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MANCHESTER - 8

Old 26th Jul 2010, 11:40
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MANCHESTER - 8

Sure I saw someone start the new MAN thread but it seems to have disappeared...

Anyway, anyone heard of plans to use some of the aircraft Apron in the NW corner for car parking this summer?

If so, what is the reason and is this permanent or temporary?

Suzeman
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 12:08
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Heard there is a plan to relocate staff west to the apron either up in the corner or to the end of T2... Either way, i am certain that MAPLC will make a complete and utter bollocks of it!
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 12:28
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Its permanent.

Seems MAPLC needs more room to park cars and less to park planes.

The details can be found on the MAG website in the document library under airfield directives.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 14:07
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Re: Pier B discussion from Thread 7

Having just read some of the negative comments about Pier B, I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with them. As a regular user of T1 the Pier B experience is horrible, particularly on arrival. Actually for what is claimed to be one of Europe's leading airports and by far the biggest UK airport outside London, it's just embarrassing. To the first time visitor, god only knows what image it first portrays of Manchester and of England.

However, many of the negative comments were related to Passport Control. There is nothing MAPlc can do about the queues or staffing levels there or about the extent of checks and the time they take. Those that complain about this cannot be regular flyers otherwise they would have registered for Iris or increasingly will have got themselves a scannable passport that can be used at the e border. I'm lucky - I have both and trust me it takes me seconds to go through Passport Control in T1 with those two options at my disposal. In June on a Lufthansa flight, I timed touchdown on Runway 1 to parking on Stand 23 and out to the station concourse in 21 minutes - ok I was in Row 1, no bags and I'm a fast walker but that is an incredible result.
But this misses the point about the rest of the arrival experience, the whole place is depressing and drags you down. Where ever you've been, arriving at T1 MAN, it still feels down at heel - I won't use the words 'Third World' which many on here often do - it isn't - but certainly some of the less wealthy parts of Eastern Europe spring readily to mind.

With the arrival of the A380 and F class soon and them using Pier B, I find it quite incredible that Emirates have allowed it to happen. They already use T2 which is functional (despite all the clutter)and works well with large modern airliners because it was designed for them. Pier B was designed for Vickers Viscounts et al. I would, if I were to pay First Class fares, expect the whole experience to be much better than Pier B albeit with the future promise of a lick of emulsion and new carpet tiles. Stand 15 is also one heck of a trek from the lounges.
Demolition seems the only credible choice. The fact is: Pier B is disfunctional, anachronistic and not fit for purpose.

PS: Pier C is not a whole lot better btw
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 14:09
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Hi Suzeman,

Yes, I originally started a new MANCHESTER - 8 thread. However, I deleted it when I noticed that the software interface between my IMAC and the PPRuNe website had converted my capital letters to lower case. It all looked a bit naff so I got rid. I have noticed before that text inserted in the 'title' box converts itself to lower case; very frustrating!

SHED.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 15:10
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Pier B

Designed before the Government knee jerked and decided arriving international passengers were much to dangerous to come into contact with departing international passengers. Why is that? Doesn't seem to worry them one whit at AMS, GVA et al?

Can someone link to the reason?

Apparently this utterly threw the passenger flows at the then new North Terminal at LGW.... My laboured point being that older terminals where this is still an issue and predate the ruling, T1 International , all of T2 and one remaining pier T3 at LHR are the obvious ones I use, are being bulldozed slowly bit by bit and replaced. Glasgow's old international pier is of the same layout and age and is now reduced to handling easyJet and Loganair traffic.

Might it have been a better capital investment plan to refit the terminals rather than pour the concrete for that second runway? These investments have a rather long lead time, and any demolition and rebuild would mean moving the A380 ops to where? Has the arrival of the A380 perhaps delayed the necessary reuild
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 19:41
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Following on from the previously mentioned Icelandair incerase to 5 weekly from 14th September to the 26th October, they've revealed that they will be at 5 weekly from 12th April to 6th June.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 21:44
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Yes, I originally started a new MANCHESTER - 8 thread. However, I deleted it when I noticed that the software interface between my IMAC and the PPRuNe website had converted my capital letters to lower case.
Ah good Mr Shed - glad I wasn't imagining it - hadn't been to the pub by then! As you can see, it has done the same to my capital letters too, but then my standards are lower, so I pressed on!

