Luton-9 [Archive] - Page 15

LTNman

21st Mar 2020, 14:01

He can only speak for LLAOL and can’t speak for the companies that are based at the airport.

He says work on airport expansion has been suspended but what bit of airport expansion is he talking about as 95% of pre expansion work is being undertaken and paid for by LLAL and not LLAOL. I can only think of the new apron and modifications to the run up bay that might be paid for by LLAOL. Work on the Dart, which is all about airport expansion continues. Nothing about the DCO being suspended or plans to drop the dual carriageway unless he speaks for the council which I doubt.

LTNman

23rd Mar 2020, 05:19

Blue Air has temporary stopped operations from 21st March

CAP A330

23rd Mar 2020, 18:46

Plan is Wizz will move all their A/C to Doncaster on Wednesday, Ryanair to suspend all LTN operations, will keep A/C based at LTN to fly circuits every few days.

LTNman

25th Mar 2020, 04:45

No Easyjet or Ryanair flights showing on the departure boards for today, just 7 Wizz flights.

LTNman

25th Mar 2020, 12:00

Parking lot

https://i.imgur.com/tnYVA5g.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XwtqfYq.jpg

pabely

25th Mar 2020, 12:32

The contact stands must be much freer now that Wizzair UK have decamped to Donny

LTNman

25th Mar 2020, 13:10

11 Wizz flights in total today as the boards have had additions added. Still strong demand for Budapest and Bucharest with 3 flights each with an additional 3 flights to other Romanian destinations.

LTNman

25th Mar 2020, 21:34

Most of The Wizz flights to Bucharest are sold out. Available flights are selling for close to £400 for a single flight. With no flights on Saturday the first availability is Sunday. All flights seem to be by A321.

Plenty of inbound availability.

pabely

26th Mar 2020, 14:30

Even with the limited Biz Jet flights now, they are outnumbering Sheduled flights now.

LTNman

26th Mar 2020, 15:13

Something was doing circuits today around lunchtime. I was a long way away but it looked like it had a high wingspan.

Teaboy24

26th Mar 2020, 15:28

Something was doing circuits today around lunchtime. I was a long way away but it looked like it had a high wingspan.

I believe a RAF 146 did a couple of overshoots.

pabely

26th Mar 2020, 15:32

Something was doing circuits today around lunchtime. I was a long way away but it looked like it had a high wingspan.
Cessna 172?, back to the days of 24/06 & 36/18?

LTNman

26th Mar 2020, 15:56

I was thinking it was a 146 as it had the right profile but I was too far away to see the engines. Think it did 3 approaches.

pabely

27th Mar 2020, 19:09

Irrelevant now but Feb show a slight drop in pax numbers and rolling figure was 17,999,452!

LGS6753

27th Mar 2020, 20:01

I wonder how many months it will take to recover to the previous peak...

Planespeaking

27th Mar 2020, 20:18

I wonder how many months it will take to recover to the previous peak...

It won't be months, it will be years.

LTNman

27th Mar 2020, 22:36

It will indeed be years, as the world will come out of this looking very different than it did from only a couple of months ago.

Once the virus is conquered in the U.K. that will be only the start. If the government has any sense it will ban foreign travel to and from any country that still has cases, as we will just reinfect the country again if we don’t. Then there is the financial cost to the country and individuals.

While the council will no doubt go ahead with the DCO just to bag any permission, expansion will be many years away. If the airport came out with anything above 12million for 2021 it will have done well but future growth will be slow as the world recovers. Also Luton could lose out to Gatwick and maybe Stansted as they will also be looking to fill a void.

AirportPlanner1

28th Mar 2020, 07:52

The other massive challenge for LTN perhaps above other London airports is Brexit, if the Government continue on their kamikaze course. High unemployment from corona will drastically reduce incoming migration and if greater migrants from the last 15 years head back than anticipated either because of the economy or they’re made unwelcome that will further compromise the massive Wizz operation even further. That is assuming Wizz like many other airlines can weather a long shutdown.

Planespeaking

28th Mar 2020, 08:07

pabely

28th Mar 2020, 08:21

Interesting, I would say more shocking!

Dannyboy39

28th Mar 2020, 08:59

'Kamikaze course'. An interesting sweeping assertion.
Or correct, considering both Frost and Barnier right now are struck down with COVID-19 and there is no change in timeline because of the crisis!

AirportPlanner1

28th Mar 2020, 11:09

'Kamikaze course'. An interesting sweeping assertion.

Surely not participating in the purchasing of ventilators and claiming not to have seen the e-mail despite the Health Secretary publicly referring to it the week before is the very definition of kamikaze. As is refusing to take part in pandemic early monitoring even though other non-EU nations do so.

Planespeaking

28th Mar 2020, 11:20

Surely not participating in the purchasing of ventilators and claiming not to have seen the e-mail despite the Health Secretary publicly referring to it the week before is the very definition of kamikaze. As is refusing to take part in pandemic early monitoring even though other non-EU nations do so.

And what has that to do with 52% of the nation voting for Brexit? The biggest democratic vote in the country's history.

davidjohnson6

28th Mar 2020, 11:33

Could I very gently suggest that Brexit type things be discussed on a separate thread and that this thread be used just for Luton ?

Planespeaking

28th Mar 2020, 11:34

Could I very gently suggest that Brexit type things be discussed on a separate thread and that this thread be used just for Luton ?

Sorry David you are right.

AirportPlanner1

28th Mar 2020, 11:38

And what has that to do with 52% of the nation voting for Brexit? The biggest democratic vote in the country's history.

It wasn’t the biggest democratic vote, that was the 1992 general election. What it has to do with 52% voting to leave the EU is that is the direct consequence of the direction the Government is taking in their ideological interpretation. Why it’s relevant to LTN is that it very much impacts the the future schedule and success of one of the airport’s major operators.

pabely

29th Mar 2020, 10:14

I know the Wizzair AM 'rush' has been down to just 5 flights for a while now and today it dropped to 3 but did any actually arrive today?
Edit, just found them on FR24 over Germany heading our way.

LTNman

29th Mar 2020, 11:01

I have noticed that Easyjet have run no rescue flights through Luton. Also since last week National Express services no longer operate or call into the airport.

Rumours going around security that Wizz will be pulling their last flights out of Luton soon.

I have been going for walks over the fields by the airport over the last few days. Remarkable as there is no man made noise, just bird song disturbing the peace. A high price is being paid for all that silence though.

D7666

29th Mar 2020, 15:56

I have been going for walks over the fields by the airport over the last few days. Remarkable as there is no man made noise, just bird song disturbing the peace. A high price is being paid for all that silence though.

My routine exercise for years, and maintained now, is a walk out south of Luton. The bird song comment is very true, occasionally broken by a train.

One evening mid week the only aircraft I saw or heard was an outbound BA A380 - the surrounding silence allowed the Trents to be heard in full, even at height.

But, as you say, at a price.

LTNman

29th Mar 2020, 16:50

Out for an hour and a half today and didn’t see or hear any airport activity apart from security patrolling the fence. Must be as quiet now as it was in the 60’s.

Wonder if the FBO’s are still open 24/7? Can’t see the terminal remaining 24/7 for long.

pabely

29th Mar 2020, 17:08

Signature only using T1 now.

LTNman

29th Mar 2020, 18:18

Thought the stopped using T2 when their new FBO opened. Certainly never seen any S Class cars up there for a good couple of years.

G-ARZG

29th Mar 2020, 18:25

Thought the stopped using T2 when their new FBO opened. Certainly never seen any S Class cars up there for a good couple of years.

I believe SFS T2 is (was) only used for larger 'airliner' type loads

pabely

29th Mar 2020, 19:00

I believe SFS T2 is (was) only used for larger 'airliner' type loads
Correct, footie teams etc but obvoiusly zero demand now.

LTNman

29th Mar 2020, 21:25

It was the Ocean Sky terminal. What happened to them at Luton? The main apron for T2 was used for Signature parking but is empty now.

pabely

31st Mar 2020, 12:44

Ocean Sky got bought by Signature. With them appearing not be using stands 80/81 perhaps we might see more EZY planes arrive on those? Don't know if they are leased stands or dedicated to the FBO.

LTNman

31st Mar 2020, 13:11

Passenger figures down 4% for February compared to last February. Overall still sitting at 18,223,000 for rolling 12 months.

LTNman

31st Mar 2020, 13:19

Ocean Sky got bought by Signature. With them appearing not be using stands 80/81 perhaps we might see more EZY planes arrive on those? Don't know if they are leased stands or dedicated to the FBO.

They used to double park on the south stands years ago for football matches. Also there is the new taxiway extension to 08 that could be used while taxiway Foxtrot only has 3 aircraft parked on there. I assume Luton still has expensive charges as they charge by the hour.

virginblue

31st Mar 2020, 13:33

If I am not mistaken, Luton is today London's second busiest airport as far as scheduled flights are concerned (LGW 4, SEN 2, STN 2, LCY 0).

pabely

31st Mar 2020, 14:10

If I am not mistaken, Luton is today London's second busiest airport as far as scheduled flights are concerned (LGW 4, SEN 2, STN 2, LCY 0).
Scheduled pax yes, but STN is taking a lot more Cargo now so as far as movements it will be #2.

virginblue

31st Mar 2020, 14:24

Sure. That's what I meant.

pabely

1st Apr 2020, 07:27

Interesting Air Albania due today. Take their citizens home?

ericlday

1st Apr 2020, 09:22

ZA BEL just landed

LTNman

1st Apr 2020, 09:35

Interesting Air Albania due today. Take their citizens home?

