aircraft. This have been introduced by the airport operator to comply with the airports planning permission.

The airport operator is not happy, LLAL is not happy and nor is the council but this is only a temporary measure while a planning application is going through that could have been submitted anytime rather than after the horse had bolted. I think people still have time to object before it goes to committee and gets approved.

The link lays out the emergency rules for summer 2020 where it states each airline will get an allocation of seats. This rule has resulted in EL AL moving its extra summer service to Stansted and maybe Wizz starting a Southend service and blocked any new airline operating a new route into LTN this year although to be honest new airlines have not exactly been flocking to Luton in recent years. It should also prevent one off charter flights like for football matches.

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/LTN_LocalRule_3ES20_S20-PATM-Seat-Limit_Adopted-03OCT2019.pdf

[LTNman]

The remaining floors of the new multi-story have opened for half term. Those with even short memories will remember the gravel short term car park complete with pot holes and lakes. The 2 multi-storey car parks together with the indoor drop off area are transformational. The new car park sits higher than the existing car park due to the height of the ceilings in the drop off area.
https://i.imgur.com/vUG9hin.jpg

I have been looking at the original time-scales for the Dart compared with current progress and it doesn't look good. The protect was started 6 months late but even adding 6 months to the following dates there will be some doubts about the Dart opening in 2021. The complete programme from enabling work until the first train is meant to be 245 weeks (just over 4.5 years) with many projects running simultaneously.

Parkway station protect was set at 60 weeks with a completion date of June 2019. In the foreground, as pointed out by a poster, the footbridge supports are being worked on. In the background the Gateway bridge is part covered in protective covers. This is a 53 week protect and was meant to be complete in May 2019
https://i.imgur.com/WxfZmxw.jpg

The new footbridge will be located opposite the hotel
https://i.imgur.com/Jro6mtB.jpg

Central station is down as a 59 week project which seems impossible and is meant to have been completed September 2019
https://i.imgur.com/eWOgRzh.jpg

This section of tunnel has a completion date of July 2019 and is meant to be a 32 week project.
https://i.imgur.com/lsypkoz.jpg

Installation of the DART equipment and trains was meant to have started in October 2019 as part of a 73 week programme including 25 weeks of testing that is meant to start September 2020 for an opening date in April 2021. It's not going to happen and even allowing for the delayed start I can't see this opening in 2021

Luton trains under construction
https://i.imgur.com/j9XjsNZ.jpg

[pabely]

EMR launch consultation on Dec 2020 timetable changes to bring in non stop Express service from St Pancras and direct services from Corby to Airport Parkway. With this comes a reduction of service to other stations to London & Luton Central, let the battles commence.

[LTNman]

The consultation is phoney as the Department of Transport made it a condition of the new franchise that 2 trains an hour to Corby would run with the first stop being LAP.
The council wanted 4 trains an hour so is putting on a brave face but 2 is better than 1. What has been established is that the non stop service will run from 6am to 10pm. The stock used will be 4 carriage 20 year old second hand trains that will be joined up to form up to 12 cars but there won't be the ability for passengers to walk from one end of the train to the other to find a seat as the drivers cabs will prevent this. On the positive side the 3+2 existing seating will be replaced with 2+2 seating with each seat getting a table.

I would assume this old stock will be replaced with walk through trains eventually but old trains linger on for years.

From the DoT.

East Midlands franchise (http://maps.dft.gov.uk/east-midlands-rail-franchise/) then select London CorbyLondon - CorbyBenefits include:

dedicated Corby - St Pancras express service will be introduced from December 2020 with 12-car trains in the peaks
Corby - London service doubled to 2 trains per hour all day
Kettering, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway services provided with 2 trains per hour for most of the day
enhanced Sunday service throughout the route with regular direct Sunday services between London and Corby
refurbished modern express trains from December 2020, with:

increased capacity
more reliable service
improved comfort
passenger information system
free on-board Wi-Fi
at-seat power sockets
USB points
air conditioning
tables at all seats
increased luggage space
on-board cycle storage

[easydan319]

easyJet to launch Luton - Ljubljana 30/3/20. Flights on sale now. Operates M,W,Fr and Su.

[pabely]

easyJet to launch Luton - Ljubljana 30/3/20. Flights on sale now. Operates M,W,Fr and Su.
Did they not operate this route before, or am I thinking of the STN route?

