MANCHESTER - 8

[easyflyer83]

Of course it could be but I think we can safely say it is unlikely. Neither OPO or VCE are bases and, comparatively speaking, W patterns aren't operated on a wholesale basis across the network. Plus, it is now getting close to the Summer season.

[wanna_be_there]

Tunisair to Enfidha now loaded into the MAN online timetable.

TU946 arrives at 14:00, TU947 departs again at 14:50.

Flights begin 21.5.2011 using an A320 and Terminal will be T1

Flights are also available for booking on expedia, where proof of equipment and terminal can be viewed under a dummy booking

[Suzeman]

From the Manchester Evening News

We'll have to see what happens in the budget......

Suzeman


Manchester Airport lobbies government over tax jobs threat | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1411352_manchester_airport_lobbies_government_over_tax_jobs_ threat)

[wanna_be_there]

Well, as seen as the conservatives hate transport, its hardly surprising. Thatcher ruined the railways, so cameron is here to finish off what she left, air travel....

Its a shame because MAN has put in so much effort to gain these new services, and with this APD, they wont last a year.

[Betablockeruk]

APD is to be frozen. No increase, no reformation, just an open ended freeze. Not ideal, but at least airlines can now budget correctly for another year.

[MUFC_fan]

APD is to be frozen. No increase, no reformation, just an open ended freeze. Not ideal, but at least airlines can now budget correctly for another year.


Leaked report suggests APD to be increased in budget : Gatwick Airport News Stories (http://uk-airport-news.info/gatwick-airport-news-190311.html)

[wanna_be_there]

But that link you have provided says there will be an inrease?

[Betablockeruk]

Yes, that 'leak' is from last week. A week being a long time in politics.

APD and fuel duty both frozen. All media outlets saying same thing.

[SplashDown]

I know the 3rd daily had a mention but this is quite a good article:

Emirates Makes Manchester Mideast Hub as BA Sticks to Heathrow - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/emirates-makes-manchester-mideast-hub-as-ba-sticks-to-heathrow.html)

[Skipness One Echo]

Airbus SAS A380 superjumbo

Yes they look like they're knowledgable on the subject matter upon which they write.

British Airways scrapped long-haul flights from Manchester in 2008, opting to route people through Heathrow, Europe’s busiest airport, on nine daily shuttles. The U.K. company says it has no plans to revise the model, even though 13 scheduled carriers including Delta Air Lines Inc., Continental Airlines and Singapore Airlines Ltd. offer long-haul services from the airport, which claims a catchment of 20 million people.

I make it AA, US, CO/UA, DL, VS, QR, EK, EY, TS, SQ, PK which is 11, Who am I missing?


Would there be any point in mentioning again that all of the airlines above have the same hub and spoke business model as British "Why won't they base big shiny long haul planes at Manchester" Airways? No? None at all? News to everyone?

Fine I'll shut up and join the party then. Nasty British Airways ! I don't understand why they don't have a long haul hub at MAN at all. Just my two cents....

btw why has Stand 03 turned (back?) into Stand 01? I am already confused enough without Northern-type stand planners adding to it....

[The96er]

btw why has Stand 03 turned (back?) into Stand 01? I am already confused enough without Northern-type stand planners adding to it....


Stand one has been re-aligned to allow a slightly larger a/c to use it such as an A319/737-300. Possibly to do with creating more stand space for Easyjet moving terminals maybe !.

[wanna_be_there]

Whilst I know BA will never ever open a hub at MAN again, I think the main concensus is that a lot people just dont want to go down to Heathrow to catch their flight anymore.

At the end of the day, to those of us who have even the slightest bit of aviation knowledge, yes, BA is doing the same as everybody else by sending all MAN pax via their hub like everyone else. But, to the general British public, they will always question why BA do not offer long haul flights out of MAN, or GLA/EDI/NCL for that matter.
They will see that VS, the other UK long haul carrier does operate such flights out of MAN. Again, we know they operate on a different business rationale than LHR, but, the General public doesnt.

After reading another post on another forum this morning, I do think BA could make MAN a small holiday hub with Kuoni/BA holidays, similar to VS at MAN, but thats a different business model and arguement completely

[easyflyer83]

After reading another post on another forum this morning, I do think BA could make MAN a small holiday hub with Kuoni/BA holidays, similar to VS at MAN, but thats a different business model and arguement completely

Absolutely, you almost answered your own question. Business model. Nobody asks of TCX to operate scheduled NYC......because we recognise and accept that thats not part of it's strategy.

I do understand what you say however regarding peoples perceptions but does a business lose money in order to put those wrong perceptions right? Hopefully most people travelling to, for example, HKG will realise that whether they fly EK or BA, there is still a stopover/connection to be made. Many, admittedly, would prefer to get a huge chunk of the journey straight away ex MAN and therefore like EK whilst others prefer to get the long haul flight done in one long stretch.

LHR, as we know, isn't the most efficient of airports but connecting there isn't all that bad (especially T5) and whilst it's not as seamless as my experience of DXB, i wouldn't hesitate using LHR in the future.

Even if BA had long haul flights ex MAN, for most destinations there would still be a requirement to connect via LHR as even the most hardened protestor here would admit that BA long haul destinations would be quite select.

[wanna_be_there]

Nobody asks of TCX to operate scheduled NYC......because we recognise and accept that thats not part of it's strategy


Exactly. People just see the words British Airways, get all misty eyed and protest at them not serving long haul from MAN. You dont get people asking why TCX doesnt serve LHR, because they know it wouldnt last.


for most destinations there would still be a requirement to connect via LHR


Exactly! Even if BA did open a MAN hub, they still wouldnt be serving the 'right' routes and people would still complain.

In terms of the BA holiday hub, the other forum had an idea of:

-Cutting the LGW shuttles (as it will save money for BA, especially with the new higher charges at LGW, making domestics more expensive to run)
-Bringing 1/2x 3 class B772 to MAN to operate MCO and a few carribean routes.
-The stored B744's could replace the B772 routes

BA holidays and Kuoni, as well as a few online sales could support the route. VS has been very successful in this, and if the BA following in the Northwest is as wanted so badly as on here, we should be able to support the route.

[Skipness One Echo]

-Cutting the LGW shuttles (as it will save money for BA, especially with the new higher charges at LGW, making domestics more expensive to run)
-Bringing 1/2x 3 class B772 to MAN to operate MCO and a few carribean routes.
-The stored B744's could replace the B772 routes

It wouldn't impact too much on the MAN-LGW as that's not their purpose. Only the first Southbound has any use as a feeder, the rest is to link to business centres. De-coupling MAN feed with a dedicated aircraft would impact on the LGW operation but VS seem to manage this quite well but this based on a fleet charging a LOT on a daily B744 to see Mickey Mouse.

Or why not build a stand alone specialist and focussed leisure company closely working with BA Holidays and call it, oh I don't know......something to make use of BA heavies on leisure routes..... *ponders* EUREKA! I have it, it shall be known as "British Airtours" What a crazy, mad idea I just had!

[wanna_be_there]

VS seem to manage this quite well but this based on a fleet charging a LOT on a daily B744 to see Mickey Mouse


I dont see your point? If VS can charge a LOT to see mickey mouse, surely BA holidays/Kuoni could do the same?


Or why not build a stand alone company and call it, oh I don't know......something to make use of BA heavies on leisure routes. EUREKA! I have it, it shall be known as "British Airtours" What a crazy, mad idea I just had


Is it a bad day at the office or something, as again I dont see your point? Isnt this exactly what the 'BA heavies on leisure routes' are doing at LGW? Or is that a 'mad' idea too?

[Skipness One Echo]

I dont see your point? If VS can charge a LOT to see mickey mouse, surely BA holidays/Kuoni could do the same?

BA used to fly MAN-MCO, apparently not. They have the reverese Midas-touch as soon as they get beyond Hounslow.

As for "my" crazy British Airtours idea, well I'll leave that to someone older than I.

[mickyman]

Who are the people wanting BA back at Manchester -
perhaps Ryanair are leading the way......

MM

[wanna_be_there]

As for "my" crazy British Airtours idea, well I'll leave that to someone older than I


Why be so patronising?

Once again a simple question that could have an interesting debate blasted down purely because Sir Skipness says so. :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Why be so patronising?

I'm not, I'm pointing out BA couldn't make money in the regions if the fate of creation itself depended upon it. They used to have a set up pretty much as you were describing, called British Airtours. We're in that part of the cycle where BA have rediscovered that leisure can make money and it's not all about Club and First, if done properly. Soon someone might have the "new" idea to launch a new leisure division soon to grow market share in markets outta London. I think my point is there are few new ideas alas.

[wanna_be_there]

Fair enough, I see where you are comming from now.

The point Im trying to make is, Whilst its not in the regions, such a set up still exsists at LGW, as all of LGW's long haul routes are leisure orientated and rely quite a lot on BA holidays.

At a time when they are about to create 'mixed fleet', maybe the time is now?

They have a crew base at MAN, the B772 could be rotated at MCO (like VS does), and with BA holiday/Kuoni, the venture wouldnt be soley relient on feed or point to point airfare only sales.

BA could, even utilise their BE codeshares to feed MAN from those points served by BE with the BA codeshare. There is also still the terraces lounge to be put to good use. Basically, the infrastructure is there, it just needs the commitment now.

And with that, I dont think its a mad idea. Im also not stating 20-30 aircraft should be based at MAN, just 1 or 2. BA could easily replicate at MAN what VS do, and if its just the morning MAN-LGW shuttle that feeds the LGW long hauls, it sounds like it wouldnt impact on LGW ops too much.

Then again, the above will always just be a dream :\

[Skipness One Echo]

I think it's a rather good idea, my feeling having dealt with BA is that they got their fingers so badly burned with anything with the word "regions" anywhere near it that it will be years before they try again.

They even used to fly MAN-YYZ on the TriStar, I used to cry at the noisy RB211s when they stopped off at PIK.

[The96er]

They have a crew base at MAN

BA have not had a crews base in MAN now for many years.

There is also still the terraces lounge to be put to good use.

With only the shuttles and the AA flights, the lounge is a shadow of it's former size.

[roverman]

Skipness,

The 13 might include Cathay Pacific and China Airlines, freight only but still a 'long-haul scheduled' if you're spinning.

[easyflyer83]

BA have not had a crews base in MAN now for many years

To be fair BA had crew based in MAN until relatively recently.

BA Mainline 2006
BA Connect/BAR 2007
GB Airways 2008

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Skipness,

Don't forget Air Blue [ED] to Islamabad. Also, Thomas Cook's services to Canada last summer were also officially "scheduled", although I'm not sure if they will be back on Canada routes this season with Air Transat resuming most of the programme in their place. Regards, SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Thomas Cook's services to Canada last summer were also officially "scheduled", although I'm not sure if they will be back on Canada routes this season


They are back this year. They are running A330's to Calgary and Vancouver, with Air Transat running A330's to Toronto.

[Mr A Tis]

With three TCX A330s returning to the lessors at the end of Summer 2011. This is the last year for TCX on Vancouver / Calagary for Canadian Affair.
Toronto this summer are a mix of Transat A330s & A310s.(instead of the previous TCX B757s)

[TURIN]

wanna be there

Have you any idea how many BA staff are currently 'based' at MAN? :hmm:

[easyflyer83]

Of course it could be but I think we can safely say it is unlikely. Neither OPO or VCE are bases and, comparatively speaking, W patterns aren't operated on a wholesale basis across the network. Plus, it is now getting close to the Summer season.


I could well be eating my own words above as three new Easyjet routes from the Northwest are to be announced shortly. I guess these could be Winter routes but if not it will be interesting for any potential MAN routes considering the 6 based aircraft are fully utilised this Summer.

[easyflyer83]

I'm hearing three new Easyjet routes from the Northwest are to be announced soon.

[wanna_be_there]

Do we know if TS will run YVR/YYC once Thomas cook pulls off the routes, or will they be 2 destinations that will now be unserved from MAN?