Doubt it as it doesn't appear on the arrival or departure boards.

LTNman

2nd Apr 2020, 13:54

A short walk from home and daily exercise has taking me today to the fields by the airport for this construction update. The area around the fire training ground is being raised. The fire training ground will move south of the runway under expansion plans.
https://i.imgur.com/bhg5GRz.jpg

Soil for the new taxiway, which is part of the old planning permission for 18 million passengers. Airport expansion plans would require the land being raised by up to 22m which is above the height of the trees. The field seen would become an apron. LLAL states they need to open a quarry and move 4 million cubic metres of earth that would require 400,000 round trips.
https://i.imgur.com/yzEz22I.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8JsJKwe.jpg

Maintenance and winding gear area. Photo by time lapse and taken by the construction company.
https://i.imgur.com/4xh2EAS.jpg

Taken a few weeks ago this is the first winding gear for the dart train
https://i.imgur.com/mmlnfqL.jpg

pabely

2nd Apr 2020, 17:35

Two RAF Statesman in yesterday, not as exciting as the C17s produced on social media at other SE airports.

LTNman

2nd Apr 2020, 19:38

Harrods closed its FBO at both Luton and Stansted last week

Harrods Aviation is taking “the unprecedented and regrettable decision to temporarily close its FBO and maintenance facilities at its London Luton and London Stansted bases” in response to the UK government’s Covid-19 guidelines. Its two locations will close this Friday—effective at 6 p.m. local time at Stansted and 11:59 p.m. local time at Luton—through at least April 17, when Harrods said it will review the situation.

“This is clearly a very serious global situation, and as an organization, we felt the right action to take was to close our operations at both bases,” said Harrods Aviation managing director Paul Norton. “Using the philosophy of people before profit, the safety and well-being of our staff, our customers, and the wider community becomes our primary focus. This decision has, of course, not been taken lightly. We believe our customers will understand and appreciate the seriousness of the situation and our positive response to it.”

Earlier this month, the company announced an investment in new services and equipment (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2020-03-11/harrods-invests-customer-centric-equipment-services) at its FBOs in response to rising customer demand. They included electric car charging points at its Luton facility and a VIP private ambulift at Stansted.

SWBKCB

2nd Apr 2020, 19:53

Two RAF Statesman in yesterday, not as exciting as the C17s produced on social media at other SE airports.

every days a school day - never heard of the 146 referred to as a Statesman before! :ok:

Spanish eyes

2nd Apr 2020, 20:02

Nor had I so I had to look it up. Disappointed it was what I would call a 146.

pabely

2nd Apr 2020, 20:49

I thought that would make a few of your think! 😉

pabely

2nd Apr 2020, 21:31

[QUOTE][Harrods closed its FBO at both Luton and Stansted last week/QUOTE]
I think Signsture down to 09:00 to 19:00 only. Are any London FBOs still 24/7 ?

Wycombe

2nd Apr 2020, 21:38

never heard of the 146 referred to as a Statesman before!

BAE used the name to market VIP versions of the a/c IIRC.

pabely

2nd Apr 2020, 22:28

BAE used the name to market VIP versions of the a/c IIRC.
It is known as that in Wikipedia but I must admit I used the name from BAe Hatfield days.

LTNman

3rd Apr 2020, 18:52

With travel bans and passengers general reluctance to travel killing off air travel, Luton's remaining routes are often still full or have fares out of Luton close to £400 for a single journey indicating strong demand. This on services using aircraft including A321's with up to 3 departures a day. Flights into the UK are cheaper but there is still plenty of demand.

pabely

3rd Apr 2020, 19:23

Wizzair are still running flights from LGW, BHX & LPL, what is your point? They go into isolation in their home countries. Don't know who is going to bring in the Harvests this year!

LTNman

3rd Apr 2020, 19:52

Spanish eyes

3rd Apr 2020, 20:37

Rutan16

3rd Apr 2020, 20:46

I expected demand to drop off but it is being maintained meaning I doubt Luton will find itself with no passenger services, which will keep the terminal ticking over.

Wizz seem to have the attitude to run what routes they can which must be bringing in high profits on those routes as they have no competition.

A significant portion of the still flying Wizz fleet (All UK registered aircraft are in storage up at Doncaster) is currently flying special freight charters from Warsaw via Kazakhstan to and from Beijing carrying medical supplies for the Polish state at the moment Those are hardly likely to be high profit are they !

LTNman

3rd Apr 2020, 20:51

Who is talking about freight charters? I am talking about the remaining Wizz passenger flights to the UK.

Rutan16

3rd Apr 2020, 20:52

Remember that many passengers will be travelling for Easter to see family which actually makes a complete mockery of government advice not to see family members as it tries to contain the Coronavirus. Walking through arrivals into landside this morning I could see no evidence of social distancing as family members who clearly had not seen each other for a long while greeted each other with kisses and cuddles.

Virtually no one is going to be travelling this Easter weekend since the majority of the usual quasi charter , LCC and tour operators have grounded their fleets for at least another six to eight weeks .

El-Al has effectively closed down as the Israeli authorities has a 2 week quarantine for ALL arriving passengers at Tel-Aviv for the foreseeable future.

Only guest workers from Eastern Europe and Ireland are likely to travel to be honest .

Rutan16

3rd Apr 2020, 21:07

Who is talking about freight charters? I am talking about the remaining Wizz passenger flights to the UK.

No Wizz schedules to Poland , Italy, the Baltic states , Spain, Russia, or Portugal . Just Bucharest, Cluj-Napoli , Iasi,Budapest, and Sofia today . Everything else canned for the foreseeable even Romania likely to close next week.

As I said most of the flying fleet are freighting at the moment and they are after all a life line for Hungary effectively the national carrier !

davidjohnson6

3rd Apr 2020, 21:15

Remember that many passengers will be travelling for Easter to see family

Using Bucharest as an example (you can use other cities as well, but LON-OTP has most pax so least prone to things like one-offs causing a spike in demand)...
Fares on Luton-Bucharest do indeed seem to be significantly higher than Bucharest-Luton in the days up to and including Orthodox Easter on 19 April, although fares diminish a bit between Western Easter (12 April) and Orthodox Easter
Fares for Bucharest-Luton do not seem to show any kind of peak at all in the 2nd half of April which seems a little odd for people who are seeing family just for Easter.

I can think of a number of reasons for this
1 - People are returning to the UK over a prolonged period after Easter - e.g. some people planning to spend 2 weeks with their families so the demand for returning is spread over an extended period of time (possible but doubt this would cover everyone)
2 - Wizz's fare system doesn't show peaks that are 3 weeks away (possible at 2 months in advance, very dubious just 3 weeks in advance)
3 - Many people have seen shops, cafes, bars, restaurants, hotels all shutting down and are not planning to come back to the UK until the economy revives and paid work is available again
4 - People have decided that it's best to get back to their families while they still can before flights are completely shut down

Rutan16

3rd Apr 2020, 21:27

Using Bucharest as an example (you can use other cities as well, but LON-OTP has most pax so least prone to things like one-offs causing a spike in demand)...
Fares on Luton-Bucharest do indeed seem to be significantly higher than Bucharest-Luton in the days up to and including Orthodox Easter on 19 April, although fares diminish a bit between Western Easter (12 April) and Orthodox Easter
Fares for Bucharest-Luton do not seem to show any kind of peak at all in the 2nd half of April which seems a little odd for people who are seeing family just for Easter.

I can think of a number of reasons for this
1 - People are returning to the UK over a prolonged period after Easter - e.g. some people planning to spend 2 weeks with their families so the demand for returning is spread over an extended period of time (possible but doubt this would cover everyone)
2 - Wizz's fare system doesn't show peaks that are 3 weeks away (possible at 2 months in advance, very dubious just 3 weeks in advance)
3 - Many people have seen shops, cafes, bars, restaurants, hotels all shutting down and are not planning to come back to the UK until the economy revives and paid work is available again
4 - People have decided that it's best to get back to their families while they still can before flights are completely shut down

And perhaps LTNman might like to know Wizz have already grounded more than eighty of their 110 or so aircraft . He is a little misinformed on just what Wizz are actually operating right now !

Still LTNman usually has an agenda !

Rutan16

3rd Apr 2020, 21:34

Doubt it as it doesn't appear on the arrival or departure boards.

That’s because it’s usually operating for the Home office and reason for normally going to Stansted; Certainly taking peop’s back to Tirana however most won’t be making the journey voluntarily that’s for sure .

Copenhagen

3rd Apr 2020, 21:44

Say goodbye to eastern European black economy workers who are laid off, and have no social welfare to wait around for. There is no peak after Easter as they ain't coming back.

A lot of crops will rot this year.

Spanish eyes

4th Apr 2020, 05:32

Many passengers would have booked their flights months ago to secure the cheapest tickets to spend time with friends and family. If they didn’t travel they would be out of pocket which is a powerful reason to travel if they can only afford to travel once a year. There might still be a perception that most passengers are young but the passenger mix I am seeing covers all age groups right up to the elderly.

