Luton-9

[LTNman]

They will fly to anywhere they can. The next question is what will Easyjet do as they are meant to be starting again soon. Difficult choices but I suspect like most companies they will put their own interests first which is understandable.

[avidspotter]

Sorry LTNman I don't follow what are Luton supposed to be in denial about?

BTW Simon Calder is known as the "man who pays his way" and doesn't except junkets.

[D7666]

Be interesting if similar criteria is imposed on Easyjet - should they receive a gov dot uk bale out - as been imposed on Air France w.r.t. short domestic flights:

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/air-france-ordered-to-curb-competiton-with-rail-in-france/

That would kill LTN to both GLA and EDI if the French 1 h 15 min flight became a UK 1 h 30 m.

PS
I put this under Luton thread rather than Easyjet thread for no particular reason than I use (well used!) LTN GLA once a year at least.

--
Nick

[LGS6753]

The French government is very interventionist, and in France the state plays a much greater part than in the UK.

[D7666]

Maybe, but gov.uk is going to having a bigger say so in all matters when baling any concerns out - things have significantly changed in every respect, and any money will come with strings.

[LTNman]

Sorry LTNman I don't follow what are Luton supposed to be in denial about?

.

They said they could implement social distancing when clearly they cannot and this on a day with only 4 flights.

[LTNman]

Maybe, but gov.uk is going to having a bigger say so in all matters when baling any concerns out - things have significantly changed in every respect, and any money will come with strings.

Wizz got a £300m 0.6% interest UK government loan and they are a Hungarian airline while Virgin Atlantic seems to be getting nothing. Didn’t read about any conditions regarding the Wizz loan.

[ericlday]

The following is in the media in Tenerife, anybody confirm or deny this ?
UK’s DoT has confirmed after consultation with Wizz Air management that the airline has cancelled Tenerife flights until June at the earliest.

[avidspotter]

Where did they say LTNman ?

[D7666]

Wizz got a £300m 0.6% interest UK government loan and they are a Hungarian airline while Virgin Atlantic seems to be getting nothing. Didn’t read about any conditions regarding the Wizz loan.

Wizz do not operate internal domestic UK flights of the short duration referred to.

That just might be the reason why such conditions was not put in ????

In any case, loans are different to baleouts.

Virgin operate neither UK short hauls nor operate from LTN. So irrelevant x2.

[LTNman]

Virgin operate neither UK short hauls nor operate from LTN. So irrelevant x2.

If you want to be picky Virgin had links with LTN for years and I would call it UK short haul. Now that has got you thinking lol

[SWBKCB]

Didn’t read about any conditions regarding the Wizz loan.

The point keeps getting missed that the current funding available is not specific to related to aviation but is available to all companies if you meet the criteria, so what conditions are you expecting? The Air France deal is very much that - a deal tailored specifically for Air France.

Also, is there a list of socially acceptable major British companies available i.e. those that don't have significant foreign shareholdings?

[LTNman]

With the press at the airport I would have thought they would have been a bit more on the ball allowing passengers to stand outside the entrance.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/01/luton-airport-briefly-bursts-into-life-as-wizz-air-flies-in-from-bulgaria

[pabely]

Who on the ball, the airport or the passengers?
Today no-one was managing my isle progress at Tesco or B&Q once I got in!

[pabely]

It will. I'm glad I'm not a Luton Parkway》London commuter anymore every day on Thameslink to London Bridge then tube, shoulder to shoulder on the train and platform. A flight from LLA a couple of times a year would be the least of my worries!

[D7666]

If you want to be picky Virgin had links with LTN for years and I would call it UK short haul. Now that has got you thinking lol

I don't have to think too hard.

I've been on 4 different Viscounts out of Luton to both Dublin and Maastricht under Virgin name.

But either those, or whatever you allude too, are irrelevant to TODAY. Virgin may have had such links with LTN for years, but the word "years" repeats itself as this was all years ago. Indeed, last century was it not ?

[D7666]

It will. I'm glad I'm not a Luton Parkway》London commuter anymore every day on Thameslink to London Bridge then tube, shoulder to shoulder on the train and platform. A flight from LLA a couple of times a year would be the least of my worries!

I have the joy still of such commuting. I do Parkway to Blackfriars still. Actually it is OK at the moment, or has been OK for the past 5 weeks. Off peak you near get a coach to yourself! Admittedly I have the luxury of being allowed full flexi working so aim to avoid high peaks, but even peak shoulders in past 5 weeks been barely a dozen pax per coach. The District Line that i use from Blackfriars has been OK too for the past 4 weeks, although the first week of lockdown it was hit and miss on maintaining distancing.

Anyway, trains are a bit of a digression.

[LTNman]

I don't have to think too hard.

I've been on 4 different Viscounts out of Luton to both Dublin and Maastricht under Virgin name.

But either those, or whatever you allude too, are irrelevant to TODAY. Virgin may have had such links with LTN for years, but the word "years" repeats itself as this was all years ago. Indeed, last century was it not ?

Lighten up my friend and be safe on your commute. It was a light hearted reply in a world of misery, death and economic meltdown but actually I was not talking about Viscounts, Dublin, Maastricht or even Boeing 727’s or the Virgin 747 that landed at Luton so you have jumped to the wrong conclusion and had a little paddy on the way.

Try again and be happy this time. Virgin at Luton but maybe not since the terminal was expanded but very much this Century. Think about it. I even have the photographic evidence as it was a common sight. I know you will get the answer soon. Lol

[Buster the Bear]

When will LBC collapse financially and then the forensic accountants be unleashed? TICK, TOCK..........

[LTNman]

A council with big plans but didn’t have the money to pay for them so they borrowed lots of money and still need to borrow lots more money to finish their dream. They could always sell the airport to raise some money to pay off the debts and pay for improvements to Social Services.

[gilesdavies]

Wizz Air have today announced six new routes:

Faro - From July (4x Weekly)
Corfu - From July (2x Weekly)
Zakynthos - From July (2x Weekly)
Heraklion (Crete) - From July (3x Weekly)
Rhodes - From July (2x Weekly)

Marrakesh - From October (4x Weekly)

I guess these are replacements for the Norwegian routes that seem to have been a big failure (with the exception of Tromso that restarts in December). I notice Turku in Finland has also disappeared too.

[davidjohnson6]

Wizz have made quite a few changes to their routes at Luton in the last 12 months

2019 included:
Bari, Bergen, Catania, Kutaisi, Ljubljana, Oslo, Porto, Prague, Stavanger, Tallinn, Turku
Seasonal: Verona

These routes are replaced in 2020 (at least according to the timetable) by
Castellón, Gran Canaria, Moscow–Vnukovo, Saint Petersburg, Tenerife–South, Vienna
Seasonal: Corfu, Faro, Heraklion, Marrakesh, Porto, Rhodes, Zakynthos

[gilesdavies]

I wonder if the airport needs to be concerned with Virgin Atlantic closing operations at Gatwick and with BA threatening to do the same?

Gatwick has always been renowned as being the favourite choice for low cost carriers as the routes seem to be more profitable for the airlines and more bums on seats. Whenever slots become available there is always a rush to grab them!

I can imagine Wizz will be keen to further grow from there and easyJet to strengthen the fortress they currently have in place.

With easyJet delaying the arrival of any new aircraft, would they prefer to reduce operations at another base, so assets can be transferred south of the river?

[LTNman]

It was a point I have made and I was condemned for making it.

Virgin have said they intend to keep their Gatwick slots at least for the short term, which won’t best please Gatwick and will be a relief to Luton.

I see there are major concerns about a domestic flight from Belfast to Heathrow operating at capacity with no social distancing. When it comes to Wizz flying farm workers into Luton in a near full aircraft no one is bothered.

Coronavirus: Aer Lingus review after packed flight complaint https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52539141

[inOban]

The incoming pax on Wizz were coming from rural areas in countries with little virus, and proceeding to farms where they would be living on site, essentially quarantined. And they were given masks. No comparison.

[gilesdavies]

The Aer Lingus story in my opinion is a non-story...

If you choose to travel at the moment, you are basically choosing to take the risk of being unable to social distance. Aer Lingus are the only airline operating between London and Belfast, and it’s inevitable the few seats being made available will sell out.

Looking at the Aer Lingus website many days they are sold out and charging a very handsome price on other days!

Its exactly the same with Wizz Air, you can cross your fingers for an empty flight and hope most people are not travelling, but if the flights full, tough!

[LTNman]

Not all passengers were farm workers. So there are no concerns about passengers flying out of Luton from all corners of the country then? I can’t use my local tidy tip due to social distancing concerns but I can fly out on a full Wizz flight to say Portugal and then come back a few days later with no worries?

The Aer Lingus story in my opinion is a non-story...

If you choose to travel at the moment, you are basically choosing to take the risk of being unable to social distance.



Why is it? Why am I in lockdown and can’t go to the pub?.

Remember social distancing is not only there to protect the individual who is prepared to take a chance but society in general and the NHS.

[gilesdavies]

Why is it? Why am I in lockdown and can’t go to the pub?.


I meant its a non-news story, because it is impossible to social distance on an aircraft, unless it is probably flying with no more than 20-30 passengers on board and people boarding the aircraft should be very well aware that it is impossible to be more than 2 metres away from a fellow passenger if they have ever flown before!

I'm not here to discuss with you what the government says you can/can't do in lockdown, but the government has clearly decided to not stop airlines flying aircraft with passengers on.

[commit aviation]

I'm not here to discuss with you what the government says you can/can't do in lockdown, but the government has clearly decided to not stop airlines flying aircraft with passengers on.

I wonder if that might change this weekend. A 14 day quarantine period is apparently one option to overcome the lack of social distancing.
Assuming we have some kind of lid on Covid within the UK by that point then domestic flying would I presume be considered a lower risk.

We have to wait for the vision to be outlined by the PM.

[LTNman]

The airlines are already kicking off about the idea of a 14 day quarantine. Meanwhile in New Zealand they have almost eliminated Covid 19 in part by closing its borders.

Coronavirus: UK airlines warn quarantine will 'kill air travel' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52523320

At Luton the airport appears to be playing lip service to government social distancing restrictions even with flights spaced hours apart while Wizz doesn’t give a monkeys with just an overnight deep clean and flying full aircraft.

[commit aviation]

Social distancing won't work on aircraft as the resultant passenger loads are not financially viable.
14 day quarantine will clearly impact travel negatively.
Busy flights (such as the Aer Lingus BHD - LHR flight) will no doubt attract further negative publicity in the media
For those who do want to travel, insurance costs are likely to be prohibitive for many
Whilst some resort areas are looking to restart this summer, it is likely to be domestic tourism first with international tourism later (and probably after the peak summer season.)

My search for some positivity continues but I am not finding anything much to work with right now.

[Buster the Bear]

More detail on the inspired or insane news by Wizz today. https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/370147/wizz-air-adds-summer-sun-routes-from-june

[avidspotter]

Not sure LTN is doing anything differently from other UK airports that continue to operate tbh...

[SWBKCB]

As always, our primary concern is the health, safety and well-being of our passengers and crew, and our enhanced protective measures will ensure the most sanitary conditions possible.”

Hmmmm.... :suspect:

[gilesdavies]

Why is there so much negativity in this forum about LTN and Wizzair?

Other airlines like Emirates, Qatar, American, Virgin, Aer Lingus and BA are all operating limited schedules into other UK airports, and why is it so bad for Wizzair to re-start operations too, and its not like they are currently operating a full schedule either. They are only a few weeks ahead of other UK airlines.

I think todays news by Wizzair announcing six new routes is a major confidence boost for the airport, and that the airline has faith that Brits will want to travel.

