MANCHESTER - 8

[dublinamg]

This is probably years late but just went through Manchester Terminal 1 last week and it's changed so much since I was there last - about 4 years ago.

What struck me how quite it seemed. I was there from about 1pm - 3pm on Thursday and maybe it was a quite time but even looking at the departure board there didn't seem to be too many flights for the rest of the day. All the food/drink facilities seemed pretty empty with almost more staff than customers. I know in pax terms it is about the same as Dublin which seemed much busier.

I remember going to Manchester a few times as a kid and always remember the roof of the terminal building which was pretty striking. Now there is virtually nothing on departure level before going through to the gates and I couldn't understand where all the space had been changed until going through to the massive security area and then the massive duty free area. Does it make sense to lose all the landside facilities and put everything airside? It might seem strange but I thought the airport was missing something without the landside terminal I remember.

I have never been in an airport where you have to virtually go through a maze to get to the gates through the biggest duty free shop I have ever seen and I thought I was going through the wrong way - again there didn't seem to be many customers there buying anything. On the plus side there were many good choices for food/drink in the departures area airside.

Two complaints I have though are about the gates and flight announcements. We were going from gate 7 and when I got down there it was just stand around until the flights were called - no seats at all. This doesn't seem a good way of giving customers a good experience and then it was weird to go to a gate on one side of the concourse and cross under to board from the other side - are all the gates like that in Manchester? No seats and criss cross the pier to board?

Also about 25 minutes before departure a final call announcement was made. With the crowd of people standing around a few approached the gate quickly enough trying to board, probably thinking the others were waiting for a different flight, and were met with a daggers look and a scowl from the ground crew and were told 'wait like everybody else'. When they said about the announcement she barked at them 'it's automated'. She might know that from working there every day but pax wouldn't know that. Again very poor customer service but why are there automated announcements telling pax to do something that they can't do?

Also I only found out later that they have a smoking area in the departures area but I didn't see any signs for it in the terminal. That's a great facility to have for those of us that smoke but I didn't even know they had one.

Just wondering what people who use the airport regularly think about these things?

While I was there I got to see an A380 for the first time and saw the Emirates machine take off in the cloud and rain so that was a first for me.

[easyflyer83]

You raise quite a few points.

Middle of a Winter weekday is usually very quiet for T1 and MAN as a whole. Plus with a rather large departure lounge, airline lounges and gate areas a few hundred people can easily disperse.

MAN T1 was rather unique or atleast a rarity in that rampside views could be obtained landside. That has now changed which is a shame I guess. However, going through security after check in is the norm for a hell of a lot of airports these days. I personally don't see the issue. Meanwhile the security search area does seem to be pretty efficient on the face of it.

Duty Free wise, you do get quite a few 'enthusiasts' on this and similar forums whinging about having to walk through duty free. Again I really don't see the issue. It's pleasant and does it really matter whether you have perfumme and cosmetics or a corridor walls at either side of you as you walk through to the lounge? For those who don't know, it is pretty wide pathway that happens to go through duty/tax free. We often forget that MAN has a very high propensity of leisure travellers for whom duty free and airport retail forms part of their airport experience. Certainly my partner and many of my friends arrive in good time so they can browse and buy. On the actual departure lounge in T1, I think it's a pretty good experience.

B pier at T1 isn't the best. It's old and it's been adapted to death, particularly with regards to passenger segregation which is why you go up and down. From the outside looking at the West side of the pier it looks awful. On the main floor of the pier it's not that bad an experience, it's bright, doesn't look 'too' outdated though more seating is required as you say. Downstairs isn't great at all. Ideally it could do with a rebuild but nothing on the cards as yet.

Automated announcements. I think they sound quite nice. They seem to do the job. In your instance I think an announcement or two by the gate team (which may have been made) could have made it clear that boarding will be commencing shortly. The automated PA did it's job in that it provided gate details and got the pax to the right gate. Automated or not the general airport announcements (i.e not gate) have never been that narratative. What I have noticed generally at airports though is that 'final calls' come quite quickly these days but I guess this is to get people to the gate ontime. Pax often complain these days about being hearded like cattle......my view is that many need to be hearded to keep the show on the road. Thats my view as crew anyway. lol.

I'm a supporter of MAN. T1 isn't perfect by any stretch but the experience in the departure lounge in what is a fairly old building is nothing short of excellent. The gate areas need some TLC. There isn't any excuse for the state of some of the airbridge carpets on C pier. Overall though I don't think T1 is that bad a experience at all and awards wise and anecdotally atleast, many passengers seem to agree.

[MKY661]

B pier at T1 isn't the best. It's old and it's been adapted to death, particularly with regards to passenger segregation which is why you go up and down. From the outside looking at the West side of the pier it looks awful. On the main floor of the pier it's not that bad an experience, it's bright, doesn't look 'too' outdated though more seating is required as you say. Downstairs isn't great at all. Ideally it could do with a rebuild but nothing on the cards as yet.
Barely any seats in Pier B i definately think Pier C is the better Pier.

I flew from Terminal 2 on Friday and that wasn't the best. Prefer Terminal 1 to be honest. Security goes round in a circle for some reason and the long stay car park is miles away from the terminal! When we used T1 we could walk it but with the T2 ar park you have no choice but to take the bus which is only every 15 mins. Next time we use T2 we might even park in the T1 & 3 long stay car park and just walk to T2.

[LN-KGL]

dublinamg:
Also I only found out later that they have a smoking area in the departures area but I didn't see any signs for it in the terminal. That's a great facility to have for those of us that smoke but I didn't even know they had one.

I case you are flying another time from Terminal 1, here is a quick "how to find the smoking area":
After having finished the perfume maze and can see Starbucks, you will find some stairs to the right that lead up to the food terrace. Having reached the upper level you need to look for the toilets (slightly to the right) and then you'll also see the sign for the smoking area. Just follow the signs through the corridors, though fire doors and eventually you'll end up at the door to the fenced in smokers balcony.

[750XL]

I flew from Terminal 2 on Friday and that wasn't the best. Prefer Terminal 1 to be honest. Security goes round in a circle for some reason and the long stay car park is miles away from the terminal! When we used T1 we could walk it but with the T2 ar park you have no choice but to take the bus which is only every 15 mins. Next time we use T2 we might even park in the T1 & 3 long stay car park and just walk to T2.

T2 long stay isn't miles away from the terminal at all, it's a mile if that and easily walkable (10 minute walk). The bus takes 3-4 minutes to get from the car park to T2 concourse. I'd say a 3-4 min bus ride from car park to terminal isn't bad at all for a large intl airport...

Just think of all the poor staff that have to travel from the car park next to T2 long stay to work every day :{

[Mr A Tis]

I did the T1 perfume maze the other week. Most unusually for me, I was tempted to buy something. However, at 6am there was only one check out open & a huge queue.
I declined the wait, put the stuff back and went to the gate.
It made me laugh at the huge shopping mall but with hardly any open facilities to actually buy something !!

[Mr A Tis]

My friend had booked on the new Jet2 route from MAN to IST. He's just received an e-mail saying that route has been cancelled ( for operational reasons)


He's now rebooked with Turkish at a lower fare than Jet 2.

My advice : never ever book with a lo co (EZY, RYR, LS, ZB) without checking the big boys ( LH LX SN BA TK etc) first.
In my own experience a low cost airline is rarely a lowest fare airline.

[JackRalston]

In Dubai currently, flew out on the 12th on UAE22. Check-in was fine, secruity screening was busy and saw about 10 lanes open but as we got in the queue they told us to jump to a lane just opened and got through in seconds! Boarding stand 12, we were in the queue all the way back to about abeam 8 I think then slowly moved forward. Flight must of been 99% full because I didn't see any empty seats near me. Dubai is amazing but I wouldn't like living here. Back on Sunday!

[RoyHudd]

Airports aside, Manchester is a far better place to live and work in than Dubai. Experience speaking.

[AircraftOperations]

Looks like Manchester has lost its IRIS machines now. Will that cause a lot of problems?

BBC News - Eye scanners at England airports turned off (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17058448)

[easyflyer83]

My advice : never ever book with a lo co (EZY, RYR, LS, ZB) without checking the big boys ( LH LX SN BA TK etc) first.
In my own experience a low cost airline is rarely a lowest fare airline.

Without getting defensive.....you'll find that EZY and FR are very much one of the "big boys".

The "fulls service is cheaper" view that many on here try to portray isn't very representative. There is no doubt that the legacy carriers can be pretty competitive but ultimately it depends where you are going and when you are booking. Book at the right time and you'll find that the LCC's are lower and the same goes with the legacies aswell. More often than not though, the LCC's will be cheaper or atleast comparative. The notion that many posters put across that the general public are clueless loons and only check LCC fares is frankly rubbish. The consumer these days is very savy.

You maybe surprised to know that EZY, ZB and one or two others have a very loyal following and that for many they are their first choice of carrier. Just because it's low cost it doesn't mean that every passenger decides to fly them as a last resort. For many on short haul the complimentary cheese roll and coffee or wine doesn't really make much of a difference.

The difference with people like us is that we are enthusiasts/keenly interested and so flying full service carries more interest than it does your average short haul joe who couldn't care less aslong as it's safe, on time, has 2 wings and gets them where they want to go. And I say this from personal experience so you can't kid a kidder. ;-) Joking aside there is alot of snobbery from enthusiasts like yourself. I've read many of your posts in the past and do come across as anti-LCC and you aren't the only one on here. So much that I reckon you wouldn't shed a tear if god forbid EZY went bankrupt yet with people like yourself there was an outpouring of grief when a Eastern European carrier with financial mismangement went bust.

I've worked for both full service and LCC so there is not an ulterior motive but it's just some observations i've made.

[Mr A Tis]

Good grief man get a grip. What on earth are you talking about?
Nice of you to completely fully 100% misrepresent my opinion.

I fly ZB a lot (silver card holder- thank you) & also EZY.

This does not stop me from using (extensively) legacy carriers.
My next few trips MAN-BCN are with KLM & Lufthansa because the timings are more suitable and ZB were silly prices on given days anyway.

As my post said. Never book a loco without checking the legacy carriers as well - it may well suit both in terms of schedule and / or fares.

You and I may be savvy, but I can assure you, and I know plenty, that just leap to loco web-site and never even dream of checking a legacy carrier.

I would suggest you retract your assertion of snobbery too.
Why on earth do you deduce from "sensible travel advice" that I would like to see EZY go under?

Shocking and appalling post from you !!

[Fairdealfrank]

All things being equal, it's common sense is to check both "legacy" and "no frills" carriers.

Those of us near LHR don't always check the "no frills" purely because they are not there. Can get to MAN quite happily on BA or BD from LHR, no need to go elsewhere just to go on U2 or FR, etc..

The savings (if there any) do not compensate for the aggravation of getting to the likes of STN, LTN, etc., and even if it wasn't a hassle, there's still the trains fares (for example STN £40+ round trip).

So, nothing to do with snobbery.

[JackRalston]

Arrived back to MAN tonight on UAE19. Whisked through e-gates with no problem, bit of a queue it seemed at passport control, probably about 10 mins wait. Baggage arrived by the time we got down there. No issues, glad to be home!

[rampman]

the bos of etihad talking to the M.E.N about the new call center and wanting to expand to 4 flights a day :ok: rampman

Manchester to be Etihad European HQ | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/jobs/s/1476492_manchester-to-be-etihad-european-hq)

[MAN777]

Thats great news for MAN especially if the flights increase as well. :ok:

Emirates have actually been doing this for years with their call centre at Wilmslow.

[MAN777]

While I am here thought I would mention the dire state of the car hire operation and how it needs sorting ASAP.

Last week I was on business in Toronto and was absolutely gobsmacked by how good their system was. Modern, clean, efficient an absolute credit to the airport and a great welcome to visitors.

