MANCHESTER - 8

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

It's non-availability causes fat businessmen and overweight chavs (the airport's predominant clientele) to climb stairs, therefore losing body-mass.
Over 12 months these little weight losses all add up to reduced take-off weights.Turn off the moving walkways too. In fact, remove them completely.

Even better for the weight loss regime, let's make a suggestion that they are switched on, just in the opposite direction so even more effort and huffing and puffing required to make it to the gate/baggage hall;)!!

[wanna_be_there]

People having to use their legs, what is the world comming to???!!! May I suggest we all get over it, the whole travelator debate is boring, and has been for the last 2-3 years its been rumbling on!

Anyway, more about the Virgin lounge, its deffinatly a V-room:

VIRGIN Holidays are sharing the love and building a dedicated V-Room lounge for Manchester flyers. The first V-Room at Gatwick has proved a huge hit with Virgin Holidays customers with just £20 buying you a bit of peace and quiet, bacon sarnies, breakfast and unlimited tea, coffee and juices as well as kiddie play area and entertainment zone. Opening in July 2011, it will be located in Terminal 2 and will take up to 100 guests with areas for children and teens. See virginholidays.co.uk/vroom.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

People having to use their legs ...

Yes, we can make a joke of all this from the comfort of our homes. But bear in mind that some Manchester Airport customers are elderly, frail or partially disabled. The airport is not exclusively used by young, fit athletes. To be fit for purpose, the airport must cater for the needs of the whole community. Some customers travel with heavy luggage and/or young children. Others may be exhausted, disorientated and jetlagged following the longest journey of their life. Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators? As I suggested earlier, if cost is such a concern then fit motion sensors to the things. The technology has been around for long enough.

I can tell you from personal experience having arrived back at T2 in the early hours to find all the (blue-tube) travelators inactive ... the response from other customers is not positive. "Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!" Strangely enough, I didn't overhear any comments to the effect that MAN's management was wonderful for trying to save the planet.

This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better. I have in the past been accused by certain posters on here of being a Manchester "fanboy" for defending certain MAG decisions. Well, I will defend decisions which are worthy of defence, but I will also offer negative criticism when it is richly deserved.

This long-running escalator / travelator saga makes Manchester a laughing-stock, especially when linked with the sanctimonious claim that the decisions are driven by environmental concerns. MAG management: you are NOT amateurs (although this farce does rather give that impression). Get this sorted out. Fit motion sensors to your escalators and travelators ASAP. When nobody is using them they will be idle. German airports have routinely used this system for years ... its hardly a radical idea. If you don't put a blanket ban on accepting any diversions again this Winter, you might just raise enough extra revenue to pay for the installation costs (and have plenty of change to spare).

MAG managers: time to show us some positive management skills!

SHED.

[easyflyer83]

I think the travelstor "gate" scandal is way overblown.I've travelled extensively and rarely have I seen the travelators used to their full potential. IMO, and it is only my opinion, if you need travelators then you need special assistance.

The does anything "Fu****g work in this dump comments can only come from the "Chav" pax and that comes from a person who usually Hayes
the slating of the class of passenger we call the scally.

Again this comes down to the civic pride of a few who get their wet dreams from a moving walkway. Despite all that I actually agree that it's a shame the travelators are switched off but my views differ in that I would have ripped the bloody things out. They are rArely truly needed so what is the point?

Again it all comes down to the Alan Wicker wannabes who transit Changi once in their lives and expect MAN to be the same regardless of the context in which MAN operates.

[superspotter]

Easyflyer, may I suggest next time you post, you do it sober??
Please enlighten the great unwashed, in what CONTEXT does MAN operate that is different to Changi?? :confused:

[wanna_be_there]

But bear in mind that some Manchester Airport customers are elderly, frail or partially disabled.

Then if this is such an issue, either: Get special assistance, it is readily available. Dont forget, you are still stood up on the escalators, it doesnt actually save you from 'walking'.

Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators?

Id very much doubt travellers to the UK would base the lack of a working travelator a reason not to visit the country.

"Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!"

I have rarely heard anyone say that. Id doubt it was a business traveller either, more likely the big family bucket and spade fliers who have paid £150pp for their holiday anyway.

This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better.

Its a flippin travelator! So what, you have to walk a few extra feet when you arrive. After being sat down between 2-10 hours, surely it is a welcome break and gets your blood flowing again.

Put it this way, if someone came to visit here form say, Australia, had a good tour of the UK, saw sights they will never see again, saw family they will not see for a long time again, that the highlight of their holiday was the 'lack of travelators in the airport'?
You really are putting too much emphasis on this, IT DOESNT MATTER!!!

Even when the travelators are working, I see most people opting to walk around them anyway!

Please, the situation isnt going to change, and in reality its only a few who actually care about a working travelator, so can we please just move on!

[zfw]

"Maybe they should close half of all the check-in desks too and save on the wear and tear of the conveyor belts.........oh, they already do that"

What an absolute pile of c"*p as someone involved in the Airport Systems and Allocation i suggest you go and do what your title suggests and SPOT as you know bu**er all about how an airport runs.

[easyJet Jack]

My Goodness - I feel like I'm in nursery school again with all this bickering! Post after post of it!

You're all as bad as each other. If it's "just a travellator" then let it be! We're all entitled to our opinion on whether it has positive or negative affects on the airport and it's users.

Different personal circumstances ensue different opinions. For some it may just be a worthless piece of equipment - for others an extremely handy tool to help them get from A to B.

Have a bit of respect. I don't think that's unfair to ask.

eJJ

[rutankrd]

Escalators - MAG could be speaking with Ottis and Kone as they have energy saving systems to stop Travelators/Escalators when not used/occupied after a variable time.

The problem of these systems are in the reactions of organic life forms.

Psychologically when we approach such static machines and that are fitted next to a wider normal walkway, evidence suggests people at a subconscious level assume they are broken and they continue down the normal walkway rather than walking on the the Travelator.

Interestedly if a single person makes the decision to walk onto the Travelator and it starts up individuals directly behind also follow suit.

Frankly you might a well simply switch the things OFF at times of low use -Just a fact.

Or even rip the things right out ,make an even wider walk way and perhaps add a few well placed seats !

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi wanna be there / all

I must respectfully disagree with you on this occasion. Let's keep things in proportion: my earlier posting does not imply that the travelator / escalator issue is amongst the most important facing society today, of course not. Nor do I suggest that any rational person would judge an entire region based upon afew non-functional escalators (although this does significantly influence the first impression). But it is still a relevant issue - especially as part of a discussion on the topic of customer service at Manchester Airport. An issue which can be easily resolved with a straightforward solution (fitting motion sensors). And that solution offers the benefit of reducing energy costs as a bonus.

I take your point that this issue has become boring. But do you not recognize why it has become boring? It is because this issue has been left unresolved at Manchester Airport for YEARS, and therefore returns to haunt us on a regular basis. And it seems that MAG management is now intent on a course of action which will make the problem worse.

The 'PP' element of the PPRuNe title stands for "Professional Pilots". All working professional pilots must pass a regular class 1 medical examination. Likewise ATC staff, airport firefighters and many other regular contributors to this forum. It can be difficult for some of those who enjoy excellent health to empathize with the needs of others who do not; it is understandable. However, I cannot make excuses for those who put forward the playground bully approach: let the fat *******s walk - it'll do them good! They're probably chavs anyway etc. The "I'm alright, Jack!" approach. The airport's customers, even those you may consider beneath your social status, deserve a fit-for-purpose airport experience ... which, incidentally, they pay for as a component of their airfare.

I have in the past traveled with an elderly passenger. I have also accompanied a passenger who had a broken leg. Neither of these were people who apparently 'deserve' contempt from certain PPRuNe readers for eating too much or exercising too little in their prime. Real people have to deal with real problems, and the airport's passenger infrastructure is designed to offer solutions to those. Let's just make sure the equipment works. If the alternative in each case is to take up wanna be there's suggestion to "get special assistance, it is readily available", the ultimate cost to the airport will be much higher as a greater number of marginal customers realize that they cannot cope without special assistance after all. However, maybe providing individual assistance to all those less-able customers instead of letting pre-installed technology do the job could greatly assist in reducing Wythenshawe's unemployment problem!

We will all become elderly one day (at least that is my ardent hope for all my fellow readers of this forum!). We may even break a limb or two along the way. In my case, I intend to keep right on traveling regardless - for as long as I am able to do so. I hope that most of you will have the same positive attitude as you age, and in the meantime not condemn those who have already reached an advanced age, yet keep supporting our airport with their business anyway. Good for them, I say! For us on these boards to take the attitude: "let the lazy ******s walk a bit ... it'll do them good" is actually pretty shameful when you think about it.

Like it or not, elderly people, infirm people, jetlagged people, and yes - even people who eat too many pies, are our customers too. They deserve and pay for a level of service which Manchester Airport should be proud to offer. Old and fat people pay our wages too - their repeat-business must be encouraged if the airport is to thrive. We need to remember that at all times. There is no place for schadenfreude and sniggering. The airport absolutely *needs* to provide a travel experience which all customers - real people, not just athletes - will CHOOSE to book over and over again. Manchester Airport's customers deserve the best service which can reasonably be provided for the fee they pay, and that does include working escalators and travelators.

SHED.

[Turtle controller]

This must be the most tedious thread in the history of the internet.

[Mr A Tis]

Recently arrived from HKG via FRA after being on the go for almost 20 hours. Had to get from T1 arrivals to the rail station at 2300 with lots of luggage. The travelators were all switched off. If there were no travelators in the first place, I'd probably think OK. However, when you see the things designed to help you not working, it kind of makes it worse.
As for "help" I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. I passed through T3 last month with my 90 year old mother. We were basically dumped in T3 arrivals & the wheelchair whisked away because they were short, leaving my mother stranded & unable to get to the pick up area.
It's a pretty dull and uninteresting subject to many, but by & large I agree with Shed. What's wrong with sensors? All German airports have had them for decades.

[pwalhx]

Can someone open a Manchester Travelators thread for those so consumed by this subject and leave this forum for news about the airport.

[Suzeman]

More silverware for MAN

From the MEN today

Airport takes a starring role at industry Oscars - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1370517_airport_takes_a_starring_role_at_industry_oscars)

Suzeman

[superspotter]

Oh dear ZFW, a little touchy are we not??
Lighten up my friend and learn to tell the difference between a serious argument and a tongue in cheek comment :) Despite my moniker, I fly for a living so I do see as many if not far more airport terminals than you my friend and althougn MAN has always been my hometown and would defend it vigorously, MAN airport leaves a lot to be desired in oh so many areas where the airport meets the customer. In my opinion I should stress.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

pwalhx / all,

I am the first to acknowledge that the news that MAG has elected to switch off a number of its escalators and travelators in the name of environmentalism is not the most exciting news topic to emerge from Manchester Airport this year. But it IS news about the airport. And it IS important. Because if the airport experience becomes unpleasant, or worse - unmanageable - for travelers, they can choose an alternative airport or mode of travel for their future journeys.

If MAG's policies give customers reason to prefer the experience at a rival airport (or train / coach / ferry travel etc), the effects will eventually trickle down to employment prospects in various departments at MAN. Airline load factors and yields from Manchester rely fundamentally on MAG providing an airport experience which customers will be happy to book again and again on a regular basis. If the customer chooses an alternative for future journeys, those ex-MAN airseats risk remaining unsold.

Keeping the airport's standards high does require attention to detail. This can be tedious, but it is no less important for that. If the customers vote with their feet and book from airports which offer short walks to aircraft (as opposed to the larger MAN with its distance-mitigating infrastructure switched off), then we will soon be able to return to more juicy topics on the thread. Like speculating who will be the latest operator to reduce services from the place in response to declining customer demand.

Paying attention to getting the passenger experience right is a boring and tedious subject. But so much else depends on it. Aviation industry professionals do not shove these matters aside because they induce a yawn effect on certain casual readers. These issues must be highlighted and discussed in the open, or the airport will incur damage to its business as former customers seek alternatives which better serve their physical needs and capabilities.

So I'm sorry if readers would like to see 'Manchester News' restricted to new airline service announcements only. Because they ultimately rely on the airport providing an attractive environment which customers are keen and physically able to use for their travel needs. We often discuss this airport handling 17 million plus passengers per annum. In reality, a large proportion of those statistics represent a hardcore of individuals who each use the airport on multiple occasions over the space of a year. There is a high price to pay for hacking them off with mindless customer-unfriendly "environmental" initiatives dreamed up in a trendy beancounter's office. Airports operate in a competitive environment. Every customer is courted by nearby rival airports. The stakes are high. Manchester must offer an unbeatable passenger experience, because it is unlikely to win the battle for customer loyalty on price.

SHED.

ADDED: Excellent news posted by Suzeman at 18:58 there. Let's keep those standards UP. We need the airport's facilities to remain fully functional.

[TSR2]

I'm not sure that I totally agree with you.

As I see it, an airport is somewhere you depart from or arrive into as part of an overall itinerary. It matters not one jot if certain nice-to-have features are fully operational or not providing basic conditions are provided. What really matters are the airlines and destinations served from the airport and I cannot imagine any airline not wanting to offer services from the airport due to the lack of certain specific passenger facilities. Passengers are highly unlikely to desert Manchester for let's say Liverpool just because Liverpool Airport may have more modern facilities, but they would certainly consider deserting Manchester if Liverpool offered a better choice of destinations, business or leisure, no matter what the condition of either airport.

In other words, I believe passengers choose an airport for the choice of airline destinations, price and convenience NOT for the facilities provided.

Just my thoughts.

[Sillitop]

TSR2

But isn't this the reason that many on this thread advise that we don't travel via Heathrow, because the airport 'experience' isn't good' ??