RE easyjet

There are no new routes in the holidays section, where Bilbao appeared a few days before the main site, but doesnt seem to be any new routes from LPL in there either, so I guess its a wait and see.

wanna be there

Have you any idea how many BA staff are currently 'based' at MAN? :hmm:

Nice try, but as seen as I was corrected much earlier in the thread, a bit too late to bother me with that comment really :zzz:

[TURIN]

Nice try, but as seen as I was corrected much earlier in the thread, a bit too late to bother me with that comment really

As you chose to ignore it, the point needed labouring.:}


The answer is more than 20 and less than 30 by the way.



I assume you mean "seeing as" when you say "seen as". :=

[wanna_be_there]

Oh Turin, dont take it too seriously, none of us make it out alive anyway! :\

[ben_keghead]

I also heard about 3 new routes from MAN by EZY...all which are currently served from LPL. (all are EZY bases)

[MUFC_fan]

BFS, MAD and SXF?

[Skipness One Echo]

Speaking of BA staff, BA Engineering also have engineering cover at MAN as they look after Singapore and Etihad amongst others. It's worth noting the vehicles all appear to still be in Landor colours as well !

I thought all the BA staff went to Aviance and onwards to Servisair but I guess a few survived.

[easyflyer83]

I also heard about 3 new routes from MAN by EZY...all which are currently served from LPL. (all are EZY bases)


Orange Juice made it sound like they would be a split between MAN and LPL as they used the Northwest phrase.
Any idea whether they are Summer routes?

[MUFC_fan]

Maybe they'll be flown by aircraft from other bases?

If so, my guess would change to BFS, MXP and MAD.

[dwlpl]

Whats Orange Juice?

[The96er]

I thought all the BA staff went to Aviance and onwards to Servisair but I guess a few survived.

The only BA staff remaining at MAN are the duty managers with a few support staff in the BA office in the tower block plus a handful of Engineers based in pier C. All ground operations are performed by Servisair and the cargo side of things is now WFS I believe.

[easyflyer83]

Maybe they'll be flown by aircraft from other bases?

If so, my guess would change to BFS, MXP and MAD.

MXP isn't currently operated. Assuming Ben is correct in saying that all three are also currently operated out of LPL.

I'm going to go with CDG, SXF and MAD.

[dwlpl]

If the word 'Northwest' was used then I would think it will be a mix of LPL and MAN.

[MUFC_fan]

Is SXF a base?

If so - I'll go back to my original prediction. :}

[wanna_be_there]

I'm going to go with CDG, SXF and MAD


I hope to god they dont go for CDG. Theres already 6 daily flights to MAN, with BE/AF, do we really need more frequencies/carriers on the route?

SXF- One of the biggest gaping holes in the MAN-Germany market, so would be a very welcome addition.

MAD-Their north west monopoly on MAD is just about to be threatened with RYR's MAN-MAD. A counter attack maybe? Even if it does effect LPL's loads, its better than loosing out completely?

MXP- Even though its not served from LPL (from the '3 routes already at LPL quoute'), MXP airport loaded twice daily Easyjet MAN-MXP flights into their timetable 2-3 years ago, so, maybe they are ressurecting that idea?

With that, my guesses are MAD, SXF and maybe LIS for when that base opens (as LIS is also a LPL route)

[easyflyer83]

Yeah SXF is a base.

SXF, as you say, is a hole in the MAN network and Easy seem to like their German routes.

MAD, it was already being looked at prior to FR according to a director at the time.

CDG, slots were gained for the route a couple of years ago and BE/AF now codeshare.

[TURIN]

Speaking of BA staff, BA Engineering also have engineering cover at MAN as they look after Singapore and Etihad amongst others. It's worth noting the vehicles all appear to still be in Landor colours as well !

They can't repaint them, it's the only thing holding em together!:O

[DomyDom]

Would be good to see SXF (long overdue and will be popular), MAD would also be a good choice and stabilise growth on the route, and here's (still) hoping OPO (would be another inspired choice after BIO:D- and also EZY would not have to compete on the route for this popular european city break destination). CDG - ahh no!!! - really bad idea for a new route and enough said by others already! Other destinations in Italy (Bologna?) would be good but I accept unlikely to happen for the time being for whatever reason :confused: so it looks like we will have to keep using e.g. Lufthansa/ Brussels Airlines indirect for these destinations. However good to see Easyjet now being more proactive at MAN launching more exiting destinations, remember we only had PMI to look forward to from EZY at the start of this year. Overall very positive - lets hope this approach continues! I can't wait to go to Bilbao!

With regard to HEL - from what I hear Finnair provide a good product with a good connection market, and from experience scandanavia can be quite expensive for Brits for a city break destination, and after this winter probably people in the UK have had their fill of snow (!). Overall not suprised or too dissapointed to see it dropped from EZY's menu as I think it is best left to Finnair - and Easyjet have bigger and more interesting fish to fry.

Anyway it sounds like easyjets strategy is looking good and lets hope good things continue to materialise.:)

By the way also a big vote of thanks to the MAN management and route development team is due. We have now had a new route every month this year (MON, MAD, BIO) not including TAP going daily soon - not all airports are looking at such a rosy picture:D Keep up the good work!

DomyDom

[easyflyer83]

Why is CDG such a bad idea? Is it because it is already operated ex MAN? Because it is already operated by a legacy? Why would it be such a bad idea when EZY already compete well with a 6xdaily AMS service?

I'm not saying the new route is definitely CDG but what some people here deem as being a "bad idea" and what in business terms is a "bad idea" is often completely different.

[wanna_be_there]

Is it because it is already operated ex MAN? Because it is already operated by a legacy


Its not because its served by a legacy, as BE also fly the route (even if they do codeshare with BE).

Why not try some out of the box ideas?

VIE for example, NE made a killing on MAN-BTS with people going to VIE, so theres a route ripe for picking.

Germany does well, so why not add SXF (which is a big city break point) or DTM to compliment the route structure, rather than go against LH/SQ on MUC?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway on another subject, a big announcement tomorrow according to the MAN intranet, wonder what it could be?
Recently, we have had AI/NZ rumoured, RYR said it would expand, rumoured new easyjet routes, so, let the speculation begin!

[Ian Brooks]

Who says it`s going to be a new route, could it be building work?


Ian B

[easyflyer83]

Thinking out of the box is all well and good and some of the routes you mentioned are great ideas.....IMO. What sometimes, let's say niggles me, is how some believe that easyjet should be left with the secondary destinations or be responsible for filling MAN's gaps. Why shouldn't they compete on MUC or CPH? I don't want to lose LH or SK and there is no indication of that happening, easyjet has grown the Market. What is more hypocritical is the fact that many would not have the same feelings if a legacy competed on a lcc's route. Instead it would be champagne, buntings and streamers.

Obviously the new easyjet routes are reportedly from easyjet bases so there is a good chance of SXF and MAD and great if they did but I don't believe expansion should be predicated on filling MANs gaps. Whilst still an LCC, MAN has the chance of having an airline with "big jets" creating a rather large operation... There will be times in the future when once again, easyjet will go head to head with another carrier.

[Mr A Tis]

...because the likes of City Jet (Gothenburg), Finnair (Helsinki), Lufthansa ( Hamburg & Munich) have invested substantial sums in developing routes over the years & building up traffic for a predatory EZY to step on developed routes & dilute traffic.
This happened with Berlin, when BA connect flew a E145 twice a day for years. Then along comes LCC Air Berlin with a B738 & then also LCC Jet2 come along with a B733. Result 4 flights a day to Berlin = over capacity = all three airlines pulled off as unsustainable, leaving no flights. This situation could very easily happen to the Gothenburg route.
Of course EZY can fly where they like. However, it's not difficult to find out how many people fly MAN-BER or MAN-VIE via an intermediate stop & thus these two destinations would be more useful than diluting existing routes.
BTW, who says the new routes are going to be from Manchester? It says Northwest & as the LPL & MAN machines are fully utilised, it has to be from overseas bases or W patterns.

[Skipness One Echo]

Why not try some out of the box ideas?

Name three "out of the box" routes ex MAN that you would consider a winner from 2000 on.

Out of the box like AF on LHR-LAX sort of thing?

[Betablockeruk]

big announcement

Do a search on this phrase and the experience is seriously deflating.

My money is on a new 'Taco Bell' outlet in T2. :}

Now that would be excellent news :ok:

[easyflyer83]

Mr A Tis. LH and others have indeed built up routes but since when does that entitle a company to a monopoly? Get real. Asi mentioned before, particularly on MUC, EZY has grown the Market. On The Hamburg meanwhile, easy have taken pax off BE Hannover and would traditionally not have flown LH's HAM route.

An internal communication confirmed that details on three new routes ex MAN would be revealed at some point in the near future. It mentioned the BIO route and went on to say that three new routes will be announced from the northwest base. Initially I thought it said that 3 new routes would be launched from the northwests bases, meaning lpl and man, but since reading the communication again it is apparent they mean just MAN.

Betablock, before posting cocky comments that make you look foolish, atleast read the last one or two pages to realise that the announcement comes from a pretty good source.

[Betablockeruk]

Betablock, before posting cocky comments that make you look foolish, atleast read the last one or two pages to realise that the announcement comes from a pretty good source.

Steady on with your 'flaming'. Apologies that you took my 'humour' in the wrong way.

[wanna_be_there]

Name three "out of the box" routes ex MAN that you would consider a winner from 2000 on


Skipness, Challenge accepted.

For me personally, I say Belavia Minsk-MAN. May only be seasonal and low frequency, but returns year after year so must be doing ok.

Jet2 to BUD and TLV. Both considered niche routes, and both Malev/EL AL said they were unprofitable.
Even though jet2 has an obviously lower cost base, they have made a good go of them.


Out of the box like AF on LHR-LAX sort of thing


Also on the subject of this, RE a post you made on A.net.

Hypocracy doesnt even begin to describe your comparasin on MAN-LAX with NZ with LAX-LHR on AF.

Your favourite phrase on here is 'comparing apples and pears', and isnt that exactly what you have just done on a.net.

You say people wont know NZ goes to LAX, just like they didnt know AF did LHR-LAX. I dont know about where you are, but more people than you'd think are aware NZ goes LHR-LAX-AKL, whereas, not many people would think a French carrier ran a UK-USA route.

To compare a possible failiure of NZ MAN-LAX-AKL (despite the fact its not even confirmed yet) is just pointless, as NZ are probably more concerned with MAN-AKL pax, with MAN-LAX-MAN a mere bonus. On top of that, there would be cargo, and the AKL-LAX-AKL traffic to help the route along.

AF relied soley on LHR-LAX-LHR traffic, with little connection possibilites at either end, so, to use your words, 'You are comparing apples and pears'

[easyflyer83]

It's this thinking out of the box thing that is irritating. There are some great gems out there to be operated....... BIO i believe is one of them. However, why is it that Easyjet has to think outside of the box, operate to secondary destinations whilst LH etc cream off the profits to some of Europes most profitable destinations?

You can't deny that Easyjet, thus far, has a fairly rounded network ex MAN. Sure they operate on the usual beach routes aswell as competing on some of the major Cities but they also saved ATH from disappearing, GVA when it didn't have a coherent schedule, they operate SOF and RAK on a scheduled basis and have just launced BIO. With that in mind, don't you think some of you are perhaps being a little bit unfair?

Just last week some of you (sorry Wanna_be_there, i do respect your postings) were hammering on about BA operating MCO and other leisure. Well blow my boxers off and use my co:mad:k as a wind sock, a prime example of an airline building up a route is VS and it's MCO. Some days this of course operates twice daily but some of you were willing to potentially jeopardise that just to have the Union Jack widebody back at MAN. This is what i mean by plane spotter snobbery and hypocrisy.

[wanna_be_there]

To be totally honest, Im actually happy with easyjet at MAN.

They are obviously very committed to MAN, I mean, just look how fast the base has gorwn. We would have never had this amount of expansion had GB airways remained as it was.