What we have at MAN is a collection of tatty portacabins on top of the T1 multi storey car park, cold, windy, crowded with suitcases spread all over the outside ramp and steps (too much hassle to get them into the cabins) It really is third world and sends a very bad image to users.

I suspect it is a temporary system but it has been like that for some time.

Another thing that really annoys me is the amount of litter that has accumulated all along the railway cutting embankments leading from Heald Green to the Airport. Looks really scruffy, image is everything and thats the sort of thing that people notice. Railtrack, MAG or whoever is responsible can we get this quite simple job done or are we waiting for the grass to grow over it again.

I am really proud of my airport and promote it to anyone who will listen at every opportunity, there are great developments happening and I know money is tight but lets not let things get too neglected. While I am on a rant;
"Chewing Gum" another pet hate of mine, its all over the pavements and looks disgusting, lets get its sale banned in the airport at least. Rant over:ok:

[ManofMan]

Wow Man777, your chest must be one empty place this morning with that lot off it.

Too add to that i would like to put forward the lifts to the said Car Rental "Shacks"...never more than two working and you can sometimes wait 10 minutes for a lift, not to worry though, you can always use the stairs which dont smell of urine in any way shape or form.

Im also a very proud local to a great airport, but these things need sorting, might only seem simple but they leave a sour taste in ones mouth (not to mention the smell in your nose)

[42psi]

Railtrack is responsible for the embankments, it's not just the litter is a problem.

Loads of rabbits, which then come through onto the airfield attracting foxes/buzzards etc.

Railtrack don't seem to to be willing/able to do anything.

[MAN777]

Councils back MAG plans to buy another UK airport : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-170212.html)

[Sam Chipperfield]

Thought the A380 was every Day, Noticed Todays Dinner Time Dubai Flight was used by a 777 for some reason...

[JackRalston]

VIR809P just positioned in from LHR, A346 GVEIL, any idea on the reason? I have a feeling it could be due a new lick of paint seeing as it's still in the old old livery.

[OltonPete]

Sam Chipperfield

Per the link below some A380 services will be affected by wing checks in March and April but Manchester is not listed. I suspect maybe just a light load, BHX also received a three class 77W lunchtime.

Emirates A380 Operation Changes in March / April 2012 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/02/28/ek-380-mar12/)

Pete

[Skipness One Echo]

G-VEIL is to be the first A346 in the new colours. I believe G-VFAR has just been done and renamed from "Diana" to "Molly" after a very brave and ill young lady.

[Swing78]

Seems a great shame at a time when Gatwick are getting a daily Hong Kong Airlines service, China Southern are starting services from Heathrow and Cathay Pacific using B773s in the near future, Manchester is being overlooked for a direct service form the region.

As has been mentioned many times before, we have the demand and catchment area, but it still puzzles me.

Especially when a certain airline from that region operates cargo flights into MAN......:ugh:

[JackRalston]

Swing78 it is a great shame and you do make a valid point about MAN but unfortunately I think Management at certain airlines know that they can't take a risk on long-haul direct services to certain regions. With the huge demand on the middle east routes (DXB, DOH, AUH), they know that most pax are more likely to go via there because it has a good reputation and it's reliable. Unless the new DCT services can take a large proportion of the passengers away from going via these airports, it would never be viable in the eyes of those airlines especially in this current economy.

[Swing78]

You are right, it just completely baffles me.
It seems to me to bizarre to have three/four airlines slugging it on a route...MAN-MAD for example and it will all end in tears for one or more.

But there is no-one willing to give Emirates some competition by offering a service direct to the 'source' !!

With Hong Kong pretty much sown at from London by Cathay and BA, why would another airline come along and put a daily service against them? but HKA have and are willing to give some competition on the route! Thats on top of all your legacy carriers that can offer connections from Heathrow via their hub

Still....:ugh:....and indeed :ugh:

[Skipness One Echo]

But there is no-one willing to give Emirates some competition by offering a service direct to the 'source' !!
With Etihad twice daily, Qatar up to twice daily and Emirates three per day, all slugging it out, the market won't support Cathay pitching up and charging a premium to fly direct. Emirates have to fill all those A380s somehow.

[roverman]

Yes, direct to China still seems a way off. Better news though, is that SQ are to retain daily MAN-MUC-SIN for most of this year, having initially dropped the Thursday frequency. It will only be six a week during April, May and October. Not sure about winter yet.

[pwalhx]

As a regular 4/5 times a year traveller to Hong Kong I can say I would much prefer a direct flight from Manchester. Currently I use EK as I prefer them to transiting Heathrow or Europe. I know quite a few others would agree withme. I think SOE you may be surprised at the demand for a direct HKG flight.

[AircraftOperations]

Can non UK airlines get the okay to fly from China to airports outside of London.
BA and VS have got London sewn up and pretty sure they have a say in who can do China-UK. And if they won't operate to the "regions", then they will make it difficult for anyone else.

[OltonPete]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/alldocs/650242EF412F65E9802579B5004D9816/$File/February+12.pdf

Total Feb pax 1174024

Even taking into account the extra day this year still up over 6%.

Cargo up, charter down a little and the only other blot was private ATM's.

Pete

[mybrico]

I must admit I struggle with why anyone would fly to HKG via the gulf rather than LHR or now LGW. Via the Gulf its 20 hours ( including transit) which is at least 5 hours longer. To Australia Gulf airlines have an advantage from UK regional airports but not on most other routes. I much prefer the transit at T5, my phone works without roaming changes and I am helping to keep aviation jobs in Britain. I suspect there is a link between the number of Gulf carriers at MAN and the lack of direct long haul. We should be more like Germany and restrict the activity of Gulf Airlines and build strong regional links.

[chaps2011]

British Airways have zero interest in operating from the regions all they want is everybody to go through fortress London


Ian

[Albert_Ross]

A few reasons for travelling via the Gulf (I don't travel to Hong Kong but I do travel to Africa)

(1) Schedule - I can fly overnight and get to my destination mid afternoon, have a quick debriefing when I get to my destination and then have a good sleep. This isn't always the case with flying via LHR
(2) Changing flights part way - I would rather do 8+8 than 1+12. This is a personal preference
(3) I don't need to use the phone in the Gulf, therefore roaming charges don't really apply. They're billed to the business in any case.
(4) Price - Gulf carriers are typically cheaper.
(5) If LHR is busy, why not use another UK airport.?
I suppose I could be 'patriotic' and destroy local jobs for MAN<->Gulf and move them to London, but why?

[pwalhx]

I flew HKG-DXB-MAN in January, including time in Dubai the transit was around 17 hours. I am not through my own choice, but because I am travelling with colleagues from the South, flying today MAN-LHR-HKG the transit time is 16 hours including waiting time in Heathrow. I would rather take the extra hour and go via Dubai with a far superior service.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

My views regarding unreliability of connections over LHR are well known on this forum; I will spare readers a repeat airing! Ultimately, choice of long-haul transfer routings come down to personal preferences.

However, I do want to challenge this notion that it is "patriotic" to use British Airways and Heathrow, and that this will "keep jobs in Britain".

Emirates is one of Airbus' largest worldwide customers. They have a huge commitment to the A380 programme, along with a history of buying A300, A310, A330 and A340 types. These purchases support quality manufacturing jobs here in Britain on a massive scale. Many of the jobs supported are located at nearby Broughton. Emirates also operate a call centre in the area, and support jobs directly at Manchester Airport. Their three daily services to and beyond the Gulf offer a connectivity to this region which is a major asset in attracting high value employment generally. All the jobs mentioned in this paragraph result in taxes being paid to the same British exchequer as those generated by employees at Heathrow.

E t i h a d Airways has selected Manchester as a 'focus city'. Twice daily services are offered from Manchester to Abu Dhabi and beyond, and the company has expressed an ambition to expand to 4x daily in the longer term. E t i h a d will shortly open a European customer support centre close to Manchester Airport ... I seem to recall 200 new jobs being mentioned but could be corrected on this. The airline is also a partner in the massive investment taking place in East Manchester in the form of the 'E t i h a d Campus' project in association with Manchester City FC. And once again, E t i h a d is a major Airbus customer, significantly contributing to employment at Broughton and across the UK. All the jobs mentioned in this paragraph result in taxes being paid to the same British exchequer as those generated by employees at Heathrow.

Qatar Airways is another big Airbus customer. They offer Manchester - Doha services upto twice daily; a temporary reduction to 10x weekly will commence shortly due to fleet deployment issues. They, and other long-haul carriers heading east, including PIA, Singapore Airlines and Bangladesh Biman also contribute to employment at Manchester Airport. All contribute to the attractiveness of this region to new employers who require great international airlinks. All the jobs mentioned in this paragraph result in taxes being paid to the same British exchequer as those generated by employees at Heathrow.

Meanwhile, all employees working at Manchester Airport itself owe their livelihoods to those carriers who commit to serve the airport with flying programmes. Those carriers which stick with MAN through the economic tough times as well as the good are particularly appreciated. And those employees who owe their livelihoods to a prosperous and successful Manchester Airport pay taxes to exactly the same British exchequer as their counterparts at Heathrow.

British Airways is a brand name of an international holding company (IAG). Their business model is to hub at LHR (and to a much lesser extent at LGW). Their main base suffers the misfortune of having insufficient runway capacity available to meet its true needs, which results in unreliability of connections on days when traffic flows must be reduced. Short-haul Shuttles bear the brunt of such disruption. BA onboard cabin service is generally good, but (in my opinion) does not exceed that offered by the Gulf carriers and SIA.

Please note that I have no problem with BA as a company pursuing exactly the corporate strategy which best suits its business needs. Its raison-d-etre is to make profits for IAG shareholders, not to boost civic pride in Manchester or elsewhere. BA is not a special case. It absolutely does not owe a living to Manchester, Birmingham or Glasgow; it is a private company, not a state flag-carrier. But conversely, residents of regional cities and their hinterlands do not owe a living to BA based upon the very limited offerings which the company makes available to them. They are one travel solution amongst many; to select them when they offer the most attractive deal / connection is logical. To select them because they have a Union Jack on the tail is madness.

So let's just get this whole 'patriotism' nonsense straight. When I book a flight with EK / EY I am supporting thousands of jobs in the North West. When I book with BA I am supporting significantly fewer. Whichever I book, taxes raised flow into the same pot. Now let's be serious here. When choosing flights, patriotic fervour does not enter my thinking! Convenient flight times, reliable connections, good service, price ... all valid considerations. But I put it to you ... when I press the "Book Now" icon on an Emirates or E t i h a d reservation from Manchester Airport, how can that conceivably be considered "unpatriotic"? And quite frankly, if any airline is prepared to offer me convenient service from Manchester, I am more than happy to take them up on the deal when travel needs suit. Even BA get my bookings from time to time ... but on a level playing field with the alternatives. Not because they are a 'patriotic' option!!!

[Mr A Tis]

I use Swiss or Lufthansa to HKG from MAN- and when i do, i am never the only pax to do so ( same for Shanghai).
BTW Etihad dont serve HKG.
Using LX or LH usually takes me about 16 hours.
Its all about choice.
Hong Kong airlines are a great airline, but this new LGW service is premium class only - i give it 6 months at best.

[Skipness One Echo]

Shed that's an epic post.
BA also have over a hundred Airbuses in the fleet, many more if you take Iberia into consideration as well, who fly the A340 in addition to a sizeable narrow bodied fleet. BA also chose Rolls Royce for many of their B777s and the whole B744 fleet. In addition BA will operate the Rolls Royce powered A380 which by value is around 50% British.

I know you like to lead the cheers for MAN and I applaud you for that, but the Gulf carriers have advantages in employment rights and even basic human rights in their home states that I would be wary of cheer leading for. This very erosion of employment protection gives them a competitve advantage in flying long haul at a low cost that a European legacy could not hope to attain.