[22/04]

Did they not operate this route before, or am I thinking of the STN route?

Not sure - but Adria did.

[pabely]

Not sure - but Adria did.
So did Wizzair!

[pabely]

Heard today that Wizzair timmimg capacity to Tel Aviv due to reduced demand, don't know if this is temporary, while I was searching for an article confirming there was a comment on whether the STN El Al was going to be necessary at all this summer. Things very unwell at El Al at the moment.

[LTNman]

I witnessed a strange event a couple of weeks ago concerning an Orthodox Jew at Luton. I went into the gents to have a pee and found a roughly 10 year old girl standing between the two rows of urinals while I assume her dad was in a trap having what sounded like a major kosher dump.

Feeling uncomfortable, as did others, I used the furthest urinal and turned around to find the girl was now using the urinal behind me as an armchair and was resting her hands and arms on the side of the porcelain. She was the perfect fit and it looked like she was sitting in a futuristic seating pod. I guess she had a wet arse when she stood up though.

[Planespeaking]

I witnessed a strange event a couple of weeks ago concerning an Orthodox Jew at Luton. I went into the gents to have a pee and found a roughly 10 year old girl standing between the two rows of urinals while I assume her dad was in a trap having what sounded like a major kosher dump.

Feeling uncomfortable, as did others, I used the furthest urinal and turned around to find the girl was now using the urinal behind me as an armchair and was resting her hands and arms on the side of the porcelain. She was the perfect fit and it looked like she was sitting in a futuristic seating pod. I guess she had a wet arse when she stood up though.

Too much information for breakfast time on a Monday✈️✈️

[Buster the Bear]

Israeli airlines are generally cutting quite a bit due lack of demand by the virus.

[baileygates]

Greggs are currently recruiting managers for an airside store, I thought all the units were occupied, anyone have any idea where it will go?

[LTNman]

Greggs were sniffing around the airport when the airport was looking for tenants for its new build as I saw a delegation up there. Haven't been terminal airside for a while but I know Dubl the champaign bar has been closed for around a year. The problem being it is in an island location so no hidden corners for the ovens. Did the last outlet opposite Chanel get occupied? With the perfume shop again on an island the retail outlet was only going to get half the passengers pass it.

[LDNLTN]

Greggs were sniffing around the airport when the airport was looking for tenants for its new build as I saw a delegation up there. Haven't been terminal airside for a while but I know Dubl the champaign bar has been closed for around a year. The problem being it is in an island location so no hidden corners for the ovens. Did the last outlet opposite Chanel get occupied? With the perfume shop again on an island the retail outlet was only going to get half the passengers pass it.

So as being said before, I work airside. There we talks of Oriel taking over the DUBL bar which is stagnant and is mostly used by passengers as seating at the moment. Greggs will be opening where cube is (the luggage shop) and is said to open next month but work hasn’t started. I have spoken to a number of staff members too and the amount of complaints which are made about the old departure space being out dated and cramped is incredible. The terminal is a mish mash. I do wish to see the airport improved further inside but we all know this is Luton Airport we are talking about.

I don’t know if this has been mentioned also, but I was reading master plan about T2 and they mention jetways will not be added unless airlines require. So are they expecting to keep their main low cost carriers or will we see new airlines venture out further. Demand could be there but only time will tell. As mentioned before, newer aircraft are capable of using Luton’s 7000ft runway.

[LTNman]

Don't expect a T2 to look remotely like the grand artist impressions. It will be more of the same with the same low grade finishes the airport is well known for.

With Heathrow being rejected due to the Governments commitments to the Paris Accord why would the doubling of Luton be accepted?

As stated before the council have got itself into a real mess. They thought they were being clever by putting in a planning application to themselves for a business park when the whole world and its dog knows the £124 million road is the enabler for a second terminal. With it not being included in the DCO the council has found out that the council has to fund it and not LLAL which as we all know is the council. This means interest payments on money borrowed comes out of the council budget. If the airport expansion is refused the plan B for a business park can't be justified due to the cost of the road.

The council has now put out the begging bowl to Government and the tax payer in the hope that the next budget can provide funds. If they say no, together with the Paris Accord the councils plans might well die.

