Luton-9 [Archive] - Page 13

LGS6753

26th Oct 2019, 20:15

From ACL's Start of Season W19 report:

"The introduction of a declared seasonal Passenger Air Transport Movement (PATM) cap to control annual passenger numbers against a planning limit has severely impacted planned growth for the W19 season. The limit has been declared at 39,129 PATMs with all the quota being fully allocated at the time of writing. This is a significant obstacle to clearing new slot requests going through the main passenger terminal and the introduction of this constraint has caused increased schedule fragmentation in some cases." ....

"Overnight stand capacity remains fully allocated for the W19 season."

Blue Air capacity down 34% on W18
EZS operating 10 rotations, EZY group up slightly.
DHL up 20%
El Al up 10%
FlyBosnia with 88 slots.
MNG up 8%
Ryanair up slightly
Sun Express 10 slots v 0 in W18
No Tarom
TUI down 20%
Vueling/Anisec (Level) up 20%
Wizz Air unchanged
Overall, a very slight increase in movements and passenger capacity.

FRatSTN

27th Oct 2019, 07:16

LTNman

27th Oct 2019, 16:21

Just looking at the arrivals board and this evening is 36 arrivals in just over 2 hours between 20:55 and 23:00. Seems particularly busy for LTN, is this usually the case when we hit the winter season?

You can add another 12 if you go to 23:45. Schools are back tomorrow after half term..

toledoashley

27th Oct 2019, 17:35

You can add another 12 if you go to 23:45. Schools are back tomorrow after half term..

Hertfordshire Half Term is next week, so plenty of traffic for next weekend as well.

pabely

27th Oct 2019, 20:34

Hertfordshire Half Term is next week, so plenty of traffic for next weekend as well.
And Bucks as well.

LTNman

27th Oct 2019, 22:33

Tonight I will just focus on the new drop off zone.

Traffic is using a temporary access route which still allows for 2 paths for cars to follow. This gives them access to different drop off lanes depending on which side of the support they pass
https://i.imgur.com/yZR72QT.jpg

Traffic seems to self regulate in that if one route is at a standstill cars will switch before the support to the other route.
https://i.imgur.com/gdAmHLh.jpg

Traffic generally moves freely even in the night time peak and only bunches for a few seconds.
https://i.imgur.com/E3a3h54.jpg

Traffic lights are independent but most people just wait for a gap in the traffic so don't press the crossing button. This family were the exception
https://i.imgur.com/lDG64Ey.jpg

No congestion at the exit barriers
https://i.imgur.com/pSE56YS.jpg

My conclusion after 30 minutes of study is that the drop off zone is working remarkably well and better than I expected. Passenger numbers were moderate despite lots of landings although passengers might have not cleared the terminal during my visit. The big advantage is that passengers wait in the dry but can still get soaked on the long walk to the terminal before the covered walkways start by the taxi rank. I believe the airport has raised its game and is giving passengers a better experience regarding pick up and dropping off.
https://i.imgur.com/Dq3ix3Y.jpg

dvc

28th Oct 2019, 07:49

Just looking at the arrivals board and this evening is 36 arrivals in just over 2 hours between 20:55 and 23:00. Seems particularly busy for LTN, is this usually the case when we hit the winter season?
Yes that normal for winter. Easyjet just switched to Winter schedule. All the usual late arrivals are now scheduled to come back between 2100 and 2300.

compton3bravo

28th Oct 2019, 16:28

According to the declaration for summer 2020 to ACL there is a limit of 12,880,000 passenger seats. Will that impact on any future expansion I would imagine so.

pabely

28th Oct 2019, 20:17

According to the declaration for summer 2020 to ACL there is a limit of 12,880,000 passenger seats. Will that impact on any future expansion I would imagine so.
How soon a decision to add pax limit above 18M? Was it +1M or 1.5M?

LTNman

28th Oct 2019, 21:32

How soon a decision to add pax limit above 18M? Was it +1M or 1.5M?

One million and one million too many. More crowded lounges with more noise and more pollution for the locals.

Captain_Caveman

29th Oct 2019, 00:37

One million and one million too many. More crowded lounges with more noise and more pollution for the locals.

one millon extra passengers = more jobs, more revenue. Bring it on.

Spanish eyes

29th Oct 2019, 05:14

Something to ponder for those that want more airport jobs for other people to do that they would not be prepared to do themselves. Anyone like to guess what the average wage will be for the extra jobs that would be created in the new terminal, car parks and on the new apron? Not everyone is going to be taken on as a tanker driver or a new member of ATC. Remember that many workers are not offered full time contracts but part time and zero hour contracts as the report below highlights.

The companies working the terminal, aprons and car parks struggle now to hold onto staff as there are very high turnovers of workers who don’t like working 24/7 shift pattens including weekends and bank holidays for a crap wage so they leave when they can.

Anyone prepared to dispute the report below on Luton Airport?

https://stoplae.org/workers-trapped-in-airport-poverty-at-council-owned-airport/

Todays vacancies at https://www.london-luton.co.uk/corporate/working-at-lla

This was the first job from the above link that gave hours.

Sales Advisor Cashier (full time) -> 4 ON 2 OFF (rolling shift), 2 Early x 04:00 to 13:00, 2 Late 13:00 to 22:00, and 2 Day Off (includes weekends – rolling shift pattern)

This was the first job I found that mentioned a salary
Pay
· £8.46 p.h.

I know of young adults working at the airport on just over £6 per hour and a 17 year old on just over £4 an hour although I don’t think he can work night shifts.

boeing_eng

29th Oct 2019, 07:38

I agree 100% Spanish Eyes...... As a long term airport worker its obvious that the decent paid jobs are basically limited to Pilots, ATC staff, Engineers, Fire Fighters and some refueling staff.

The claim that Hazel Simmonds used in her TV interview last week that a new terminal would help to eradicate poverty in Luton is total rubbish! (around 75% of the above mentioned employees do not live
in the local area!) The minimum wage offered for the bulk of airport jobs is hardly going to turn Luton into a new Manhattan!

Captain_Caveman

29th Oct 2019, 08:26

Of course not all the jobs are well paid but there will also be pilot and cabin crew jobs as well, if there are extra aircraft for based airlines then also support jobs in the crew rooms, and HQ’s as well.

so your argument is because the majority of jobs won’t be well paid then there should be no expansion. You all seem to think the business park is a better idea than a second terminal. It wouldn’t be some high tech offering, more than likely more amazon style jobs as the flavour of the times is supply chain, logistics and next day deliveries..... or let’s just not have any jobs at all shall we ? Close down the airport and all the retail in the town, warehousing, transport staff, carers, cleaners, security guards etc and have everyone unemployed because the hours or pay offered isn’t at what you consider an acceptable level.

boeing_eng

29th Oct 2019, 09:38

Any expansion has to be balanced with all the other normal factors that come into play...... It should never be expansion at any cost!

There are several major UK Airports which would have quite happily expanded far more than where we are now if they had been allowed to do so. The difference is they have local Councils who actually listen and support the views of local residents etc (unlike LTN where the clear
conflict of interest with the council & airport ownership means that local residents are getting basically ignored!)

LGS6753

29th Oct 2019, 09:43

boeing -

The problem is that Luton Airport has a national infrastructure role, and is not just a local airport servicing local demand. Until a third runway is built at Heathrow - if it ever is - there will be pressure on the other London-area airports to add capacity.

boeing_eng

29th Oct 2019, 09:50

Indeed LGS...but just look at STN! It wants to grow to 43 million but the local council isn't now playing ball!

LGS6753

29th Oct 2019, 11:13

...but the local council at STN has no ownership conflicts of interest.

LTNman

29th Oct 2019, 11:16

The problem is that Luton Airport has a national infrastructure role, and is not just a local airport servicing local demand. Until a third runway is built at Heathrow - if it ever is - there will be pressure on the other London-area airports to add capacity.

It is a bit fanciful to hint that Luton would have a role in relieving pressure on Heathrow. Heathrow has been full for years while Luton has always had capacity. While airlines have been willing to pay millions for Heathrow slots they haven't exactly been falling over themselves for a touch of the Luton experience because they want more of London or is it that they really want the Heathrow connections?

LGS6753

29th Oct 2019, 11:16

LTNman -

What I meant was that, for example, EZY have said that with a third runway, they would move some services there. That would impact on Luton. Without that opportunity, Luton will remain stretched.

boeing_eng

29th Oct 2019, 13:09

...but the local council at STN has no ownership conflicts of interest.

My point exactly! Its surely going to get to a stage soon where the relationship between Luton Council and the airport is seriously looked at (especially considering some of the financial implications that the local council tax payers are just expected to swallow!)

LTNman

29th Oct 2019, 18:21

Up until now they have always voted on their own airport planning applications. Maybe all businesses and householders should submit their planning applications to themselves as well.

pabely

29th Oct 2019, 19:35

Just throwing this thought out there......MAG is 64.5% owned by 10 Manchester boroughs. Do they have same concerns? What if LBC offered to bring Herts onboard? They have even acknowledged the benefit Luton Airport brings to their region. Herts gets hit from LTN, LHR & STN so would give them a chance to influence a balanced approach to expansion.

LTNman

29th Oct 2019, 22:45

LLAL/LBC own land in Hertfordshire and even plan to put the replacement park in that country but that is as far as it goes. Herts won't be able to refuse as Luton intend to use the powers of a Development Consent Order

PAXboy

30th Oct 2019, 04:26

I have lived (mostly) in Western Herts for 35 years and know full well the benefits of the airport on the surrounding area. But the chance of Herts Council getting support from it's residents to buy into LTN? Not a chance. They should - but they won't.

LTNman

30th Oct 2019, 07:26

Why would residents want to buy into another councils debts? Council/LLAL borrowings and planned borrowings so far comes to over £450m for airport expansion projects and LLAL is still only in its consultation stage. Most of that money is for funding the Dart because the airport operator has refused and for building a 2.2km road into the park. If the DCO is refused by government the council/LLAL will be in deep sh!t.

The Dart was only ever required for a second terminal and with Luton capped and coping without it why has the council jumped the gun? Fully agree the Dart will be a game changer but it will not increase capacity as Luton will hit 18 million a year before it is finished.

PAXboy

30th Oct 2019, 21:04

If the Dart had a Park-n-Ride, I think that would reduce congestion. The single road in and out is the is unchanging pinch point, as we have discussed here before.

I think that Herts already benefits with jobs and services and it is in their interest to promote it. But I agree with the debt risk. As with so many other aspects of British infrastructure - we do it piecemeal and with no long term plan.

Buster the Bear

31st Oct 2019, 00:43

Are local services seeing cuts, as LBC service the interest on £450m?

Going to need a lot of passengers to help repay that debt, but I suppose York Aviation are the experts.

Spanish eyes

31st Oct 2019, 07:21

Are local services seeing cuts, as LBC service the interest on £450m?