We are now on aircraft 6, and wouldnt be totally surprised if aircraft 7 eventually made its way here in 2011 (given the fact a few routes are summer only, its not guaranteed though).

Also, as easyflier has pointed out, Easyjet has kept ATH on our departure boards, and routes such as BIA/RAK/BIO are niche routes which would likely dissapear for a long long time if easy were to ever drop them.

In time, easyjet probably will serve all the SXF/MAD/OPO/AMM/SAW/MXP that people on here think they should, but come on, give them time, Rome wasnt built in a day!

[All names taken]

As a pax, I have a lot of sympathy for Easyflyer's comments. They have every right to try and have a go on any route they think they can make money on.
I'll break ranks with many of the views on here by saying I'd be delighted if Easy had a go on Paris since the two incumbents have kind of sewn the market up between them - and not for the benefit of the punter as they would have you believe :rolleyes:. It would provide some real competition and the market's big enough.
Anyway speculation....have to wait for an announcement.

[All names taken]

Have noted the comments on Vienna / Bratislava here; it's a part of the world I know very well and have a lot of business contacts there. Most people fail to understand just how close these two cities are even though they are in two different countries.....probably not much further than Manchester and Liverpool are. Therefore the catchments overlap substantially.
Was great when SkyEurope ran there but Ryanair jumped on the route from LPL and the best hope is that they switch it to MAN.
What I would really like to see is OS to Vienna not just for the point to point traffic but mainly because they do a good line in connections East and South East which IMO aren't adequately served from here....MUC and ZRH serve ok but VIE often offers better. Some of the wackier places I go to are 3 flights from MAN and I know would only be two if VIE was on offer.
But therein lies the rub - if it's to be any good it would have to operate at a decent frequency and schedule. Is the business there to justify it? Dunno.

[Mr A Tis]

I think the best hope for VIE would be by Star Alliance BMI, maybe a W service with Heathrow, like their Basle route. Would provide point to point and connections.

[Skipness One Echo]

more people than you'd think are aware NZ goes LHR-LAX-AKL

I live in London but travel a lot. Air New Zealand has spent decades building up a loyal following on LHR-LAX and to many are the number one carrier so I am aware of that.

Please learn to spell Hypocracy with an "i" and not an "a" but play the ball and not the man. btw I work in the industry as an analyst so I'm not exactly coming to this with just the opinions in my head, I see a lot of relevant data crossing my desk.

NZ are probably more concerned with MAN-AKL pax, with MAN-LAX-MAN a mere bonus. On top of that, there would be cargo, and the AKL-LAX-AKL traffic to help the route along.
You have no basis for saying this. If you are, how do expect this to compete with a saturated Middle East service to NZ against Emirates on the A380, QR and EY? They'd be crucified on price to New Zealand and MAN-US West Coast is point to point unless they code share out of LAX with AN Other. Again, would bleed cash, but then what do I know.....?

[Excelsbest]

Just had word of a possible sighting of a BA 747 aircraft landing at MAN/EGCC
Any 1 else heard or seen anything as pretty certain it wasn't planned unless they upgraded the LGW or LHR :)

[wanna_be_there]

I live in London but travel a lot. Air New Zealand has spent decades building up a loyal following on LHR-LAX and to many are the number one carrier so I am aware of that.


Well, if you are aware, why did you then compare a possible MAN-LAX service to AF, where very few people knew AF flew LHR-LAX, whereas many do know about NZ's connection points?



btw I work in the industry as an analyst so I'm not exactly coming to this with just the opinions in my head, I see a lot of relevant data crossing my desk


Im aware of your job, you tell us enough, but, believe it or not, your not the only one to work in the airline industry. My points are just as valid as yours, so get off your high horse!


You have no basis for saying this.

I do have a basis for saying this. Please dont undermine my opinions with you superiority complex, as again mine are just as valid as yours. The basis is, if NZ do indeed start AKL-LAX-MAN, then the traffic patterns I suggested are what NZ will go after. Out of interest, What basis do you have to say otherwise? You seem to be focusing on the LAX side of things, despite the fact the flight goes that little bit further


how do expect this to compete with a saturated Middle East service to NZ against Emirates on the A380, QR and EY


So thats it is it? Just because skipness says so, no other airline is allowed to come and compete?
So MAN is just now supposed to turn around to the prospective airlines and say 'sorry, the middle eastern carriers are here, we just dont want you anymore?'

You seem to think the price is the deciding factor, but it isnt the be all and end all.
take a look at this:

KLM MAN-AMS-PVG, J class on 21st April £1253
EK MAN-DXB-PVG, J class 21st April £2075 (with A380 included)

Guess what, EK themselves have said the A380 is going out pretty much full every day! Funny that isnt it. And thats just one example.
Take it the figures were missed whilst being analysed that time

So, it seems the tables are turning, and despite the fuel prices, resesssion and everything else, people do want to fly from their local, as direct as possible.

[mickyman]

Skipness

'If you are, how do expect this to compete'

Tut! tut!

Please read your post before posting as it
saves embarrassment when you 'flag-up' someones
bad spelling!!

MM

[mickyman]

Ecelsbest

It could be a Great Wall going in as they re-start
today.

MM

[doorplane]

Suspect big announcement is that a growing carrier are bringing their call-centre operations to the region.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

excelsbest,

If you google yourself a picture of B2428, a Great Wall Cargo B744F, you will find that the livery would strongly resemble BA viewed from below. This aircraft has just arrived at MAN within the last few minutes and is probably your beastie. SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Suspect big announcement is that a growing carrier are bringing their call-centre operations to the region


Is that the Etihad one that was mentioned in the press around May 2010? DUB/BRU/MAN were the 3 candidates for the centre, but then it all went quiet?

[intortola]

Looking for some info, have just booked an award ticket with AA, best deal in J class was actually routing LGW-MAN-JFK on return sector, LGW-MAN is with BA, is it a hassle free transfer from BA to AA at Man? many thanks

[wanna_be_there]

Im going to put £10 on this being something to do with 'MAN's big press release' tomorrow:

Greater Manchester earmarked for Enterprise Zone | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/budget/s/1413782_greater_manchester_earmarked_for_enterprise_zone)

[cyclops16]

There was also mention in tonights MEN (23/3/11) page 5 under the heading Piccadilly-Victoria link "back on track". In the last paragraph it says as follows

"Millions could also be spent on restoring Victoria ,building two new through platforms at Piccadilly and ANOTHER ONE AT MANCHESTER AIRPORT TO BOOST PASSENGER AND FREIGHT SERVICES"

So it looks like heavy rail is a distinct possibility with a direct link on to mainline services going South


Mark

[learjet50]

Re Your Post re Rail development.

It is very cleverly worded the would Could is in the statement.
Frankly I am not sure where they would put another Plaform at the Airport with the Metrolink Line to go in somewhere as well I cant see anywhere it would fit ?? I stand to be corrected.

Re 2 Extra Lines for Picadilly for Freight at the moment there are only 2 lines which transit Picadilly Station towards Oxford Road ,There are occasions where freight trains have to wait to use these lines as obviously preference is given to Passenger Trains,
I Know the article seem to indicate it could be at the Airport but I am sure they mean Picadilly again I stand to be corrected as there was talk of extending the Lines beyond the Airport station towards the Cargo Village maybe this will happen lets wait and see.. and hope


Good night

[learjet50]

Re your Questionm re route LGW_MAN /JFK

Transfer could not be easier as it all happens in Terminal 3

I would assume your Baggage will be checked thru to JFK from Gatwick.



BA from Gatwick normally arrives at Stand 48 AA to JFK Normally departs from Stand 54 or 55

It is Litrally a 5 min walk Max between the 2 stands On arrive from Gatwick follow the signs for Flight Transfer and not UK Arrivals.

Hve a Nice Trip via Sunny Manchester

[intortola]

thanks Learjet 50, much appreciated

[spannersatcx]

Ecelsbest

It could be a Great Wall going in as they re-start
today.

MM

they are not restarting, they are operating 2 charters, next one on the 25th I think.

[Manchester Kurt]

For information on what is happening with Greater Manchester rail services this forum Manchester Metro Area - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=335) is very good.

There are some rail engineers on there who appear to have very good knowledge of what is planned.

[Nomoresteerage]

ETIHAD, the Middle East Airline, is set to announce a further investment in Greater Manchester, creating scores of jobs.

James Hogan, the Abu Dhabi-based carrier's chief executive, is attending a press conference at Manchester Airport this morning along with bosses from inward investment agency MIDAS (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/midas.html) and Manchester Airport as well as city council leader Sir Richard Leese.

Etihad, which recently announced an expansion of its Manchester-Abu Dhabi services to twice daily from May, has also invested in a new business class lounge at Terminal 1.

The airline, which is also major sponsor of Manchester City FC, said last April that it was considering Manchester as a possible location for a European call centre, which would create around 200 jobs.

Speaking at last year's Greater Manchester Chamber of Commerce annual dinner (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/24497-city-in-the-running-for-etihad-call-centre-jobs.html) James Hogan said Manchester was vying with Dublin and Brussels for the 'significant investment'.



http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/145397-etihad-set-to-reveal-jobs-and-investment-boost.html? (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/145397-etihad-set-to-reveal-jobs-and-investment-boost.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NorthWest_24th_Mar_2011_-_Daily_E-mail)

[wanna_be_there]

Now confirmed

Etihad to create 160 jobs at Manchester call centre - ttglive (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=4662377&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=4662377&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=4662377&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=4662377&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=4662377&articleTitle=Etihad)

160 jobs and the call centre will actually be on the airport site (Emirates European call centre is in Wilmslow).

SO, 14 weekly flights, Man City sponsorship and now the call centre. Seems MAN is flavour of the month with Etihad!

[mickyman]

spannersatcx

Fair enough.......

MM

[roverman]

Yes, you weren't dreaming. It was a DC-3 / C-47 / Dakota which just arrived on Stand 60. BBMF ship going for a paint refresh at Air Livery. Hope they remembered there's no Avgas here anymore. A while since any taildragging was committed at MAN. Nice aeroplane, which no doubt enjoyed using MAN's remaining wiggly WWII taxiways to see the way ahead.

[RoyHudd]

What is BBMF? Think I'll pop into Air Livery and see the ship tomorrow. Living history. Thanks for the heads-up Roverman.

[compton3bravo]

That will be the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight dear boy.

[Jamie2k9]

EZY to start MAN - BFS from Oct 31. Twice daily. BFS based in mornings and MAN based most evenings.

[easyflyer83]

Plus SXF and MAD. Both 5 times weekly or daily except days 2 and 6.

[MUFC_fan]

BFS, SXF and MAD?

And the lottery numbers are...:ok:

[Manchester Kurt]

Bored with Benidorm? Now you can fly direct from Manchester to Baghdad | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1415343_bored-with-benidorm-now-you-can-fly-direct-from-manchester-to-baghdad) interesting.

[All names taken]

(selfishly) that's good news about Aldergrove. Had used Baby route since it began, loads never great unless there was a match on. Since most of my trips to NI don't involve Belfast, BFS is actually very central for the whole of NI and I was a bit pi$$ed off when they moved to BHD. Last went on it about three weeks ago, there was about 20 odd on the outbound and 40 odd on the return. Baby might rue their decision to move now they've let Easy in.

[All names taken]

Can anyone help on this?
I've just booked a couple of trips East in May both with Swiss (very aggressive pricing on some routes atm).
Both trips are outbound on the 13.45 dep. Strangely both confirmations say the flight is operated by Lufthansa (an A319). The return on one trip is via FRA and that (correctly) states that the flight will be operated British Midland.
But what's going on with Lufthansa operating flights for Swiss?
Just curious.

[DCS99]

"But what's going on with Lufthansa operating flights for Swiss?"

Lufty were helping Swiss out last summer season with some wetleased 737s.
What's the exact flight/date of your LH operated service?