While these passengers are helping to keep me in a job I would doubt that a good proportion of Luton’s passengers would be classed as essential travellers when we are all being told to stay at home. The government’s message though only covers domestic travel so no one is doing anything wrong apart from driving to and from the airport.

There is definitely more people leaving than arriving at the moment so a lot of repatriation is still taking place. My local car wash has now shut down so I doubt the casual workers there will be getting 80% of their wages paid by the government.

LTNman

4th Apr 2020, 09:11

And perhaps LTNman might like to know Wizz have already grounded more than eighty of their 110 or so aircraft . He is a little misinformed on just what Wizz are actually operating right now !

Still LTNman usually has an agenda !

Did you actually read what I wrote? Not sure why you have decided to bring up the rest of the Wizz network when I didn’t mentioned it. I said that the individual flights operating out of a Luton should still be making a profit as they are full or near full. Would you say that statement is inaccurate?

Rutan16

4th Apr 2020, 11:11

Did you actually read what I wrote? Not sure why you have decided to bring up the rest of the Wizz network when I didn’t mentioned it. I said that the individual flights operating out of a Luton should still be making a profit as they are full or near full. Would you say that statement is inaccurate?

Almost certainly yes - Bums on seats and complex algorithms whilst 80% of your fleet is grounded and a further 10% operating humanitarian flights for the Polish and Hungarian authorities and with Romania expected to close by end next week Wizz are loosing a shed load right now .

Romanians are flocking home for sure either they have been furloughed or more seriously lost their casual employment possibly and permanently.They have little money in reserve have no access to the safety net ( contrary to popular DM myth ) families at home worried so what would you do ?

Think your methodology through a bit more !

pabely

4th Apr 2020, 16:09

Lionel Messi G5 was in the news for diverting to Paris in the week but turned up at Luton yesterday on a first visit. Not that he is moving from Barcelona FC to LTFC but maybe work at Gulfstream?

LTNman

5th Apr 2020, 16:54

Luton is showing the first 4 departures for tomorrow. 3 of them are cancelled.

Bucharest showing no flights until 19th April
Budapest showing all flight from Thursday onwards priced at £16.99

pabely

5th Apr 2020, 18:15

Widely reported that Romania is shutting up shop as well at midnight.

Buster the Bear

5th Apr 2020, 23:10

Well, with millions being unemployed legitimately in the U.K, the only reason crops will rot is continued rain.

You’d rather black market labour then? Sad, very sad.

Spanish eyes

6th Apr 2020, 05:15

Extraordinary and dark times for both the airport, country and the world. With just 5 departures today and for at least the next 2 weeks the airport must be down to daily passenger figures not seen since the early 60’s.

For the airport authorities they must have preferred that Wizz had suspended all operations so they could close the terminal down.

I have noticed that cement deliveries for the DART stopped a couple of weeks ago and that the workforce is lighter now.

It has been mentioned that National Express has suspended all services from the airport but no one has mentioned the taxi drivers who are all self employed. With the taxi rank also empty it won’t be long before we start to see the tumbleweed as the airport is starting to get that abandoned feeling for much of the day where the few remaining staff outnumber the passengers.

AndrewH52

6th Apr 2020, 07:08

Well, with millions being unemployed legitimately in the U.K, the only reason crops will rot is continued rain.

You’d rather black market labour then? Sad, very sad.

Difference between being unemployed and seeking work and being unemployed and unable to work due to circumstances such as illness, disability or caring responsibilities. U.K. has effectively been at full employment for quite some time.

Spanish eyes

6th Apr 2020, 08:02

Every year the airport brings out a press release about expected passenger numbers for Easter. I think this year they will be saying nothing.

This from last year

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/328766/luton-airport-forecasts-record-easter-travel

As for crops being left in the ground there will be many English and migrants who have stayed that will be without work when this is all over. Even if the English won’t do it the remaining migrants who have a reputation for grafting will save the day.

SWBKCB

6th Apr 2020, 08:11

As for crops being left in the ground there will be many English and migrants who have stayed that will be without work when this is all over. Even if the English won’t do it the remaining migrants who have a reputation for grafting will save the day.

Without going off topic, they've got to be in the right place, with the right skills...

BlueA330

6th Apr 2020, 11:02

What few flights remained have been stopped now by the Romanian government

pabely

6th Apr 2020, 16:49

So we are left with Budapest, Sofia & Skopje only now?

LGS6753

6th Apr 2020, 20:32

Plus the DHL and MNG freighters

pabely

6th Apr 2020, 20:44

Plus the DHL and MNG freighters
Yes, I was talking about pax movements

Mr @ Spotty M

6th Apr 2020, 21:30

I believe from today the only flights that Wizz are operating until the 17th April from Luton are to both Budapest & Sofia.

LTNman

6th Apr 2020, 21:42

The 19th is the first bookable date assuming that date doesn’t move. I thought there was a total of 3 destinations with 5 departures a day.

LTNman

7th Apr 2020, 03:43

Think we can forget that LLAOL will ever build the planned new apron and modify the run up bay into 2 stands as by the time demand picks up they won’t have enough years on their franchise to recover the money. With no new stands the terminal won’t need modifying either which will keep the airports capacity at 18 million for several more years not that I think the airport will be back to capacity for a few years.

This would leave the council via LLAL to take on the task but they won’t be able to afford it either with its drop in income and committed existing expenditure on the Dart at £225 million with a further £50 million being spent on the DCO that might well never get planning permission from the government.

After the 8:40 departure to Budapest there is nothing for 12 hours. I still find it hard to take it all in.

LTNman

7th Apr 2020, 07:19

Budapest reduced to twice a day. Fares from £8.99 from April 13th on all future flights although this mornings flight is sold out.

Looks like the total daily flights are now down to 3

Mr @ Spotty M

7th Apr 2020, 09:36

According to Routes Online Budapest is as stated 2 Daily A320 & Sofia is 16 weekly A320/321.

pabely

7th Apr 2020, 10:12

I believe a C17 due in this afternoon, but not an excuse for spotters to leave their houses!

Lee Baker Street

7th Apr 2020, 15:53

I believe a C17 due in this afternoon, but not an excuse for spotters to leave their houses!

I have watched five circuits from my back garden. Not all were touch and go.

LTNman

7th Apr 2020, 16:24

From the garden
https://i.imgur.com/7U4HRKn.jpg

davidjohnson6

7th Apr 2020, 16:29

How much of the money being used for the transit connection between airport and train station is contractually committed (even if not yet spent) ?
Would it make any sense for LBC to try to pause any sections of the project for a couple of years to try to delay taking on further debt ?

Boeing737-8

7th Apr 2020, 16:40

Does anyone know if it’s still on the ground or ever landed?

Thanks

LTNman

7th Apr 2020, 16:50

Don’t know what is committed but there are 2 loans needed. An initial £100m plus a further £125 million. There is no evidence that the second part has been paid to the council yet but seeing the work is more than 50% complete maybe they have indeed got the money.

It needs to be remembered that the Dart was never about serving the existing terminal as the airport reached capacity without it. It is all about serving a second terminal which might never happen. The loan repayments will have a significant impact on Income to the council as the council did not charge a passenger levy to pay for it.

LTNman

7th Apr 2020, 16:51

Does anyone know if it’s still on the ground or ever landed?

Thanks

Don't think it ever landed and it is gone now

LTNman

8th Apr 2020, 04:12

One of the touch and goes
https://youtu.be/Eflq5ruEd1Y

LTNman

8th Apr 2020, 17:28

All the touch and goes from the multi-story

https://youtu.be/oMVxkPPGKp8

LTNman

9th Apr 2020, 15:20

If someone on Christmas Day had told me that Luton would be handling just a thousand or so passengers a day by Easter Sunday and that RAF C17's would be doing touch and goes I would not have been able to think of a reason why and yet this is the position the airport finds itself in.

Looking at the 2019 annual report under Principal Risks and Uncertainties losing 99.9% of their passengers at the start of the new financial year was not listed.

LTNman

14th Apr 2020, 04:02

As expected Luton has lost around 95.5% of its movements in this spot check taken on Easter Sunday.
https://i.imgur.com/ol6yz3L.jpg

pabely

14th Apr 2020, 21:29

Has there been a U turn on Signature opening hours at Luton. Their web site says only EMEA station open 24/7 https://www.signatureflight.com/events/covid-19-advisory

LTNman

14th Apr 2020, 21:59

Thought it remained 24/7 since the start of the virus while Harrods shut down.

boeing_eng

15th Apr 2020, 09:32

Apparently all passenger flights will cease on 22/4 but the airport will remain open........

Yahoo!®

15th Apr 2020, 10:18

Interesting as Wizz will still let me book Budapest beyond that. Nothing official from the airport just a tweet from someone else

davidjohnson6

15th Apr 2020, 10:30

Wizz was allowing people to pay for tickets on Luton-Romania while discussion was taking place on this website (ie well after Wizz would have known) that Romania was about to close its doors to those flights

I would not infer that Wizz flights being on sale means that those flights will take place at the moment

LTNman

15th Apr 2020, 11:30

Just means that they take customers money knowing they cannot provide the flights which they then won’t refund.