No one is being made to travel and the first of these new routes do not start until July when hopefully Lockdown will be a distant memory and people want to get on with their lives. Nearly all other UK airlines are planning to have restarted operations well before July!

easyJet, Jet2 and TUI have made it clear their summer schedules are recommencing by mid-June and these new WIzz Air routes will just be joining them. If passengers already have holidays booked and the airlines are operating the flights, people will have no choice but to travel or potentially loose thousands on family holidays in the peak summer if they choose not to go.

I am sure the airport and airlines are planning to minimise the risks of travelling as much as possible and will be no worse than other UK airports/airlines. The risks are no worse than travelling by train or bus!

As long as people are healthy and follow guidelines laid down by authorities/airlines I am sure they will be fine.

[Spanish eyes]

Why is there so much negativity in this forum about LTN and Wizzair?

Other airlines like Emirates, Qatar, American, Virgin, Aer Lingus and BA are all operating limited schedules into other UK airports, and why is it so bad for Wizzair to re-start operations too, and its not like they are currently operating a full schedule either. They are only a few weeks ahead of other UK airlines.


Because both Wizzair and the airport are putting their own interests first while talking garbage about safety being their top priority.

Luton needs to open at the appropriate time and this doesn’t feel like the appropriate time when none of the UK restrictions have yet to be lifted and we are being told to stay indoors. Council owned libraries shut, sports centres shut, swimming pools shut, community centres shut. Airport open.

What is happening with other airports and airlines is for discussion on other threads but apart from repatriation flights I would stop all flights at the moment.

The comment about people having no choice but to travel on holiday or they will lose their money is a good reason why flights should not take place if people are put at risk particularly the old and medically vulnerable.

[davidjohnson6]

Does Luton have the power to close the airport to all airlines purely on health grounds, or is it only Govt that can take that decision ?

[LTNman]

Are you talking about Luton Council or the airport operator?

I would think all decisions are made for commercial reasons but seeing councils have closed parks for non compliance they could close the terminal if they wish particularly as it is a council building. They would never do it though, as it would affect their own income.

Number one question for the airport operator is do they reduce the terminals hourly capacity. Without looking it up I think it is around 4,000 passengers an hour. What is a safe amount if more flights start? I am thinking maybe 20% but as photos have shown they cannot handle one flight safely as passengers don’t comply but then the airlines can’t comply either.

Same question would cover all forms of transport including buses and trains.

[AirportPlanner1]

What is happening with other airports and airlines is for discussion on other threads but apart from repatriation flights I would stop all flights at the moment.

How do you square the circle of workers, in particular those we need to keep eating? Despite all the claims since 2016 Brits would farm the land, and despite high and rising unemployment and availability, it turns out they can’t. Then you have construction sites etc going back because a. the Government didn’t properly lock down and b. support wasn’t given to self-employed forcing them to fly on a full plane from Belfast, and probably Sofia etc

[Spanish eyes]

How did we eat 20 years ago. Plenty of farm jobs if the unemployed are prepared to live in farmer provided accommodation and then pay a chunk of their minimum wage back to the farmer.

It isn’t just farmers, when there are 5 people cleaning a car at a car wash for a grand cost of £6 what are they earning? There is lots of evidence of 10 people sleeping in a 3 bedroom slum rental while we all turn a blind eye. Eastern European’s are being exploited and it is happening all around Europe.

Back to Luton. Easyjet resume on the 18th but will they and to where?

[Silver Back]

It looks like Easyjet have put their start up date back to 1st June 2020, have checked a few destinations on their web site and all have high lead in fares even for this date.

[commit aviation]

I think much will depend on the Government advice which may be forthcoming on Sunday.

I have just watched the Transport Select Committee hearing and John Holland Kaye (Heathrow) and Karen Dee (of the AOA) both noted that clear direction was needed in the next few weeks around timescales to avoid the potential for significant job reductions in the airport sector. JHK spoke about a 3 to 5 month window for start up as avoiding this which suggests June may be a bit optimistic. Maybe domestic routes but until there is some wider inter-government plan for opening borders it is very difficult for anyone to plan with any certainty.

[LTNman]

School holidays in July and August will focus a few minds but then the Spanish might spoil the party and a potential 2 week quarantine on return to the UK would be the nail in the coffin for 2020.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

gilesdavies,
I believe you are incorrect with regards Virgin, as far as l am aware they are no longer flying passenger flights other than UK Gov repatriation flights.
They are flying cargo flights only.
Also l would say from your statement, As long as people are healthy and follow guidelines laid down by authorities/airlines I am sure they will be fine.
How do you know you are healthy?
A good number of people have Covid 19 but don't know they have got it and are as such passing it on by touching many surfaces.

[ericlday]

Wizz Air.....
Wizz Air Holdings Plc (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/WIZZ:LN) is plotting a major expansion at London Gatwick airport as rival carriers pull back, paving the way for the Hungarian low-cost carrier to emerge from the travel downturn with a bigger presence in the world’s busiest city for passenger traffic.

Wizz, Europe’s third-biggest discounter, is keen to expand its U.K. business beyond a base at Luton, north of London, if it can get hold of the operating slots, Chief Executive Officer Jozsef Varadi said Wednesday in a phone interview. He said he’d like to turn Gatwick, located south of the capital city, into its second British hub.

The coronavirus crisis, while devastating to travel worldwide, is still providing opportunities for the handful of airlines that have the means and boldness to take risks. Wizz, which has signaled it will press its growth plans during the slump, has risen quickly in Eastern Europe but lags far behind Ryanair Holdings Plc (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/RYA:ID) and EasyJet Plc (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EZJ:LN) in the U.K. and much of western Europe.

An opening has emerged at Gatwick, where Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd. (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/2588Z:LN) said this week it will pull out and focus on London Heathrow to help ride out the Covid-19 pandemic. British Airways is reportedly (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-30/british-airways-may-shut-gatwick-base-in-push-to-resize-business) looking to do the same, and with Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/NAS:NO), Gatwick’s No. 3 tenant, retrenching to survive the winter, the once full airport could soon have space for new entrants.

“We’ve been looking at Gatwick for a long time and we absolutely have an ambition to build a base there,” Varadi said.

Varadi said any expansion at Gatwick is contingent on being able to secure ownership of operating slots, as he wants to avoid taking over capacity temporarily only to hand it back later.

“We wouldn’t want to lease slots,” Varadi said. “You don’t make an investment in building up a business and the other guy then changes his mind.”

Budapest-based Wizz currently has only a handful of flights into Gatwick, whereas it bases 10 planes at Luton with a further 25 flying in from locations in mainland Europe. Since Gatwick is a bigger airport with a more developed infrastructure, an operation there could be at least that size, the CEO said.

Gatwick’s higher charges might be an obstacle to expansion for a carrier that boasts Europe’s lowest cost base, though those might come down as other airlines depart.

Varadi said he’s also unsure that British Airways and Virgin Atlantic will actually surrender takeoff and landing positions. Virgin CEO Shai Weiss said Tuesday the intention is to lease out the slots until the market revives and a return to Gatwick becomes viable.

Wizz sought to establish itself as a force at Gatwick last year, when it was a contender for slots from failed Thomas Cook Group Plc (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/TCG:LN). Those were bought by EasyJet, Gatwick’s biggest operator, while positions vacated by Monarch Airlines (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/4229Z:LN) in 2017 went to British Airways owner IAG SA (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IAG:LN) after Wizz had bid.

Business at Gatwick was booming before the coronavirus crisis crushed demand and prompted groundings of entire airline fleets. The airport, traditionally a leisure hub, had aspired to snag some of Heathrow’s full-service passengers, with French owner Vinci SA (https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/DG:FP) seeking to convert an emergency runway for regular use.

Credit Bloomberg

[22/04]

Luton seems to traditionally grow airlines that move off to LGW - over the years Court Line, Britannia, Monarch, and Easy have all drifted away in that direction for their London traffic. It is possible that Luton will see the biggest passenger fall after Southend in the short term, I think, worst case being only a secondary base for Easy and Wizzair and very little else.

[Buster the Bear]

Could this dilute the Luton operation?

[SWBKCB]

Could this dilute the Luton operation?

Wizz, Europe’s third-biggest discounter, is keen to expand its U.K. business beyond a base at Luton, north of London, if it can get hold of the operating slots, Chief Executive Officer Jozsef Varadi said Wednesday in a phone interview. He said he’d like to turn Gatwick, located south of the capital city, into its second British hub.

They don't seem keen on taking a step back - may be of benefit as the brand becomes better known?

[LTNman]

When Easyjet ramped up its Gatwick operations years ago Luton lost ground. It is only in recent years after an agreement that Easyjet increased its presence at Luton probably in part due to not having enough slots at Gatwick.

If Wizz gains enough slots at Gatwick any expansion that would have come Luton’s way will move south of the Thames. Not good for the Council that wants to double passenger numbers with an existing terminal built on the cheap by a franchise holder that was never interested in building quality but just wanted more floor space in the belief that passengers had no choice.

[pabely]

When Easyjet ramped up its Gatwick operations years ago Luton lost ground. It is only in recent years after an agreement that Easyjet increased its presence at Luton probably in part due to not having enough slots at Gatwick.

If Wizz gains enough slots at Gatwick any expansion that would have come Luton’s way will move south of the Thames. Not good for the Council that wants to double passenger numbers with an existing terminal built on the cheap by a franchise holder that was never interested in building quality but just wanted more floor space in the belief that passengers had no choice.
I can't see any loss at Luton, in 2/3 years time things would be back to where they were with slots being prized again. Yes some of their popular routes might get watered down but this will just open up other opportunities in new routes. Test them at Luton and it they work replicate at Gatwick. Wizzair have so many new frames arriving they will need to be based somewhere, unlike EZY they have not switched the taps off for 18 months.

[LTNman]

It is impossible to predict. Wizz could have a major base at Gatwick. We could be in a 1930’s style depression. We will be paying off eye watering national debt. There might not be a vaccine for Corona 19. We will be truly out of the EU so what will that do to traffic from Eastern Europe and Gatwick should be opening up its Emergency runway for short haul flights.

[gilesdavies]

Even though I wrote the other day Luton could possible face issues if other airlines move to Gatwick, but Im not so sure now after thinking about it.

While Wizz might be vying for slots at Gatwick, I am sure easyJet will put up a battle too and ensure they get an opportunity to further expand too and maintain their fortress...

Even if Wizz did grab a load of slots, people need to remember they have over 200+ aircraft on order and these need to be deployed somewhere, I'm not sure Luton would be that badly affected, and possibly run simultaneous from both airports. Also Gatwick boasts the longer runway which could accomodate a London to Abu Dhabi route, with the new A321XLRs on order and you never know some US flights too?!

I'm not sure a 239 seat A321XLR loaded up for a 7-8 hour flight could take off from Luton?

If easyJet were to expand further at LGW, they have deferred new Airbus deliveries for the moment, so would need to be sourced from elsewhere in the fleet network... I wonder if it could be used as an opportunity to consolidate London from four bases to three? The Stansted base in recent years seems to have fallen out of favour, and has been stagnent for years and if I recall has been reduced in recent time with the odd Airbus being moved to Southend...

Would it make sense to close the Stansted base, move the odd route which isn't currently flown from LTN or SEN to either, and move the STN aircraft to south of the river?

While we all cast pur opinions, it could be possible BA refuse to sell their slots and instead start low cost operations with their IAG brands Vueling or Level. Also never write off Jet2, they might swoop into LGW, however they have nearly had all the new Boeing 737-800's delivered now, but I guess there will be a big market of second hand aircraft available soon.

[mariofly12]

Why close STN ops and not the much smaller and runway restricted SEN?