[All names taken]

DCS99

It's the LX395 on 22 May and then again on 29 May - flugzeuge is stated as A319.

[Cazza_fly]

SXF Berlin from 3rd October - Upto 5x weekly (MAN based)
MAD Madrid from 2nd November - Upto 5x weekly (MAN based)
BFS Belfast from 31st October - Upto 14x weekly flights (BFS based except Saturday morning departures and certain evening deps are ex-MAN).

All bookable now but expected to be on the main homepage and officially announced by midday.

[easyflyer83]

Generally speaking, BFS will operate the AM service whilst MAN operate the PM flight.

[DCS99]

"It's the LX395 on 22 May and then again on 29 May - flugzeuge is stated as A319. "

At present, it's a Lufty B737-300 operating both those LX395 MAN-ZRH services.

The Mother Company is helping out again this summer...:)

[Skipness One Echo]

The Mother Company is helping out again this summer
Father surely?

[Mr A Tis]

Would have been good to see the old Helvetic FK100s back in. Do they still operate anywhere for Swiss or is that deal now over?

[Ian Brooks]

They used to go to BHX upto recently and the occasional MAN flight


Ian B

[OltonPete]

Still three daily into BHX, Manchester can have them if they want ;) although
reliability has improved of late after short run of tech issues.

Pete

[DCS99]

"Would have been good to see the old Helvetic FK100s back in. Do they still operate anywhere for Swiss or is that deal now over? "

Still operating for LX - AFAIK, summer schedule is BHX (as mentioned), but also Prague, Lyon, Milan and Budapest all from Zurich.

I too miss the little pink Fokkers :ok:

[superspotter]

One of the Helvetic Fokkers, unusually, has just operated the swiss service here into LUX. Just thought I would share that with you ;)

[Mr A Tis]

Berlin, Belfast & Madrid are now in the EZY drop down menu for Manch.

[DomyDom]

Great news. Well done EZY:)

[OltonPete]

Berlin & Madrid are Manchester based aircraft.

Berlin from 3/10 five weekly (no Tue/Sat) and Madrid 6 (no Sat)*

Berlin M-F (ex Tue) 07.45/12.25 and 13.00 dep on Sunday

Madrid 16.10/22.20 Monday-Friday slight difference on Sunday.

Pete

* Berlin changes times from the winter schedule to a Berlin based aircraft

[Mr A Tis]

With the RYR Madrid operating at 1850 & the EZY at 1610- looks like they will be head to head. Tough for anyone wanting a morning departure, but will be interesting to see who comes out on top of this one.

[wanna_be_there]

well, regarding easyjet, when more aircraft eventually make their way to MAN, I can see MAD going 12-14 weekly, with both AM/PM departures.
Its well known many mancunians head to LPL for their MAD services, so now the services are available at MAN, and both with lo-co's for theor cheapest forms, I can see Easy (or ryanair) seeing the demand and adding more flights.

At the moment, many from the MAN area head to LPL for easyjets' MAD/SXF, so, now the same airline has opened those 2 routes from MAN, I wonder how much this will impact the loads on said routes from LPL?

Im also intregued to see what RYR's response to this will be? Probably noting at all, but as seen as they are in expansion mode at MAN, you never know......

[Hamburg 2K8]

Coming into MAN at 01.45 tomorrow morning on EZY from TFS, will 23L or 05R be in use? If 23L is in use, will a roll to the end be required or can our A320 make the halfway 360 turn?

[MUFC_fan]

23R was in operation for landings both Monday and Tuesday evenings (post 9pm).

23L was being used for departures.

[roverman]

Hamburg2k,

If you land 23L an A320 can make a 180 within the runway edge lights at any point, or use the lit (blue edge lights) turning circle about 2000 metres along the runway on the south side. However, if ATC have traffic following close behind they may instruct you to roll to the end and vacate at Yankee, and then await backtrack from Whisky 1. Important to note ATC instructions in all cases rather than assume any action.

[Hamburg 2K8]

MUFC_Fan thanks for the reply.

But due to the night work on 23R this runway is closed between 23.00-05.30 (I think) so I assume given the current wind direction that 23L will be in use. Can anyone at this stage confirm? And if so, which exit will be used?

[Will_McKenzie]

Hamburg 2K8, its is 23L/05R Sun-Thurs from 21.30-06.30 (Local)
If you are on 23L in A320 you can turn at midpoint turning circle, or at your discretion at any point, though if you are in a sequence you will have to roll to the very end and hold in the loop to backtrack.
If the surface wind is calm it is more than likely you will be on 05R though to save you!!

[Hamburg 2K8]

Thanks for the replys. Very helpful.

[spannersatcx]

For those interested the 1st VS 330 arrives tomorrow (should of been today but was tech!) should be around 0930 if on time! 1st service will be the vs75 on 2/4/11.

[42psi]

If the surface wind is calm it is more than likely you will be on 05R though to save you!!



Although the Mobberly/Knutsford anti-noise lobby means you'll stay on 23L until there is a significant tail wind component

:eek:

[Hamburg 2K8]

Landed on 23L, backtracked from the turnaround point, halfway I think. Landed at 1.30AM, got to baggage hall about 1.45AM, screen stated we arrived at 1.37AM and said all bags to be delivered by 2.07AM, at 1.55AM we were still waiting, around 12 came through and then nothing until 2.05AM, although the screen stated delivery completed at 1.59AM, everyone was ammused at that. Eventually got our bags at 2.08AM! What is going on at T3? A friend who was with me said she has had trouble at T3 before, T1 in my past experainces, has been much better. How is the information on the screens updated?

[Trash_Hauler]

Landed on 23L, backtracked from the turnaround point, halfway I think. Landed at 1.30AM, got to baggage hall about 1.45AM, screen stated we arrived at 1.37AM and said all bags to be delivered by 2.07AM, at 1.55AM we were still waiting, around 12 came through and then nothing until 2.05AM, although the screen stated delivery completed at 1.59AM, everyone was ammused at that. Eventually got our bags at 2.08AM! What is going on at T3? A friend who was with me said she has had trouble at T3 before, T1 in my past experainces, has been much better. How is the information on the screens updated?

By chance, were you on schedule? I reckon you weren't. Perhaps the handling agent was not staffed up for your after hours arrival. If the guys knock off at 2300, they are under no obligation to stay on after that. Also, the handling agents are only liable staffing wise for on schedule arrivals. Everything other than that is at the end of the queue so to speak. All the handling agents do have staff on overnight, but not to the same levels as during the day.

[MUFC_fan]

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/singapore-airlines-celebrates-25-years-at-manchester-airport/

They change their mind more than the missus but they're still here!

Here's to the next 25 years!:ok:

[Skipness One Echo]

Are Virgin running the new A330 on the VS075 right through the school holiday peak or is the B744 being subbed at all?

Singapore Airlines has seen its Manchester-Singapore service increase in frequency, as well as incorporate a stopover at Munich,
Yes, how pleased we all were at the chance to see Germany...uber spin!!!
Congrats all the same on staying the course.

[roverman]

Skipness,

The VS schedule looks like an A330 on VS 075 daily from today, indefinitely.
A B744 will operate daily too - 4 days to MCO (making 11 x in total), 2 days to LAS and on Sundays to BGI. LAS will be the longest non-stop sector ex-MAN this year, unless SQ drop the MUC stopover. Aircraft will changeover with LGW orignators down route, I believe. Don't know what they have planned for Winter yet.

[spannersatcx]

BGI switches from Sunday to Monday from tomorrow. Tomorrow is the 1st flt to LAS 2nd will be thursday all the other days the 2nd flt goes to MCO with all operated by the 744. The 75 is the 330 from now on.

The 330 changeover will see the positioner for the 2nd a/c arrive on a thursday evening then operate the 75 on friday, with the inbound 76 going on to LGW, that's for April, only. After that it resumes the normal schedule as it is now with the 744, swopping in MCO.

[BHX5DME]

1,214,346 pax in March 2011

Rolling 12 months 17,913,290 down 2.92%

BHX5DME

[Code 100]

Is the pax percentage down due to Easter being in March last year?

[dwlpl]

Good Friday 2010 - 2nd April.

[Code 100]

Thanks dwlpl.

I suppose that only the last five days of March 2010 fell in the 2 week Easter (school) holiday period then. Would that be enough time to make March 2010 3.87% better than this year?

I seem to remember flying TOM MAN-PMI in very late March. T2 was packed with families.

[wanna_be_there]

Rolling 12 months 17,913,290 down 2.92%



I suppose that figure isnt too bad.

Theres a lot of new services comming online between now-November, including the new LAS yesterday, so 2011 should be well up on 2010.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

New scheduled services are a very welcome positive but we have reductions to factor in too. The BMI cutback on MAN-LHR is substantial; the Tripoli service by Libyan is gone (for obvious reasons); FlyBe to Manston and EasyJet to Helsinki finish soon. CSA is not returning this Summer, neither is FlyBe to Bournemouth. So on the scheduled front, both good and bad news is in the mix.

With regard to March specifically, it will be interesting to observe the reduction in holiday sales to Egyptian and Tunisian resorts in particular. Egypt is unlikely to recover to anything like 2010 volumes this year. Spain missed its chance to mop up customers displaced from North Africa in March as the widely publicized threat of strikes discouraged switched bookings.

I suspect that the IT sector is the likely culprit for the March drop. Weakness can be expected to persist for the year ahead not only due to reduced capacity in key markets such as Egypt, but also because many families are feeling the pinch financially. Leisure travel spend is discretionary, and high oil prices and taxes are inhibiting latent demand.

Whilst I would rather be proven wrong, I stand by my assessment in earlier (more detailed) postings that 2011 will be a difficult year rather than a boom one. Monthly drops in passenger figures in the single digits % should not come as a shock to anybody with geopolitical awareness.

SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Oh come on Shed, why the doom and gloom all the time?


FlyBe to Manston and EasyJet to Helsinki finish soon


But dont forget Flybe has directly replaced MSE with LDY, and easyjet directly replaced HEL with BIO.

Libyan to Tripoli will be back once the troubles have died down.

So, not as much doom and gloom as originally forecast.

When you take the above into account, its only really BD to LHR that is a direct loss that hasnt been replaced elsewhere, theres more increases than decreases in the scheduled market. (Im not going to go over the list again as its already been well publicised on here already)

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Why doom and gloom all the time? Not all the time - just when appropriate. I deal in reality rather than fantasy. What I wish for in an ideal world and what I expect in the real one are very different things. As I said, I would love to be proven wrong. However, aviation professionals are best served by recognizing and planning around economic and geopolitical realities. A wise king will not kill the messenger who informs him of news he would rather not receive; knowledge is power. I would love to see oil trading at $40 per barrel, but right now it doesn't. I would love to see peace, sweetness and light in North Africa and the Middle East, but that is not the reality. It just ain't so, and we must deal with what is so.

I am well aware of the new scheduled services due to be launched at MAN this year and I welcome all of them. But it is silly not to factor in the bad news too. The "Big Picture" suggests a tough 2011. Be prepared for it. Forewarned is forearmed and all that. Blissful ignorance won't protect jobs and services.

Rgds. SHED.

ADDED: Libyan to Tripoli will be back once the troubles have died down ...

Hmmm ... care to put a date on that one? Libya is in the throes of a full-scale civil war. Libyan runways and aircraft are considered legitimate military targets. Is the LAA fleet safely hangared away from the battle? Are LAA staff alive and safe? Does LAA still have access to its cash reserves? I'll expect them back at MAN when I see them! And YES, I would love that to be soon ... BUT ...

[TCX69]

Has anyone seen bmi A330 G-WWBM out of AirLivery? Should of been repainted into Star Alliance livery & ferrying to LHR in the morning (5th).

[OltonPete]

TCX69

I noticed it tonight on flightradar24 departing Manchester and
flying over BHX in the cruise. Not sure what time that was but
this evening after 18.00.