Yahoo!®

15th Apr 2020, 12:03

It could well be true but in these times I am certainly taking information from “a source” with a pinch of salt

LTNman

15th Apr 2020, 13:11

Pictures can paint a thousand words. All the retail lighting and much of the terminal lighting has been switched off although the check-in area is fully lit.

https://i.imgur.com/F4nuE8q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GI2RP3s.jpg

pabely

15th Apr 2020, 19:52

Apparently all passenger flights will cease on 22/4 but the airport will remain open........
Second source saying this, should have a NOTAM soon.

LTNman

15th Apr 2020, 20:24

Would a terminal closure be added to a Notam?
Wizz are still selling tickets for after 22/4

pabely

15th Apr 2020, 20:35

Would a terminal closure be added to a Notam?
Not in those words but I think yes. Signature, Cargo and aircraft test flights continue as normal. Will result in reduced fire cover.

PAXboy

15th Apr 2020, 22:40

A few charters being planned, no information as to where they will go but they talk about the South East.
BBC web news (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52293061)
Although some Brits have applied for the work:
Eastern Europeans to be flown in to pick fruit and veg

Brexit might be out of the headlines but we are still living with it, so I find this very amusing.

LTNman

16th Apr 2020, 04:33

The reports I have seen have said Stansted. Not even sure one off charter flights using the terminal are allowed due to the seasonal passenger air transport limit imposed by ACL where batches of slots were allocated to airlines at the start of winter 2019 as part of the passenger capacity constraints to limit passengers to 18 million.

The same is true for the summer where the existing airlines that operated out of Luton were allocated so many passenger seats for the season. As they took them all there was nothing left for anyone else.

AirportPlanner1

16th Apr 2020, 06:34

STN may be preferred anyway since I’d imagine a number of these will be heading to Cambridgeshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk and probably also Kent and Essex - key for the earlier crops.

Indeed Paxboy, the social media responses from supporters of Brexit is worth getting in the popcorn for...

pabely

16th Apr 2020, 07:03

compton3bravo

16th Apr 2020, 07:27

Could not agree more Pabely about the slots. I cannot see summer 2021 being a lot better unless we have a vaccine. I for one would not be too keen to jump on an aircraft this summer/autumn even though I love travelling. Back in the UK more or less permanently as I lost my partner suddenly a little while ago in Spain, that is one of the reasons why I have been a little quiet recently as you could imagine I have had more important things to concern myself with.

LTNman

16th Apr 2020, 08:29

compton3bravo

16th Apr 2020, 09:39

Thanks LTNman. I will send a pm if ok.

LTNman

16th Apr 2020, 11:17

Thanks LTNman. I will send a pm if ok.

Please do.

kriskross

16th Apr 2020, 11:40

compton3bravo, I think everyone on Pprune will also send their sympathy and condolences.

pabely

16th Apr 2020, 12:00

Sorry for your loss compton3bravo. 2020 is a shocking year for all of us but doesn’t compare when a loved one dies.

ACL have not revised their published documents and seem to be still current but as stated above should now have no meaning for this year. There is also the question of the annual night restrictions on business jets from June 1st for the summer period.

Yes sorry for your loss C3B, you have always been a valued contributor to this Forum.
Will there be any restrictions this year for 1st June, can't see anyone busting any noise footprints at the moment unless the C17 comes back after midnight!

Expressflight

16th Apr 2020, 13:36

compton3bravo

I would just like to add my condolences to those already expressed for your sad loss.

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 06:44

Just one passenger flight today with all others cancelled as Bulgaria has barred all international travel. Also a couple of flights to North Macedonia are also showing as cancelled.

compton3bravo

17th Apr 2020, 10:04

Just to say thank you for the kind words expressed by everybody over the last couple of days. Back to aviation matters, interesting article in Forbes Magazine saying that Wizz are the largest airline in Europe by number of seats on sale last week beating both Ryanair and Lufthansa.

Spanish eyes

17th Apr 2020, 10:38

pabely

17th Apr 2020, 10:42

Interesting Budapest > Luton remains one daily all through April on the Wizzair booking engine but goes back to 5 daily from 1st May, is LLA closing to pax next Wednesday, havn't seen any NOTAM?
Sofia back on 26th April as a single rotation then 3 daily also from 1st May!

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 11:05

The terminal is still open 24/7 for a single departure leaving at 20:35. This from the airport operator in their Covid 19 Q&A section

Q/ Are flights still operating?
A/ Air transport links are considered a key service under current Government guidance, which we continue to follow in full.

With an answer like that how can they shut the terminal or maybe that answer was given a month ago when the terminal was busier. It will be interesting if they do close the terminal to understand the reasons why when this flight is considered a key service.

boeing_eng

17th Apr 2020, 11:21

I think you'll find the downgrading of fire cover will be one of the main reasons for the stopping of passenger flights.......

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 11:54

With the runway closed on May 21st for a paint job to change the markings to 07/25, which has been in the Notam for weeks, I would have expected a change in fire cover to have been included in a Notam when known if that event was just days away.

boeing_eng

17th Apr 2020, 13:10

Terminal closure now on Notams......Until May 1st

A1457/20 NOTAMN Q) EGTT/QFALT/IV/NBO/A /000/999/5152N00022W005 A) EGGW B) 2004222300 C) 2005010500 E) COVID-19: INFORMATION PASSENGER TERMINAL CLOSURE, NO PASSENGER OPERATIONS AND NO NON-EMERGENCY DIVERSIONS CREATED: 17 Apr 2020 12:55:00 SOURCE: EUECYIYN

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 13:30

Q/ Are flights still operating?
A/ Air transport links are considered a key service under current Government guidance, which we continue to follow in full.

Just shows what BS they talk

Falcon666

17th Apr 2020, 15:50

Just shows what BS they talk

There is nothing incorrect with their answer.

Don’t forget the Cargo flights - are they still operating or all transferred elsewhere?

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 17:18

They were talking about passenger flights as per this heading

We have put together a list of frequently ask questions below about the impact of Coronavirus on your travel plans and what we're doing to continue to provide a smooth journey through the airport.

pabely

17th Apr 2020, 17:36

Don’t forget the Cargo flights - are they still operating or all transferred elsewhere?
I certainly haven't seen a DHL flight for a while, have they all moved to LHR?

LTNman

17th Apr 2020, 17:57

Work on the Dart has been suspended due to social distancing issues after workers were caught in a sting after ignoring all the rules.

pabely

17th Apr 2020, 18:43

Work on the Dart has been suspended due to social distancing issues after workers were caught in a sting after ignoring all the rules.
Spanish eyes Not involved!? 🤔

Captain_Caveman

17th Apr 2020, 18:58

I certainly haven't seen a DHL flight for a while, have they all moved to LHR?

a DHL A300 took off yesterday afternoon headed for MXP so definitely still operating.

pabely

18th Apr 2020, 09:14

a DHL A300 took off yesterday afternoon headed for MXP so definitely still operating.
And one to AMS this morning

Captain_Caveman

18th Apr 2020, 10:18

Social distancing, as being practised between the airport operator and the Dart contractor. It seems when people are at work everyone soon forgets about the 2m rule even when there is plenty of room to enforce it whether inside the airport or outside it.
https://i.imgur.com/AHeNG8V.jpg

how do you know that these two people are not a couple or living in the same house ? You don’t ! Hundreds and hundreds of people who normally work in or around the airport fall into this category.

pabely

18th Apr 2020, 10:40

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/news/luton-airport-volunteers-step-up-for-local-charities-22466

Spanish eyes

18th Apr 2020, 11:03

how do you know that these two people are not a couple or living in the same house ? You don’t ! Hundreds and hundreds of people who normally work in or around the airport fall into this category.

I pointed out the 2m rule as I walked past and they moved away from each other so I am guessing they were not. They were not the only ones, the terminal was empty yet I saw a couple of security staff walking side be side but then they could have been a same sex couple.

The96er

18th Apr 2020, 16:55

I pointed out the 2m rule as I walked past and they moved away from each other so I am guessing they were not. They were not the only ones, the terminal was empty yet I saw a couple of security staff walking side be side but then they could have been a same sex couple.

Spanish eyes, are you a Government appointed social distance Police enforcer ?. If you believe it's your duty to point out any <2m infringment you come accross, then you're going to be extremely exhausted by the end of the day, especially at an Airport, which by their nature, along with any other transport medium, will be, on the whole, impossible to enact/enforce.

One assumes the persons in the picture gave you consent to post their pic too ?

LTNman

18th Apr 2020, 18:59

Impossible to see who they are just like Google’s Street View but you have just made a case why airports should be shut down.

compton3bravo

19th Apr 2020, 10:02

Regarding the DHL flights it seems to be a bit hiss and miss, for example an A300 planned to go to Heathrow from Milan last night but diverted to Luton. On the usual Sunday morning from Porto a Cygnus B757 turned up and then went on to Liege.

pabely

19th Apr 2020, 10:36

With all the extra Cargo flights going to LHR can it cope, how many parking stands does it have 6? Is parking allocated for each Cargo operator so if two DHL are already outside DHL facility they cannot use a stand next to Menzies Cargo? I have no idea but just a thought.