If you want to see how great and benvolent Emirates are behind the scenes, I refer you to the two incidents with the A340 on departure in which both came close to crashing due to overtired and inexperienced crews not setting the power correctly! There is something to be said for high cost and regulation IMHO.

[TURIN]

Ok, who forgot to pay the electric bill?

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi Skipness -

I am not for one moment suggesting that IAG do not make a significant contribution to the UK (and Spanish) economy; I am simply making the point that many other companies do as well. This list includes Emirates and E t i h a d in particular, as demonstrated by their provision of quality employment opportunities in the region surrounding Manchester Airport. Please be advised that I do not consider my post to be "cheerleading" for any carrier / airport. Perhaps you think it unforgivable for posters *not* to "cheerlead" for BA and LHR as you do? [Back at you, Mister!!!] :-)

I simply "cheerlead" for people to make rational travel choices guided by commercial realities rather than misguided patriotism. And I rebut the ludicrous idea that supporting quality services provided locally makes one some kind of anti-British traitor. I "cheerlead" for customer travel choice in the regions without being unjustly vilified by the usual LHR apologists for being "unpatriotic".

I have never suggested that Emirates is a model employer. However, many of BA's recent striking staff don't consider their airline to be one either. Neither do many former Dan-Air employees (and others). And indeed, if we were to scour the world for an airline which is a "perfect employer", I suggest that no such company would emerge. Emirates do have certain market advantages, but so too have many other companies. Britain's erstwhile flag-carrier has in the past used its formidable lobbying power at Westminster to great effect in suppressing competition from the regions. BA aggressively plays to its strengths. And not always fairly - ask Laker, Virgin. Please don't ask me to shed tears for them now because other companies play to their strengths too.

Best Regards. SHED.

[Skipness One Echo]

Fair point in many ways. The reason that BA had to take on BASSA is the result of the new airlines who don't offer generous benefits and pensions to staff, in truth BA had to introduce a 'B' Scale in Mixed Fleet which makes being cabin crew something young adults do for a few years then b*gger off from. No career suits the employer, cuts costs and makes flying cheaper for us as we assist in destroying ts & cs of staff by flying cheapest in most cases.

The idea that people 'fly the flag' just isn't a realistic proposition nowadays for too many. I do wonder if Qatar are really using fleet issues as cover, as MAN has three airlines battering lumps out of each other in that market and both Etihad and Qatar have been told to start behaving commercially and aim for profit with consistent return on investment.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Fair point re Qatar Airways. Expansion on the MEB3 Manchester routes has occurred at a breakneck pace over recent months with further capacity still anticipated by EK / EY. Whilst passenger uplift appears healthy, yields must be an issue at some point. We will see whether QR restores double daily frequency once their B787 deliveries start hitting the fleet. 10x weekly might be a blessing in disguise as we negotiate tougher economic times.

[Bagso]

The explosion of flights via the Gulf is not quite the "bloodbath" that you might suggest Skippy.

Manchester is thee largest City outside London by a long long way, the North West has a GDP as great as some countries in the EU, this is FACT, the demand is there ! Where once passengers relied on the services of what in most cases was an ill informed travel agent, you can now use search engines that can at least offer flights which depart from where demand originates ! As a consequence many of these passengers especially business pax have become much more savvy in relation to travel arrangements and will make their own mind up in terms of a product which suits them

The pax on the Gulf carriers havn't been manufactured out of thin air they simply believe that the product on offer is far superior to that offered by other airline options.

On a second point it never ceases to amase me that when a newsworthy item hits the headlines relating to Heathrow, many of the flights are infact barely half full !

What on earth is the point of 10 flights a day to say Hong Kong where the front end is reasonably full but the back end half empty ? I do not dispute an airline can actually make money on such routes but something is surely skewed if airlines have to operate flights in triplicate even where load factors are so poor.

....if figures quoted on "other forums" are to be believed ALL the loads Ex Manchester are at least more efficient by load factor ........front and back !

Finally if we are going to start asking questions about using a service based soley on human rights what about BA flights to various countries of dubious background ?

[washingtondave]

The baggage handling at terminal 2 must be about the worst in the world. it took over 45 minutes from my flight docking to recover my suitcase from the carousel, when there was only one other carousel running, and therefore flight, to handle. This is terrible service. I am an infrequent traveller at Manchester, but each time I have used terminal 2 the level of service has been the same.

[TSR2]

it took over 45 minutes from my flight docking to recover my suitcase from the carousel,

Considering you have to clear immigration, 45 mins seems quite acceptable to me.

[johnnychips]

No, that's poor. I use MAN a lot (T1 and T3 admittedly) and have never had to wait so long.

[OltonPete]

Maybe not a bloodbath but hardly stunning.

Forget yields and cargo as this is not in the public domain but these are my observations: -

January was a lot better for the three airlines but still over 33000 empty seats or the equivalent of two QR A332's flying empty every day of the month. Seats available were around 141000 giving an average load factor of 76%.

CAA figures - Doha 26526 Dubai 59468 and Abu Dhabi 21793

My figures using libhomeradar (rotations) and planespotters.net (configs): -

Doha 214 pax per flight or 73% (give or take 2%) - more A333's than A332's

Dubai 320 pax per flight or 81% - a few 489 seat A380's and 278 seat A332's

Abu Dhabi 176 pax per flight or 67% (give or take 2% due possible canx flight)

Based on 124 sectors for QR and EY (was one EY cancelled?) and 186 for EK.

At least the one with what appears to have the deepest pockets are the ones with the lower figures

Pete

[The96er]

it took over 45 minutes from my flight docking to recover my suitcase from the carousel,

The airline you used and hence, the respective handling agent will have been more of a factor than the airport itself.

[mickyman]

OltonPete

Have you any figures for other British airports to compare ?
or is the only airport that can be compared LHR ?

MM

[Cazza_fly]

The baggage handling at terminal 2 must be about the worst in the world. it took over 45 minutes from my flight docking to recover my suitcase from the carousel, when there was only one other carousel running, and therefore flight, to handle. This is terrible service. I am an infrequent traveller at Manchester, but each time I have used terminal 2 the level of service has been the same.


Where did you arrive from? What airline? What aircraft?

The other carousel could have been used by another airline served by different handling agents..? There are so many factors that could add up to the reasoning for this. Ok, I agree I feel it should be atleast a little faster, but personally I have never waited more than 30 minutes after arriving on-stand in T2 to retrieve luggage, or atleast for the luggage from the flight to start coming around the carousel.

[OltonPete]

MM

It is possible to compare with all UK airports but with Heathrow you have more than one airline in some cases and different types of aircraft with different configs and I haven't got the time to dig that far. Here is a quick compare.

As for Dubai in January

BHX 42834 - 345 pax per flight 83% load factor

GLA 24167 - 390 pax per flight 91% load factor

NCL 14331 - 231 pax per flight 83% load factor

LGW 51379 - 276 pax per flight 80-83 % load factor

LHR-Doha 61077 - 246 per flight - 80-85% based on 77W/332/333/346

Pete

[Mr A Tis]

I guess you may be unlucky. I arrived T2 last month (evening) on Monarch A321 . By the time I cleared immigration the bags were already on the belt. There were various other arrivals too.
I shall be arriving Tuesday into T2 from Atlanta, so I shall see how the daytime goes.
Like they say, it's usually not MAproblem - but the airline / handling agent agreement on staff etc that determines how long it takes.

[chaps2011]

Pete none of us are privy to how much the ME airlines make or don`t
but I was told by someone that Etihad were more than pleased at how
Manchester performs and was told that they are carrying a lot of high value pax
so I guess yield is what they are happy with.
If EK are carrying a near full load of F and J class pax the Y class are icing on the cake and cargo is being turned away which also pays good money
GLA soon to go double daily and NCL upgrade to a larger aircraft MAN to
get B777 on EK21 and A380 on EK19 this year also QR to upgrade to B787 by
end of summer and return to 14 a week by October
If the airlines were not happy these thing would not be happening

Ian

[160to4DME]

I was told by someone that Etihad were more than pleased at how
Manchester performs and was told that they are carrying a lot of high value pax

It was reported here also: News**/**Etihad toasts record passenger numbers THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/270300-etihad-toasts-record-passenger-numbers.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NorthWest_17th_Jan_2012_-_Daily_E-mail#)

MIDDLE East airline Etihad Airways....carried a record 8.29 million passengers in 2011, up 17% on 2010.

The Abu Dhabi-based carrier said the increase represented an extra 1.197 million passengers on its network, which covers 82 destinations.

Etihad said Manchester was one of it's top 10 busiest routes last year. The airline carried 222,465 passengers, up 29%.

Commenting on the growth, chief executive and president James Hogan said: “This result, achieved while much of the world was still very much in the economic doldrums and oil prices remained high, is testament to our emergence as a formidable force in the international aviation arena.

“It also reflects our commitment to sensible, strategic expansion which is why we launched eight new routes last year,” he said.

The new routes were to Bangalore, the Maldives, the Seychelles, Chengdu, Dusseldorf, Tripoli, Shanghai and Nairobi.

Etihad Airways’ busiest route was Bangkok with the airline carrying more than 500,000 passengers to the Thai capital during the year.

This was closely followed by London (479,000), Manila (446,000), and Jeddah (289,000), then came Sydney, Frankfurt, Paris, Manchester, Doha and Dublin to complete the list of the 10 most popular routes.

[mickyman]

OltonPete

Thanks for posting the figures - but none for Heathrow ?

As I expected where competition does not exist (to the M.E.)the figures are
'better'

I think for a 'third' airport (LHR/LGW) MAN's figures are very healthy.

Just as an add-on - does anyone know figures for Munich - to compare with
MAN ?

MM

[JackRalston]

CMB154 MD11 N382WA, declared emergency NW of WAL, descended rapidly and now about to establish 05R. No idea on the reason, but they were asked by Director if they need to stop on the runway or can continue on their own......interesting to see what the problem is.

[Flightmech]

At least it's a freighter and not a World pax aircraft full of pissed off US servicemen!

[spargazer]

N382WA MD11F departed @ 22.31 last night, it had "battery charger issues"

[Bagso]

As ever interesting facts Olton BUT it is the Heathrow figures that are the critcal ones ...

If you can work some magic so we could see those it would be interesting!

[Albert_Ross]

I had a quick look at this yesterday. with the CAA stats for December, and got the following:
MAN 83%
LHR 87%
I don't have the figures to hand today, but the issue here is that the stats just give airport to airport traffic, not carrier. I assume its just BA with their 3*772 and EK with their planes. What we don't know is the airline load factors, but at 83% I have an idea that the flights were pretty close to full on most dates (except probably Christmas day).

[Skipness One Echo]

There is also Royal Brunei and any Bangladesh flight not on the new B777-300ER on LHR-DXB.

[Albert_Ross]

Thanks Skipness, so that brings the LHR figures down a bit, but we don't know by how many because the seats on those flights are not all LHR<->DXB.

Anyway, the load factors for LHR-DXB and MAN-DXB are looking similar, to within a few % points, and that's as good an estimate as we're going to get.

[OltonPete]

Dubai is really difficult as SOE has pointed out with LHR having RBA and BG flying there as well (plus BA & VS). I tried with the November and December figures using the CAA punctuality stats but I couldn't even see any numbers for RBA and BG included.

Then you have so many different configurations as well as aircraft types.

Doha is a bit easier but again it includes BA figures for Heathrow (4 class 777?).