Seems they are

The road to Terminal 2. Council cutbacks to pay annual interest charges as the council is funding the road.
https://stoplae.org/council-cutbacks-to-fund-terminal-2-access-routes/

The rail link. A cut in dividends as LLAL is carrying this debt
https://stoplae.org/the-dart-link-luton-council-paying-225-million/

Think we need some Hertfordshire County Council money, as they are benefiting from the airport without dipping into their pockets.

seer557

31st Oct 2019, 14:46

I am unclear as to how the LTN Airport Parkway station is going to cope with the extra throughput of airline passengers:
- more lifts?
- more escalators?..................
....the existing ones seem to break down with monotonous regularity.

And what will happen to rail commuters who use the Parkway MS car park when short hop flyers start using it, and the DART, in preference to battling with the airport traffic? Increased prices to dissuade flyers from using it? That will please the commuters no end.

Seer

LTNman

31st Oct 2019, 19:47

A new footbridge, escalators and lifts are all ready under construction on the Luton town side of the platforms so there will be two bridge crossings.

Airport parking is going to be provided by building 2 new multi stories on the Dart side of the railway track. The real issue is that the airport hope to increase rail passengers from around 2.7 million to over 12 million so there will be even less chance of getting a seat in Harpenden and St Albans although more passengers will start using the Luton Express which will be non stop before it carries on up north.

22/04

1st Nov 2019, 08:27

I wouldn't call Corby up north myself. how many charging points are there in the new and planned car parks?

LTNman

1st Nov 2019, 12:01

There is a whole bank of charging points in the existing multi story car park. Never seen a car connected through.
https://www.london-luton.co.uk/parking/electric-vehicle-charging

If the Dart had a Park-n-Ride, I think that would reduce congestion. The single road in and out is the is unchanging pinch point, as we have discussed here before.

Actually I can't remember the last time I have seen a traffic jam at the airport. Queues though in the rush hour on the A1081 but that is mainly commuter traffic and queues to get past the bridge supports in the direction of the M1 as there is a lane closed.

Even though I said the new drop off zone layout with its pedestrian crossings and traffic lights would end in tears it is looking like I don't know what I am talking about. With junctions everywhere in the drop off zone and cars facing all directions confused motorist are selecting random lanes for pick up and drop off. Did witness a massive family of 10 loading luggage and passengers into 2 cars that just stopped in the middle of a lane. The driver was apologising in very broken English but just carried on without a care in the world and was in no hurry either to the annoyance of drivers that had their route blocked.

pabely

1st Nov 2019, 12:42

I wouldn't call Corby up north myself.
The press releases about the new Express Trains said "Abellio has promised to make a £600 million investment into rail services, including the replacement of its fleet with 33 bi-mode trains built by Hitachi. that will link cities in the North and East Midlands to London St Pancras, as well as serving Luton, Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and Bedford."
Sounds like Noorf of Luton to me!

seer557

1st Nov 2019, 12:48

22/04

1st Nov 2019, 13:25

The press releases about the new Express Trains said "Abellio has promised to make a £600 million investment into rail services, including the replacement of its fleet with 33 bi-mode trains built by Hitachi. that will link cities in the North and East Midlands to London St Pancras, as well as serving Luton, Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and Bedford."=left
Sounds like Noorf of Luton to me!

Sorry but I didn't realise that intercity trains wil continue to call at Parkway. Looks like they will - bit not at Luton or Bedford stations

LTNman

1st Nov 2019, 16:25

Depends if you call Corby Intercity. There will be 3 East Midland Railway brands and Parkway is getting the EMR Electric brand. No mention of Luton Airport Express branding. The trains are second hand but updated and will look like commuter stock with a flat nose and tail.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/east-midlands-railway-announces-three-brands/54389.article

Class 360 stock and this is the previous owner
https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/19

LTNman

5th Nov 2019, 10:32

The Gateway Bridge is gradually being seen again after a few weeks of being wrapped in plastic sheeting. Street lights and crash barriers have been removed for the big move at the end of the month.
https://i.imgur.com/zslXgBM.jpg

Meanwhile at Parkway the passenger route to Kimpton Road from the railway station has been moved. Also as seen, the framework for the glass and sliding doors can be seen by the Dart platforms.
https://i.imgur.com/wnaLAGA.jpg.

Work has started on digging out Taxiway Bravo for the cut and cover Dart tunnel.
https://i.imgur.com/MbnrMhz.jpg

The dual carriageway inside the CTA has now moved to over the tunnel with also a reroute of the bus station road. The existing tunnel edge can be seen to the right of the airport bus at the road junction. The contractors have now taken control of the final piece of the Dart route.
https://i.imgur.com/6XO5Hlg.jpg

Finally the former drop off zone is now being marked out with parking bays. For who and why is a mystery
https://i.imgur.com/X9kA111.jpg

CAP A330

6th Nov 2019, 20:03

Wizz Passenger numbers to Scandinavia are still bleak

LTNman

7th Nov 2019, 04:55

Dannyboy39

7th Nov 2019, 05:11

Seems Wizz has discovered that rich Scandinavia is not in poor Eastern Europe. Saying that the old Copenhagen battle between EasyJet and Ryanair showed that £10 fares filled aircraft. Wonder how non-EU Russia is doing?
I don’t understand this anti Eastern Europe agenda?
Nothing to do with the intense competition on this route, especially going into the winter season where everyone loses money. Compare London to Oslo to London to Katowice - not exactly like for like in terms of capacity.

LTNman

7th Nov 2019, 06:42

I don’t understand this anti Eastern Europe agenda?

How can my comment be classed as an anti Eastern European agenda? Eastern Europeans have travelled to the UK to improve their standard of living as they generally live in poor counties otherwise they would not have come or have I got it all wrong???

Think you need to read this https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-poorest-countries-in-europe.html

CAP A330

9th Nov 2019, 04:41

Wiz to Russia is doing quite well, breaking 200 pax more often than not.

meanwhile BGO for example is usually less than 70..

pabely

9th Nov 2019, 07:43

Wiz to Russia is doing quite well, breaking 200 pax more often than not.

meanwhile BGO for example is usually less than 70..
Can't see them sticking around on BGO, how is St Petersburg doing? Flight times are terrible for pax, but great for airplane utilisation!

22/04

9th Nov 2019, 08:27

Can't see them sticking around on BGO, how is St Petersburg doing? Flight times are terrible for pax, but great for airplane utilisation!

They are terrible but not that unusual - both BA and Aeroflot operate to Moscow at similar times from LHR

boeing_eng

9th Nov 2019, 16:18

pamann

9th Nov 2019, 16:41

Well despite the report to the contrary from "a well placed TUI source" on here a few weeks back, I'm pleased to report that the TUI program for Winter 2020 & Summer 2021 is now on sale and features a program from LTN using TUI based aircraft!

Wasn’t their Leeds base on sale prior to them announcing it would close?

It is indeed a rumour, but a lot can change between now and Summer 2021.

boeing_eng

9th Nov 2019, 16:47

It was alluded in the original posting that the base would close at the end of Summer 2020...no rumour! As I mentioned at the time, more importantly no front-line TUI staff were aware of this and the company are actually basing a decent number of new captains at LTN for this coming Summer (with obviously no mention being made to them of any impending base closure!)

LTNman

9th Nov 2019, 21:56

The rumour was actually given to me as a fact by someone working for TUI in Wigmore House who would be in the know. I have no way to authenticate what I was told but this pre dates the Thomas Cook collapse.

boeing_eng

10th Nov 2019, 06:10

I appreciate the info was no doubt passed on in good faith LTNman. Obviously there would be major repercussions for a good number of TUI staff if the LTN base was to close and reading about such potential news here whilst nothing had been said by the company was naturally slightly concerning!

CAP A330

10th Nov 2019, 06:12

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x567/b76e9a35_e3a0_4145_822c_b7bd22189e56_b478ec30f31da933e71a988 7b74f6888f19fc12a.jpeg
LED also doing well enough

193 and 196

pabely

10th Nov 2019, 10:58

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x567/b76e9a35_e3a0_4145_822c_b7bd22189e56_b478ec30f31da933e71a988 7b74f6888f19fc12a.jpeg
LED also doing well enough

193 and 196
Interesting good figures, I assume the GDN was full with minors on laps?

davidjohnson6

10th Nov 2019, 15:07

Looks like they are having issues...
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/11/flybosnia-facing-internal-turmoil.html

Buster the Bear

10th Nov 2019, 19:57

Opens up a whole raft of possible new destinations.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/82988-wizz-air-shareholders-back-a321neoxlr-purchase

LTNman

12th Nov 2019, 06:54

I have noticed that the Gateway Bridge being finished off opposite the Ibis has picked up a temporary attached red aircraft warning light at the top of its ski ramp. Still can’t get my head around how such a tall structure (see photo post 3043) will end up by the end of the approach lights and just to their side when those approach lights are not even a full set but a much shorter version due to the location of the A1081.

Anyone with a long memory will remember the Dan Air 727 that took out not only the ILS aerials but also the approach lights as it dropped into the valley below. What would have happened if a Gateway type structure was there at the time?

LGS6753

12th Nov 2019, 08:22

Buster the Bear

12th Nov 2019, 11:01

LTNman

12th Nov 2019, 11:38

...and anyone without a long memory can read about it here:
https://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19740621-0

The picture of the light gantry in the report is instructive - compare the flimsy construction to the new bridge structure.

This is an old photo from a month ago as the blue supports have now gone. From close up it looks rather substantial to me with its cross member supports. The photo was taken before the red light appeared on its highest point.
https://i.imgur.com/uKByIk1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5My9usg.jpg

LTNman

13th Nov 2019, 08:03

This is the outline plan to expand the airport to around 22.5 million passengers.

Plans include another extension to the front of the terminal by building an extension that will sit at an angle and butt against the bus bays.
Expansion of the boarding gate area in the north of the exiting terminal
Renewal of the original boarding gate area to the western part of the terminal which is the former duty free shop and associated wooden structure.
New pier and apron opposite the new multi story car park and drop off area.

Quart and pint pots come to mind as there is no expansion to the departure lounge. I make this terminal extension number 17 as the original terminal is still in use.
Also no sooner will the CTA be finished with the Dart in 2021 then construction within the CTA would well start all over again.

https://i.imgur.com/3WA7tM5.jpg

Falcon666

13th Nov 2019, 13:54

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/3161e4df_98ae_4974_a6ff_f5bff855c077_66e2ec7883640815ca8a4cf 9d1922b293cdebf4e.png
These are taken from the documentation last month
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/44f0ebe3_698e_441b_b0b9_22a561e39354_88d8f3ca9213b6add9e92c5 b4e60c097a064faf8.png

pabely

13th Nov 2019, 18:16

The six pack to the East of the runup bay is shown in grey because it already committed to with an approved tender?

PAXboy

13th Nov 2019, 20:10

Heh heh. Good old English planning. Bit by Bit, make it up as we go along, hoping no one will notice. Same process for the M25, they applied for all the sections piecemeal.