LTNman

19th Apr 2020, 10:57

If they had 6 that’s 4 more than Luton.

davidjohnson6

19th Apr 2020, 12:47

Wizzair seem to have completely removed the Luton-Kutaisi route from their booking system. Is this just a case of a route being quietly dropped following lockdown, or is it likely to return ? I don't imagine Wizz's promise of everything-back-to-normal-in-June-because-tickets-are-on-sale is correct, but the complete removal of a route from the booking engine is a separate step.

Wizz don't seem to fly to Tbilisi at all, and they still offer many other destinations from Kutaisi, so it seems route-specific

G-ARZG

19th Apr 2020, 17:00

If they had 6 that’s 4 more than Luton.

Quick look at Earth Google shows LHR cargo stands 601-609, and 611-616 ✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️

WilliumMate

20th Apr 2020, 08:47

Work re-started on DART. Not as many hands as of late and also looks like HSE are on site.

Spanish eyes

20th Apr 2020, 09:51

Grassed up by a local residents group and rightly so.
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/health/coronavirus/work-luton-dart-construction-project-suspended-over-social-distancing-concerns-2542322

The96er

20th Apr 2020, 10:17

Grassed up by a local residents group and rightly so.
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/health/coronavirus/work-luton-dart-construction-project-suspended-over-social-distancing-concerns-2542322

Have you considered a position with the Chinese Communist party ? . I feel you’ll fit in well there !

vlieger

20th Apr 2020, 12:50

Have you considered a position with the Chinese Communist party ? . I feel you’ll fit in well there !

What a stupid comment. Have to agree with Spanish Eyes, if the construction workers can't be guaranteed the proper PPE and social distancing, it is only right to suspend the works. Would you risk your own life doing it?

LTNman

20th Apr 2020, 12:57

It was reported a few days ago that Easyjet were considering not using the middle seats to encourage flying again. So what about remote boarding at Luton? The buses are like sardine cans and once the bus doors are open it is a mad rush to the stairs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52306868EasyJet plans to keep the middle seat on its planes empty to allow for social distancing once the Covid-19 lockdown has been lifted. EasyJet chief executive Johan Lundgren expects the seating measure will encourage more people to fly.

"That is something that we will do because I think that is something that the customers would like to see," he said.

Even the departure lounge at 12 million passengers rather then the present 18 million passengers would not allow for social distancing and would have to be kept at around 6-9 million passengers to reduce build-ups around flight monitors and pinch points. With restaurants and bars being the last to reopen this will just add to departure lounge congestion.
https://i.imgur.com/RLLHRCD.jpg
Photo by slae

vlieger

20th Apr 2020, 13:00

It was reported a few days ago that Easyjet were considering not using the middle seats to encourage flying again. So what about remote boarding at Luton? The buses are like sardine cans and once the bus doors are open it is a mad rush to the stairs.

This is the million dollar question of course. Surely all low cost airlines using this pre-boarding sardine concept will have to drastically rethink the whole model.

The96er

20th Apr 2020, 13:05

What a stupid comment. Have to agree with Spanish Eyes, if the construction workers can't be guaranteed the proper PPE and social distancing, it is only right to suspend the works. Would you risk your own life doing it?

Yes, I do it every day as I'm one of the lucky ones still with the ability to work, and yes, I'm working in an enviroment where social distancing is nigh on impossible just like the situation with the construction workers. The point I'm making is that a society where people feel they have to start snitching on people for laying bricks is the start if a very slippery slope and a society that I'd rather not be a part of.

LTNman

20th Apr 2020, 14:40

The96er

20th Apr 2020, 14:46

So someone around you has it and they give it to you and then you give it to 2.5 people and then they give it to 2.5 people each and then someone dies and you are only worried about being snitched on. Great, let’s hope it isn’t a family member and rather a complete stranger.

Weather you like it of not, society will have to be opened up within the next few weeks. The virus Will NOT be gone within the next few weeks, so you'll have to learn to live with it. If not, try watching some Mad Max films, they're now listed under 'Documentaries and Learning'.

LTNman

20th Apr 2020, 14:52

This is the million dollar question of course. Surely all low cost airlines using this pre-boarding sardine concept will have to drastically rethink the whole model.

I think Luton Airport will as well. They have had a policy for years of standing room only. Walking through the departure lounge is like walking down Oxford Street on occasions. Luton’s policy of cramming passengers in might now have consequences on its actual capacity while social distancing rules are still in place. With the airport shutting down the Dart when photos were published will they shut down the terminal when the first pictures appear on social media of a crowded pinch point?

commit aviation

20th Apr 2020, 15:33

Weather you like it of not, society will have to be opened up within the next few weeks. The virus Will NOT be gone within the next few weeks, so you'll have to learn to live with it. If not, try watching some Mad Max films, they're now listed under 'Documentaries and Learning'.

Agreed lockdown will begin to be lifted and we will have to learn to live with it but we will do so by adapting how we live.
I cannot believe that we will press a reset button and just carry on as before.
As far as aviation is concerned we will see a new normal develop but I have no idea what that will look like yet.

Even if we assume that air travel is unlocked in some form, will governments welcome overseas visitors straight away? Economically they may want to but there are huge health risks.
I would imagine at least 50% of people would initially have no desire to travel overseas anyway. For those who might, what happens if the virus takes hold again. Worst case, we are back here and these people would then no doubt expect the government to bring them home again costing more money that we haven’t got (I say we as “we” are the taxpayers who ultimately pick up the bill.) I’m sure senior leaders in both government and the travel industry are acutely aware of this and factor these risks into their decision making.

I am an optimistic sort (honest!!) and would dearly love this all just to go away as quickly as it arrived but the reality is that I can’t see that happening any time soon. Most people I know in the industry have written off this year and are simply hoping to survive somehow to summer 2021 when we might see better times.

LTNman

20th Apr 2020, 15:48

The lockdown will start to be relaxed when deaths fall to an acceptable level, which will no doubt be a few hundred deaths a day. That might be fine for government but I still won’t feel safe visiting Asda. The last thing I will be doing is increasing my personal risk by flying out of Luton by lining up in endless queues or sitting in the departure lounge .

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/health/coronavirus/latest-figures-show-452-people-confirmed-have-had-covid-19-luton-2542734

gilesdavies

20th Apr 2020, 17:02

LTNman - Social distancing is an issue that faces every airport in the UK and moreover the world, I don't see how cramming people on to a bus is the only issue they face.

The departure lounge might get crowded and busy but that would be the least of my issues, as atleast you can find quiet corners.

I see the real pinch points being boarding gates and the security areas, Especially the lines that snake around left and right, and even during more healthier times if you are at a busy boarding gate or in security you probably have at least 10 people within two metres of yourself in the queue. The airport would have to almost close off every other boarding gate to create enough space for just one flight to board, and the security queuing system will need to be dramatically expanded in to floor space they don't have available in that area.

I also see similar issues with Passport Control.

The only likely solution I see is people only being allowed to enter security and departures when flights are called, for example 45-60 mins before departure. I guess with the new automated barriers at Security, they can restrict access to security as you have to have your boarding card scanned.

As I mentioned its not just Luton that faces this issue, airports like Heathrow and Gatwick have boarding gate holding pen areas, where you can easily have 300-500 people all sat/standing and waiting in a tiny area until the aircraft is ready to board, also the enclosed air bridges will be an issue for these airports too.

inOban

20th Apr 2020, 17:31

My local supermarket has a notice saying how many people are allowed in at any one time, presumably calculated by the floor area. There are two metre marks all over. The same must surely apply to airport terminals. Would make traditional operations impossible, of course.

LTNman

20th Apr 2020, 17:54

Agree this issue will face all airports. Baggage belts are another pinch point as normally passengers are all trying to grab cases as they pass while standing 3 deep.

So I take a chance and fly Easyjet with its policy of no middle passenger. I am sitting there just boarded in my own personal space when someone comes up with an oversized bag and then puts it in the locker above my head while breathing all over me.

https://i.imgur.com/fjM7cUA.jpg

Then I could come back to this at Luton. This is the queue for Border Force. Sorry there is no way social distancing can be achieved when flying and it can't be achieved at Luton

https://i.imgur.com/SbNXkWe.jpg

dc9-32

21st Apr 2020, 06:15

I just recently returned from a very long haul trip (last month) and for us, social distancing was no issue during the journey home. No long queues at check-in, no long queues at immigration, and being in Business Class for the domestic leg then Premium Economy Plus for the long haul home, nobody within 3 feet of us. I agree, 3 feet is not the new so-called social distancing standard, but much better than having someone inches from us. On arrival LHR, again, hardly any queues anywhere. OK it was just as the UK was starting to lockdown but there were people inbound. We just found that waiting a little made what queues there were more manageable.

Our plan pre-COVID-19 was to have another long haul holiday in 2022 and I suspect I'll be either looking at Business or First Class or even going by private charter. Expensive ? Of course it is, but our health and well being is far more important and if it comes to it, we won't travel abroad again. Drastic I know but it comes down to choice. The airlines won't have a choice because they need bums on seats but as consumers, we do have a choice.

It's life Jim - but not as we know it !