[LGS6753]

With the reduction in flights to Italy, and the drop in bookings more widely, there looks to be no chance of the 18m passenger cap being breached in 2020. Does anyone know when the planning application to lift the cap is being heard?
I suspect we will see more normal growth in S21. It helps that all of the remaining operators are financially sound and will withstand the likely forthcoming short recession.

[LTNman]

Two LLAOL applications that need watching. The increase from 18 to 19 million passengers and the separate application to increase the airports nighttime noise limit as LLAOL don’t want to comply with existing limits. Even when passed, the banning of summer nighttime biz jets will remain as a council compromise so they can claim they are listening to concerns.

Personal view but I don’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports due to the virus as Eastern European’s will want to continue to travel for work and for family reasons. Walking around the airport English is definitely a minority language but it has been for a long time but there seems to be less English travellers over the last couple of weeks.

I can walk from the drop off area to the far end of the terminal which is a 5 minute walk and I won’t hear anyone speaking English apart from staff members and many of them are not speaking English either.

[Lee Baker Street]

Two LLAOL applications that need watching. The increase from 18 to 19 million passengers and the separate application to increase the airports nighttime noise limit as LLAOL don’t want to comply with existing limits. Even when passed, the banning of summer nighttime biz jets will remain as a council compromise so they can claim they are listening to concerns.

Personal view but I don’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports due to the virus as Eastern European’s will want to continue to travel for work and for family reasons. Walking around the airport English is definitely a minority language but it has been for a long time but there seems to be less English travellers over the last couple of weeks.

I can walk from the drop off area to the far end of the terminal which is a 5 minute walk and I won’t hear anyone speaking English apart from staff members and many of them are not speaking English either.

That is fantastic news LTNman.
London Luton Airport is now officially an airport that attracts predominantly people from all over the World and not just locals which means it has an important place in the UK's future transport infastructer and can deliver important employment opportunities for all.

[LTNman]

That is fantastic news LTNman.
London Luton Airport is now officially an airport that attracts predominantly people from all over the World and not just locals which means it has an important place in the UK's future transport infastructer and can deliver important employment opportunities for all.

i wouldn’t say all over the world as the vast majority live in the U.K. They just don’t have English as their first language.

The employment opportunities will be there but the pay will not be great and workers will be on 24/7 contracts or worse still zero hour contracts which most people dislike.

[Captain_Caveman]

i wouldn’t say all over the world as the vast majority live in the U.K. They just don’t have English as their first language.

The employment opportunities will be there but the pay will not be great and workers will be on 24/7 contracts or worse still zero hour contracts which most people dislike.

LTNman, why do you keep harping on about people whose first language is not English ? It’s an airport, the idea is that people pass through it from all different countries and yes other countries speak different languages. Why is this such an issue for you ?

[LTNman]

The point I was making in an earlier post is that I didn’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports as many travellers are Eastern European’s visiting friends and family or travelling to and from work. I don’t think this sort of traffic would be as badly affected as UK based leisure and business travel where I am seeing a decrease in passengers speaking English. Saying that I can see a time when all travel will be restricted by government.

The point about English being a second language was that those passengers still mainly originate from the UK at Luton so I would not describe them as world travellers unlike airports like Heathrow and Gatwick where language and accent does indicate world travellers.

[Manx]

The point I was making in an earlier post is that I didn’t think Luton will be affected as badly as other airports as many travellers are Eastern European’s visiting friends and family or travelling to and from work. I don’t think this sort of traffic would be as badly affected as UK based leisure and business travel where I am seeing a decrease in passengers speaking English. Saying that I can see a time when all travel will be restricted by government.

The point about English being a second language was that those passengers still mainly originate from the UK at Luton so I would not describe them as world travellers unlike airports like Heathrow and Gatwick where language and accent does indicate world travellers.

So the languages spoken at airports are generally reflective of the destinations flown to and in Lutons case that will be British and Europeans flying between Britain and Europe. Seems too obvious to be so regularly made a point of!?

I know of Britons, Southern Europeans and Eastern Europeans who are limiting their travel at the moment. I know others who are carrying on regardless for now. I'm told that media in Poland, for example, are being equally as panicked as the likes of the Daily Mail and people are reacting to that. So I'm not sure why Eastern Europeans need to be called out again as being somehow different in their approach.