I like the non-English: "Section 1.4 describes the process of optioneering ..." great jargon.

LTNman

13th Nov 2019, 21:26

The six pack to the East of the runup bay is shown in grey because it already committed to with an approved tender?

LLAOL claim this is part of the original application for 18 million passengers but was never built. They have been taking a leaf out of the councils book of dishonesty as they try to hoodwink people with deception and lies.

Also it is not 32 million it is 38 million but the council cannot admit it otherwise it will cost them a lot of money. By applying for 32 million and then adding another 6 million later they don’t become liable for big bills away from the airport for major infrastructure projects needed to support a bigger airport.

JW95

14th Nov 2019, 11:22

Just had a read over the proposed plans for terminal 2 in the 'Future Luton Scheme development' report and it looks as though LTN is finally set to have jet bridges on both new piers when it opens. I'm sure that many people on here (as well as passengers and airlines) will agree that this is a long overdue and welcome change. A definite step in the right direction. Airlines such as LY, EZY and TUI frequently use jet bridges at other airports, so I'm sure that they'll welcome the news. Even W6 use them some of the airports they serve (e.g. LGW, OTP, FRA), so will be interesting to see if they opt in to use them at LTN, especially given that they are the second biggest carrier here now.

Also, I note that the report mentions nine new stands will be capable of servicing long haul aircraft, namely 787 and 359, but realistically cannot see these coming to the airport anytime soon, at least on a regularly scheduled basis. Although perhaps TUI might consider offering seasonal LTN-SFB/LTN-MLB flights at some point?

Certainly, interesting times ahead for LTN.

LTNman

14th Nov 2019, 15:11

The report actually says air bridges if required by airlines. What that has meant in the past is that if airlines pay for them which they won’t.

The artists impression of the new terminal front is just that, an impression that won’t be delivered. History has taught us that what is proposed and what is actually built is very different so I cannot even be bothered to reproduce a fantasy photo here that will never be built.

pabely

14th Nov 2019, 18:51

Also, I note that the report mentions nine new stands will be capable of servicing long haul aircraft, namely 787 and 359, but realistically cannot see these coming to the airport anytime soon, at least on a regularly scheduled basis.
Not without a starter strip.......the 321XLR might work for WZZ then!

LTNman

18th Nov 2019, 10:20

Railings have been attached to the curved Gateway bridge which is now just waiting for the painting to be finished before the big move. Careful examination shows the temporary power cable for the red aircraft warning light
https://i.imgur.com/nm3NH9m.jpg

Taxiway Bravo continues to be dug out. In the distance to the right of the departing Wizz sheeting for a shallow Dart trench is being piled in the mid term car park. In the top right hand corner can be seen the Gateway Bridge
https://i.imgur.com/EjXezqq.jpg

One part of the twin Dart tunnel
https://i.imgur.com/lrk70hw.jpg

Central station is getting its roof supports installed plus the beams to keep the walls apart.
https://i.imgur.com/6i6msFC.jpg

Maintenance area for Dart has had its temporary yellow jacks removed
https://i.imgur.com/GFMhRlz.jpg

Bus station seems to be growing wider with a new wall going in. A non-commissioned bus bay has finally been completed with what looks like another one being built.
https://i.imgur.com/YXpiueJ.jpg

LGS6753

18th Nov 2019, 13:02

During the regular weekend night closure, are flights being brought forward/backwards to avoid the closure period, not operated at all, or being moved elsewhere?

LTNman

18th Nov 2019, 15:56

What night closures? There was/is one closure this month due to annual maintenance. Don't know of anything else

PAXboy

18th Nov 2019, 16:23

As jet bridges enforce a one person at a time method thst slow things down, why have them for LCC? As per recent boarding thread in PAX forum.

VickersVicount

18th Nov 2019, 16:42

As jet bridges enforce a one person at a time method thst slow things down, why have them for LCC? As per recent boarding thread in PAX forum.
At the stage of an airbridge that close to an aircraft doesn't any method (including flimsy external integral aircraft airstairs) mean 'one person at a time' ? Ive certainly been down an airbridge with another in parallel?

Dannyboy39

18th Nov 2019, 17:03

At the stage of an airbridge that close to an aircraft doesn't any method (including flimsy external integral aircraft airstairs) mean 'one person at a time' ? Ive certainly been down an airbridge with another in parallel?

Or they’re built like at LGW and the passengers using the aft door still use the stairs

LGS6753

18th Nov 2019, 18:35

There was one (night closure) this last weekend. I had thought it was weekly during November - possibly mistakenly.

Falcon666

18th Nov 2019, 21:22

There was one (night closure) this last weekend. I had thought it was weekly during November - possibly mistakenly.

Original NOTAM had two consecutive weekends overnight closures for annual runway maintenance.
This has now finished.

LTNman

18th Nov 2019, 22:02

I only saw one closure listed for one night although another date could have been listed after the first one ended as I didn’t take much notice of the actual date. There was plenty of notice given including a date for the annual runway charity run.

PAXboy

19th Nov 2019, 03:15

When the pax reach the aircraft door, it is one at a time. If you load with rear stairs as well, it improves matters greatly.

Yesterday I was boarding a BA 320 and we all filed on from the air brudge in time honoured fashion, with all the locker packing delays we know so well.

LGS6753

19th Nov 2019, 07:53

Blue Air in S20 are retrenching to Romanian destinations only, dropping Turin and Larnaca.
Schedule shows Bacau 6pw, Bucharest 11 and Iasi 3.

pabely

19th Nov 2019, 18:30

Blue Air in S20 are retrenching to Romanian destinations only, dropping Turin and Larnaca.
Schedule shows Bacau 6pw, Bucharest 11 and Iasi 3.
Can't compete with Wizzair on Larnaca, but nobody else does Turin, thought that might remain.

compton3bravo

20th Nov 2019, 16:05

Not too surprised about BlueAir. Still cannot understand that nobody (except Ryanair a few times a week) flies to Bulgaria's second largest city Plovdiv with a catchment area of 1.5 million. There must be a 'problem' with the airport authorities as Wizz and easyJet do not operate any services from there. Also it is a 12 month destination with skiing in the winter months.

LTNman

21st Nov 2019, 05:07

Might have something to do with this https://150sec.com/fastest-shrinking-population-what-does-this-mean-for-bulgaria/11022/

dvc

25th Nov 2019, 08:25

Blue Air in S20 are retrenching to Romanian destinations only, dropping Turin and Larnaca.
Schedule shows Bacau 6pw, Bucharest 11 and Iasi 3.
That's surprising they're dropping Larnaca. It's always packed. Last summer they positioned an ac from LPL few times to fly to Larnaca in pairs.

LGS6753

25th Nov 2019, 10:11

Blue Air are flying Larnaca to Athens, Heraklion and Thessalonika in S20, together with routes to Romania. I suspect this amounts to a reduction in services ex-Larnaca.

davidjohnson6

26th Nov 2019, 00:40

LTNman

26th Nov 2019, 06:13

They lost their Heathrow slot in or around February. They will introduce a weekly services starting next Tuesday although it can’t be booked via the airline.

ATNotts

26th Nov 2019, 07:20

Turkmenistan Airlines to start flying from Luton to Ashgabat from December 2019
Perhaps a bit random, but it's an airline with pax that is unlikely to go bust so I imagine the airport will happily sign up T5 as a customer...

Given the proximity of LTN to BHX, I really question why T5 feel the need to serve both airports. Pre the European ban they had a much larger, and very long standing operating in BHX, and undoubtedly long term relationships with many of the specialist travel agents in the Midlands. Clearly there is a market from the North London hotspots and a similar network of agents with whom they will have been working previously, but I would have though that they may have been better directing those London agents towards the BHX operation. Funny that in the Midlands and Norther we're "expected" to travel to London, but London passengers apparently can't travel in the other direction to catch their flights!

davidjohnson6

26th Nov 2019, 07:57

Years ago, I flew to Ashgabat with Lufthansa - the plane was full of Brits and Americans sent to work in Ashgabat as some sort of well-paid purgatory in engineering/hydrocarbon sectors. Does this corporate demand still exist from London ?

LGS6753

26th Nov 2019, 19:17

Now being told that Luton will not be able to accept the Turkmenistan service as they are up against the 18 million pax cap. Apparently Air India was sent to STN for the same reason.

pabely

26th Nov 2019, 20:35

Now being told that Luton will not be able to accept the Turkmenistan service as they are up against the 18 million pax cap.
I thought it was only once a week to start with and with Blue Air reductions.
PS Don't say that about Air India, you will get a reaction.😀

LTNman

26th Nov 2019, 22:16

Some say that the airport has actually got to cut flights to stay within 18 million rather than just say no to new airlines.

Lee Baker Street

27th Nov 2019, 01:55

Some say that the airport has actually got to cut flights to stay within 18 million rather than just say no to new airlines.

Development Control Committee 21 November 2013 / Controls over Operations / Environment:

Section 12. At no time shall the passenger throughput exceed 18 million passengers per annum unless express consent is obtained from the local planning authority.

I take it that Luton Borough Council can, should they wish to do so, authorise the airport to exceed passenger levels at a marginal level to accomodate all the scheduled operations until midnight of 31st December 2019.

From January 1st 2019 until end of September 2019 the accumulated passenger levels (publicly reported) have greatly exceeded last years same period which means any growth for October and November and December will mean the 18 million mark will be reached around mid December which begs the question will the airport cancel all flights after that date? I certainly don’t think so.

LTNman

27th Nov 2019, 06:27

Explains nicely why for commercial reasons LLAOL has put in a planning application to the council to exceed this limit. By law the planning committee is meant to be independent of the council but in reality takes orders from those running the council as it is their airport. Many eyes are watching this application with the council under pressure to not only turn it down but to also turn down another planning application to exceed night time noise limits that were breached for 2 consecutive years. In that case the council did nothing to enforce the planning rule as they were too busy counting the extra money those breaches earned the council. This brings a whole new meaning to the phrase having its fingers in the till.

Worth noting that in the planning summery for 32 million, which the council is dishing out to the masses at consultation events, the council states that night movements will not increase above existing limits yet even before the ink is dry LLAOL wants to increase this limit.

Yahoo!®

27th Nov 2019, 17:46

I’m all for it. Expand expand expand. If you don’t like the noise, shouldn’t have bought a house near an airport.

BHX5DME

27th Nov 2019, 18:44

I’m all for it. Expand expand expand. If you don’t like the noise, shouldn’t have bought a house near an airport.

As at 30.09.19 - 12m rolling pax was 17,978,237

LTNman

27th Nov 2019, 19:10

I’m all for it. Expand expand expand. If you don’t like the noise, shouldn’t have bought a house near an airport.

There are not many posts on PPRuNe that get me into a rage but the above is one of them so I apologise from my lack of tolerance when I have stated how tolerant this thread is to different view points.