Yahoo!®

21st Apr 2020, 06:41

Unfortunately those with relatives that live overseas, who need to travel to visit them don’t all have the budget to pay for business class travel.

CEJM

21st Apr 2020, 08:01

LTNman, some of the issues you mention are relatively easy to solve. Only hand luggage allowed that fits under the seat in front on no use of overhead lockers apart from the people at ‘exit’ seats.
Board the airplane from the middle to the front/back and nobody (in theory) has to walk past an occupied row.

Earlier in the thread you said yourself that LLA would have done really well if pax number hit 12 million in 2021 so as a result the queuing at Immigration will be a lot less.

SWBKCB

21st Apr 2020, 08:26

Yes - the issues are relatively easy to solve, but it means a massive change to they way things have been. Mind, if a lot fewer people are flying, yes a lot of these issues disappear.

30 people on a 738/320 and social spacing becomes a lot easier...

22/04

21st Apr 2020, 08:36

There are a number of measures that can be taken initially there will probably only be a third of the number of people flying so prices will be three times higher. Terminal entry can be restricted to passengers only maximum two hours before departure. Social distancing in baggage reclaim might be possible given the level of passenger usage. Luton appears to have a problem with immigration though as from memory it doesn't have a large hall where you could snake people and keep them 2 m apart like some other airports.

Bear in mind I think we will be lucky to see 6 million pax this year and 9 million next at best though.

LTNman

21st Apr 2020, 09:06

22/04

21st Apr 2020, 12:07

Good point. The Eastern Europeans seem much less risk averse than others- they seem content to smoke in larger numbers for example.

alm1

21st Apr 2020, 12:34

Just my own thoughts but I think travel to and from Eastern Europe, which is around 50% of Luton’s passengers will bounce back quickly, as there will be a pent up demand to stay with friends and family. Also it was this traffic that was the last to end at Luton which at one point made LTN London’s second busiest airport after Heathrow. It is the remaining 50% that will take much longer.

You know here in Eastern Europe we have less deaths now than usual for people younger than say 70. I think only 2 of 34 deaths in Lithuania were younger than 70, news here still publish details about every virus victim. But we used to have about 10 or so traffic deaths per month which now went to almost nil during quarantine.

LTNman

22nd Apr 2020, 19:13

Terminal closes tonight to all passengers.

alm1

22nd Apr 2020, 20:40

Terminal closes tonight to all passengers.

And Wizz Air still keeps flights to Sofia and Varna on sale. Budapest flight was moved to Gatwick.

LTNman

22nd Apr 2020, 22:59

By knowingly selling tickets on flights they know won’t operate is that not fraud?

LTNman

23rd Apr 2020, 08:41

With not much to talk about I noticed that the hangar line is not as crowded as it was. 2 more stands are now vacant as 2 Ryanair’s have just departed for Stansted.

AirportPlanner1

23rd Apr 2020, 09:24

And Wizz Air still keeps flights to Sofia and Varna on sale. Budapest flight was moved to Gatwick.

Which should give LGW between a 50-100% increase in pax. Surely they would be better off closing the terminal as well. Would make more sense to send the flight to STN who already have staff in place at that time.

pabely

23rd Apr 2020, 13:20

Budepest LGW was an existing route so not really a move, just suspended from Luton.

alm1

23rd Apr 2020, 13:51

Budepest LGW was an existing route so not really a move, just suspended from Luton.

Yes, but they didn't operate BUD-LGW for almost a month now and todays flight has flight number of yesterdays Luton flight. They sell both from 1st May.

Tickets for 3 rotations SOF-LTN tomorrow are still being sold. Wizz know how to not care about scheduling.

pabely

23rd Apr 2020, 19:57

Yes, but they didn't operate BUD-LGW for almost a month now and todays flight has flight number of yesterdays Luton flight. They sell both from 1st May.

Tickets for 3 rotations SOF-LTN tomorrow are still being sold. Wizz know how to not care about scheduling.
Just tried to book SOF-LTN and sold out until 29/4. We know that won't run so will I get a credit +20% for a later date?

pabely

23rd Apr 2020, 21:37

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52397213

LTNman

23rd Apr 2020, 21:51

March figures
2020. 586,479
2019 (tel:479 2019). 1,338,890 down (56.2%)

Passengers first 3 months
2020. 2,919,261
2019 (tel:261 2019). 3,672,189 down (20.5%)

Rolling 12 months
2020. 17,247,041
2019 (tel:041 2019). 16,976,998 up 1.6%

alm1

24th Apr 2020, 12:42

Just tried to book SOF-LTN and sold out until 29/4. We know that won't run so will I get a credit +20% for a later date?

Todays flights to/from Sofia were canceled but at the moment there are free seats for tomorrow. Flights get sold out because passengers are moved from older canceled flights but then seats become available when passengers ask for refunds or reschedule. And yes, you could get that credit. Or maybe they will land at Luton no matter what :)

D7666

24th Apr 2020, 17:53

Meanwhile, down at Parkway station, the first horizontal section of the new station foot bridge to the DART "station" is ready on a temporary staging ready to slide across. It was on the ground on wednesday evening, with a large crane ready to lift it up, I didn't look yesterday, but it was on staging this evening.

Just thought I'd throw this in amid the debate :p

toledoashley

25th Apr 2020, 05:55

Wizz’s app says that Luton base will reopen May 1st.

LTNman

25th Apr 2020, 07:08

ericlday

25th Apr 2020, 09:22

Wizz are showing a full programme to/from Tenerife starting 1st May......time will tell.

Mr @ Spotty M

25th Apr 2020, 10:24

I believe l have a better chance of winning the lottery than Wizz flying to Tenerife on May the 2nd.
People need to wake up and smell the coffee and by the way l don't do the lottery. :ugh:

inOban

25th Apr 2020, 13:02

BBC news is repeating the Wizz story.

The96er

25th Apr 2020, 13:06

LTNman

25th Apr 2020, 13:44

People are just following government guidelines. Nothing wrong in people being scared as that should help keep them “perfectly healthy”. It is those that carry on as normal and maybe catch flights into or out of Luton for an early summer break or to see friends and family who are just prolonging the lockdown for everyone else.

Next week Luton should become London’s second busiest airport again which is something I am not comfortable with.

Mr @ Spotty M

25th Apr 2020, 14:00

The air might not be toxic, but we all need to observe the government requirements for Covid 19.
Just how many are going to risk there health, just to fly out of our local airport?
Just to point out that the Luton & Dunstable Hospital has now recorded a total of 153 deaths, with an increase of 21 on the previous 24 hours.

ROC10

25th Apr 2020, 14:04

Perhaps we need the likes of Wizz/RYR to push back a bit. Otherwise we run the risk of a society becoming risk averse to the extreme. I know several individuals who are perfectly healthy and are now scared to leave the home after weeks in lockdown with nothing but end of world esq news for comfort. Believe it or not, the air really isn't as toxic as we're all led to believe.

Regardless of whether Wizz/RYR want to “push back a bit”, if there’s a lockdown or severe social distancing in place, people will not be flying with them. Simple as that. No passengers = no flights.

esscee

25th Apr 2020, 14:06

Or flights but with very few or no pax.

alm1

25th Apr 2020, 14:09

I think the message of restarting flights didn't go well with authorities. There was big wave of cancelations yesterday and today and Luton has very few fligts left for 1st May and Vienna which also was included in reopening message has now none.

Spanish eyes

25th Apr 2020, 14:17

CEJM

25th Apr 2020, 15:26

I am on the councils email list and was sent a video where the council leader has said we should all follow the government guidelines and not make unnecessary journeys and to practice social distancing. At the same time the council opens up its airport to holidaymakers.

Bit of an assumption there, Spanish eyes! Who says that everybody through the airport is a holidaymaker? Be aware that essential travel is allowed by the government. As almost nobody is allowed into France, the only way people can make their essential journey is by flying.

inOban

25th Apr 2020, 17:21

Bit of an assumption there, Spanish eyes! Who says that everybody through the airport is a holidaymaker? Be aware that essential travel is allowed by the government. As almost nobody is allowed into France, the only way people can make their essential journey is by flying.
Not the only way. Still one train every day.

ericlday

25th Apr 2020, 17:38

There are people here in Tenerife that still want to be repatriated but want a direct flight ie TFS - LTN not TFN - BCN/MAD - LHR

Spanish eyes

25th Apr 2020, 17:38

Bit of an assumption there, Spanish eyes! Who says that everybody through the airport is a holidaymaker? Be aware that essential travel is allowed by the government.

Some will be tempted to fly whether it is essential or not and almost impossible to detect unlike those that drove to UK holiday homes. These Wizzair flights don't seem to be in the spirit of the lockdown as I doubt many will be carrying repatriating passengers.

Yahoo!®

25th Apr 2020, 18:47

I know of more than a few people who work here (for not much money) but have elderly relatives living on their own overseas so travelling to see them to bring medicines and groceries is perfectly understandable.
its very easy to be critical sitting at home with a healthy bank balance and little or no mortgage. Restaurants and bars in Spain are not going to be opening until December so the idea of people flying away for a holiday is laughable.