December - LHR - DOH 62659 - 202 per flight or 74%
MAN - DOH 25936 - 208 per flight or 72%

November - LHR - DOH 52617 - 175 per flight or 64%
MAN - DOH 20841 - 174 per flight or 60% (using 1x333 + 1x332)

Abu Dhabi came out as LHR 216 per flight in December MAN 208 and November
LHR 207 and MAN 187. Again had problems with configs with LHR coming out at 90% in December which seems high and the BA flight is shared with Muscat

Pete

[North West]

The data the CAA sends to airlines shows a full breakdown of each route by individual airline, so should be pretty easy to get what you need. Not really sure what the point of the comparison is meant to be though - seat factor is just one element of a complicated dynamic. Unless you have the yield, cabin mix, any airport specific cost differentials etc, then differences in seat factor alone tells you little. An airline might also be executing on different strategies at different airports which also renders any seat factor comparison pretty useless. A strategy to chase market share would probably see higher occupany with corresponding yield compression and a strategy to maximise seat revenue would probably dilute occupany as the trade off for higher revenue.

[OltonPete]

North West


I think most on here realise that pax per flight and load factor is a minor factor and no real indication of how a service is doing but my original post was only really to point out the number of empty seats in terms of thousands on "successful" routes and some have pointed out that it is no different at other airports, which is also true but food for thought though.

Pete

[mickyman]

OltonPete,

So, its safe to say that your original post was a waste of time....
because it didn't compare like with like - which must be a basic requirement ?

If you had figures on all empty seats for all services giving the total
available it would have been better.

Giving a figure of 33000 empty for MAN and not any other airport maybe a bit
incongruous ?

MM

[Albert_Ross]

True in a way,. but OltonPete is correc in a way, in that if there are flights from LHR-DXB and then on to Brunei or Bangladesh, what seats count as empty?

Having said that, OltonPete should not just ignore the LHR figures because they're "too difficult", it appears that the LHR load factor was below 88% for December (it would be 88% if the pax on the Brunei/BD flights had not gone to DXB and the pax on these flights had flown BA/EK instead.

Roughly, the December LHR figures were below 88% (somewhere in the region 80-88) and MAN figures were 83%

[OltonPete]

MM

If you go back to post 3299 my reply was really just querying the claim that the increased services at Manchester had not been a bloodbath and whether 33000 empty seats could classed as a success/failure (probably didn't make that clear).

I made no reference to Heathrow or anywhere else as this is a Manchester thread. On that basis were the later posts a waste of time - absolutely, and a mistake - absolutely but you live and learn ;) and I will know what to do next time.

Swiss - Showing in GDS mainly as 319's this summer and the lunchtime a F100 between 23/4 and 15/6 which is the period BHX loses its lunchtime service.

Pete

[mickyman]

OltonPete,

'whether 33000 empty seats could classed as a success/failure'

The only comparison to be made would have to be with LHR - thats
the point - not being able or willing to provide the info (LHR empty seats) is wrong.

What would you say if LHR empty seats were similar to MAN?

MM

[nigel osborne]

Mickyman,

I think someone is entitled to show whatever figures they want as long as they believe they are correct .

As Oltonpete says with so many different configs and varients used into LHR he cannot work out the LHR figure..why is that wrong ?.

If he wants to sat there are so many Manchester seats empty, and the load factor percentages suggest it, why can he not do that ?:=

Manchester has done really well in this region of the World and its no reflection on an airport if some of the figures are a bit down ?

Nigel

[mickyman]

Hi Nigel,

I was only asking for a level playing field - that is all
Why would you state how many empty seats there were on one
route......without comparing the companies other compatible routes?

OltonPete,

Do you have any figures for empty seats to Doha from MAN & LHR ?

MM

[chaps2011]

Nigel
The figures are not down they are up, it` s just that it`s not quite up as much the extra seats that are avaible. The stuation is that many flights are operating full
so if there were less flights passengers would be turned away and quite likely lost to another carrier and airport.

Ian

[MAN777]

I and some work colleagues travel on a regular basis with EK and QR

On more than one occasion I have known there to be absolutely no space on the MAN flights in Business. The last time I came back from DXB with EK I had to take a BHX flight instead with the free limo to get me to Manchester !!

[crewmeal]

At the rate things are going MAN could see 3-4 x EK A380's a day within 5 years. The figures are excellent and something to be proud of. I doubt whether London Airways would ever achieve such a performance on any of their routes.

[Skipness One Echo]

That's mainly because BA is a UK based company with a cost base to match. I am not bashing Emirates but do at least try and understand why they have advantages of being a "commercial entity" with VERY strong government backing and investment in infrastructure that demolishes all before them. Incidentally if you want to play childish name calling then be fair and use the equally silly name of "Dubai Airways" please.

[MAN777]

Skipness

Hardly Childish "London Airways" has been used by most north of Watford Gap for years.

British Airways should be prosecuted under the trade description act as the name is misleading, BA does zilch for the majority of the UK, London airways is a very accurate description.

[JSCL]

Indeed, I'd say FlyBe would do better with the name British Airways ;)

It'll never happen but by the theory of serving the whole country, FlyBe's the one.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

Hi SOE ... Always preferred "Cockney Airways" myself ... describes the target market so well! :-)

But seriously, let's not forget that BA has itself milked "very strong government support" in the past. The regions suffered with carriers considered competition to 'the favourite' being denied access to the regions for years. Please don't ask us provincials to yield to BA's hard luck stories today.

BA didn't want us. Fair enough. EK/EY/QR do. Fair enough!

Cheers, SHED.

[crewmeal]

Skipness

At least the Gulf carriers have invested heavily in the region at a time when worldwide travel is/has been in recession. What did BA do? pull out of the region leaving a feeder service that is quite often unreliable at the best of times.

[Facelookbovvered]

Perhaps APD could be used to help support routes ot of the regions, LHR is 99.9% full so doing what they have done in here in NI to support long haul flights might help, much of the traffic from the regions on long haul routes is low yield VFR and lowering the economy ticket APD to say a flat £12 for all flights would encourage traffic from the regions.

I guess the problem would be where to draw the line, perhaps saying inside the M25, might work? But there would probably be a legal challenge? Or go one step further and make it £12 from anywhere in the UK, but then add a London emissions surcharge for flights within the M25 to recover lost revenue. It does seem vey odd at a time when the country needs economic growth to tax air traffic so heavily, it's akin to sealing up a business letter box and going ex directory!

[Skipness One Echo]

BA want you in exactly the way EK, QR,EY,KL, AF etc do. As a spoke from their hub. As to worshiping at the altar of Emirates, they're becoming dominant in a way that means the return of direct non stop services is untenable as Emirates will win on price and clout. No Cathay and Singapore struggling, I doubt MAN will see too many 787 routes if that continues. They're too powerful now.

[MAN777]

skipness

re EK dominating, that is now a fact of life and its not just a UK thing, they are thought to be responsible for damaging the Kangaroo route and openly poach passengers wherever they can get away with it. The DXB EK hub is a great big black hole that needs feeding passengers 3 or 4 times a day.

I accept that legacy carriers are going to find it really hard to take them on with new routes but I actually don't really mind because I have access to the world (east at least) via a wonderful airport which is halfway to most destinations. As previously mentioned it doesn't matter that they are fuelled by Arab oil money because the investment floods into the UK on the back of the operation.

Us northerners don't mind hubing because we have been forced to do it for many years by our so called national carrier conspiring with codeshare partners and travel agents to funnel passengers through LHR.

Judging by the popularity of the EK LHR services I suspect they are denting the fortunes of grandfather airlines there ?

[TURIN]

I doubt MAN will see too many 787 routes if that continues.

First one starts this winter.

Assuming the GEnx engine ever gets certified.

[mickyman]

Skipness One Echo

As I described a few years ago on this very forum - Its a hub and
spoke system but on a much bigger (global) scale.
I think your problem is that it is no longer YOUR hub and spoke that
dominates.

Welcome to the world of global consumer power.


PS:Glad to hear that BA's finances are picking up.

MM

[Skipness One Echo]

Mickeyman it's not my hub, I don't work for BA. It's in the control of a non democratic Arab state which has the power to squash the competition and work with a cost base a fraction of it's legacy rivals. The Gulf carriers have focusses on Manchester and the UK for very particular cultural and political reasons much of which has little to do with commercial profit and loss. It's swapping one non level playing field for another and being impressed because one serves MAN with medium to heavy aircraft three times a day versus legacy on smaller equipment on multiple dailes. They're not all that different, the gulf boys have bigger........planes.

The B787 point I was making was on legacy point to point, the "next big thing" as it were. Adding new routes on a p2p from MAN.

[Mr.Bloggs]

Why not support your own country's flag carrier in the same way you support Manchester Airport. Or do you feel ok just prostituting your support in favour of the Arab carriers? I can guarantee that the Sheikhs in the UAE (Doha, Qatar included) are not so benevolent. Try working out there. I have, and they despise Britain along with the USA.

Or can you just not get over BA pulling out of MAN? Childish folk.

[JSCL]

Since when did the gulf boys have bigger planes? Doesn't Virgin and BA both have A380's on order? Don't BA operate the 777 and 747? What do the gulf carriers operate, 777's, 330's and some 340's just like the London lot.

@Mr.Bloggs, as someone who travels by air some 12+ times per month the service and quality of the gulf operators is just far better and far superior from my experience. I used to be very BA loyal as many of us well traveled in the UK are/were. But no longer.

[Skipness One Echo]

You know very well I meant they operate larger aircraft into Manchester for goodness sake.

[JSCL]

Oh yes because flying a380's the stones throw distance of MAN-LHR is seriously economical. What does the size of A/C have to do with the argument? There's enough London seats from MAN. The argument means nothing.

[MAN777]

EK also get my support when I have my business head on because I have a limo to pick me up, a super lounge at MAN and instant comfort throughout the flight. Fantastic transfer terminal, continuing comfort on second flight and limo at the other end, basically sheer pleasure to fly with.

If I go BA Business or club or whatever they call it these days I am one of the SLF until boarding the wide body at LHR having endured the shuttle scrum down and inter terminal transfers (T5 to T3 for AUZ). Then a seriously long flight to Singapore or Bangkok where you are turfed off for a compulsory leg stretch, then back on again for another long flight.

In all 3 flights with BA and 2 flights of luxury with EK

That is why I am not loyal to LHR and BA and would never use that route by choice.

EK wins hands down every time.

And I would also go as far as to tell everyone of that fact, an example being a friend of mine was taking his family to AUZ and NZ on holiday, his travel agents were determined to push him through LHR with One World. Before he booked he asked my opinion and I told him my views on the matter, guess what an entire happy family went via DXB. Thats people power in action.

[Bagso]

Re FlyBe anouncment

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archives (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1203/08.htm)

I'm sure we had a debate on here a week ago that Glasgow had best domestic network in UK....!

hmmmm well maybe not !

[mickyman]

Mr.Bloggs

I note where you reside.....and it all fits ! BA is not a flag carrier.

Skipness

Are there any democratic Arab states....no

Would you have a problem with Air India or JAL or Lufthansa expanding
on the Emirates scale ? How about United or AA ?

'The Gulf carriers have focusses on Manchester and the UK for very particular cultural and political reasons much of which has little to do with commercial profit and loss.' - Please explain this statement.

MM

[barry lloyd]

Much closer to home - within the EU - I recount my experiences today at the hands of BA:

Journey MAN-LHR-LIS (For reasons best known to themselves, TP do not fly MAN/LIS on Thursdays).

Shuttle to LHR - on time departure - arrival slightly ahead of schedule. Walk about 1/4 of a mile around T5 to reach the transfer bus to T3, (because not all BA departures are from T5!) which takes about 15 mins. Departure gate comes up (eventually) in T3, and we are sent down to a bussing gate, where the bus completely circumnavigates the building we have just left, (they've got the builders in, you see), before heading off towards the aircraft. The A320 requires three buses to take the passengers there, but pushes back on time.

Alternatives were KLM ( ridiculously expensive) LH (silly routings) and SN (poor connections). EZY starts its direct service fom LPL in a few weeks - thank God!

[Skipness One Echo]

I'm sure we had a debate on here a week ago that Glasgow had best domestic network in UK....!