[Buster the Bear]

T2 seems a great idea. I can hear the guillotine falling in George St as the locals, faced with cuts in services and increased Council Tax, revolt!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8293089/London-Heathrow-runway-table-decade.html

[gilesdavies]

Time to cheer up the thread and have some fun, for you people with lots of time to spare!
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/867x1200/96370514_2870899279630508_8912183845030199296_o_494ef382d568 5ae9e6b782f8ced5736ed190ea6b.jpg

[LTNman]

Why close STN ops and not the much smaller and runway restricted SEN?

Also SEN shuts overnight which doesn’t help. They have got to be the most vulnerable airport out of the 6 airports, which is a shame as they were really going places.

Looks like the council will be holding an emergency budget in July.

The impact of coronavirus means our airport company has not been receiving any air passenger income so has been unable to pass on money to the council which we rely upon so heavily to fund many of your vital frontline services.

Plans are underway to prepare an emergency budget in the summer where myself and other councillors will be forced to agree to extremely difficult cuts to key services unless our request for immediate cash is successful.



Find it hard to see how the planned £124 million access road to T2 is going to be built when it was being funded by the council when the council can’t fund social services.

[pamann]

Why close STN ops and not the much smaller and runway restricted SEN?

Agree. Plus Stansted features key domestic routes such as BFS, GLA & EDI. Southend is pretty much pure leisure. Certainly interesting times ahead. I think all airports will take a battering of some degree. Might make them more pleasant with fewer people using them. Southend’s USP may just become redundant.

[Spanish eyes]

Well I said Wizzair were bringing people into Luton to stay with friends and family by all the kissing and cuddling going on in arrivals and now Wizz admit to it. For those that are not at work today and following government advice just remember what is going on at Luton Airport as you stay at home on this fine sunny day.

In an interview with the BBC, Mr Váradi suggested that some people are now flying to visit relatives, to their second homes or because "they just want to break out of the current lockdown".

But Wizz Air isn't quizzing passengers about their reasons for travel.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52580950?fbclid=IwAR3lbNIHJ6KV3AZuzEzhu6flzifVQ4oeJJ8MZjZLJ8 ARHZzqYh7Ggsf7zQI

[AirportPlanner1]

Agree. Plus Stansted features key domestic routes such as BFS, GLA & EDI. Southend is pretty much pure leisure. Certainly interesting times ahead. I think all airports will take a battering of some degree. Might make them more pleasant with fewer people using them. Southend’s USP may just become redundant.

Stansted would go as a base before Southend. A lot of outsiders don’t appreciate Southend’s value to the locals, and remember there are a lot of them and they have money. Plus no matter what people say it is a London airport. It’s ease and convenience makes it a sort of budget City, true in the couple of years to come STN’s (and LGW, LTN) terminal might be much less congested but that doesn’t end the long walk or bus from the car, the long walk through the terminal, the transit. Certainly until Ryanair showed up all evidence was yields at Southend on the core routes were very good, mostly fares were higher than equivalents out of LGW/LTN/STN. The operation limits haven’t been a particular issue, I mean this will be the 9th year of operation and they’re still around.

Most of STN’s domestics are operated by aircraft based elsewhere anyway.

[advent]

Seems incredible that Wizz can announce via the abBC they will be operating to TFS tomorrow .. Saturday 9th.

This is all well and good except, they fail to mention that unless their passengers hold a green residency certificate they will be denied landing into the Canary Islands until at least Mid June !

[Curious Pax]

Well I said Wizzair were bringing people into Luton to stay with friends and family by all the kissing and cuddling going on in arrivals and now Wizz admit to it. For those that are not at work today and following government advice just remember what is going on at Luton Airport as you stay at home on this fine sunny day.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52580950?fbclid=IwAR3lbNIHJ6KV3AZuzEzhu6flzifVQ4oeJJ8MZjZLJ8 ARHZzqYh7Ggsf7zQI

Surely it’s between the passengers and the UK authorities to sort out? Wizz can’t seriously be expected to police the reasons for travel. “Why are you travelling to the UK?”, “veg picking”, “ok, next....”. You’re not expecting bus drivers to grill all their passengers for their reason for travelling I presume?

[AirportPlanner1]

Not sure how it was policed but Loganair made clear only pax with proof of key worker status or other valid essential reason would be allowed to travel. Perhaps easier with 30-50 seaters but no reason it couldn’t be done with the passport check...eg hand over your job offer letter with your boarding card and passport.

[LTNman]

Well they could do more. If a passenger wants to fly to a country that requires a visa the airline wants the details so they don't have to fly the same passenger back on the next flight. Wizz don't even ask any questions about reasons for travel on their booking engine via tick box answers but neither do any others I guess. The difference for Wizz it they have now finally admitted what we all knew and that they are breaching UK regulations because there is money to be made.

[FRatSTN]

Only some of the STN domestics are away based, mostly GLA and EDI, but by no means all. In traffic terms STN is still bigger than LPL, GLA, NCL and SEN, so it's not insignificant as it may seem.

EZY, a company that's success is founded upon its dominance in some the largest, slot constrained airports in Europe, would preserve SEN above all else because of it's small size and convenience, I think not.

Frankly, I dont think EZY ever expected FR being able to get into SEN. I wouldn't be surprised actually if EZY didn't renew a contract with SEN (in 2023?) when the current expires. On the subject of LTN, which is what we ought to be talking about here, wouldn't have thought any uplift in LGW would cause too much damage. More likely aircraft would be sourced by other less profitable routes across the network.

[AirportPlanner1]

Well they could do more. If a passenger wants to fly to a country that requires a visa the airline wants the details so they don't have to fly the same passenger back on the next flight. Wizz don't even ask any questions about reasons for travel on their booking engine via tick box answers but neither do any others I guess. The difference for Wizz it they have now finally admitted what we all knew and that they are breaching UK regulations because there is money to be made.

You never get asked about visas when booking and you don’t even hand it to the airline until you’re at the airport or gate, unless explicitly required in advance. So valid reason for travel is the same principle, like a visa if you don’t have it tough luck. Wizz keep the money anyway, it’s the passengers problem not theirs.

[commit aviation]

You never get asked about visas when booking and you don’t even hand it to the airline until you’re at the airport or gate, unless explicitly required in advance. So valid reason for travel is the same principle, like a visa if you don’t have it tough luck. Wizz keep the money anyway, it’s the passengers problem not theirs.

Unless the rules have changed, that's not entirely accurate. If a passenger is required to have a visa to enter a country and doesn't, the carrier who brought them will be required to remove them, will likely be fined for the contravention and any costs incurred whilst the individual is held. May vary on a country by country basis but always used to be the case.

[ericlday]

From Wizz website....During the online check-in process you might be requested to provide visa details on certain routes. If no visa is required for your destination, just fill in the field with xxxxx characters.

[ericlday]

The Canary Islands will be the first destination for flights with passengers monitored by a secure health application called Hi + Card and free of Covid-19.

This was transmitted today by the Director-General of the World Tourism Organization, UNWTO, Zurab Pololikashvili to the Tourism Minister of the Canary Islands Government, Yaiza Castilla, who thanked him for this “great news”
Hi+ Card
hi + Card is part of the solutions that the World Tourism Organization (UNWTO) is supporting based on the commitment made with the Government of the Canary Islands to help the recovery of tourism in the world.

It is a Canarian initiative, global in scope, linked to Turisfera the Canary Islands Business Innovation cluster, and launched by Air Institute and Tourism Data Driven Solutions (TDDS) in collaboration with the World Tourism Organization (UNWTO)

[AirportPlanner1]

Unless the rules have changed, that's not entirely accurate. If a passenger is required to have a visa to enter a country and doesn't, the carrier who brought them will be required to remove them, will likely be fined for the contravention and any costs incurred whilst the individual is held. May vary on a country by country basis but always used to be the case.

That is if the airline has carried them without appropriately checking their eligibility to enter. That’s not the case if the passenger has presented fraudulent documents. The onus is on the passenger to present themselves with the correct documents for travel.

[pabely]

All this flack about Wizzair & LLA and here comes RYR doing the samefrom STN & DUB https://www.ryanair.com/content/dam/ryanair/help-centre-pdfs/EN_07_May_Customer_Notice-Covid19.pdf

[avidspotter]

pabely yep. Anyone would think some people here have another agenda :8 Wizz have certainly done a good job grabbing the headlines given they never actually stopped flying in the UK and others continue to do the same elsewhere.

[ericlday]

Wizzair have certainly provided a much needed direct link to the uk from Tenerife, despite media trying their utmost to condemn it and in preference pushing the 'one stop' Iberia/BA link via the mainland. Lets hope they continue the service for the newly 'released' inhabitants of Tenerife.

[pabely]

M1 J11A A6 Link (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/politics/dismay-luton-borough-council-high-court-rejects-judicial-review-over-m1-a6-road-link-2849461?amp)

[LTNman]

M1 J11A A6 Link (https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/politics/dismay-luton-borough-council-high-court-rejects-judicial-review-over-m1-a6-road-link-2849461?amp)

LBC initially threatened to seek a judicial review in two letters sent to CBC, and previously warned that “traffic movements will be drawn through the north Luton urban area”.

Don't you just love this council who take hypocrisy to whole new levels. Their main complaint is that the new road will cause extra traffic to pass through the council estates of Marsh Farm causing extra traffic and pollution yet Luton Borough Council propose to use local residential roads in the east of Luton to get traffic from the A1M and A505 to Terminal 2.

Also what they don't mention is that this road they claim they don't want will link up eventually to the new proposed dual carriageway to Terminal 2 from New Airport Way so making half a ring road from junction 10 of the M1 to junction 11A of the M1.With passenger numbers decimated, the council’s airport company London Luton Airport Limited (LLAL) is no longer receiving air traveller income.

Councillors will be forced to agree to "extremely difficult cuts" to key services unless a desperate plea to the government for £50m emergency revenue funding is successful.

More bull from the council as they have half a billion in reserves they don't want to touch and their airport income is extra income other councils would not get.

[AirportPlanner1]

All this flack about Wizzair & LLA and here comes RYR doing the samefrom STN & DUB https://www.ryanair.com/content/dam/ryanair/help-centre-pdfs/EN_07_May_Customer_Notice-Covid19.pdf

All those routes except STN-Bucharest, Porto and Sofia have been operated throughout. Never stopped. On some days the FR to DUB has been LGW’s only flight. I guess the difference between FR and Wizz is the former has made clear its for essential travel whereas the latter will take anyone.

[LTNman]

You can’t social distance on a half full aircraft. Does essential travel mean ignoring the risk because someone thinks their journey is essential. I would suspect most journeys are not essential particularly the destinations on offer from Luton.

Repatriation flights are different but then repatriation flights don’t offer a 3 times a day service during a lockdown.

[AirportPlanner1]

You can’t social distance on a half full aircraft. Does essential travel mean ignoring the risk because someone thinks their journey is essential. I would suspect most journeys are not essential particularly the destinations on offer from Luton.

Repatriation flights are different but then repatriation flights don’t offer a 3 times a day service during a lockdown.

I suspect you’re right about Luton given the destinations but there is greater merit in the STN offer overall, they are more strategic. Eindhoven at first glance looks odd but it’s not too far from a number of major centres - Amsterdam, Brussels, Düsseldorf/Rhine-Ruhr. UK-Ireland is clearly important, some key workers shuttling back and forth. London-Berlin a key link. Budapest and Lisbon probably more for workers - either those returning home after being furloughed or now coming for farm jobs etc - but a few times a week is clearly more reasonable than 3x daily.

[avidspotter]

Not sure how you can make a judgement about why people are travelling based solely on the destination LTNman? I suppose people from Eastern Europe don't have family emergencies or need to travel to/from the UK from work.

The problem is not the airports or the airlines but Government policy which has been confusing and unclear. The Government has that it is a personal decision as to what is essential travel and is up to individuals to decide. Look up Raab's statement from March 17 if you don't believe me.