Just my thoughts, or rather the thoughts of many on this thread

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

TSR2 -

I agree with all the factors you mention as playing a major role in determining a customer's choice of departure airport. However, probably the most common reason I hear for people avoiding a particular airport is: "The planes are parked so far away at XXX ... its just TOO FAR to walk! I always pick one of the small airports now ..."

So let's make sure that the less able passengers at MAN aren't OBLIGED to walk the whole distance. Although the OPTION to walk is a fine thing.

I agree with you that an airline is unlikely to withdraw purely because they as a company don't like the facilities (Ryanair being a possible exception!). But if a sufficient number of passengers avoid an airport because they find it difficult to negotiate, that will feed through to booking levels. That is when the airlines take notice.

Cheers, SHED.

[Hipennine]

Ok, as an occasional user of MAN (2 - 3 times pa), I have to say that I only use it if there is no other choice. From my user experience, it is consistently unpleasant, and there is always something not working to cause inconvenience. And, given that the area is well known for rainfall, you would think that they would find a more sophisticated solution to the leaking roofs than the plastic boxes on the floor !

From NE England, on several occasions I have elected to drive to LHR rather than use MAN. Even the T1/T3/T4 experience at LHR is better than MAN, and T5 despite its faults, leaves MAN far behind.

So if you think that the non-working travelators are unimportant to the Airport's future, think again, because here's one discretionary user who is rather influenced by such things.

[easyflyer83]

Hipennine I don't think any of the orevios posters have denied that so explicitely. Of course some people will be put off by relatively minor issues (anal if I were to add my opinion) but they are in the minority. Please don't under estimate how popular MAN is amongst the travelling public (anecdotal maybe) and the fact that the industry who plays a major part in supplying pax think so too.

I guess what really p***** me off on this thread is that while in an ideal world the travelators would work and ceiling can leak, MAN is always made out to be an utter disaster on it's knees when in fact it suffers the same snags as other airports right around the world. I know I've certainly witnessed them.

Another thing that irritates me that I have read several times in the past is the. "oh EK won't stand for that" when in actual fact they fly to some right dives across their network.

Discuss MAN's issues by all means but don't paint the place to be something that it's not.

[Skipness One Echo]

I'm a fit and (dare I say good looking British fellow) and even I with many years to go to my dotage am grateful for the travellators being on at the end of the day humping luggage around from God knows where, thinking only of my bed. Hence as a paying customer it annoys me greatly that MAG, in my view, knowingly mislead people about why the travelattors are off. It's simply untrue and takes the paying customer to be stupid, something that has not gone unnoticed.

As far as the elderly go, they are an obvious help. If your aunty or your gran was travelling, you wouldn't dare explain to her that she was humping her bags all that way to save the planet. Why not? Because such people have BS detectors....

Yes MAN has great connections but a working travellator is not much to ask. Re-read the whole argument submitting travellator for air bridge and see what you think.

[Tight Seat]

Well, if its the travelators that are getting peoples backs up, the airport as a whole can't be doing too much wrong.

Im based out of MAN. Yup its not perfect , but i have never been to a perfect one yet. At the very least MAN invest in the product.

[wanna_be_there]

I agree with you that an airline is unlikely to withdraw purely because they as a company don't like the facilities (Ryanair being a possible exception

Ryanair withdrew due to price, not facilities.

I think my main bone of contention is, that of all the people I have known travel through MAN, and there are many, not ONE complained about lack of working travelators.
It is kind of anal, put it this way, would you refuse to use a generic high street store if their escalator was switched off?

At MAN, there are always options:

Airside:

If you are genuinly unable to walk the distance, then there is help available, whatever you say

Landside:

Busses take you to the car parks, and there are pick up/drop off points right outside if you need to use them. Yes the walk from the station to T1/T2 is long, but, they have luggage trolleys to help with, so why are you all 'lugging' them around? Seems you are deliberatly making it difficult for yourselves???

An issue which can be easily resolved with a straightforward solution (fitting motion sensors). And that solution offers the benefit of reducing energy costs as a bonus.

You make it sound easier than it is! You have to completely re-wire the on/off switches, fit the motion sensors and then certify them. Its an expensive and awkward process if the escalator is not already fitted with such a device.

Can I just say this is getting tedious now. First we had all the hoo-haa of how disgusting it was that a plane arrived at gate on time, now MAN is a regional let down because passengers have to walk!
Whats going to be next on your list of MAN let downs? That there are no men wearing flat caps with whippets on leads representing the true essense of the north?!?!?
Its always the same thing with Britain. Quick to blast soemthing when its wrong but not enough priase when its right.
What about the fact we are winning awards, so someone seems to like MAN for all your tantrums. What about the fact we handled A380's on scheduled service with no prior testing. No, I presume you happily overlook things like that.

[Skipness One Echo]

It is kind of anal, put it this way, would you refuse to use a generic high street store if their escalator was switched off?

If I was managing a couple of kids?
If I was 60+ with bags?
If I had any health issue that makes walking that far with heavy bags a trial?
If I was stressed about security, again?

Now quickly quantify what proportion of the travelling public we're dismissing as anal.
Fixing this isn't rocket science. It's indicative of penny pinching. The capital investment of installation has been done. Is care and maintenance the issue
It certainly is at a lot of airports where no one cares once the ribbon has been cut sometimes.

Flying is one of the most stressful things some people do. Let's not ADD to it if it's avoidable.

Anyway moving on....did KLM ever follow Air France to T3?

[wanna_be_there]

Skipness:

-kids tend to mess about more on travelators anyway
-what about trolleys?
-were forgetting a travelator is still standing, means you have to quickly grab all your bags just before the end, and is not a seat, so, realistically, what are we saving here?
-security has naff all to do with escalators. I really dont understand your point here?

Anyway, it seems its another arguement thats spiralling into oblivion again. The fact is a few on here seem to have a major issue with such a small thing, but the fact is the majority of pax dont care. (as evident from the awards and the fact pax numbers rose again last month)
Im going to leave it be now, as Im bored and would rather focus on the real news of MAN, after all, its an airport, not a travelator show room!

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

wanna be there / All,

First, just a housekeeping point. In the first quote you lifted from my posting, you removed the exclamation mark from the comment which says: "Ryanair being a possible exception!" By removing this essential piece of punctuation, one alters the way people will read the sentence. In my original version, it is a 'tongue-in-cheek' remark - Ryanair routinely offer colourful reasons for their whackier decisions and most readers on here know that. But in removing the exclamation mark, you alter the structure of the sentence making it read as a serious comment. The way you used the quote - curiously removing a punctuation mark and a close bracket - suggests to me that you thought through the effect on the reader that this subtle alteration would have. Naughty, naughty! Now if we're all going to have a constructive discussion here, lets not resort to petty wordplays please.

Moving on, let me be crystal clear here. I actually find the MAN travel experience to be very good all things considered, and I am keen to see it stay that way. MAN is my airport of choice and is likely to remain so whilst I am fit and able. If you search back through my posting history, you will find that I have at times stood accused of being a "Manchester Fanboy" for contributing comments which are generally perceived as favourable to MAN. So, I am not "down" on the place as you imply. But I do wish to see high standards maintained, and when I see that jeopardized I will highlight the problem which (IMO) needs to be addressed. My criticism of MAN in this discussion is NOT generic; it relates to one very specific issue which MAG can easily rectify if they choose to do so. The pursuit of excellence in a business requires that regular customers identify and point out perceived shortfalls; that is what I am doing in this case. For the most part, I praise the changes MAG management have made in improving the airport experience, but when they slip up they must not be treated as if they are above criticism.

"What about the fact we are winning awards, so someone seems to like MAN for all your tantrums."

May I invite you to look back a couple of pages to Suzeman's posting in which he links to news of MAN's latest award. Now look at my posting just below. I believe the words I used were "Excellent news." So lets keep things in perspective here. Nobody is having a tantrum; we are engaged in a serious discussion regarding one specific area of MAN's operation which could be done better. Or should I say - could be completely eradicated as an issue with a comparatively modest investment in motion sensors. I'm not saying they're cheap - I take your point - but taking the 'big picture' view MAG can easily afford them and the payback is self-evident.

So wanna be there, I know from your past posts that you have always championed what is best for MAN. I put it to you that my posting history shows that I am also supportive of MAN. But it is wrong to support MAN as one might cheer on a football team; this is not about blind loyalty. MAN is an asset to the area and a great business, but its management (like any other) is capable of making poor decisions from time to time. And when they do, those who really care about the place will point out the shortcomings and ask management to address them. Contributor 'Tight Seat' puts it well in his 10:27 posting. "Well, if its the travelators that are getting peoples backs up, the airport as a whole can't be doing too much wrong." SPOT ON! The airport is NOT doing too much wrong ... all the more reason to identify and correct those few remaining mistakes!

MAN management must remain aware that, as a comparatively large airport with long walking distances involved for the customers, ease of passage through the facility has to be treated as a priority. Older and less able people are generally aware of their physical limitations, and they will actively avoid an airport which they have found exhausting or traumatic in the past. So MAG needs to ensure that these customers have no reason to look back on their airport experience with negativity. That means that the travelators, escalators and lifts must be seen to work. We all know that occasional malfunctions can occur - most reasonable people will make allowances for that. But switching them off en masse to save money is another matter entirely. That needs to be addressed.

Skipness has answered a number of your points eloquently, so I will not duplicate what he has written. What I do say to you is that most contributors on this thread have the best interests of Manchester Airport at heart, so don't take discussion of certain specific issues personally. This is a forum which is used for the exchange of opinions amongst other things; we will all disagree on certain points of view, but healthy debate in pursuit of the greater good is a worthwhile thing. Ultimately, I want Manchester Airport to be the best it can be. I suspect that you want the same outcome. So shortcomings must be identified, discussed and put right. Is that such an offensive thing?

Regards, SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Shed,

Ryanair being a possible exception! Ryanair being a possible exception.

Firstly the quote lift was a genuine mistake. I dont know how to use the 'qoute' feature on here, and missing off the end was a mistake, as you will notice I also missed off the end bracket. Also, how on earth can you read the quote wrongly? Either you are saying Ryanir pulled out due to the infrastructure or you werent?
Im not attempting to sway anybody, im just trying to make sense of why such a minor issue is being made out to be so huge?

Lastly, to sum up your last part of the post. All I am saying is that people seem to be making a huge issue over the lack of a travelator.
Im trying to put forward that there are ALWAYS alternatives, as MAG will have studied before making this decision.
Do you think they are sitting in Olympic house, looking down at the skylink seeing an elderly woman struggling due to the lack of a travelator, and laughing?

Now, I know many many who travel through MAN, and the travelators are the last things on their mind. Does anyone even consider MAN may have conducted a survey asking pax if it was a good idea to switch the escalators off for x period of the day? Just because nobody here was asked doesnt mean it didnt happen.

MAG is working hard to improve pax experience, and if the vast majority see the switching off of escalators see it as a bad idea, do you really think they would do it.

What you also have to consider is, MAN as an airport is under attack from many angles. You have the tax situation/competition (meaning it has to do more to attract pax), it has the green lobbists and then what the airlines want. Sometimes sacrifices have to be made, sometimes it will do something that annoys you, but you have to remember what happens behind the scenes.

This comment:

If MAG's policies give customers reason to prefer the experience at a rival airport (or train / coach / ferry travel etc), the effects will eventually trickle down to employment prospects in various departments at MAN. Airline load factors and yields from Manchester rely fundamentally on MAG providing an airport experience which customers will be happy to book again and again on a regular basis. If the customer chooses an alternative for future journeys, those ex-MAN airseats risk remaining unsold.

Got me. Now I know you state policies in general, but is being used in the travelator arguement. I would love to know how many pax MAN looses per year due to lack of a travelator. It just makes no sense. If the airport was a constant building site, or a huge maze, or had constant 4 hour queues for security, then Id be the first to question about whats going on, but its a TRAVELATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh:
We used to cope without them before, what is it that is stopping us from coping again, or is it the typical attitude that people want everything done for them, including walking?
I know quite a few business pax, and they could not care less about the airport in general, its just point A or point B for them. Most families I know arrive by car/taxi, so get picked up dropped off outside and I must add, 9 times out of 10 that I have arrived via the rail hub, the travelators have been working, so dont see what the issue is any way.

I think my main frustration though, is just some of the arguements that take place on here, drawing back to the whole Etihad issue. I just wonder whether pax sometimes expect too much, or whether it is MAN's fault for setting its standards too high.

Either way, I think the issue should be dropped. MAG have made their decision, pax will continue to use the airport and no amount of bickering on here is going to change that.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

wanna be there -

If you say that you did not deliberately alter the quote concerning Ryanair, then I will accept that. However, the omission of essential punctuation from a sentence does alter the way in which readers interpret what is written. Punctuation guides the reader through subtle nuances in the text; that is why we use it.

I accept your point that no customer rejects an airport simply because a travelator was unavailable. However, I never suggested this. The thought process is far more complicated than that. An older person may recall their previous journey through a particular airport as having been exhausting and stressful. Therefore, they consider alternatives which they believe will present an easier proposition next time. They do not have a ticklist of specific defects on their mind; their travel decisions are based on a summation of past experience - it is the overall impression which counts. An elderly person may not recall the precise reason why transiting XXX left them exhausted ("never again!"), they will simply remember that it did and adjust their future travel plans accordingly. Therefore, it is incumbent upon the airport managers to identify elements of their operation which inhibit ease of passage. And then they must ideally resolve those issues, and certainly not make them worse as part of a misguided economy drive. Remember also that if Mrs X says she finds using NNN Airport too difficult, it will be her entire party which accompanies her on the alternative journey next time.

I must confess to harbouring some doubt regarding your suggestion that MAG would have done careful research amongst its customers before deciding to switch off its escalators and travelators. I rather suspect that they did no such thing, but if they did I would be delighted to eat my words. By all means put forward any such research you are aware of; I'd be fascinated to know how these passengers responded. Even if the majority (and fit, healthy people will be in the majority) can get by easily without these facilities, certain customers cannot for various reasons. That may be due to age, disability, copious quantities of luggage, jetlag, fatigue, young kids in tow, or many other reasons. But I suspect that their response to any MAG researcher would be quite unequivocal. We'd like the escalators to work, please!