We did and I gave you the actual numbers of domestic destinations. Happy for someone to list the MAN domestics and see if it's more.

This is flybe, who have plunged into the red, now moving to the old BA model of hubbing at Manchester. Bearing in mind how much pressure domestic flying is under, this is a good move for flybe, but whether it translates into more profit I don't know.

additional 86 convenient regional point-to-point connections and choice of 12 new flights* by optimising scheduling options through Manchester
How do we get to 86 more? That's more than 12 a day, or is it six there and back on one new route?

[La Amistad]

Does anyone think the creation of a hub at Manchester by Flybe has anything to do with the rumour of something on the cards between EZY and Flybe????

EZY have big plans for man. The planned growth had to be delayed due to Stelios stopping the original fleet expansion plans, however there is still a commitment to deliver extra aircraft to MAN over the coming years. Some EZY routes have recently been cut with no replacements yet announced. There is/will be spare capacity.

Could this be the start of something beautiful?? A feeder network (of sorts) to a Man hub for Flybe and EZY? Even if it’s just well timed flights between the two companies....or something more?

[Serenity]

If EZY want to go big at MAN there is precious little Flybe could do!!
If EZY wanted to stick a load of airbus there, there would be a long que of Flybe flight deck at their door, hoping for a job!!

[La Amistad]

I was wondering if it might be more of a co-operation than a battle? Not EZY trying to kick Flybe out but rather more a case of trying to make something fit? I think you might have mis read my post serenity or more likely I didn't make it clear!?!

Could Flybe potentially bring pax in from the "regions" (how BA) to then travel further afield with EZY? Exeter - Sharm anyone? Maybe as a code share? Maybe as a gentleman's agreement? Maybe nothing at all? But given the fact Flybe are now going into wet leasing as a way of helping bring in cash could there be a tie up?

Flybe doing the IOM's? Acting as a feeder network? Or all just crazy rumours.....??

[Mr A Tis]

Not unless there is a fundamental policy change. EZY is strictly a point to point carrier.
Any "connection" is worthless unless there is an interline facility.
It would be interesting if EZY were to follow Air Berlin & Germanwings in offering connecting flights - but I don't see it.

[roverman]

I don't do a lot of business flying, but I'm just back from a short conference in Amsterdam. Went with KLM, and what a joy it was. Clean aircraft, on time, experienced professional crew speaking excellent English. Everything included in the ticket price, which wasn't extortionate. And then of course you have Schipol, still one of the best airports. I don't know whether this is a new thing, or unique to KLM, but on both flights the pilots joined the cabin crew at the front galley to say goodbye to all the pax, with genuine warmth. This was a surprisingly welcome gesture. Both outbound and inbound flights were full or nearly full.

People have knocked legacy airlines but I much prefer to use them where possible, to the point that it can make or break the decision to travel. We're very fortunate to have such a great choice of airlines at MAN.

[Skipness One Echo]

It may have been the purser, I thought it was the Captain last time I flew KLM til I realised male cabin crew have stripes on their sleeve and a similar uniform.....

[MAN777]

I have seen Flightdeck crew say goodbye hundreds of times in my travels, most recent was a few weeks ago on the USAirways A330 on the PHL - MAN flight. It only takes a few minutes to do and it means so much to the passengers to actually get the chance to interact with the crew who are usually bolted behind a security door. If I was an airline CEO I would insist all my crews did it.
Obvious exceptions to this are the very quick turnarounds of LOCOs I don't suppose they get a chance to pee let alone talk to people.

[spannersatcx]

BA crew bade me farewell last week on a flight, sems a few do it now.

[roverman]

spannersatcx said:

BA crew bade me farewell last week on a flight, sems a few do it now.


I need to get out more!

[roverman]

The FlyBe Hub, as I understand it, really amounts to a coordination of scheduling rather than much new capacity. This seems a sensible and low risk strategy.

[Mr A Tis]

My friend often has to travel AMS-MAN-AMS at short notice, and always travels KLM. Surprisingly late bookings are often very reasonably priced & of course boarding, bags & all the other guff is hassle free and free.
Looks like KLM are stepping up a gear, especially with the imminent withdrawal of LPL-AMS.

[nigel osborne]

BHX5DME.

Yes I was there as well at BHX ,although it operated smoothly the airport did not..delays to inbound and outbound as runway had to be checked before and after for debris, and only a brilliant pilot steering it sharply off the runway kept it off the grass.

Then BHX wanted a nice photoshot of it departing with the Airport behind, so they switched take off runways just for it.Meant that 8 inbounds which had been vectored onto the preffered runway had to hold for 25 mins..!

Then of course BHX had to borrow 2 A380 catering trucks from LHR and an A380 tug from Manchester..which I later saw going on the back of a low loader back their. :O

Still as a spectacle was brill :ok:

Nigel

[compton3bravo]

An EZY Captain said goodbye to everyone at Luton a little while ago after a flight from Malaga - there again he was Dutch!

[750XL]

I don't do a lot of business flying, but I'm just back from a short conference in Amsterdam. Went with KLM, and what a joy it was. Clean aircraft, on time, experienced professional crew speaking excellent English. Everything included in the ticket price, which wasn't extortionate. And then of course you have Schipol, still one of the best airports. I don't know whether this is a new thing, or unique to KLM, but on both flights the pilots joined the cabin crew at the front galley to say goodbye to all the pax, with genuine warmth. This was a surprisingly welcome gesture. Both outbound and inbound flights were full or nearly full.

My girlfriend lives in The Netherlands so I travel to and from AMS at least once a month usually. I've always historically preferred Easyjet just assuming they'd be the cheapest but recently I've found out this isn't always the case, particularly over weekends.

A couple of months ago I was flying out with KLM on a Friday afternoon. The aircraft got struck by lightening 3+ times on approach, subsequently sending it tech on the ground. Both the captain and cabin manager presented themselves at the gate and did the announcement in fluent English (as is the way with the Dutch, think their English is better than mine at times :*) and then again in Dutch. They stayed for 30minutes or so to answer any questions the pax had. As time went on they kept popping up to keep us informed which helped a lot against some of the more angry passengers and eventually we were cleared to go. Excellent service in flight by all cabin crew and they even re-arranged passengers seats in flight depending on how tight peoples connections were at AMS.

I sent a letter to KLM commenting on the excellent service provided by both the flight deck and cabin crew and to pass on my thanks to all, soon after I received a very nice gift off them :ok:

[redED]

I have seen Flightdeck crew say goodbye hundreds of times in my travels, most recent was a few weeks ago on the USAirways A330 on the PHL - MAN flight. It only takes a few minutes to do and it means so much to the passengers to actually get the chance to interact with the crew who are usually bolted behind a security door. If I was an airline CEO I would insist all my crews did it.
Obvious exceptions to this are the very quick turnarounds of LOCOs I don't suppose they get a chance to pee let alone talk to people.

We don't at flybe. The cabin crew don't take kindly to it especially as they have looked after the pax for the whole flight just for the flight deck to come a steal their thunder.

[JSCL]

We don't at flybe. The cabin crew don't take kindly to it especially as they have looked after the pax for the whole flight just for the flight deck to come a steal their thunder.

On many of my MAN-BRU-MAN flights, mainly on the return BRU-MAN admittedly, I've had one of the flight deck crew come out to say thank you.

[OltonPete]

Both the American site and GDS show the Boeing 767-300 will be used
on Manchester - Chicago from Thursday 14/6 to Wednesday 15 November.

Also showing Daily in November & December.

Has this been confirmed publicly by the airline, can't seem to find anything
about this.

Pete

[Suzeman]

Quote:
additional 86 convenient regional point-to-point connections and choice of 12 new flights* by optimising scheduling options through Manchester

How do we get to 86 more? That's more than 12 a day, or is it six there and back on one new route?

SOE - if you read the linked article it says 86 connections ie city pairs and 12 new flights. This refers to weekdays (again from the link).

UK Airport News says the extra flights are "four extra flights from Manchester to Aberdeen, four extra to Edinburgh, two extra to Exeter and two extra to the Isle of Man. The airline has also optimised other regional schedules to improve connections through Manchester".

Flybe to create Manchester Airport hub; add 12 flights : Manchester Airport News Stories (http://www.uk-airport-news.info/manchester-airport-news-090312.html)

[Fairdealfrank]

Excellent! Wasn't that the intention when they took over the former BA "connect" (regional) routes?

[easyflyer83]

Obvious exceptions to this are the very quick turnarounds of LOCOs I don't suppose they get a chance to pee let alone talk to people.

Obviously I work for Easy and it happens on lots of occasions but it depends on the Captain and First Officer. I'd say you have a 50/60% chance of being greeted by a pilot as you disembark with Easy.

A couple of months ago I was flying out with KLM on a Friday afternoon. The aircraft got struck by lightening 3+ times on approach, subsequently sending it tech on the ground. Both the captain and cabin manager presented themselves at the gate and did the announcement in fluent English (as is the way with the Dutch, think their English is better than mine at times http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif) and then again in Dutch. They stayed for 30minutes or so to answer any questions the pax had. As time went on they kept popping up to keep us informed which helped a lot against some of the more angry passengers and eventually we were cleared to go. Excellent service in flight by all cabin crew and they even re-arranged passengers seats in flight depending on how tight peoples connections were at AMS.


Not wanting to out do your example but my flight into AGP was also struck by lightning and an almost identical situation occurred. Again, it depends on the flight crew by and large but generally most would do the same thing.

Indeed, several comments have been made that seem to point to the fact that low cost crews are generally inexperienced. Not the case. Whilst Easy has a lot of younger crew there are also lots of experienced members who have had enough of long haul with the likes of EK, BA, VS etc etc and have come to do short haul. Just because there are fewer dinosaurs doesn't mean that there is no experience. I was actually BA trained over 7 years ago with GB Airways, i didn't lose that experience with the takeover.

I know some of your comments aren't explicitely intended that way and I may seem defensive but some of you paint are very distorted picture of what really happens.

[easyflyer83]

We don't at flybe. The cabin crew don't take kindly to it especially as they have looked after the pax for the whole flight just for the flight deck to come a steal their thunder.

Very true lol! But then a lot of pilots are applause junkies and will happily come out on that basis.

[JackRalston]

Flew MAN-TFS with EZY in 2008 and I was able to speak to the pilot and f.o and the end of the flight. The door was open and we asked cabin crew if we could ask them a question and they let us in and then we had a quick chat about the routing and what not for about 5 minutes, then they headed off to another a/c for a leg to LGW. Having been on another flights with them, I've noticed they either come out and say goodbye along with cabin crew, or the door is open so people can at least see they are there.

Was different with Emirates last month on MAN-DXB-MAN. Cabin crew were all spaced out on different rows at the end with a polite goodbye and the pilots were still locked away.

[jamesferns]

Why would you even want to see the pilots ? After most flights the only thing i want to see is my front door....

[IB4138]

Anyone tell me how I get from T3 to T1 at 23.45 to pick up my hire car tonight?

[ETOPS]

IB4138

It's a 2 minute walk - turn left out of T3 and follow signs via new covered walkway. Terminals are next to each other.

[IB4138]

Thanks for that.

[Curious Pax]

Assuming they haven't disappeared in the last few months, why don't you use the car hire desks in T3? I don't think it makes any difference which terminal it has on your reservation - all counts as the same place. They are located on the ground floor of the T3 multi storey directly across the road from arrivals.

[IB4138]

Only the desks in T1 are open at that time of night.

[Manchester Kurt]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201202/February_2012_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf

CAA Provisional stats are up by 10.1% in Feb.

Now about 1m ahead of Stansted.

[spannersatcx]

CI freighter flts cancelled until winter, CX down to 3 a week, I guess freight not doing well at the moment!

[GayFriendly]

Why would you even want to see the pilots ?