[LTNman]

I suppose people from Eastern Europe don't have family emergencies or need to travel to/from the UK from work.

Your comment should not target Eastern Europeans just because they are Eastern Europeans but Europeans in general, as the same point would cover people travelling to and from Tenerife, Portugal, Israel and Cyprus.

With quarantines set to be introduced in the UK and quarantines coming into force in Spain at the weekend it will be interesting to see if those people needing to travel for family emergencies and other essential reasons still bother to travel or whether the emergency can wait until the quarantine ends. That is assuming the quarantine is followed rather than for convenience ignored.

A single fare on the flight to Israel tomorrow is £504 so I expect it will be standing room only. While Wizz will be making money out of that flight I can't see them selling many tickets on their new Luton services any time soon unless the quarantine is short lived.

These are indeed black days for Luton and aviation in general. With these quarantine rules this would end what is remaining of Luton's Biz jet traffic.

[LTNman]

The airport has had plenty of opportunities to fly their drone over the airport including the runway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVOTp1kEIY

[22/04]

Are those numbers still scheduled to change to 07/25

[FRatSTN]

Q) EGTT/QFALT/IV/NBO /A /000/999/5152N00022W
A) EGGW
B) 20/05/21 01:30 C) 20/05/21 04:45
D) 0130-0230 0330-0445
E) A ZERO FLOW RATE CAN BE EXPECTED TO ALLOW WIP DUE TO RUNWAY REDESIGNATION. THE AIRPORT MAY BE MADE AVAILABLE WITH 20 MINUTES NOTICE FOLLOWING CO-ORDINATION WITH THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY.

Q) EGTT/QFALC/IV/NBO /A /000/999/5152N00022W
A) EGGW
B) 20/05/20 23:00 C) 20/05/21 00:00
E) AIRFIELD CLOSED TO ALL MOVEMENTS TO FACILITATE THE CHANGE IN THE RUNWAY REDESIGNATION FROM 26/08 TO 25/07

As per the above NOTAMs, still in effect, the runway redesignation is still due to take place next week on the night of the 20th-21st May.

[22/04]

Thanks - that might be a historic video then

[LTNman]

The Dart Parkway station footbridge now crosses the railway tracks.
https://i.imgur.com/xyylDvL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GvtoGUc.jpg

The cutting under Taxiway Bravo now has a roof and is being filled in.
https://i.imgur.com/6fPbeu1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qysERSO.jpg

The section of track by the station now also has a roof which completes the tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/CK302Y8.jpg

The passenger route from the drop off zone is being prepared for concrete and will cross the station entrance. What looks like the ticket hall is under construction.
https://i.imgur.com/wXmyV0U.jpg

The maintenance area now has two structures above the ground at either end
https://i.imgur.com/9zKPZmS.jpg

Finished several weeks ago the service road/ bin area is now hidden from view.
https://i.imgur.com/1yVfiy0.jpg

[avidspotter]

Talk about hypocrisy."Does essential travel mean ignoring the risk because someone thinks their journey is essential. I would suspect most journeys are not essential particularly the destinations on offer from Luton".

Not sure taking photos around the airport would constitute essential travel or even be in the spirit of the regulations about staying home as much as possible.

[LTNman]

You seem to have an agenda against me with your petty comments. I suggest you keep up with new government advice. We are now allowed to exercise as much as we like from yesterday, which is why I have now done an update after a gap of 8 weeks. Just for info, going for a walk is not like sitting on an aircraft. Sorry you can’t work that out.

[ericlday]

LTNman....Thank you for your construction update its much appreciated even from a Tenerife viewpoint...Stay Safe

[avidspotter]

Not at all. They are great pictures and as usual a thorough and interesting round up.

I know you can exercise as many times as you like now, but surely even you would agree it is a little more than ironic that you would choose to take your exercise in the very place that you are so worked up about people travelling to and from unnecessarily "ignoring the risk" and potentially spreading the virus, especially as you have entered public areas like the car parks and terminal front on your "exercise".

[LTNman]

Trust me, there was no one about and the car parks are all empty on the upper floors and all but empty on the lower floors. I would think there was more people in the local park.

I find it hard to get “worked up” in a sad empty place, as I have never seen it like this before. I was sent a couple of photos that I published back in April but to see it in person was quite shocking.

Oh, thank you ericlday for you comment. I do the updates with photos for people like you who get to the airport infrequently and are interested in what is going on. Saying that I don’t think I will be back anytime soon, which will stop avidspotter moaning with pointless drivel apart from his first sentence.

[avidspotter]

Very sad and worrying times. And no sign its going to get better any time soon. Just reading Romania has also extended its travel ban. Wizz Air's bold claims at the start of the month now look exactly that, just bold claims. Still did a good job of raising their profile...

[LTNman]

It is indeed hard to feel any positive vibes coming out of the airport. The future feels as bleak as it did 7 weeks ago, maybe more so. With TUI announcing 8,000 worldwide job cuts and with its UK HQ just a mile away and a hangar at the airport I cannot see how Luton will not feel even more pain in the coming weeks.

The airport has cut costs and has even put signs up that if anyone ventures onto the multi-storey car park roofs they will need a torch at night as the lighting has been switched off. This from an airport that was using electrical outside heaters a couple of months ago to keep the smokers toasty except they never made a difference.

Despite this, the terminal is open 24/7 with I think 4 flights a week arriving in the early hours. I would have thought Wizz could have changed flight times to a more passenger and airport friendly schedule when for instance their Tel Aviv flights are the only use of that aircraft for that day.

No car park busses either, which is another reason why I won’t be back for a while, as it makes a reasonable walk from home a very long walk. Even when the buses start again I would be a reluctant passenger and this is the airports dilemma. Everyday the public will be doing their own risk assessments and flying will be seen as a risky business for a long time to come for many.

[LTNman]

Total passengers 14,017, down 99.1%
Total capacity 37,928, down 97.9%
Load factor 37%
Year to date 2,933,278, down 43.7%
Rolling 12 month total 15,725,730, down 8.2%

[BHX5DME]

Total passengers 14,017, down 99.1%
Total capacity 37,928, down 97.9%
Load factor 37%
Year to date 2,933,278, down 43.7%
Rolling 12 month total 5,725,730, down 8.2%

Your rolling 12m figure is 10m pax out :-)

[Falcon666]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wNUnwquvx-o&feature=emb_title

latest drone footage of DART

Thanks LTNman for the construction update
This video was obviously taken a few weeks ago as your photos supersede some sections

[LTNman]

Comparing the artist impression with the construction update, as previously suspected, there appears to be a major part of the station building missing. Drawings show 2 phases but whether that is for a station capacity upgrade for a second terminal or is needed for the current construction so the bridge sections could be built on site and lowered into position remains to be seen.

It has already been noted in previous construction updates that the existing building has no holes between the floors for lifts, stairs and escalators so I suspect there is another section of building due to be built this year.

Another question is what are those two steel towers for? Are they being built there to be moved later? Answers on a post card to ...
https://i.imgur.com/7ySoY2v.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GvtoGUc.jpg

[ericlday]

Todays Wizzair flight to TFS was cancelled last night after the Spanish Authorities designated Gran Canaria as the sole airport in the Canaries allowed to accept international arrivals. Subsequently TFS complained, the authorities back tracked on their decision and will now allow TFS to accept international arrivals. Too late to reinstate the flight. P*ss up and Brewery spring to mind ......

[LTNman]

Might be old news but Blue Air is now only bookable to Romania, which seems to restart July 1st.

[ericlday]

https://www.london-luton.co.uk/getmedia/fcf2df4e-3f70-4fdd-aebf-a6de71e74d70/airline-logo-blueair-new.aspx 0B9191Bucharest-Otopeni 12:20 Estimated 12:05 Due today

[LTNman]

I saw that but I think it might be a charter as there is no return leg. The website says they are not operating flights until July but they will do charter flights.

[jon01]

I saw that but I think it might be a charter as there is no return leg. The website says they are not operating flights until July but they will do charter flights.
Departs back to Bucharest at 13:05 as BLA9190

[LGS6753]

I saw that but I think it might be a charter as there is no return leg. The website says they are not operating flights until July but they will do charter flights.
I think it must be a charter - this is not one of the normal flight numbers used.

[gilesdavies]

I didn't realise the local council were reliant on the airport for their day to day funding...

Just watching Look East and mentioned how Luton Borough Council were expecting a £16 million payment dividend, which the airport has now withdrawn from paying due to the current situation. The council are now threatening cutbacks to local services.

I can now see why the airport rubs up neighbouring councils the wrong way, by not being a beneficiary of this money too!

[pabely]

It is alot more complicated than that! Who owns the airport?!

Remember who owns 2/3 of MAG as well, that will be a loss of £100m for Manchester Council's ?

Then you got West Midlands Councils owning 49% of Brum, that will be a loss in dividends for them as well.

[LTNman]

The missing dividend is only part of the story, the other bit they are keeping quiet about.

The council own 100% of the airport via its airport company London Luton Airport Ltd. LLAL fund many of its projects by taking out loans from the council. As the council has no money they then borrow the money themselves. The airport dividend to the council would be substantially more if it wasn’t for the interest payments on around £330m of debt. Not only can LLAL not pay a dividend they don’t seem to be able to pay the interest payments either meaning the council will now have to pick up the bill.

The Dart is a classic example of how the council spends money. As the airport reached capacity without the Dart it is only needed for an expanded airport. Expansion is not guaranteed so the Dart has to be seen as a project just for the existing terminal. The airport operator LLAOL has refused to put money into the project while the airport passengers are not paying for it either in the form of a levy. This leaves the council taxpayer to fund it except they will not benefit from the Dart.

There is also the Terminal 2 access road. This is costed at £124 million and the council want to build it before they know the outcome of any government decision on airport expansion. This time the council will fund it themselves rather than lend the money to LLAL as it is more tax efficient.

The pie chart for council income shows the airport dividend to be 10% of the councils budget but they are now claiming lost revenue from the airport is actually costing the council 38% of its budget.

While the airport has indeed been a good income stream for the council the council could now end up in special measures because of the airport as it hadn’t diversified its commercial activities.

[LGS6753]

Air Albania's A319 was in again yesterday; it seems to have been a regular visitor over recent weeks. Presumably it's carrying freight?

[Spanish eyes]

It has been reported here before that the flights carry deported Albanian criminals home and used to fly into Stansted.

[AirportPlanner1]

It has been reported here before that the flights carry deported Albanian criminals home and used to fly into Stansted.

How do you know they are criminals?

[Spanish eyes]

I don't but that what was reported by a Stansted guy on here when it was mentioned before.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52726983

Stand by for a shafting all those living in Luton!

When does T2 open..........

[LTNman]

https://www.luton.gov.uk/Council_government_and_democracy/Lists/LutonDocuments/PDF/Corporate%20Finance/Accounts/Revised-statement-of-accounts-2018-19.pdf

Page 38 states the council has group reserves of over a billion pounds and single reserves of over £600m. The problem for the council taxpayer is that the council does not want to touch their reserves. Also they are predicting a year of no passengers so they can screw the general taxpayer for even more money.

[avidspotter]

Air Albania's A319 was in again yesterday; it seems to have been a regular visitor over recent weeks. Presumably it's carrying freight?
It's a repatriation flight organised by the Albanian Government

[Buster the Bear]

Group reserves I am guessing include physical assets, like an airport, or is it held as cash?

[pabely]

Group reserves I am guessing include physical assets, like an airport, or is it held as cash?
Council Audit Statements are a little strange to the untrained eye. Ok the usable reserves can be called upon but once they are gone, they are gone! ie Sell your house to get cash but it can only be done once, might not be considered wise long term. The councils (along with many other councils) aim is to get additional funding from central government to tied them over without significant drawndown on reserves. Short term this could involve a reduction of services or increases in local tax, but that would not be good at the ballot boxes!