Pete

[wanna_be_there]

But it is silly not to factor in the bad news too


Yes, I did factor in the bad news, and commented on how 2 out of your 4 examples have been directly replaced with another route, thus, reducing and substantial loss of pax in the process.
Like I say, the only major 'loss' in the scheduled market is that of Libyan (who will be back, as not all troubles last forever, yes, might not be this year, but they will), and BD to LHR.

At the end of the day, when you look at one side of the situation, its easy to see doom and gloom, but the imbalance points more towards a posative outlook. 3x new A330 services to the middle east alone outwieghs the loss of BD/Libyan, and as mentioned before, BE replaced MSE with LDY, whilst easyjet replaced HEL with BIO.

I agree that with oil at its current price, it is slightly worrying, but, with all of the new services that are due to start, I am sure 2011 will prove better pax wise than 2010. 2012 may be a different story, but lets have 2011 run its course before we analyse 2012 deeply.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

WBT -

You seem to be completely disregarding the IT charter sector. Holidays, leisure. That is where the pain will be most evident. A modest increase in scheduled capacity is but one part of the equation. We all get to hear about a new thrice weekly service to BIO (yes, I know about it ... I'm booked on it!) but a raft of B752/B763 charters to Sharm-el-Sheikh disappear quietly from the programmes. There are no press releases, but the capacity is gone.

Even on the scheduled services, the capacity increases need to be kept in perspective. Virgin goes from 10 x B744 to 7 x A333 and 7 x B744 per week. Etihad will be 14 x A332 versus 7 x B773. Capacity increases yes, game changers no. EK/QR capacity increases are more substantial, and the sixth based EZY is positive news too. I fear that the new RYR schedules are predatory, targeting core established Monarch and Jet2 type routes ... a mixed blessing. They risk carving up existing business.

Factor in the known scheduled cutbacks, the extremely difficult IT backdrop, the hard economic times and assorted wars / revolutions in key markets and you will appreciate why a negative stance is justified. A modest net gain in scheduled service capacity can not carry the day alone.

Rgds. SHED.

[Mr A Tis]

WBT.
Just because a new route comes on line does not mean it's going to be successful.
I've just travelled on the new BMI MAN-BSL-MAN and the numbers were decidely thin for an A319. My previous trips to BSL from MAN were with SWISS & they struggled to fill an RJ100,and that only operated 3 times a week.
To be honest a "W" pattern Vienna service would probably have been more successful for BMI, but I hope their BSL picks up, but a daily flight is a big ask.

I'm with Shed on this one, I wouldn't get too over excited. Any pax increase at all this year will be a result. The IT market will definitely be down this summer & don't forget half the TCX A330 is to go in October too.
Probably the new RYR routes will be the saving grace of extra pax to offset losses.

[GavinC]

All,

Here is a link to the airport city plans.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_downloads/Airport_City.pdf

Note the render of the airport with the T3 expansion and T1-T2 link in place as well as the render of changes to road access and the metrolink alignment.

Gavin.

[Ian Brooks]

Comes up as page not found!


Ian B

[GavinC]

try it now.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

A Ryanair press release confirms that its latest bust up is with Alicante Airport operator AENA, which is mandating use of airbridges at additional cost. As a result, RYR is to axe 80% of its programme at ALC with 31 routes dropped completely and 27 retained at reduced frequency. Based aircraft drop from 11 to 2. Interestingly, despite this, MAN-ALC is amongst the 27 survivors for Winter 2011/2. Although nominally a "frequency reduction" there was no comparable service in Winter 2010/1, and a drop from Summer 2011 capacity is to be expected anyway. It seems that maintaining presence on this route is something of a priority for RYR. Services from ALC to LBA/LPL are also retained at reduced frequency. SHED.

[GavinC]

Could MAN be a beneficiary of the Alicante bust up with based Aircraft moving here?

[TSR2]

It's a bit misleading to quote cuts from a summer schedule to a winter schedule. Surely there would be a reduced number of flights anyway.

[wanna_be_there]

but a raft of B752/B763 charters to Sharm-el-Sheikh disappear quietly from the programmes. There are no press releases, but the capacity is gone


Yes, but how many B757's and B767's are leaving the TOM/TCX fleets? Yes, they may not be as filled on the new routes they will be placed on, but, they are still there none-the-less.


Factor in the known scheduled cutbacks, the extremely difficult IT backdrop, the hard economic times and assorted wars / revolutions in key markets and you will appreciate why a negative stance is justified. A modest net gain in scheduled service capacity can not carry the day alone



Just because a new route comes on line does not mean it's going to be successful


Whoever said us nothern lot were miserable seem to be right on the mark looking at this forum. Yes, there are one or 2 cutbacks, and yes, oil may not be at its optimium price, but, MAN has worked hard to get the new services it has secured, probably the most new services in the last 2-3 years, and still people moan!
What about the fact that, as of April 13th, MAD will finally be back on the departure boards after a 2-3 year absence? What about the fact that we finally have our Berlin route back as of november?
The simple fact is, theres a lot more comming in than going out. Aside from the charter market which changes yearly, and lets face it, has been in decline for years now, so nothing new, if all we have lost is 4 5xCRJ to Libya, 7xDash8 to MSE, 3xA319 to HEL and the equivilent of say, 2xA320 to LHR, as opposed to the extensive list of whats new, Id say we havent fared as badly as being made out. And its not fantasy, its clearly there to see.

At the end of the day, If were were in Birmingham, they I could see a need to grumble, but come on, we've been blessed with 16+ new services, are we never happy?!?!?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

WBT -

Reporting on real market conditions is not a matter of moaning or promoting joy/misery ... it is about compiling reliable data based upon which businesses can competently plan for the future. You seem to be in the camp of those spin doctors who believe that if you say "everything is wonderful" often enough then it will be so. Have you though about becoming an MP? I prefer to assess real world data as it actually is, not as I would dearly like it to be, though I can certainly see the attraction of living life on happy pills!

I will not repeat the facts listed in earlier postings, but they remain truths. Brent Crude closed over $120/bbl last night, and it appears to be in a sustained rising trajectory (not a brief spike to $147 as in 2008). That is serious stuff. A real concern for airlines. UK Consumers are facing VAT at 20%, rising inflation and a squeeze on household incomes (not to mention job security). Airlines and tour operators are well aware of all this. They have to be, and they have to incorporate these realities into their forecasting and planning if they wish to see their businesses survive and prosper in the future.

The major tour operators will redeploy assets displaced from markets such as Egypt and Tunisia, but only to the extent that profitability can be maintained. If they move significant additional capacity into Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece they again come head-to-head with the no-frills carriers such as Ryanair. This squeezes margins (to arguably unattractive levels based upon business risk). And this also puts them back inside the Eurozone where they have been strategically reducing exposure over recent seasons. The "Club Med" countries also come with the risk of endemic industrial action as citizens there protest against austerity programmes. Tourists are always a favourite target. So yes, the big tour operators will redeploy such capacity as they deem sustainable, but they will not pile on marginal product for the sake of volume alone. UK Tour Operators have matured: their goal is sustainable profits, not customer volume targets. Remember too that in the time since the big UK tour operators cut back in the Eurozone, hotel groups there have signed long-term bed contracts with operators from new markets (Russia, Poland etc.); UK companies can't just decide to waltz back in at the drop of a hat. There is more to it than that, and hoteliers want long-term commitments.

In answer to your question asking whether I am ever happy [with progress at MAN] my answer is this. I am neither happy nor unhappy; I evaluate factors affecting business according to real data, not emotions. Obviously, I would like to see MAN prosper along with the airlines and tour operators which support the airport, but I will not report fantasy data for the sake of spreading good cheer on the PPRuNe forum. My contributions to the PPRuNe discussions endeavour to educate and inform other users, as I hope to learn from them in turn. I will not promote happy talk and spin as economic reality; readers here deserve better than that. They can read "Harry Potter" over a frothy cup of cocoa if they want a feelgood top-up. If they read my postings I'll tell it as it is - good, bad or indifferent.

There is much to commend your super-happy outlook on life; you must have a great time and I wish you well! You're probably great company at a party. But sometimes inconvenient realities do intrude and must be taken in to account. Libya is not facing "troubles", it is embroiled in a ruinous civil war with no easy resolution in sight. Oil is at an elevated price, economies are hurting, Western Governments are engaged in "QE to the Moon." Top business leaders MUST take account of such realities if they are to be successful stewards of their companies going forward. And its no bad thing for we contributors here on PPRuNe to face facts too.

Rgds. SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

There is much to commend your super-happy outlook on life; you must have a great time and I wish you well! You're probably great company at a party. But sometimes inconvenient realities do intrude and must be taken in to account


Now come on shed, there is no need to belittle my posts!
Im not reporting 'super happy spin', Im mearly commenting on the simple, basic fact, that more capacity has been added this year than we have lost (so far).
Im well aware of all the market conditions you point out, but Im mearly saying that not just the doom and gloom should be pointed out. Yes, realities should be kept in check, but, surely by all the airlines adding the capacity they are, know what they are doing and the fact that we have 16+ new services, with 4 completely new destinations for 2011 shouldnt be overlooked.


Libya is not facing "troubles", it is embroiled in a ruinous civil war with no easy resolution in sight


Well, its not something that will last forever. Yes, 2011, and even 2012 will proably not see a return to 'normality'* for Libya, but, eventually it will.
(*when I say normality, I know Libya will never fully be a open, democratic state, but, by normality I mean where at least trade continues and once again passengers can travel to/from the country).

[mickyman]

Shed,

Definately a cup half empty type of guy!

Still summers on its way......oh shi* - never mind.

MM

[All names taken]

Oh come on SHED, can we not be happy for the positives? The route development people at MAN have done a wonderful job lately and deserve a bit of praise. It must be soul destroying to work so hard to get new services in, during difficult times and then read such negative comments on a forum like this.
I expect you might be partially right but reading your comments is wrist slitting stuff. Manchester is doing relatively well in hard times so let's just be grateful for that. It could be a lot lot worse - reading about some of the other airports on this forum.

On another note I have now sampled the brand new Lufthansa (re BMI) business class service between MAN and FRA which despite the gloom (sorry) was actually full in Business and I think more or less full at the back too although I couldn't see properly. Credit where credit's due, the CC did a good job and were almost as good as the LH people (I think the only difference is cultural - where good manners and courtesy are engrained in the German psyche, it's bit more forced when Brits try it). But it was fine really.
Noticeable difference though is the typical lazy announcements of the FC = '(yawning...) starting our descent over London, then up over Birmingham and landing on the South Westerly runway at Manchester''
Inbound flights don't route over Birmingham (some outbounds do) but over Leicester and Derby (I'd say more or less up the route of the M1 from visuals)....how do I know this? Well, many a Lufthansa and Swiss pilot has accurately pointed this out unlike their British counterparts who should know better. Sloppiness and inaccuracy are not attributes I'm comfortable with in a pilot tbh.

[Skipness One Echo]

Yes, but how many B757's and B767's are leaving the TOM/TCX fleets? Yes, they may not be as filled on the new routes they will be placed on, but, they are still there none-the-less.

Given that you work for Thomson would be good if you could tell us maybe?
Same fleet size but carrying fewer passengers is not good if I am understanding you correctly. Ryanair will put a dent in some of the traditional based routes, they will grow the markets but slam the yields.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

WBT -

It is not my intention to "belittle" your posts. My replies are not phrased to suggest that at all. In turn, I should remind you that my posts do not report doom and gloom alone; I report ALL news about MAN as I come across it. I just don't turn a blind eye to the bad stuff.

MM -

You are hilarious as always. My cup may be half empty, but it is a large cup and it contains copious quantities of Vimto. The very nectar of the Gods. And I can hit the bottle at will when the cup runs dry. So I am content.

Rgds. Shed.

[wanna_be_there]

Well, Im sorry shed, but I did find this:


There is much to commend your super-happy outlook on life; you must have a great time and I wish you well! You're probably great company at a party


Very belittling. You may as well have said 'run along boy, you have a lot to learn in life', which I find quite insulting.