Now my rant
Only someone who is intellectually challenged and ignorant would write such a comment. So how near is too near that they should not complain?

For a start the locals bought homes next to a 70 acre park and not an airport that wants to mug the residents of their park. Secondly people can live miles from an airport and be impacted by aircraft noise whether by new flight paths or just a massive increase in movements.

Then there is the environmental impact. Have you not heard of climate change and what that could do to the world or is it a case that you really don't care?

Oh I said in my last post that the airport had broken night noise limits for 2 years. It was actually 3.

pabely

27th Nov 2019, 19:38

An interesting read on the ACL slot coordinators web site about S20 slots, if the limits are to be pushed upwards, aka 19M pax limit next year, it will need to be in place by 15th Jan 2020 then two week period of republished slot allocations after allocation to airlines on waiting list, or that's the way I read it.

LTNman

27th Nov 2019, 19:54

It won't happen as the airport has already put in place a seat cap from April to October 2020 and a maximum daily seat cap is envisaged for summer 2021 onwards . The effect of these caps will be that in order to introduce higher capacity aircraft the carriers will have to cut movements so the airport will end up with spare slots it can't use although this could benefit biz jets

Buster the Bear

27th Nov 2019, 20:43

I’m all for it. Expand expand expand. If you don’t like the noise, shouldn’t have bought a house near an airport.

How about those that have lived close to the airport, suffered in silence and then discover Tinminal 2 is going to built on their door step and huge new fuel farm created with dozens and dozens of extra tanker trips to Buncefield. Add in the noise and pollution created by cars, service vehicles, ground power units and aircraft engines.

Please do check your facts first.

AirportPlanner1

27th Nov 2019, 21:50

Well in terms of needing to lose some flights, Vueling have slots at STN next summer for CDG and La Coruna. Would they really maintain a minimal presence at both LTN and STN ?

pabely

27th Nov 2019, 22:13

Well in terms of needing to lose some flights, Vueling have slots at STN next summer for CDG and La Coruna. Would they really maintain a minimal presence at both LTN and STN ?
If they did decamp their LTN operation to STN there slots would gladly be taken by others. I'm sure EZY would love to see them off the AMS route, fairs would rise on what is the No1 route from Luton.

LTNman

28th Nov 2019, 04:36

Vacant slots would not necessarily be taken due to the seat cap. So how would a seat cap actually work as scheduled aircraft don’t normally fly full? Clearly the cap can’t be set at 18 million available seats as less than 18 million passengers would use them. If the cap was set at 18,800,000 seats to allow for say a 90% occupancy what would happen if 95% of seats were filled? Will airlines each have their own quota? Can quotas be traded.

The caping requirement for 2020 and above appears on new documentation for the proposals to increase noise at the airport for 5 years due to a lack of neo aircraft operating out of Luton. The documentation also states that due to the ban on Max aircraft Easyjet want to hang on to their A319’s for longer as they see an opportunity to increase business.

The planning application for new noise limits is now out for fresh consultations so a decision won’t be made until 2020.

The airport operator now only wants to increase noise at night and not during the day despite daytime levels nearly being reached. Does this mean the separate planning application for 19 million can only happen even if approved when more neo aircraft come to Luton?

alm1

28th Nov 2019, 07:53

Does LTN have shortage of departure slots in the evenings. Wizz Air changed schedulle of flighs VNO-LTN from 9 December, moving them a bit earlier but LTN-VNO was left as is at 21:50. Now Vilnius aircraft has turnaround time of almost two hours on some days instead of usual 40 minutes for a 321. Will they be able to keep aircraft for two hours at a gate?

cj241101

28th Nov 2019, 10:39

I’m all for it. Expand expand expand. If you don’t like the noise, shouldn’t have bought a house near an airport.

Sometimes people put inappropriate comments on forums out of ignorance. Sometimes they are in the category or "internet trolls" and post inflammatory comments designed to aggravate knowing they can cower anonymously behind their keyboard. Yahoo!® which are you?
I don't live close enough to the airport to be affected by the increased noise and pollution the planned expansion will cause. Having worked there for 40+ years I have always been in favour of expansion. Not this time. The current plan is ill-conceived to the point of stupidity. Enough is enough. Build T2 elsewhere, preferably south of the runway.

boeing_eng

28th Nov 2019, 12:02

Yahoo!® has mentioned working at LTN in the past, (so it could in reality be LLA given the "expand at any cost" mentality!)

As another long-time airport worker it is painful just how ridiculous the proposed T2 plans are. LBC/LLA need to finally accept the many limitations the current airport site has and stop wasting local Council tax payers money on this current T2 joke!

davidjohnson6

28th Nov 2019, 12:17

Boeing_eng - you may well be right in your judgment. However the lure of cold hard cash can tempt a lot of people to do suboptimal things...

compton3bravo

28th Nov 2019, 13:21

Could well be an aircraft change alm1 regarding the Vilnius service. Regarding Turkmenistan Airlines new weekly service I would have thought they would have checked the operation of the service I.e. with thought to passenger numbers but there again we are talking about London Luton Airport!

compton3bravo

28th Nov 2019, 13:33

Apologies if it has already been me mentioned Sharm el Sheikh is back on the destination board with a weekly TUI flight commencing 5 November 2020.

LGS6753

28th Nov 2019, 15:10

The expansion debate needs to be seen in the context of UK transport policy, or lack of it. I'm afraid Britain is very bad at successful forward planning, mainly I think because it is very crowded - particularly in the south-east. The fact is that all our major airports are overcrowded, but by good (short-term) management, cope with huge demand. The same applies to the London underground, the roads network and railways.
As long as people want/need to travel, facilities should be made available for them to do so. I will not address the climate change hysteria, as that brings in a whole lot of new questions and unconsidered possibilities.
Heathrow is overcrowded, as are Gatwick and Stansted. Yet there is still more demand for air services to/from London, to the extent that Southend has picked up a chunk of the market despite its location and limitations.
It makes sense to build new infrastructure to cope with the demand, and that can only happen at existing airports. I'm sure Luton will get its cap increased eventually, but the current T2 proposal looks like putting several quarts into a pint pot. Unfortunately, local government parochialism is preventing Luton from building new infrastructure in the obvious place - south of the runway.
I would hope that common sense prevails, and that sensible expansion can be approved. Aircraft have become much quieter since the first One-Elevens and 737-200s arrived in the late sixties and that trend continues with the neos. Surely growth can be accompanied by noise abatement planning requirements - for example, if you can't operate neos, you can't come in. And surely some of the noise nuisance caused by large corporate aircraft can be "re-allocated" to passenger airliners.

BHX5DME

28th Nov 2019, 15:42

As you would expect a very small increase in seats due to 18m pa cap

Easyjet = 5,680,572

Wizz = 5,569,074

Ryanair = 1,644,300

Blue Air = 264,205

Tui = 205,980

ElAl = 120,812

Vueling = 109,680

Level = 83,120

Sun Express = 63,126
https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/LTN-S20-Initial-Coordination-Report.pdf

LGS6753

28th Nov 2019, 15:57

Why the big reduction by DHL if the allocation is because of the passenger cap?

LTNman

28th Nov 2019, 17:35

Last year in the summer peak, Wizz has had a couple of departures before 6am thus cutting into the night noise restriction period, which is subject to next years planning application to increase the noise limit. This seemed to be down to the fact that once the clock hits 6am the airport has a lack of slots for a couple of hours. With this in mind I would then have expected that in the winter season Wizz would move those departures to after 6am to save this limited resource but no they just carry on. Tomorrow for example there are two 5:30 departures yet there are only 3 departures between 6:00 and 6:24. They don't seem to be putting much effort into helping themselves.

pabely

28th Nov 2019, 17:52

Why the big reduction by DHL if the allocation is because of the passenger cap?
I don't think they used all of them S19 so more likely just a more realistic slot allocation.
No Fly Bosnia!

pabely

28th Nov 2019, 18:00

compton3bravo

29th Nov 2019, 03:41

OCTOBER PASSENGER STATISTICS
A total of 1,643,040 passengers used the airport in October s rise of 8.4% on October 2018. The rolling 12 month figure is 17,917,519 up 10.2%. The total for the first ten months of 2019 is 15,524,308 up 9.4%. Could somebody verify is the 18 million cap on a rolling 12 month period or over a 12 month period 1 Jan to 31 December.

LTNman

29th Nov 2019, 05:49

The cap would mean the end of one off charter flights like for football matches, Formula one etc I would have thought unless some capped seats were held back. Also will it be a variable monthly cap so the seats don’t get taken too quickly or a yearly cap?

Also, and this is the real big one to consider, if the trend is upwards as last months 10% increase is indicating then airlines will have to cut services by 10% to stop further increases and to get a growth rate of zero. Last year it was the biz jets that got cut back, now it is the airlines turn.

ericlday

29th Nov 2019, 07:10

Luton loss will be another Airports gain. Sad that a successful and thriving business is not allowed to expand.

Planespeaking

29th Nov 2019, 07:24

Luton loss will be another Airports gain. Sad that a successful and thriving business is not allowed to expand.
SEN could perhaps pick up some of the demand, however that could be tempered by runway performance.

Also SEN has considerable local support, but that could easily be put under strain if the infrastructure around the airport becomes heavily overstretched.

compton3bravo

29th Nov 2019, 07:49

Next summer we have Euro 2020 with England playing three games at Wembley in June and then the two semi-finals and finals also at Wembley in the first two weeks of July. So for example if Spain and Germany meet in the final all London airport's airports are going to have logistical problems, except of course if England play Wales in the final! Also there will be a large executive jet movement with the Wimbledon men's final taking place on the same day and the Open Golf Championship at Royal At George's in Kent commencing in the middle of following week as is the British Grand Prix at Silverstone! Some planning there.
Regarding the cap I think some fudge will occur letting the figure go over the limit - only temporary mind!!

LTNman

29th Nov 2019, 10:41

Parkway Dart station is receiving its top floor. Are the side walls going to be attached to the roof or will there be a gap like at the terminal station?
https://i.imgur.com/WSB5ILo.jpg

Taken a couple of days ago. The Gateway Bridge is now on jacks with Thunderbirds 2 heavy movers being assembled (remember Fire Flash?)
https://i.imgur.com/HcNFGrL.jpg

Taken today. All is ready for the big move that starts tonight. The bridge never did get painted so will have to be done after installation.
https://i.imgur.com/su9Oral.jpg

With one lane closed on the dual carriageway from the Ibis this was the queue this morning. From 8pm tonight until Monday morning the airports main access road will be closed as will the A1081 to Hitchin in both directions. The diversion route is torturous with many junctions and a retail park so expect massive delays back to the M1.
https://i.imgur.com/C2LBEji.jpg

Above the Dart maintenance area
https://i.imgur.com/xnrOQ0J.jpg

PAXboy

29th Nov 2019, 11:53

Forgive a dumb question: I have not paid too much attention to this bridge but now, on closer viewing of the new pic: It look slike the 'swoop' on the top is just that - a swoop for decoration? When viewed from a distance, I had presume that was a functional part of it - but it looks as if they are going to put a whole chunck of concrete close to the flight path for ... what?