[terrain safe]

OK. Council reserves cannot be used for day to day operations except in a small shortfall in some operational costs e.g. uninsured loss of a flooded building or extra costs for CYP or ACS. It cannot be generally budgeted for except for a small amount such as a couple of million. The reserves can also be money held by the council for other parties, so while they show on balance sheets, they are not council money. Also, money borrowed to use on a project will be shown there so while it looks good it is also spoken for much as if you borrow money to pay for an extension, your bank balance goes up. A lot of rules apply to how councils can spend their money which is why they have a section 151 officer who has a legal duty to ensure that these rules are followed.

So it's not all just sat in an account waiting to be spent.

[nohold]

From the 21st May 2020 a reminder that the Luton runway designation will become 25 and 07.

[pabely]

Keep up chap, been discussed a few times, most recently here https://www.pprune.org/10782107-post3832.html

[LTNman]

I knew it was this month but had forgotten the day. Would have thought they could have done it during the day.

[ericlday]

Paint dries too quickly in the sun.......sorry

[Lee Baker Street]

Can anyone confirm that EasyJet will be operating from LTN on the 15th of June?

[pabely]

http://BBC News - Coronavirus: EasyJet to resume flights in June https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52751791
Doesn't specifically say which airports though

[nohold]

Yes pabely, that is why I used the word reminder, simple innit!

[LTNman]

Can anyone confirm that EasyJet will be operating from LTN on the 15th of June?


Nothing from Luton, only the following airports will get a domestic services:
Bristol, Birmingham, Gatwick, Liverpool, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and Belfast.

Gatwick will also start a Nice service

[22/04]

Flew over the 26 threshold on Tuesday and there was just 2 on the eastern threshold.

[ericlday]

Just gone down to B&Q to get another can of paint.......not a lot of money in the kitty these days !!!!

[BHX5DME]

UK


Belfast-Birmingham
Belfast-Bristol
Belfast-Edinburgh
Belfast-Glasgow
Belfast-London Gatwick
Belfast-Liverpool
Belfast-Newcastle
Birmingham-Belfast
Bristol-Belfast
Edinburgh-Belfast
Edinburgh-London Gatwick
Glasgow-Belfast
Glasgow-London Gatwick
Inverness-London Gatwick
Isle of Man-London Gatwick
Isle of Man-Liverpool
London Gatwick-Belfast
London Gatwick-Edinburgh
London Gatwick-Glasgow
London Gatwick-Inverness
London Gatwick-Isle of Man
London Gatwick-Nice
Liverpool-Belfast
Liverpool-Isle of Man
Newcastle-Belfast

France


Bordeaux-Lyon
Bordeaux-Nice
Paris Charles de Gaulle-Nice
Paris Charles de Gaulle-Toulouse
Lille-Nice
Lyon-Bordeaux
Lyon-Nantes
Nice-Bordeaux
Nice-Paris Charles de Gaulle
Nice-London Gatwick
Nice-Lille
Nice-Nantes
Nice-Toulouse
Nice-Geneva
Nantes-Lyon
Nantes-Nice
Toulouse-Paris Charles de Gaulle
Toulouse-Nice

Switzerland


Geneva-Porto
Geneva-Barcelona
Geneva-Lisbon
Geneva-Nice

Spain


Barcelona-Geneva

Portugal


Porto-Geneva
Lisbon-Geneva

[pabely]

Isle of Man-London Gatwick
Isle of Man-Liverpool


IOM Gov said no today, unless hospital transfers or key approved workers.These are no way filling Loganairs currently running to Liverpool & Manchester from IOM and 14 day self isolation must take place in residence not currently occupied on arrival. Maybe rules may change by that date but pay your money and risk cancelled flight is more likely.

[LTNman]

Nothing from Luton as EasyJet’s preference is and always has been Gatwick. If cutbacks are made in the future to Easyjet’s London services there is already a hint who the winner will be.

[pabely]

Early days, never on the cards that all bases would start at once. Some of the Gatwick routes are very thin per week. Probally do it all with just 2 planes.

Signs are that the likes of Signature are expecting a big rebound as people who can afford it, look to distance themselves from other pax!

[LTNman]

Confirmed by a worker that Gulfsteam will retain just a man in a van at Luton when they move to Farnborough. There was a rumour that they would retain some sort of mini base at Luton.

The issue for Signature is that its passengers are governed by the same restrictions as everyone else. There was a story circulating at Signature that while the American crew of a biz jet could fly Luton to the good old USA the British owner of the jet could not.

[WilliumMate]

Could have sworn that at 0300 today there was a post by LTNman foretelling of bad news concerning LLA to be revealed this morning.

Did I miss it? Was I dreaming? Do tell.

;)

[Yahoo!®]

Could have sworn that at 0300 today there was a post by LTNman foretelling of bad news concerning LLA to be revealed this morning.

Did I miss it? Was I dreaming? Do tell.

;)
think you’re imagining things mate, nothing on here, checked on a couple of devices

[Captain_Caveman]

Could have sworn that at 0300 today there was a post by LTNman foretelling of bad news concerning LLA to be revealed this morning.

Did I miss it? Was I dreaming? Do tell.

;)

I saw that too and wondered where it went !

[mustbeaboeing]

Could have sworn that at 0300 today there was a post by LTNman foretelling of bad news concerning LLA to be revealed this morning.


I saw that post as well.

Perhaps a ‘late night / early morning’ post that was deleted by the writer ?

[LTNman]

It was about the airports/ the councils future expansion plans. I now seek a second source for information, as thinking about it overnight the info could be read in two different ways. What was clear last night is not so clear today so the post was pulled due to a lack of certainty. I don't want to state a fact for me to then be wrong but whatever happens there will be a delay.

[WilliumMate]

It was about the airports/ the councils future expansion plans. I now seek a second source for information, as thinking about it overnight the info could be read in two different ways. What was clear last night is not so clear today so the post was pulled due to a lack of certainty. I don't want to state a fact for me to then be wrong but whatever happens there will be a delay.

Thank you LTNman. It would be nice if LBC for once laid out it's new plan clearly and without ambiguity.

[avidspotter]

It was about the airports/ the councils future expansion plans. I now seek a second source for information, as thinking about it overnight the info could be read in two different ways. What was clear last night is not so clear today so the post was pulled due to a lack of certainty. I don't want to state a fact for me to then be wrong but whatever happens there will be a delay.

Spotted these two articles? Is this what you mean...

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/civils/uk-airports-to-axe-1bn-of-projects-constructions-latest-setback-21-05-2020/
https://www.hertsad.co.uk/home/e-edition (Page 2)

[LTNman]

The council has released a statement that the DCO that was meant to be submitted in June now won’t be. The reasons given are totally phoney as the council would choke if they had to be honest yet the title of the document is London Luton Airport and Covid -19. https://futureluton.llal.org.uk/

Of course the court case at Heathrow also had nothing to do with the decision or the fact that passenger numbers at Luton have been decimated so they can’t afford the existing loan payments for projects started.

I was thinking yesterday that the council had pulled the scheme but now I am thinking the council is looking at how to save the project after this statement, which I was only made aware of today.

[Planespeaking]

The council has released a statement that the DCO that was meant to be submitted in June now won’t be. The reasons given are totally phoney as the council would choke if they had to be honest yet the title of the document is London Luton Airport and Covid -19. https://futureluton.llal.org.uk/

Of course the court case at Heathrow also had nothing to do with the decision or the fact that passenger numbers at Luton have been decimated so they can’t afford the existing loan payments for protects started.

I was thinking yesterday that the council had pulled the scheme but now I am thinking the council is looking at how to save the project after this statement, which I was only made aware of today. But LTNman the big question is, what is so important about your airport that you have been up all night allegedly posting spurious information about LTN at 0300, when the rest of the world is in bed sucking it's thumb and can't be asked? I think we should be told! A little light relief is called for!!

[LTNman]

1/ I didn't post anything spurious, only the fact that some might view this announcement as bad news and that it would come out today which it did.
2/ It is not my airport, it is owned by the council.
3/ It was not posted at 3am but the night before.
4/ I slept all night
5/ I woke up at my normal time and pulled the post as I wanted further information. In fact I could have just left it as the post was correct.

[Planespeaking]

1/ I didn't post anything spurious, only the fact that some might view this announcement as bad news and that it would come out today which it did.
2/ It is not my airport, it is owned by the council.
3/ It was not posted at 3am but the night before.
4/ I slept all night
5/ I woke up at my normal time and pulled the post as I wanted further information. In fact I could have just left it as the post was correct.
Thankyou for responding LTNman and keep up your informative posts.

[LTNman]

Comparing the artist impression with the construction update, as previously suspected, there appears to be a major part of the station building missing. Drawings show 2 phases but whether that is for a station capacity upgrade for a second terminal or is needed for the current construction so the bridge sections could be built on site and lowered into position remains to be seen.

It has already been noted in previous construction updates that the existing building has no holes between the floors for lifts, stairs and escalators so I suspect there is another section of building due to be built this year.

Another question is what are those two steel towers for? Are they being built there to be moved later? Answers on a post card to ...
https://i.imgur.com/7ySoY2v.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GvtoGUc.jpg


Had a look at those two steel towers today as I drove past to do some food shopping. 99% certain they are the lift shafts for the remote platforms, as per the artist impression. They haven’t moved but are now getting side walls.

[Buster the Bear]

Tick, tock, a local borough council is about to financially implode O'Clock?

As for the reserves, that rainy day has arrived and it is of biblical proportions. Maybe Noah can help the local Labour party? Match 2 quid for another 2 quid.....

[Mr Optimistic]

As a non-too-local local, I have lost touch with what is happening here. Given all the construction going on, what is now being delayed, ie the scope of the DOC?
These remote platforms, are they at the airport or Luton Parkway?
They sure like the tedious word ' sustainable' don't they.

[LTNman]

The remote platforms are my description of the railway station platforms at Parkway that need a footbridge to get passengers from the train to the Dart station

The DCO is linked to the expansion of the airport outside its existing boundary. If a DCO is granted the council will look for a new operator to build the infrastructure and then run the airport on a new concession.

In the meantime the council are funding the Dart to the existing terminal and intend to fund the road to the second terminal on the pretence it is an access road to a business park. The issue is that the road would only be viable if it serves an expanded airport as it has been costed at £124m

[WilliumMate]

While we good residents of Luton await the emergency budget, and then live with the fall out of such, the DART is looking increasingly like a luxury we can ill afford at the moment and with the DCO being kicked into a corner have no real demand for.

What we don't know is how deep the council has gone down the financing route. Whether it is being borrowed in stages and contracts let in phases or if we are up to our neck in it. Answers of any kind are hard to come by. Direct face to face questions to LBC members are brushed aside, council meetings concerning the airport exclude the public (as they have been for years now) and the considerable section of the local population who rely on the airport directly or indirectly for their income are left in limbo.

The council must now swallow their pride. Suspend as far as possible any further development of the DART, put it into a care and maintenance state and concentrate on getting the airport back where it was before the current situation. When the numbers demand it, get it finished.

[Mr Optimistic]

The remote platforms are my description of the railway station platforms at Parkway that need a footbridge to get passengers from the train to the Dart station

The DCO is linked to the expansion of the airport outside its existing boundary. If a DCO is granted the council will look for a new operator to build the infrastructure and then run the airport on a new concession.

In the meantime the council are funding the Dart to the existing terminal and intend to fund the road to the second terminal on the pretence it is an access road to a business park. The issue is that the road would only be viable if it serves an expanded airport as it has been costed at £124m

Thank you very much for that. Cheers.