LTNman

25th Apr 2020, 19:11

Not everywhere is Spain though. Staying with relatives or friends will be high on the list of those going away and not everyone will be seeing family in need. Hard to criticise when someone will lose their money if they don’t travel. Wizz have made a commercial decision to operate these flights. The moral justification is harder to justify when the country is meant to be in lockdown.

tczulu

25th Apr 2020, 19:13

Yep it is true. Handy for those that want to ignore government advice and fly to their second homes in places like Cyprus or by the Black Sea. For many, with long standing bookings, if they don’t travel they will have lost their money. For those staying with friends and family in parts of Eastern Europe I would think many will still go even if they feel uneasy rather than gifting their money to Wizz. Would any of these car journeys to and from Luton Airport be classed as essential journeys?
Good luck with any of them wanting to go to Cyprus anytime soon. Whole island,Greek and Turkish areas completely a no go area. We have a house in the North(Turkish)side,word from friends who live there permanently is end of July/early August,and that's being optimistic.

LTNman

25th Apr 2020, 19:21

So everywhere is in lockdown and Wizz will fly empty aircraft as they want to lose more money?

Buster the Bear

25th Apr 2020, 21:24

Operation Herd Immunity! 18m and T2 is next, or maybe not!

D7666

25th Apr 2020, 22:57

I noticed today, this evening around 20:00, the airport <-> parkway shuttle buses are still running, well one vehicle was anyway. Enough airport workers to justify that (i.e. their social distancing )?

LTNman

25th Apr 2020, 23:06

It is run by Thameslink and not the airport so while the trains run so does the bus whether there are passengers or not.

pabely

26th Apr 2020, 00:01

Just one thought, the current terminal closure NOTAM was set to expire on 1/5 because they knew operations were likely to restart on that date or it was just a date to be reviewed later and an operator has forced it's hand in offering increased services?
We all know there is still a trickle of services to many other COVID-19 hotspots into LHR with seemingly little checks being done at the London end.

CEJM

26th Apr 2020, 08:37

Not the only way. Still one train every day.

There might be one train a day but you can only board if you meet the French authorities list of essential travel. By definition anybody travelling through France does not fall into this.

CEJM

26th Apr 2020, 08:42

Some will be tempted to fly whether it is essential or not and almost impossible to detect unlike those that drove to UK holiday homes. These Wizzair flights don't seem to be in the spirit of the lockdown as I doubt many will be carrying repatriating passengers.

I don’t disagree with you that some will be tempted to fly. However there are a lot of Spanish & Portuguese stuck in the UK and I am sure that they would love to be at home with their loved ones instead of the UK. For example, have a look at EZY in LTN how many Spanish and Portuguese employees they have. Every time we fly out of LTN there tend to be at least one of the aforementioned nationalities on board. So to say that it will only holidaymakers is not correct.

LTNman

26th Apr 2020, 09:04

However there are a lot of Spanish & Portuguese stuck in the UK and I am sure that they would love to be at home with their loved ones instead of the UK.

Unlikely that those travelling home will be on one way tickets if they have jobs in the UK. We are supposed to avoid seeing family members outside our own households. Now there is talk in the press about a 14 day quarantine period for those entering the UK. No doubt Wizz and the council will hope this won't happen as that will also affect passenger numbers as their motivation for a May 1st opening is money.

CEJM

26th Apr 2020, 09:23

That might be the case LTNman but it is not up to us to decide what is essential travel and what isn’t. In case you haven’t read the news lately even the police is struggling to decide what is essential travel and what isn’t. Lots of cases have been thrown out of court because the judge agreed with the defendant. What might not be essential to you and I might be a life saver to somebody else.

ericlday

26th Apr 2020, 09:48

CEJM agree with your comments. Here in Tenerife we have two elderly but very fit 80 year olds who like to swim twice a day and go for their daily walk, restrictions here prevent those activities, hence they now need the relative freedom back home in England. So it is more essential for them to return than myself. We all have different interpretations of what is essential (personal) travel. No doubt they will be on one of the Wizzair flights very soon.

D7666

26th Apr 2020, 12:09

It is run by Thameslink and not the airport so while the trains run so does the bus whether there are passengers or not.

Agreed, and I had thought of it is a Thameslink operation.

I had not thought of it being directly part of the train service specification and/or commitments though, but thinking on it now you are probably right.

WilliumMate

26th Apr 2020, 14:42

Agreed, and I had thought of it is a Thameslink operation.

I had not thought of it being directly part of the train service specification and/or commitments though, but thinking on it now you are probably right.

Luton Airport is part of the national rail network, coded LUA, and can be through ticketed from any other national rail station. Anyone with a valid ticket to LUA turning up at the Parkway has to be carried hence the service still running albeit at the moment 'on demand'.

Alloy

26th Apr 2020, 14:58

https://www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/luton-airport-review-easyjet-bedfordshire-4071049

pabely

26th Apr 2020, 16:41

Where is you dig up that news storey! Hardly topical and from what I would say us a not very respected rag which just regurgitates crap from other sources to direct you to advert driven web site.

LTNman

26th Apr 2020, 17:20

The story was first published maybe a year ago but has been resurrected and republished. There is a point to the story with falling passenger numbers. Luton got away with building poor overcrowded facilities knowing that airlines had restricted options with other London Airports being at capacity. That situation will have changed. It will be interesting to see who will be the winners and losers.

Years ago Ryanair moved most of its fleet to Stansted. Easyjet opened a base at Gatwick at the expense of Luton. Will we see the same again with Wizz Air?

pabely

26th Apr 2020, 19:28

Thus the case for T2 to solve overcrowding. Whether it can be financed now is a different storey.
Stansted was very under utilised at the time and a deal by MOL was on the cards. BA all but quit LGW so EZY moved in.
Luton does/did have terminal capacity, what it lacks is runway and overnight capacity. If anyone scales back at Luton, Wizzair will slap it up. They do have plans for LGW and I can see a second Wizzair UK base at some point. Whatever they publicly say, the 321XLRs will be ideal based at LGW.

Buster the Bear

26th Apr 2020, 20:15

Wizzair are slowly building up a presence at Gatwick. If extra slots become available, might they be tempted again to bid for them?

LTNman

26th Apr 2020, 20:21

Thus the case for T2 to solve overcrowding

The locals would disagree. Can’t see the existing terminal reaching capacity again for a while and I can’t see the airport operator paying for its expansion to 19million which was planned.

The Council were struggling to justify the £124m cost for the approach road to T2 which failed to get past the Council’s scrutiny committee, so the money has yet to be secured. With the Council facing ruin in part due to its reliance on its airport and the money it has thrown at it maybe the chickens are coming home to roost regarding LLAL debts and the interest payments due with next to no income. And who does the airport owe money to? Why the council and the best bit is that the Council had to borrow the money themselves.

Coronavirus: Luton Airport woes contribute to £49m council deficit https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52397213

LTNman

27th Apr 2020, 08:24

From the BBC

Plummeting passenger numbers at Luton Airport are contributing to a £49m shortfall at the council which owns it.

Something fishy going on here. For the financial year ending April 6th the airport passengers figures were up 1.6% compared with last year despite the 56% passenger drop shown in March. It is this financial year the sh!t will hit the fan.

Buster the Bear

27th Apr 2020, 11:16

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/369030/wizz-air-resumption-of-flying-criticised

BHX5DME

27th Apr 2020, 12:00

From the BBC

Something fishy going on here. For the financial year ending April 6th the airport passengers figures were up 1.6% compared with last year despite the 56% passenger drop shown in March. It is this financial year the sh!t will hit the fan.

They are correct - why do you think there is something fishy ?
Go back a month to 29.02.20 and Luton was up 7% on the rolling year so March was well down so the new rolling year is 1.6%

alm1

28th Apr 2020, 16:49

Wizz Air sent an email that flights will resume:

Travel limitations imposed by local authorities to minimize the spread of coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19) are changing dynamically and always require immediate actions. Wizz Air has been fighting daily to accommodate instantly all the government decisions and to comply with new regulations, but many flights’ changes, including yours, are the unfortunate result of the unsuccessful negotiations between Wizz Air and local representatives (this time in Bulgaria) on operation of the flights in the new given circumstances.

We have tirelessly continued the negotiations and as a result we would like to gladly inform you that there will be flights operated between Sofia and Luton in the upcoming days. In case it still fits your travel plans to fly, we kindly ask you to refer to our cancellation related e-mail, choose the rebook option and select the same route on a new date at your convenience (subject to availability of seats. If you made a different choice before, go to our website at wizzair.com (https://wizzair.com). or https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/mobile-app/mobile-app]mobile ( [url) application. and book a new flight directly.

Spanish eyes

28th Apr 2020, 21:44

Lee Baker Street

29th Apr 2020, 03:45

With the terminal reopening at the end of the week it will be more of the same before it shut but after the lockdown started. Expect no social distancing when families see each other for the first time in a long while, no social distancing from staff, who seem to switch off or forget when they are at work. No social distancing by the baggage belts or when boarding the aircraft. The list is endless regardless of what the airport claims. Yes I have seen it all and it horrifies me.

This is the only public council building that will be open. No libraries, no leisure centres, no swimming pools, no schools, no community centres, no tidy tips, just the airport open for foreign travel.

Is Wizz asking passengers if their journey is essential? Is the airport asking the same question? Two cases of no is the answer to that.