At the end of the day, Im actually quite happy with where MAN lies at the present moment in time. Yes, 2012 will probably be very different, as I doubt as much capacity will need to be added, the fuel increases will hit hard if the prices are at the same rate as now when it comes to the airlines renewing their fuel hedging prices.

In terms of doom and gloom, lets put MAN into perspective shall we?

BHX has had the grand total of 0 new routes so far this year (I dont count RYR cutting 1 destination to add another as an increase, as its the same capacity). Even KLM steered clear of adding capacity into BHX when LBA/MAN/BRS and so on got an extra flight each.

DSA lost easyjet the back end of this year, gained a few Ryanair flights, but with the latest spat, even ALC will be gone again.

LPL pax figures have gone down again lately, and so on.

So, with Cargo increasing at MAN, Pax figures going upwards, upgrades, new airport city, new control tower, new destinations, new services, why does the doom and gloom have to take such a front stance?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

All Names Taken -

I believe you have answered your own question. I quote: "Manchester is doing RELATIVELY well in hard times" [emphasis mine]. That is my message: times are tough, there is bad news out there as well as the good. I acknowledge news of all varieties, but I celebrate good news as fervently as any. I just don't consider it helpful to bury the bad news. If you read back, this line of discussion springs from some contributors' assessment that happy times are here again (see March stats posting and follow-ons). My intention is to restore balance to the discussion, and that means acknowledging the big picture. Not just the juicy bits. Nowhere do I decry the great work and commitment by the MAG team who work tirelessly to attract new business; well done them. But they work within limitations dictated by real world concerns, and if we wish to be well informed we all need to acknowledge those realities.

Rgds. SHED.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

WBT -

"Run along boy???" You're doing a great job of supplying your own insults! As I said, there are no personal insults from me. Not my style. Is it really offensive to be considered good company? Take it as a compliment. It is.

"You have alot to learn in life." Well, we all have! Unfortunately, many don't realise it. True genius is the realisation that you know very little about nothing much!

Now a couple of points from your final paragraph. "Pax figures going up" ... they're not. That's the issue which started this discussion (March stats refer).

"Why does doom and gloom have to take such a front stance?" - It doesn't. But its existence does need to be acknowledged and taken into account. Exclusive reporting of happy stories alone is about as useful as a North Korean news broadcast.

Rgds. SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Pax figures going up" ... they're not


But they were for the 4 consecutive months before hand, and with a new LAS service, the start of the summer season, easter and Ryanair, I suspect April will be up once more.


Why does doom and gloom have to take such a front stance?" - It doesn't. But its existence does need to be acknowledged and taken into account. Exclusive reporting of happy stories alone is about as useful as a North Korean news broadcast


Yes but we have the 'news' to give us the doom and gloom, thats what they are in the business for.
Also, whilst not to the same, sombering degree of your posts, bad news has been reported on here, the loss of easy to HEL, the loss of MSE and the fact BD has reduced LHR and so on.

At the end of the day, its all very easy and well to speculate what will happen in the future, but, as seen as 90% of news is doom and gloom, and due to the circumstances you have listed previous, is it so hard to grant us our little bit of good news and happiness, as seen as MAN suffered so in the past few years?
As well as work, aviation is my hobby, and you are supposed to enjoy your hobby, but lately, its just 'depression, depression, depression'.

Sure, if services fail, or the situation dips back to constant negativity again, you are more than welcome to come in, but come on, surely a little light heartedness wont go amiss on here?

[PPRuNe Pop]

A friendly consideration. This thread is about MAN. Do not be tempted to wander. If you must do that leave this one.

AA&R mods

[compton3bravo]

I do hope they are better than last April Wanna Be There as there was a number of days last April when no flying took place if one remembers!

[berliner57]

Evening all,

Noticed a Jazz flight arriving at Manchester this morning, was not listed on arrivals on the website, wondering if this is to do with a possible resumption of Air Canada flights to Toronto.

[andy mach 1]

Just the Thomas Cook aircraft returning after their winter lease.

Andy

[wanna_be_there]

Unfortunatly not berliner.

Thomas cook is leasing the aircraft to jazz, so either, its returning off lease, or, maintence at the thomas cook hangar.

On a seperate note, I see EK has an interlining agreement with BE to offer connections IOM-MAN-DXB(-onwards). I was aware BE codeshare with EY, but how long has this EK agreement been going?

[lfc84]

March 2010

[A330ETOPS]

Is the return of cx pax service still on track for later on this year?

[Suzeman]

A lot of the recent "debate" was sparked by the fact that March passenger figures were down.

March and April figures are always generally confusing because of where the Easter Holidays fall. Last year Easter was on 4th April and so the start of the holidays were in March; this year Easter falls on 24th April - about as late as it can be and 3 weeks later than last year.Therefore there is none of the Easter 2011 break traffic in the March figures.

It is therefore usual not to read too much into individual figures from March and April, but to look at the combined March + April figures to get a sensible idea of trends. In addition, the Airport's financial year end is at the end of March - and reporting figures therefore get skewed as some FY's can have most of two Easter peaks in and some times hardly any. I know there were discussions at some stage to change the financial year end to get rid of this issue but it didn't happen.

This time around, as compton3b has pointed out, April's comparisons will be distorted because of the volcanic ash debacle. No doubt this will complicate Olten Pete's detailed analysis of BHX! Hopefully MAN will do the work for us and give out figures with and without the effects of the ash cloud.;). Can anyone remember how many days were affected? Certainly there were at least 6 days off (15th -20th incl) but I remember some other closures too - some of which were in May just to complicate the situation further.

And finally the proximity of bank and public holidays at the end of April also serve to make comparisons difficult.

So when the figures come out at the end of the month, no doubt there will be another interesting discussion :E

Suzeman

[Ian Brooks]

Well Suzeman there you go, a lovely little project for you to have a look at whilst on the beer trail, mind you it might not make much sense at the end
or maybe it will lol!

By the way Kev had an interesting trip home Sea King/C-17/A330/A300

Ian B

[Jamie2k9]

MAN - ALC with Ryanair this winter will operate on Tues, Thur and Sat. No other routes released and will not be for a while yet.

[spannersatcx]

Is the return of cx pax service still on track for later on this year?
No, there are no plans for CX to restart pax flts to MAN.

[airhumberside]

On a seperate note, I see EK has an interlining agreement with BE to offer connections IOM-MAN-DXB(-onwards). I was aware BE codeshare with EY, but how long has this EK agreement been going?
Obviously not covering MAN for this long, but since at least October 2002. EK are listed as an interline partner in an old BE Winter 2002-3 timetable I have

[Suzeman]

More details of the Airport City are now emerging - this from today's MEN

Revealed: First look at Manchester's £400m Airport City | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1417365_revealed-first-look-at-manchesters-400m-airport-city)

As you might gather from the advanced state of the project, discussion on this has been going on for several years and was boosted by the announcement of the Enterprise Zone in the budget.

Suzeman

[MAN777]

What is interesting is the completed T3 Pier with parking on both sides, do you think this is back on the agenda ?

And if you look very carefully you can see the metrolink underpass where it comes in from the old ringway road and drops towards the station. There is ongoing preparation (piling) at the station for the metrolink as we speak.

[spannersatcx]

it is an artist’s impression don't forget. Is that a CX pax a/c on T2 I see!:eek:

[TURIN]

it is an artist’s impression don't forget. Is that a CX pax a/c on T2 I see!

Yes, along side Biman, AirNZ, Thai Int B787 and a BA A380. :E

[mickyman]

TURIN

I cant believe you've not pointed out the TWO AirIndia B777's in the corner !!

MM

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

Just being nosey on two slightly unusual movements in the last fortnight...

Was interested in the reasons behind the return charter to Peking on AB's A332 and the charter to Fort Lauderdale on LS's 757.

Maybe the latter was cruise pax or crew?

[GlennTheBaker]

The Fort Lauderdale was a charter taking Polish shipyard workers from Gdansk to FLL via MAN and YQX.

[AircraftOperations]

I was actually in FLL last year when a similar Jet2.com 757 flight touched down full of Polish workers.
The aircraft and passengers seemed a little out of place.

[wanna_be_there]

Was interested in the reasons behind the return charter to Peking on AB's A332


This flight went out on 1st as AB1500 and back yesterday as AB1503, carrying BMW salespersons to Beijing. Operated via Munich both ways.

[Scottie Dog]

Does anyone have any further information with regards to the start date for the construction of the new ATC tower - and also of the chosen design.

Please feel free to PM me if you do not wish to post in general.

Many thanks

Scottie Dog

[Ian Brooks]

I think the tenders are are only just in or due in next few days so I don`t
have a start date but completion is 2 years from start date

Not a lot of help I know Scottie

Ian

[UFGBOY]

u 2 get a room!!

[rkenyon]

Could somebody please let me know what the work going on in the south east corner of the airfield is?

Cheers

[Suzeman]

Probably something to do with this

New Manchester Airport car park investigated over claims it does not have planning permission | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1417260_new-manchester-airport-car-park-investigated-over-claims-it-does-not-have-planning-permission)

Suzeman

[JC25]

So bmibaby are closing up at MAN at the end of the Summer season... this will leave some gaps in the route map for MAN for other airlines to pick off:

Knock
Newquay
Bordeaux
Toulouse
Perpignan
Montpellier
Lourdes

Any ideas who may pick them up? Ryanair may be interested some and maybe Flybe will be interested in one or two of the French destinations and NQY? Given they recently started EDI-NOC, maybe they'll now give MAN-NOC a go.

[ib26uk]

bmibaby to quit MAN ?! Are you sure ?! I`ll wait for the official announcement before I believe anything

[pug]

Already announced..

Bmibaby pulls out of Manchester and Cardiff - ttglive (http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=3208370&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=4670822&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=4670822&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=4670822&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=4670822&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=4670822&articleTitle=Bmibaby%20pulls%20out%20of%20Manchester%20and%2 0Cardiff)

[wanna_be_there]

I am not surprised at this in the slightest. Bmibaby have faffed around too much at MAN, and now the other big loco operators have grown around them leaving little point for WW being there.

They were going to serve MAD, but oh no, wait, RYR/EZY jumped on that one. They applied to run SXF, oh wait, EZY got on that one. Then they moved their belfast flights to BHD, and look who jumped on the MAN-BFS, yep, easyjet.

On some routes they are also being squeezed out. LIS now has TAP (with better fares and more frequency), LS has always shared PRG (and Im not being funny, but in MAN, more people knew LS served PRG than WW)

As for the rest of their routes, NQY, was hardly a B737 route, and the french routes are probably best suited to BE, as they seem to specialise in that, and they have the might of AF befind them.

As for the Bmi group at MAN, seems they have never actually known what to do with MAN. They had longhaul, that went, then they had WW on the likes of NQY/BHD/BOD/MPL, but then BDregional on EDI/LDE, then mainline on BSL/LHR, and now BD serving LH on FRA. madness!!!
To prove they dont know what they are doing, they have just taken on more crew to be based at MAN, just a matter of weeks ago!

Lourdes


As for this route isnt it staying as im sure it is bmi regional and not baby on this?

[Skipness One Echo]

Lourdes

If anyone needs a miracle it's Baby!

[Cazza_fly]

As for the rest of their routes, NQY, was hardly a B737 route

May not be a 737 route in terms of distance for this a/c but in terms of PAX numbers if definately was. In the summer months this was a very big route for bmibaby, hence they started the route earlier than ever this year in February!

As for this route isnt it staying as im sure it is bmi regional and not baby on this?

No. bmibaby operate this route 2x weekly on their 737s. bmi regional could take this route up i guess though. bmi regional operate Lyon from Manchester, perhaps this is what you were thinking?

[wanna_be_there]

bmi regional operate Lyon from Manchester, perhaps this is what you were thinking?


haha, yeah thats the one! I knew it was a french route beginning with L haha.