All the best. SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

Im not aware of MAG conducting market research, but Like I say, just because us on here wernt asked/took part, that doesnt mean it hasnt happened.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here, otherwise this could end up taking more and more pages of this thread, and its not why people log on to here.

Anyway, what do people think of Virgin Holidays building a V-room at T2? Lounge overkill in T2 or a welcome addition?
I for one think its great, as it shows VS is committed to MAN, especially in the face of the huge rise in APD (especially for carribean pax, and I know we only have BGI on VS, but all the same)

Would also love to know what Etihad have got planned for MAN after their lounge is built. Thier press release specifically said the lounge is for pearl and diamond class (F/J), and as they dont offer F at MAN, are they planning to bring it here?

[A330ETOPS]

Take the travelators out! Then no more moaning passengers! (Im not being serious before i get shouted at) I find it quicker walking past them anyhow. Especially when people just stand on them and block them up!

Saying that, i always 'power walk' when im off the aircraft to get through customs quicker :ok:

[pwalhx]

Shed,

My intention was not to minimise the issue, maybe I should have clarified my comments by saying that the whole debate over the travelator has overshadowed all other news.

As a seasoned traveller I do agree with a previous poster who says that we do tend to dwell or the shortcomings of Manchester, however I do wonder how many other airports some people have visited as there are complaints about many I could list. This comment is not made to anyone in particular and is a generalisation.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

pwalhx -

I agree with you; I have visited several hundred airports spanning five continents and I rate MAN amongst the top 10% of those I have experienced. Hopefully my earlier postings, and my posting history, will leave readers in no doubt that I am broadly supportive of MAN. However, specific issues arise at every airport location and MAN is no exception. IMO, it is tough to stay at the top table; there is no room for complacency. So I believe that it is important to identify and openly discuss issues which may leave customers with a negative impression the place. It is far easier for a business to retain an existing satisfied customer than recruit a new one. So lets not antagonize a significant minority of our customer base with a completely avoidable own-goal. Especially one with an obvious technological solution available at relatively modest cost.

We could compile a (very) long list of things which MAN does well, but is there an appetite for that on here? Of course, the alternative is to give the impression of dwelling on negative issues. I think it is important to give credit for things which are done well. I do try to do that. But conversely, shortcomings should be tackled head on and not brushed under the carpet to give the impression that everything is perfect. Where there is room for improvement - especially "low hanging fruit" such as getting the escalators right - it is worth pursuing.

I agree also that this discussion has overshadowed all other news. But then again, there hasn't been much of that lately. Perhaps we should be careful what we wish for!

Thanks for your feedback. SHED.

[Bank Street]

Can anyone confirm (or dispel) the rumours that EVA Air Cargo is to start Manchester-Frankfurt-Taipei from next Spring?

[chiglet]

"If" MAN should be castigated, then is should be for the appaling condition of the lifts in the Tower Block. Months to fix them, sort of:(

Travellators:- Switched off at 2100.
Delayed Long Haul arrives at 2030...Clears Customs/Immigration :ok: and has to get to the "Station" or Hotel...with a "stack" of baggage and a Wheelchair "may" be provided...at a cost

Look at Dun Laughaire... Escalators work both ways... on sensors,,,,
it ain't Rocket Science.

Worked there since 1969. Gordon Sweetapple and Gill Thompson were the making of Manch,
Immho, it's gone downhill since

[wanna_be_there]

Can anyone confirm (or dispel) the rumours that EVA Air Cargo is to start Manchester-Frankfurt-Taipei from next Spring?

More than likely true, as for cargo ops, Eva air want to add capacity to the UK, and MAN is the only place they are allowed to do this (Cargo rights between TPE-MAN have gone up from 3 -> 10 weekly, whereas LHR (their current cargo port) stays at 3 weekly.

China Airlines cargo should up frequency too, as they have maxed out their current 3 weekly rights and have wanted to expand to 6 weekly for a couple of years now

[airhumberside]

Tunisair will start Enfidha and Tunis flights in April according to a report on the Travel Trade Gazette website

[wanna_be_there]

another airline and 1 new destination, good news for MAN!

[Ringwayman]

If it's a scheduled service, Tunis is new. The old charters in the 1980s that Tunisair had I'm pretty sure were to there (TU8794/TU8801).

Still getting favourable comments out of EK on the A380s ops so far. Just wonder how long they will resist the temptation of going 3 class on EK19 and add a 2 class early morning service.

[TSR2]

Still getting favourable comments out of EK on the A380s ops so far

Thats good news.

[pwalhx]

Well I went on the EK A380 out and back to Manchester last week and I have to say it as fantastic.

[steve platt]

TunisAir bk at man next year!

Also the 2nd daily A380 service by EK may be starting sooner than anyone thought:)

[rkenyon]

So, this V-Lounge...

You pay £20 to get soft drinks, and no booze.

No thanks :)

[J31 MAN]

Anyone know the nature of the Thomson 767 with a PAN call that shut the runway briefly today?

[wanna_be_there]

rkenyon,

The V-room is more a family area than 'business lounge' per se, so Id assume alcohol is lower on the priority scale for Virgin Holidays.

Also, Id guess family holidays would run better without alcohol, especially when flights have to get diverted due to drunken fights (VS75 MCO-MAN diverted to Gander) and more recently a TOM flight diverted to Bermuda.

[Janu]

Hello gents, I was wondering if any one might be able to help me with a query I have from a few recent flights to MAN with EK. I've flown into EGCC with Emirates 3 times in the last two months and on all occasions the pilots haven't been willing to allow cockpit visits in Manchester, but yet it's always fine in Dubai. I was wondering whether there is a rule in the UK or whether it's just company policy.
I was on a BA shuttle flight last week and I was allowed in the flightdeck upon arrival into Manchester.
I hope that someone can help add some light to my confusion. Many thanks in advanced.

[opnot]

J31Man
In a nutshell , hydraulic problems which resulted in hot brakes on landing , fire service deployed hoses, resulted in lack of fire cover ,ops suspended until fire cover restored

[easyflyer83]

Janu I think you will find that the crew will probably just want to hurry up and get to the hotel....which is fair enough I suppose. No rules regarding flightdeck visits on the ground at MAN or anywhere in the UK.

[TSR2]

I am just wondering why on earth you would want to visit the flight deck on the ground every time you fly. It is not as though you are at 35,00 feet or whatever and get a fantastic view. Yes, I have visited the flight deck many times pre 9/11 but always whilst in flight and for the basic purpose of understanding navigation, oh except one occasion when I visited after landing to compliment the First Officer on an excellent first landing (or so the Captain announced after landing).

[TURIN]

Hello gents, I was wondering if any one might be able to help me with a query I have from a few recent flights to MAN with EK. I've flown into EGCC with Emirates 3 times in the last two months and on all occasions the pilots haven't been willing to allow cockpit visits in Manchester, but yet it's always fine in Dubai. I was wondering whether there is a rule in the UK or whether it's just company policy.
I was on a BA shuttle flight last week and I was allowed in the flightdeck upon arrival into Manchester.
I hope that someone can help add some light to my confusion. Many thanks in advanced.

Simples. The turnround time at MAN is very short. The crew need to get out of the flt deck to let the engineers in. Any inspections necessary may then need further action before the crew outbound can get on with their pre flight procedures.
It's tight when there are no snags, if anything unusual crops up the clock is ticking....
Of course, the rest of the crew also need to get out of the way to allow cleaners, caterers etc to get on and ready the a/c for the new crew.
Hope this helps. :ok:

[Janu]

Thanks guys!

[Janu]

EK241 is diverting in at 1722 en-route to Toronto. A380 probably wants some fuel.

[MAN777]

Any ideas why A380 should need to stop for fuel ?

[MUFC_fan]

Lucrative cargo? Maybe something heavy going back from the F1?

Could be anything!

[wanna_be_there]

Its probably because the flight is being operated by A6-EDL, which is not one of the longer range models

[Skipness One Echo]

Is there much range difference in the fleet? They're all A380-861s on paper. I know the seating varies though.

[champair79]

All -861's on paper but some of the fleet have proper crew rest areas. These tend to be used on the North America services.

The ones without these rest areas are most probably artificially weight restricted to save on the nevigation fees as they are unlikely to operate flights longer than about 8 hours and don't need the full weight envelope that the A380 can offer.

My bet is that one of the birds originally intended for the Toronto flight went tech hence the substitution and subsequent diversion.

Champ

[Turtle controller]

If they are using a plane with inadequate crew rest facilities then they will be stopping to change crews. Duh

[Bagso]

...which is exactly what they did - crew swap Manchester !

[TSR2]

During October EK carried 49,306 passengers to Dubai.

This figure was 11% higher than October 09 and 0.8% higher than September.

However, taking into consideration that September was a 30 day month, the average daily figures for October were actually 2.3% down on September.

[steve platt]

The EK div tonight Did NOT crew change. It was just a fuel stop.

[spannersatcx]

So it wasn't a diversion but a routine tech stop for fuel, happens all the time a lot depends on the forecast/actual winds.

[MAN777]

EK flight was a planned fuel stop as the aircraft used was a short range version, the ULR version that is normally used on the Toronto flight was not available, there was also a delay in the stop as the aircraft required de icing.

[Janu]

Manchester Airport claims world first with new eye-scanning technology


More info: Manchester Airport claims world first with new eye-scanning technology - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1371255_manchester_airport_claims_world_first_with_new_eyesc anning_technology)

[Cymmon]

I was Iris scanned on my arrival from Lanzarote on Monarch last thursday.

Passport in, then look at a circle. Interesting experience.

[HiflierEK]

Ha Ha Ha............and where did this crew come from ?? or does Emirates just have a spare crew waiting at all airports just incase ??

[steve platt]

As i said before the EK DID NOT crew change. It was a planned fuel stop.

[AircraftOperations]

"I was Iris scanned on my arrival from Lanzarote on Monarch last thursday.

Passport in, then look at a circle. Interesting experience."

If you had to put your passport in, then it was not an Iris scanning machine but a facial recognition, or E-passport machine.
The Iris scanners just scan your eyes and don't check your passport.

[rapidman47]

Ryanair is to cut Manchester Dublin flights and next year might pull them altogether
and put more flights on Liverpool Dublin

[Ian Brooks]

Have they had another spat with Manchester management? It looks as if Manchester
is far more interested in legacy/full cost and and Easy/Jet2 and Monarch to worry about worry about Ryanair and their tantrums and give me give me

Ian B

[pwalhx]

Interesting to hear about Ryanair, I was under the impression that Manchester was a high yielding route for them.

Guess then Aer Lingus will be happy as will attract them more passengers.

Last time I went MAN-DUB EI was a cheaper option anyway.

[dwlpl]

Ryanair will keep the Dublin route at three/four per day just to keep the slots if nothing else.

[wanna_be_there]

Rapidman

MAN-DUB is one of Ryanairs top 10 profitable routes, hence they wernt pulled when Ryanair had their tiff at MAN.

Is this pull out the same as the 'easyjet will leave MAN, mark my words' thing from months ago when they actually expanded services?

[Skipness One Echo]

MAN-DUB is one of Ryanairs top 10 profitable routes

Ryanair don't make that information public, also things can change massively over weeks in the business. Having seen some of the "low cost" prices on some routes, I'd be surprised if MAN-DUB was in the top ten. Having said that I doubt they'd drop it. Best analogy is Gatwick, and they're expanding there even though they are having to pay to fly from the airport and it's pretty congested much of the time.
Clearly Ryanair still want a piece of that pie.

[MUFC_fan]

Ryanair don't make that information public, also things can change massively over weeks in the business.


I've tried to find the link but to no avail. They did release their top ten routes a while ago and Manchester - Dublin was definitely in there.

As you say though, these routes will change all the time but look at all major airports/metropolis regions that Ryanair operates into - not one (apart from MAN!) has only one route. Cost wise it isn't worth just having one route...unless...it's one of your star performers.

Remember the route is only a few hundred miles long therefore costs won't be too high plus their benefits of economies of scale in DUB...

Just a thought but if anyone can find that link it would be interesting!

[Skipness One Echo]

Cost wise it isn't worth just having one route...unless...it's one of your star performers.


Oh come now. That's really not the case in the industry at all. Is Manchester now the only airport in the whole of Ryanair that is served as a spoke from a base? If so that's a shame. I know easyJet are happy to serve single route airports.

They did release their top ten routes a while ago and Manchester - Dublin was definitely in there.

Was it by volume or profitability?

[dwlpl]

MAN-DUB is one of Ryanairs top 10 profitable routes

If thats the case why have they dropped down to the published frequency of 17 per week from the current 30?.

[Betablockeruk]

pg 58 of the 2010 Annual report.

Manchester-Dublin was 4th.

No podium finish then :confused:

[dwlpl]

Was it by volume or profitability?


Manchester-Dublin was 4th


So its by volume and not profitability.

[wanna_be_there]

By volume, to be in the top 10 is still good considering how many routes RYR operate.

Either way, they will not be pulling out of MAN any time soon. Rapidman47 is just a wind up merchant who seems not to have any viable sources/links anyway.

Like I say, Im still waiting to mark his words on easyjet pulling out of MAN (who have since added 2 units to the MAN base), and these routes to the carribean, far east and South America that LPL is supposed to be getting :rolleyes:

[Skipness One Echo]

wanna_be_there said MAN-DUB is one of Ryanairs top 10 profitable routes

So to be clear, we can't say this at all. Volume means nothing to Ryanair if the aircraft can do the same work for more revenue elsewhere. I suspect that Ireland being on the verge of economic collapse might have more to do with it than anything at the MAN end.