[LTNman]

The council must now swallow their pride. Suspend as far as possible any further development of the DART, put it into a care and maintenance state and concentrate on getting the airport back where it was before the current situation. When the numbers demand it, get it finished.

I think the project is too far down the line to be stopped now and by stopping it and then starting it again will add to the final bill.


The opening date was meant to be the Spring of 2021 but that has been moved to summer 2021. The airport was claiming it was on schedule but looking at the time line for completing different parts of the project it is clear it is running late and might not open until 2022. When projects run late so the costs go up, which will mean even more money will need to be borrowed. We might never find out the final cost as it will be hidden away.


The project is remarkable for the speed of when it was first announced to the world and the actual start date. Consultations were held only 3 1/2 years ago in November 2016. Three months later a planning application had been submitted with a full set of drawings to the Council by the Council and then swiftly approved and work was actually started in August 2017, just 9 months after the consultation. Compare this to other major projects that take years to start. This is what happens in Communist China where opposition is crushed and the state does what it likes. The state in this case being the Labour controlled Council. Saying that, I don't think there was any opposition, as it was projected as taking traffic off the roads, the airport already owned the land on the route and no one asked any questions about who was going to pay as it was all free LLAL money except LLAL is the Council.


With the plans in February 2017 showing the track taking a 90 degree turn inside the CTA, so the terminal station lined up nicely with the public park next door, it was obvious a planning application for airport expansion was on its way. In December 2017 the Council announce plans to double the size of the airport after denying there were any such plans. A phoney consultation was held that showed 4 locations for the second terminal. One location was south of the runway yet work had started on the Dart which needed the terminal to be inside Wigmore Park so it lined up with the Dart track.


The big question is why is the council spending £225m for a Dart link to the existing terminal when the terminal has reached capacity without it. Yes it is taking 2 buses off the road that shuttle all day between the station and the airport but that can't justify spending £225 million. This project is being funded by the council taxpayer yet they will get nothing out of it as very few council taxpayers will ever use it. Of course those in the know understand that the Dart was never about serving the existing terminal but serving a second terminal and this project smooths the wheels of the DCO. The Council is also funding the £124m link road that will allegedly serve a proposed business park except most of the business park sits on the same land that is required for airport expansion. Again this road ,if started soon, will smooth the DCO application and the airport concessionaire who is expected to build the terminal 2 infrastructure will get a free road and £225m knocked off the price of getting a Dart link from Parkway Station to its new terminal.

[Buster the Bear]

This is what happens in Communist China where opposition is crushed and the state does what it likes. The state in this case being the Labour controlled Council.

Chuckles loudly from my bear pit! Superb analogy.

[pabely]

Taxiway Foxtrot closure due to parked aircraft extended until 23/6.

[inOban]

Chuckles loudly from my bear pit! Superb analogy.
It happens wherever you have a first past the post elections. Fortunately in Scotland both our local and national elections use (different) forms of PR, so it is easier to get rid of useless people.

[LTNman]

Changing the runway designation.

https://youtu.be/1HVHVr92MDM

[Buster the Bear]

I wonder what the impact will be on movements/passenger figures with the news from easyJet today?

[LTNman]

Potential double whammy for Luton with its HQ at Luton. Will they now build their new HQ when cutting jobs?

[lutonboi]

Seems Wizz have jumped on the EasyJet announcement by announcing flights from Luton to Milan, Fuerteventura, Lanzarote, Malaga and Palma

[LTNman]

The council has a long history of giving the airport operator rebates on concession income which is then passed onto airlines to encourage new services. I believe this ended when the airport reached capacity last year.

Wizz now has not only the airport operator over a barrel but also the Council. Who is paying who now comes to mind.

[Buster the Bear]

Wizz Air will launch new routes to Palma and Malaga on 1 July, with Spain getting ready to reopen to international tourism.The budget carrier’s new five-times weekly Palma service, and daily Malaga service, will be followed by the launch of a twice-weekly Luton-Fuerteventura route on 3 July.

Luton-Lanzarote flights, meanwhile, will get under way on 27 October. Its Palma service is yet subject to UK and Spanish government restrictions being lifted.

Wizz will launch previously announced new Las Palmas (4 June) and Faro (16 June) routes over the coming weeks.

[Lee Baker Street]

The council has a long history of giving the airport operator rebates on concession income which is then passed onto airlines to encourage new services. I believe this ended when the airport reached capacity last year.

Wizz now has not only the airport operator over a barrel but also the Council. Who is paying who now comes to mind.

LTNman we are both old-school and whilst you come across as pessimistic I am your opposite in that I am an optimist. I recall many years ago when EasyJet’s concession for some of its routes ended. LBC stood its ground and subsequently EasyJet continued with growth at LTN. This current economic downfall is temporary but I believe that once passenger levels start growing once more, so will LTN. One thing I hope we agree on is that LTN has a fantastic catchment area which is reflected by a phenomenal growth these last few years. I was very saddened by the demise of Monarch but Wizzair UK more than doubled Monarchs loss. Equally if any airline were to reduce its presence at LTN there are other airlines who would be more than happy to take over those routes. The likes of Jet2 should never be ruled out because I constantly hear good things about that airline that makes me wish they operated from LTN. Over the decades- Britannia was the dominant airline, then came Ryanair, then came EasyJet and possibly today is Wizzair but history dictates there could be someone else in the future if the current airlines rest on their laurels!

[avidspotter]

Just goes to show where some see risk others see opportunity. In ordinary times this would end in a bloody price war, so will be interesting to what happens this year.

[LTNman]

Luton certainly does have a massive catchment area which from memory is only second to Heathrow. Of course what is happening now will only last a matter of time but at the moment the airlines will be driving hard bargains not that many apart from Wizz will be looking for much growth. Rolling passenger total for 12 months time is anyone's guess but I am thinking it will be below 10m when 12 months of post Covid 19 figures are included in part due to an impoverished Europe.

[Boeing737-8]

From 31 July 2020, Wizz Air's new Milan Malpensa to London Luton route will become 2x daily with morning and evening flights:

MXP 0710-0800 LTN (Daily)
MXP 1900-1950 LTN (Daily)

LTN 0840-1125 MXP (Daily)
LTN 2030-2315 MXP (Daily)

Wizz look to be loading a few more routes at Salzburg today. Could this be the next destination?

[Buster the Bear]

Could be loads of spare slots at Gatwick and be very tempting to move some Wizz routes south of the Thames, just like easyJet did in the early 2000s? With routes that BA, Norwegian and Thomas Cook possibly available, dafter things have happened to Luton over the years.

[Buster the Bear]

LTNman we are both old-school and whilst you come across as pessimistic I am your opposite in that I am an optimist. I recall many years ago when EasyJet’s concession for some of its routes ended. LBC stood its ground and subsequently EasyJet continued with growth at LTN. This current economic downfall is temporary but I believe that once passenger levels start growing once more, so will LTN. One thing I hope we agree on is that LTN has a fantastic catchment area which is reflected by a phenomenal growth these last few years. I was very saddened by the demise of Monarch but Wizzair UK more than doubled Monarchs loss. Equally if any airline were to reduce its presence at LTN there are other airlines who would be more than happy to take over those routes. The likes of Jet2 should never be ruled out because I constantly hear good things about that airline that makes me wish they operated from LTN. Over the decades- Britannia was the dominant airline, then came Ryanair, then came EasyJet and possibly today is Wizzair but history dictates there could be someone else in the future if the current airlines rest on their laurels!

I understand that Jet2 wanted to open a base at Luton, but were not offered dedicated areas of the terminal, so they opted to bin Luton and talk to Stansted.

[FRatSTN]

I understand that Jet2 wanted to open a base at Luton, but were not offered dedicated areas of the terminal, so they opted to bin Luton and talk to Stansted.

Which sounds like Luton fanboy talk for Jet2 had discussions with multiple airports but Stansted were best able to fulfil their growth ambitions. Just saying.

[LTNman]

The world is a different place from when the Council first announced plans to double the size of Luton. 2 1/2 years later and it is all starting to fall apart not helped that they cannot afford the interest payments on loans if they build the access road to T2. As stated before a dishonest reason was given for the halting of the DCO.

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/luton-airport-halts-expansion-bid-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-2868954

[pabely]

Not wanting to seem to be a spotter but Wizzairs latest A321 NEO HA-LJA on it's way today. Demand for it at the moment or just most efficient (cost effective) aircraft.

[Yahoo!®]

Which sounds like Luton fanboy talk for Jet2 had discussions with multiple airports but Stansted were best able to fulfil their growth ambitions. Just saying.
any reason for being a prick?

[FRatSTN]

Any reason for using that kind of language on a public forum?

[Spanish eyes]

prick
/prɪk/

verb

1.
make a small hole in (something) with a sharp point; pierce slightly.
"prick the potatoes all over with a fork.

[TBSC]

Not wanting to seem to be a spotter but Wizzairs latest A321 NEO HA-LJA on it's way today. Demand for it at the moment or just most efficient (cost effective) aircraft.
That's a 320.

[pabely]

Very true, their first A320NEO though, only delivered 29/5, other NEOs being 321s.
The was the news storey https://www.ifn.news/posts/wizz-air-receives-first-airbus-a320neo/

[Boeing737-8]

Easyjet are just announcing a new base at Milan. LTN due to increase to 3 daily in Summer 21 from the current 10 weekly.

With the new Wizz route we will see 5 daily from LTN in Summer 21 to MXP.

[toledoashley]

Easyjet are just announcing a new base at Milan. LTN due to increase to 3 daily in Summer 21 from the current 10 weekly.

With the new Wizz route we will see 5 daily from LTN in Summer 21 to MXP.

Milan Malpensa is already a base...

[Boeing737-8]

Thanks for the correction Toledoashley. The base is increasing with the amount of based units for summer 21.

[LTNman]

Easyjet are just announcing a new base at Milan. LTN due to increase to 3 daily in Summer 21 from the current 10 weekly.

With the new Wizz route we will see 5 daily from LTN in Summer 21 to MXP.

Think Copenhagen and we know how that all ended.

[toledoashley]

Did easyJet operate Milan MXP at the same time Ryanair had their double-daily to BGY? Or did EZY start it after?

Yes, this has a feeling of another Copenhagen - although there is FR/W6 &EZY on Krakow, Lanzarote and Tenerife.

[pabely]

Milan Malpensa is already a base...
And a big one with a big maintenance facilities with Lufty Tech.

[pabely]

Looks like the January announced new Wizzair route to Gran Canaria is starting on shedule tomorrow?

[Buster the Bear]

I am hearing that there is little social distancing in and around the terminal, especially related to the inbound Wizz passengers.

Flying is safe when I can go to a pub, restaurant, cinema or football match and not have to social distance. Face masks, as we all know are worn for show, not effectiveness.

[Spanish eyes]

The staff are as bad as the passengers while the passengers from the eastern nations just don’t get it. If anyone is worried about catching Coronavirus then stay away from Luton.

There is a rumour that airport management has no intention of reducing the hourly terminal capacity to reflect social distancing. Even now passengers bunch up but it will take just a few departures leaving at a similar time in July and August to cause general issues in the departure lounge when all the retail outlets are closed.

[AirportPlanner1]

The staff are as bad as the passengers while the passengers from the eastern nations just don’t get it.

What a few of you on this thread need to appreciate is the risk to these ‘eastern’ passengers is AFTER they’ve arrived in Luton...and if this country had got its act together even that would now be low risk.

The total death toll of around 5,500 is about 13% of the UK’s ‘official’ toll, or about 8% of our actual figure. Let that sink in. That is the death toll for all the ‘eastern’ nations combined (excluding Russia) including those Wizz don’t fly from. The population of Ukraine and Poland on their own is about 12 million higher than us. Really quite sobering when you look at it like that.