Because so of them are quite fit ;) Last time I flew from MAN on ZB there was a real hottie of a Captain, sadly only saw him boarding the aircraft from afar he stayed locked into his cockpit for the duration....

[mickyman]

GayFriendly

Someone probably gave him the nod that a potential stalker/cougar had just
boarded !!!!

MM

[jamesferns]

Especially a forty plus saga stalker, ......

[Suzeman]

CAA Provisional stats are up by 10.1% in Feb.

Excellent - underlying growth of about 7% if you take account of the extra day in Feb 2012. And all these pax bring revenue.

CI freighter flts cancelled until winter, CX down to 3 a week, I guess freight not doing well at the moment!

So it could be below the magic 100K figure this year :{ Incidentally I never realised that MAN had overtaken LGW for flown freight since 2007 after the latter experienced a 50% fall in 2 years.....

The freight figures at MAN always used to be the precursor of an economic downturn being about 3 months or so ahead of this. However they seem to have been on the downward trail for a while now, so this connection seems to have been broken - looks like peoples' priorities have changed when it comes to buying things but travel remains a high priority. And maybe MAN is winning back some of the pax lost over the last few years with a wider range of services.

Suzeman

[roverman]

Looking over the CAA traffic stats Manchester stands out as the only airport of any size with real growth in February, when the 3% or so for the extra day is taken off. London airports basically stagnant, smaller regionals generally down, some by a long way. How come Manchester is doing so well in a bad economic climate, and has been doing well for over a year now? Many smaller airports did well in the credit-fuelled boom years, but now that's all over the real strengths emerge. For Manchester those are:

1. Close to and accessible by a large chunk of the UK population

2. Almost unrivalled choice of airlines and market sectors

3. Capacity and resilience offered by two runways, all weather capability, 24 hour fire and ATC, and multiple ground handling agencies.

4. City region being, arguably, the main economic centre outside the South East

5. Competitive pricing on car parking.

6. Sound financial basis of MAG, who have always ensured that pricing of operations gives a return on investment.

Perhaps more. Certainly MAN's performance in recent difficult times is telling us something. When there's lots of phoney money splashing around, many can prosper. When there isn't, like now, those strengths above really count.

[TSR2]

How come Manchester is doing so well in a bad economic climate

Maybe Ryanair is a factor.

[roverman]

Ryanair? No doubt they are part of the growth, but there's much more going on besides. SAS have 7 departures on most days, Lufthansa what? 10, 12? Only charter is really suffering long term decline, and most of that lost market is switching to scheduled flights, and so the passengers are retained. Cargo is slack at the moment, a reflection of the decline in imported goods which is nationwide.

[MKY661]

I think the statsitics for end of March and April will be extremely high this year. Both Ryanair and Monarch launching a load of routes which will operate quite frequently. Jet2 also launching a couple so that will boost them up a bit as well.

[Scottie Dog]

Just to say that it is good to see the rapid progress being made on the new tower - it is amazing the speed with which the structure is rising.

It will be interesting to see the progress being made over the next few months whilst the cab added to the 'mast' etc.

[IB4138]

Flew into T3, a week ago tonight, on Ryanair from Malaga. At 23.30 it is the last arrival at T3 of the day. We actually disembarked at 23.15. However, passengers were unable to exit the gate area into the terminal, as the doors were locked. We could see UK Border Control and people were banging on the doors to try to attract attention for a good 10 minutes. No one came, although one of the UK Border Agency staff waved at one stage. The sign by the side of the doors displaying phone numbers to contact, had been plaster skimmed into the wall and all the last digits of the numbers were...in the wall and not visible...therefore useless. Eventually, a woman from the handling agents was "persuaded" to leave the tarmac and come into the terminal and up the stairs to open the doors. However she was not amused at this or the complaints she received and became a little defensive and off hand in her replies. It was simply not her job to open the doors and she was not responsible, even though her employers were.

I flew back out of T1 early yesterday morning on easyJet. There was only one processing area open at security and a queue was developing, which was then exasperated by about 20 security staff coming on shift and passing through the one open control, causing passengers to be further delayed. The same happened when staff for air side retail units arrived.

Once through security, I found that the majority of retail units, including WHS, Boots, Starbucks and all but one of the refreshment units did not open until 05.00, although staff were present. One member of WHS staff was reading the morning papers at the display stand, with the doors locked. Thank goodness Soho Coffee was open and as a result I shall use them again when I transit T1.

Not a good experience for people on flights departing at the start of the day. Someone in the airport management,needs to think again about their offered retail experience for the early passenger and how their security staff get air side early morning, without causing delay to the paying passenger.

[Boing7117]

Let's not forget Flybe.

Them dashes are all over the place. I sat there one afternoon down by the viewing gallery only last week, there was a dash landing, it seemed, every 5 or 10 minutes. I also read somewhere that they've changed some of their scheduled services from manchester to improve connections so perhaps we might see them even more over the summer?

[JackRalston]

Have to agree with Scottie Dog, the new tower structure is growing by the day. I've been walking through the airport train station to T2 most days last week and this week I shall be doing so from tomorrow. I've noticed it already has a large presence. Can't wait to see it all when it's completed.

[hard_landing]

Over the years of flying into MAN & having friends that work there I am amazed by the number of freighters/freighter flights that no longer come into MAN.

Recent ones I can think of:

Jett8
Great Wall
Air China
Fedex MD11 ( I hear that they will bring a 757 back)

and these are recent history. With CI canx till winter how many freighters go into MAN now?

Also, I know of at least 2 frieghter airlines that have requested flights into MAN but were put off by the "quite surprising for a regional airport" landing fees.

HL

[750XL]

Fedex MD11 ( I hear that they will bring a 757 back)


Fedex returned today with their 757s I believe, although not actually flying again for another few weeks.

The reduction in cargo movements is a shame but not too surprising given the economic climate, I think most airports around the UK have been hit equally as hard. One of my family members works in cargo and the number of requests for importing/exporting goods via sea rather than air has increased massively.

[Flightmech]

Fedex returned today with their 757s I believe, although not actually flying again for another few weeks.

The 757 positioned into MAN today from BHX for ramp training. Schedule flying starts on Monday. MAN-BHX-CDG-MAN FDX5203/4. Aircraft daystops in MAN.:ok: No current plans for the mad-dog to return.

[bermudatriangle]

cargo traffic down is not good news as freight traffic in general is rising,despite the sluggish economic situation.increase in lo cost operators hardly compensates for the loss of prestige national carriers.

[nigel osborne]

Roverman ,

increases in passenger numbers at regional airports can be deceptive in relation to making money.

Probably 40% of last months 10% increase at MAN,came from new Ryan Air flts which bring absolutely nothing in.Similar story to other regionals ..if there was an increase mostly down to low costers.

Fortunately Manchester also saw good increases in numbers from the middle eastern carriers after the extra capacity they have added.

Also good growth in business passengers on full fare European airlines.and more modest growth to USA

Regional airports such as MAN and BHX will probably be fine long term, as they both have a good number of full fare airlines to get cash in..

Airports such as Luton and Stansted could struggle more, as they make very little on virtually a complete LCC charter model.

Nigel

[easyflyer83]

I think some of you are placing too much emphasis on who pays what. Like many airports MAN has a set price for it's services and, as we've seen in the past, tends not to get "done over" by the LCC's or otherwise. In effect, Easyjet, Ryanair and Jet2 probably pay more than what you think at MAN. I'm not sure about the other two but Easy uses peak time slots and they pay their way.

First and foremost I'm a MAN fan and it's great to see how well MAN does with the legacy carriers. It does bring prestige to the airport but when the chips are down it's been the LCC's such as BE, EZY and LS who have been adding the based units and nobody else so to kind of discount them is a little bit insulting to the airport and above all, the airlines. Also, remember that, contrary to popular belief, it's the charter/scheduled leisure pax that spends the money in the terminal in MAN and not the business pax hence the very mainstream mix of retail.

[nigel osborne]

Easyflyer83.

Your not quite right...

The airline passengers that bring the most in to airport shops are the ones that cater for family holidays.Thomson passengers spend the most.

Ryan Air, penalise passengers going to hot spots by charging so much per bag.As one of their lovely bosses said last year..If passengers want cheap sun holidays then leave your cases behind..think they all go to the same charm school.


We are getting to the stage when we can only just call Ryan Air Easy Jet etc, low cost because of all there add ons making them almost as expensive as full fare airlines.

I have a friend who used to be in marketing with airlines at a large English airports and spent many hours with Ryan Air doing negotiations..So believe me NO airport gets a good deal out of Ryan Air he informs !

Nigel

[nigel osborne]

Easyflyer83.


The airline passengers that bring the most in to airport shops are the ones that cater for family holidays.Thomson passengers spend the most.

Ryan Air, penalise passengers going to hot spots by charging so much per bag.As one of their lovely bosses said last year..If passengers want cheaper sun holidays then leave your cases behind, otherwise we will charge you accordingly..think they all go to the same charm school.


We are getting to the stage when we can only just call Ryan Air, Easy Jet etc, low cost because of all there add ons making them almost as expensive as full fare airlines.

I have a friend who used to be in marketing with airlines at a large English airports and spent many hours with Ryan Air doing negotiations..NO airport gets a good deal out of Ryan Air he informs !

Nigel

[chaps2011]

I think you will find Ryanair came to MAN on MAN terms not Ryanair
and he pays quite a lot more for the benefit and he admitted he would have to pay more

[North West]

Chaps - so you know the terms of the ryanair / MAN deal then ? I guess you must either work in the higher echolons of the commercial team at the airport or the airline then. Not sure I'd be broadcasting hints about details of the deal in either case

[750XL]

The airline passengers that bring the most in to airport shops are the ones that cater for family holidays.Thomson passengers spend the most.

Ryan Air, penalise passengers going to hot spots by charging so much per bag.As one of their lovely bosses said last year..If passengers want cheaper sun holidays then leave your cases behind, otherwise we will charge you accordingly..think they all go to the same charm school.


We are getting to the stage when we can only just call Ryan Air, Easy Jet etc, low cost because of all there add ons making them almost as expensive as full fare airlines.



Errr, is that not the whole point of low cost airlines? You pay for a seat to plant your bum on for a few hours then everything else is additional.

If you want a family 2 week holiday to Tenerife all taking 20kgs of luggage each then go on a charter :hmm: Want a 2 night city break in Amsterdam? Go EZY :ok:

[easyflyer83]

Nigel.... Re read my post because I categorised those who spend the most as charter AND low cost scheduled so basically I was making your point before you even made it. Plus not every LCC pax is carrying maximum hand luggage. There are many easyjet routes where lockers are by and large empty and remember that a duty free is additional to any hand baggage allowance.

The LCC are always more expensive argument is laughable too and has become a bit of a cliche. There is no hiding from the fact that legacy have become more competitive and at certain points can actually be cheaper but generally speaking flying LCC is cheaper ..... Fact. Ask regular ZRH pax who are to lose their EZY service who are complaining about being forced to use 'expensive' Swiss. Anecdotal maybe but I was taken aback by the volume of comments when I operated ZRH last Friday.

Northwest, I didn't say that I knew anything specific regarding the terms and conditions of the Ryanair deal. All I refer to us that MAN had Ryanair back on equal terms according to MAN and that LCC's aren't always flying into airports for peanuts. Remember that EZY flies into some of Europes most slot constrained airports where slots aren't cheap.

[Mr A Tis]

but generally speaking flying LCC is cheaper ..... Fact

Now that IS laughable.( once you edit out the loss leading headline few seats)

I can only speak from my own experience.

My Dutch colleague also is a regular on AMS-MAN-AMS, he generally books 7-10 days in advance, & KLM invariably wins hands down, in terms of fares & schedule.

Majority of Swiss pax to ZRH are in transit.

Sure LCC have their place, & very useful from MAN to places like Bilbao etc.