[rapidman47]

wanabe I never said easy would pull Man I did say at the tims they wernt happy with it there is a diff .
and about ryanair pulling eat your words here is the link Ryanair to axe some Dublin routes next year - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1117/ryanair-business.html) the news item says a reduction but mol says a full pull out

[wanna_be_there]

skipness

I do apologise as I rember reading the report long ago, seeing MAN in a top 10 list and assuming it was the money making routes.

It seems RYR are cutting down the MAN route, but when EI offers such good fares and more frequencies, its not such a loss.

In other news, it seems a few different people at the airport are being told that:

EY are 'expanding operations' next year, but dont forget they are getting shiney new cargo aircraft soon so, it could be cargo expansion.

Jet airways arriving April 2011 (BOM tranfer figures are up on the DXB/FRA routes, so maybe they want a piece of the pie). Jet have already set up a ground station at MAN for diversions, maybe this is the next step?

Theres also a rumour that PHL could be going double daily for the summer 2011 season (seasonal upgrade?). The MAN-PHL route does very well, its an A333, has business contracts attached and loads usually hover around the 85-95% mark. Maybe this upgrade will use a B757 (if there are any spare)

They also say EL AL are comming may 2011, but personally I dont know about that one, as Im sure I read an article from the EL AL CEO stating that the Dynamics wernt quite right for a MAN route (jet2 however, have increased to 3 weekly long since that article, so maybe its causing EL AL to change their minds?)

ANyone heard anything more?

[mickyman]

rapidman

I note the important word 'might' in your attension seeking
blurb......my how they ran with it!!

Well done you!

MM

[mickyman]

wanna be there

No .....but I know where you got this info from - perhaps its time to
'tip your hat ?

MM

[wanna_be_there]

yep, the info is off another forum mickyman, but no harm asking here, as you never know, someone may know something?

[MUFC_fan]

Volume means nothing to Ryanair


Up until recently this was Ryanair's philosophy. It was their number one rule. Now as they slow on expansion and look towards revenue per passenger this will change.

Unless an order for 300 aircraft is placed in the near future which looks likely...

[wanna_be_there]

wanabe I never said easy would pull Man

Rapidman, post 1802 manchester 7 thread:

Easy pulling the plughttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif:D

Post 1562 on the same thread:

On another point If Manchester want to keep Easyjet they must lower their landing fees

Post 1814:

You will soon see I am right on both counts, so lets wait and see who is right shall we

Suffering from that memory loss are we?

[wanna_be_there]

Just for the record, Ryanair have only pulled 1 daily flight out of 4, hardly a full scale pull out is it :ugh::rolleyes:

[rapidman47]

Suffering from that memory loss are we?the old grey cells not what they used to be :O but there again it was not the news item but mol himself that said it would be a full pull out.
and on the easy jet topic I said they where not happy with Man dont you think their failure to put more planes there more or less proves this :E I REST MY CASE POINT PROVEN:rolleyes:

[dwlpl]

Just for the record, Ryanair have only pulled 1 daily flight out of 4, hardly a full scale pull out is it

13 per week is (just under) two per day.

[wanna_be_there]

My apologies, I didnt check properly, but it seems to be 2 daily every day, but 3 daily some days. For example:


12/6/11 shows FR553 FR555 FR557, so it seems to vary.

[dwlpl]

My apologies, I didnt check properly, but it seems to be 2 daily every day, but 3 daily some days.

As my post earlier (#827) said 17 per week (ie two per day with three every Monday, Friday and Sunday).

Currently its 30 per week, which is where the drop of 13 per week comes in.

[wanna_be_there]

I see now dwlpl, I think it was just a communication error, I thought you were saying there would be 13 services per week, not a reduction of 13 services.

The point being anyway, Ryanair are not pulling out of MAN as rapidman suggested, even if it is quite a large reduction.

Like has been said before, its down to the Irish tax, not an issue with MAN so not a lot we can do about it really.

With a large EI presence with competative fares, and still up to 3 daily RYR services, its hardly the end of the world.

[conti onepass]

Manchester should have told them to shove their dublin route when they axed the rest, if they want to GO just GO.... no big loss is it really. and all the people having a laugh at this....GROW UP

[dwlpl]

My take on FR/MAN is that FR are playing MAN a merry tune.

MAN will eventually dance to it and FR will go back but on (or very near to) FR's terms.

[wanna_be_there]

I doubt it, MAN doesnt need RYR at all.

All routes RYR would offer from MAN are already served (HHN/FRA, CRL/BRU, REU/BCN etc)

With the fares and frequencies EI offer, RYR are not needed and the fares of RYR at LPL would have to be 0 for pax to transfer across

[easyflyer83]

Rapidman you talk absolute rubbish mate. First of all, by MAN's 3rd birthday there will be 6 based aircraft. Granted this expansion has not been as quick as other bases in previous years but the reason for this can be explained very easily. First and foremost, the rate of aircraft deliveries has been slowing down. Secondly, and the first point compounds this, the Continental bases are currently more profitable than the UK bases other than LGW. This means that MAN has had to compete for aircraft as opposed to being given them blank cheque style. This is one of the reasons why EMA was closed, to feed MAN.

MAN, as a base, has pioneered the long distance network. On the day of the actual GB takeover Easy inherited MAN-TFS, MAN-HER and MAN-PFO smashing the previous "3 hour ethos". Not only have these flights become very lucrative they have also spearheaded an increase in "mid haul" flying right across the network. Furthermore, MAN earns alot of onboard revenue.......the most out of all the bases no less.

MAN has never been on the critical list, performance has always been good. It just hasn't seen the fast expansion that everyone anticipated and i've covered the reasons why. Even so, from a few of routes and 1 based aircraft to 22 routes and 6 aircraft by it's 3rd Birthday, MAN is successful and will be the only UK base other than LGW to see real expansion in the near/mid term future.

[wanna_be_there]

In terms of Easyjet, to Quote Carolyn McCall in a very recent financial times article:

We continue to invest in in our Manchester base with a mix of business and leisure routes.....

.....Capacity was reduced across the UK regions by 6.3% with only Manchester showing any significant growth.

I think this sums up the fact Easyjet wont be going anywhere anytime soon. As easyflyer has said, MAN has never been on a critical list, its just rapidman winding people up.

Maybe the sucess of easyjet at MAN is making him paraniod?

[rapidman47]

No I just like winding up all you Andy Cap people gives me a laugh in my old age. but there is truth in what i say take heed from an insider not all employed staff know everything:ok:

[wanna_be_there]

but there is truth in what i say take heed from an insider not all employed staff know everything

Seriously, rapidman, give it up.

If that post is in reference to easyjet (as thats been your main bone of contention for a while), The CEO HERSELF has stated investment will continue at MAN, check the ACTUAL quote below, and personally Id rather believe her than the rantings of some old man whos obviously got a MAN sized chip on his shoulder. :ugh:

Easyjet are doing well at MAN, they will continue to grow so get over it.

[brian_dromey]

Any news on Terminal moves, such as U2 to T2, KL to T3 and so on?

Are there any works going on at T3 right now? Last time I was there the route from Security to departure hall seemed very narrow and the BA gate is right in the middle. Is this permanent?

[easyflyer83]

The facts and figures speaks for themselves. Since when do airlines expand at a base only to close it. When MAN starts to lose aircraft then perhaps we can all indulge in your rain cloud of doom but if the base is doing so bad then introducing new aircraft, at however slow a rate, is like throwing good money after bad.

Quite often, staff find out at the same time as everyone else but they certainly don't leak it to the spotters first.

[easyflyer83]

Brian, no news yet. U2 moving out of T3 is a possibility but nothing concrete as yet. U2 aren't necassarilly unhappy with T3 but if KL made the move then I think they would switch. T3 can become very busy at times from check in to ramp space...particularly overnight.

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus/Aer Arann are to increase MAN - SNN again from end of March.

Flights will be 2 daily except 1 on Sat.

[The96er]

Any news on Terminal moves, such as U2 to T2, KL to T3 and so on?

No further moves at present are planned I believe. Logic would dictate that KLM would move over to T3 in time to be with their partner AirFrance. If no further expansion of T3 takes place, then Easyjet will certainly out grow the terminal by the 6th or 7th based aircraft. Question is, where else to go. T2, unless expanded would be unable to cope with U2 schedule during the peak summer months unless they fancy lots of remote stand boarding.

Are there any works going on at T3 right now? Last time I was there the route from Security to departure hall seemed very narrow and the BA gate is right in the middle. Is this permanent?

T3 is currently been remodeled in a similar, if not smaller fashion to what was done to T1, i.e, from security straight through duty free. The narrow route you mention looks likely to remain though which is a pain when an aircraft that uses an airbridge arrives at stand 41 meaning you have to cordon off the main throughfare until all passengers have disembarked.

[easyflyer83]

The speculation is that any Easyjet move to T2 will use the ground floor check in desks. Easyjet at 6 or 7 aircraft, IMO, would be able to use T2 in it's current form. Assuming KL move, next Summer in T2 there will be no KL or OK nightstoppers plus most Easyjet flights will have departed or be departing by the time most of the Transatlantics arrive. Any other U2 arrivals/departures will be few and far between until when Lunchtime/afternoon when there is likely to be 3 or 4 aircraft down at once or close to each other ay which point DL, VS, SQ, US etc have departed or ready to do so.

Anything above 7 will definitely require the said expansion but that goes for all three terminals.

As I say, Easyjet aren't unhappy with T3 and I even get the impression that they want to stay there but they are concerned with the space at the terminal and that is why it is still a possibility.

[TURIN]

Since when do airlines expand at a base only to close it.

BA anyone?

Anyway back to the rumours. Whats all this I hear about Flybe taking over ALL the Air France regional routes and eventually also taking ALL the KLM stuff too?

No AF or KL at MAN? Been around for a long time.

[Ian Brooks]

Going to have to get some bigger aircraft as KLM all B737 now and expanding to 6 a
day

Ian

[easyflyer83]

Turin I don't believe BA expanded MAN whilst plotting a pull out simultaneously were they? Thats the point I was getting at.

And the Af/KL/BE rumour? Do you mean taking over Regional, Brit Air and CityHopper?

[PhilW1981]

Given excess runway capacity and seemingly not enough terminal space for expansion one wonders whether any consideration has been given to a T4 on the eastern side of both runways where plenty of space exists if not, at present such good transport links. I'm sure I read something about this years ago when I lived in the area.

[MUFC_fan]

Would make for a fantastic low cost terminal.

I'm sure LS, U2 and WW would love to land, exit the runway and have no problems getting straight onto stand and then vice versa.

I did think it would fit perfectly where the Viewing Park is - but your idea is better!;)

[Skipness One Echo]

seemingly not enough terminal space for expansion one

Hang on, T2 stands empty for hours at a time. They're not sweating the assets they've got properly.

[easyflyer83]

I don't think MAN will, or even need to build a low cost terminal. The airport does well IMO, in keeping the low cost airlines it has happy with existing facilities.

[mytravela330]

there are 2 subways from T2 to the remote stands, they were put there when T2 was built so the airport could have a cheap buget terminal built in know time. Back in 2001 Easy jet came to Manchester and said they werent over happy at liverpool and wanted to put about 30 flights a day out of MAN, but they had just sponsered the terminal building at LPL. Although they put more routes out of LPL, they still have there sights on MAN for big expansion... I only know this because i was there at the meeting, so its just a matter of time, cos you cant put loads of flights out of an airport if you dont have the planes. What helped was buying GB Airways....

[Mouser]

Mytravel, I,ve never read such a aload of ****e in all my life.

[mytravela330]

well dont read it mouser, all i will say is, i was in that meeting and i know what was said.... were you there?? if not, becareful you dont call me a liar.....

[SWBKCB]

Isn't the Styal side of the airport all green belt? Agree with MUFC fan, area around the AVP (between A538 and the airport) would be better - easy to link to the A538 and on to the M56

[Mouser]

Mytravel, I had already read it, but don't worry I'll be careful.

[slapdash8]

Operations were suspended earlier this morning due to a fire on stand 49. The fire originated from a tug which had just positioned an aircraft on stand. Well done to the tug crew who, after noticing smoke, disconnected from the aircraft and moved the tug clear where it then burst into flames. The airport fire crew were there in seconds with the blaze under control. No one hurt, and probably quite a sight from the terminal building.

[TURIN]

Turin I don't believe BA expanded MAN whilst plotting a pull out simultaneously were they? Thats the point I was getting at.

My tongue was firmly in cheek. :ok:

And the Af/KL/BE rumour? Do you mean taking over Regional, Brit Air and CityHopper?

No, all I heard was that after AF moved to T3 FlyBe took over some of their daily flights as AF have reduced theirs. The ultimate aim is for Flybe to operate all the current AF routes into UK regional airports (under I assume a codeshare agreement). The logical conclusion would be that Flybe would eventually take over the same with regard to KLM.

It's just rumour and speculation from a bunch of airport workers but, who knows, there maybe some truth in it. Stranger things have happened.

[Suzeman]

And now for some thing completely different

Might provoke a bit of a debate?? :E

Suzeman

Campaign to promote airport backfires after blogger compares Manchester to Paris Hilton - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1371805_campaign_to_promote_airport_backfires_after_blogger_ compares_manchester_to_paris_hilton)

[TURIN]

That's a bit harsh..........on Paris Hilton. :E

[Suzeman]

there are 2 subways from T2 to the remote stands, they were put there when T2 was built so the airport could have a cheap buget terminal built in know time

Absolute Rubbish

There was an idea to put ONE subway from the T2 building to the grass area opposite between the two aprons when T2 was being built. This was to serve a satellite pier (rather like ATL) which would be built at a later stage. And as this was in the late 1980s when T2 was being planned, low cost airlines in Europe hadn't been invented. Constructing the tunnel as T2 was being built would mean that the apron would not have to be dug up later when the Satellite Pier was built.