Thanks Viscount for the link to the MAG website. Seems like the car park on the stands is at least longish term as the AD quotes "until further notice" and the change will eventually be incorporated in the Aerodrome Manual. Looks like it should be possible to reverse this though at reasonably short notice if needed.

The question is - if the stands are currently not needed for aircraft because there isn't demand and pax numbers are way down, where are all the cars coming from?

And I note that T2 pier served stands are being rearranged so that there are less MARS stands, although I guess there are a fair number of wide bodies on there now all through the day, so it practice it probably doen't make much difference to actual capacity.

Less stands is bad news though for all the potential diversions this winter

Skippy
Designed before the Government knee jerked and decided arriving international passengers were much to dangerous to come into contact with departing international passengers. Why is that?
The issue of segregation of inbound /outbound in the UK has been going on for 30 years now. The story I heard about LGW North was that the powers that be in BAA decided to plough on with their new development in the 1980s with mixing of passengers despite the UK DOT or whatever it was called at the time suggesting that this was not acceptable. DOT's argument was (and probably still is) that inbound passengers may not have been screened at their departure airport to the same high UK standards and there is therefore a possibility of some collusion between inbound and outbound pax transferring weapons or whatever. The end result should be that everyone in the restricted zone of the terminal is screened to UK standards, not the standard of some other countries.

Anyway, the end result of this BAA defiance at LGW North was they were forced to segregate at the gate by means of a perimeter corridor for inbounds with consequent delays to boarding or unloading as no boarding could take place when inbound pax were in the corridor and vv - rather like the south side of MAN's Pier C now.

Existing developments in the UK at the time were exempt and pressure from the airports not to spend money on this kept it that way until 9/11 although monitoring of the mixing areas was increased. After 9/11 MAN was obliged to segregate its old piers in a very short space of time as there was not enough space in the piers for segregated gate lounges with security and this resulted in the mish mash of routes you enjoy today!

I presume from your comments that there are still mixing areas at LHR - not been through there for so long now thank goodness so I don't know. I presume that security screening is done in a cordoned off gate lounge immediately before boarding in these areas and once through the screening there is no contact with inbound pax?

Incidentally, doesn't AMS do gate lounge security immediately before boarding after which there is no mixing? And at GVA when I was last there a few months ago the flows were certainly segregated on the piers.


Might it have been a better capital investment plan to refit the terminals rather than pour the concrete for that second runway?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.....In the 1990s slots at prime times at MAN were in short supply and a couple of airlines didn't start as they couldn't get anywhere near the times they wanted despite single runway capacity being declared at 50+ /hour in some hours. A runway was what was needed at the time and in those days a runway had longer lead times due to the planning process. And nobody else had built one for 20+years at the time (before that was EDI?) so it was a step in the dark for everyone.

The increased scheduling limits were used in peak hours as soon as the runway opened. Since then the world has changed dramatically but who could have predicted it then? The next stage of work after the runway opened was to move onto the terminals and expand them rather than refurbish. It didn't happen for obvious reasons and only recently did they finally start to get to grips with them.

With the lower throughput figures, the good news is that it is of course easier to refurb and alter an operational terminal. The bad news is that revenues are inevitablty down so how can you afford it? Oh to be an airport manager these days

Suzeman

EDIT: Title now sorted!
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 22:23
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Apron to Car Parks.