[LTNman]

We have to remember that many Eastern European nations have such low numbers because they closed their borders keeping the virus out while we kept ours open.

The airlines and business leaders that are moaning now about UK quarantine would have moaned even more if we acted like those enlightened nations when U.K. cases were low. New Zealand led the way and is seen as a success but if we were as tough as them and and acted as early as them then the likes of O’Leary would have called it an over reaction. Also New Zealand still has closed borders to keep the virus out which was introduced mid March.

Back to Luton, today there are 3 departures within 40 minutes and in the afternoon 2 departures 10 minutes apart. I would have thought even those departures are risky due to the inability to social distance in the departure lounge but that is nothing compared to sitting on an aircraft.

[PAXboy]

Australia has had 102 deaths.
Early close of borders, compulsory quarantine in hotels paid by govt cost several billion. Seems like a price worth paying.

[inOban]

Although a recent Qatar flight into Athens, many of the pax being Australians of Greek origin returning for the summer, produced a lot of +ve tests.

[LTNman]

Wizz has suggested that many of its UK passengers are holidaymakers despite essential travel only advice from the government. I would think Wizz is hoping that passengers won’t be put off by 14 day quarantines which I would think most will just ignore unless there is early news of £1000 fines.

[pabely]

I am hearing some good news for TUI Engineering at Luton but not so good news for colleagues in Germany!

[pabely]

Wizzairs first flight to Reykjavik-Keflavik for a while, one off or another schedule restarted?

[ericlday]

From Wizz air web site June schedule Mon and Fri plus Wed 10th

[avidspotter]

Not really much of a surprise: https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/transport/exclusive-luton-airport-owners-reveal-latest-plans-expansion-bid-2876719

[LTNman]

The council, due to its airport, is holding an emergency budget next month. LBC will be looking to cut council jobs and council services to stave off bankruptcy while at the same time pumping even more money into its airport.

The council still needs to spend an extra £20m for the Development Consent Order and find £124m for the first phase of the road to the location of the second terminal. Seems that the council residents will be paying a high price and there was I thinking the airport was meant to put money into the councils coffers.

Lets not forget the £30m already spent on the DCO and the £225m the council has borrowed to fund the Dart that does not increase the airports existing capacity and does not benefit the councils taxpayers.

As for the existing social services, Luton has already been condemned this year by OFSTED for its appalling children’s social services with its lowest rating and this is before the latest cuts.

[dc9-32]

I would think Wizz is hoping that passengers won’t be put off by 14 day quarantines

I suspect it would be a longer period than 14 days anyway....

[gilesdavies]

Even if the airport is hoping for a fast recovery with ambitions of passenger flocking back to the airport, news that the likes of all three major low cost carriers are seeking a discount for airport fees, is going to come as like a hole in the head to LBC!

With it looking like some capacity will be becoming available at other London airports, there is likely to be some wriggle room for negotiations.

New York Times - Budget Airlines Put Squeeze on Airports in Coronavirus Cost Drive (https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/05/28/world/europe/28reuters-health-coronavirus-airlines-airports-focus.html)

[LTNman]

Luton seems to have a complicated arrangement due to the airport being run as a concession by an airport operator. In the past it was the council giving rebates to the airport operator who then offered a discount to the airlines to attract new business.

I don’t know who is hurting more, the operator or the council. While the Dart link is still being funded by the council the airport operator has said it was stopping all investments at Luton. The taxiway extension at the 25 end needs the soil from the Dart but was being funded by the operator. The soil has been delivered by the council but will the taxiway now be built by the operator?

[BlueA330]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x1136/e1885845_0993_421c_ac66_62a7b2665d7f_5f871e1700319ecb2539fd9 ecb201ec9076f821b.png
Am I right in thinking this is the first 787-9 to come into Luton

[Cloud1]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x1136/e1885845_0993_421c_ac66_62a7b2665d7f_5f871e1700319ecb2539fd9 ecb201ec9076f821b.png
Am I right in thinking this is the first 787-9 to come into Luton

No the -9 has been in before and recently during lockdown too.

[LGS6753]

Blue Air re-starting ops to Bacau from next week (3pw) then increasing to 5pw from July and onwards. No sign of Bucharest flights yet.

[pabely]

Luton had it's busiest day for biz movements yesterday since March 21st, nothing like it used to be, time will tell if it was a blip due to new 14 day rules.

[Lee Baker Street]

No the -9 has been in before and recently during lockdown too.
I last see the -9 at LTN about two weeks ago and a -8 a week ago. During the lockdown it was nice to see more wide-body than single aisle aircraft.

[LTNman]

The passenger footbridge over the tracks at Parkway has received its first escalator to the platforms below.
https://i.imgur.com/RHDf6M6.jpg

The photo shows the Dart trackbed. Either side of the bridge can be seen 3 V shapes. These are the approach lights to runway 07
https://i.imgur.com/LYx0bJV.jpg

Taxiway Bravo is being reinstated with the tunnel below.
https://i.imgur.com/DihGjrL.jpg

With the tunnel complete the last section of infilling is taking place by the terminal station entrance.
https://i.imgur.com/RvnZa7Z.jpg

The passenger walkway over the terminal station has now been concreted with the roof supports underneath taken away.
https://i.imgur.com/2yxB9tn.jpg

Lift shafts and stairwells are going in.
https://i.imgur.com/7wupGlX.jpg

[boeing_eng]

I last see the -9 at LTN about two weeks ago and a -8 a week ago. During the lockdown it was nice to see more wide-body than single aisle aircraft.

TUI are fitting the 787-9's in H61 by putting them in at an angle.......wasn't attempted before Covid!

[Buster the Bear]

Wizz Air Drops 19 Destinations from Kutaisi Base - Georgia Today on the Web (http://georgiatoday.ge/news/21433/Wizz-Air-Drops-19-Destinations-from-Kutaisi-Base)

[LGS6753]

New routes from EasyJet

From Travel Mole:
https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~T_mdT_Y!&w_id=37627&news_id=2043026

[Buster the Bear]

Are they not routes already flown, or intending to be flown by Wizz? Next someone will say that easyJet will get financial incentives from the airport to commence routes that are already on offer from Luton?

[LGS6753]

Further info on new routes from TTG:

"No start date has been set for the new routes, which will compete directly with several existing and previously announced Wizz Air links."
"It comes after Luton-based Wizz announced plans to overtake easyJet as the airport’s largest carrier last summer."
"EasyJet will resume operations at Luton on 1 July this year, flying to 90% of its existing route network, albeit at reduced frequencies."
"For summer 2021, easyJet will fly to Zakynthos seven times a week, and three times a week to Larnaca, Fuerteventura, Las Palmas, Marrakech and Varna."
"Services set to gain frequency include Palma (up from 22 to 28); Faro (up from 18 to 20); Lisbon (up from 20 to 21); Porto, Thessaloniki, Tenerife and Heraklion (up from three to seven); Corfu (up from six to seven); Milan (up from 10 to 21); and Rhodes (up from two to seven)."

Looks like EZY are defending their base against Wizz.

[LGS6753]

That's 55 additional services weekly, accounting for three or four additional aircraft, unless other routes are cut.

[LTNman]

Nowhere to park them comes to mind.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.edie.net/news/6/Luton-Airport-to-become--most-sustainable-airport--by-2040/

[LTNman]

Luton Airport to become 'most sustainable airport' by 2040

So they have delayed the DCO until 2021 and intend to make a promise to become 'most sustainable airport' by 2040 some 18 years after hoping to get planning permission and many years after it is built. Of course if they can't meet the target they will no doubt put in a planning application to themselves to set it aside with lame excuses. This is happening now with aircraft noise, which they had breached for 2 consecutive years. No problem for the airport operator, as they have put in a planning application to set aside the planning permission, which restricted noise, that will be decided by the airport owner at a Council planning meeting.

[toledoashley]

Further info on new routes from TTG:

"No start date has been set for the new routes, which will compete directly with several existing and previously announced Wizz Air links."
"It comes after Luton-based Wizz announced plans to overtake easyJet as the airport’s largest carrier last summer."
"EasyJet will resume operations at Luton on 1 July this year, flying to 90% of its existing route network, albeit at reduced frequencies."
"For summer 2021, easyJet will fly to Zakynthos seven times a week, and three times a week to Larnaca, Fuerteventura, Las Palmas, Marrakech and Varna."
"Services set to gain frequency include Palma (up from 22 to 28); Faro (up from 18 to 20); Lisbon (up from 20 to 21); Porto, Thessaloniki, Tenerife and Heraklion (up from three to seven); Corfu (up from six to seven); Milan (up from 10 to 21); and Rhodes (up from two to seven)."

Looks like EZY are defending their base against Wizz.

Plus all of them fit very nicely with the 'easyJet holidays' plan.

[pabely]

That's 55 additional services weekly, accounting for three or four additional aircraft, unless other routes are cut.
I do suspect a reduction in other routes, if EZY based aircraft remains the same then Luton has done well, remember EZY will be 30 aircraft less in the whole fleet by next year.

[LGS6753]

Plus all of them fit very nicely with the 'easyJet holidays' plan.

That certainly looks like a sensible opinion. LTN has lost virtually all of its IT package business, with the loss of Monarch and retrenchment of TUI. This could be seen as a response to Jet2's growth at STN, or perhaps a pre-emptive move to stop them considering LTN in the future.

[LTNman]

There can be no doubt that the Council has reintroduced subsidies that ended when the airport reached capacity.

Noted that all of the new routes announced by Wizz and Easyjet are to holiday destinations and none to Eastern Europe apart from Vanra, which is a holiday destination on the Black Sea, which must reflect the UK finally leaving the EU.

The jam appears to be spreading thinner next year so will anyone be making money particularly when the UK will be in a massive recession if the reports are to be believed.

[Dannyboy39]

There can be no doubt that the Council has reintroduced subsidies that ended when the airport reached capacity.
Why is this a bad thing? This is a model that has been used by airports all over the world, for the benefit of airlines, passengers and airports together.

[Planespeaking]

There can be no doubt that the Council has reintroduced subsidies that ended when the airport reached capacity.

Noted that all of the new routes announced by Wizz and Easyjet are to holiday destinations and none to Eastern Europe apart from Vanra, which is a holiday destination on the Black Sea, which must reflect the UK finally leaving the EU.

The jam appears to be spreading thinner next year so will anyone be making money particularly when the UK will be in a massive recession if the reports are to be believed.

Airport subsidies have been used forever to attract new airline customers, and Ryanair have exploited that policy to an art form to obtain favourable terms.

[LTNman]

Why is this a bad thing? This is a model that has been used by airports all over the world, for the benefit of airlines, passengers and airports together.


Did I say it was a bad thing? Does sound like the Council is panicking as it stares into the face of bankruptcy. The accounts show the rebates come from the Council while the airport operator says thank you very much.

[pabely]

Is that the first Blue Air for a while back in tomorrow?

[LTNman]

Think it is a charter as there is no departure showing. Scheduled services are meant to start in July.

[davidjohnson6]

Wizz to start daily route to Bacau on 29 October. Blue Air already fly the route

[LTNman]

Wizz will know the market cannot grow, as we are out of the EU transition period 2 months later. More of a case of shutting out Blue Air so Luton is even more reliant on Wizz and their demands for ever bigger discounts.

[davidjohnson6]

I don't think Luton is the focus of what Wizz are doing

Blue Air currently fly from Bacau to:
Bergamo, Brussels, Dublin, Luton, Rome FCO and Turin

Wizz will fly from Bacau to:
Bergamo, Brussels-Charleroi, Luton, Rome FCO, Turin and 7 other cities

Wizz don't fly to Dublin, not even from Budapest
Wizz seem to be trying to take over from Blue Air in Bacau

[Boeing737-8]

However, the Blue air timings are better with the morning departure. The Wizz timings are below:

BCM 1850-2015 LTN (Daily)

LTN 2045-0155+1 BCM (Daily)

Has anyone seen or got a link to the ACL LTN Winter 20 report?