As I remember the cost was over £10 million and it was eventually decided not to invest this money on a facility that wouldn't be used for several years at least, if at all. With hindsight, the right decision!

As far as Lo-cost Terminals (aka Gil's shoe box) are concerned, there were ideas to construct one in the area of Staff West Car Park :eek: or on the SE corner of the airfield around Moss Lane. There are 2 problems at this latter location - it is in green belt and would also be in the Public Safety Zone for the second runway. And the business case never stacked up

Given excess runway capacity and seemingly not enough terminal space for expansion

Didn't the existing Terminals once handle 22million instead of the 17 million today? Don't tell me that the refurbishment of all the terminals has lead to this massive reduction in capacity:E. I don't think so because when growth restarts they would have to build again. Not a very sound business case...

Suzeman

[mytravela330]

if i remember right, the birth of low cost airlines started in the late 70`s with Sir Freddie Lakers SkyTrain....

[Ian Brooks]

I suppose you could say that but it was long haul so a very different kettle of fish
The begining of lo-cost was Southwest Airlines in USA which started many years before it did over here

Ian B

[mytravela330]

But Freddie did offer cheap flights to some european destinations on his BAC1-11`s. Just a shame he ordered 10 A300`S and not 5. But then BA didnt help with their dirty tricks, as they say, of all the airlines that took on Freddie Laker, they have either gone bust or taken over by BA( crap air)

[wanna_be_there]

bmi baby to serve Berlin 5 times a week from March 27th 2011, evening flights

[Ian Brooks]

The 1-11`s did IT work not scheduled from memory
Remember having the pleasure of Manchester to Rhodes via Zagreb


Ian

[IB4138]

Correct, Mr Brooks.

I flew to Palma on one of Freddie's 1-11 300s on an IT around 1966/7.

It was well before Skytrain and before any wide bodies were acquired.

[OltonPete]

Hope it is more than just a slot request?

BHX had a BMI Baby flight, which even made it into the Tegal online
timetable with actual flight numbers.

However it never appeared on the baby website and never started.

easyjet did the same, BHX-SXF (along with MAD & MXP I believe) and
again they never started although Geneva did!

If it does happen I suspect some major timetable changes if it 14 aircraft
still for summer 2011.

Pete

[wanna_be_there]

well, its come from the german airports waiting list, and they are usually quite reliable (its where we first found out the SQ328 was going to route via MUC)

Also, Julian carr has said MAN will see city roite expansion, so maybe this is one of the new routes.

[airhumberside]

The waiting list is reliable in so far as it means bmi baby are considering the route. But that doesn't mean they will start it. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. bmi baby will be keeping their options open

[roverman]

I can cofirm Suzeman's response to a previous poster - the tunnels linking T2 to a future satellite were not constructed with the terminal and there are no current plans to build the satellite. As for capacity planning and spare capacity, MAN has the issue of being a 'Slot 1 -heavy' airport. Despite the decline from 22.5M to 17.5M pax, the overnight parking and early morning Slot 1 departures are still close to the 2006 peak levels, it is only after mid morning that the spare capacity really emerges. It has proved difficult to break this well-entrenched pattern of traffic, and so peak-hour capacity could very soon become an issue with any significant traffic growth. It's a conundrum for MAN, do you build more expensive capacity based upon Slot 1, or do you go all out to encourage more off-peak use, through charging mechanisms etc?.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

JET2 has announced plans to base an additional aircraft at MAN in 2011. The extra B737 will take Jet2's MAN-based fleet upto nine aircraft. The company is aiming for a 20% increase in passenger throughput at MAN next year over the one million customers it expects to have served in 2010. Frequency increases are planned on routes to VCE, PSA, NCE and PMI. New destinations are listed as LCA, PFO and Brive (France).

Jet2 anticipates the creation of 143 jobs at MAN comprised of 25 pilots, 73 cabin crew and 45 ground staff. The latter are required following a decision to bring check-in and customer service operations in house.

A bit of good news there! Full details reported at UK Airport News.

SHED.

[wanna_be_there]

You know what, for all the people that knock the age of LS aircraft, I think they have been brilliant for MAN.

We had that shakey period where they withdrew a lot of routes and a few aircraft, but they have since found their niche and are going from stregnth to stregnth, not just at MAN but the north in general.

The routes they offer are a good mix, without them MAN wouldnt have its link to BUD, FCO, TLV and Brieve to name a few. They are holding their own against the likes of Easyjet and bmi baby from the loco side, then TCX/TOM from their holiday side.

I hope in the future they look at MAD, VIE (they dont seem to be afraid of going after city routes) and possibly DME (after all, TLV is kind of out the box for them). I know DME is the wildest one out there, but, never say never, anything is possible!

[easyflyer83]

For the time being I don't see any LCC launching MAN-Moscow. It is, reportedly, on Easyjet's radar which could see it launched from MAN mid term...probably after trying the route from LGW.

[wanna_be_there]

It wouldnt be the first time that I have heard MAN-DME on Easyjets radar, but they seem reluctant to try it.
I believe rights are not an issue anymore (im sure MAN rights were given on the back of bmi being allowed access to Moscow from LHR).
Are the rights in place to operate from LGW? If not, then maybe Easy could try it from MAN with the rights in place, then try and apply for LGW if the market proves worthwhile?

Outside of this, AMM was rumoured, but how likely is it that MAN/LGW-AMM will actually see the light of day, and I wonder what easyjet will do about Lebannon asking for routes to MAN/STN/LTN? MAN has a route subsidy pot, and Lebannon apparantly will help out, so thats got to have taken a bit of the risk factor out, even if they do just try it out whilst the money is in place. They may be pleasantly surprised!

All of these out of the box ideas, just needs some guts to start them!

[Skipness One Echo]

All of these out of the box ideas, just needs some guts to start them!

Look not being funny mate but that's really not the case at all. It's not about bravery, guts and loyalty to one's local market. It's really, really not. Ask Bath Travel in Bournemouth. All the guts, awards bravery and loyalty in the world and they still lost. Voted "Best Airline In The World" you know, where are they now?

Thinking out of the box is a lazy cliche. Companies will launch a route where there is percieved or past demand, the correct equipment, proper capitalisation and the right cost base in place. Jet2 have been succesful on the back of good engineers looking after older paid for aircraft coupled with low costs and good marketing, but in the real world, one bad season of "out the box" thinking and you're dead.

There was a good local airline who had a great name on short haul, came and set up bases in England, launched high profile long haul from multiple bases and lost all credibility soon after. The box is there for a reason you know! I'm not against risk taking but pitching up in the on / off war zone that is Lebanon and asking for a subsidy is not the best ground on which to lay future foundations.

Remember one bad season and you're dead, regardless of the ten previous succesful ones. Excalibur, flyGlobespan and even Laker collapsed after years of success.

The airliners.net patented magic dart board of route planning is not adding anything here. Get off the oche!

[wanna_be_there]

There was a good local airline who had a great name on short haul, came and set up bases in England, launched high profile long haul from multiple bases and lost all credibility soon after

If you are referring to flyglobespan, the problem was not the routes it was on (apart from maybe Liverpool/Knock-New York), but the speed in which they expanded. They were adding routes quicker than they could add aircraft, and my example of routes bears no resembelence to the flyglobespan issue.

LS and easyjet are well in place to operate said routes from MAN. with a slight shuffle, they have the aircraft in place, the base set up behind it, and possible route subsidies to get off the ground.

Remember one bad season and you're dead, regardless of the ten previous succesful ones. Excalibur, flyGlobespan and even Laker collapsed after years of success.

Well, that could also be said for the situations outside the airline, not just the set up itself. There are too many ifs, but, maybes, not sures, it could happens in life. If we all took this attitude, nothing would ever get done!

The airliners.net patented magic dart board of route planning is not adding anything here. Get off the oche!

Its hardly a 'dartboard' of routes. LS already serve TLV from MAN, so are set up to operate mid haul routes, and with the route expanding, obviously have the know how of operating into the middle eastern countries.
Easyjet serve TLV so are also well placed to serve more middle eastern routes.

What you have to remember is, that a lot of euro routes are becomming saturated with competition and multiple frequencies, there will come a time when airlines like LS will have to look beyond the traditional bucket and spade routes, near city breaks.
Also, I know it sounds stupid, but having a holiday brand behind you could bebnefit. Tours around Jordan perhaps? After all, Thomson is starting MAN-eilat for holidays!

The only point I will give you is DME, Yes it is a bit of a wildcard, I aknowledge that, but maybe if someone brought a cheap ticket to DME, they would have another way to get to the middle east.

asking for a subsidy is not the best ground on which to lay future foundations

They wouldnt have to ask, its being offered. Also, I be a lot more routes than you think come about from subsidies. Look at Ryanair for example, once the deal ran out at MAN, they sped off into the sunset!
Also, Its not about handouts, but a small boost to get things off the ground whilst things get running.
I bet even your beloved BA has had its fair share of subsidies in its time!

[airhumberside]

Also, I know it sounds stupid, but having a holiday brand behind you could bebnefit. Tours around Jordan perhaps?
Before they collapsed Libra Holidays charterd MON for a weekly LGW-Aqaba flight, so possible. But still a big risk in trying to promote the place and make the general public realise what it can offer the 'mainstream' tourist

Jet 2 did it with Tel Aviv, but TLV had the advantage of VFR (Visting friends/relatives) traffic something that I imagine Jordan, Lebanon and most other places in the Middle East would lack from the UK

[wanna_be_there]

Jet 2 did it with Tel Aviv, but TLV had the advantage of VFR (Visting friends/relatives) traffic something that I imagine Jordan, Lebanon and most other places in the Middle East would lack from the UK

I dont know, there are a lot of arabians living in the north west, Buts short of asking where everybody is from, Its hard to tell where they are from.
Like I say, Thomson/first choice are going to start Eilat holidays from Manchester (and London):

Direct Eilat flights in the pipeline | The Jewish Chronicle (http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/37302/direct-eilat-flights-pipeline)

Jordan is proabably the easiest to exploit. Its a stable country, and sights such as petra could be seen on a tour.

Its really not as mad cap as people think.

[easyflyer83]

To be fair, AMM, DME are probably routes that Easyjet will, quite naturally, look at from time to time and eventually they will be launched IMO. However, I think we're perhaps 6 months to a year before they would be launched and I still believe LGW will be the proving ground as it quite often the case.

If I am to believe what I have been told by someone responsible for route planning, U2 will be sticking with trusty old PMI for it's one and only new route for next Summer out of MAN. The problem with Easyjet is that bases are competing for aircraft as deliveries slow down and I think for the next year or two MAN will see some of the more "mundane" destinations such as PMI, LIS etc which are all equally as important to airline and airport alike.

[Hull City AFC]

U2 will be sticking with trusty old PMI for it's one and only new route for next Summer out of MAN.

Has anyone got any idea when this route will be bookable???. Thanks :ok:

[wanna_be_there]

"mundane" destinations such as PMI, LIS etc

Any growth from Easyjet at MAN will be good. LIS is also less mundane. bmi baby seem to be a bit half hearted to LIS, with just a 2 weekly summer service. Being a city route, it needs to be at least 5 weekly to make it worth while.

Personally, routes I would like to see (and this is my opinion, not what they should do)

Madrid: Its an unserved route from MAN, according to the routeshop, its got a large number of pax potential. Currently, LPL has the route, and is doing well out of MAN pax too as there is no alternative at MAN. There are bases at both ends of the MAN-MAD route, so could be done with an a/c from either base.
Im sure if Easyjet split the route between LPL/MAN, not only will it retain its pax, as they will have the new alternative, but may attract more pax who choose not to use LPL.

Lisbon: As stated above, bmi baby on the route, but its hardly a valiant effort. Also, with a new base to be built at LIS, as Madrid, an a/c from either base could be used

Istanbul: I believe this was previously rumoured once before, and the whilst I appriciate a lot of TK pax are transferring, the route does well at MAN. TK could focus on its connections, whilst Easyjet could focus on the city breaks and O&D.

Tel Aviv: It seems to have done well for jet2 at MAN, its gone from 1 weekly to 3 weekly, so there could be scope for another carrier to offer say, a 3 weekly offering (maybe not daily, as I believe Friday is a very slow day for Isreali travellers).

Amman: Use easyjet holidays to promote tours, then fill the rest of the cabin with O&D traffic. Low frequency, say 2 weekly?

[Suzeman]

Plans announced for Runway 1 refurb starting straight after the Christmas break

Suzeman

Revamp to shut Manchester Airport runway at night for eight months - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1371954_revamp_to_shut_manchester_airport_runway_at_night_fo r_eight_months)

[Vuelo]

While it's really important for MAplc to concentrate on keeping incumbent airlines happy - they have alot to thank Easyjet for after all, they also need to be attracting other carriers.

MAD doesn't need EZY from MAN, it needs JK/IB/UX - the option needs to be there to connect into the hub. The same for LIS - MAplc needs to be wooing TAP back - maybe not daily, but certainly 4/weekly. There was no problem with profitability on the old NI route to LIS from MAN (which was 6/weekly), the problem was Air France and their interest in Portugalia at the time.

VIE - Lauda Air provided some great connections via VIE from MAN. Indeed, I remember using them to SYD back in 2002, for under £1000 return - BUSINESS CLASS! Those days won't be back, but OS are developing a good network from VIE which MAN could supplement nicely.

[wanna_be_there]

Well, with OS being in the LH group, and MAN being very favourable with LH, maybe OS could run VIE.
After all, there is a press release buried somewhere stating MAN could still get new routes from Lufthansa. With the major German hubs covered from MAN (barring SXF), where else is left for Lufthansa?
They have Milan MXP, VIE with OS, or possibly use bmi/bmiR/bmiBaby to expand routes?