[j636]

IBERIA to Increase Manchester Service in S12 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/03/22/ib-man-s12/)

and TK to use B737-900ER on some IST flights from Sunday.

[easyflyer83]

Now that IS laughable.( once you edit out the loss leading headline few seats)

I can only speak from my own experience.

My Dutch colleague also is a regular on AMS-MAN-AMS, he generally books 7-10 days in advance, & KLM invariably wins hands down, in terms of fares & schedule.

Majority of Swiss pax to ZRH are in transit.

Sure LCC have their place, & very useful from MAN to places like Bilbao etc.

What I meant by that is that LCC are cheaper more often than they are more expensive when compared to legacy. KLM are very comeptitive but i'd hardly say they "win hands down". Even then if you don't wish to take a hold bag (and many don't regardless of whether they are full service or LCC) then Easy is quite often the cheapest. Indeed, many focus so much on the extra's such as bags, speedy boarding and the cost of drink/snack onboard that they forget that many passengers don't need and don't partake in those elements. EZY does well on MAN/LPL-AMS and it does so purely on a O&D basis and to make out that many of those passengers are misguided/didn't realise (like many posters do) is silly. It also doesn't account for the fact that despite receiving a light snack and a coffee on LH/KL etc, many actually like the Easyjet product even over that of a legacy and despite the downsides to travelling EZY.....which there are.

And in response to your final comment Mr A Tis. Why shouldn't EZY and other LCC's compete on major City pairs? Why should they be confined soley to filling routes to airports that others don't want to fly to?

[750XL]

I'm also a regular AMS traveller and use a mix of KLM and EZY.

Easyjet usually win the price war hands down, if you book with enough notice. Booking at 7-10 days notice then it isn't surprising KLM offer a better price, that's the way LCC's work. EZY are usually always full so they can charge a premium for late bookings.

The one exception I have found is travelling at weekend, when KLM do seem to be a fair bit cheaper if you're willing to fly out late afternoon / evening on the Friday.

[easyflyer83]

And that is how the LCC's work.....book in advance and it's cheaper. Just like the railways in the UK. Where as legacy tend to be cheaper last minute as they soak up any surplus demand to contribute to the premium seats and profitable fares they have already sold. Hence EZY's MAN-AMS next Thursday and Friday are already 80% full. Admittedly, mid week can be quiet.

[JackRalston]

Who set the fire alarm off around 1130 this morning? :ugh:

[JSCL]

JackRalston,

Olly dun' it

[CabinCrewe]

"legacy tend to be cheaper last minute"
Not in my experience. Ever tried to get a last minute BA CW seat to JFK ?

[spannersatcx]

"legacy tend to be cheaper last minute"
Not in my experience. Ever tried to get a last minute BA CW seat to JFK ? Not from MAN! :=

[Skipness One Echo]

You missed the word "direct". That's like saying you can't get an Emirates flight to Sydney from MAN.......

[MKY661]

Who set the fire alarm off around 1130 this morning? :ugh:

Oops. Good thing i wasnt there i dont like Fire Alarms

[LN-KGL]

Who set the fire alarm off around 1130 this morning?

Wasn't Michael O'Leary visiting MAN today? :oh:

[learjet50]

re MOL in Manchester today

It was the Fire not the Arxxhole alarm went off

[DomyDom]

Do we really need to know that the fire alarm went off at 11.30 on a certain day? Sorry guys/ girls but please can we keep things aviation/ airline/ route related? If there is no news then do we have to post trivia like this (not that fire alerts are trivia but surely context is relevant here)? Just something to think about but if we can focus on discussion/news regarding airlines, routes, (interesting) news etc. I think the site would be better. Thanks DomyDom

[johnnychips]

In summer, the evening Cityjet Antwerp flights seem to have ceased with competition from Ryanair at 1935 to Charleroi. Bit of a difference in equipment and service, and a bit of a bugger if you want the north of Belgium. Arrival is about the same in Brussels if you use the bus from Charleroi compared with the train from Antwerpen Berchem. The last plane to Zaventem from Manchester is at 1800.

[redED]

Do we really need to know that the fire alarm went off at 11.30 on a certain day? Sorry guys/ girls but please can we keep things aviation/ airline/ route related? If there is no news then do we have to post trivia like this (not that fire alerts are trivia but surely context is relevant here)? Just something to think about but if we can focus on discussion/news regarding airlines, routes, (interesting) news etc. I think the site would be better. Thanks DomyDom

Oooooh sorry dad! :mad:

[Nomoresteerage]

The news yesterday that GlaxoSmithKline will expand their factory in Ulverston employing 500 more staff must be good news for the airport in the long run.

Pharamaceutical companies are known for their business class travel policies so hopefully it will allow for more growth in srvices (even if it is 2 years away yet).

NMS

[North West]

IBERIA to Increase Manchester Service in S12 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2012/03/22/ib-man-s12/)

How long has it been operating 4 x weekly? It only started last October and the launch frequency was daily . Not a massive surprise I suppose with 3 carriers on a route that has always been patchy

[chaps2011]

I believe loads are starting to pick up even with no advertising

Ian

[TURIN]

I have had it confirmed by a source close to the subject that the new tower will be officially named The NATS Cock.

[LN-KGL]

Turin, do you drive an Audi S4 or a BMW M3?

[TURIN]

Neither,

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/geebee142/220px-Troll_1956.jpg




Troll Plastik & Bilindustri of Lunde, Norway, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(automobile)) :E:E

[BTNH]

Is there any news what will happen to concorde´s cracked windshield??

[rampman]

it will stay cracked :E:E:E:E

[Ms Spurtle]

it'll be repaired just prior to it's next flight

[750XL]

BBC News - Manchester Airport tower built in nine days (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17538128)

Time lapse of new tower being built, very cool

[jamesferns]

Anyone know if MON are flying to SFB from MAN this summer, heard a rumour they are

[spannersatcx]

have a look on their website, that will tell you.

[partyboy_uk]

Anyone know if MON are flying to SFB from MAN this summer, heard a rumour they are

Yes, they are:

Wednesday

11/07/12 - 12/09/12
27/06/12 & 04/07/12 (via BFS)

Friday 30/03/12-26/10/12

Saturday 05/05/12-27/10/12

[jamesferns]

cheers :ok:

[daynehold]

BBC News - Manchester Airport tower built in nine days (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17538128)

Time lapse of new tower being built, very cool


Ooooh thats fantastic - its like watching a mushroom grow in slow motion like one of those David Attenborough wild life programmes. Seriously though an interesting clip.

[JackRalston]

As of 20:06, there has been a Chinook circling over my house in Withington. Does anybody know why it is out and about? I know there are probably chavs around the area but this is a bit extreme ;)

[JackRalston]

Worked on the PK711 transit at MAN today, managed to get everyone back to the gate and it seemed it was all ready to go at 1320 (15mins late). Dispatcher said it was all done and just final paper work getting completed. Then when at Staff West around 1545, I saw the aircraft still parked and had heard that there was issues with an engine or engines? Any information?

[AircraftOperations]

Heard a whisper from LTN that the 787 will visit MAN & LTN during the next few weeks on behalf of TUI.

[Shrimps]

As of 20:06, there has been a Chinook circling over my house in Withington. Does anybody know why it is out and about? I know there are probably chavs around the area but this is a bit extreme

Just a thought, but if they are taking someone to the MRI they land on Platt Fields park. It may have taken a while to segregate a space for it or it may have had to wait for an ambulance transfer to arrive.

[j636]

United are reducing the new MAN-IAD route to 5 weekly from 3 September. It is also showing as 5 weekly for winter season.

[fjencl]

I see that Small Planet Airlines are recruiting for B737 cabin
crew and senior cabin crew for Manchester,

Does anybody know if they are operating charter services out of MAN
for this summer on behalf of another airline.

????

[MKY661]

It would be nice if they did :) After all they are a Multinational airline.

[sam1993]

Small Planet will be operating Tuesday - Friday on behalf of Olympic Holidays this summer. Seems to be replacing the Tor Air flights from last summer. Schedule is currently as follows:

Tues: MAN - CHQ - MAN
Wed: MAN - KGS - LGW - KGS - MAN
Thurs: MAN - PVK - LGW - PVK - MAN
Fri: MAN - CFU - MAN

[fjencl]

Cheers for that information about Small planet Airlines.
:D:D:D

[j636]

March traffic up 13.28%

[jamesferns]

Any news on the air poo A340 story?

[take-off]

Thomas cook (vegas)

Hi am looking to book Vegas for early next spring(13), have been looking at Thomas Cook as they seem fairly competitive on price, how have loads been on last years flights, as they do only a once a week flight currently, but have noticed they are going to twice weekly next year, has anyone done this trip with them, or would i be better saving a bit more and going with virgin? Went to vegas last year with American to vegas via chicago, was ok, but connection was bit tight , looking at American is showing a long wait now at chicagoand not getting in to vegas till late at night.

[UFGBOY]

Nowt on their website regarding recruitment for MAN; only European bases...

[fjencl]

There recruitment was done on www.indeed.co.uk (http://www.indeed.co.uk) advert taken down now as closing date was today.

It had been advertised for the last 3 weeks or thereabouts for info.

[CabinCrewe]

I did MAN-LHR-LAS with BA at a very reasonable price and it as an excellent flight. Worth looking at. Absolutely packed flight but prices a little better now with the 747 on the route. Potentially going double daily next year too. BA Hols did a good hotel/flight package

[750XL]

Thomas cook (vegas)

Hi am looking to book Vegas for early next spring(13), have been looking at Thomas Cook as they seem fairly competitive on price, how have loads been on last years flights, as they do only a once a week flight currently, but have noticed they are going to twice weekly next year, has anyone done this trip with them, or would i be better saving a bit more and going with virgin? Went to vegas last year with American to vegas via chicago, was ok, but connection was bit tight , looking at American is showing a long wait now at chicagoand not getting in to vegas till late at night.

Don't expect anything more than your average charter flight, and you'll be lucky to get away on time if previous TCX delays are anything to go by :oh:

[take-off]

Thanks for replys guys(gals!), was just looking at tommy cook as an alternative direct from man, rather than doing a change in chicago with AA, while cabin crew was nice, plane left alot to be desired , especially the flight back via JFK, oddly it seemed the 737 we had from LAs to JFK seemed lot more spacious than the 757 fom JFK to MAN, seemed very cramped, going out didnt seem as bad MAN to ORD, anyway Happy Easter:ok:

[dwshimoda]

Anyone know why MAN has a NOTAM out about a fuel shortage asking operators to upload as much fuel as poss at origin? I thought there was a direct line from the refinery to MAN?

DW.

[AircraftOperations]

There was a recent issue with a component in the fuel line, which caused a similar NOTAM to be issued.
Maybe the same thing has happened again, and getting it fixed/replaced over a Holiday weekend is taking its time.

[goldeneye]

UA's IAD flight will reduce from Daily to 5 weekly between 20 Sept and 6 Jan, Then down to 4 weekly from 7 Jan through 10 March.

This is part of UA's Transatlantic reductions, See more here (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/146778/united-plans-winter-trans-atlantic-capacity-reduction/)

[Nomoresteerage]

BOEING has announced that it is to showcase its new 787 Dreamliner plane in Manchester later this month.

The US-based company has announced the sixth leg of a tour to show off the new plane, which includes stops at six cities - Manchester, London, Oslo, Taranto in Italy, Washington DC, Dallas and St Louis. The Dreamliner will visit Manchester Airport on April 23.

Larry Loftis, vice president and general manager of Boeing's 787 program, said: "The Dream Tour has provided us with a great platform to show customers, partners, government officials and other stakeholders just what the team has achieved with the 787."

Andrew Harrison, chief operating officer of Manchester Airports Group, said: "The Boeing 787 Dreamliner has been long awaited at this airport.