I take it Spanish eyes you work at the airport. If you do you should raise your issues with your employer. They have a duty of care to you. It appears you are horrified by what you see. Ask your employer if you can take time off to recuperate as you appear deeply affected. These events affect people differently so it is nothing to be ashamed of if you are struggling.

LTNman

29th Apr 2020, 04:47

Rutan16

29th Apr 2020, 08:03

No one wants the airport to be closed longer than necessary but there is a valid question to be asked when the country has been told to self isolate to reduce the length of the lockdown.

Airports and aircraft are not conducive to stopping the spread of viruses. They are the initial reason the U.K. got infected in the first place. Reopening Luton for financial gain will not be helping the economy in the long run as it will just help to prolong the pain for those businesses that remain closed.

The country has NOT been told to self isolate to REDUCE the lockdown period -Quite the contrary; The idea is the reduce the potential burden on the Health Service by an extended period of infectious risk however at a lower peak rate .

This is a political rather than health decision and the UK government only took this course at the last moment .

Hence the utter shambles of planning ensued.

There is some creditability to herd immunity however requires far more knowledge of the infectious processes and whether the mutations are close enough to reduce the risk of reinfection . COVID19 doesn’t seem to follow the rules on that With the current evidence available though and this IS a health issue of major concern.

Buster the Bear

29th Apr 2020, 22:50

I assume Wizz have a vaccine for every passenger? My bet is that they are operating flights with the biggest yield and load factors, so no refunds. That would mean operating empty A320s becomes profitable, compared to refunding those pax booked? Plus who knows what subsidies they will retain!

LGS6753

30th Apr 2020, 11:02

Most WZZ flights are Bulgaria and Romania - although there are others. Some pax will be VFR, some coming in for seasonal work, some returning home temporarily or permanently. I suspect loads will be reasonable. All crew and pax being told to wear masks.

alm1

30th Apr 2020, 11:05

There won't be any flights from Romania for next two weeks at least. Some governments are more sensible and ban flights.

AirportPlanner1

30th Apr 2020, 11:09

There are some flights from Romania because the first Jet2 flight in weeks is over there right now bringing more farm workers into Stansted this afternoon.

LTNman

30th Apr 2020, 11:36

These photos were doing the rounds in the newspapers showing farm workers heading out of Romania a couple of weeks ago. No social distancing here.

https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/148055

https://i.imgur.com/k4mywDf.png (https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/148055)

https://i.imgur.com/PVO4bDm.jpg

pabely

30th Apr 2020, 18:13

First Sofia appearing on LLA arrivals board for tomorrow.

LTNman

30th Apr 2020, 18:27

Second flight departure showing as cancelled but then it isn’t bookable until 17th MayW67702 to Skopje DEPART 09:30 FLIGHT STATUS Cancelled (NON OP)
Wonder if anyone told the airport?

Buster the Bear

30th Apr 2020, 19:14

https://www.lgcplus.com/finance/luton-chief-were-absolutely-exposed-to-violent-halt-in-commercial-revenue-30-04-2020/

LTNman

30th Apr 2020, 20:34

Good link but according to this council document only 7% of their income comes from the airport while they intend to spend £168 million in this financial year on mainly the airport and a planning application for new homes. I suspect most of that £168m will go on the next payment for the Dart but £47 million is down for the first payment of the T2 access road called Century Park. This road is costed at £124m and that doesn't include turning it into a dual carriageway.

https://www.luton.gov.uk/Council_tax/Lists/LutonDocuments/Pdf/Council-Tax-booklet.pdf

avidspotter

1st May 2020, 06:57

Hi All. This is my first post. I'm normally happily watching quietly from the sidelines. But I'm interested in the reaction to the resumption of Wizz Air flights and I wanted to chuck in some points to the debate.

1. UK hasn't shut border
2. Passenger flights continue elsewhere LGW, STN and LHR and other UK airports
4. Government says "Do not travel abroad unless it’s essential..." but does not say you shouldn't travel at all. "If your travel is essential, see our guidance on international travel"
5. WHO guidance "Recommendations for International Travel" says travel restrictions ineffective (except at start of out break)
5. Despite the news stories, Wizz are only flying to a handful of destinations to start with and probably won't get into double figures for several weeks
6. Just because they will eventually fly to Spain and Portugal doesn't make the passengers 'holiday makers'
7. Passenger numbers likely to be extremely low
8. They will need to follow restrictions in the country they are travelling to eg. only Bulgarian citizens are allowed into Bulgaria and in Tenerife you will have to go to your place of residence for 14 days
9. As far as I understand it, Wizz will refund passengers where travel restrictions mean they can't travel, providing they booked for the lock down (although I stand to be corrected)
10. Airport workers are classed as Key workers "those who will keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the COVID-19 response" so one can assume airports are seen as a key industry?

Thanks for reading.

PS I wanted to back up some of my points with some weblinks but it won't let me because I've never posted before but you can google them.

ericlday

1st May 2020, 07:59

Point 8. To be allowed entry into Tenerife currently you will need to be a resident (probably the same for the other islands and mainland Spain)

LTNman

1st May 2020, 13:21

Many people have become residents of both countries due to Brexit so can live in Tenerife and are free to float between the two countries if they wish I would have thought.

ericlday

1st May 2020, 13:38

As from 0.00 hours on 23 March travellers entry through the Spanish external borders is restricted. Only the following will be allowed entry: nationals and Spanish residents; residents in other EU countries or Schengen countries to get to their places of residence; holders of a long-stay visa issued by a Member State going to the latter; cross-border sanitary or elderly care workers; transport of goods; diplomats; and due to force majeure reasons when justified.

davidjohnson6

1st May 2020, 13:50

Has any decision been made around charges for the DART so as to start paying off the loans ? Will it be paid directly by passengers similiar to the bus and if so how much ? Or will it be added to the overall airport charges paid by airlines, and again how much ?

LTNman

1st May 2020, 15:44

I was told it will be as it is now which is a bit disappointing. So either buy a through ticket or pay at the Dart.

Very hard to work out the length of time to pay the debt off

The target is 34% of all passengers will arrive by rail. 18,000,000 divided by 2 is 9,000,000 return journeys through the airport. This would mean 3,060,000 return journeys via Dart per year. Existing fare is £3.80 return. £225,000,000 / £3.80 = 59,210,526 return trips needed before interest and running costs. Divided that by 3,060,000 passengers per year = nearly 20 years.

BUT there are interest payments on the loans and running costs for the dart which runs into a few million for the first 5 years. Doppelmayr Cable Car is building the automated people mover for the project. It is also responsible for operating the system for five years with an option to extend this term by five more years. I think in reality 20 years could well end up being 40 years, which is why the airport operator said no to funding it and that is assuming the airport maintains 18m which it might not. Any extension to T2 would be a further cost.

The idea is that the next franchise holder will pay off the debt and will adjust their payments to LLAL accordantly so clearing the LLAL debt

Spanish eyes

1st May 2020, 18:00

TV crew was at Luton today probably unofficially as they stayed out of the terminal and took this using a zoom lens of the pier. Despite all the BS from the airport about social distancing this was the reality at Luton today.

https://i.imgur.com/WocY1u1.jpg

ericlday

1st May 2020, 18:10

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.........

Buster the Bear

1st May 2020, 20:11

I read that according to Wizz, many passengers have to travel for work. A crafty worded statement that is massively ambiguous. Luton is certainly on a 'drive to the bottom', in fact, it is a lap ahead of any competition.

avidspotter

1st May 2020, 20:38

Has to be said that there does seem to be a whiff of xenophobia and snobbery from some of the posts on this forum and in the local media. Particularly from the good folks of Hertfordshire who couldn't wait to go running to JVS on Three Counties who's anti-airport bias is blatantly clear. Since when did anti-noise/anti-expansion campaigners become experts on the spread of infectious disease and current government rules?

Bottom line is they don't like where the passengers are coming from/going to.

Simon Calder, The Independent talking on ITV tonight: "I don't think Wizz Air is being remotely irresponsible. These are not in any sense holiday flights. People can't use them for business trips but they are going to provide a life-line for repatriation for essential workers for people with desperate family needs".

LTNman

1st May 2020, 21:31

Due tomorrow

ZB3009 Tirana14:00

ericlday

1st May 2020, 21:37

ZB.....Monarch revisited...Hmmmmm !!!

pabely

1st May 2020, 22:48

One also came in about a week ago

LTNman

2nd May 2020, 07:16

Simon Calder, The Independent talking on ITV tonight: "I don't think Wizz Air is being remotely irresponsible. These are not in any sense holiday flights. People can't use them for business trips but they are going to provide a life-line for repatriation for essential workers for people with desperate family needs".

Simon Calder is just expressing his own personal opinion like everyone else and has come across in other interviews as someone who has not taken this threat seriously as it has curbed his free travel jaunts.

The head of Heathrow has been open and has said social distancing is impossible while Luton is in denial as yesterday’s photo posted here has shown.

Social-distancing at airports is 'impossible', says Heathrow boss https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52504183

As a nation we either want to get rid of this virus or we don’t and companies like Wizz are not helping as it just prolongs the pain.

I still find it amazing that it is other countries that make foreign travel difficult while the UK still has open access.