In terms of MAD, it was widely hoped that the JV or even a BA hub at MAD would bear fruit for a MAN-MAD route, but alas nothing has come of that, as of yet.

Lisbon wise, TAP dont seem to be interested in MAN, so I guess it will be left to the Locos to fill the gap, no matter how much MAN could use the connections there...

[easyflyer83]

Vuelo, whilst connecting into a hub (which many slate BA for doing incidentally) is a good thing, TAP doing a 4 weekly service does practically sod all for connections and would become primarily O&D. If you are saying LIS needs TAP and MAD needs IB because you would rather see a legacy carrier then just say it. Theres no shame in it.

In the meantime if Easyjet were to offer MAD it's something that we couldn't turn our nose up at. The route would/should do perfectly well with just O&D and despite IB's Latin American strength, existing carriers can still serve those markets. Remember that IB's South American strengths are by far based on it's own O&D attributes.

As for EZY MAN-MAD. It would be great to see MAD back on MAN's departure boards. However simply splitting MAN/LPL-MAD wouldn't work unless there was some kind of frequency enhancement. i.e existing mid day/early aft from LPL supplemented by a morning and evening service from MAN. Otherwise an whole sale move of the route would be the best option.

[wanna_be_there]

In terms of easyjet running MAN-MAD, could they run 2 daily LPL and 2 daily MAN.

What about:

07:00 LPL dep (LPL based a/c), and 15:00 (LPL based a/c)
09:00 MAN dep (MAD based a/c) and 17:00 (MAN based a/c)

therfore, giving both cities a chance at the route, 4 seperate departure times so not to overlap too much.

Ive give MAN the later deps as the morning flight could utilise a MAD based fram, as seen as frames are an issue at MAN, and also LPL gets the bulk morning traffic whilst MAN gets the bulk evening traffic.

[dwlpl]

existing mid day/early aft from LPL supplemented by a morning and evening service from MAN

Liverpools EZY MAD route already has that evening rotation, twice per week, in its system.

[easyflyer83]

Northwest-MAD is a bit of an overkill.

[MUFC_fan]

Maybe ZB could get involved? During the summer BCN it is an A321 hotspot with Monarch and in the winter they still maintain a 2x weekly A321 and a weekly A320 service.

[Ringwayman]

ZB tried and failed with MAD once before - it was the era of 1 aircraft operating MAN-MAD-MAN-NAP-MAN. (or was it the other way round?)..

[mickyman]

Does anybody have any passenger numbers for the last
MAN-MAD service tried by Monarch ?
When I used it a few years ago the aircraft was not
well utilised - and I wasnt too shocked when it died.
Perhaps Manchester (fans) should realise that Easy at Liverpool
have got it covered! - or is it now a case of the 'heathrow
of the north?

MM

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

BMI Baby has confirmed plans to move all of its Belfast operations from Aldergrove (Belfast International) to Belfast City Airport, citing the latter's more convenient location. Hence, all MAN-Belfast services operated by FlyBe and BMI Baby will use City Airport (BHD).

[Skipness One Echo]

Hey guys, I was flying out of T3 at the weekend and got to wondering.

Didn't gates 41 / 42 / 43 / 44 all used to be even numbers like 42 / 44 / 46 48? The reason I ask is my first ever flight was on a BA ATP into the old domestic pier in 1991. Epic or what?

[MARK9263]

That was an aircraft!!!!!!!!!! Used them many times on business with Manx Airlines and BA Connect/BA etc..Noisy.
The left side of Pier A went Stand 41/43/47/49
The right side of Pier A was Stand 42/44/46/48..with 50 on the end.

[IB4138]

I have had the misfortune to use T3, inbound on the 21st and outbound yesterday.

Inbound, only one exit gate was operative to exit the customs area. The central exit doors from the terminal are now closed with a sign proclaiming something on the lines that they are closed for the winter to keep heat in the building and therefore save energy. They are in fact the direct and signed route to car hire and taxi rank. Only one lift operative in T3 car park and if you want to get to level 3 from level 1, you find that the escalator is barriered, out of use for a refurb, although no work appears to be being carried out.

Outbound, on returning the hire car, found the ramps gritted, but the car hire area , which is on the roof and open to the elements, had not been and was a skating rink. Our flight should have departed at 06.30. After checking in at 03.45, found security area closed with sign saying they opened sometime between 04.00 and 04.30, so a queue developed. Surely, if check-in is open, then it is common sense that security should be? My wife then encountered a member of security, who can best be described as having had a personality bypass, unhelpful, uncaring, scruffy jobsworth. My wife has one hand in a splint, but he required her to remove her boots for x-ray. No chair was available for her to sit on and no compassion, help or care was shown by this individual in her complying, despite me making him aware of her predicament. She complied but with difficulty and with pain, as he would not allow me to assist her in removing her boots.

On arriving in departures lounge, no retail units, including food/drink outlets were open, the centre bar being first to open, the others finally crawling into life from around 05.00. In WHS, two out of their three tills were faulty and would not accept credit/debit cards, with customers being asked to pay in cash. Finally had to board aircraft via stairs to tarmac, which were slippy and dangerous.

[paully]

Sounds about right for there and a mirror image of my experience last time I used it....dreadful......Thanks to Easyjet I can now fly from elsewhere

[wanna_be_there]

After checking in at 03.45, found security area closed with sign saying they opened sometime between 04.00 and 04.30, so a queue developed

This I do find unnacceptable, if there are flights checking in, the security area should be open.

My wife then encountered a member of security, who can best be described as having had a personality bypass, unhelpful, uncaring, scruffy jobsworth.

Whilst its not nice, please dont let the actions of 1 person marr your experience of the airport. Whilst some are horrible, grumpy and evidently lathing the fact they are there, there are some nice guys too.

In WHS, two out of their three tills were faulty and would not accept credit/debit cards, with customers being asked to pay in cash

With this, its a techinical fault within a private company. This could have happened on any high street or any airport. Not really MAN's fault

Finally had to board aircraft via stairs to tarmac, which were slippy and dangerous.

It is an airlines policy to board via stairs or jetways, not MAN. so please dont blast MAN for something that is not withing their perogative.

Sounds about right for there and a mirror image of my experience last time I used it....dreadful......Thanks to Easyjet I can now fly from elsewhere

Thanks to some reason, I know where you will fly from in the future. Liverpool MAY still be subject to these issues (and before I get an ear bashing, I am NOT saying they are commonplace at LPL, just that it could happen to anyone, anywhere).
May I also remind you paully, LPL still boards via outside stairs, just like some MAN services, so kind of negates that aspect of the arguement.

I will defend MAN where it is not to blame, but as you can see, I will also critisise too. Sorry about your experience, but T3 will be re-vamped soon so hopefully it wont happen again.

[IB4138]

Finally had to board aircraft via stairs to tarmac, which were slippy and dangerous.

It is an airlines policy to board via stairs or jetways, not MAN. so please dont blast MAN for something that is not withing their perogative.


I think you have missed the point.

The stairs I refer to are within the terminal and therefore are the airport's responsibility. You go down the stairs at the gate to the tarmac, then walk to the steps up to the aircraft.

The steps up to the aircraft were most adequately clear and gritted.

[perkin]

No chair was available for her to sit on

I pass through T3 every week and there are always chairs available at the security checks.

If removing her shoes was such and issue, why did your wife not request a pass through the body scanner...?

[paully]

Wanne Be

I couldnt care less if I board via steps or not and in fact I never mentioned this aspect at all. I find the Manchester Airport experience crap and my wife just loathes it. So anything else is an adventure worth embarking on :ugh:

[steve platt]

'NEW' Snowplan not worked! Several divs away tonight.
Good old MAN :(

[dwlpl]

The Liverpool Riviera Airport ;) is open, no snow at all apart from a millimetre or two Monday night so far this winter.

[easyflyer83]

Admittedly paully it does seem that whilst one or two of the grumbles I can understand, you do seem to have it in for MAN.

Obviously everyones experiences are often subjective and anecdotal......so is my negative experience of security at LGW and LBA plus some other (smaller) airports. Personally I always find MAN a breeze. T3 could do with updating but like T1 and T2 it does the job it is meant to do. As always though, improvements can always be made.

I'm with wanna_be_there....I will not be scared to admit or criticise short comings but turning it into a bashing/vendetta just loses credibility.

[Betablockeruk]

I'm sure they're doing their best and the snow seems quite localised.

However, the arrivals board is in a mess. Plenty of "scheduled" past sell by date. Been quick to add "diverted" (from other airfields) but there is no mention of anything diverting away. Poor show for waiting friends and family.

[wanna_be_there]

Pully, your obviously a man who likes smaller airports, straight in straight out with only 1-2 departures either side for the quiter experience, so no point trying to change your mind.

IB4138, I understand there were some issues, but the main point I was trying to make is dont blame MAN for the actions of private companies. For example, WHSmith is a large national chain, its not MAN's fault if the card machines dont work, it could have happened anywhere as WHSmith are on nearly every high street and most airports.
Also, even if the security woman was a b**ch, thats one person and its unfair to base your whole experience on that 1 person.

Ill agree that the wierd opening times of security were not on, but instead of ranting on here, why not write to the airport and explain what happened, as you might actually help in getting thinks changed for a better experience?!?

[Skipness One Echo]

That was an aircraft!!!!!!!!!! Used them many times on business with Manx Airlines and BA Connect/BA etc..Noisy.
The left side of Pier A went Stand 41/43/47/49
The right side of Pier A was Stand 42/44/46/48..with 50 on the end.

Thanks mate. That's what I thought, funny how the memory cheats!
I was lost at the weekend in my dad's slides of our 1991 trip with an entire fleet of BA BAC111s yet still the AA54 and the DL64. Plus ca change!

She complied but with difficulty and with pain, as he would not allow me to assist her in removing her boots.
If that's the case you most certainly should have challenged the fellow in polite yet robust terms. Helping your other half off with her shoes is none of his business if indeed this is what transpired.

In other news :
BBC News - Manchester Airport criticised over immigration security (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-11884966)

[Mr A Tis]

Having just been delayed over 24 hours in Frankfurt, where queues to rebook flights were in excess of three hours, where there were poor queue managment, limited help, poor facilities or information for stranded pax , escalators not working etc etc. Manchester was a palatial breeze to arrive back into. gate 25 to rail station 20 minutes.
They (FRA) had a fraction of the snow we have had in Manchester- but the airport ground to a halt for hours. ( ice & de-icing issues)
Manchester has a fraction of the resources some other places have and don't do a bad job.
The nature of air travel these days and the drive for low cost everything will mean that people will have good and bad experiences wherever they are, Manchester being no exception.

[paully]

``Pully, your obviously a man who likes smaller airports, straight in straight out with only 1-2 departures either side for the quiter experience, so no point trying to change your mind.``

Right in one Old Boy but doesnt everyone?????

[wanna_be_there]

``Pully, your obviously a man who likes smaller airports, straight in straight out with only 1-2 departures either side for the quiter experience, so no point trying to change your mind.``

Right in one Old Boy but doesnt everyone?????

Yes would be great, but one of the downsides of offering the level of flights/service MAN does, is that unfortunatly it will get busy.
You cant expect MAN to handle 3-4 times the amount of traffic LPL does, but then expect the queitness of LPL at the same time.
Aint gunna happen no matter how much you moan :=

[wanna_be_there]

They (FRA) had a fraction of the snow we have had in Manchester- but the airport ground to a halt for hours. ( ice & de-icing issues)
Manchester has a fraction of the resources some other places have and don't do a bad job.

To put in in perspective, at least we are not closed until 06:00 tomorrow, like LGW is!!!!

[easyflyer83]

Right in one Old Boy but doesnt everyone?????

No not really. I actually know quite a few people (mainly leisure orientated passengers it has to be said) who love MAN because of the buzz it has. It's ok us guys who fly on a very regular basis to have pre-conceptions of what people want in all aspects of the airport/airline experience but there are a whole swaithe of people out there who enjoy the buzz of a busy airport and they love the shopping mall style departure lounge. My partner for example despairs at me when we go on holiday because he wants to be at the airport early to enjoy the airport experience, the shops, the bar etc etc. Consequently he doesn't particularly like LPL but at the end of the day, if he needs to fly from somewhere to get to somewhere then he will.......because at the end of the day thats what an airport is there for.

Thats not to say that many don't like small, minimal fuss airports because they do however it's no good slating every little thing just because you prefer one type of facility to another.

[Owlery]

I've never come across anyone who likes being in an airport for more than the minimum time. Well, perhaps one or two people.
The quicker the experience the better IMO.

Back on topic, I used Terminal 3 yesterday morning and found it pretty efficient. Arrived by train at 07.30 and on the plane at 08.15. Excellent - and this is a regular occurrence as I do this every week.

[easyflyer83]

You will find plenty of passengers on the bucket and spade routes (mainly) who treat the airport as part of the holiday. The shops, the atmosphere is all part and parcel of that hence why people spend and support retail at the airport.

As you say you fly on a regular basis like myself so I appreciate your own point of view, I'm the same and thats why my partner as I said, despairs of me as he loves the airport.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Latest METAR says that Manchester is SNOCLO but can't find anything anywhere else. Can anybody confirm/deny?

[wanna_be_there]

still aircraft arriving, but LPL is snowclo by the looks of it. 2 easyjet and 1 ryanair holding

[dwlpl]

LPL is snowclo

After a bit of snow clearance its open again.

[jubilee]

Rumour from another site,source is usually good.
Second Emirates 380 to start at the end of March.
From a.net BKK not getting second daily 380,but continuing with 777.
Jubilee

[Suzeman]

I guess there was a brief SNOCLO for an inspection but was only a few minutes

Seems there is a lot of conflicting info on the status of the airport. Somebody already mentioned the state of the arrival boards last night.

This morning I heard that approach anticpated a SNOCLO which didn't happen and had stuff holding and diverting..... and I was told the other day that the airport twitter was telling people that the airport was closed by snow when it wasn't!