Thanks

[Falcon666]

Has anyone seen or got a link to the ACL LTN Winter 20 report?

Thanks

Doesn’t appear to be available yet , only the capacity declaration



https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/LTN-W20-Capacity-Declaration.pdf

[LTNman]

Total passengers
31,492 2020
1,610,569 2019
Down 97.9%

Year to date
2,967,441 2020
6,844,389 2019
Down 56.6%

Rolling 12 months
14,123,021 2020
17,264,581 2019
Down 18.2%

Total ATM's

1,282 2020
13,112 2019
Down 90.2%

Year to date
28,300 2020
55,537 2019
Down 49.0%

Rolling 12 months
114,244 2020
138,451 2019
Down 17.5%

[davidjohnson6]

Level have gone bankrupt. Presumably the route from Luton to Amsterdam is terminated

[BHX5DME]

Level have gone bankrupt. Presumably the route from Luton to Amsterdam is terminated
Really ?

They are part of IAG so would be surprised

[davidjohnson6]

https://cms.flyleveleurope.com/en/leveleurope

[Buster the Bear]

Confirmed Amsterdam terminated.

[BHX5DME]

Confirmed Amsterdam terminated.

Level Long Haul not affected

[Spanish eyes]

Luton down to 6 airlines then.

So out of those 6 which was the last airline to arrive at Luton and when?

Luton seems very poor at attracting new airlines over the last 10 years which have stayed the distance. Actually they have been very poor in attracting any new airlines including those that failed or pulled out.

[davidjohnson6]

How do you get just 6 airlines ? I count 8...
Blue Air, Easyjet, El Al, Ryanair, SunExpress, TUI, Vueling and Wizzair

On your main point, I agree that Luton seems to be dependent on very few airlines given the number of passengers that passed through its doors in 2019

[FRatSTN]

Luton seems fairly set on volume over variety. They know EZY and WZZ can deliver that best for them.

[Spanish eyes]

How do you get just 6 airlines ? I count 8...
Blue Air, Easyjet, El Al, Ryanair, SunExpress, TUI, Vueling and Wizzair

On your main point, I agree that Luton seems to be dependent on very few airlines given the number of passengers that passed through its doors in 2019

What route is Vueling operating? SunExpress, hardly worth counting but I take your point.

[davidjohnson6]

OK - I'm wrong on Vueling. I thought they were still running Florence

[AirportPlanner1]

What route is Vueling operating? SunExpress, hardly worth counting but I take your point.

Is SunExpress still at LTN? They’ve been operating out of STN for the last 2 or 3 weeks.

[LTNman]

All comes back to diversification or a lack of. History is littered with airport's that have relied on just one or two airlines. Southampton is the UK's latest example. Luton's business model is cheap as chips low cost European routes and that other London airports that are full so they can get away with a poor experience. What is their business model for a 32m Luton? What new markets are they aiming for as they haven't said? Their only hint is a new terminal as bad as the existing one.

Questions about LLAOL as well. With just 11 years of the existing franchise left the clock is ticking regarding any new investment from the airport operator. They were meant to be funding the taxiway extension at runway 25, maybe they have no choice but to finish it but the new aprons that were announced last year around the engine run up bay might now never get built, as LLAOL announced they were stopping all investment. If the demand comes back in future years there will not be enough time to recoup the investment. The terminal expansion to 22.5million won't happen either as that is dependent on the new aprons.

Meanwhile the council has announce massive job cuts, cuts to services including children's and adult social services. Even the switching off of street lights and charging residents to empty their brown bins. As for the airport, the council doesn't intend to make any cutbacks so the £418 million being spent or to be spent on pre enabling work will continue, as the council has decided that residents, including the vulnerable and poor, need to make sacrifices and the government needs to bail them out due to their loss making airport and not putting money aside during the good years. The £418m might be a complete waste if the government says no to airport expansion. The DCO has now been put back a year.

As for how the Council has spent money in the past, apart from the airport, carnivals for Londoners comes to mind and money poured into trying to get City of Culture status for a town that is a sh!thole in the town centre. Even the locals who live on the edge have stopped going to the town centre and now travel to other towns for events and shopping.

[FRatSTN]

I suppose it all boils down to the fact airlines (not necessarily passengers I hasten to add) want LHR and LGW. When they can get the slots, they'll move in a heartbeat.

Whilst STN has had some success with the likes of EK, Jet2 and the odd other interesting carrier, it too frankly struggles to attract, or at least retain, a diversity of carriers. MAG continues to bang the drum on long-haul potential, at least before the pandemic, and largely on the basis of lack of capacity in LGW and LHR.

In all honesty, if many airlines won't settle for STN, then LTN is only going to find it even harder. The only exceptions really are the likes of EL AL and Blue Air where LTN has a clear advantage to serving their demographic.

Passengers on the other hand, I believe, would travel in similar numbers to other airports besides LHR and LGW if that's where the flights operated. It's a requirement far more for airlines rather than passenger preferences in my view, who always seem to have this image that LHR is just off Trafalgar Square and STN or LTN conversely are in the middle of the outback.

Unless there's a clear alliance partnership for hub connections, or Virgin/Delta type interlining agreement (which admittedly is most cases) there's little reason really to serve LHR over the other London airports other than national pride or perception alone and not really within the passenger's main interest, which is a shame.

[LTNman]

Luton’s Dart will help the airport’s image as will the the extra nonstop train per hour to and from London. 21 minutes from London and a 5 minute Dart should bring the terminal to within 30 minutes of St Pancras. The downside is that there will be a price premium for East Midland Railways and that the 6 trains an hour Thameslink service will often be quicker than waiting half an hour if a train was missed.

[Manx]

Luton’s Dart will help the airport’s image as will the the extra nonstop train per hour to and from London. 21 minutes from London and a 5 minute Dart should bring the terminal to within 30 minutes of St Pancras. And what will be additionally useful is that if you don't want to pay the premium for the faster non-stop East Midlands train, there will also be 6 trains an hour via Thameslink. Very similar to the Gatwick Express etc.

[LTNman]

13 Wizz departures on the board today with one cancellation. Might be more later tonight that are not showing. With essential travel only guidance from government, no insurance cover and a quarantine on return I wonder what the passenger figures are? Wizz will be happy to keep all the money from the no shows for pre Covid bookings.

[ericlday]

Certainly from the Canaries they are providing regular 'direct' flights to the uk and recommended on the Home Office travel site as a method of returning back home. Now what you may consider essential travel and people just out of lockdown will no doubt have differing views.

[pabely]

Don't RYR restart AGL & ALC soon?

Does the Intera European Health Insurance cover still apply so why would you buy extra Insurance intra Europe anyhow?

[ericlday]

Yes your EHIC card valid till end of the year then who knows what will happen !!!!

[pabely]

Just my point, No Insurance cover is a non reason for no travel within Europe. Plenty of people will accept 14 day quarantine on return to UK.

[Buster the Bear]

The problem with EHIC, is that many doctors will not treat patients without the back up of travel insurance. I have also read that any treatment that is offered by doctors and hospitals, varies significantly around the EU. I certainly would not wish to fall ill of have an accident without a decent travel insurance policy. Quite a good number are now offering some Covid cover, but that would be null and void if the FCO advice remains 'as is'.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/06/ryanair-and-wizz-air-ignore-coronavirus-safety-guidelines/

[LTNman]

I had my EHIC card when I ended up in hospital in Spain. I had no say how I got there after being taken ill at the poolside. The hotel called out a doctor who called out an ambulance where I was taken to a flash hospital. I was thinking this is better than the NHS. A few hours later I was given the all clear despite being offered many other tests so I just walked out of the front door.

A month later I was tracked down and was sent a big bill as they used my EHIC card details to find me. I can’t remember flashing any insurance policy at them. I had no idea but I was seen by a private doctor, went to hospital in a private ambulance and was admitted to a private hospital. Lucky for me I had travel insurance.

No travel insurance means no repatriation flights, no anything.

[Planespeaking]

I had my EHIC card when I ended up in hospital in Spain. I had no say how I got there after being taken ill at the poolside. The hotel called out a doctor who called out an ambulance where I was taken to a flash hospital. I was thinking this is better than the NHS. A few hours later I was given the all clear despite being offered many other tests so I just walked out of the front door.

A month later I was tracked down and was sent a big bill as they used my EHIC card details to find me. I can’t remember flashing any insurance policy at them. I had no idea but I was seen by a private doctor, went to hospital in a private ambulance and was admitted to a private hospital. Lucky for me I had travel insurance.

No travel insurance means no repatriation flights, no anything.
Trust all is well now LTNman....but let that be a lesson to all of us. Don't travel without travel insurance, and good luck with that whilst all this stupidity is going on. Read the small print!!

[LTNman]

They said it was kidney stones. I thought I was dying. From nothing to debilitating agony in 5 minutes. Never had them before but I have had them since. As the years passed the events became closer until they became yearly. NHS said drink more water but less meat, less beer, less fibre and gave me a big long list of don’ts.

Nothing worked until did my own research. I now start the day with 2 glasses of cloudy lemonade and have milk after my main meal. That was 4 years ago and touch wood I have been fine.

Keeping the post on topic I did fly back into Luton Airport and can’t remember any problems.

[Planespeaking]

They said it was kidney stones. I thought I was dying. From nothing to debilitating agony in 5 minutes. Never had them before but I have had them since. As the years passed the events became closer until they became yearly. NHS said drink more water but less meat, less beer, less fibre and gave me a big long list of don’ts.

Nothing worked until did my own research. I now start the day with 2 glasses of cloudy lemonade and have milk after my main meal. That was 4 years ago and touch wood I have been fine.

Keeping the post on topic I did fly back into Luton Airport and can’t remember any problems.
Thanks for that LTNman, I am told kidney stones can be one of the worst pains. Keep up the good work and keep well.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Sorry to hear that you had that nasty ailment and here's hoping it's all behind you now. I think I'll note down your 'remedy' in case I ever get stricken by it!

[LTNman]

There are different types of kidney stones. Mine was the most common after being analysed. Cloudy lemonade contains citric acid that breaks down calcium as it passes through the kidneys. I add a couple of drops of pure lemon juice for good measure.

The milk helps bad calcium from the meal cling to the good calcium in the milk. Might all be total BS and just a coincidence but for the last couple of years I have not had to declare any existing medical conditions as too much time has passed. Before I was getting kidney stones every year and ending up in A&E.

Going back to the original post about just using the EHIC card. I had it and in my case it was worthless. I am sure the receptionist got a backhander.

To get the post back on Luton there are no extra Wizz flights today so the total departures remain at 13.

[LTNman]

Seems the airport or should I say the Council is in more trouble than first thought. The Dart is costing at least an extra £18m taking the bill to £247m. The original cost was meant to be £200. The DCO to government requires another £5m. Baring in mind LLAL as no staff and was set up to just be the collector of concession fees it needs an extra £60m this financial year from the Council and another £23m next year while cutting back the dividend to zero for at least the next 2 years. This is due to the the Council getting involved in airport expansion when that was the task of the airport operator who was meant to carry the financial risks.

The truth is that the Council got greedy and always wanted more so would not wait. They keep claiming the financial mess isn't the Councils fault when clearly it is. They borrowed and borrowed and lent LLAL hundreds of millions of pounds that LLAL now can't pay back. Now they have been caught with their pants down. There also appears to be a legal despite with the airport operator who is claiming force majeure to get out of contractual obligations. Apparently that will also have a further financial impact on the Council.