[LTNman]

Happy to accept I am wrong and that all passengers will reduce in equal numbers. Seems then that Luton is heading for a major impact as well. Does this mean the airport will accept charter flights again if Luton cannot maintain 18 million passengers?

[Dannyboy39]

LTNman, why do you keep harping on about people whose first language is not English ? It’s an airport, the idea is that people pass through it from all different countries and yes other countries speak different languages. Why is this such an issue for you ?
I dare say their English is better than our Polish...

[ajamieson]

LTNman, why do you keep harping on about people whose first language is not English ? It’s an airport, the idea is that people pass through it from all different countries and yes other countries speak different languages. Why is this such an issue for you ?
You've misunderstood his point.

[ericlday]

The reality is there is very little English spoken within the Airport.....fact !!!!

[Captain_Caveman]

Plenty of Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Israeli passengers fly through Luton. I don’t understand why it’s always Eastern European passengers that are always singled out by certain people in this forum.

[vlieger]

Plenty of Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Israeli passengers fly through Luton. I don’t understand why it’s always Eastern European passengers that are always singled out by certain people in this forum.

Agreed. I think it is uncalled for. It's an airport for goodness sake, what do you expect?

[LDNLTN]

There are many people from different parts from all over the world that travel through regularly. I’ve had many Brazilians, Americans and Australians pass through, not everyday but the majority.

The virus is certainly affecting flights. Where we usually have around 1-2000 at around 4/5, we’ve not seen that many figures pass through. Talking to staff, many shops including mine are struggling to meet £1000 and targets set by companies being much higher. There is many concern for stores in the airport atm.

[LGS6753]

I don’t understand why it’s always Eastern European passengers that are always singled out by certain people in this forum.

Perhaps it could be because the largest, or second-largest operator at Luton is the largest low-cost operator in Central and Eastern Europe.

[LTNman]

Exactly, passengers from Eastern Europe make up around 50% of Luton’s passengers so it is not about them being singled out it is recognition of how important they are. They are an integral part of Luton’s success and without them Luton would be a vastly different place particularly in the winter months. There would be no Dart being built, no multi story car parks, no terminal extension, no new aprons and no plans to expand the airport so don’t dismiss them. There of course would be no Wizz at Luton either who I think are now Luton’s largest airline in terms of passengers carried.

[Manx]

The reality is there is very little English spoken within the Airport.....fact !!!!

Well, except that its quite clearly not a fact.

[LTNman]

Seems like a fact to me walking around the airport.

Changing the subject anyone going to Israel is required to self isolate for 14 days from Thursday. Big impact on Luton as most people won’t go.

[cj241101]

El Al last operated the LY311/2 on 28th Feb. Fly Bosnia seem to have stopped flying, at least for the time being, last flight SJJ-LTN was 29th Feb, last flight SJJ-Rome was 28th Feb, don't seem to have been operating any other routes. Their only aircraft hasn't appeared on FR24 this month.

[LTNman]

Under EU laws that cover Luton, if EL Al don't use the slot they will lose it.

(edit) Their next flight doesn't depart until 20th March but with the new conditions imposed on travellers to Israel I would expect that flight to be consolidated with maybe Heathrow.

[LGS6753]

Transport Secretary Grant Schapps has requested that ACL waive the "use it or lose it" clause in slot allocations. Apparently lots of aircraft are flying around empty to preserve slots.

[Spanish eyes]

Maybe we should start a sweepstake and guess how many passengers will have passed through Luton by the years end. I am guessing the figure will drop from 18 million to around 14 million. No urgency then for the planning application for 19 million passengers.

[22/04]

It's funny Spanish Eyes I was thinking the same thing. You picked my number so I wil have to go lower - I think the lowest could be 12.5 million. We probably will need the planning application by 2022 though

[pabely]

We probably will need the planning application by 2022 though
More like slip it in whilst everyones attention is somewhere else!

[LTNman]

Thought I would do a passenger update rather than my normal construction update. What a difference a week can make, as I can't remember seeing the terminal this empty for years. The photos were not taken during the morning peak but just during the day when there is a steady stream of arriving and departing passengers and those waiting around. Plenty of flights showing on the boards, a few last minute cancellations plus no doubt others missing due to earlier flight reductions so I am guessing there are many no shows and no late bookings.