LTNman

29th Nov 2019, 12:12

Yes it is for decoration. You have to remember the airport operator isn't paying for this otherwise it would have been a standard bridge made out of second hand matchsticks. The council has borrowed the £225 million for the Dart and wants something fancy. The ski slope will be back lit with LED lighting so it looks nice at night. Oh and the high bit is by the approach lights end which isn't even a full set of lights due to the road below and is less than half the length of the 26 end. If you look carefully the approach lights are on the left so the top of the bridge will make an interesting obstacle. I always thought approach lights were designed to snap off if hit by an aircraft.
https://i.imgur.com/bk9mrSL.jpg

pabely

29th Nov 2019, 12:30

Taken a couple of days ago. The Gateway Bridge is now on jacks with Thunderbirds 2 heavy movers being assembled (remember Fire Flash?)
https://i.imgur.com/HcNFGrL.jpg

Reminds me of Fireball XL5, or am I going back too far for most?

LTNman

29th Nov 2019, 12:48

There you go, it has two uses. Wonder if the UK Space Agency is chipping in
https://i.imgur.com/Z7bC8IZ.jpg

boeing_eng

29th Nov 2019, 15:07

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x490/park1_9ffcab8f33e9b1c7a667bcb65fe305ac700d9ab1.jpg
The major infilling earthworks continue near holding point A1.....quite a bit of the original stockpile has been used!

LTNman

29th Nov 2019, 15:53

They are so short of earth to level the ground for expansion they need to dig their own quarry and import 4 million cubic metres of soil. The average dumber truck carries 7 -10 cubic metres so that is 400,000 trips from the quarry and 400,000 trips to the quarry. As for the cost to move so much earth they're not saying. Not that I want airport expansion but the ground south of the runway is level with the runway but apart from a small chunk of land is outside the towns boundary so the council is not interested. That woodland that can be seen to the left which has tree tops level with the runway would be buried.

Changing the subject the Dart bridge is 26.5m high

BlueA330

29th Nov 2019, 20:55

It’s a shame the detailed passenger figures for each destination has gone . I suppose now they are reaching their limit the less they want us to know

Buster the Bear

29th Nov 2019, 23:09

G-AOVS soldiers on.

SLAE getting quite a bit of press now, or so I am told. Dart cost a conservative £225m, any idea how 18m pax per year will pay this back plus interest?

How can a Town Hall borrow this and might it affect the services that LBC provides to the folk that own the airport, the Council Tax payers?

LTNman

30th Nov 2019, 05:01

https://stoplae.org/council-leader-tries-to-justify-out-of-control-airport-spending/

https://stoplae.org/the-dart-link-luton-council-paying-225-million/

The aim is to get 34% of those 18 million to use the Dart. With a return fare costing £1.90 each way on the shuttle bus the maths don’t really add up as the debt will have yearly interest charges applied of several million and then there is the maintenance contract cost to consider plus any staff employed on the Dart. No wonder the rail operators, network rail and the airport operator all said no to any funding leaving it to the council to fund.

SLAE certainly ask the questions the council would prefer not to answer. The Council have always claimed their plans for a second terminal was not the motivation for spending £225 million for the first part of the Dart to T1. They claim it is being built to reduce traffic but fail to mention that if a second terminal is built, using their own figures, road traffic will increase by 70% despite the Dart.

There is no doubt the Dart is a game changer for Luton, as the shuttle bus is a nightmare, but seeing the airport has reached capacity without it why are they spending £225 million? Its construction is all about serving a second terminal but the council is so dishonest they will never admit the truth.

The Council is planning to spend £460 million on the Dart, the new airport access road, and the DCO that is required for a planning application to government. Bad news for the council if they don’t get planning permission as it will have been money wasted.

ETOPS

30th Nov 2019, 07:09

Bad news for the council if they don’t get planning permission

Eh? Are you saying they will have to apply to themselves and that they might refuse to grant permission for their own scheme?

LTNman

30th Nov 2019, 07:34

Eh? Are you saying they will have to apply to themselves and that they might refuse to grant permission for their own scheme?

This time they can't vote through their own planning application via its dodgy planning committee as it is so big it is of national significance so it will go to government to decide. Which government no one knows which must be a major concern to the council but they are too far down the path of spending money to turn back.

They voted through the Dart and the access road by putting in separate planning applications as they were sneaky. There is an argument that the road and the Dart should have been part of the Development Consent Order.

ETOPS

30th Nov 2019, 08:04

I guess they will be hoping for a Conservative win.

pabely

30th Nov 2019, 08:28

I guess they will be hoping for a Conservative win.
LBC is a Labour controlled Council, bazzare isn't it!

Dannyboy39

30th Nov 2019, 09:13

Isn’t it time that the airport was sold off by the council anyway? Surely that £1bn would be a good nest egg to improve local services.

Lee Baker Street

30th Nov 2019, 09:35

davidjohnson6

30th Nov 2019, 10:21

Dannyboy - If Luton Council were to suddenly find itself with a £1bn pile of cash, I imagine all kinds of corrupt people would suddenly appear wanting a slice. Think of the poor man who wins the lottery, goes crazy with spending, burns through their winnings in 10 years and finds themselves broke at the end of it. The current structure of receiving a more modest annual dividend keeps Luton council from getting too excitable

Norway used to be a poor country until the 1950s. They had the self control to set up a trust fund for all the money from oil/gas - so that when the North Sea reserves run out, there would be something as a fallback for their economy. There are other countries in the world where Govt has been spendthrift with oil revenues and it all ended up in tears.
I doubt Luton councillors hoping for re-election have the same degree of self-control - and even if they do, Westminster might find itself looking greedily at the cash with its own ways of squeezing LBC

LTNman

30th Nov 2019, 10:23

As the bridge gently draws closer to its final resting place I can see that it’s highest point is around 25 to 30 feet lower than the runway height.

That’s an interesting observation. Need a sideways view to confirm from the closed footpath. Hard to believe it would be jutting out.

LTNman

30th Nov 2019, 10:33

If the airport had been sold off years ago I cannot see a situation where the council would allow one of the towns major parks to be built on for the benefit of that company.

LTNman

30th Nov 2019, 12:35

Seems the airport operating company is claiming the glory when it is LLAL/ the council that is paying for it.

The first phase of the bridge move is now complete. This afternoon it will be slowly turned before it is jacked onto its parapets tomorrow.

Might explain why Lee Baker Street has observed it is sitting below the runway
https://i.imgur.com/7T3cHQg.jpg

Traffic looks rather bad. Wonder how many people will miss their flights this weekend. The jams keep moving with different stretches of road affected and in different directions.
https://i.imgur.com/PndhpxZ.jpg

BHX5DME

30th Nov 2019, 16:26

It’s a shame the detailed passenger figures for each destination has gone . I suppose now they are reaching their limit the less they want us to know

The figures on the Luton site must be just terminal pax and the figures from the CAA show the rolling 12m as at 31.10.19 - well over 18m !

Nov 18 = 1,127,219
Dec 18 = 1,274,297
Jan 19 = 1,156,359
Feb 19 = 1,191,996
Mar 19 = 1,352,217
Apr 19 = 1,554,456
May 19 = 1,660,158
Jun 19 = 1,697,198
Jul 19 = 1,808,237
Aug 19 = 1,897,129
Sept 19 = 1,733,012
Oct 19 = 1,643,040 - Luton's number / CAA not out yet

18,095,318

pabely

1st Dec 2019, 11:04

I suppose Luton will only get additional noice complaints this week because of the NATO summit in Watford this week and unusual routings to avoid temp exclusion zones, but then again some additional works for the FBOs

pabely

1st Dec 2019, 18:46

19:30 A1081 reopens ahead of shedule 👌

LTNman

1st Dec 2019, 21:56

Plans to turn the TUI HQ into 184 1, 2, 3 and 4 bedroom flats.

Buster the Bear

1st Dec 2019, 22:23

Well I can understand TUI wanting to move out with a planned noisy terminal close by. I guess their staff car park will become part of T2?

LTNman

1st Dec 2019, 22:56

Yes their overflow car park, which is on the edge of Wigmore Park, would disappear as a dual carriageway would pass through the middle of it.

It doesn’t seem that long ago that they relocated out of London to Wigmore House but I guess it is a few years now.

ExpectmorePayless

2nd Dec 2019, 16:35

Plans to turn the TUI HQ into 184 1, 2, 3 and 4 bedroom flats.
So where and when is the TUI HQ relocating ?

LGS6753

2nd Dec 2019, 18:55

TUI have a large office presence in Coventry afaik.

LTNman

2nd Dec 2019, 20:02

Staff have been told they have 7 years on their lease so they are not going anywhere yet detailed plans have been submitted to LBC for change of use together with a set of conversion plans

LTNman

2nd Dec 2019, 20:11

The move

https://youtu.be/0vS3Yrm0C5s

LGS6753

3rd Dec 2019, 08:13

The Turkmenistan Airlines inaugural flight does not appear on the Arrivals board for today. However, a quick search finds it listed at Gatwick, but "Cancelled".
Today shows a Fly Bosnia flight live - despite that they retrenched to Sat/Sun only a few weeks ago.

LGS6753

3rd Dec 2019, 09:40

Looks like the Polish and Czech Governments are using Luton to access the NATO summit. A Czech A319, together with Polish G550, E195 and C295 are here, or on the way.

LTNman

3rd Dec 2019, 10:55

The Turkmenistan Airlines inaugural flight does not appear on the Arrivals board for today. However, a quick search finds it listed at Gatwick, but "Cancelled".
.

Someone at the airport has stated the airline is not coming to Luton as they have not secured a slot.

cj241101

3rd Dec 2019, 13:16

Today shows a Fly Bosnia flight live - despite that they retrenched to Sat/Sun only a few weeks ago.

Quick check on FR24 confirms Fly Bosnia operate on Tue and Sat, has been that since the clocks changed on 27th Oct.

cj241101

3rd Dec 2019, 14:11

The Turkmenistan Airlines inaugural flight does not appear on the Arrivals board for today..
The EU lifted its ban on the airline on 17th October, with flights to Birmingham and Frankfurt having resumed early last month.

PAXboy

3rd Dec 2019, 16:35

OltonPete

3rd Dec 2019, 17:13

The EU lifted its ban on the airline on 17th October, with flights to Birmingham and Frankfurt having resumed early last month.

BHX has seen a Turkmenistan flight for months and they are still not taking bookings despite the fact that flights are loaded into GDS and visible.

The last I heard the revised target was Friday 13th for a restart date.

Pete

LTNman

3rd Dec 2019, 18:07

I drove under the new bridge yesterday. That 'swoosh' going no where is a heck of a lot of money for a gesture. The extra weight alone would have increased costs and complexity of the foundations. I sure hope the pax who will ultimately pay for it are impressed ...