Perhaps MAN should use Sky News as their official outlet as they are always correct....:eek:

Suzeman

Intersting that when I write Tw*tter in the text it comes up as PPrune. Are they related?

[JackRalston]

MAN was SNOCLO at 10pm last night for approx. 50 mins so to clear the snow and put down anti-ice. Some aircraft diverted whilst the rest were in the hold.

As for today they have been on top of it for most of the day. It was SNOCLO was about 15 mins this afternoon but the snowbrush and ice vehicles are constantly working.

Hats off to MAN for a vastly improved plan this year round.

[Suzeman]

MAN was SNOCLO at 10pm last night for approx. 50 mins so to clear the snow and put down anti-ice. Some aircraft diverted whilst the rest were in the hold.


A couple of aircraft landed at about 2300 and then it closed again. At midnight they were saying 0100. Don't know when it actually re-opened. According to the MEN 15 flights diverted

Suzeman

PS - now SNOCLO again 1900

[JackRalston]

A couple of aircraft landed at about 2300 and then it closed again. At midnight they were saying 0100. Don't know when it actually re-opened. According to the MEN 15 flights diverted

Ah right! Also just realised MAN was SNOCLO and they've just opened it 2 minutes ago. It's been closed for at least an hour or two i'd say.

[Suzeman]

Looks like it was SNOCLO for an hour or so.

The current Winter Ops plan is here

http://www.magworld.co.uk/magweb.nsf/Content/AirOpsDLWinterOpsPlan

Suzeman

[Suzeman]

From UK Airport News 01.12.10

Epernay, the Champagne bar with branches in Manchester and Leeds, has launched its first outlet in the travel retail sector, with a new venue at Manchester Airport. Airside in Terminal 1, the 160 cover bar mirrors the style and offer of Epernay’s city centre sites. However, as a reflection of the broader clientele base and environment of this new location, the airport branch also includes a food menu.

As with its downtown venues, the drinks list here features nearly 100 Champagnes, including a number of older vintages and rarities. There are 11 different Champagnes available by the glass. A selection of ‘speciality Champagnes’ is also available to order by the glass, changing on a seasonal basis.

In addition to a concise but carefully thought out selection of still wines, beers and spirits, the bar offers four pages dedicated to cocktails. The food menu has a distinctly rustic French feel, including oysters, cheese and meat platters, French onion soup or beef Bourguignon.

See this being a bit hit with the locals.....:rolleyes:. But what's this - no Boddingtons?......

Suzeman

[washingtondave]

Agree with the earlier comment about the dysfunctional arrivals board. Whilst monitoring live traffic using a well known piece of flight tracking software last night I could see several aircraft in the hold which then dispersed to divert to Liverpool, East Midlands, Birmingham and Heathrow, including a BA flight which had originated at Heathrow, yet the live flight arrivals on the Manchester Airport website continued to show expected arrivals. Had I been at the airport to meet someone on any of these flights I would have been very annoyed at the lack of true information.

[learjet50]

Good Morning

I Noticed yesterday that Manchester stated they were Not excepting diversions except for Emergencies.

Then low behold a PIA 310 arrived diversion from Leeds whic had been known about for 2-3 Hours.

Is there are reson why Manchester were not accepting Diversions ?

Is there an eception to that rule which permitted PIA to Land

Fly Be were told no diversions accepted (What is the difference)

a Q400 takes a lot less space than a 310 howvever it does not ear as much Revenue for the Airport (Ah is that the answer)



Regards

[wanna_be_there]

The PIA 'divert' was actually pre planned into MAN before the no diverts notam, and even though it said 'diverted' on the arrivals board, it was actually 'scheduled' into MAN.

With it looking likely LHR having some issues in the next few hours, the no divs notam may be lifted, as a few longhaulers low on fuel may be looking to get in. (although that may constitute an 'emergency' so may let them in anyway)

[mathers_wales_uk]

I would imagine that the Not available for diversions message is due to spare stands not being cleared and concentration is on the day to day operation of the airport.

Similar thing happened last year when almost all the uk airport were snow closed. The airports that were open didn't take long to fill up before the not available for diversions.

If it's an emergency then it's a different ball game

[Vuelo]

Some mutterings that TAP are to announce several new European routes this month....could MAN figure?

[wanna_be_there]

could well be:

-LS used to codeshare on the portugalia service back in the 90's, so will be a nice return for them

-LIS say MAN is underserved, and with a 2 weekly WW service, its easy to see why

-May be a pre-emptive strike, as EZY were rumoured for MAN along with the new Libson base, so strike the iron while its hot

-Good star connections, and then going the other way good connections onto Brazil/faro/Oporto

-TAP have been rumoured before, so could this time finally happen?

[Manchester Kurt]

Nov passenger numbers are up on the airport web site.

http://uk.sitestat.com/manairport/manairport/s?aboutus.archive.trafficstatisticsarchive.index.November10. pdf&ns_type=pdf&ns_url=http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/552F5ABD2902C9A1802577EE004BF73C/$File/November10.pdf

Headline figure is passenger numbers are up 1.5%.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

LS (Jet2) did not exist in the 1990s and am pretty sure they have never code shared with anyone. Think you meant TP?

LEEDS APP.

[wanna_be_there]

LS (Jet2) did not exist in the 1990s and am pretty sure they have never code shared with anyone. Think you meant TP?

I did mean TP. I have no idea why I wrote LS? Apologies.

[Mr A Tis]

I think in the olden days, TAP was originaly LS, although I may be wrong.
Pre Portugalia, we used to get the smoky B727s of TAP on a DUB-MAN LIS service.
My experience on many Portugalia flights ex MAN were that the the FK100 / E145s were always pretty full.
Are the many Finnair cancelations due WX at HEL or is it the ongoing cabin crew strike at Finnair?
Anyone with an update on the proposed restart of Bangladash Binan?

[Ian Brooks]

TAP/ Air Portugal have been TP for as long as I can remember and Portugarlia was NI


Ian B

[AircraftOperations]

AY -> HEL canx across Europe due to cabin crew strike.

Believe some aircraft have been subbed in over there?

[JackRalston]

2 emergency landings this evening so far. First was a Flybe flight from Edinburgh to Exeter which had cabin pressurisation problem, taxiied to remote stand. Second a/c was a Monarch with what appears to be hydraulic leak/failure, aircraft was unable to vacate 23R and was towed to stand. Runway was closed for approx 15 minutes.

[Ian Brooks]

Thats 4 today! A Canadian Lear, Canadian Air Force Challenger, the Monarch
and Flybe, at this rate they won`t need any scheduled flights as they will be able to make their money from diversions http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif


Ian

[OltonPete]

The Monarch was BHX - LCA A320 ZB486, it departed BHX about 3pm and turned back near the Belgium border after about one hour into the flight.

I believe that there is a spare aircraft and crew and Manchester to
take the flight out.

Poor pax, two hours after leaving BHX they got as far as Manchester but all safe which is the main thing.

Pete

[purplehelmet]

Another flybe emergency landing! they seem to have one every other week!

[Ian Brooks]

From what I have been told most Flybe diversions for tech problems will come to Manchester.

Ian B

[Vuelo]

There are lots of good codeshare and O&D options for TP at MAN. The code share options are plentiful - S4/SQ/LH/SK/BD/JJ/MS/CO and now TP have just signed a codeshare deal with AT which offers more options to Morocco. I really hope this comes off!

[wanna_be_there]

TP to LIS is probably a route that will come around.

Good star connections, and then a easier way to tap into Brazil and now Morroco.

TP could also use MAN for PHL/SIN and extra options to EWR.

[LEEDS APPROACH]

:)ls = Jet2 , Tp = Tap:)

[Skipness One Echo]

LS could also use MAN for PHL/SIN and extra options to EWR.

How? Jet2 are not a member of Star.....
Lisbon, Portugal to Singapore via Manchester, UK is stretching credibility even if you do mean TAP Air Portugal.

It's also surely a major detour to go to New York that way as well.

[Alsacienne]

Thanks for the explanations .... this led to the delayed departure of LX 381 to Zurich, which was further complicated by heavy snow and no cleared runways at Kloten ..... and a car journey home that lasted 4 hours instead of 1.5!!

Well done to the Swiss duty manager for keeping us informed and being so charming.

[wanna_be_there]

Lisbon, Portugal to Singapore via Manchester, UK is stretching credibility even if you do mean TAP Air Portugal.

It's also surely a major detour to go to New York that way as well.

If the price is right, they may do it, But I admit LIS-MAN-SIN would be pushing it, not because of the route but the fact its always full and fares rarely discounted to a level it would make a LIS-MAN-SIN route work.

[dwlpl]

How? Jet2 are not a member of Star.....
Lisbon, Portugal to Singapore via Manchester, UK is stretching credibility even if you do mean TAP Air Portugal.

Not only that but there is no direct flight to Singapore from Lisbon.

[Vuelo]

errr...so by that reckoning noone would ever travel MAN-ZRH-MIA, or MAN-DXB-CPT, or MAN-FRA-SFO...because they are pretty much detours too.

As for LIS, plenty of passengers fly with BA from LIS-LHR-LAD, LIS-LHR-GIG etc etc

The argument that to fly two hours or so in the opposite direction to connect to a flight going in the other direction is a non-starter is simply wrong.

[Janu]

Emirates 18 service, operated by the A380; departed from runway one (23R) yesterday - how come?

[wanna_be_there]

It may be that 23L might still be out of service due to snow.

During winter ops, only 23R/5L are cleared of snow, meaning there is less to clean an at least the airport can stay open.

[roverman]

EK17/18 arrived 05L today for the same reason.

[MUFC_fan]

Etihad open Manchester Airport lounge : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-101210.html)

I'm a bit confused. People on here are very quick to throw Manchester into the pits. "Once the best airport in the world - not it's terrible" etc. etc. "Manchester can't support F class passengers" etc. etc.

However, what is this love affair with Manchester and long haul carriers? The link at the top is only the latest example - the fourth airport on their network to have a private lounge. Etihad fly to some of the largest airports on the planet - what makes MAN so special? Is the love affair of the ME carriers anything to do with the football clubs? I know now that Etihad has close ties with Manchester City but all three were at MAN before that point. Going on about ME carries, EK making MAN the world's first regional airport to host the A380 daily and it's likely massive expansion will take place next year!

Another carrier - SQ. They mess about with that schedule more than Sir Alex does with his United team but they STILL serve the airport! AA - BA supposedly put pressure on them to move more operations but they're still there.

The list goes on...

It is also the most talked about airport on this and 'the other' forum. 'The other' being more worldwide focused therefore making MAN arguably the most talked about airport on the planet.

So...waffle over, question time.

What is so bloody special about Manchester International Airport?

[biddedout]

Its not in bloody London

[wanna_be_there]

What is so bloody special about Manchester International Airport?


I think MAN has always been a 'strange' airport.

To think its secured some of the routes/aircraft it has is nothing short of astounding.
There are airports around the world that would give their right arm to have a fraction of what MAN has, and it just keeps on comming!

Some achievements:

-EK A380 before some of the worlds busiest airports (FRA/LAX/JFK)
-4th EY lounge in the WORLD
-one of the few airports to see a service from all 3 major ME carriers
-up to 6 flights a DAY to New York (PIA/BG included as they have/will have the rights to serve it)
-up to 2 daily CX freighters, and up till this year, was the only place in the UK you could see a china airlines aircraft
-the only UK regional not to have been cut by AA, and one of only 4 euro cities they linked with ORD this winter.

What brings them here though?

Yes Manchester has a large population, but its nothing special. Considering its also reasonably close to LHR its done exeptionally well.

Maybe its lower fees, maybe its the loads. I doubt anyone on here will have a definative answer, but like you say, we seem to have been blessed when it comes to our long-hauls!

[Helen49]

It is amidst a massive catchment area, has a massive edge over its competitors (Liverpool shortish runway, Leeds inaccessible and built on a hill, Blackpool numpty management - according to the Blackpool forum, Birmingham even more miles driving down the M6) so MAN succeeds depite itself!
Helen

[Ian Brooks]

Navpi
Vibrant is the best way I can describe Manchester, when I moved from London
a few years ago (quite a few) Manchester was just another northern city
but in last 10 yars or so has just reinvented it`s self
The Northern 1/4 is wonderful
Ian B

[spannersatcx]

and up till this year, was the only place in the UK you could see a china airlines aircraft


China Airlines flys 3x a week to MAN, wed, fri, sun!:confused:

[Ian Brooks]

And maywell be more next year if they take up the extra allocation

Ian B

[Will_McKenzie]

Spannersatcx I think that statement means that they fly into another UK airport, but only in the last year, whereas China Airlines Cargo has been at MAN much longer than that... correct me if I am wrong though!

[Skipness One Echo]

To think its secured some of the routes/aircraft it has is nothing short of astounding

Why on Earth do you conclude this? Big catchment area, fair amount of wealth, friendly people, lots going for it. Until recent years had a catchment area that took in Leeds to Liverpool for almost all routes and even laid claim to being a gateway for Scotland.

but in last 10 years or so has just reinvented it`s self
In fairness the rest of the country helped to pay for what the IRA bombed. I lived in Salford for six months. Not the best.

It is no exaggeration to suggest you could shut down 50% of all other City Universities if Manchester was large enough to meet demand.

There is London, there is Manchester, but sorry other UK cities don't come close ! Maybe that's why its airport does so well.

Thanks for that. I merely went to Glasgow University (est1451), member of the Russell Group, noted Alumni incuding Bord-Orr, Lord Kelvin, etc. Poor me. I don't count. What am I (and the rest of us ) to do. My life is crap, a sheer disaster because I wasn't honoured to go to Manchester. What to do?

[wanna_be_there]

China Airlines flys 3x a week to MAN, wed, fri, sun!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif


I was refering to the fact they now additionally fly from LHR now.