I also watched a Wizz A321 take off, it was airborne just beyond Taxiway Charlie which is the middle taxiway.

Total of four cars plus an airport van when this photo was taken.
https://i.imgur.com/XgaOr1P.jpg

Normally a busy area but not today
https://i.imgur.com/7ppMO3x.jpg

All but empty
https://i.imgur.com/PLGWDV2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fRq0Vde.jpg

No problem finding a seat
https://i.imgur.com/87Kk8sT.jpg

[Sotonsean]

LTNman

Just out of curiousity, whilst you were doing your rounds of the terminal and drop off area earlier today how many English voices did you hear 😉

On a more serious note those photos clearly show how bad the situation has become, it's unbelievable how empty the airport looks. A similar view was taken of the terminal of my local airport of Southampton the day after the collapse of Flybe but that was fairly understandable considering that the airline accounted for 95% of the airport's business.

It'll be interesting to know the passenger figures for today as going forward it's not looking too good especially by looking at your photos. On the news earlier it announced that people were cancelling their travel plans at an alarming rate not only those intendeding on travelling abroad but also those staying in the UK.

It's going to have an absolutely detrimental effect on the entire travel industry this year, alot of people working in the industry are afraid of their livehoods, myself included.

[LTNman]

Just out of curiousity, whilst you were doing your rounds of the terminal and drop off area earlier today how many English voices did you hear

If you want the truth I didn't hear many voices of any language.

As I said these photos were not taken in the airports peak periods but it still looked bad compared to last week. We have to remember that Luton in February was Luton in August not that long ago.

[LDNLTN]

Well, there was meant to be 15,000 passing through yesterday, 11,000 actually showed up. Also looking at the flight boards earlier, around 4 flights were cancelled, all being Italy. I have to say it’s been rather dead up here in departures today. Things aren’t looking promising at all.

[AirportPlanner1]

How bad actually is it? I flew out of STN in the middle of the day on Friday and it didn’t seem especially quieter than a normal winter day. I didn’t get to see many flights board or disembark but those I did seemed to have fairly healthy loads. Both my flights out and back were almost full.

It was similar in Nantes, a number of domestics along with Gatwick, Stansted and Fuerteventura were busy. Malpensa had 0 pax (20 inbound), Venice and Strasbourg (where the French outbreak is concentrated) cancelled. Orly on a CRJ had 5 pax but CDG on an Airbus looked full so maybe low is normal.

[LTNman]

No idea, it was a moment in time taken today so take it as a snapshot. I didn’t hang around, didn’t touch any surfaces and kept my distance from humanity which wasn’t difficult. If 11,000 passengers were reported travelling through departures then double that number for those arriving. Just 22,000 passengers for mid week seems remarkably low when last March the figure for the month was 1.35million

[LGS6753]

1.35 million, equally distributed, is 43,500 a day. Your snapshot could mean a reduction of up to 50%.

[LTNman]

Higher numbers on Fridays and weekends I would have thought but there seems to be a serious reduction in passenger numbers from what I was witnessing only a week ago.

[LTNman]

Wizz and Easyjet flights to the Czech Republic, are about to end for a period of time due to a travel ban on foreigners entering the country and citizens not being allowed to leave the country.

[davidjohnson6]

Slovakia to shut down all international flights

[LTNman]

Now Foreign Office advice not to travel to parts of Spain including Madrid. I wrote on Monday about my observation about a massive drop in passengers. We haven’t seen nothing yet.

[Buster the Bear]

The knock on effects are going to be serve for those that supply the airlines and airports, cash flow will be under massive pressure. The strongest will survive, but with the airline works at times on 2-3% profit margins, one can only image the affect on staff working directly for, or indirectly in the aviation industry.

[LTNman]

Seems we can add Malta to today’s list unless passengers don’t mind being quarantined.

Buster mentions airports and airlines but let’s not forget LLAL. They have borrowed massive sums for its planned airport expansion so are paying interest payments to the council who in turn have borrowed the money themselves. The Town Hall will be worried as fees to the council will be in free fall not only due to a drop in passengers but due to the diversion of fees to pay the interest payments.

[Manx]

let’s not forget LLAL. They have borrowed massive sums for its planned airport expansion so are paying interest payments to the council who in turn have borrowed the money themselves.

With you around, how could we possibly forget...