It has yet to be back lit with lots of blue LED's which come later. The Dart is not costing the airport operator anything as they would not chip in nor has there been a passenger levy to cover the £225 cost. Yes it is all down to the towns council tax payers as the council has already admitted there will be a cut in the dividend to cover the loans the council has taken out.

Should I complain when I have been so critical of how the airport operator cuts building cost to the bone with its cheap construction and materials?. With the council funding the Dart money is no object.

Comments from the architects with artist impressions

https://www.knightarchitects.co.uk/projects/london-luton-airport-gateway

Signposting a modern airway experienceLike airports, the London Luton Gateway Bridge has been designed as a gateway to a destination. Forming a part of the Airport’s forthcoming rapid transit system, the bridge carries passengers from the proposed Parkway Station directly to the terminal beyond.

An airport is an asymmetric experience; half a journey; a departure or an arrival. As such, an asymmetric structure was sought, which would draw they eye skywards to the journey ahead. Spanning 72m across the busy Airport Way, the truss is primarily viewed from below, against the backdrop of the sky. Its top chord traces a parabola which springs tangentially from the deck, before tapering to a slender profile which appears to fade into the distance. This parabolic elevational rise, combined with the plan-curve of the bridge strikes a dynamic and elegant arc in the sky, which suits the moving viewpoint of the both the road and MPT users.

As night falls, the top-chord becomes illuminated with an active-LED system. Unlike traditional lighting systems for gateway bridges, which are illuminated from below, the LED system will be attached directly to the structure and aimed downwards. This allows the lighting system to safely operate in its airport environment, without interfering with the functional lighting behind.

pabely

3rd Dec 2019, 18:49

On another topic, an old friend routing back from US tonight ex Thomsonfly 738 which is now used by El Al, surprised there is room for it overnight unless it's a crew change & slash & dash!

PAXboy

4th Dec 2019, 03:07

Thanks LTNman. You pasted in some high quality BS there!

LTNman

4th Dec 2019, 03:48

Yes I was thinking the same. The author has used some mighty words in the description for what is basically a bridge across a dual carriageway. Also explains nicely why the bridge did not contain a couple of arches as that would have symbolised a bumpy landing.

The bridge was moved without being painted first. Either it will need scaffolding again or someone with a good head for heights will be needed with a mega cherrypicker. I assume the last option would need overnight road closures.

LGS6753

4th Dec 2019, 13:39

Also explains nicely why the bridge did not contain a couple of arches as that would have symbolised a bumpy landing.
Brilliant!

pabely

4th Dec 2019, 19:39

Gulfstream - whilst alot if engineering work is going to the new facility at Farnborough, parts is staying at Luton. Backup stock which was held in a warehouse near Heathrow has gone to Amsterdam. Will the parts work keep their hanger lease from Signature going?

LTNman

4th Dec 2019, 19:55

My contact has told me that Gulfstream are having real problems in getting staff to work in Farnborough which is causing them issues.

pabely

4th Dec 2019, 20:25

My contact has told me that Gulfstream are having real problems in getting staff to work in Farnborough which is causing them issues.
Doesn't surprise me. Just look at property prices around that area.

Buster the Bear

4th Dec 2019, 22:08

My contact has told me that Gulfstream are having real problems in getting staff to work in Farnborough which is causing them issues.

Gulfstream are continuing to warehouse a huge stock of parts at Luton, post any move to Hampshire.

Buster the Bear

4th Dec 2019, 22:16

On another topic, an old friend routing back from US tonight ex Thomsonfly 738 which is now used by El Al, surprised there is room for it overnight unless it's a crew change & slash & dash!

Post pickle fork mods in the USA.

dvc

9th Dec 2019, 08:47

My contact has told me that Gulfstream are having real problems in getting staff to work in Farnborough which is causing them issues.
From my sources Gulfstream won't be doing 650s here but everything else should stay as per usual.

LGS6753

9th Dec 2019, 10:45

First Wizzair flight to Castellon today.

LGS6753

9th Dec 2019, 15:09

As predicted:

Turkmenistan Airlines in the week of 08DEC19’s OAG (https://www.routesonline.com/track/u1kYL4eWtptd/n1EVnQBO8yiZ/) schedules update removed Ashgabat – London Luton route, originally filed as 1 weekly flight from 03DEC19. The airline first filed schedule for this route in late-November 2019, that shows service to be operated by Boeing 737-800.

From Airlineroute.

eye2eye5

9th Dec 2019, 16:17

Does anyone on this forum have contacts in either Ops or the Fire Team? I'm trying to find someone who may be kind enough to remove an HF aerial from the old Redcoat Britannia to help with the restoration of G-ANCF at Speke.

PAXboy

9th Dec 2019, 19:21

eye2eye5 Check your PMs.

LTNman

11th Dec 2019, 05:49

My neighbour was returning on a Wizz flight from Romania, which according to him was full of Roma Gypsies although I am not sure this is relevant to the story. The Captain made an announcement that a stewardess mobile phone had gone missing and that no one was going to be allowed off the flight until it had been found. Sure enough when the phone hadn’t turned up the police boarded the flight as the Captain wanted all the passengers searched which they refused to do. After a stand off the passengers were allowed to disembark.

Manx

11th Dec 2019, 06:42

[QUOTE=LTNman;10636935]My neighbour was returning on a Wizz flight from Romania, which according to him was full of Roma Gypsies although I am not sure this is relevant to the story./QUOTE]
No it isn't. Not at all.🙄

Plane mad 134

11th Dec 2019, 06:43

EasyJet new routes to Verona (3x weekly) and Pula (2x weekly).

pabely

11th Dec 2019, 10:01

EasyJet new routes to Verona (3x weekly) and Pula (2x weekly).
I assume at the expense of some other routes as Luton is full !

toledoashley

11th Dec 2019, 10:26

I assume at the expense of some other routes as Luton is full !
Stockholm was dropped - so Verona fills that gap. Pula, I'm not sure at the moment

Falcon666

11th Dec 2019, 13:43

I assume at the expense of some other routes as Luton is full !

Not forgetting that Vienna also finishes at the end of the winter season- (route to be operated by Wizz from July)

compton3bravo

11th Dec 2019, 16:10

LTNman

11th Dec 2019, 16:42

pabely

11th Dec 2019, 16:47

Since when is Luton full, I thought there were a number of slots available in mid morning early afternoon plus TUI are operating fewer flights next summer. Sorry to be pedantic but it is three weekly to Pula (early morning) and Verona twice weekly.
Full as far as extra pax on new routes, not slots. With EZY and WZZ upsizing equipment it will put more pressure on the 18M limt.

Buster the Bear

11th Dec 2019, 19:24

Since it hit 18 million passengers the airport would be in breach of its planning permission to go above it. In fact it needs to reduce flights as the trend is still increasing although the airport has its own criteria for ignoring some passenger types that are included in CAA figures.

All this development, were they in ignorance of the planning permission? Seems a lot of cash has been invested already into a sizable increase beyond the 18m! I assume that Poacher and Gamekeeper will strike a deal to grant permission, or is Central Govt now on the case?

pabely

11th Dec 2019, 19:43

Subject to results tomorrow!?

LTNman

11th Dec 2019, 21:44

All this development, were they in ignorance of the planning permission? Seems a lot of cash has been invested already into a sizable increase beyond the 18m! I assume that Poacher and Gamekeeper will strike a deal to grant permission, or is Central Govt now on the case?

In the short term the airport operator, who does the councils dirt work, has put in 2 planning applications. The first one is to breach the agreed noise limits while a second planning application is to add a further million passengers. The council planning committee that will consider the applications will ignore all complaints as the council has its fingers in the airports tills and will approve the applications without considering any objections.

When 19 million is reached the airport operator will put in another planning application for 20 million. This will carry on until 22.5 million is reached when the existing airport footprint can't take any more passengers which was meant to be the case with 18 million passengers. From the councils point of view the airport operator put in the application late which will have an impact on 2020 operations. This might have been down to who pays for what as the airport operator cuts back on funding new projects with the end of the franchise due in 2031.

This all becomes irrelevant if the DCO to government is approved for 32 million but then it might not get approved. With the council spending £460 million funding pre expansion projects the council might be left in deep sh!t

Buster the Bear

12th Dec 2019, 09:08

Never mind the towns Council tax payers can foot that bill should it occur.

Lee Baker Street

12th Dec 2019, 10:55

In the short term the airport operator, who does the councils dirt work, has put in 2 planning applications. The first one is to breach the agreed noise limits while a second planning application is to add a further million passengers. The council planning committee that will consider the applications will ignore all complaints as the council has its fingers in the airports tills and will approve the applications without considering any objections.

When 19 million is reached the airport operator will put in another planning application for 20 million. This will carry on until 22.5 million is reached when the existing airport footprint can't take any more passengers which was meant to be the case with 18 million passengers. From the councils point of view the airport operator put in the application late which will have an impact on 2020 operations. This might have been down to who pays for what as the airport operator cuts back on funding new projects with the end of the franchise due in 2031.

This all becomes irrelevant if the DCO to government is approved for 32 million but then it might not get approved. With the council spending £460 million funding pre expansion projects the council might be left in deep sh!t

LTNman Not everyone has objections to the growth of the airport! The airports most loyal customers are those from the St Albans area and the rest of Hertfordshire.

compton3bravo

12th Dec 2019, 10:58

As the 1960s title of a British comedy film 'Don't Panic Chaps' ways will be found to circumnavigate the 18 million cap. For instance we won't include all the private charter passengers anymore in the monthly passengers - only a small amount in the context of the passenger numbers - but it all helps. For instance Arsenal flying to/from Liege for a European cup tie and premier league teams flying to/from Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle et Al. Where there is a well there is a way.

LTNman

12th Dec 2019, 14:42

LTNman Not everyone has objections to the growth of the airport! The airports most loyal customers are those from the St Albans area and the rest of Hertfordshire.

Agreed, but planning applications should go through a democratic process and not be nodded through without proper scrutiny by a council with a financial interest. Would Luton Borough Council support a planning application by say MAG if they 100% owned the airport and wanted to expand the airport onto one of the towns major parks and also at the same time would breach the newly adopted Council’s local plan?

pabely

13th Dec 2019, 16:41

Luton to Abu Dhabi next year?

PAXboy

13th Dec 2019, 19:50

As I went under the new Dart bridge today (twice) I realised why it seems incongrous to me. The'swoop' rises to meet the end of the runway but, as it appears to be designed to mimic the aircraft - it is wrong. If it were 180 degrees around, then the swoop would follow the trajectory of aircraft.

The overall height would be the same for avoidance but it would seem more correct. But then, it is only there to look 'pretty' and for PR images.

LTNman

13th Dec 2019, 20:22

It's the right way round as it symbolises a late missed approach due to the crowded airspace above Luton if the runway is blocked by a waiting departure.