Apparently the car parking issue isn't capacity driven, but commercially driven, (from the top) as the the Stands that are being converted to car-parking will be for the " VALET " service. I hear that 10 a day per car has been mentioned. Drop your car off at the Valet reception, hand your keys over and off you go.
Your car will be parked on a tip top surface!!!
I suppose the maths are quite simple and if there's a sudden increase in the number of stands required then they can fairly quickly be brought back to service again.
However if you were a passenger who had just completed an Ocean crossing and arrived at Man a tad early due to favourable winds en-route, you'd be pretty hacked off if you had to sit around on the ground for 40 or 50 mins awaiting a stand (which happens all too regularly at the moment with no stand closures!)? Yes I know it's sometimes the Airlines that request the a/c to be held as they want to Gate it on an air bridged stand, but hells teeth, no stands because they are car-parks!
However this is not a new idea, as MA regularly take stands out of service to park snow clearing vehicles on them, or Fuel bowsers (Stand 64 & 65).
Why don't we go one better and make Runway 2 into the Valet parking area or even turn into a racing circuit as it appears to be damn all use for 80% of the time.
So lets hear it for the joined-up thinking team of MA ------ (silence!!)
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 08:19
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As for the car parks... I find it laughable that the apron is being converted for valet parking. Contrary to popular belief, Staff West is not free. The companies have to pay for their staff members to park there. But once again, MAPLC craps all over the staff by making us park in a car park that simply is not fit for purpose. There are potholes the size of the Grand Canyon all over the damned place... hell, my car has been damaged there... unnecessary speed bumps, not enough convenient parking and the whole area is very poorly lit. I will simply not allow my female members of staff to walk around there after dark. I take one of the ramp vehicles and give them a lift so at least I know that none of them have been robbed or raped. The Wythenshawe Massive do lurk about in there at night! Perhaps the PLC should consider the "new" parking areas for use by staff rather than SLF. We are the ones who have to park at this hell hole of an airport every day!

Just a thought.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 09:27
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Just a slight change to its schedule, the Emirates A380 on 1st september has been given an extended ground time for its first flight, presumably for promotional tours etc.

EK17 lands at 12:25, and EK18 usually departs at 14:10, but for 1st september, EK18 will depart at 15:20.

I think this recent schedule change puts to bed any rumours that the first A380 will be delayed by a week.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 15:07
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RE: EK A380, can't wait for her to come in. i'm pulling as many strings as possible to get a very very good view of the aircraft, and if they are now thinking of doing promotional tours 'inside', i think i'm gonna have to pull a few more strings............ lol
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 16:32
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36 a month for Staff West I believe, and some companies make staff pay for their own parking!

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Old 27th Jul 2010, 18:40
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EK A380

The extra 75 mins is for press & PR and the Emirates VIP's.

No 'unapproved' airport staff will be allowed near the aircraft. There is an airside bulletin shortly advising all airside staff to only view from designated points.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 18:54
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We couldn't have the 'great unwashed' airport staff sullying up the photo ops now could we. Typical of MAN's disdain for the staff that keep winning them bloody awards! Besides, most of the folks that I know that are gonna be dealing with this behemoth aren't exactly looking forward to the 'experience'.
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 05:52
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No 'unapproved' airport staff will be allowed near the aircraft. There is an airside bulletin shortly advising all airside staff to only view from designated points.
Who or what are unapproved staff I wonder!!
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 07:10
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Cool

I doubt whether the 'unapproved' staff give a $%^& it's an aeroplane not exactly something to get all excited about!
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 12:22
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A380 first visit

Hardly suprising, and completely understandable that there might be restricted access to the aircraft on 1st September. This almost certainly will be the first ever visit by the type to MAN, arriving on a scheduled service at a totally rebuilt stand with new facilities. All other A380 destination airports have had the benefit of an operational trial, ZRH had the aircraft there for 3 whole days at the insistence of the Swiss CAA. To give all those staff involved in the successful first turnaround a fighting chance of getting it back out on time, the last thing they need is throngs of sightseers. Simple as that. The A380 will be a daily event, plenty of opportunities to have a look around in due course.
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 15:30
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The A380 will be a daily event, plenty of opportunities to have a look around in due course.

Exactly. I know its exciting, but dont panic of no-one gets up close and personal on the its first flight, Its going to be at MAN every single day from 1st september. Its not a one off so Im sure everyone will get their chance to see.
Personally, Id rather non essential bystanders stay away and let the staff turn it around in the quickest possible time, and send it off with no delay. Lets show the world what MAN is made of and have a perfect turn around without having 'familiarisation days' and numerous tests.
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Old 28th Jul 2010, 19:13
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EK A380

BHX held a similar day when A6-EDE came in 12 months ago, it all went very smoothly.

I hope the Manchester event goes as well !

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