[LTNman]

With you around, how could we possibly forget...

Looking back on your handful of posts you say a lot but contribute nothing to this thread and just moan like an old woman.

Hard times for all at Luton so don’t shoot the messenger when I expand the discussion to the owner of the airport.

[davidjohnson6]

Poland to close its borders to non-citizens
Edit - also Ukraine

At this rate, Wizzair are unlikely to be flying at all to Luton by Monday

[Manx]

Looking back on your handful of posts you say a lot but contribute nothing to this thread and just moan like an old woman.

Hard times for all at Luton so don’t shoot the messenger when I expand the discussion to the owner of the airport.

Thanks for your observations.

[Planespeaking]

Looking back on your handful of posts you say a lot but contribute nothing to this thread and just moan like an old woman.

Hard times for all at Luton so don’t shoot the messenger when I expand the discussion to the owner of the airport.

LTNman I don't think that kind of personal comment is helpful, after all in recent weeks you have published your public toilet experiences, and your comments on the absence of spoken English in the LTN terminal.

The way things are going the only language to be heard in LTN International may well be English.

Please don't diminish someone who hasn't made many posts, perhaps they have a life outside PPrune,

[Buster the Bear]

Seems we can add Malta to today’s list unless passengers don’t mind being quarantined.

Buster mentions airports and airlines but let’s not forget LLAL. They have borrowed massive sums for its planned airport expansion so are paying interest payments to the council who in turn have borrowed the money themselves. The Town Hall will be worried as fees to the council will be in free fall not only due to a drop in passengers but due to the diversion of fees to pay the interest payments.

More cuts to local services then, or default on the interest repayments?

Some airline commentators stating it could take up to 18 months for worldwide traffic numbers to climb back to pre-Covid-19 levels, LBC could really be in trouble? I am sure LBC have a Plan B, or let us hope so when income reduces massively?

[Expressflight]

I am sure LBC have a Plan B, or let us hope so when income reduces massively?

I seriously doubt that anyone in the industry had a Plan B for dealing with anything as calamitous as the worldwide effects of Covid-19 will prove to be.

[Spanish eyes]

Plenty of scenarios in the annual report about different risks to the airport. Viruses is not one of them. https://www.london-luton.co.uk/LondonLuton/files/b9/b97be143-3b9c-4e64-aee9-366b1f5bf1d4.pdf

[Spanish eyes]

When you think it cannot get any worse it does. Time to start thinking the unthinkable. Will Wizz survive this? Big implications for Luton if they don’t.

[AirportPlanner1]

When you think it cannot get any worse it does. Time to start thinking the unthinkable. Will Wizz survive this? Big implications for Luton if they don’t.

Anyone could go, even IAG. Jet2, TUI possibly have the advantage of holding more forward cash from packages, people booking their summer hol flights. BA and the like will be hammered by lack of premium demand and higher % of late bookings.

[Buster the Bear]

I think SLAE can stand down T2 will not happen.

[LTNman]

Too much money committed to abandon the application. Passenger numbers over the next 2 or 3 years will dictate timescales if approved. Issues for Luton will be the collapse of a major Luton player or lots of spare slots at Gatwick where airlines would prefer to be. Just need to look at the TUI and easyjet operation at Luton compared to Gatwick.

[compton3bravo]

Unfortunately it looks like it's time to close the hangar doors for a while.

[Buster the Bear]

Am I right in thinking that LBC needs to find £125m to finish DART? Good luck with that!

[LTNman]

They also need to find £124 million to build the T2 enabler road and have gone to government and the tax payer after the councillors discovered the build was not viable. Have they bitten off more than they can chew?

They have realised too late that by being not so clever and giving themselves planning permission to build it they now have to fund it. If it was part of the DCO they would not have to fund it.

[dvc]

Apparently on Sunday morning (15th) only 25% expected departing passengers showed up.

[LTNman]

Is that 25% of those with tickets or 25% of what would be expected in normal times?

[LTNman]

Looks like there is going to be a premium price charged for the new non stop rail service from Parkway to London. This would mean there will be no flexibility for passengers to swap trains if a fast or slower one was due.

[Spanish eyes]

19 cancellations on the board today and that doesn't count the flights that disappeared last week.