Think Future Luton, think 32 million Luton.

Falcon666

15th Dec 2019, 10:36

Planning application in.
Buildings 94/95 on Percival Way to be demolished (at last).
Going to be re surfaced and used as staff parking.

LTNman

16th Dec 2019, 15:21

Parkway interchange continues to receive its upper steelwork. In the background the Gateway Bridge can be seen. In the foreground two mysterious steel structures have appeared in recent weeks.
https://i.imgur.com/fsyQteY.jpg

The embankment by taxiway Bravo has been removed.
https://i.imgur.com/4E4ajgY.jpg

The ring road is getting close to being rerouted away from taxiway Delta and will hug the second multi story. The right hand curve will link the service road. The former drop off zone is being used as a parking area for staff to park meet and greet cars
https://i.imgur.com/QTObGxG.jpg

Comparing the artists impression with what has been built so far it looks like the higher roof support will have concrete slabbing around it. Note the lip on the concrete retaining wall for some sort of roof just outside the station area.

https://i.imgur.com/q1hwv2C.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cFI54SQ.jpg

Boeing737-8

17th Dec 2019, 12:17

Thanks LTNman,

Good update as usual.

Wizz have not launched the Armenia flights yet, however it might not be too long as TUI have just sold/traded some slots with Wizz.

https://en.armlink.am/wizz-air-to-carry-out-yerevan-london-yerevan-paris-flights.html

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/TUI-TO-W9-SWAP.pdf

pamann

17th Dec 2019, 22:51

Wizz have not launched the Armenia flights yet, however it might not be too long as TUI have just sold/traded some slots with Wizz.

Some?

17 slot pairs by all accounts. That sounds to me like a whole based unit?

I’m not good with those charts, but I’ll assume that ‘was’ the second based unit and not the sole based unit planned?

LTNman

18th Dec 2019, 07:38

AS I said before but with no evidence apart from an insider at TUI HQ, he has told me they are planning to pull their LTN base. Seeing the base has been in decline for years it seems a likely outcome which will be painful for those staff members based at LTN.

compton3bravo

18th Dec 2019, 09:38

My best guess for what it's worth is that Wizz have taken the slots of one of the two based TUI aircraft of summer 2019, which leaves just one based for summer 2020 plus a few flights on W pattern which gives Wizz to base another aircraft at the airport making 10.

boeing_eng

18th Dec 2019, 13:19

The bulk of the TUI slots traded with Wizz are for peak school holiday period flights as operated last Summer with a based 737. The basic plan for Summer 2020 has been for a second aircraft to be based Mon-Thurs during most of the Summer season (Fri-Sun based elsewhere) No doubt TUI are still fine-tuning the program so it remains to be seen what actually happens and the MAX grounding may well be a factor here....

Do these slots actually have monetary value?

globetrotter79

19th Dec 2019, 07:39

Wizz Air acquired slots from the previous Monarch portfolio at Luton from the administrators back in 2017, sufficient to cover five (?) based aircraft. I don't believe the value of those slots was ever publicly announced but the indication was that the transaction definitely did have a monetary value - so it is reasonable to assume that Wizz have indeed paid TUI for the slots this time around.

ericlday

19th Dec 2019, 10:04

The following extract from Bim Afolami (MP Harpenden and Hitchin) may throw more light on the subject....
I have hosted public meetings to discuss the impact of flight noise and local pollution over the past two years, and I have held several formal and informal meetings with local campaigners fighting to stop the airport making our case to Luton Airport, the Government, and the Civil Aviation Authority. I also held a debate in Parliament following the announcement that the airport would seek to increase passenger numbers from 18 million to 32 million. During this debate the Government confirmed for the first time ever, that Luton Airport will not be allowed to expand beyond its current 18 million passenger limit with approval from Planning Inspectorate in central Government - so Luton Borough Council (who own the airport) will not be able to approve its own planning application....

LTNman

19th Dec 2019, 11:21

The council were never expecting to approve their own planning application as it was so big which is why the council is going down the path of a DCO (Development Consent Order) . So far the council has spent £40 million on the DCO but then it would seem the council has unlimited funds while at the same time it cuts council services. Actually £40 million is small change as the running total is around £460,000,000 and they might not get planning permission. Never mind, the council tax payers can pick up the debt as the existing council will jump ship at the first sign of trouble.

It should be noted though that they have separated bits of the expansion like the first phase of the Dart (£225 million) and the dual carriageway (£170 million) so they could give themselves planning permission but the rest of it goes to Government. As time goes on it will be harder for the Government to give planning permission when they are trying to cut emissions. As for Luton Council, they just don't care and are a fairly uneducated lot who lost the plot years ago.

Dannyboy39

19th Dec 2019, 18:01

If you told someone not so many years ago that slots in LTN would actually be traded for actual money in the future, I think you'd be excused of being off your head.

LTNman

19th Dec 2019, 18:43

The physical changes to the airport are staggering. I can well remember the airport before the tunnel was dug when access was via local roads. I used to play with the terminal tannoy in the knowledge that the terminal was void of any passengers.

LGS6753

20th Dec 2019, 08:52

Luton is now handling more pax in a year than Heathrow did in 1968 (14m). And even then, Heathrow had three terminals.

LTNman

20th Dec 2019, 10:36

18,112,000 So much for the legal cap but then LLAOL operates under a nod and a wink understanding with the council. One thing is for sure and that is the council won't be rushing to enforce a cut in its income.

Anyone remember the planning application for the 1999 new terminal? The council claimed its capacity was 5 million so they could vote through their own application. That 5 million terminal is now exceeding 18 million

PAXboy

20th Dec 2019, 12:33

operates under a nod and a wink understanding
Yes, that's how Britain works!

CAP A330

21st Dec 2019, 14:36

Wizz flights to Scandinavia have really picked up. From struggling with less than 50 pax often on the BGO to now maxing out the 321 seating capacity. What a turnaround. The same is true with all others destinations (OSL, TOS, SVG etc). It seems however wizz have not done themselves any favours sending GWUKB away as they now have no spares A/C any have been hit with heavy delays in the last few days/weeks.

Dannyboy39

23rd Dec 2019, 08:56

So it looks like Xmas Day this year will be one of, if not the busiest ever for LTN. Appears that WZZ are running a full programme on their northern and eastern European routes.

pabely

23rd Dec 2019, 11:18

So it looks like Xmas Day this year will be one of, if not the busiest ever for LTN. Appears that WZZ are running a full programme on their northern and eastern European routes.
Wouldn't expect anything else, most of Europe the big day is 24th.
Farnborough is closed 25/26th so it will be busy for FBOs as well.

LTNman

23rd Dec 2019, 18:40

Don’t seem to remember there were many flights last Christmas

pabely

23rd Dec 2019, 19:47

We discussed this last year, WZZ had 30 along with TOM and VLG so will see what occurs this year.

1sky

23rd Dec 2019, 21:37

Quite a few of the Wizz Air flights on 25/12 are fully booked (to my great surprise!).

boeing_eng

24th Dec 2019, 07:11

Chatting to some ground support staff & they are certainly not impressed with having to work tomorrow!.....There's likely to be a high sickness rate!!

LTNman

24th Dec 2019, 07:19

Lee Baker Street

24th Dec 2019, 08:09

I posted about this very subject yesterday although I have no idea where the post went. It used to be the case that just skeleton crews would come in. Even the tower was on reduced hours and would randomly shut. I can remember one year when all the apron flood lighting was switched off on Christmas Day. Only ever seen that happen once.

This Christmas is my first in five years that I will not be working. If you work in an environment that has to deliver a public service it goes without saying you have to accept that you may have to work on any day or night throughout the year.

Having looked at a flight programme for tomorrow it would appear over 110 movements (if accurate) are to be expected with almost all by Wizz which means it will be the busiest XMAS day in the airports history too date.

Have a lovely Christmas LTNman and every one else in this forum.

boeing_eng

24th Dec 2019, 09:48

LBS....Glad you have this Christmas off. I've worked plenty over my time at LTN (including dealing with an AOG aircraft on Christmas day!) These busy Christmas day programs at LTN only started last year so I can understand why some staff are not that happy! We try and work a rota so you never work two Christmas days two years in a row (and that's with very limited manpower)

Seasons Greetings to all

ajamieson

24th Dec 2019, 11:00

There's likely to be a high sickness rate!!
In any workplace where performance is managed, throwing a sickie is unlikely to be allowed to pass unnoticed. Even more so when remaining colleagues have to pick up the slack. And especially in an environment such as airport operations when working at Christmas is not only normal but will have been planned months in advance. T&Cs for ground staff are miserable and I feel for them but working Christmas is not a surprise.

boeing_eng

24th Dec 2019, 11:16

Dannyboy39

24th Dec 2019, 15:40

throwing a sickie is unlikely to be allowed to pass unnoticed

Unfortunately, throwing a sickie is all too common with some of LTN's handling agents and the rapid turn-over of staff reflects this!

Christmas day working at LTN is a recent thing for many staff so I have some sympathy for those who joined before the Wizz invasion!

Plenty of sympathy yes, but it is now a major airport in this country and should come to be expected.

LHR will be very busy tomorrow; clearly not as busy as normal ops, but still many flights many of which to destinations where they very much celebrate Christmas tomorrow - it's a cheaper day to fly. There will be many no doubt heading to JNB for the first test match on Boxing Day as an example.

LTNman

24th Dec 2019, 22:59

Have a lovely Christmas LTNman and every one else in this forum.

And you and all Forum members.

There has been plenty of talking points this year. Next week sees the start of a new decade, I wonder what next year and the next 10 years will bring? Will I get the opportunity to end my construction updates as I seem to have been doing them for years. 2020 should see the end of the construction phase of the Dart with 2021 set as the opening date. Also 2020 should see the new taxiway go in at the 26 end and maybe a new apron by the run up bay.

The next decade will see Luton either with a second terminal or the airport capped at 22.5 million and confined to its existing boundary but tomorrow for one day only will see Luton as the 4th busiest UK airport as Stansted only has a handful of flights.

inOban

24th Dec 2019, 23:28

How many flights are scheduled?

pabely

25th Dec 2019, 00:07

How many flights are scheduled?
66 I believe, and that is without any EZY departures at Luton. EZY have a small program from LGW and running about 380 sectors around Europe, next year expect more!

Gulfstreamaviator

25th Dec 2019, 00:36

inc 2 BA deps...............................

LTNman

25th Dec 2019, 04:50

A quick count of the boards shows 66 departures and 58 arrivals but they both run out of room so there might be more. Also I think 4 Wizz came in during the early hours that are now not showing so that makes at least 128 movements.