Quote:
To think its secured some of the routes/aircraft it has is nothing short of astounding
Why on Earth do you conclude this?


Mainly because of some of the points I enlisted in the same post? :confused:


Thanks for that. I merely went to Glasgow University (est1451), member of the Russell Group, noted Alumni incuding Bord-Orr, Lord Kelvin, etc. Poor me. I don't count. What am I (and the rest of us ) to do. My life is crap, a sheer disaster because I wasn't honoured to go to Manchester. What to do?


Wind your neck back in! Whilst the poster maybe put it the wrong way, they wernt saying the other universities were sub standard or the qualifications were useless.

Jeez, why does everything end up becoming a huge bitching contest on here, I thought we enlist on this site for the love of the same interest? :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

Wind your neck back in!
That's the smartest thing you've come out with yet.

China Airlines flys 3x a week to MAN, wed, fri, sun!

For the record China Airlines serve Heathrow with a thrice weekly A340 passenger service direct from Taipei whereas Manchester has the cargo on the B747-400F. Apples and pears I think but still a gorgeous colour scheme.

EK A380 before some of the worlds busiest airports (FRA/LAX/JFK)
-4th EY lounge in the WORLD
-one of the few airports to see a service from all 3 major ME carriers
-up to 6 flights a DAY to New York (PIA/BG included as they have/will have the rights to serve it)
-up to 2 daily CX freighters, and up till this year, was the only place in the UK you could see a china airlines aircraft
-the only UK regional not to have been cut by AA, and one of only 4 euro cities they linked with ORD this winter.

You compare MAN with other regional European airports and are astounded. Why? Those are EUROPEAN airports, not British. Hence Etihad of Abu Dhabi pretty much run by UK ex pats. QATAR is the same, as is Emirates. Indeed Cathay was for many years too. The countries are all ex British territories with long links to the mainland. Indeed MAN has seen Emirates right back to the early days of the airline.

The UK always has had way more direct links to the US than comparable European airports partly due to trade, partly language, partly history. AA MAN-ORD has been flown for a quarter of a century and so you shouldn't be too astounded it has lasted well in comparison with some others.

People in the UK forget just how "unusal" being British can be when you take a step back, we're pretty damned lucky in some ways.

[Mouser]

I see me reply earlier in the day has been removed with no explanation, CHINA'S GOVERMENT I wonder:oh:

[OltonPete]

Delta JFK

Reported as staying 5 weekly until the end of May is this a slight reduction?

DELTA S11 Initial International Changes as of 11DEC10 AIRLINE ROUTE (http://airlineroute.net/2010/12/11/dl-s11intl/#more-27848)

This site mainly just checks GDS daily and can be wrong at times.

Pete

[wanna_be_there]

Reported as staying 5 weekly until the end of May is this a slight reduction?



It usually has a reduction at winter as its a lower season and they use the aircraft on carribean and domestic routes. I think next winter will be different however, as AA will also be on JFK daily and I doubt DL will want to loose ground on them


You compare MAN with other regional European airports and are astounded. Why? Those are EUROPEAN airports, not British

pretty much run by UK ex pats

People in the UK forget just how "unusal" being British can be when you take a step back, we're pretty damned lucky in some ways.


So we are basing MAN's success on the fact it is British, and the the fact airlines are run by ex-pats?
Whilst history does have its part to play, lets not forget we are one of the most culturaly diverse nations (hence large PIA presence in UK, Indian carriers at LHR, then theres business, trade, market trends, those taking long haul holidays etc.

I was comparing us to other Euro airports, not just regionals because AMS is bigger, but has no AA service, or EK A380, or no etihad lounge, no F service from SQ.
FRA has no EK A380, no AA ORD service
MAD has no EK A380, no Etihad lounge
LIS has no EK service at all, no Etihad lounge, no AA service, no SQ service

Etc etc etc etc, all not exactly small airports serving small cities are they?

[Skipness One Echo]

It usually has a reduction at winter as its a lower season and they use the aircraft on carribean and domestic routes

I think he's asking why it's not daily from the summer season commencement when the clocks go forward....

It usually has a reduction at winter as its a lower season and they use the aircraft on carribean and domestic routes

Sir if this is your conclusion from what I said then there's no point in debating. It's not exclusively a reason, I tried to guide you to some factors which explain why things are the way they are. And yet you dismiss them with a simple turn of phrase?

I was comparing us to other Euro airports, not just regionals because AMS is bigger, but has no AA service, or EK A380, or no etihad lounge, no F service from SQ. US? I would put on the fact that you are NOT in any way part of Manchester Airport or any airline therein.

I was comparing us to other Euro airports, not just regionals because AMS is bigger, but has no AA service, or EK A380, or no etihad lounge, no F service from SQ.
FRA has no EK A380, no AA ORD service
MAD has no EK A380, no Etihad lounge
LIS has no EK service at all, no Etihad lounge, no AA service, no SQ service

Etc etc etc etc, all not exactly small airports serving small cities are they?

Amsterdam is a SkyTeam fortress hub and has only recently gained an Emirates service on the B772. Manchester has seen Emirates for three and bit decades, and has now an Emirates A380. The main reason being Emirates was founded and built up by members of the UK aviation establishment.

Frankfurt is a STAR hub and the yields on the long standing AA FRA-ORD route were destroyed by ferocious and combined competition from Lufthansa and the Chicago based UNITED AIRLINES working together and managing to cover connections at both ends trapping AA in a STAR ALLIANCE sandwich. Manchester remains a spoke in other people's hubs. It is not a HUB for any alliance. This is why American are not up against a locally based strong competitor, and have survived a quarter of a century at MAN, having seen off BMI who had few connections at US end.

You say Lisbon has no Emirates service at all. True, Newcastle does though as the UK is a mature Emirates market. You quote the F Service from Singapore. Mate you must be aware, that the bulk of the SQ service outta MAN these days is sold from Munich.

Dude you're comparing apples and pears and waving bananas all at once.

[The96er]

This is why American are not up against a locally based strong competitor, and have survived a quarter of a century at MAN, having seen off BMI who had few connections at US end.

Did BMI not connect/codeshare with United through ORD ??

[Mouser]

Still waiting for that explanation why my reply was removed, and the thread that I was replying to.

[wanna_be_there]

Sir if this is your conclusion from what I said then there's no point in debating. It's not exclusively a reason, I tried to guide you to some factors which explain why things are the way they are. And yet you dismiss them with a simple turn of phrase?



where did you try to explain this, as I didnt see any reference point to delta in your posts?

US? I would put on the fact that you are NOT in any way part of Manchester Airport or any airline therein.


I am an airline employee, I refereced MAN as us, because I was talking about the airport in an entireaty. Not that I should have to explain myself to you anyway.

You quote the F Service from Singapore. Mate you must be aware, that the bulk of the SQ service outta MAN these days is sold from Munich.



But the point is, they still use F at MAN, it is still the DESTINATION of the flight and after 25 years, they are still here.
Also, the MAN/MUC cabin split is not as simple as you put it. The demand on the day dictates where the bulk of the seats go. For example, the majority of Y will be given to MAN this month due to VFR traffic. In previous years when the flight was only 3 weekly, they added 2 more flights a week, but this year, they are allocating more of the capacity to us.

Anyway, with all the:


Sir



Mate



Dude


Tagged along with such irateness, were you high last night or something?

[Skipness One Echo]

Tagged along with such irateness, were you high last night or something?

I was not but if implying that someone you're debating with is on drugs and therefore you are right helps you then what on Earth can I say?

My point about F class offeing from Singapore is that it is actually a by-product of the route now being split with Munich. There was not traffic for a B77W to route MAN-SIN with an F class exclusively for MAN. Actually can the B77W do MAN-SIN or did they need the B77E? Let's not forget that the reason SQ are struggling a little is because of EK, QR and EY. That's a whole other argument though.

I didn't attempt to solely attribute Manchester's many good points to being British at all. I merely point out that UK-US is greatly over represented in capacity if you compare it to European Country x - USA due to reasons of language, culture and history. This is the reason that AA served GLA / MAN / BHX / LGW / LHR / STN at one time. Similarly CO serving BFS, GLA, EDI, MAN, LHR and until recently BRS and LGW.

Historically we have also had presence in the Gulf region that other similar sized countries haven't. Hance when you look at Manchester and see Emirates, Etihad and QATAR whilst decrying Schiphol for not having anything similar until recently, I tried to explain the cultural and historical aspect. Now clealy Emirates have grown well beyond that, but it's where they started out. I even recall seeing the A300-600sat MAN back in the day.

This is also why we if we want to go to a former Dutch or French colony, St Maarten springs to mind, we go via AMS or CDG. It's worth looking at the background to see why things are the way they are is all I'm saying.

[MUFC_fan]

Actually can the B77W do MAN-SIN or did they need the B77E? Let's not forget that the reason SQ are struggling a little is because of EK, QR and EY. That's a whole other argument though.


IIRC the 77W has a greater range than the 77E.

On your last point though I completely agree. SQ serves the Australasia region better than any other airline being able to connect MAN and a number of other European cities to this area with only one stop - something other carriers cannot. In fact, are they the only airline MAN-Oz who can serve it with one stop?

Obviously for those in Y and arguably J, price is a major consideration but for a significant majority of premium traffic, speed is of the essence. Therefore I don't see why SQ couldn't serve MAN daily with any equipment as a sole destination. Plus - SQ make an absolute killing on cargo from MAN. Another benefit of the 77W!:)

[Ian Brooks]

I thought one of the reasons of a shared service is a shortage of aircraft
as many off the older B777 are now leaving the airline and there is a gap until,next aircraft is delivered

Ian B

[marble bar]

EK serve UK/Europe Oz with one stop very well in fact twice a day from Manch

[MAN777]

Returned on the A380 DXB - MAN on Saturday business class, I counted 3 empty seats, I also counted the first class getting off and think it was 7 or 8 so thats only 4 empty seats in first (no they didnt look like EK staff on an upgrade they all looked like businessmen). Downstairs is anyones guess but judging by the baggage hall I would say it was packed.

Great flight and and very quick processing, from touchdown to sitting in my car on the M56 it took 30 mins exactly, well done EK, MAN and MAG !!

[pobox557]

I see me reply earlier in the day has been removed with no explanation, CHINA'S GOVERMENT I wonder:oh:


if you was refering to China airlines then china has nothing to do with it cause china airline belongs to Taiwan.

Its air china that belongs to china

[wanna_be_there]

New route courtesy of TAP face book page:


TAP will launch 6 new European destinations in 2011: Athens, Vienna, Dusseldorf, Bordeaux, Manchester and Dubrovnik, which represents a 17% growth of its European network, in a total of 49 destinations

[wanna_be_there]

More details of the TAP announcement:

LIS-MAN will be 5 weekly to begin with, and rising to 6 weekly for the summer peak.

[aidoair]

More details of the TAP announcement:

LIS-MAN will be 5 weekly to begin with, and rising to 6 weekly for the summer peak.


Hopefully this will lower bmibaby's fares on the route, though hopefully it will not push them off the route altogether.

[wanna_be_there]

agreed, and whilst it is highly wishful thinking, lets hope the 5 frequencies are Mon, wed, thu, fri and sun, that way with bmi baby on tue/sat, we have a daily connection to LIS.

[MUFC_fan]

EK serve UK/Europe Oz with one stop very well in fact twice a day from Manch


Apologies - I meant NZ.

Great news about TAP - air travel is starting to grow again! :)

[BDLBOS]

SQ to OZ/NZ is two stops - MUC and SIN. It is also on that noisy 77W, which sucks after the first hour. Nice screen, many films and entertainment, shame you cannot hear anything above the din from outside. Can somebody ask SQ/Boeing to put some noise insulation in those critters!!

[wanna_be_there]

Great news about TAP - air travel is starting to grow again!


Its deffinatly looking up, on top of that, OS is rumoured to start a 6 weekly service to VIE, and of course there are the slots held at MXP for a BDr or LHi service.

Thats quite a few star connections we got now...

I wonder if anyone will codeshare on the new TP service, such as UA or BD?

[AUTOGLIDE]

Quote:
This is why American are not up against a locally based strong competitor, and have survived a quarter of a century at MAN, having seen off BMI who had few connections at US end.

Did BMI not connect/codeshare with United through ORD ??

They did, and from using it I found it a much more enjoyable and reliable way to get to the US West coast than AA's vintage fleet.

[AirLCY]

The last 3 weeks I've had to queue for 30-40 mins in the morning peak to clear security, it's a mess!! Anyone know if they are short staffed as only ever 5 or 6 of 8 lanes open! Trains to Scotland and London are becoming more appealing by the week!

[busz]

TAP launches six new destinations in Europe

Bordeaux, Dubrovnik, Vienna, Dusseldorf, Manchester and Athens are the new routes of TAP in Europe in 2011, rising by 17% extension of its European network.

Manchester will have five flights a week early, bringing to six the peak of summer, six to Bordeaux, then increase to seven, five to Dusseldorf, four to Vienna, later rising to five, and three flights to Athens, passing five during peak periods. For Dubrovnik, the TAP will conduct one flight per week, only in high season.

The African continent will also have news next year, said Fernando Pinto, chief executive of the Portuguese airline, not advancing further details.

Financial activity of the company, the executive stressed that the TAP, SA will have positive results in 2010, despite the 160 million euros more than that recorded on their fuel bill. For Fernando Pinto, "the vast output of TAP is privatization." The official believes that this is the right fit for that. "

(Translated from Portuguese)

[Vuelo]

It's quite an indightment that TP can see potential in MAN, yet IB/AEA/JK cannot....

BD would be crazy not to codeshare on the route, though not sure why UA would. It's all dependent on the schedule of course, but I can see SK/CO/US and maybe even EY or EK attaching a code to the LIS service.

The thing I am looking forward to most with this is a better connection to Brazil and hopefully South Africa, too.