[Manx]

Looks like there is going to be a premium price charged for the new non stop rail service from Parkway to London. This would mean there will be no flexibility for passengers to swap trains if a fast or slower one was due.

Does that differ to the Gatwick and Heathrow Express services?

[LTNman]

Seems Luton has lost two thirds of its passengers today. I guess that will look good compared to next week.

https://i.imgur.com/bTyfAN6.png

[ericlday]

Is that Departures, Arrivals or Both ?

[lfc84]

Is that Departures, Arrivals or Both ?

its google analytics using gps and other location derived info. it isnt as granular as arrivals or departures.

[LDNLTN]

Just been announced by airport terminal managers that retail opening hours are now 5am - 7pm instead of 4am - 10pm.

[LTNman]

Four cars last week, one car this week
https://i.imgur.com/wWrJxEQ.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/jzEBRzg.jpg

Late morning Burger King
https://i.imgur.com/9Cpeet9.jpg

Staff bus crime scene? No, the driver is keeping away from the passengers. Entry by middle doors only
https://i.imgur.com/5CcTy9k.jpg

How it was.
https://i.imgur.com/WbWBiic.jpg

[pabely]

Level seem to have suspended all Luton flight

[Dannyboy39]

Ryanair are grounding the airline virtually in full - you cannot book a LTN-DUB flight for 4-5 days after next Tuesday as it stands.

[LTNman]

There hasn’t been a Level flight now for at least a week.

[pabely]

There hasn’t been a Level flight now for at least a week.
15th was last recorded flights

[LTNman]

I would think you are indeed correct. With so much happening right now days seem like weeks. Will Level return? I actually doubt it.

Passenger numbers for this year I am putting at maybe 5 to 7 million. Even that figure is inflated because the first two months were similar to last year.

[pabely]

On a plus note Luton's FBOs business is very brisk. Whether this is execs returning home early or them not relying on scheduled services only time will tell.
When was the last DHL movement, they seem to have upped services to LHR so perhaps taking advantage of free slots there?

[Buster the Bear]

Biz jets taking advantage of available slots now at Heathrow, so quite possibly cargo has moved?

[Spanish eyes]

I have spoken to someone who works for a limousine company at both Farnborough and Luton that covers all FBO’s. Biz jet traffic has collapsed so I don’t know what information the above post is based on.

[pabely]

I have spoken to someone who works for a limousine company at both Farnborough and Luton that covers all FBO’s. Biz jet traffic has collapsed so I don’t know what information the above post is based on.
Observed movements, and checks through FR24, Flightaware etc.
Ok so there are no major sports, conferences, film premiers, chaps going to Ibiza to daddy's villa etc. going on but there has been an upsurge of movements, whether this is sustained we will see.
Checking now, (00:20 GMT) 4 active VVIP movements without the ones blocked. (oh and a BCS flight so DHL not totally moved to LHR)

[LTNman]

I thought business jet traffic is massively down from my own observations with just random movements now rather than a stream.

[LTNman]

This is the peak hour. As seen now operating well under a third of normal and some of those figures will be the airport workers around the terminal. Aircraft are being moved out of Luton for storage due to the airports high charges.
https://i.imgur.com/s6IQBaQ.png

[Captain_Caveman]

As of 12:00z today: of the 32 commercial passenger flights departing from Luton this morning, the passenger numbers travelling ranged between 1 and 149 per flight but only 4 flights had more than 100 customers.

im not going to mention which flights were which because that could be classed as commercially sensitive however it’s clear that airport activities will be coming to a halt sooner rather than later as numbers will only decrease further due to more severe travel measures being put in place.

[LDNLTN]

A number of jobs have now been cut for some stores. We have the majority of shops closed. I do believe my shop will close within the next 2 days as the company have asked for most stock back. Looking at flight boards, you only see red with the occasional spacing. I do believe most flights are people trying to get back home. I did hear about the airport potentially closing after this weekend or some point mid next week. It’s not looking promising.

Staff are beginning to stress about finical issues with the number of cuts now being made. If I find out anymore information I will be posting.

[pabely]

[QUOTE=LDNLTN;10721763 I did hear about the airport potentially closing after this weekend or some point mid next week. It’s not looking promising
.[/QUOTE]
That is not what I am hearing from another source but the situation is very fluid. I obvoiusly cannot say where my information comes from.