"It is an aircraft that is able to fly long distances with excellent fuel economy, so we are naturally delighted that Boeing has recognised the strategic importance that Manchester Airport will play in the roll-out of this special aircraft but we are also keen to show the scope it will provide to the wider region in the development of long haul services.

"I’m sure I won't be the only one watching it land for the first time on North West soil and it will receive a warm Manchester welcome."




News / Boeing to showcase Dreamliner in Manchester THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/northwest/news/309202-boeing-to-showcase-dreamliner-in-manchester.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=NorthWest_13th_Apr_2012_-_Daily_E-mail)

[Mr A Tis]

Looks like AA211 B752 MAN-JFK is returning to Manchester on some kind of emergency.

[eggc]

AAL211 got as far as Anglesey, and returned due to a medical emergency.

[sp3ctre]

Out of interest how do you find out these things? I see emergencies on flightradar all the time and often wonder what actually happened? Are these things made public at all or do we just rely on someone "having a mate in ATC"?

[Ringwayman]

new 2 weekly service to Tel Aviv has been announced by easyJet, starts 1st November.

[DomyDom]

easyflyer83,

Good news MAN-TLV. Do you know if there is anything else in the pipeline? Thanks, DomyDom

[roverman]

Good news indeed on TLV. Hopefully there is room for both EZY and Jet 2 on the route. Large Jewish community in Manchester and Leeds should benefit, although I know some still prefer to use LY for security.

[North West]

Well if not I guess jet2 have the opportunity to operate from Leeds instead (would seem the smart move if, as you say, some of the market is in Leeds anyway ?)

[CabinCrewe]

Cant see it sustaining Jet2 and EZY

[Espada III]

From personal experience, having flown Jet2 to TLV many times, I would prefer the EZY offering. They seem to have a slightly better understanding of general customer service and (going by the LTN-TLV route) a better understanding of their Jewish customers (who are just as varied and awkward as non-Jewish customers - if not more so).

Simple things like having kosher sandwiches available to buy, boarding with enough time to depart the airport on time and having modern planes that do not 'go tech' with regularity.

The timings of the flights will be interesting. The Jet2 leaves at 10:00 so arrives into Israel in time for the home time rush hour. EZY leaves LTN at 12:00 so arrives later with an easier journey from airport to hotel or apartment. Many passengers have frequently used holiday homes or children in Israel, so ease of travel once out of the airport is important to those who know their way around.

[Espada III]

EasyJet announces Tel Aviv-Manchester ro... JPost - International (http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=266408)

[take-off]

Hi anybody know what the problem was with today's American to Chicago , left 11 hours behind. Flight radar said it was a 763, but flight aware was showing a 757. Also flight aware have shown 2diversions this past week on this flight.

[TURIN]

Late from ORD. ARR 20:00.

[chaps2011]

Just to confirm yes it was a B763

[take-off]

I see today's Chicago is showing a delay too, only reason I mention is that I tend to check a flight a few times is because I recently flew on this flight and will be again shortly. Anyone know why It diverted couple of times last week? Sorry I guess I should have put this in spotters area, :O

[Mister Geezer]

Cant see it sustaining Jet2 and EZY

I used to commute weekly MAN-ZRH-MAN with Swiss back in 07/08 and Tel Aviv was always a very popular connection destination back, then from Manchester.

It seemed that the majority of the Jewish customers also pre ordered special meals, even if it was just a sandwich. Therefore, I can imagine that having no kosher catering on board would perhaps be frowned upon!!!

[FR-]

easyJet actually has a different menu for TLV flights, and Kosher food is provided, (with the stamps on them) also you tend to have more male crew on a TLV.

:ok:

[Mr.Bloggs]

And?....... What a silly thread

[easyflyer83]

Yep kosher BOB food is available on EZY TLV flights. (halal on certain other routes).
I haven't operated a TLV but from what I have heard, EZY are well thought of by the Jewish community on the LTN service. Totally hear say and anecdotal but apparently LY aren't particularly liked not least because they won't allow prayers to be made around the aircraft.

I'm not sure whether EZY will go out of their way to put more make crew onward but I think at least one will be on the crew. Those who aren't aware should note that orthodox Jewish culture doesn't always make onward service for female crew particularly easy.

As a side the recently suspended MAN-ZRH service had a lot of Jewish pax.

[Mr A Tis]

At long last the Boeing 787 Dreamliner is on its way from Heathrow to MAN.(via the Lake District)

[Suzeman]

From UK Airport News

22.04.12

Flybe has hailed the 'exceptional passenger response' to its new Manchester Airport hub. It became the first ever independent airline to create regional network hub in UK and has reported outstanding start-up performance with a 122% passenger increase.

Demand for connecting flights through its new regional travel hub at Manchester Airport has soared since Flybe started operations with the innovative concept for convenient connecting flights at the start of the 2012 summer season at the end of last month. To date, connecting bookings for April travel have more than doubled, with 'passengers keen to take advantage of the additional 86 convenient regional point-to-point connections and choice of 12 new flights created by Flybe having optimised its scheduling options through its Manchester base', the airline said.

For more information on this airport news story visit: Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archives (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1204/)

[Skipness One Echo]

Boeing 787 Dreamliner touches down in the UK for the first time | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2134114/Boeing-787-Dreamliner-touches-UK-time.html)

In other news, Farnborough is no longer in the UK and any sightings of anything looking like a B787 at the last show were clearly a figment of your deranged imagination. That is all.

Love the fact that Mr Walsh and Mr Ridgeway were seperated by Thomson's Chris Browne!

[MAN777]

Picture of 787 at MAN on TAS homepage

Home (http://www.tasmanchester.co.uk/Home.html)

[Espada III]

Prices are a little lower than JET2 on the dates released so far. A pity they are both flying on the same days though.

Edit -- mistook cancellation of EZY route MAN - ZRH for the Swiss route which is still going.

[Prestonian]

Which airline has suspended MAN - ZRH ?

[easyflyer83]

Easyjet has, mainly due to the 7th based aircraft being delayed. Eagle eyed ones amongst you will have noticed that whilst other axed routes (MAH & GOT- the latter being axed for performance) are not in the booking engine, ZRH still is. An indication perhaps that this will be back in the Winter.

[JackRalston]

Within the rather unreliable world of Wikipedia, the Manchester Airport page seems to suggest BMI are restarting the Chicago O'Hare route on 6th July 2012. No evidence to support this on the BMI booking pages, can anyone denounce this rumour now?

[Ringwayman]

given that BA is returning the A330s back to lessors with BD being integrated into them , as they are no longer part of Star Alliance but now within oneworld and acknowledging the unwillingness of BA to have stand-alone long-haul out of the regions, where is the need for them to "compete" with American especially when we have a AA-BA anti-trust immunity over the pond? All I can think of is that for whatever reason they may be codesharing with AA from day.

[Suzeman]

Interesting snippet from UK Airport News

A far cry form the Manchester Corporation days of yore!

29.04.12

Manchester Airports Group plans to raise about £1 billion by selling a 50 percent stake to fund a bid to buy Stansted Airport, the Sunday Times reports.

The group will choose a preferred bidder in the next month from Australia-based Industry Funds Management., Cheung Kong Holdings, and a joint venture between 3i Infrastructure and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority, the newspaper adds. The sale will be conditional on MAG making a successful bid for Stansted.

[OltonPete]

Manchester Airport : Traffic Statistics (http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manweb.nsf/Content/TrafficStatisticsArchive)

Just click on the link for April and the PDF should open - pax 1,472,253

A big hit on charter pax undoing a lot of good work on schedules.

Movements up but freight down

Pete

[Suzeman]

What about the impact of Easter?

In 2011 it was very late -24th April
In 2012 it was 8th April

The pre-Easter peak may well have been partially in March this year, whereas in 2011 it wasn't. Always best to look at March and April together in these circumstances.

But March 2012 isn't on the website for some reason so I can't do the sums :{

Suzeman

[Espada III]

Next year Easter is in March, so holidays may be reduced as it may be too cold.

[Suzeman]

Posted earlier in this thread.

March traffic up 13.28%

Assuming this figure is correct, March 2011 was 1.203 million in round terms, so March 2012 would be around 1.368 million

April 11 was 1.426 million and April 12 was 1.472 million

So March + April 2011 = 2.629 million
March + April 2012 = 2.840 million or an 8% increase - not bad going in my book :ok:

Next year Easter is in March, so holidays may be reduced as it may be too cold.

Easter Day is only just in March in 2013 (31st), so the outbound and inbound peaks will be split between March and April again next year.

Most people who wish to will have to go away at Easter due to school holidays, will have booked ahead and will go irrespective of the weather in UK. In addition "too cold" may mean more people looking for some sunshine at short notice if there is any spare capacity ...And wasn't it rather warm in UK in late March this year?

Suzeman

[Benjamino]

Anyone know if there's any truth in these?! I've not seen this announced anywhere else... wishful thinking maybe?

Manchester Airport Movements - Plane Mad (http://www.plane-mad.com/movements/manchester-airport/)

Some stuff on that page is definite, but the rest? :confused:

[Benjamino]

In fact, the Singapore one has to be a lie because their A345's are apparently all business class?

And isn't this the same website that said flyBE were starting at LHR?

Edit: just scrolled down that page and read: "Aero Lloyd DC-10 arrives for attention with air livery". Think someone's been trolling the page :=

[Betablockeruk]

Caution! This plane-mad site has a problem with a malicious poster constantly posting rubbish on the Movements page.

Best to look for confirmation from other sources.

[Benjamino]

Cheers for the heads up!

[Suzeman]

Another route development :ok:

easyJet announces another Manchester route | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1493460_easyjet-announces-another-manchester-route)

[Suzeman]

The MEN take on them

Forgot about the wedding bank holiday last year ......:p

Manchester Airport numbers rise again | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/business/s/1493211_manchester-airport-numbers-rise-again)

[MKY661]

Basel is easyJet's third Swiss destination from Manchester – it already serves Geneva and Zurich.

I thought they dropped Zurich?

[JackRalston]

Traffic really seems to have increased dramatically since this time last year. The queues at ZB check in are getting mighty long now and even stretch past the VS desks at time. Already had one instance where the queue in the morning for ZB went all the way down onto the Skylink :eek:

[chaps2011]

rumoured to be returning for winter

Ian

[ArtfulDodger]

Two men were arrested after making bomb threats on a flight from Manchester Airport yesterday.

Link here ..... Incident – Bomb threat on flight from Manchester: ME News « The Airport Informer (http://wp.me/p2jrV4-yO)

[I'm Off!]

Idiots. I hope they enjoy their stay in a Tenerife jail...

[easyflyer83]

Yep, still in the booking system but not tried to book recently to see if it's actually on sale. I thinki mentioned this earlier but basically ZRH was dropped because the 7th a/c earmarked for MAN went to NCE instead.

[dwlpl]

This is the message you get when you try

'The route you have selected is for sale until 29 Mar 2012.
Please check the 'Timetables' section of the site for full details of all easyJet routes.'

[ILS32]

They certainly will not be flying back home to Manchester.They will not be catching a bus either.You sometimes wonder what goes through their minds even with limited intelligence. They must have seen the news or read the papers about what happens to idiots like them who have done a similar thing.You just do not mention bombs whilst on board an aircraft.Deserve what ever sentence is handed down to them.

[Manchester Kurt]

CAA Confirm rise of 3.2% in April. (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201204/April_2012_Provisional_Airport_Statistics.pdf)

But look at Liverpool losing a whopping 20% of their passengers in the month. Wow.

[jamesferns]

Every cloud has a silver lining, 20 % less whining scousers travelling abroad has to be good thing in many ways:)

[MKY661]

Thats a big drop for LPL. Hope it gets back up quickly :)

Every cloud (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=7189434#) has a silver lining, 20 % less whining scousers travelling abroad has to be good thing in many wayshttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

Calm Down Calm Down