Well, who could pick up the routes then?

NQY-Eastern airways with the dash 8 maybe?
TLS/LDE/PRP- flybe on a mix of dash 8 or the new E175?
MPL- Ryanair seem to serve this sirport from the likes of BHX?
BOD- easyjet maybe? If not, then another one for BE.
NOC- Aer Arran will surely jump on this, as its what they do best with GWY/WAT.

[Jamie2k9]

NOC- Aer Arran will surely jump on this, as its what they do best with GWY/WAT.

I think you will see Flybe before Aer Arann.

In terms of passenger numbers, how many will be lost as a result?

[wanna_be_there]

I think you will see Flybe before Aer Arann


Im not sure. Whilst I know they havent all been sucessful, Aer Arran have always seemed to have a go at regional irish airports to MAN.
They have GWY and WAT at the moment, and they also had a go at Sligo (maybe Kerry as well, or am I imagining that?).
They also had an intention to serve LDY, even though it didnt get of the ground, I think its shows Aer Arran are deffinatly ones to have a go.

Also, with the PSO routes ending, they have the spare frames, even if its the ATR42

[JC25]

An extra BE Q400 or E175 at MAN would allow for a daily NOC and NQY with couple of two or three weekly French routes thrown in there too, but who knows what will happen!

[NorthernCounties]

If Flybe took over the route, I think we'd actually see a gain in passenger numbers J2k9.

[Jamie2k9]

The Galway based aircraft operate MAN - KIR. For them to operate the service they would have to base aircraft at Knock as WAT a/c couldn't operate the service. (on busy days like Mon, Thur, Fri, Sun) There is realy no other UK routes to serve from Knock to sustain a based aircraft. Is there a chance that Jet2 would look at it with the B733. I don't know what the loads are like with baby.

[wanna_be_there]

wonder if MAN already has a replacement for the routes?:


We understand bmibaby’s reasons for the decision and remind our passengers that the destinations will still be served by other carriers in the winter


Taken from:

News / bmibaby to pull out of Manchester THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/154915-bmibaby-to-pull-out-of-manchester.html)?

(Subscription (free) needed)

[All names taken]

Not really surprised by this news but saddened for the people that will lose their jobs (and at Cardiff too).
By co-incidence I was looking to book a MAN - BHD flight only this morning and for the first time in a while, FlyBe were cheaper. Better than that, because they have far more flights, I don't have to get up so early. Come the Winter though I will be flying into BFS with Easyjet as BFS is handier for me at the other end. Basically Baby just handed over their BFS - MAN business to EZY :hmm:

The irony of the timing of today's announcement is that it co-incides with the re-start of RYR flights to MAN, it's as if WW were saying 'we just can't compete'.

The whole BMI group is (if it isn't already) seriously running the risk of becoming a laughing stock. Their strategy seems to be not to have a strategy, meaning as a regular flyer, I wouldn't trust them being around much longer sadly....also meaning I won't be booking any of their flights.

Their press release even has to stretch the truth about mainline ops at MAN, saying they've started flights to FRA (they haven't, just lent a plane and crew to LH) and they started flying to BSL - this is for Swiss.

[roy2711]

Their press release even has to stretch the truth about mainline ops at MAN, saying they've started flights to FRA (they haven't, just lent a plane and crew to LH) and they started flying to BSL - this is for Swiss.

Not strictly true, the BSL flights are operated by bmi for bmi in co-op with Swiss! The FRA flts are operated by bmi for LH

[Hamburg 2K8]

On another note, I've found some approach charts for MAN & LPL and ground charts too I downloaded last year (I think) but I need some more too, are these available on the CAA website? I'm sure it's from there I got them?

[AirLCY]

Any chance Air Southwest / Eastern will pick up the MANNQY route?

[airhumberside]

With regards to replacing Knock, what about Aer Lingus. Could route either LGW-NOC-MAN and return or DUB-MAN-NOC and return

Or if Aer Arann took over the route, it could always be as Aer Lingus Regional. Might need an extra aircraft in the franchise deal or something else would have to be cut elsewhere

Another option not mentioned - Ryanair. Would need a w pattern but they are very defensive of their position in Ireland and the idea of a stronger replacement than baby on MAN-NOC might not go down too well. So a pre-emptive move to start the route could always be possible

[tictack67]

Totally agree, very sad day for staff at Man and Cwl.

Though really this pulling of bases is nothing new, Ryanair have done this regularly, sometimes even before bases are open and staff recruited for same. Ryanair staff are punted (if they are lucky) from one base to another accross Europe, so no point in demonising Baby

This is the future of avaiton, and it would be unwise to "trust" in any airline, as really they could all pull out in short notice.

[Shrimps]

On another note, I've found some approach charts for MAN & LPL and ground charts too I downloaded last year (I think) but I need some more too, are these available on the CAA website? I'm sure it's from there I got them?

NATS AIS (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=99&Itemid=148.html)

[learjet50]

Re your posts re the Man-Noc Flight.

I am sure if there is any money to be made on this route FlyBe would or maybe now will start.

They have everthing already set up at Man.

Lots of A/C Lots of Crew

I am sure with a little adjustment they could squuze a Q400 to Noc and Back.

We await developments
:cool:

[LBIA]

Air Southwest have confirmed that they are to drop there twice daily Manchester-Bristol service next month.

The airline will continue to operate a once daily Manchester-Newquay-Plymouth service though.

[johnnychips]

One of those routes that are probably equally convenient by train: possibly a bit cheaper by plane depending on when you book and what time you travel; about the same in time (considering Lulsgate's location); but loses out on frequency.

[iwak]

Have flybe got dash and embraer based at man as I personally would like to see an embraer on the man noc route if flybe were to take the route. I think a dash would be too much of a downgrade from baby's 737s.

[JC25]

There is one E195 based at MAN (at the moment) but it is fully utilised on weekdays operating MAN-CDG-MAN-MXP-MAN-CDG-MAN. Of course that doesn't mean that come October there wont be a change to the current set up.

[easyflyer83]

More of a downgrade that complete withdrawal?

[learjet50]

Surely a downgrade is better than a complete loss of the route.

If Aer Arran/Aer Lingus did start surely they would only be a ATR on the route

I wonder if FlyBe have there eyes on Nqy as ASW now only 1 perday

and it would also tie in with the Based A/C at Nqy (If its got time to do
Nqy/Man/Nqy

if not v/v with a Manchester a/c

we will wait and see


Regards

[Suzeman]

One of those routes that are probably equally convenient by train: possibly a bit cheaper by plane depending on when you book and what time you travel; about the same in time (considering Lulsgate's location); but loses out on frequency.

MAN - BRS direct trains are hourly throughout the day. In addition you can get the other X Country service from MAN to BHM New St and change there - an exciting experience! - so effectively a half hour service.The Voyager trains are often full, aren't the most comfortable and often late. But no airport style security etc

Walk up train fares are £138 return, (33% cheaper with a discount railcard) or even cheaper if booked in advance depending on timings. Checked some air fares for last week of April and they are slightly higher than the walk up train fare

I have to say I'm surprised it lasted this long after the regular direct BRS-MAN trains were reinstated some 18 months ago.

Suzeman

[Suzeman]

More news from MAN

Reading some of the comments on this story on the MEN website could give you a laugh if you need one....:ooh:

Manchester Airport in drive to fine motorists who refuse to use drop-off zones | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1418108_manchester-airport-in-drive-to-fine-motorists-who-refuse-to-use-drop-off-zones)

Suzeman

[MAN777]

Be completely anti social like me and do what I have have done for years, carefully park in the residential area of Heald Green and get the train in. Two weeks parking for 80 pence, totally legal bargain !!. Works at Hounslow to ;)

Not very happy about Greater Manchester Police being used to enforce what is a money making exercise for MAG, genuine congestion and obstruction yes, but just enforcing bye laws because they can - NO.

[TSR2]

Not very happy about Greater Manchester Police being used to enforce what is a money making exercise for MAG

Surely the Airport Police are paid for by MAG.

[EastMids]

It must be a MAG thing - they're doing it at East Midlands too (although there its on private roads and enforced by the parking company and the fine is £100).

Fundamental problem with airports is that airlines demand lower and lower usage fees because passengers want lower and lower fares. So airports have to find other ways of making up their revenue, and thus try to force people into paid car parks

Andy

[MAN777]

Yes MAG do pay GMP to Police the airport, but in my eyes there is a very distinct line to be drawn between providing a "normal" Police role and revenue collection for a commercial operation, that is not what the Police are for.

[TSR2]

but in my eyes there is a very distinct line to be drawn between providing a "normal" Police role and revenue collection for a commercial operation, that is not what the Police are for.

Agree with you on that. It may be some branch of the Highways Agency that will enforce it.

[PQC]

Think that you will find that the HA's scope only extends to motorways and trunk roads and not MA's internal road network.

I think that any enforcement of restrictions on MA's own road network will be down to either GMP or a private sector company, both working on behalf of MA

[GavinC]

£2m bid to turn around Manchester Airport's terminal decline | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1418409_2m-bid-to-turn-around-manchester-airports-terminal-decline)

[TSR2]

What a misleading headline.

[Suzeman]

More on the pick up and drop off saga .....

Plane unfair: Furious cabbies could launch legal fight against Manchester Airport parking plan | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1418979_plane-unfair-furious-cabbies-could-launch-legal-fight-against-manchester-airport-parking-plan)

Suzeman

[PQC]

Has anyone noticed over the last 2 - 3 years the increasing propensitiy for operations from 05L/05R around this time of year? It just seems to be that in 09, 10 and 11, the weather patterns have appeared to dictate a greater than normal percentage of ops from what is generally regarded as the non-standard direction.

Question is that is this result of changing weather patterns or just a coincidence? Also, what impact does this have on the management of the airspace, airfield operations etc etc etc.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of those more qualified and experienced in these matters than this mere mortal....

[johnnychips]

Not doubting you, but is this subjective or have you an info source?

[One Sixty until 4.]

I had been thinking exactly the same thing recently. Increasingly over the last couple of years, Easterly winds have been the norm for longer periods of time in all seasons. It's made it drier but colder.

I'd be interested to see an informed meteorological-based answer.

It certainly makes for a quieter environment for those of us at the 23 end, except when the 380 departs!

[easyflyer83]

Ditto, I live in Newton, Hyde and it's actually quite deathly sometimes when you stop and listen. Then again maybe I should be glad at not being reminded of work every few minutes.

[nilcostoptionmyass]

"An airport spokeswoman said the step would improve traffic flow, reduce congestion and boost security."

Ha ha ha, what a load of money grabbing ****

One of the most third world airports in Europe, see they won another award !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they ****** up the road system a few years ago, what a mess,

They want to extract your money from your pocket.......

[mickyman]

nilcostoptionmyass (http://www.pprune.org/members/161593-nilcostoptionmyass)

Is that the time....................

MM

[mytravela330]

There isnt much been said on here lately, have most people given up on this site now??

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

mytravela330 -

I suspect that the dearth of activity on the thread is due to a lack of news items arising. We haven't given up on it! The main 'route announcement season' is behind us; few businesses were issuing press releases of any kind during the short working week running into the royal wedding; no significant events affecting MAN were reported; and, the April stats are not yet available. And with regard to the stats (when they do appear), comparison with the volcano-blighted April 2010 will make it difficult to identify underlying trends and draw meaningful conclusions anyway.

Just a quiet news period, really. Hopefully, the Manchester United v Schalke 04 CL semi-final (tomorrow) and the crucial weekend Manchester United v Chelsea premiership fixture will brighten up life at the airport shortly (airlifts expected for both). Otherwise, enjoy the sunshine until the real summer traffic levels kick in.

[MANFlyer]

Came in on LX390 from ZRH at just after 8am yesterday and was greeted with an unbelieveable immigration queue that was already most of the way down the corridor on the C pier when we arrived and I saw it go back up past the gates on C. It was mayhem and there were a lot of very unhappy folk in that queue I can tell you.