Not much public transport today so today is the day of the car.

pabely

25th Dec 2019, 07:19

inc 2 BA deps...............................
Freight I would assume, usual codeshare A300F

LTNman

25th Dec 2019, 12:37

Drove through the back of the airport at lunchtime and could not see any vacant stands just a mass of Easyjet and a few Ryanair aircraft with not a Wizz in sight. Without the first wave of Easyjet departures I was wondering where the inbound Wizz parked as I would not have thought the Wizz based aircraft would have provided enough spare stands.

pabely

26th Dec 2019, 12:19

A quick count of the boards shows 66 departures and 58 arrivals but they both run out of room so there might be more. Also I think 4 Wizz came in during the early hours that are now not showing so that makes at least 128 movements.

About 40 FBO movements as well, a few would normally use Farnborough.

LGS6753

26th Dec 2019, 12:22

Actual number - 134 airline movements

Smpl

27th Dec 2019, 20:58

The last update of caa statistic of November 18.127.372, what is happened now? If the maximum allow is only 18.000.000

Buster the Bear

27th Dec 2019, 23:43

Employ a well known MP to do the passenger counting?

LTNman

28th Dec 2019, 07:35

The airport in collusion with the council only count certain passenger types so the airport in their eyes is still below 18 million at just over 17.9 million. In the short term the airport has imposed restrictions for 2020 which allegedly stopped Air India coming to Luton. For 2021 they expect the council to raise passenger limits to 19 million which will happen seeing they own the asset. It will then be gradually increased to 22.5 million regardless of the planning application for a second terminal which will go to government.

Dannyboy39

28th Dec 2019, 08:59

The last update of caa statistic of November 18.127.372, what is happened now? If the maximum allow is only 18.000.000

In reality, how can you manage this anyway? You can't second guess how many passengers are going to turn up for a certain flight and for sure you cannot impose load factor quotas on certain flights.

18m passenger will probably equate to 20m seats - but if you have higher than expected load factors, you're always going to go over the top.

pabely

28th Dec 2019, 09:28

In reality, how can you manage this anyway? You can't second guess how many passengers are going to turn up for a certain flight and for sure you cannot impose load factor quotas on certain flights.

18m passenger will probably equate to 20m seats - but if you have higher than expected load factors, you're always going to go over the top.
Correct, it is a limit in words only. Is there a legal precedence on what the limit it? Actual pax turning up? Booked seats, available seats? Seats on sheduled flights only?

A question about Air India, reported by many sources, despite the preference of a Slough MP that the Amritsar route should run via Luton, I think it was at the limit of the range if a 788 from Luton's runway. With them now starting Mumbai which is 450miles further, would this have been technically a bridge to far anyhow?

SWBKCB

28th Dec 2019, 09:59

I would expect that it is monitored based on planned flights e.g. airline tells airport we would like to operate X flights using Y a/c = Z number of seats and airport should be saying no, you need to reduce by Q% if the planning limited is exceeded. There maybe an adjustment made to take account of load factor e.g expected pax rather than availbale seats, but I would expect that it can only be managed in advance by the number of planned flights.

Dannyboy39

28th Dec 2019, 10:25

Managed in advance - the schedules are out up to 12-18 months in advance!

LTNman

28th Dec 2019, 13:35

Using the airports own measuring criteria Luton could be in breach of its planning permission probably in November if passenger numbers continue to grow but the council takes a report from the airport operator only every 3 months plus up to 28 additional days. The 18 million limit is for commercial passengers only so excludes infants and non paying passengers.

The airport operator has put a ban in place for any increase in movements but that still allows larger aircraft to be used. When the airport busts 18 million commercial passengers this will allow pressure groups to make complaints to the council but it is doubtful if the council will take any action when there is a pending planning application to increase passengers to 19 million. Remember Luton Airport is Luton Borough Council.

pabely

28th Dec 2019, 19:54

The airport operator has put a ban in place for any increase in movements but that still allows larger aircraft to be used.
Just new routes and charters? Source please.
Euro 2020 with a few games in London this summer.

Lee Baker Street

28th Dec 2019, 20:21

Using the airports own measuring criteria Luton will be in breach of its planning permission probably in November but the council takes a report from the airport operator only every 3 months plus up to 28 additional days. The 18 million limit is for commercial passengers only so excludes infants and non paying passengers.

The airport operator has put a ban in place for any increase in movements but that still allows larger aircraft to be used. When the airport busts 18 million commercial passengers this will allow pressure groups to make complaints to the council but it is doubtful if the council will take any action when there is a pending planning application to increase passengers to 19 million. Remember Luton Airport is Luton Borough Council.

LTNman. You talk of pressure groups but remember even if 300 people oppose the planning application and 100 are enthusiastic about it, there are still 400,000 people —plus, living within twelve miles around the airport who are neutral and therefore not concerned either way by the expansion. You need to rejoice the potential for an expanded Luton Airport that will generate thousands of jobs for local folk living in the airports catchment area. Yes the 18 million passenger limit will no doubt be breached for the year end but it’s not an Indictable offence! Once Brexit takes hold, more than ever the Government will seek growth in all areas of industry and would be foolish to deny employment opportunities at Luton!

LTNman

28th Dec 2019, 20:28

Just new routes and charters? Source please.
Euro 2020 with a few games in London this summer.

My council source

The airport is aware that they are approaching the 18mppa ceiling and have advised us that for next year they will not be increasing the number of air traffic movements because of the potential to exceed the cap (though you will be aware that they did submit a screening request to determine whether increasing the number of passengers to 19mppa would constitute EIA development [LBC ref:19/01006/EIASCR]).

LTNman

28th Dec 2019, 20:49

LTNman. You talk of pressure groups but remember even if 300 people oppose the planning application and 100 are enthusiastic about it, there are still 400,000 people —plus, living within twelve miles around the airport who are neutral and therefore not concerned either way by the expansion. You need to rejoice the potential for an expanded Luton Airport that will generate thousands of jobs for local folk living in the airports catchment area. Yes the 18 million passenger limit will no doubt be breached for the year end but it’s not an Indictable offence! Once Brexit takes hold, more than ever the Government will seek growth in all areas of industry and would be foolish to deny employment opportunities at Luton!

I have no doubt the council will ignore any objections as they own the asset.

Because someone doesn’t write or phone in does not mean they are neutral, it just means the council has form when it comes to ignoring complaints so why bother.

Also remember all local councils object to airport expansion so they represent their residents. Even little old Friends of Wigmore Park has around 2500 members and they also object.

As I have said before the council intends to create a new set of low paid workers as working in the terminal, on the apron or in the car parks is not a way to get rich unless you are a tanker driver. There is an argument that a zero hour contract is better than no job but that just leads to in-work poverty.

This is worth a read about Luton Airport and the jobs it will create. Does anyone dispute the report?

https://stoplae.org/workers-trapped-in-airport-poverty-at-council-owned-airport/

AndrewH52

29th Dec 2019, 08:23

Your ‘report’ is hardly from an unbiased source and doesn’t seem to contain a single referenced fact - just a load of supposition. It would be more compelling if it actually included some numbers. What is the average salary for ground staff, what proportion of employees are actually on zero hours contracts, how do salary levels compare with other employers in the Luton area, for instance.

SWBKCB

29th Dec 2019, 08:34

It would be more compelling if it actually included some numbers. What is the average salary for ground staff, what proportion of employees are actually on zero hours contracts, how do salary levels compare with other employers in the Luton area, for instance.

It would be more compelling if you could produce some numbers to counter the report e.g. are ground staff paid above the average wage in the local area? It may be short on numbers, but it has the ring of truth to me....

LGS6753

29th Dec 2019, 10:17

Dannyboy39

29th Dec 2019, 10:53

It would be more compelling if you could produce some numbers to counter the report e.g. are ground staff paid above the average wage in the local area? It may be short on numbers, but it has the ring of truth to me....

When I was first starting out in the industry (around 2010) I was offered around 20hpw under £8ph to be a PSA, doing early shifts, by an agency who were pretty clear that they had a high turnover of staff and if someone kicked up, they'd be out on their ear pretty quickly. Not great.

That said, you also have many decently paying jobs - flight crew, engineers and other operational staff. The closure of MON and the engineering arm was worth about 1,500-2,000 of those stable jobs but EZY and TUI, as well as WUK / FBO ops have a big presence, more so than other larger airports.

Manx

29th Dec 2019, 13:41

All the Stop LAE stuff feels like it's been written by a child. There's lots more data and facts out there that could be used to constructively criticise the expansion of the airport. Unfortunately it misses the mark every single time and just reads like an unbalanced Daily Mail piece, if that Daily Mail piece was being written as some kind of teenage tabloid competition. So easy to dismiss that it undermined peoples genuine concerns which is a great shame.

LTNman

29th Dec 2019, 15:15

https://www.london-luton.co.uk/corporate/working-at-lla

Not many vacancies give hours and money but the above vacancies appear on the airports website. Friska is the first one I randomly came across giving hours and wages. No doubt there will be 40 hour jobs buried in the links if someone wants to go through the list.

Friska is offering 16 and 24 hour contracts paying £9.10 per hour or 8, 16, 24 and 30 hour contracts paying £8.35 per hour.

I have attended 2 airport job fairs and didn’t see any well paid jobs. There were plenty of low paid low hour contracts on offer plus zero hour work but then these are the vacancies that have really high staff turnover rates. Good jobs don’t get offered at job fairs. Of course there are the engineering jobs and jobs working for the likes of Easyjet, TUI and Gulfstream but these jobs are not going to increase just because the council builds a new terminal.

Remember the council has 20 year old outline planning permission to build a business park but want’s to use the land for a long term car park.

ExpectmorePayless

30th Dec 2019, 05:42

Nice to see WHSmith offering jobs at the minimum wage of £8.21 ph. Even better if they employ youngsters under 25 at under £5.
At least the salary of the CEO helps balance the average salary for the company.
https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2019/11/former-whsmith-ceo-stephen-clarke-given-3-4m-payout/

Needless to say the CEO doesn't work at LLA.

ATNotts

30th Dec 2019, 06:49

The SLAE "report" is pretty thin - more of a polemic from a red-top newspaper than a serious analysis.

One of my hopes for post-Brexit Britain is that immigration is limited. It's these zero-hours contract jobs on the minimum wage that are fed by new arrivals. Often single people, they can live cheaply, and are prepared to work hard and conscientiously for little pay and no guarantees - but often for far more money than they can earn in their home country.

If the supply of cheap labour was limited, employers would have to improve pay and conditions to retain staff. Those that didn't would lose business.

This sounds like a long-term hope, but I firmly believe that it could be a positive spin-off from the cessation of "freedom of movement", which has fuelled the current surge in low-security, low-paid jobs.

And I speak as someone with first-hand experience of this end of the jobs market.

A pious hope I fear. The PM is not anti immigration, he his anti EU (allegedly) and anti free movement. UK workers have come to enjoy the luxury of not having to do those nasty, low paid jobs in hospitality and customer facing service industries and the likes of Tim Martin won't allow them to stop the supply of lower paid workers from abroad to impact on their salaries and corporate profits. Dream on I'm afraid.