We were ok with IRIS/chipped Passports but even then we had to fight to get down the corridor to get the chance to get to them.

I haven't come in on LX390 for a few months so was this a freak or is this usual ?. Either way it is totally unacceptable and needs sorting, sharpish. I saw an EK A330 on B pier (which I presume is a new service ?) but surely that alone didn't cause all that.

[Betablockeruk]

I arrived on Saturdays VS76 and the T2 immigration was a breeze. Think they had 4, possibly 5 (didn't sleep on flight :zzz:), desks open. Needs a redistribution of resource?

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

2 big TCXs from Cancun, the EK from Dubai, the LX from Zurich and the LH from Frankfurt all landed in the space of half an hour. It was over 1000 passengers, and some flights were slightly late (including yours) which probably led to UKBA being a little overwhelmed - although all flights arrived within 20 mins of STAs.
Higher proportions of non-EU pax ahead of you will always mean it takes longer to be processed.

Just unlucky, I'd say.

[easyflyer83]

Absolutely. Lets put it into perspective.

[Seljuk22]

Nice growth (due to Eyjafjallajokull)
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/6B38AEC35FD5AB04802578870058D8A4/$File/April+11.pdf

[BHX5DME]

April 2009 - 1,473,274

April 2011 - 1,440,730

down 2.2%

[Mr.Bloggs]

About 0930 this morning, the queues were enormous, and the annoyance of passengers was highly vocal. The place just does not have capacity to handle the volume of incoming pax to immigration. The baggage hall was no better. Heaving, a bit smelly, and an unpleasant atmosphere of stress and anger. What a pity our nice city is let down by this shabby 3rd world airport terminal. T2 is probably better, I imagine. T3 is poor tho.

[DomyDom]

BHX5DME,

April 2009 had Ryanair at full throttle before their big sulk and pull out from MAN. To pull back to 2% of passenger numbers without them isn't bad going. Now MAN have great middle east links (A380 services), shuttle links down to and connecting in heathrow/ gatwick, other hubs etc., 'new' terminal buildings, 2 runways, a good 'local' airline (Jet2.com), Flybe looking at further french development, significant EZY development and Ryanair back. I'm sure you will only be happy to congratulate MAN when further future expansion occurs!

Kind Regards,

DomyDom:)

[MAN777]

There were a few emails knocking around the Manchester enthusiasts forums today quoting Emirates load figures for yesterday.

Dont recall the exact figures but apparently there were only 20 seats empty in total for the 3 flights of the day (A330, A380, B777)

Surely that must be some sort of load record. ?

2nd A380 soon ??

[Ian Brooks]

And to cap that I believe EY and QR figures where very high as well
But what is impressive is EK have 2 flights with F class.
September is the date mentioned for A380 on EK19 and B773 3 class
for EK21

Ian B

[MANFlyer]

Absolutely. Lets put it into perspective.

:confused:

Perspective, what on earth are you talking about ?. I relayed a factual experience (generally lacking on here most of the time with the resident armchair airport CEO's in waiting) of what I encounted at MAN this week. Do you want to re-read the post, slowly this time, and point out the bit where you think there is a lack of prespective. I would love you to stand in front of those hundreds of pax stuck in that corridor after flying in from Cancun and elsewhere and tell them they need to put it in perspective. That would be worth watching....

Going to back to the subject at hand, in the hope of not offending any of the RDF members on here, a couple of days ago some of our engineers who had come back on DL from ATL last month said they had to queue for nearly an hour as well. Fortunately they have it all in perspective....

[easyflyer83]

MANflyer I have re-read your post. Yes, slowly. You give factual information, check. But then you go on to say it is totally unacceptable and needs sorting, sharpish. That is no longer factual, but your own opinion. Consequently, I replied by agreeing with AlphaRomeoWhisky by saying lets put it into perspective As a ARW mentioned, due to a couple of delays it meant that several large aircraft landed at once. In such situations you are always going to get a bottleneck. Do we have extra staff on duty just in case? In an ideal world yes but these days that just wouldn't happen. Armchair CEO I certainly am not, neither am I a MAN apologist but some people moan and groan about MAN, making out it is the worst hole in the world but have any of you ever been to JFK when several European widebodies land at the same time in the early afternoon? What about BKK where I recently waited almost an hour? Hence my post suggesting that we put it into perspective. If i went down the corridor asking those passengers to put it into perspective, of course most wouldn't agree but then they are the ones waiting.

What I will say to you MANflyer is that if you are going to be condescending asking me to re-read slowly and insinuating that I misjudged the context of your post then atleast re-read your post aswell. Your post wasn't just factual but also opinionated (nothing wrong with that) and that is what my reply was based upon.

[Betablockeruk]

Since OBLs death, surely immigration and security staff must have had reminders to work to strict protocol, irrespective whether passengers are a family of 4 from MCO or, well I won't single out anyone, but you get my drift.


btw if you want to experience immigration delays, try being at the back of the que at MCO when the VS LGW flight has beat our VS75.

[Mr A Tis]

I've experienced some pretty hefty immigration delays ( 1 hr + ) ...but these were at CDG, ATL, JFK & YVR.
So far this year my longest delay at MAN T1, T2 or T3 has been 10 minutes.
I don't deny I may have been lucky. However, any delays are down to HM Border Control & not MA. Maybe it's best to contact them for comment.

[Bagso]

Re EK...QR loads etc

On checking the Sunday travel pages you will find that 90% of long haul destinations ONLY mention LHR as the principal departure point....

to quote the small type... "regional connections to London are of course available".

By the end of summer Manchester will have connections to the Gulf every 120mins with fantastic connections to India, Asia The Far East and Australia etc.

Is there anything that can be done to address the "general perception" that if you want to depart UK on these specific holidays you have no option but to use LHR ?

[JSCL]

I've favoured QR out of MAN vs various LHR options but at the moment, LHR flights seem to be 'cheaper' due to the competition down there - so naturally many people people go for LHR vs MAN.

[mickyman]

Bagso

'Is there anything that can be done to address the "general perception" that if you want to depart UK on these specific holidays you have no option but to use LHR ?'

Yes - keep filling planes from Manchester !!

MM

[easyflyer83]

As a Kuoni customer, just on Saturday morning I had a "Sales" offers brochure and most departures were LHR. The ironic thing about that complaint is that the capacity (and usually the cheaper fares) are ex LHR. Consequently MAN must be filling it's aircraft with greater yield. It's not necassarilly a bad thing.

[MANFlyer]

That is no longer factual, but your own opinion.

:confused:

Are you seriously suggesting that passengers who are disembarking and having to walk away from immigration to get to the back of the queue that goes back past the gate from which they are disembarking the aircraft need 'perspective'. Do you do stand-up as well ?.

What about BKK you say. Well I've only been through there 30-40 times in the last 2-3 years (I'd actually just flown in from there on LX) so I'm not sure I should argue with any of your learned comments on the place. I am not saying you are lying or exaggerating to try and back up the stuff you posted earlier (and I am sure you are not in the RDF, as you say so) but I can say, as a FACT, that I have never had to wait anything like an hour to get through there (not even half of that, actually). But you also missed the fact that their own channels for Thai residents - you know, just like the queue I am talking about at MAN is for UK residents - is always fully manned and I have never seen queues of more than half a dozen people in them.

[JSCL]

@MANflyer I've been 45 mins at MAN immigration before, was coming back in on a QR flight and two TOM flights were also disembarking - the queue was around the corner and well outside of the zoned queuing system. It does happen, but I've typically gotten through in 10 minutesn many flights, depends on the peak.

[MANFlyer]

JSCL, I agree they are not always like that. But the queues have started getting worse recently, as I have wtinessed myself and have others telling me, and they need to sort it out. Telling people to get it in 'perspective' is ridiculous.

I have IRIS and two chipped passports so I can by-pass the queues, but it doesn't mean whats going on doesn't need to be sorted out before it become the norm rather than the exception. I have never seen a queue as big as last week in all the years I've been using the place.

[Skipness One Echo]

'Is there anything that can be done to address the "general perception" that if you want to depart UK on these specific holidays you have no option but to use LHR

I thought bmi were flying ERJs to LHR and QR, EK and EY were massively expanding? At some point you guys might realise that your own perception of the general perception is wrong. The Sunday papers are published from London but I think anyone going East knows the way to go is much simpler using MAN.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but you're doing rather well......The reason you have offers over LHR is that it's the only hub airport we have, nothing wrong with that if you're happy to go on price. The joy is that people now have the choice of paying a little more to fly direct. Horses for courses.

[easyflyer83]

keep digging
Spade at the ready.

Like I say, BKK took me almost an hour. Amongst the several widebodies that arrived around the same time was a Transaero and the incredibly rude Russians on that flight didn't help by trying to push in. In my opinion it was a bit of a free for all. There were indeed Thai channels which moved quicker but we all know that MAN (and othe UK regionals) have a higher percentage of outbound pax so perhaps this is the issue when several widebodies land at the same time.

(and I am sure you are not in the RDF, as you say so)

Excuse me? In the what? RAF? Where does it say that?

Now I know it's a pain in the :mad: having to wait in line....nobody likes it but from experience it's not a constant problem at MAN unlike some other airports. Sometimes we just have to wait in life.

My original point was more broadly aimed at the MAN bashers who indeed don't put things into perspective. Particular irritants are the "ohh EK won't stand for that" brigade. My last long haul trip was to BKK and just happened to be EK.......my experience was.

DXB Shambolic boarding of an A380 using just two gate agents with no clear organisation.

BKK Long wait at immigration

MAN Excellent check in, very organised boarding and immigration took 5 mins despite being at the back of a 77W.

On that trip, out of MAN, DXB, BKK, HKT and USM it was MAN that offered the best experience but despite the "snags" at the other airports (including a 40 minute wait at USM check in) I didn't think it let those airports down......I put it into perspective. It is just good to compare these things with the "palaces" that many MAN folk have wet dreams about. i.e they too aren't perfect.

Again, just my experience but people need to keep things balanced rather than always taking the "it's a disgrace" attitude.

[A330ETOPS]

I agree.

Flew on the 380 in Jan from Man. Excellent hassle free experience, as i generally find at Man.

Arriving at DXB was a complete ball-ache. I was waiting for over 2.5 hours to get through immigration. Very slow & huge queues.

[Bagso]

At some point you guys might realise that your own perception of the general perception is wrong. The Sunday papers are published from London but I think anyone going East knows the way to go is much simpler using MAN.

Usual pearls of wisdom Skippy.... :ok:

BUT if you honestly think that the populous of the UK look at a holiday offer and then factor in that they can remanufacture whats on offer to fly from Manchester which may be much less hassle , I suspect you are sadly mistaken !

Of course there are savvy customers who will always shop around but the British public are somewhat naive...i still remain unconvinced !

[Betablockeruk]

Just giving guy in office grief about travelling MAN-LHR-DEN, but he seems to have got quite a good deal pricewise and the layover in LHR is minimal. However, when I tried to teach him the error of his ways, I was encouraged to find that Amadeus.net was showing MAN to PHL or JFK as the best option, albeit with 6hr+ layovers at the stop.


Of course there are savvy customers who will always shop around but the British public are somewhat naive...i still remain unconvinced !

Advantage2011: Travel agent leaves Mary Queen of Shops speechless-09 May, 2011 (http://www.travelmole.com/stories/1147532.php)

Sort or related.

[MUFC_fan]

Just giving guy in office grief about travelling MAN-LHR-DEN, but he seems to have got quite a good deal pricewise and the layover in LHR is minimal. However, when I tried to teach him the error of his ways, I was encouraged to find that Amadeus.net was showing MAN to PHL or JFK as the best option, albeit with 6hr+ layovers at the stop.


To MAN passengers, what difference does MAN-LHR-DEN as opposed to via JFK/PHL make? Still a transit hub on route.

Plus if it's BA as opposed to BD/UA then the experience at LHR will most likely be better than any US transit airport.